United Internet AG

XETRA:UTDI

Earnings Call Transcript 2020-Q1

[Dominic Grossman, Senior Investor Relations Manager]

Ladies and gentlemen, a very warm welcome from Montabaur. We hope that you are all well and healthy in these challenging times. Therefore, we are pleased that you are participating in our analyst investors webcast on the Q1 2020 figures. This is Dominic Grossman from Investor Relations. I'm here together with my colleagues, Frank Krause, our CFO; and Stephan Gramkow from IR. We would like to start directly with presentation. Therefore, we have prepared some slides, which we hope you have in front of you via the webcast or which you can download from our website in the Investor Relations section. After Frank's explanations, we will have a Q&A session, as usual. So that's all from my comments and turning the call to Frank. Please provide a walk through the numbers.

[Frank Krause]

Yes. Thanks, Dominic, and welcome to our Q1 results webcast. Let me start to give you an overview of our Q1 figures and an overall assessment of the business situation. We made further investments in new customer contracts. In total, the number of fee-based contracts due -- grew by a further 170,000 contracts to EUR 24.9 million. As mentioned on the year-end call, we added 100,000 contracts in Consumer Access and the remaining 70,000 comes from applications. Consolidated sales grew by 4.1%. The moderate growth in reported EBITDA was in particular due to negative effects in the Consumer Access segment. From regulatory decisions, which kicked in after Q1 2019 from increasing costs for 5G and the temporary change in customer behavior caused by corona. You can see the detailed list of effects on the bottom of the page. And adjusted for these effects, like-for-like EBITDA rose by 4.3% in line with revenue growth. The performance once again highlights the benefit of United Internet's business model based on subscriptions with fixed monthly payments and contractually fixed routes. That ensures stable and predictable revenues, cash flows and offers protections against times of crisis as we see now. Let me now walk you through our segments in more detail. And as usual, I will start with Consumer Access. On Page 4, you can see the development of customer contracts. As already mentioned, 100,000 contracts were added in the Consumer Access segment. Mobile Internet contracts grew by 110,000 and broadband connections slightly decreased by 10,000. Revenue grew overall by 4.3%, out of which the important part of service revenue grew by 3.7%, and the low-margin hardware revenue by 6.5%. We have also seen a positive revenue impact of EUR 3.1 million from temporary changes -- changed user behavior as a COVID-19 impact. Without that impact, revenue in Consumer Access would have grown by 3.9%. As described before, reported EBITDA in Consumer Access is down by EUR 4 million compared to Q1 2019, mainly due to regulatory changes in 2019 after Q1 in 2019, higher 5G cost and roughly EUR 5 million impact from COVID-19. Without these effects, comparable EBITDA like-for-like grew by 4.7%, and it is even stronger than revenue. Let's move on to Business Access. As explained already many times, there have been still services for consumer broadband customers acquired from 1&1 Drillisch in 2017. If we exclude these services in 2019 to come to a like-for-like comparison, revenues would have grown by 3.6% in B2B and wholesale, which is a key focus area of 1&1 Drillisch. The same story is also -- you can also see on EBITDA. So also excluding these services provided for consumer broadband customers, EBITDA grew by 4.1% and is in line with revenue growth. Now let's move on to applications and start with Business Applications. Fortunately, customer contracts grew by 60,000 just in Q1 2020. Last year, in total, we could add 90,000. Our customer base is still quite equal among domestic and abroad. We have seen a strong quarter on revenues in Business Applications with 7.6% year-over-year growth. It is fair to mention that the volatile and lower margin domain parking business of Sedo was very strong in Q1 2020, assuming that business is stable through Q1 2019, revenue growth would have been more or less in the same ballpark as we have seen it last year's around 5%. Now looking at EBITDA and Business Applications. Reported EBITDA in Q1 2020 is 4.3% higher than Q1 previous year. It is worthwhile to mention that marketing expenses in Q1 2020 and in Q1 2019 have been on a similar level. There was in Q1 2019, a negative IFRS 16 effect, which will turn around in Q2 2019, means Q1 2020 EBITDA growth is operational higher than reported and Q2 will be lower than reported. So we -- if you adjust for it, like-for-like, operational EBITDA growth in Q1 would have been around 8%. In Consumer Applications, 850,000 ad-financed free accounts could be added and 10,000 pay accounts were also added. Revenues in consumer applications grew by 3.9% year-over-year. Due to contractual changes, we are now reporting third-party marketing revenues on a net basis. Before they were shown on a gross basis. In 2019, you can see in record, the booked value based on gross disclosure reported EBITDA is up by 8.9%, and we have seen a similar phasing effect from IFRS 16 as in business applications, which will also turn around in Q2 2020. So operational EBITDA in the first quarter adjusted for that IFRS 16 impact would have been around 4% and is absolutely in line with revenue growth. On Page 16, you will find a summary of the key financial KPIs as of March 2020. As I do not want to repeat them, it is worthwhile to mention that CapEx is more or less on the same level as it has been in the last quarter 2019 -- in the first quarter 2019 and free cash flow is with nearly EUR 100 million, 22.5% higher than at the end of Q1 last year, which is very positive. So against the continuing backdrop of uncertain macroeconomic conditions due to the coronavirus crisis, we are upholding our outlook for the fiscal year 2020 and still expect revenue and EBITDA to be approximately on the same level as previous year. This forecast is still subject to uncertainty as an exact assessment of the duration and impact of the coronavirus crisis is currently not possible. In the coming weeks and months, we will continue to analyze the effects of the crisis on our business, and we plan to concretize the outlook in our half year report 2020. So thanks for your attention so far. And now, we are all happy to take your questions.

[Dominic Grossman, Senior Investor Relations Manager]

Frank, many thanks for explanation. Now we would like to start with the Q&A session. The first question, please.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] And the first question today comes from Christian Fangmann of HSBC.

[Christian Fangmann, Analyst of Telecoms]

I have a couple. First one is on B2B Application business, IONOS. You had a very strong commercial trend in Q1, I guess, related to corona. Can you maybe explain that in a little bit more detail what you've seen in terms of demand and what's driving this? And is that going to continue from your perspective in Q2? Or is it more a positive one-off effect that you're seeing mainly impacting Q1? And then secondly, on your B2B access business, Versatel. I mean basically, we have seen no growth. Yes, we have a headwind from the legacy business, but can you explain what you're seeing also with respect to Q2 and the remainder of the year because I think originally, Versatel was expected to be a bit like a double-digit grower this year on revenue. So would be interested in your view on the COVID impact on Versatel in Q2 and the rest of the year? And the last point is on free cash flow. It looks like the EUR 100 million is basically all cash flow coming from Drillisch. So is there no cash flow from the rest of the businesses? And how do you expect free cash flow to develop in the rest of the year?

[Frank Krause]

Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Fangmann. So your first question on IONOS. As I mentioned, the strong revenue growth in the first quarter was also due to the low-margin parking business of Sedo, which was -- if you exclude that asset, the revenue growth would have been around 5%. And you said there has been some maybe this is underpinned by corona. The corona impact in the first quarter was very, very tiny here. And for the time being, also, we do not expect too much impact from corona. And I see what we need to look at and what we carefully also look at is if what we see on default of payments, of course, as you know, the key target group is small, medium enterprises in our Business Applications segment, and they might be impacted. For the time being, we do not see too much problems there, but that is what we are looking at. And other than that, it was a very, very, very positive and successful first quarter for business applications. In Versatel, you are right, 3.6% and we also expected a little bit higher, but the reason is that there have been also very tiny, tiny regulatory impacts. So if you take that out, it should be more about 5%. And we still expect that to grow from quarter-to-quarter. And here also, we need to look at what it means or what impact COVID will have, but -- and what would be -- what we see for the time being is that some of the bigger projects will be delayed because bigger customers are not in the office, and so they delay some projects. And also we need some regulatory approvals. If we dig somewhere, and we also see some delays there. Of course, they are also working on a reduced mode, but other than that, it should not impact too much our figures. And free cash flow, as you know, that depends on many, many topics. Yes, you're right. Q1 is mainly supported by the Drillisch cash flow. And -- but it depends a little bit on, okay, when is CapEx coming. There's a phasing in Capex, and we've seen some more CapEx in the first quarter than we have seen in last year's first quarter. It depends also on when do we buy our handsets, and that was also a little bit more volatile or different to last year. So nothing different and everything as expected. And we're absolutely in the ballpark, what we expect. Our business is a strong free cash flow business.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Wolfgang Specht of Bankhaus Lampe.

[Wolfgang Specht, Analyst]

Yes. Once again, on the business application part of your business where we saw a really amazing uptick in customer additions. Can you give us an idea of what you changed in marketing approach or market approach generally to drive that growth? And are all these customers that came in also on long-term contracts? Or do you give some goodies here that may lead to a higher churn in the months to come?

[Frank Krause]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Specht. In Business Applications, as I said, we have seen 60,000 additions in the first quarter, and that is much more than we have seen in any quarter last year. And I would say that these are now the first results after become more and more to an end of our rebranding exercise. And I think that is really good. And we see that also, not just in Germany, we see that in other countries. So hopefully, not too much impacted by corona. We also expect that for the next quarters. And your second question was, if these customers were also on long-term contracts, and yes, that is the case.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Ulrich Rathe of Jefferies

[Ulrich Rathe, Senior European Telecommunications Analyst]

I have 3 questions, please. One, just a short of clarification. The first one is Drillisch said on their call that part of the activity in the preparation for the planned 5G rollout is the Versatel fiber rollout in preparation of their mobile network rollout. Could you give us some indication what the CapEx budget for that is in 2020? If it's not directly the CapEx budget for the mobile rollout, what is the overall CapEx budget for business applications in 2020? The second question is the -- you mentioned that you have a big international business, and some of it is in potentially worse affected countries than Germany. I mean, the virus impact, of course. Could you give us some sense how you think about that in terms of the macro-risk assessment? Is there a risk that in periphery countries you might get into a more difficult situation? And is that baked into the guidance and into the uncertainty that you have backed into the guidance? And the last one is just a clarification. When you count customers and business applications, you do not count with the main parking, is that correct?

[Frank Krause]

Okay. Mr. Rathe, thank you for all the questions. The first question was in regard of Versatel. And first of all, what I can say everything what is needed on the CapEx side is already included in our CapEx budget for this year, and we are doing some modernizations there in the network, and we are laying the ground a little bit also to use the Versatel network as our backbone network -- backbone network for 5G. So that is all in line and nothing new, I think. And then your second question in regard of the international business, maybe we talk a little bit about how we look at it and because your question was about how that is impacted or might be impacted by the coronavirus. I'm having every week on Monday morning, call with all segment CFOs, and then we walk through all of the segments, and look at what we see in a lot of detail. So we are also looking at all our countries. And you know, mainly we are operating internationally in business applications. And for the time being, we just see the very, very tiny impact. And the reason for that is, as you know, that is the strategy operation and business application is helping small medium enterprise in the digitalization process, and I would say that is now in the turbo boat. So that is the last thing people would cancel because they need it to run their business. And that is why we do not see also -- also internationally, we do not see too much impact. And your last topic, what you said is absolutely right, so we do not count in Sedo the parking topic as customers.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Joshua Mills of Exane.

[Joshua Andrew Mills, Research Analyst]

Just one from me. So I'd just be interested in your thoughts around the fiber builds across Germany and any opportunities for cooperation there. It's something you talked about in the past with regards to Deutsche Telekom, but we haven't heard as much about recently. And in that context, how are you thinking about your stake in Tele Columbus? Whether or not to take that company into United Internet Group and also whether you can extend your wholesale agreement in commercial relations with them?

[Frank Krause]

Yes. Thank you, Joshua. So overall, the fiber build-out in Germany, I think, you're right. I think that, that was for a lot of companies, I would say, now the second focus area. For a long time, everybody focused very much on 5G, and people were waiting and to see what is the final outcome or the remedies after the Vodafone and Unitymedia deals. You might have seen -- I'm pretty sure you have seen that also now Deutsche Glasfaser has been sold. And I'm pretty sure if you look at the price, they paid for it, that wholesale will play also an important part in it. So I'm pretty sure we will also hear from them soon. And I think all of that has to be taken into account. If you look at the fiber rollout and build in Germany, it will be also always a mix of cable, fiber, 5G, and as we are also operating an open-access platform. And you know, we are already today operating with a lot of city carriers. So we will look, as always, at all options and have a look at it. And in regard of Tele Columbus, there's a new supervisory board in place, there is now a new CEO in place. And the first figures you also have seen on their quarterly announcements. I think it is going in the right direction. And the new CEO is now working on his view, on his strategy or update on the strategy, and then he will discuss it also with the Supervisory Board, and then we will all hear more about it.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Jakob Bluestone of Credit Suisse.

[Jakob Bluestone, Research Analyst]

I just have 2 questions. Firstly, on the business application side. Can you maybe comment a little bit on the competitive outlook, specifically for Germany. I think there was some commentary from GoDaddy at their Investor Day last month that they were sort of considering expanding more in Germany. So curious to hear what your thoughts were around that and more broadly, competition in the hosting segment in Germany? And then secondly, just a point of clarification. I think you mentioned some regulatory drag at Versatel. Can you maybe just expand on what that was? Was that linked to the delays in getting regulatory approvals for digging or is that something else?

[Frank Krause]

So maybe I was not clear with that what I meant with the regulatory impact. That was just -- as we also have seen on the Consumer Access side, there was an increase in fixed termination fees and that costs a little bit also that the revenue was lower, but that should be not the case going forward because then it is on a like-for-like basis. And then in Business Applications, your question was, how do we see the competition overall in Germany? It hasn't changed. I would say it is still very rational, and what we have seen in Q1 is we have seen also Germany very strong. Also on the Strato side, Strato was also contributing very good to the revenue growth. So I think the rebranding is now paying off, and also comes through a positive turnaround.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Georgios Ierodiaconou of Citi.

[Georgios Ierodiaconou, Director]

They are on fiber and a bit of follow-up on your previous answer. Firstly, around the Deutsche Glasfaser comments that you made. And obviously, there are many [ prego ] members that have wholesale-only models in mind. Is it possible to give us any idea whether you are looking to be the cotenant for some of these projects and whether you are in negotiations in some of these areas in order to reach that agreements? And then on the other side, I believe it was somewhere last year when you were in negotiations with Deutsche Telekom for a 5 million household FTTH project, which in the end, you didn't manage to reach this agreement. Is it possible to give us an indication whether you are still looking for direct co-investment opportunities? Whether you believe you have the balance sheet for that? And is there any negotiations that you are currently engaging in?

[Frank Krause]

First of all, your question in regard of Deutsche Glasfaser, first of all, the deal has not been finally approved, but it will -- but it is not finally approved and I'm pretty sure they cannot talk to anyone about wholesale before that. But what I hear from bankers who looked at it and who might have been part of that deal, I'm pretty sure, and I can also assume that wholesale plays an important role. And as always, here in United Internet, we are looking for all optionalities. So I'm pretty sure we will also listen what is going on there. And yes, we always said, okay, we are willing. In regard to your second question, fiber -- doing a fiber rollout together with Deutsche Telekom. Yes, we are still open to it and looking at it, but for the time being, I think everybody is focusing on other areas, yes, but that is not off the table.

[Georgios Ierodiaconou, Director]

And can I ask a followup? You mentioned Deutsche Glasfaser. Are there any other parties you are currently finalizing agreements to be your cotenant from some of the other local fiber builders?

[Frank Krause]

There are plenty of offers. You know, for example, we have already an agreement with M-net, with NetCologne, with wilhelm.tel in Hamburg, that is what I meant with open access. So we are able to do that. And whenever it makes sense for us, we are doing these deals, and that is why I'm open, and I'm pretty sure we will also listen to what they might offer.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Martin Jungfleisch of Kepler Cheuvreux.

[Martin Jungfleisch, Junior Equity Research Analyst]

Yes. I have two, please. The first one is on Consumer Applications. Should we expect the same trend here for Q2 for revenues and EBITDA? Would you expect any slowdown due to less advertising due to COVID-19 here? And the second question is on B2B applications. How should we think about the margin development over the next quarters. I mean margins have trended down there over the last quarters due to investments in rebranding and also some mix effects. Would you expect these to have leveled off and would not expect at least stable margins year-over-year? And maybe you can also provide some color on the expected ARPU development going forward if you do feel that there is some room for ARPU improvement or upselling that may eventually lift margins?

[Frank Krause]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Jungfleisch. The first was Consumer Applications and revenue outlook. Yes, you're right. Q2 might be impacted or will be impacted by the corona crisis. And of course, as you can expect, we also have an advertising business here. And you see a lot of business segments, which are heavily impacted by corona, so transport, tourism, automotive, which are not doing at all now advertisings. And the advertising business overall is quite volatile, but I also have to say there are other segments, which are now doing more than they did before. That is e-commerce, that is food delivery, that is banking. And I'm not saying that it is offsetting each other, and it is very volatile, and on short time notice, but there's not just -- so there is also some light, not just dark. And we expect an impact there in Q2, but also not too big. And in IONOS, your question was about EBITDA margins, and EBITDA margin now in Q2 -- Q1 2020 was around 30%, 32%. And that is, as I said, impacted also by that there have been a low-margin increase in the low-margin business from parking, mobile parking at Sedo. So -- and it depends also always on a little bit seasonality in marketing spendings. So overall, I would say, we expect the EBITDA margin should be, on average, around 34%, 35% that is what we expect. And I think that is a really, really good ballpark and where I feel very comfortable with.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Nizla Naizer of Deutsche Bank.

[Fathima-Nizla Naizer]

I have a couple of questions. The first is related to business applications. The positive effect of Sedo in Q1. Why is there a sudden surge in this particular quarter, and is that something that we would see in the upcoming quarters as well? And also, you mentioned that there was a nice uptick from add-ons or upselling to customers, what sort of add-ons are your customers currently taking in IONOS?. And I guess, related to the marketing question, would marketing be just as high in Q2 given this seems to be a moment to sort of reach out to the SMEs more rather than less as they all look for ways to get online? My second question is related to, I guess, the liquidity position. Are you satisfied with where your leverage is at the moment. Could you remind us again about your leverage target? And a question around why you suspended the share buyback that you just launched on 1st of April and then suspended on the 30th. Just some color around the thinking there would be great. The final question is on CapEx. How much should we sort of expect for 2020 as a whole? And could you just remind us again what that is being spent on?

[Frank Krause]

Okay. Nizla, thank you very much. So first of all, this mobile parking business is a quite volatile business. That is -- I would be happy if you also see that in the next quarters, and it is going on. But as I know from the past, it is quite volatile, and it is also quite hard to forecast. And that is also why we thought we need to explain that, that you are aware of that part of the revenue growth we have seen in Q1, which was very strong with 7.6% is coming from that business. So -- and yes, we are also -- upselling customers was the second part of the question regarding IONOS and that is working quite well. Also, I think, as a result of the rebranding the request after cloud solutions we see is really going up, yes. So everybody is now asking for cloud solutions and that is really good. So in that area, we see strong growth, which is good. Then you had a question in regards to our leverage level. And if we do feel comfortable with it. Yes, absolutely, yes. So our current leverage is around 1.3, and even a little bit lower. And as you know, we have a strong cash flow generation. And that is what we always said. So we will be able to manage most of our CapEx, also in the coming years from our operational cash flow. So if you can keep it on that level or even a little bit higher margin, it is one of the lowest in the industry. So that would be really good. And CapEx, as you know, that is -- some of that is coming from Versatel. And as you have seen, first quarter was for EUR 50 million CapEx. And the first quarter is always, always very low. Of course, there is a seasonality. And in winter, sometimes they're less than on the Versatel side. So I would say it will be at the end, something, again, between EUR 250 million or a little bit higher.

[Fathima-Nizla Naizer]

Great. And if you could comment on the share buyback, that would be great.

[Frank Krause]

Your last question was in regard to the share buyback program and why we now suspended it. I would say, we simply have taken them end of April. Compensate, okay, let's take a cautious position now in regard of the coronavirus crisis. Of course, as nobody knows really how long it will go on and that's why we said, okay, let's stop it now. As we anyhow have to stop a few days before the annual meeting and that is the reason why we did it.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Steve Malcolm of Redburn.

[Stephen Paul Malcolm, Research Analyst]

Yes. A couple of questions. Just on government support, 1&1 Drillisch, on their call, said, they decided not to take any furlough payments or emergency state funding. I assume that United is in the same boat. And if it is, can you just sort of --

[Frank Krause]

Sorry, Steve [indiscernible] to understand you.

[Stephen Paul Malcolm, Research Analyst]

[indiscernible], hang on. Is that better?

[Frank Krause]

Yes, that's better.

[Stephen Paul Malcolm, Research Analyst]

Yes, hi. Sorry, I just wanted to -- a couple of questions. One on the Drillisch call. They said that they decided not to take any government support in the way of furlough or emergency state loans. Assuming United is in the same position, can you just outline your thinking as to what state -- what support you might have qualified for? Why you decided not to take it? That would be very helpful. And then just coming back to 5G, there were a lot of questions on national roaming on the Drillisch call. Understandably, these are sensitive discussions but when I look at the consensus of free cash flow in your business and Drillisch, I mean, by 2022, the gap is, people are expecting anywhere between minus EUR 200 million and plus EUR 500 million of free cash flow. Is that a position you're comfortable with? And could you give us any sense of when you as a Board would like to resolve this situation and move forward because it must consume quite a lot of management time trying to figure out the best way forward. And certainly, for the investment community, it's quite hard to handicap the business on a 1- to 2-year view where we have almost no visibility around your 5G investment plans.

[Frank Krause]

Thank you. So your first question was on -- regarding the comment Markus Huhn in the Drillisch call did that we haven't taken so far any support by the government in light of corona. That is right. And the reason is we also have no employees in short-time work. And as you have seen in our announcement, the impact of corona also in the first quarter was mainly in Consumer Access, with just roughly EUR 5 million, was not too big. And for that reason, I think if you have such a resilient business model as we have, I think it is not needed, and we have very stable cash flow and liquidity stream. And in regards to your question on what will be the free cash flow in 2022? To be honest, I think there is nothing we can answer before we know. We really know how the national roaming agreement and also any further agreement with one of the MNOs will look like because that data mines at the end is what you have to build by yourself. And that is why we also haven't given so far any CapEx figures looking forward. You know we said the next step is we need to agree on national roaming or on further combination agreements and then we will finalize who is the supplier, and how will the model look like. Also with our network supply, there are also different models. One of them are offering more something which is a little bit similar to what we have already in our wholesale agreement cost. So it is build, run and maintain contracts, so where you have to pay constantly something, but you do not have to pay too much as an upfront CapEx. Others are asking for that. And all of that is then defining how the cash flow will look like. So I think we need to do it step-by-step, and then we can also come to that point.

[Stephen Paul Malcolm, Research Analyst]

If I could just follow-up. I mean, my question wasn't so much on the free cash flow guidance in 2022. I was just explaining the wide variation in that number. I'm trying to understand when you as a Board have -- if there's any deadline that you have for communicating or deciding what the nature of the price you build will look like because that really reflects the confusion, I think, in the investment community, that wide variation. I'm not asking for guidance to understand when you...

[Frank Krause]

I can totally understand that. And I think we have to do that after we know all the parameters to which will then define this business case. So how the national roaming agreement looks like. What do we have to build by ourselves. And what is the -- in which way we are building it? Are we sharing something or not, but overall, I think it is still the case, as we said before, as we are a strong cash flow generator, and it is mainly coming also from the Drillisch side. So the idea is still that we can do most of it out of our own cash flow.

[Stephen Paul Malcolm, Research Analyst]

Okay. But is it fair to say you don't feel any real-time pressure at the moment?

[Frank Krause]

Sorry, say again.

[Stephen Paul Malcolm, Research Analyst]

You don't feel any time pressure at the moment. You don't feel that you need to -- there's a deadline at the end of this year, or it might be next that you have to start communicating. Do you feel that pressure on that front?

[Frank Krause]

No, we do not -- we want to come to an end, obviously, but we do not feel any pressure. And I think you should never negotiate under pressure.

[Stephen Paul Malcolm, Research Analyst]

I quite agree.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Polo Tang of UBS.

[Polo Tang, MD & Head of Telecom Research]

I have 2 questions. The first one is really just coming back to the strong subscriber growth in business applications because I'm just trying to get more clarity on this. So is it just the benefits of the IONOS rebranding or could business applications actually be a beneficiary of COVID-19 as more businesses move online? And can you give any color in terms of which region the strong subscriber growth in Business Applications came from? Was it Germany? Or was it some other region? And my second question really just relates to Drillisch. Can you confirm what your current stake is in Drillisch? And would you see any benefits in terms of buying out the minorities?

[Frank Krause]

Yes, thank you very much. First question, customer growth in business applications. To give a little bit more color, and it is coming all over the place, yes, but as I said, Germany was also very strong. IONOS, but also was sharp. So they are contributing. And it is also fair to say that we also see a positive impact even if it just started in March on churn. So I think in these crisis days, I think people are not changing their providers. So that is also a positive impact. And I think the brand simply gets to know much better and that is really good. Your second question in regard of the 1&1 Drillisch minority. I think we are always talking about that in these calls. So you know that in our business combination agreement, we are not allowed to do that. And also to be very fair, we have already more than 75%. So nothing is hindering us really in steering the business and looking at it. So I would say that is not our key focus area now to focus on how to buy out minorities. I think we should focus now much more on our operational tasks. I think we have a lot of them on the table.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Ben Rickett of New Street Research.

[Ben Rickett, Communication Services Associate]

I just had a quick clarification on the rollout obligations. In the presentation, you're saying 25% of households by 2025 and 50% by 2030. I think in the original auction rules, it is 25% of households by 2023 and 50% by 2025. So I was just wondering if those obligations have changed?

[Frank Krause]

No, it hasn't changed. It was always 25% of households by 2025 for us and 50% by 2030. And for the others, for -- it is already 50% by 2025.

[Operator]

Your final question comes from Usman Ghazi of Berenberg.

[Usman Ghazi, Analyst]

I've got 2 questions, please. The first question was just on Versatel. Given these assets, they are currently yielding around 2x invested capital in various infrastructure transactions. I'm talking about fiber assets specifically. Would you mind telling us how much capital currently has been invested at the Versatel level, just as we can get a better idea of the potential value of this part of the business? The second question was just around potential for new market expansion or M&A in business applications. I know that for the last few years, you have spent a lot of time focusing on creating upsell opportunities within the base. But now that, that is -- that process is pretty much done, is this a time to now expand more aggressively into new markets or to M&A, especially given asset prices are probably cheaper now through this crisis?

[Frank Krause]

The first question, Usman, Versatel. You know each and every year, we are spending there. In the last year, we are spending there, let's say, EUR 150 million something around that, plus what we invested when we bought the stake, and we can also talk offline maybe a little bit more about it if you want to have more details about that. And in regard of M&A, we are always looking at opportunities, but I also have been very clear in the past saying that I think in business applications, our IPO vehicle is in a good shape. So we are not missing any countries or we are not missing any part. So it is more about, okay, is it something which fits and which helps us a little bit to complete the picture. So if there is something coming up, we are looking at that. But I think that is not the main route now I'm looking at.

[Operator]

We have no further questions on the phone, so I'll hand it back over to you, Dominic.

[Dominic Grossman, Senior Investor Relations Manager]

So thank you all for your participation. If you have any further questions, please feel happy to contact Stephan or myself for further information. We wish you a nice day. Stay well and healthy. Bye Bye.