Takkt AG

XETRA:TTK

Earnings Call Transcript 2021-Q1

[Operator]

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the earnings call for the first quarter results 2021 of TAKKT AG, hosted by CEO, Felix Zimmermann; and CFO, Claude Tomaszewski. [Operator Instructions] Let me now turn the floor over to your host, Felix Zimmermann.

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

Yes. Good afternoon also from our side, and welcome to our earnings call. We'll start into the year 2021. Q1 was actually a good one because it was in line with our expectations and we have been able to continue the development we have seen at the end of 2020. And I think that is good news. Beside that, I think it's worth noting that we have seen within the first quarter kind of, yes, interesting development. While the sales development in January and February have been as expected, still negative, we have seen in March a low double-digit organic sales growth. That is clearly indicating that the recovery is starting and that we are expecting and looking forward to the upcoming months. But it's also important to note that we have seen between the order intake and the sales development again. That is not unusual in those situations where we are seeing a strong recovery because the supply chain is somehow a little bit under stress. So therefore, we believe that the nice and good order intake growth we are seeing right now will turn into sales with the kind of a time lag. But nevertheless, the order intake is going in the right direction, and we have seen really nice growth not only in March, but also in April so far. The development of the different business units within TAKKT has been as expected, a little bit different, depending on the impact of the pandemic on the relevant markets. But again, nothing happened in the first quarter, which has been a negative surprise for us. Overall, the start into the year was a good one. And with that, I would like to hand over to Claude, our CFO, who will give you more insights and background about the financials we have published this morning. And later on, I will give you an update on the outlook for the full year 2021. And then as already announced, we are more than happy to answer the questions you might have. With that, please, Claude, the floor is yours.

[Claude Tomaszewski, CFO & Member of Management Board]

Yes. Thank you, Felix. Good afternoon, everybody. I would love to give you a few more details on the figures we've published this morning. Let's start with the first quarter 2021 for the TAKKT Group. We can report here that we had a sales decrease of 6.5%. Half of that was due to negative currency impact. So if we look at the organic sales decline, we talk about 3.3%. Looking at working days, there was 1 less working day. There's also 1.5 percentage points that we can conclude here with the organic sales development. We have been quite close to previous year's figures. If you look at the previous year quarter, we had 10 weeks of pre-COVID in that and then 2 weeks of -- yes, have impacted by the COVID development. So that's just to get us all on the same page, how to then possibly interpret that figure. And also, Felix mentioned that there was a gap between order intake and sales development, which was partially due to a very, very tight supply chain at the moment, which has possibly to do with the recovery happening. But also due to the fact, of course, that's now in that COVID period, these things are possibly even tighter than they used to be in a normal recovery. Overall, if we look at the first quarter 2021, at the top line, on order intake, not sales but on order intake, which, as we said, a bit better than sales, we have been slightly below 2019, so almost approaching the figures from '19 and at the end of the quarter. And so that's a good, of course, sign for the months ahead. Looking at the profit. We have generated EUR 2 million more profit roughly on EBITDA. But to be fair, the first quarter 2020 had a one-off cost of EUR 7.6 million due to the implementation of TAKKT 4.0. So if we adjust for that, then the profit figure in the first quarter 2020 was more around EUR 32 million. So at the moment, we are EUR 5.5 million below that like-for-like figure in the first quarter 2020. Let's move on to -- looking into the 3 segments, to the omnichannel commerce. If you look at the top line, sales decreased by 3.1%. Here also, a quite huge impact from the negative currency effects. And so organic sales development was at minus 1%. If we consider even the working day -- the 1 less working day, I think it's fair to say that we have been on a very similar level, even a slightly better figure of working day adjusted on the top line compared to the first quarter 2020. ratioform came in with a double-digit growth, whereas KAISER+KRAFT and NBF have been slightly negative compared to 2020. So we are in a good shape here in the omnichannel commerce segment. Looking at profits, similar stories to the whole group. We even see an increase of, yes, EUR 5.5 million. But then like-for-like, here, the EUR 7.6 million one-off costs have been accounted for in the first quarter 2020. And so if you adjust that, we are roughly EUR 2 million behind the figure in 2020 when it comes to EBITDA. Let's move on to the next segment, to the web-focused commerce segment. You can see here a sales decrease of 8.8%, also some negative effects from currency, 3.2%, which then lead to an organic sales decline of 5.6%. And still here, as we have reported that now for a few quarters already, we see a strong difference in the 2 businesses in that segment, the Newport business here with a, yes, quite significant double-digit organic growth rate, whereas Displays2Go is suffering still the most in all our -- from all our business in the group. That's the one really which is still suffering a lot from the pandemic with a quite significant double-digit decline compared to the sales they have seen in the first quarter of 2020. And so that all -- especially also the decline in sales and the lower gross profit margin at Displays2Go, which is weighing on earnings very heavily, is then explaining why we are here EUR 3 million behind the first quarter 2020 when it comes to the EBITDA figure, which has then landed on a EUR 1.3 million profit in the first quarter of 2021. Let's move on to our third segment, foodservice -- newly formed foodservice equipment and supply segment, which is Central and the Hubert business being put here into one segment, a sales decrease of 16%. If we can adjust for the currency impact, we have seen a sales decline of 8.7%. And also here, we have seen 2 different developments. Central is almost approaching previous year's sales but on only very low single-digit decline, whereas Hubert had a, yes, quite significant double-digit organic decline in that quarter with their sales. I think it's fair to say, overall, if you look at our 7 business units, then Hubert and Displays2Go are the 2 which are still suffering, Displays2Go the most; whereas the other 5 business units are in good shape. And considering the development we have seen in the past and now looking to the future, we are very positive about -- overall about the group that we have that many businesses who are showing their sales development into the right direction. Profit-wise, that segment had a similar profit to the first quarter 2020, just a bit lower with EUR 2.4 million, missing EUR 300,000 compared to EUR 2.7 million the previous year quarter, so similar profit level for the segment, foodservice equipment and supplies. Let's move on to income earnings and sales to cash, cash flow. Cash flow is showing a very similar development to EBITDA. There's only slightly minor changes here from 1 quarter compared to the previous quarter. We pay a bit more current taxes. Our noncash expense has a bit -- has been a bit lower. And so the TAKKT cash flow has been increased by EUR 1 million, EUR 1.3 million exactly, leading to a figure of EUR 22.4 million, so very similar development to the previous year's quarter. Then this one, if we come to cash from operating activities on the cash generation chart, you can see here that we had a change in net working capital in the previous year quarter with minus EUR 11 million cash payout, and that was due at the time partially to -- mainly coming from inventories, EUR 9 million payout, and that was partially coming from also the adjustment of the product range at that time to the pandemic, which has not happened again this year. And so you can there we have here a cash inflow of EUR 1.6 million net change in net working capital, and that's leading to a very much increased cash from operating activities coming to a figure of EUR 24 million compared to EUR 11 million in the previous year period. We have spent a little bit less CapEx, EUR 3 million instead of EUR 3.9 million. And so that overall has led to a free TAKKT cash flow of EUR 21 million, which then, if we look at the next page, was mainly then also the driver to see our net financial liabilities going down from EUR 75 million to EUR 56.7 million. And at the same time, we can report that at the end of March, we had cash and short-term deposits in the TAKKT balance sheet of EUR 24 million. These have even increased a little bit now in April, and that cash and short-term deposits will then be used to pay out, of course -- also be used to pay out then the dividend in May, which we have proposed to the annual shareholders' meeting. Equity ratio, you can see here that it's -- yes, very similar level, a bit more than 65% at the moment, a very solid balance sheet leading to that equity ratio at the end of March. And before I hand back to Felix, let's have a quick look at the quarterly development in organic sales growth figures. And you could see here, as Felix has also mentioned, that quarter 4 2020 with a minus 3.6% was very similar to the first quarter '21 with a minus 3.3%. Also, the different segments had a very similar development in the speed. Now having said that, we need then also to consider that we had 2 quite weak weeks in March 2020. So overall, you could conclude the figures are a touch lower than its -- you've seen the speed at the end of 2020. And of course, one of the reasons is we have seen some lockdowns. Especially January and February were a bit weaker to what we have seen in November, December. But then on the other side, on the contrary, we have seen a very strong March going again into the opposite, which, of course, is very promising. And here, we have seen even, I could say, a slightly higher speed than we used to have shortly before. So a mixed picture from the first quarter with a bit of a slow start and then a strong finish in March has led to that figure again, showing here technically numerically a very similar speed to the fourth quarter 2020. Having said that, I'm happy to hand back to Felix to give us -- yes, just a bit of color, a bit of flavor to what we think at the moment on our forecast, on our guidance. And then afterwards, we are happy to take your questions. Thank you.

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

Claude, thank you very much. And yes, I'll give you an update on the outlook for 2021. Certainly at that point in time, not easy, but the main message is we are confirming what we have given you as a guidance for the full year 2021. And I think that is good news. The economic environment, we believe, will still certainly depend on the development of the pandemic. We have seen situations now around the world, like in India, where -- the unexpected way the virus certainly impacted the economy, the people in the country. But we are, right now, not seeing a direct negative impact of the pandemic on our businesses in the existing markets in Europe and in the U.S., but it's still certainly a risk. On the other hand, we are seeing that the indicators, which are important to us, are showing in the right direction, with the purchasing manager indicator as well as the indicator for the foodservice and equipment and supply industry as well as the indicator for the office furniture market in the U.S. Overall, there is a clear expectation for substantial recovery within the upcoming months, and I think that will be supported by the increase in vaccination in all target markets where we are active in. And we also believe that the U.S. will most likely show a faster recovery pace than Europe and, by the way, like they have done there also in the last 2 crises, so no surprise here as well. In terms of -- the strategic focus for the year 2021 will be unchanged, and we will continue to implement our strategic initiatives for more organic growth in our business units. So that is an ongoing exercise. And at the same time, we will continue to develop our segment structure within the tech group in OCC as well as WFC. And we will continue to develop in those segments the infrastructure and, let me say, the backbone for IT, for logistics as well as for data and analytics in order to, yes, create an opportunity for generating economies of scale as well as scope. So that is, somewhat in a nutshell, the message. We want to continue -- we'll continue to implement TAKKT 4.0, as we have described that in our annual report and as we have stated that in the past. Now looking into the, yes, year 2021. The full year 2021, we confirm that from today's perspective, we think we can achieve an organic sales growth between 7% and 12%. And at the same time, we confirm that we are expecting, for the full year, EBITDA between EUR 100 million and EUR 120 million. With that, I would like to give back to the operator opening the Q&A session. Thank you very much so far for your attention.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] And the first question comes from Craig Abbott, Kepler Cheuvreux.

[Craig Abbott, Head of Mid and Small Cap Research, Germany]

First of all, Herr Doktor Zimmermann, will this be our last call with you on -- I believe you'll be -- your successor will be joining after the AGM. Is that correct?

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

That is correct, Craig.

[Craig Abbott, Head of Mid and Small Cap Research, Germany]

Okay. Then I would like to use this opportunity to say thank you for all your support in all these calls and meetings those over the last years. And certainly wish you all the best in whatever your -- wherever your future leads you.

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

Thank you very much, Craig.

[Craig Abbott, Head of Mid and Small Cap Research, Germany]

Yes. Just 2 questions at this stage from my side. I -- you mentioned several times you're seeing tightness in the supply chain. And I believe you're concerned that TAKKT might not be able to fulfill orders on time and that some cancel -- clients might actually cancel orders and look for alternatives in other channels or other suppliers. And the second question is -- obviously, we're seeing significant chip shortages continue in the automotive industry, which is also causing quite a few delays in production time with certain models and so forth. And any risk there, short-term risk, that maybe in the -- amongst your industrial customers related to the automotive industry that you could see some orders for spec for a while over the next quarters? I think the peak of the shortage is expected to be in Q2.

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

Yes. Thank you very much, Craig, for your question here concerning the supply chain and the potential impact of the chip shortage here, especially for the automotive industry. So the stretch -- or the, let me say, stress actually in the supply chain is for everyone the same right now. So we are seeing that also competitors having the same challenges. And therefore, I think the likelihood that our customers are switching to other competitors and placing order there is somehow limited because there, they face the same situation. I think we're in a better position because we have a much higher inventory than other competitors in the market. So we are still able to deliver a major proportion of our products and our offerings, while others are pretty short in terms of inventory and rely on the drop shipment business. And that is leading certainly to even higher issues in fulfilling the orders. So I think here, you can see that the investment in inventory is also investment in customer service, and it's helping us right now. But we should not ignore the fact that the gap between order intake and sales is, yes, on a level, right, to be honest, not seen over the last 20 years. And therefore, we have put a lot of efforts in getting the products on board, getting the products in the warehouse, in the supply chain and finding also alternative suppliers. And there, we have a strong network, and I personally believe it's a question of time that we can close that gap. And I think we are good-positioned there. And as long as we have a good communication to our customers and managing the expectations, I think we can handle that. Besides that, we have also seen a lot of challenges around the transportation and transportation costs from Asia to Europe. That's also the same, I think, challenge for all of our competitors. There, we have to deal with those higher costs and have to find a way how we can hand that over also to our customers. So I think we have it under control. It's certainly a challenge but something we can deal with.

[Craig Abbott, Head of Mid and Small Cap Research, Germany]

Can I just ask you if there -- are there specific, like, broad-based categories that are, in particular -- there were times we hear electrical components. We know all about the chip-related shortages. But I mean, are there other categories on a broad scale that can be identified that are really suffering these impacts you have?

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

Yes. So it's a couple of reasons for the shortage. Let me first start with the lack of, yes, transportation capacity. So even if the products are available in China, we are suffering because it is more expensive, taking longer before they arrive here in Europe or in the U.S. So that is one point. The other point is shortage of raw materials and strong price increases there. There is -- for example, the office furniture industry in the U.S., really a challenge right now out there because wood at the raw material is very expensive and somehow, yes, limited. And that's leading to a situation where manufacturers are consolidating their activities on manufacturing, let me say, the core product categories of their assortment. And with that, they are not offering the complete product range, and that is leading to some challenges in our supply chain. But again, that's a matter of fact and that's the same for all of our supplier -- or all of our competitors. And last but not least, I think a couple of our suppliers have reduced their capacity during the pandemic and now need to speed up and to extend their capacity. And there, we've got signals that they're on a good way. So I think it will last a couple of weeks, maybe 3 months, and then we hope that, that supply chain issue will become less a challenge.

[Craig Abbott, Head of Mid and Small Cap Research, Germany]

Okay.

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

And so your question about the, yes, potential negative impact of the chip shortage, so far, to be honest, I haven't heard any indirect impact on our business, but we certainly follow the news because that is obviously developing into severe challenge and issue for the -- not only for the automotive industry but all industries here in Europe as well in the U.S. because, as we all know -- then a couple of factories closed, some burned down for whatever reason and that chip shortage could really lead to bottlenecks and challenges here and -- but so far, again, we haven't heard anything that is indirectly or directly impacting our business, not yet.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Catharina Claes, Berenberg.

[Catharina Claes, Analyst]

I was wondering, were there any further developments in your M&A activity? And also, what's the kind of latest on the food -- on the new food segment basically? Because I think you mentioned that you aim to potentially divest. Is there anything new happening in this regard?

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

Yes. Thank you very much for that question about M&A and the strategic, let me say -- or currencies and options for our foodservice equipment and supply division. Let me start with the first one, M&A activities. Nothing right now on the table where I would say that we could and would sign it within the next, whatever, couple of weeks or even months. But there is a good pipeline. There are good, I should say, talks and good opportunities out there, where we have been contracted, where we have also contracted companies, and I've asked them whether they would be ready to consider a potential sale. And I got the impression that the market is becoming a little bit more fluid. That is good. On the other hand, we have focused our M&A strategy, especially in the web-focused area where we have said we want to first make sure that an acquisition is supporting the development and the implementation of our web-focused, let me say, corporate backbone instead of diluting it by adding another technology and another, let me say, ERP system and so on and so on. So therefore, you can expect from us that we are focusing now more on opportunities so we can make a major step forward to develop our web-focused commerce segment. And that's also true for the omnichannel commerce segment where we're also looking at opportunities. The first priority right now is web-focused commerce would be given, let me say, acquisition criteria. Now talking about the foodservice equipment and supplies division. As you know, we have said that we are actually following 3 different strategic options. The first one was integrate Hubert and Central into the omnichannel segment. We have felt that it's not an option anymore. The second one is exploring opportunities to divest those 2 businesses. That's something we are still considering, but for the time being, we have said we should create a third division within TAKKT to make clear and ensure that Hubert and Central are not part of OCC, but they are creating their own division. And let's take it from there, and then we will see whether the other options -- the remaining option, exploring divestment opportunities, will become a valid one. We are not in a hurry. To be honest, both companies are, in total, I think, performing right now as expected. Even if the EBITDA is a little bit behind, that is, for me, a question of time. I'm pretty optimistic there for the upcoming back-to-school season. And what we are seeing there in terms of request for proposals is encouraging, while at the same time, Central is already seeing a very nice order intake growth and they are really participating from that recovery in the rest of the industry. So both companies are, I think, in a good shape. And therefore, we are not in a hurry, but we would stick to what we have said exploring the strategic options for Central and Hubert also within the year 2021, but we are not in a hurry. Does that answer your question?

[Catharina Claes, Analyst]

Yes. That's brilliant. And then just one more follow-up question to clarify on the gross margin and on the freight cost. I just wanted to check because you mentioned that it weighed on the -- yes, on the gross margin so you couldn't fully pass it on to your customers. I only understood from the other question that's more short term. So I just wanted to double-check now on how the dynamics are.

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

Claude, do you want to take that question?

[Claude Tomaszewski, CFO & Member of Management Board]

I can take it. It was a lot about whether we pass, I think, the price increases on to our customers or not. Now going forward, we have looked at the container cost increases, which we see there. We have a model to calculate how many more container costs we might have to digest in the year 2021. We've got a similar model where we have tried to understand that -- what is the impact from the raw material price increase. And based on that, we have looked at, in all business units, how we can pass on that cost to the customer. So at the moment, we've got a clear strategy that we want to pass that cost on to the customers, quite a considerable amount this year, because of these very severe container freight cost increases and also high, significant raw material price increases. We haven't seen them for a while that much, but clear strategy to pass these costs on to almost -- yes, to almost 0, so a net impact of almost 0, and that will be done through price increases and other mechanisms in order not to dilute our gross profit in absolute euros and dollars too much. So we have a target to pass it on, on absolute figures. So there might be a small impact on the percentage point on gross margin to pass that cost on. If we look at the first quarter 2021, we have a gross margin which is slightly lower than the first quarter 2020, and that is mainly due to freight costs here -- or lower freight margin, not due to any product margin dilution.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Thilo Kleibauer, Warburg Research.

[Thilo Kleibauer, Research Analyst]

I have also a question regarding the foodservice segment. Firstly, on the EBITDA in this segment, the sales line was significantly down but the EBITDA was, yes, pretty stable. So is there any special effect there in these numbers if we compare Q1 '20 with Q1 '21 for this segment? And secondly, Hubert is, yes, still pretty weak with a double-digit sales decline. So maybe you can give us an indication about current trading at Hubert and if you also expect that Hubert can contribute to your sales recovery in the coming months.

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

Look, let me start with answering your second question, and then Claude can take over and answer your first question. So Hubert is a different animal than Central. Hubert is providing products and services to the professional, let me say, catering industry and in the food retail industry. They have a pretty stable business with food retail while they are still suffering in that professional catering, let me say, business. The catering business is a business that is serving football stadiums, larger events, trade shows, things where people are eating and expecting a service from a catering company like Aramark, Sodexo or other smaller ones. And that business is still not really bad. That's the same for any kind of public places like schools or universities. Cafeterias and all that stuff is still being closed. And so therefore, the development is not really, let me say, unexpected. At the same time, we have to keep in mind and we should not forget that Hubert did benefit last year quite a bit from the corona crisis because they have the right products in their product portfolio. And therefore, they came through the month of March and April and May pretty strong. So their comp is pretty high. Now looking at the upcoming months -- and I have a constant conversation there with the management team, we have looked at the, yes, request for proposals and proposed and they are increasing quite nicely. So the fish is biting. That's what the Americans are saying. And we expect that in June, July and August, that is back-to-school season, the major season for U.S., we will see a significant improvement of the situation. And therefore, I have no worries about the future performance of Hubert. With that, I would like to hand back to Claude, who can talk a little bit about the first question.

[Claude Tomaszewski, CFO & Member of Management Board]

Yes. Thanks for the question. There is one effect that we can talk about. It's that in the first quarter 2020, Hubert was still running with a different labor force. They then, later on in the year 2020, had -- in summer, had some layoffs. So they have adjusted their workforce according to new volumes. And so if we compare now the first quarter 2021 to the first quarter 2020, then of course, there is some help here that they have become, say, leaner in their cost structure and that has, of course, also contributed then to this result. At the same time, there have been one of the other costs we have digested in the first quarter 2020, which we could avoid now in '21, and that was leading to that mechanism you -- with just this plan.

[Thilo Kleibauer, Research Analyst]

Dr. Zimmermann, for you -- all the best for you for the future. And so thank you also from my side.

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

Thank you very much.

[Operator]

At the moment, there seems to be no further questions. [Operator Instructions] And we have one more question coming up from Mark Josefson, Pareto Securities.

[Mark Josefson, Analyst]

I'd like to get a better understanding of your thinking in terms of stepping up the marketing spend. I think there was a slight decrease in the quarter just reported compared to last year. But it was in Q2 of last year where you took a notable reduction on the marketing spend. I guess if supply is a little bit tight, there's no great urgency to step that up. But I'd just like your thinking in terms of the marketing budget going forward, please.

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

So let me start with the -- our -- yes, sharing with you our thinking and how we discuss marketing spending. You're right, last year, in the second quarter, we have certainly cut immediately our marketing spending because there was no activity out there and it was not worth to spend the money. And we do certainly calculate the return for each and every marketing euro or dollars we do spend. What we are seeing right now is a very nice increase on those returns. So especially the online marketing experts are coming back and saying we can spend and we should spend more. And online is giving us the flexibility to promote the products we can deliver and to make sure that we are promoting, let me say, the right things and not create an additional, let me say, challenge for our supply chain. But it's fair to say right now, the returns are very nice, and we encourage our business units to invest because now the fish is biting and we need to be present out there. So therefore, we can expect an increase in marketing spending certainly versus the second quarter of last year, and I think it's well-invested money. Claude, do you want to give additional information to that?

[Claude Tomaszewski, CFO & Member of Management Board]

Well, I think you perfectly described it. So it is nothing major to add. Thank you.

[Mark Josefson, Analyst]

Okay. Again, I wish you well, Felix. Thanks very much for your help up until now.

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

Thank you.

[Operator]

And now we have no further questions from the audience.

[Felix A. Zimmermann, Chairman of the Management Board & CEO]

Okay. So then I would like to use the opportunity. And as has been mentioned already, this has been my last earnings call for TAKKT over the last 12 years as a CEO and almost 20 years in different roles, the CFO for TAKKT as well as for Celesio. I have enjoyed the communication with you. It was always a pleasure, and I must admit I enjoyed those discussions. We have had a lot because they have been always productive, transparent, open, fair and respectful. And for that, I would like to thank you. I think we have established a strong relationship, a trustful relationship between TAKKT and our financial community, and I'm pretty sure that my successor, Maria Zesch, together with Claude and his team will continue to, yes, keep that on that high level. I will leave TAKKT at the end of the shareholder meeting, as announced, in a couple of days, in 10 days, and Maria Zesch will take over on the 1st of August. We have organized the transition at time, I think in a very professional way, and I'm staying in touch with Maria on a very frequent basis right now. And we have started the onboarding already, and I'm pretty sure she will get in touch with you pretty soon after her start to the beginning of August. Till then, Claude and his team will certainly be always available and accessible for you. So whenever you have a question there, please approach them whenever you need additional information. Please keep your interest in TAKKT. It's a great company with a lot of potential, and we'd certainly benefit from the expected recovery in 2021 and beyond that. Again, thank you very much. I enjoyed it a lot. Saying now bye-bye, stay healthy, and I'm looking forward to see and meet you soon whenever the opportunity arises. Thank you very much. Take care. And again, stay healthy.