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PVA TePla AG
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Good afternoon. On behalf of Montega, welcome to the earnings call of the PVA TePla AG regarding the Q1 period of 2023. The CEO; Manfred Bender; and CFO, Jalin Ketter; and Dr. Gert Fisahn from Investor Relations, will give you a presentation on the results in a moment.
[Operator Instructions]
We are looking forward to the results, and I hand over to Mr. Bender.
Yes. Thank you. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the conference call following the announcement of our Q1 numbers earlier this morning. Here on our side, my colleague, Jalin Ketter, Dr. Fisahn, and myself are prepared to present the Q1 results for you and to answer your questions after that.
I would like to start with some comments on the highlights of the first quarter, before I hand over to Jalin. She will provide you with some more details and will give you an outlook for the near future.
When we met last time end of March to talk about the final numbers of the year 2022, we were proud and happy to present great numbers to you despite the difficult environment we had in that year.
Today, we are happy again that we can report about a continuing positive development in the first quarter of the current year. All key figures were improved compared to the previous year.
Order intake, revenues and earnings increased significantly. Order book is on a very high level and all business units and segments and subsidiaries contributed to this positive development. Furthermore, we can say that the integration of the new family member, the French company, MPA, is well on track.
Based on that, we are very confident to meet our goals for the full year with EUR 240 million to EUR 260 million sales and an EBITDA between EUR 36 million and EUR 40 million. The Q1 numbers are little bit more in detail.
Order intake increased by 0.5% to nearly EUR 62 million. Sales increased by 76% to EUR 58.5 million. And the order book is at a very high level of EUR 327 million. Last but not least, we were not only focused on growth, but also on profitability.
That means EBITDA is improved by 112%. It amounted to EUR 7.2 million in Q1 2023. To prepare the company for the further growth, we started to build a new production and logistic building with 1,600 square meter. Doing that, we are focused on sustainability.
The groundbreaking ceremony was in April, and the building will be completed in November that year. The total CapEx amount for this project will be EUR 5.5 million. For more details, I'll now hand over to Jalin Ketter to talk about the past in detail and the future outlook. Jalin, it's over to you.
Thank you, Manfred. Good afternoon also from my side. Let's have a little bit deeper look into the numbers and see what we achieved in Q1 2023. After that, I will give you an overview about the organizational changes we are heading to.
Let's start with the order intake, which was very strong developed in Q1 2023. We were slightly above prior year with EUR 61.7 million and also above Q4 2022. Having a look to the regional split, we see a very big portion in Europe and Germany, which is about 56% of the total order intake volume.
Also, Asia made a good development with [ 34% ] of the total volume. In terms of the segments, Semiconductor segment contributed about 81.7% and Industrial segment, about 18.3%. On the next slide, we see the development in sales. With a very strong growth, sales increased about 75.8% to EUR 58.5 million.
This is the development of one of the best quarters we ever had in the past. Industrial segments doubled in its volume and semiconductor system contributed about the half of Crystal Growing Systems and Metrology Systems equally.
The major drivers of the whole business, these are still digitalization, e-mobility and renewable energies, which are very important for our business also in the future. Coming to group profit. We achieved a gross profit about EUR 16.7 million in total in the first quarter with an EBIT margin about -- EBIT and gross margin about 28.6%, which is slightly down compared to prior year.
This is caused by higher cost of materials and the product mix we had in the first quarter 2023. In terms of EBITDA, we developed to EUR 7.2 million and an EBITDA margin of 12.3%. With that result, we are very confident to achieve our guidance with EUR 36 million to EUR 40 million in EBITDA for the total year 2023.
Having a look to the EBIT, we ended with EUR 5.5 million and an EBIT margin of 9.4%, with which we are very well on track to achieve our midterm guidance of about 15% in 2024. Let's look a little bit deeper into the segments. Semiconductor segment, which is about 80% of our total business volume, well developed as expected in the first quarter.
Sales increased about 67.3% to EUR 42 million, and EBIT margin ended at a level of about 14.3%, which is well on track with our guidance. Crystal Growing Systems were the most important drivers of this development.
Order intake amounted to EUR 50.4 million and is equally driven by Metrology and Crystal Growing Systems. Order backlog was EUR 228.3 million still on a high level and reaches already into 2025. The Industrial Systems, which is roughly about 20% of our business, also developed very well in terms of sales with an increase of about 101.9% to EUR 16.5 million. EBIT margin slightly decreased to 6% compared to prior year, which is caused because of higher cost of materials and the product mix in the first quarter.
We will see further development of that margin in the next months so that we will get on a normal level at the end of the year again. In terms of order intake, we see a little bit the lumpiness of our business. Order intake is slightly down to prior year and amounted to EUR 11.3 million.
We have a very good outlook when we see the discussions with our customers and the orders we are leading to. So we are quite confident to achieve our targets also in that area.
Order backlog developed to EUR 98.9 million and further increased. That gives us a good outlook into the future and will keep us busy in the next months and already in 2024. Before we come to our guidance, let's have a look to the recent developments. As planned, Andreas Mühe, our CTO, will leave the company end of June 2023 when his contract will expire.
Having a look to the past, we developed PVA TePla AG from an operational holding to a financial and management holding. We developed very strong directors on our GmbH levels who are also responsible for the technology and the technology development of the business.
We are very proud that we can close that development within the second half year of 2023 and move on with the further steps in the development of the business. There are no current plans to search for a new CTO. We thank Andreas Mühe, for the developments in the past, and wish him the very best for the future.
Digitalization and optimization are very important topics for us already now, and they will be for the future as well. That's why we will propose Dr. Myriam Jahn in our Annual Shareholder Meeting in June to the Supervisory Board. We are looking forward and welcome her to our team.
So let's come to the last slide, and let me confirm our guidance for the full year 2023. We plan to achieve a double-digit growth in terms of sales to an amount of EUR 240 million to EUR 260 million. In terms of EBITDA, we want to achieve EUR 36 million to EUR 40 million.
We are quite confident to achieve this guidance. Looking back to the numbers we already presented now in Q1, which were very strong. We are fully on track to achieve that guidance and quite confident for the future. So as that is our last call together, Manfred, I would like to thank you for the good time working together in the past, trustful cooperation always. And wish you very best for the future as well.
Thank you.
So that's all from my side now. So we are prepared to take your questions now.
Thank you very much, Mr. Bender and Ms. Ketter for the detailed presentation. We'll now move over to the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] And we already received the first question.
Please go ahead, Mr. Gustav Froberg.
Can you hear me okay?
Yes, we can hear you.
Perfect. Before I kick off, just thank you, Manfred as well and best of luck for the future.
On to questions. Firstly, on order intake, which I thought looked very strong in the quarter. Could you please quantify the amount of large orders that you saw in Q1 and also whether or not you think any of these orders that you received in the quarter were maybe pulled forward from Q2 or maybe Q3 later this year. That's my first question.
So order intake is very balanced in total. So we achieved EUR 61.7 million in total. EUR 11 million is based on industrial systems and the semiconductor area is well balanced between Metrology and Crystal Growing Systems. There are no single big orders in there. It's just the normal amount of business we always have.
Okay. Super. And could you talk a little bit more about your order pipeline, what you're hearing from customers at the moment maybe or in what areas where you still see some potential to generate some orders? And do you also expect to generate more large orders in the coming quarters? And if you do so, where are these orders coming from?
Yes, of course. So we have very good discussions with our customers at the moment and see a strong development based on the trends we are having all over and a very high demand in total. We have a little bit of lumpiness of our business that we know already from the past in terms of order intake.
So it's not total basically that we can say it's always the same amount in every quarter. It's sometimes higher, it's sometimes less. We see very strong demand in the industrial systems area in our discussions at the moment.
Maybe there will be some weaker months in terms of Metrology and Crystal Growing in the summertime, but that will not be something that will stay like that as the total demand is there, and it might just be a weak quarter we will see.
Okay. And just a quick follow-up on that before I ask my last one. In terms of maybe weakness in quarters, I know the business is very lumpy, but would you expect that to be more Q2 or Q3 weighted?
So that also depends on when we get the prepayments for that orders, that can be Q2 or Q3. I cannot totally say when exactly that will take place. So when we have a look on the all-over development, that will be all right for the full year and also for next years.
Okay. Great. And then final question is organizational. I mean, you mentioned that Dr. Mühe is leaving the business. You said that you have no plans to reinstate the new CTO. Could you tell us a little bit more about the organizational changes that you're making to the business, what it might look like in 1, 2 years from now? And also maybe who is in charge of technology and technology development within the organization?
That's already something we already didn't -- took in place. And so we started that reorganization already in 2015 when we started to get the operational business out of PVA TePla AG and transform that to single GmbH. So every business line is placed to a single company.
And within the last years, we developed very strong directors on that level. So they are responsible to develop their technology and do further investments in their business. They are supported by PVA TePla AG, by the Board then, and we are a good sparring partner for them to develop their business.
And we'll move forward with Constantin Hesse. Please unmute yourself, Mr. Hesse.
Sorry, can you hear me now?
Yes, I can hear you.
Great. For myself as well, Mr. Bender, all the best to you. And so my question would be, again, a little bit on order intake. So in the semiconductor segment, you -- I think you had some Crystal Growing orders coming in there. Is there any visibility on additional crystal growing orders coming in over the coming quarters?
And I think on Metrology, I'm fine, you already answered there's going to be some weakness in the coming couple of quarters. On that point, though, confident are you that metrology is going to come back to the trends that you were seeing over the last 3, 4 quarters?
And then in industrials, order intake again, you're saying there is very strong demand. But looking at the last 3, 4 quarters, that order level in Q1 was actually quite a bit below. So just wondering, are we going to see a solid pickup in the next 2, 3 quarters. So that's my first question.
So order intake in Metrology, I would say, can we expect it to be strong again very soon? At least if we see the new -- lots of CapEx spending, which are expected by all semiconductor players in Europe, in U.S. and so on, which are not yet reflected in our order book.
So we can expect order intake to come back in a strong manner very soon. So no concerns about Metrology business for the midterm. Industrial business is somewhat lumpy, the numbers developed quite -- very well currently. And we know that we have a nice project in the pipeline that means we are in connect with a number of customers for larger projects, larger orders, and also for that, we can be very optimistic.
Can I just ask what's driving in industrials that strong demand? What end markets?
So it's a whole bunch of infrastructure investments in terms of -- yes, change of energy and also -- it's also driven by the semiconductor sector in the second line or second level of the production. So they are producing systems where parts for semiconductor systems are created and yes. So that's driving both of the segments.
Okay. Understood. And then on the profitability side, it was relatively low in Q1. So what is actually going to be the key driver here over the coming quarters of higher margins? Is it only going to be the Siltronic order flow? Is it going to be higher utilization? Because looking at your book and assuming you already started delivering the Siltronic machines in Q1, 14% EBIT margin in the semiconductor segment sounded a little bit low.
So what can we expect here in Q2, Q3, Q4? Is it going to be more of a hockey stick? Or is it going to be more of a linear improvement, both in semi and in industrials in terms of the profitability?
So altogether, you can expect that we will end up at EUR 36 million to EUR 40 million in EBITDA. And yes, that will be a little -- like the development in the last years. Q1 is starting a little bit lower like the other quarters, and we will develop step-by-step in every quarter a little bit more. And...
So more linear then?
Yes. Yes, more linear, but also with a little bit -- not total linear. So there will be a stronger quarter, but they will all be strong.
Okay. Understood. That's great. And then looking quickly at your cash flow, looking at CapEx for this year and next year, what kind of levels can we expect here? Last year, you had roughly EUR 6.6 million in addition to the acquisition you did going forward.
Are we still looking at something in the mid- to high single-digit investments in -- I mean, obviously, I know you're investing now the EUR 5.5 million. But if we take that away, what's the underlying CapEx spent here over the next 2, 3 years?
So over the next 2 to 3 years, we will invest about EUR 20 million to EUR 30 million in total CapEx for the year.
In total CapEx, including the EUR 5.5 million?
Including the EUR 5.5 million.
And we will move forward with the questions of Jürgen Wagner.
Can you can hear me now, I guess?
Yes, Mr. Wagner. We can hear you.
Sorry for the delay. I have a question on your silicon carbide tool business. This week, we heard from Infineon or they are executing on their supply from Chinese silicon carbide wafer manufacturers. When would China become a market for your equipment as Infineon that they will -- yes, buy physical wafers already this year. And a follow-up on Mr. Mühe, can you share what he's doing now post June?
So first on SiC tools, China is already a market for that. We are in touch with several customers there. And I would say it's a question of time when we see the first orders there or see significant orders there.
But so that's for -- and the answer to question number one. And the question number 2 is simply no idea what Andreas is doing after that, what his plans are. [indiscernible] he is not here available for today but I can ask him. So I'm sorry about that.
I think it's kind of a private question. You have to ask him by yourself.
And we'll move forward with the question of Hartmut Moers.
Can you hear me?
Yes, we can hear you.
Great. Well, I think your sales level was very positive, in particular, in view of the fact that Q1 traditionally is a rather weak quarter on the sales side. So that's a very positive. What's worrying me a bit is on the profitability side, and in particular, the margin.
So on the GP side, there was not too much of a deviation to the 30% that you're targeting. So just here's the difference to the 30% still driven by the Crystal Growing on the research that you were undertaking currently? Or is that more market driven?
Could you repeat your last question again, please?
Yes. On the GP margin side, you told us last quarter that the expenses you're currently undertaking in view of the research for new Crystal Growing Systems has weighted on the GP margin. And is this still the case or the past this still been the case in the first quarter, or is this no factor anymore?
Okay. Now I understand what you wanted to ask. Yes, that's a good question. We have still some research and development in the gross margins, it's not -- not any more, mostly affected by the Crystal Growing System we developed last year and such -- just a little bit.
And our further developments with customer on the industrial side we have driven forward as well. And then there is a second effect, which I just based on the slower development on the first quarter, higher cost of materials we had in the first quarter and the product mix at all, especially in industrial segment.
Mr. Moers, if you have a follow-up up question, please raise your hand again. And we will move forward with the questions of [indiscernible].
Yes. I have just one question related to the order intake and prepayment topic. So did you receive in Q1 any orders? Or do you still have one from previous quarters where it did not get any prepayments yet, so that you didn't recognize it as order intake, but which will take into -- or which will come into order intake in the coming quarters when you receive the prepayments? Are there any orders like this?
We always have a few of these orders in our books. So also this quarter, I can't give you any concrete number on how much that is. But it's always the case that a few orders are not recognized in our order book because we didn't receive the prepayment yet.
That's the reason why we are always a little bit more confident with the future development than you might be.
Okay. Would you see this as a double-digit figure or...
Let's leave it a surprise for Q2. So we see high demand on all levels still, and we see very good discussion with our customers. And there will be more orders to give us -- or the production busy in the future as well.
And we received a follow-up question from Mr. Hartmut Moers.
Yes. So I would like to follow up on the profitability issue. So going down from the GT to the EBIT line, I mean, looking at your fixed cost base, so everything below the GT down to the EBIT line has increased quite significantly quarter-on-quarter.
We are now at a level of about EUR 11 million. So I remember last year, you gave us a rough breakdown of the cost development for the quarters. So for the first quarter, this is unusually high. Will we now see some lower levels in the coming quarters? Or what is the reason behind this rather high level in the first quarter and how this is for the future development?
So I think we have to decide and make a difference between the certain cost positions we have. So in terms of cost of sales, there were some additional investments to create our -- or further create our sales structure and improve our sales structure all over the world, which we already started in last year -- planning.
And we remember, for example, that development in Korea or in the Korean market, we set it up. That's something that's very important for us to get that sales structure a little bit further developed and stronger in the position.
And the second part is administrative costs, which will develop in the future a little bit on a the low -- on the higher level as before. There are a lot of regulations we have to met and reporting -- or additional reportings we will have to create in the future in terms of ESG and everything around which will keep us a little bit on a higher level of the cost structure.
Additionally, we had better results in Q1 2023 as we had in the years before. That's why already the positions or the accruals for profit sharing of our managements is included in that result.
Does that mean we are more looking at the EUR 11 million as a run rate for the coming quarters? Is that how I should understand that?
Yes.
Okay. And another question would be -- I mean, you have referred to prepayments. Have you had material prepayments in the first quarter already? So I mean, the cash -- operating cash came in at about EUR 10 million. Is this more driven by the release of working capital? Or is that also prepayment driven?
That is also prepayment driven.
Okay. And a last issue would be on the order book. You're now at EUR 327 million. You used to give us a time structure for the book. So how much is scheduled for the current year of that order book?
Yes. So we will take about 40% to 50% in this year and, let's say, 30% to 40% in the next, and then the rest in 2025 already.
Okay. But that would give -- given that you have EUR 58 million already, you might get around, let's say, EUR 40 million order intake, regular orders, short-term orders that you can execute in the quarter, plus 50% of the book. That brings you roughly to the high end of your guidance, which is -- which supports your confidence. Is this the way how we should view it?
Yes. So I feel very confident with our guidance on EUR 240 million to EUR 260 million. We will be somewhere around, and we will not disclose on the higher level of the guidance yet. We see very confident development in the next quarters. We stay with the guidance.
Okay. It was really helpful. And all the best you, Mr. Bender, if we haven't a chance anymore to talk.
And we will move forward with the questions of Miguel Lago.
Yes. Can you hear me well?
Yes.
Great. Okay. One question left from my side. Especially in industrial systems, very strong development in Q1. Is there any one-off effect that was influencing this strong development? Or is it like a usual run rate we will see in the coming quarters as well?
It's all go into business, no one time effect.
Okay. Given the order book, roughly EUR 16 million per quarter should be a fair assumption for following quarters?
Makes sense, yes.
Okay. Makes sense. Yes, that's it from my side. And of course, all the best to you, Mr. Bender.
And I have another follow-up question from Constantin Hesse.
Yes. Sorry. I just heard, Mr. Bender, did you say EUR 16 million would be roughly run rate for the industrials division in terms of sales? I would actually have expected it to be a little bit higher given the size of your order book? Is it because you have limitation -- is it limited by capacity? Or what's the reason that you can't go much higher than the EUR 16 million?
Jalin?
So it's -- I think the EUR 16 million is just the roughly number for a quarter that we could have in one of our quarters in 2023. And -- we have about, let's say, EUR 50 million to EUR 60 million or 70 million in terms of industrial business every year what we have -- and we see the last 3 years, we will develop that further. So we will be somewhere around that development with plus x percent of the prior year.
But you have more capacity so you could change...
Yes. So we are building out the capacity actually. So that's why we are taking that building in place.
Okay. Understood. And then a quick question again just on the order flow. Maybe Jalin, quickly over to you. Looking at the next 3 years. So in '23, fine, guidance is obviously with that order book, I think, pretty confident. You're going to achieve that. Looking at '24, '25, how confident are you that these are going to be growth years? And how dependent is that growth on another Siltronic order?
So overall, there is a very high demand we see in the markets we are in, and because of the growth driver we already mentioned. Yes. So I'm pretty confident that there will be further business development, and we will see further steps in our development as well.
In terms of midterm guidance. So we announced the midterm guidance for 2024 a few years ago, which we are still very confident with. Give me some time for the development of a new midterm guidance during the year. So we will announce something at the end of this or beginning of next year to give you a little bit more view into the future.
Absolutely. That's absolutely fair enough. Can I just ask you, you just mentioned the '24 guidance. That was EUR 250 million in sales. This year, however, you are already achieving potentially EUR 260 million. So are we thinking rather something around the EUR 250 million mark for '24? Or do you think this -- is it going to be another growth year in '24? Or is it going to be relatively stable?
So our guidance for this year is about EUR 240 million to EUR 260 million. So we will see where we finally end up in that range. 2024 will be a very good year as well. So our guidance with the 15% of EBIT is still stable. And we will see some further development in sales, at least a step reside, but I'm pretty confident that we will be able to say a little bit more about that in the next month.
That's perfect. And then quickly on China, any risks you guys are seeing there in terms of the geopolitics? Have there been any discussions on potential export restrictions? How much of your Metrology business is China, if I may ask?
So of course, there are theoretic risks with them as always. The political situation is not stable currently, but our exposure to China is moderate at the moment, so risk is rather limited. So -- well, there is a risk, no doubt, but we don't need to be concerned about that.
Looking at the EUR 80 million you reported in Asia in '22, how much of that was China?
So I can tell you how much about our order intake is China. That's 12% in total amount.
And we received a few questions via the chat. And the first one from Mr. Martin Jungfleisch, it's about the order trend. Would you expect the good order trend to come down in Q2? What are your customers saying? Is there any particular customer group that sticks out?
So this is a topic we already had in the last discussions of the questions. And so we see a very good view into the market, still a high demand, and have very good discussions with our customers. We don't see total weakness in order intake in the future. And there might be some weaker quarters we will see, but that doesn't say that the whole demand will go down. So still a very good position in the market.
Okay. And from Mr. Jungfleisch we also received a question regarding the gross margin. Were gross margins mainly impacted by mix effects? An example, higher share of lower-margin industrials? Or was there anything else? Would you see gross margins up in Q2 versus Q1?
So gross margin was affected by higher cost of materials and the product mix, especially in the industrial systems area. Gross margin will further develop step-by-step and -- but always, gross margin is a little bit weaker as we have some R&D costs also reflected in gross margin. It depends how much development work we are doing in the months.
Okay. And from Mr. [ Matthias Mira ], we received a question. With the main shareholders selling out and no new major shareholder is in the table, is there a risk of under ownership? An example, no stronger owner to give strategic goal posts to PVA and/or support in difficult times?
Well, I think we don't have that risk. We are happy with 100% free flow and also in foreign currency or any risk because of that.
And received a few questions via the other line. Please go ahead, [indiscernible].
This is [indiscernible] speaking. Can you hear me?
Yes, we can.
Okay, wonderful. I would like to ask a follow-up on the Chinese silicon carbide ecosystem. Is this correct or -- at least this is my understanding that at least at the moment or currently, you haven't shipped any tool to the Chinese producers of silicon carbide? Is this correct?
And what kind of tools then you have been using so far? Is there a strong incumbent there in China? And what is the reason why you haven't been able to ship tools? And what needs to be done, yes, in order to participate in the strong growth in China?
And second one is more optimistic on China. Even if you haven't been able to have a customer there, how does the pipeline look like specifically? And how surprising [ then ] here?
So as Manfred already mentioned, there are customers in China we already delivered systems to, and there are discussions with customers in China, following orders as well. So I think we already have a portion in the Chinese business as well. And that can further be developed, yes.
And you asked what we need to do? What we need to do is exactly what we currently do. We need to develop an own basic process for production of SiC crystals. So that means most Chinese customers are not only asking about -- for the hardware, they would need also the -- at least the basic process know-how for the production process. And that's where we -- very often talked about, that's what we currently are in the process to develop.
Yes. Understood. Yes. And how does the competitor feel, the competitive landscape today looking in China? Is there a strong local competitor operating there? And how long does it take to come up with this kind of process you just mentioned, in order to kind of -- yes, this is probably a tool and the services, yes, to -- and in order to get more traction there?
Well, to finalize the production process or our basic process means another about 1 to 1.5 years. [indiscernible] in term of our plans. There is competition in China, yes. But -- well, that's something we have to handle. I think we are not too late with the new process. We are already even 1 or 1.5 years.
Okay. And yes, can you give a little -- or provide a little bit more detail then on the pipeline you have specifically out of China? And how does the pipeline here in Europe look like in silicon carbide?
So let's discuss silicon carbide all over. There is a very high demand in the market. And we have several systems that are supporting -- are supported by that development of silicon carbide in the market. It's not only about Crystal Growing Systems, there is a high demand because of the material is needed, and that's as well the case in Europe as in China or all over the world. Japan, for example.
It's also about Metrology systems or graphite cleaning systems, which are driving the demand at the moment in our house. So we will participate from the demand of silicon carbide in certain areas of the business.
And we also received a few questions from Adam Jakubowski.
Yes. Can you hear me?
Yes. We can hear you.
Okay. At first, I would like to join my colleagues in wishing Mr. Bender all the best for the future. I have 3 smaller questions. The first is, how is MPA doing at the moment? How is the integration progressing? The second question is, are some of the costs of the new production site you were talking about already seen in the P&A statement of the first quarter?
And the last question is, the net cash position in the Q1 report. Just to be sure, are there these financial assets, this EUR 9 million, excluded? Or are they included in this number?
Thanks for that question. So integration work of MPA is developing very well. So they are very close in contact with our industrial area in all areas and already have developed very well in terms of the business development, sales and EBIT.
And let me come to your question to the production line. So the EUR 5.5 million are not included in the cash yet. So that will come up during the year. And net cash, I'm not sure if I understand that question right, but all over the balance sheet, you will find roughly about EUR 50 million to EUR 60 million cash in certain areas of the balance sheet.
And we've received a follow-up question from Constantin Hesse.
Sorry, last one, I promise. On the SiC, I just want to follow up on Hartmut's question. The -- you're saying the demand is very strong. It's actually a question I also wanted to ask before. But the only thing we're hearing so far is STM. And I think we're missing 50 machines are there to be ordered for that.
But we've never really heard of any other player that you might be having conversations with or even any kind of more concrete outlook here. So when you say strong demand, I guess on the graphite cleaning part, that signed metrology, clearly, we're seeing strong trend there. But Crystal Growing equipment, is there anything else that you're able to share with us? Yes, anything more concrete here would be helpful in terms of potential future growth.
As Jalin already said, we see a lot of demand for SiC-related business from our subsidiary MPA, for example, and also for our industrial part in graphite cleaning parts or machines. So that's what we currently see. And you're right.
In fact, we have one major customer for SiC, crystal growing systems this time. And that is STM, that's correct. That's a significant order, and we're happy to have this. And we are in touch with other customers, but there is nothing concrete to report yet, which is -- will be finalized very soon.
Okay. So there are no final conversations ongoing for future Crystal Growing orders?
There are no gag-order conversations.
Well, it seems there are no further questions. Thank you very much for your questions, and thank you very much, Mr. Bender, Mrs. Ketter, and Dr. Fisahn, for the detailed presentation and your time answering all those questions. Also from our side, we wish you all the best, Mr. Bender. And I hand over for some remarks to you.
Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you for your good wishes. So I -- my impression is that I did hundreds of these conference calls during my career and my job as a Board member here and in other companies. And I always enjoyed that discussion with you and I would be happy to do that again.
It's not decided yet what I'm doing now. But maybe we meet again, I would be happy. I always enjoyed discussing with you. I joined PVA TePla in 2021, early 2021. And the idea was that I hand over some of my experience, which I definitely have, to the Board members here at PVA TePla, for example, Jalin Ketter.
I think this job is done now. The company is on the way to make EUR 240 million to EUR 260 million sales. When I joined the company, it was a little bit above EUR 130 million. So it's nothing bad. I can look back at a good 2.5 years here at the company. The job is done and I hand over a company, which is in a very good shape, to my colleagues and the new Board.
So that's a good time to say goodbye to PVA TePla and so we, the capital market and me, maybe we'll meet again at another place, nobody knows. So maybe we have -- our paths cross again then, so I would be happy. So far, take care. And let's look what happens. Thank you very much for your patience with me. And hope to see you again.