Nemetschek SE

XETRA:NEM

Earnings Call Transcript 2022-Q1

[Operator]

Dear ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the earnings call of Nemetschek Group at our [indiscernible]. This conference will be recorded. [Operator Instructions] May I now hand you over to Stefanie Zimmermann, who will lead you through this conference. Please go ahead.

[Stefanie Zimmermann, executive]

Thank you, operator. Hello, everyone, and a big welcome. Thanks for joining our earnings call today to discuss the results for the first quarter 2022 results. With me today are our CEO, Yves Padrines; and our CFOO, Axel Kaufmann. Today's conference call is being recorded. A replay of the call will be available at our website after the call. Additionally, you will find the presentation and the press release on our Investor Relations website as well. But now let's get started. I would like to turn over to Yves. Go ahead, Yves.

[Yves Padrines, executive]

Thank you, Stefanie. Hello, everyone, and welcome to our first quarter 2022 earnings call. After the substantial amount of new information we provided you on our subscription strategy and the Bluebeam transition in the course of our full year reporting last month, we are now returning to our usual short but informative slide deck that our CFOO Axel Kaufmann and I would like to walk you through, so that we have enough time for your questions afterwards.

So let's start with an overview of our key business highlights of the first quarter 2022 on Page #3. We had a very successful start of the year. We can see a continuation of the trends we saw at the end of 2021, very strong growth combined with a high profitability. This development is also reflected in all our major KPIs where we reached new record levels across the board. This success, once again, highlights the operational strength of our business, which is based on, first, our strong market position, along with our attractive and innovative software solutions; second, our strategic initiatives such as the internationalization of our brands and the ongoing harmonization efforts; and last but not least, the high level of commitment and passion of our over 3,400 employees.

In summary, this translated to revenues of EUR 192 million and a growth of more than 21%. Even if we adjust for the strong FX tailwind in Q1, mainly coming from the stronger U.S. dollar, our revenue increased by 17.5%. The primary growth driver was once again our recurring business, and in particular our subscription and SaaS sales with an increase of nearly 60%.

We are pleased to see that our EBITDA grew overproportionally by 41% based on the continued improvement in internal efficiency. The resulting EBITDA margin of 36.3% represents a 500 basis points increase versus last year. So we had strong earnings growth, along with a high cash conversion and a solid balance sheet.

I will now hand over to Axel Kaufmann, who will dive a bit deeper into important aspects of our financial results.

[Axel Kaufmann, executive]

Thank you very much, Yves. And it's going to be a pleasure to do so. With that, a warm welcome to our first quarter earnings call also from my side.

On Page #4, you'll find the 4 segments and their development during the first 3 months of the year. Starting from the left side, the Design segment recorded an increase in revenues of 10%, and 8% on a currency-neutral basis, which was supported by a very strong subscription growth of more than 60% year-over-year. Let me mention here that we operate on plan in this division. I fully expected this temporary slightly slower growth in the first quarter, and thus already incorporate it in our full year outlook for 2022. Notably stronger subscription share of revenues and some pull-forward effects from last Q4 subsequently impacted the start of this year in the division.

Apart from this, the segment's focus in the first quarter was on progressing and finishing the various integrations and mergers we did in the last year. With this optimized setup, we're therefore confident to achieve an acceleration in growth in the coming quarters again. The EBITDA margin stayed on a comparably high level versus last year.

Next, our Build segment continued its strong growth momentum for the last quarter with 24% growth on a currency-neutral basis and a very high margin. The largest contributor to this result was once again our brand Bluebeam, which was able to win the highest monthly number of users in the company's history. Simultaneously, Bluebeam continued to professionally and diligently prepare the launch of its subscription transition to start in the second half of this year.

Then our Media segment. Many of you had an opportunity to talk in more depth with us about this great business, which we built up in the last years to a new level. Q1 shows a stellar quarter in terms of growth, 68% year-over-year, as well as profitability with a record margin of 47%. We're now harvesting the fruits of Maxon's successful transformation into having become one of the leading players in the media industry. With the recent acquisition of Pixologic as well as the continued improvement of our flagship product, Maxon ONE, the segment is continuing its above-group average growth.

And last but not least, in our smaller segment, Manage, we still saw effects due to the global COVID pandemic, mainly an ongoing cautious investment behavior of some customers, along with some hardware and services delivery constraints. The financial impact is small given the relative share of wallet and compared to other segments, however, as we strongly believe that the promising long-term growth potential for this segment remains unchanged, we feel well positioned to benefit from the increasing demand for smart and sustainable building management solutions. With recent wins of logos and being ranked as a leading solution provider in this space, we also continue to invest and are confident concerning an improving situation.

Moving on, and as you all know, a regular topic in our earnings call and one of the key strategic priorities of management is to increase the recurring revenue share of our business, mainly via a phased transition to a more subscription and SaaS-based business model. On this Page #5, we therefore included an update on the great progress we have made in the recent quarters and years. Taking a closer look at the different components of our recurring revenue growth, it becomes clear that our segment-tailored subscription strategy is particularly successful. We are very pleased with the development of our subscription and SaaS revenues in the first quarter with a foreign exchange-adjusted growth of nearly 55%. As a result, starting from just 7% in 2019, we were able to gradually increase our subscription and SaaS share to a remarkable 23% today. Along with our maintenance contracts, we're able to once again increase our total recurring share to a new record high of 63% of total revenues.

Concluding my part in this Page #6, where we provide an overview of our most important P&L, balance sheet and cash flow positions. As Yves already addressed our key KPIs, revenue and EBITDA, in detail previously, let me continue with going further down the details. You'll notice that our strong earnings growth and the increased internal efficiency is reflected throughout the entire income statement, which accumulates to a 45% increase at the earnings per share level. Our high cash conversion of more than 100% and the increase in operating cash flow by 19% both underpin the high quality of our business model.

In summary, we once again further improved the healthiness of our balance sheet in the Nemetschek Group, represented in important metrics such as the equity ratio, which now stands at 53% compared to 49% last year, and a net cash position of around EUR 87 million.

And with that, let me hand back to Yves.

[Yves Padrines, executive]

Thank you, Axel. So before we come to the end of our presentation with our outlook for the financial year 2022, let me briefly highlight on the next 2 slides why we are so confident to reach our ambitious goals in 2022 as well. In short, it's the strength of our underlying operational business, which became even more diversified and thus resilient in the recent years.

Starting with the first of the 2 slides on Page #8. Recently, there have been a lot of discussion about the potential downturn of the global economy in the second half of this year. While Nemetschek will not be completely immune in the case of an important global recession, I would still like to use this opportunity to highlight how well diversified and resilient our business has become over the last years.

Starting with the chart at the top. In the COVID year 2020, we have already shown that our AECO segments are affected by deteriorating market conditions at different points in time. This helped us to better manage a potential downturn across our portfolio. In addition, you see that we have become substantially less dependent on a single customer group or segment, in this case Design, which today accounts for only 48% versus 66% in 2017.

And lastly, with the higher share of our Media segment, we have increased exposure to our industries with a completely independent business cycle versus the AECO industry. The increased share of Build and Media, along with our successful internationalization strategy, also resulted in a better diversified geographic exposure. Or put differently, we are less dependent on single countries or regions.

In our last call, we have already discussed one of our key developments in recent years, the strong increase in the share of recurring revenues. Along with our high customer retention rates, these revenues provide a more stable and better plannable revenue streams even during more challenging economic conditions.

Page #9 shows a second slide with the multiple building blocks of Nemetschek's strong foundation, namely the still huge untapped market potential in both AECO and Media; our position as one of the market leaders in both of these industries with our best-in-class solutions; our very successful and high growth and high margin model; as well as a high and constantly rising share of recurring revenues. If you combine these with the high degree of resilience we just talked about, then you understand what gives us the confidence to achieve our guidance once again this year.

And now as we come to the end of our presentation, I would like to turn to our 2022 outlook on Page #10. Based on the strong fundamentals that I just presented, we continue to be optimistic and expect an attractive growth along with a high profitability in 2022, even during the partial subscription transition of our business model. In particular, this means that from today's perspective, we are keeping our guidance for 2022. Please note that this outlook is based on the assumption that there will be no significant deterioration in the global macroeconomic as well as industry-specific conditions, in particular in the light of the recent growing global economic risk due to the war in Ukraine. So we expect a revenue growth at constant currency in the range of 12% to 14% for the financial year 2022, and we target an EBITDA margin between 32% and 33%.

And with that said, I would like to thank you for your attention, and we are now happy to take your questions. So operator, please, back to you.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] We have a first question. It's from Chandramouli Sriraman of Stifel.

[Chandramouli Sriraman, analyst]

Congrats on a good start to the year. Just a couple of questions from my side. I just want to double-click on the Design part of the business. I'd say there is "weak spot" that is Design. How should we see Design evolve in the coming quarters, especially in the second half when the Bluebeam transition begins. Would you be able to compensate for the drop in the top line growth of Bluebeam with Design? Number two, on -- we're also hearing comments coming out that the overall demand in Germany is slowing down. Any comment on that would be super helpful. And lastly, on the Media business, I was pleasantly surprised at the growth rate. Can you talk about any specific drivers? Is this a sustainable level of growth for the rest of the year?

[Yves Padrines, executive]

Thanks, Chandramouli. So clearly, we have a strong Q1, and especially if you see the end of our first quarter, we can see that clearly Design picked up again. And we saw some good growth, again, coming up in the last month of Q1 on the Design part. So I will let Axel comment a little bit more on the Design piece. But in general, I can tell you that -- to answer your question on Germany, we do -- of course, yes, I mean, they are -- we are in a crisis, and there is this war, terrible war in Ukraine. But clearly, we see still some very strong momentum in the DACH region, in Germany.

And then to answer your question on the Media side, yes, Q1 was exceptional. We had an extraordinarily strong Q1 in Media coming, yes, from acquisitions, but we had also this special case in China where we had to last time buy off some perpetual licenses. And that's why we had a peak and a high in Q1, which you will not see in the rest of the year.

[Axel Kaufmann, executive]

Yes. Axel here. Chandra, can I just add on what -- to what Yves was saying regarding Design. Thank you for your question. We've seen that most of you had Design in their -- in your models and in your plans with around 9% growth. Now it's approximately has been 8%. So there's not a huge difference, I would say, for one. Second, indeed, it was in our plans according to now the development, because what we've mentioned in the presentation, some pull-forward effects. We've seen a very strong Q4, as you may remember, in terms of comparables as well. Then the subscription push that continues to happen also in the Design division for good reasons.

And again, our commitment, and from what we've seen in a strong March, being the strongest month in the first quarter going into the second quarter, expecting really an acceleration of the Design division in the coming quarters. So overall, we're confident -- still confident, have that in our plans. And as you say, yes, the subscription move of Bluebeam is fully incorporated in the guidance currently. And yes, by all of the other segments, which are running as well as good as the Build segment, just incorporating this accounting effect. And starting in the second half, we are able to compensate, and that's why we're confident on the overall guidance.

[Operator]

The next question is by George Webb of Morgan Stanley.

[George Webb, analyst]

A couple of questions on my side, please. Firstly, just going back on Media & Entertainment. You mentioned the China license sales. Can you also quantify that for Q1? Or maybe even better if you can, how should we ballpark the thinking about constant currency growth and EBITDA margin for Media & Entertainment for FY '22 as a whole?

And then secondly, on Manage, I know it's a small part of the business, still pretty slow growth at the moment. It feels like there's at least some component of execution issue in there as well as the market backdrop. So any kind of further context you can give there would be helpful.

[Axel Kaufmann, executive]

Well, Axel here. Thank you, George. Again, we're changing microphones here on our end, but let us comment as good as we can. Thanks for the compliments on the first quarter. Now on Media, I don't think we want to break out the -- even if we could, the kind of pull-forward effect on the China topic, which is one of the last countries really we're going in terms of the subscription transition. But it was quite a part of the overall growth. And that's why Yves rightfully would have mentioned that this should not be expected to the same degree going forward. So somewhat overproportionate growth in Media as part of what we commented already.

[Yves Padrines, executive]

But still with very high growth, obviously, compared to the rest of the business on the Media side, but not as strong as in Q1.

[Axel Kaufmann, executive]

And also on your -- the second part in terms of the currency-neutral, so constant currency, still a remarkable growth. We know that we operate quite a lot in the U.S. So we're benefiting. There's maybe some high single-digit percentage number in difference in terms of reported and currency-neutral, if that gives you a better feeling for your model.

[George Webb, analyst]

That's helpful. And just before the Manage question on that, I mean do you have an internal expectation for what you're expecting the Media & Entertainment do in terms of growth for the year? That would be kind of helpful to help us calibrate our numbers.

[Yves Padrines, executive]

Well, as I said, it's not going to be as strong as Q1. So it will be in a range which is going to be very, very high figures, but clearly below 50%.

[Operator]

Our next question is by Sven Merkt of Barclays.

[Sven Merkt, analyst]

Okay. Great. Congratulations on the strong quarter. Could you talk first a bit about cost growth and hiring? OpEx are still just 15% above their 2020 level. And I understand that in the current environment, it's difficult to hire. But do you see yourselves becoming a bit more aggressive later this year to hire the talent that you need for your growth ambition and investments a bit more general? And then secondly, could you talk a bit about pricing? We're clearly seeing inflation remaining an important topic and some software vendors have started to speak about price rises. And they often have built these actually already into their contracts. So could you give us a bit an idea how your brands deal with this topic and if some brands already started to increase prices to compensate for inflation?

[Yves Padrines, executive]

Thanks, Sven. So I think clearly, on the pricing side, we are currently reviewing our pricing strategy in general and doing deeper dive for brands. But in general, they are not so much price increase. Most of the brands are not doing big price increase strategy. It's really the volumes which are driving our revenue growth, not a price increase. And so this may change over time, but for the moment, clearly, we don't see really a need to do a big price increase. But we are still reviewing, obviously, our pricing strategy per brand.

On the OpEx side, so as we commented in our last call, in the industry, obviously hiring and retaining talent is a key topic for all industry, by the way, not only in the software and technology space. And that is something that we are taking very seriously. I'm very pleased on the fact that we are able and we were able in Q1 to hire fantastic talent, and we are continuing to attract such good people. But it is true that if you compare it to a few years ago or some time ago, the after COVID period, it's more difficult to attract and do the hiring than in the past. But I think that's a general trend for everybody.

[Sven Merkt, analyst]

Okay. That's helpful. Could you also comment a bit more on the cost side, because we had this kind of very limited cost growth in Q1 and it would be helpful to understand a bit how you think which factors could drive cost growth in the rest of the year, which would bring you then within the guided range.

[Axel Kaufmann, executive]

Yes. Thank you, Sven. Axel here. Just to add on to what Yves was mentioning already. Indeed, when we look at the cost structure of the group, and I think on a high level this is true for basically all brands, there's very small cost of sales. And really, in terms of the operational expenses, the majority, more than 72%, is really coming from personnel. That's the reason why we break it out as well.

Now looking at the first quarter, not forgetting that we were well underway in terms of the target achievements last year, no surprise to me that there were, in terms of cash payouts, higher levels of payouts in terms of the variable remuneration and compensation of people. In terms of the expenses, naturally, it's what Yves was, I think, referring to in terms of also holding on to good talent in terms of retention and then also hiring efforts and hiring costs. So cost drivers naturally would be the war for talent and the fight for talent basically, along with a little bit the infrastructure of our installed base in terms of the locations as well as the tools that we use to further grow towards the EUR 1 billion mark.

[Operator]

The next question is by Martin Jungfleisch of BNP Paribas Exane.

[Martin Jungfleisch, analyst]

Also, congrats from my side on the good quarter. I have 2 questions, please. First one is on Bluebeam. You mentioned that you had the largest customer intake ever in March. If the strong new customer intake continues, do you again see a chance to slow or postpone the subscription transition that is currently planned for the second half of this year? And the other question is on Media & Entertainment. Given that advertising spending may be a bit weaker going forward, how do you think that will impact your business with advertising clients there? And has there been a historical correlation of advertising spending and M&E software sales?

[Yves Padrines, executive]

So on the Bluebeam -- Hi, Martin, so on the Bluebeam migration, clearly, we are still highly committed to start the subscription migration for all our customers early July. No change, still strong commitment. So far, so good. I think what we have done with some of our large enterprise customers, there is a very good momentum. And it's working well, so we are not expecting for the moment any delay on such Bluebeam migration.

Second question on the Media side, we do not see a big correlation with the advertising industry. As you may know, when we say Media, our type of customers are quite large. We are talking about 3D animations. So we are talking about customers which are in the [ movie ] industry, cinema industry, gaming industry. Yes, of course, we have also broadcasters. Yes, of course, there are some of these elements which are used by people doing some of the video and TV advertising. But we do not see any downsize or any decrease because of advertising spending. So our Media momentum is very big, and we see still very high growth coming from it this fiscal year.

[Operator]

The next question is by [ Florian Treisch ] of [ Kepler Cheuvreux ].

[Florian Treisch, analyst]

Not so much left on my side. So I would love to come back to the point of new hirings. So if you just look at the pure numbers, I think you are really a negative outlier in the way that you have basically flat number of employees year-over-year while the whole industry is much more aggressively hiring. So I would love to hear what might be the reason for that, and what do you believe is a realistic level looking towards the end of the year? And what is, I would call, like a sustainable hiring rate to enable your business to grow in the teens as we are targeting, as I assume flat is not the right answer here?

[Yves Padrines, executive]

Well, so clearly we are working on different plans on the HR and talent side to be more -- much more aggressive on talent acquisitions. There has been, in particular the last fiscal year, some attrition, more important in some brands than others. But that was due to a big transformation that we have performed in terms of strategy and organization with some of our brands, in particular in the U.S. And -- but overall, this is something that we are currently working on. This is a top priority for me personally as a new CEO in the company. And we are going to be more aggressive, and we will do whatever is needed to make sure that we are hiring the right talent to support our strong growth in the future. For the moment, we do not see any big risk from it, but we are keeping that as a top priority for us in the short and midterm.

[Operator]

The next question is by Knut Woller, Baader Bank.

[Knut Woller, analyst]

A couple of questions. Just starting firstly on Manage, looking at the Manage segment, you mentioned still the COVID headwinds that you're seeing. However, at the end of the quarter, some of the restrictions, lockdown measures basically eased. And so what did you observe at the end of the quarter? And is Manage also an area when you continue to believe in the long-term growth prospects of the segment where you intend to strengthen the segment by the means of M&A?

Then secondly, just briefly on Media & Entertainment, what was the organic growth rate you have seen? And lastly, looking at Bluebeam in a different perspective, did you see any pull-forward effects due to the shift to subscriptions that customers still opted to consume under the old model?

[Yves Padrines, executive]

So on the Bluebeam part, definitely, we haven't seen any pull-forward effect at all. It's just the fact that there is a strong demand and a very growth area in these parts of the business, which is the collaboration part in the construction industry. So definitely no pull forward, just very good market growth and demand on the product.

Maybe on the Manage side, I think here, Axel?

[Axel Kaufmann, executive]

Yes. Knut, thanks for the question. Indeed, we've seen an ease and opening of some of the restrictions, as you say, in some of the countries. It varies quite a lot. But as you know, the segment, in terms of the size overall, is not as internationalized as some of the other businesses. So we're more European-focused, winning some nice logos there in terms of what we probably can communicate also over the coming quarters when it comes to the smart building solutions. So IWMS, as it's called in the technical term, as well as energy solutions. Those are the 2 that fit very well into -- from our portfolio into what customers really need at this point of time.

I'm not sure whether the segment at this point of time is heavily looking and going after M&As, but that's certainly an option that we always want to keep open for all of us and monitor what could be potential targets.

[Yves Padrines, executive]

We clearly see Manage and operate as a very important division for the future of the group, and we will continue to invest and take this segment very seriously for future strategy.

[Knut Woller, analyst]

Maybe on the Media side?

[Axel Kaufmann, executive]

Yes. If we understood the question correctly, you were asking about the Media organic or inorganic impact coming from the Pixologic acquisition. And as I think we mentioned in the last call, that if we look at Media for the full year, it's somewhat a bit higher than the mid-teens. I think that was the guidance that we gave in terms of the overall effect. But please note that given our strategy in the segment, we'll more and more integrate those solutions, and it will be harder to really keep track of this because we're offering an integrated set of solutions incorporating also in the future Pixologic into what was called Maxon ONE. So -- but that's the estimation and that's still fully on track.

[Knut Woller, analyst]

Okay. And what was the inorganic contribution of Pixologic in Q1, roughly?

[Axel Kaufmann, executive]

Well, again, we're talking on group level. And if we look at the mid-teens guidance for the full year, we don't see a large seasonality and there is no difference in terms of the 4 quarters.

[Operator]

The next question is by Nay Naing of Berenberg Bank.

[Nay Soe Naing, analyst]

Congratulations on a great quarter. I've got 2 questions, one on the macro environment and then secondly digging deeper into the margins. So can I start with the macro environment? Obviously, we have seen weakening macro indicators in Europe, especially in Germany, as well as you mentioned earlier, as well as the material shortages and labor shortages, I think have continued from 2021. But obviously, if you look at your Q1 print, it's a very solid result. And you have kept your full year guidance intact as well. So could you help me understand the bridge between the -- I suppose, the negative outlook in the macro environment versus really strong [indiscernible] results for Nemetschek?

[Yves Padrines, executive]

So again, as mentioned in the presentation, yes, there are some potential recession, or whatever you want to talk about and how you want to define it, for the rest of the year, or in particularly in the second half. But clearly, the trend of digitalization in construction is still there and is very low. So there is a huge demand for digitalization in the construction industry coming from the overall AECO life cycle. And for the moment, we are clearly not seeing any high risk, no issues for the rest of the year. I mean the demand is still there. Bookings are growing. Therefore, sales are growing. We do not foresee any important or any important risk for the moment.

[Nay Soe Naing, analyst]

That's very helpful. And then my second question is on the margins. Clearly, the 36.3% EBITDA margins for this quarter, it's very strong, and if I've got the numbers correctly, that's one of the highest in recent years as well. Presumably, there is some contribution from the one-off license sales in Media & Entertainment that we mentioned earlier. Can we get a breakdown of how much that contribution is? And then secondly, again, how should we think about the margins for the rest of the year in the context again that you have kept the full year margin guidance intact.

[Axel Kaufmann, executive]

Yes. Thank you for your question. We understand that we may look at the first quarter margin, and as you mentioned yourself, not forgetting, please, that what will happen in the coming quarters. A, as Yves was saying, we're willing to invest in certain areas; second, we're going to face the second quarter, especially in the Build division where -- I'm sorry, in the second half, especially in the Build division, where the transition to subscription taking, in effect, top line as well as bottom line. So overall, again, that's where we stand.

The kind of environment that we look at, and you mentioned it even yourself now with the macro commentaries, they keep us busy in that sense that we take it very seriously. We fully monitor the regions, the geographies where we operate in and try to pivot or be prepared for having to pivot and adjust to plans if things would develop in certain directions, which again, as Yves was saying, we don't see any serious indications for.

So in this kind of environment, I think it's just prudent to stick with the guidance, even given -- on the margin level, even given the great Q1, and just be prepared for certain things, and again, with all full confidence that this margin is what we currently see for the full year.

And then just to add on your -- the comment on Media in terms of whether this was a big effect pulling up the margin overall, I think that was neglectable in terms of margin just from the pull-forward effect. That really wasn't the main reason.

[Operator]

The next question is by Advika Jalan of Goldman Sachs.

[Deepshikha Agarwal, analyst]

This is Deepshikha Agarwal from Goldman Sachs. First of all, congratulations on a good quarter. So just a few questions, if I may. First one was -- it was mentioned that Design saw good momentum and subscription uptake. How are the customers reacting to the subscription offering in that segment? And can you give us a refresher of your strategy there as in any target in terms of subscription in the mix in that segment over the medium term? Is it still 15% by next year or higher?

And the second one would be on M&A. Can you just give us a color in terms of how does your M&A pipeline look from here, especially like in terms of any particular areas that you're looking at or any particular geographies that you're currently focusing on?

[Yves Padrines, executive]

So on the Design side, as I said, there is a good momentum, but our strategy for the moment is really to still offer both for most of our brands, all options. So perpetual licensing plus maintain option, or pure subscription options. There are some push a little bit for some brands to go towards more subscription. But in general, there is also market demand sometimes, that some of the market are more demanding subscription, so it's not necessarily also the brand pushing, it's more of the market. So it's really a mix of sometimes, the brand strategy, it is to push more subscription. In some other cases, there is more demand from the market to ask for subscription, which is then de facto bringing us to an acceleration of our SaaS and subscription business in the Design area.

For the moment, we are trying to see how we could potentially accelerate some move to subscription in the Design area, but we are not changing our overall strategy on the Design side.

For M&A, as I said in our last call, on the M&A side, we are looking at the overall AECO life cycle, and also on the Media side with 3D animation, to see, first of all, how we can potentially complement our current portfolio; second, trying to see how we can with some M&A activities or start-up investment, also accelerate some innovation with some new solutions that we are currently working on. But of course, we are also looking at any potential adjacent businesses that we may want to acquire in M&A activities within the overall AECO and Media 3D animation industries.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next question is by George Webb of Morgan Stanley.

[George Webb, analyst]

Just following up on the M&A point. I'm interested if you're seeing any differences at the moment in the private market in terms of valuations, given what's happened in the public markets or if it's actually stayed still relatively richly valued?

[Yves Padrines, executive]

No, George, we don't see any big difference, no difference yet. Still high valuations.

[Operator]

For the moment, there are no further questions. And so I hand back to you.

[Stefanie Zimmermann, executive]

Yes. Thanks, everyone, for attending. We will look forward to catching up with you next quarter. If you have any follow-up questions, please do not hesitate to contact me or my team. And with that, let's conclude our call for today. Thanks again for joining. Have a lovely afternoon or day. Thank you.

[Yves Padrines, executive]

Thank you, everyone. Bye-bye.

[Axel Kaufmann, executive]

Thank you. Bye.

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your attendance. This call has been concluded. You may disconnect.