Nemetschek SE

XETRA:NEM

Earnings Call Transcript 2019-Q1

[Operator]

Dear ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the earnings call of Nemetschek Group. At our customers' request, this conference will be recorded. [Operator Instructions] May I now hand you over to Stefanie Zimmermann, who will lead you through this conference. Please go ahead.

[Stefanie Zimmermann]

Thank you, operator. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to our conference call. Thank you for joining us to discuss our results for the first quarter 2019. Today's conference call is being recorded. A replay of the call will be available at our website after the call. As always, we have prepared a short presentation with the most important figures and highlights of the first 3 months of 2019. You will find the presentation, the quarterly report and the press release on our Investor Relations website as well. But now, let's start with the presentation. I would like to hand over to Patrik Heider, who will lead you through the presentation.

[Patrik Heider]

Thank you, Stefanie, and hello to everyone. I'm glad that you have joined our earnings call today. I will be brief in my presentation so that we have enough time for your questions afterwards. Overall, we had an excellent start into the year 2019 with an extraordinary strong growth in the first quarter. Our investments into our strategic growth initiatives and the further internationalization showing great success. Additionally, we also continued with our M&A dynamics and acquired 2 companies on brand level since the beginning of this year. Let me give you a more detailed overview of our key business highlights on Page 2. As already mentioned, we have an extraordinary strong start into 2019 with a revenue growth of 27%. All our segments and regions contributed to this excellent growth rate. Main drivers were our recurring revenues with a growth of around 34% and a strong growth in all our international markets. EBITDA margin reached high 28.2%. This high margin was positively influenced by the new IFRS 16 leasing standard. The adjusted margin would have been 25.5%, including strong investments to sustain our strong top line growth.Our cash conversion remains very high at 94.1%. With that, we can continue to grow our business and paying out a dividend after the AGM of EUR 0.81 per share. On acquisition side, we were already successful this year and performed 2 brand-level acquisitions. One in mid of January under the umbrella brand of Spacewell in the Manage segment and another one in April in the Media segment. Both acquisitions will strengthen the development of their segments. Let's turn to Page 3. Some more details on our top key figures. The key word here very strong revenue growth of 27.1%. Organic growth on high 21.1%. Spacewell contributed around EUR 6 million in the first quarter, aside comment. We saw in the first quarter a tailwind coming from U.S. dollar. We expected that this tailwind will come down over the next quarters. As already mentioned, recurring revenues from software maintenance contracts and subscription continued with a very strong growth of 33.9%, increasing our revenues up to EUR 68 million. Our profitability with an EBITDA margin of 28.2% was high, partly influenced by IFRS 16. The adjusted EBITDA margin of 25.5% is in line with our expectations. The results include additional strategic investments for innovations and next-generation solutions as well as for further internationalization. In addition, the growth-related increase of the number of employees during the last year led to a noticeable increase in personnel costs. In Q1, we saw the full effect of those hired employees. Additionally, we had some acquisition-related costs in the Media and the Manage and the below-average EBITDA margin of the Spacewell brand in the Manage segment. The EPS rose nicely by 19.7% to EUR 0.51. On Page 4, you can see the distribution of our revenues in recurring and software licenses. Meanwhile, we have more than 50% of our total sales in recurring revenues. Our revenues in subscription grew extremely strong with a growth of 124.8%. This number was positively influenced by our acquired brand in Spacewell. End of Q1, we had 7.5% of our total sales in subscription. I'm also happy to report that our license business grew double digit by 16.4%. All in all, our license business was strong again in the first quarter despite our strong subscription business.On Page 5, I would like to mention some highlights about our progress towards internationalization. The U.S. remains a strong growing region with a growth rate of more than 30%. In the first quarter, we saw an even stronger growth in the U.K. and in Scandinavia. Both markets are well-developed in terms of BIM. Besides the BIM regulation, the growth is also clearly the result of an entry of several brands into those markets. Europe and Asia are also strong growth markets for us. We see a lot of potential there in the future. And Germany is growing also strong in double-digit rate. The picture shows that we grow on all main regions extremely good. Turning now to our segment overview on Page 6. The Build segment achieved the strongest revenue growth of around 35%. EBITDA margins was at 31.8%. Adjusted EBITDA margin without the effect of IFRS 16 was slightly below last year at 28.4%, reflecting our strategic investments. The Design segment recorded a very strong revenue growth of 15.1%, positively influenced by the leading trade rate fair BAU in January via all Design brands attended. Profitability increased significantly to an EBITDA margin of 28.5%. Even without the impact of IFRS 16, we had a margin increase to 26.1%, while same time running strategic growth investments. The Manage segment was significantly strengthened through the acquisition of Spacewell. That's why we saw an extremely strong growth from EUR 2 million to EUR 8.2 million. Spacewell contributed EUR 6 million, so that organic growth was at 11.7%. Due to the acquisition costs and the below-average margin level at Spacewell, we saw in the first quarter a negative EBITDA margin. Adjusted for the acquisition-related costs, we could have seen -- we would have seen an EBITDA margin of 15.6%. Revenue in the Media & Entertainment segment increased also strongly by 23.9%. We see that our strategy to increase our share and installed a new management last year pays off. EBITDA margin was below last year because of acquisition-related costs and investments for future growth. Our cash conversion, shown on Page 7, remains strong. Our cash conversion rate is on EBITDA is on a high 94.1%. The operating cash flow increased in line with EBITDA by around 30%. Cash flow from investing activity is mainly driven by our acquisitions. Cash flow from financing activities contains the repayments of debt and new loans for our acquisitions. This development is leading us toward a net debt situation of around EUR 56 million by the end of Q1 2019. This healthy position enables us to invest into our future growth, both organically and via acquisitions. Turning now to Page 8. We discussed our strategic focus areas already end of last month when we published our annual report. All our activities are underway and will continue over the next quarters. Besides our 3 solution-focused initiatives in our 3 segments, we also invest in further internationalization. The group set-up allows the brands to go international much more efficiently and faster than before. Additionally, we're investing into operational excellence within our group to enable our future growth with increased efficiency. As we come to the end of my presentation on Page 9, I would like to confirm that our strong double-digit growth will continue in the next quarters. The first quarter was a great start into the year. Our financial model to invest into the strategic growth initiatives to generate sustainable high top line growth is the right model to strengthen our leadership in AEC. From today's perspective and based on the current portfolio, we are planning revenues for 2019 within the range of EUR 540 million to EUR 550 million, which translate into year-over-year growth of 17% to 19%. This year, Nemetschek will additionally invest EUR 10 million to EUR 12 million in strategic initiatives as presented. In spite of those investments and the still below average EBITDA margin for the newly acquired brands, group EBITDA margin for 2019 is expected to remain between 25% and 27% without effects from IFRS 16. With the IFRS 16 effects, we expect the EBITDA margin for 2019 that is in between 27% and 29%. Thank you very much for your ongoing interest into the Nemetschek Group. I'm now happy to answer your questions.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] We've received the first question. It comes from Gal Munda of Berenberg.

[Gal Munda, Analyst]

The first one I have, Patrik, is just in terms of the Design segment. It's growing again in low teens, which is a strong growth. Obviously, you mentioned BAU a fair help in that. But what are you seeing in terms of the growth in terms of new customers versus existing customers? Is the growth mainly coming from existing customers upgrading or adding the licenses and expanding? Or are you seeing penetration of the new customers, maybe even new markets there? That's the first question.

[Patrik Heider]

Thank you, Gal, for having the questions. And we do see BAU as we see 50-50. We see a higher penetration of existing customers but also new customers, mainly coming from further internationalization. So this is definitely when brands like Graphisoft, Allplan also are going to internationalize successful countries like the U.K. or U.S. which we mentioned, and also the other way around when Vectorworks is more penetrating in Europe. So we see both and that's a good message 50-50. And this why we are happy with this growth in the Design segment.

[Gal Munda, Analyst]

That's really helpful. And then just as a follow-up, if you talk a bit more about the Manage segment. It's becoming a bit more important. Obviously, acquisitions are coming in the space, organically you started growing. What are you seeing in the market to convince you kind of it's the right time to invest and accelerate the investment? And maybe the main question is how big can this market be for you compared to the other 2 significant business synergies that you have if you compare it to Design and to Build segment?

[Patrik Heider]

Yes. As you know this was really a strategic entry for us last year with the first acquisition we performed was MCS. And we do see the Manage segment as the future Build segment. So this year we guide them in the organic corridor 13% to 15%, but definitely next year, we're going to see higher growth rate. And it's all about the status of digitalization as we have seen and still see in the Build segment, it's the same and similar in the Manage segment. So digitalization is really starting in that segment and it's all about driving efficiency in the overall AEC value chain. And a good indicator also what you see is the number of targets and small companies you could acquire, so the M&A pipeline is really well-filled. And obviously, we look for the right ones. We are in that niche where the model knowledge is needed coming from the Design and Build. So overall, the Manage segment is a really big segment, but as you know, we're in this IWMS in this special niche segment and this potential is really high for us. So here we are talking about the future growth segment, which is more than EUR 7 billion in -- as a potential market for us, and this -- we are the only player in that segment. We don't see any competitor coming from Design and Build. And we want to conquer, and we want to really penetrate the whole AEC life cycle with that because we want to have the overall knowledge to build the best platforms in the future as well in that segment. This is why it's so strategic for us, and you're right it's already showing success. Yes, the margin is where it is at the moment. So the acquisition costs, if you -- as I already presented in my presentation, when you take them out, they are in that level what we expect, 15% to 17% and that's for us an investment segment. So this is why we are really happy to see how they develop.

[Gal Munda, Analyst]

That's really helpful. And just the last question I do have about the outlook. You guys had a very strong Q1, decided not to raise the target -- the outlook for the year at this stage, which makes sense. But when you look at growth prospect, you're saying around 17% to 19%, which is kind of above that range to what you'd be guiding for. Can you just help us break down that 17% to 19% between how much is kind of organic constant currency, how much is currency helping? And then maybe what you're expecting for inorganic contribution from any point contribution for this year?

[Patrik Heider]

Yes, of course. And as you already said, at the moment, we are really looking positive to the next 3 quarters, and we had an excellent start, but it also makes no sense to adjust the guidance for the moment, but that doesn't mean that we are in any aspect negative for the ongoing year. So the guidance was really based on the idea 17% to 19% for the overall revenues, and that means 13% to 15%, which is the stable corridor of last year and will be the stable one for the next ongoing quarters for 13% to 15% for the organic corridor. Based on a blend rate of EUR 1 -- EUR 119, so that's how we saw putting the guidance in place in March -- end of March.

[Operator]

The next question is from Robin Brass of Hauck & Aufhäuser.

[Robin Brass, Equity Analyst]

One question also on M&A side. I mean, you mentioned, you do have little bit of net debt right now, but what do you see as potential for further M&A this year? I mean how many targets you still think you could acquire? And also what could be the possible volume? And my second question would be, you made a recent acquisition in the Media & Entertainment segment. How opportune are the synergies working here for the 3D designs and Media segment that could be applied to maybe Design segment?

[Patrik Heider]

Yes. Robin, thank you for questions. We -- as you know, we're going to continue our M&A dynamics, and we do see an ongoing purchase price power at the moment in place of EUR 250 million. And if we do see the -- also ongoing looking forward brand-level acquisitions and group-level acquisitions remains really interesting for us. The last 2 were really brand-level acquisitions, and already last year we performed some brand-level acquisitions. Probability is higher that it's definitely in the Manage or Build segment. I would never exclude the Design segment, but definitely the probability is lower there. And from an internationalization perspective, it's definitely higher probability in the U.S. and in Europe, unfortunately not in Asia. And the valuation remains also still in place in our view, so 3 to 5x revenue multiples and 15 to 17x EBITDA multiples we still see as realistic. And this gives you an idea what we could add to the portfolio. And going to the Media & Entertainment to the acquisition we performed here, that's definitely -- and technology, which is interesting for also growing in in AEC -- in the corridor of AEC, but also helps them outside AEC. So that's really something very nicely technology what they contributed and added to the portfolio. It's not really a synergy because the synergy we already performed in 2014 by integrating the rendering front into the CAD software solutions in the Design segment, but it's definitely something on top, which even improves that opportunity in the Design segment brands as well. So here we are really happy to have this technology in base now as well.

[Robin Brass, Equity Analyst]

But you wouldn't necessarily also see another acquisition in this segment this year, I guess?

[Patrik Heider]

In the Media & Entertainment segment, definitely not a group-level acquisition. And I would never exclude brand-level acquisitions. This is what we're stating. But definitely, we would now integrate this brand as it should be and take the benefits out of this brand, so probability would be lower.

[Operator]

The next question is from Knut Woller of Baader Bank.

[Knut Woller, Analyst]

Just a couple of ones. Just getting back to the guidance, Patrik. I understand Q1 is always the least important quarter within the year, but I'm also looking at the comps, I mean the comps in Q1 were relatively easy and will get a bit or become a bit tougher in the remainder of the year. Was that also a reason which made you retain the guidance despite the acquisition of Redshift, although Redshift only has a mid-single-digit revenue contribution, but still it would be something that strikes my mind? Then secondly, why do you -- why did you put Solibri in the books of the Design segment? And I think the overall contribution last year must have been around EUR 2 million. Can you share with us the growth of Solibri year-over-year in the first quarter '19 so what would be the underlying growth of the Design segment ex Solibri? And lastly on the operating cash flow. I think you had also some tailwind from the adoption of IFRS 16, if I did the math correctly, it was a tailwind of EUR 2.4 million. So growth was still strong, but around rather 21% adjusted for this effect instead of the reported 30%. Is that a fair way to look at things from your perspective?

[Patrik Heider]

So first of all, thank you for the questions, Knut. And, I mean, for the first one the comparables to last year, yes, definitely. I mean, as you know, already one main driver is the Design segment and there we see always the annual of the BAU. And definitely, in the Design segment, the BAU exhibition definitely contributed also to this segment. And as you remember last year, we were also nicely growing in the first quarter, but not as strong and this definitely true. We always have now these problems with the quarters and the seasonality of the revenues. But again, it doesn't mean that we go into the negative for the next 3 quarters. So yes, this is why we don't see any idea of increasing the margin -- increasing the guidance now, and definitely we will do if we see wonderful Q2 again. For the Design segment, the comparables and in the Solibri, this has all to do with the management. And we also announced in the last call that we had an organizational change and it definitely fits better to the Design segment and Viktor who is leading this Design segment. And it's already very closely together with Graphisoft spend in terms of cross-selling and co-selling and sharing the channels. And this is why we thought it makes sense from a management leadership perspective to get even more. For the figure, and I'm now excusing because otherwise I tell you something which is not true. I only can tell you that Solibri is nicely growing again. But definitely we'll give you afterwards...

[Stefanie Zimmermann]

Yes. The revenue figures for Q1, we are a little bit more than EUR 2 million that's what you expected. Absolutely right.

[Patrik Heider]

Exactly. Hopefully that answers your question, but I only see it from the perspective Solibri is nicely growing and continue to grow. And obviously we don't see any need to really report that excluding this effect or this is effect because already it's very complicated this year with the IFRS 16 left and right. And then for the IFRS 16, for your last question, it's a fair way how you saw it. And I can confirm your view. And overall, we will see an impact on EBITDA, which is really in that range 2% to 2.5%, which leads us to round about EUR 13 million on a yearly level.

[Operator]

The next question is from Martin Jungfleisch of Kepler Cheuvreux.

[Martin Jungfleisch, Junior Equity Research Analyst]

I have two questions, if I may. The first one is on the Build segment. If I'm correct, the benefits on the price increases for Bluebeam should fade-out in the second quarter. Should we then expect a growth rate in the Build segment to go down slightly? Or are you comfortable with the current revenue growth run rate? And the second question is on margins. You noted that M&A costs as well as an increase in personnel costs were negatively affecting margins in Q1. Just to confirm your previous comments, is it fair to assume a 15% to 16% EBITDA margin, excluding IFRS 16 in the Manage segment for this year and something like 20% for the next year or so? In addition to question on personnel cost is also -- if this was just driven by the number of employees? Or do you also see increased pressure on wages on your margins?

[Patrik Heider]

Yes. Thank you very much, Martin, for the questions. For the Build segment, you're absolutely correct. The price increase took place in Q1 last year and this is why we're seeing definitely. And we already guided in our annual report this Build segment in the high teens and Bluebeam in the high teens of 18% to 20%. So your view is absolutely correct. And you could fairly cool down or you could -- you could see definitely nice growth rate by coming a bit down from that perspective compared to Q1. Your view on the Manage segment margin is also correct. This is definitely, I mean, the one-off effect of the acquisition costs hit us hard in the -- in Q1, but in the overall view, 15% to 16% without -- excluding the IFRS 16 impact is definitely true and fair to see it and also an increase of margin to the 20% level and that's what we proved also years ago with Bluebeam, after an investment here is also fair to see it. The full year impact of employee staffing, how we call it, is definitely driven by the number of people. I mean we added to the portfolio only from that perspective 190 FTEs. And this is what obviously you've hit fully in Q1. I remember when Chandra had that question in the last call that is exactly this one, the full year impact of people you hire from Q2 to Q4, you don't have them in the Q1 this year and -- you have them in Q1 this year as an impact. So it's only that a few number of people and the FTEs.

[Operator]

The next question is from Dustin Mildner of Pareto Securities.

[Dustin Mildner, Analyst]

When I have a look at your revenue distribution by geography, I see that, yes, Germany grew -- has grown somewhat less than the other regions and interestingly, you spoke of U.K. and Scandinavia showing very strong growth partly related to BIM regulation already in place. So I was just wondering with BIM regulation becoming effective in Germany in 2020, if I'm correct, to what extents do you expect changes to growth rate in Germany? And do we expect this to have -- have to provide some tailwind?

[Patrik Heider]

Thank you for the question. So we are really happy to see Germany back in this range. I mean when you remember the figures end of last year, the last quarter, so we were in the high single-digit growth in Germany. And we're really happy to see now again a clear double-digit growth and within our organic growth rate and you need to also consider our market position in Germany. I mean, we are market leader in Germany with -- in the Design segment, clearly the market leader with high market shares. And this is nicely when you grow in such pace, you really add something to the portfolio. And you also mentioned the BIM regulations. I need to remind that from 2017, the BIM regulations on the European base, they're still a directive. In 2020, they become a hard law. Do we see then a stronger growth in Germany or even leading to a hockey stick development? No, that's what we wouldn't see. We are happy to see Germany in this growth range in the organic corridor. 13% to 15% is wonderful growth for Germany. And all in all, in Europe, we see the strongest markets and growth. And you also mentioned it in U.K. and the Scandinavian countries, the Nordic countries, no surprise for us because they are far more progressed than the Germans, for example, in terms of BIM execution. So when you see a market like the U.K., you have a transformation rate of 3D users from 2D to 3D users in the Design segment of more than 55%. Whereas in Germany, you only have maybe 40% in 3D applications. So all in all, we see really U.K. and Nordics is no surprise for us because they are really best executing the BIM regulations, also to the -- same to the U.S., but we are also really happy to see the German market again back in double-digit growth rate. And for guidance, I would say it's fair enough we would be happy to see them remaining in this area.

[Operator]

The next question is from Andreas Wolf of Warburg Research.

[Andreas Wolf, Research Analyst]

It's Andreas Wolf, Warburg Research. A couple of questions from my side. So the first one would be on Bluebeam/PlanGrid. My question would be, to what extent this PlanGrid comparable to Bluebeam? The second is on the Manage segment. You highlighted that the Manage segment will be acute area of growth going forward. Is it right to assume that the growth focus will be mainly on technological Manage -- management instead of admin, how will you emphasize these 2 directions of Manage? Then the third question is on the multimedia segment, given the takeover that you made there at band level, how should we see this segment strategically? To what extent is it possible to further integrate this segment and its solutions into the value chain of your construction-related product? And the last question, if I may, is on Germany and the BAU trade fair. Is it right to assume that the growth acceleration in Germany was mainly to the BAU trade fair and this was a "positive one" and growth will probably be somewhat slower in the upcoming quarters in this region?

[Patrik Heider]

Thank you, Andreas, for the questions. The first one Bluebeam and PlanGrid. Definitely they are both playing in the world of the CDE platforms. I mean, you also could -- also include here the names like it's Viewpoint, it's Aconex, it's Procore, it's PlanGrid and it's Bluebeam. And every one of those players have a certain niche of functionalities and the certain strengths at the moment. Bluebeam is definitely the best solution when it comes to documentation collaboration. Whereas, for example, Aconex is the one who is really the strongest one in time management. PlanGrid, I would say, is definitely comparable to the Bluebeam solution together with Procore. They may be the most redundant, I would say, but also which was surprising for us, I already mentioned that in my last call, they had a high redundancy to the already existing out of this 360 solution. So what they need to do in the first instance to figure out what's the redundancy between their solutions. And this is why we look, of course, to that acquisition and the combination of it, but we don't see any impact so far for the moment in the market. The second one is the Manage segment. It's definitely -- hopefully, I got your question right. If not, we should talk after the call again about that one. But we definitely see everything what we do there, if the model knowledge is needed. And this is why we increased efficiency in the overall value chain of AEC. And this is why we will invest further into a platform for the Manage segment. And it's all about efficiency. I mean, all the CFOs like me, we have a big profit and loss line called building costs, and we want to make sure we've smart building optimization that this cost line is really efficiently used in the world of organization and other thing. And that will be a high pressure in the future for all of us and this is why it's often used from this perspective from CFO's and from organizations to increase efficiency. And definitely those investments will help us into the platform, building in this segment to increase our growth rate and you definitely -- as I already mentioned, you will see higher growth rates from next year's going on. In the multimedia segment, already Knut asked as well, and I think it was Knut. And definitely what we see is a nicer and even more valuable integration for AEC customers coming from that technology acquisition. So additionally, on top to the rendering solution what we already integrated in '14 that means that even nicer and better performance for the AEC customer. And that means, yes, of course, there is a potential to grow faster in the AEC part as well. That was a nice view as well on us, but it was not the only decision-making point that Maxon was allowed, and we approved that acquisition because it also helps them in their original industries like gaming, filming and broadcasting. And definitely, you will see nice growth rates. We always mentioned after we took over the remaining 30% from the former shareholders -- from the former founders that we want to accelerate growth here, and we're really impressed by that first year of our new management. I would say 3 quarters he is now in place. And it's -- by the way, this Redshift is not included in the Q1 figures. We're consolidating Redshift from Q2. And that means it's a nice growth already with a nice margin development because there are also acquisition costs included already in that segment. So we are really positive about that one. Your fourth question is concerning the BAU. Yes, definitely your view is right and confirmed. It always helps in the annual rate. It's always every 2 years the BAU, and it definitely helps the German market. And this is why your view is right, and you could consider in the Design segment in the German market definitely a positive impact coming from the BAU.

[Operator]

The next question is from Chandra Sriraman of MainFirst.

[Chandramouli Sriraman, Managing Director]

Congrats on another very strong quarter, Patrik. Just a couple from my side. I was a bit late so I'm not sure you already addressed this. Couple of years ago, there was some seasonality in Q2 and Q3 in Design because of the product release of Allplan. Is this now back to the usual Q2 release or something? Just I wanted to get a heads up on that. And number two is, in terms of your strategic projects, you have been investing for the last 3 years, including this year, so any update on that? And is there a plan to continue this? Should we assume that this is now the default assumption in terms of investments into this project going forward as well?

[Patrik Heider]

Thank you, Chandra. For your first question, I can make it hopefully easy. There's nothing special to be -- needs to be commented on the Allplan release Q2 or Q3, so it's really comparable to last year. Yes, I remember that also 2 years ago we had that, but it doesn't impact that at all so you could -- you should not consider something Allplan release in Q2 or Q3, so you're view is right. For the investments, what we always mention is a little bit our financial model behind at the Nemetschek Group. And the financial models tells us we really would like to prioritize on top line. And as long as we can drive this top line, we are going to invest into future top line opportunities. If we would see to come that down this top line to a normal range of 10% to 12% overall in revenues, we definitely would be able and also willing, of course, to increase the margin level to also even higher than 30%. So at the moment, we do it like this that we really see no any reason why top line should slow down in the next years. I would say 2 to 3 years is our view for the moment. And this is why we come up every year with the guidance of investments. Last year we announced EUR 10 million to EUR 12 million. We keep that stable for this year. But -- and also it shows already a success. I mean, driving a top line what we drive at the moment in Q1, definitely you need to do something right. And to do something right needs the right investment. So is it already paying off? Yes. And this is why we are really happy and we would like to have this financial model in place. And again, if we would -- that also means that our operational brand portfolio is really driving efficiency. So we really gained those investment means out of our brand portfolio, and that's the good financial model we have in place, and we are really happy to see this is paying off.

[Operator]

As there are no further questions, I would hand back to you.

[Patrik Heider]

Great. So thank you very much for your interest in -- on your ongoing interest and trust into the Nemetschek Group. And I'm really looking forward to drive Q2 as a successful quarter again. And you will see us in relevant roadshows or in the next call. Thank you very much. Have a good time.

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your attendance. This call has been concluded. You may disconnect.