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JDC Group AG
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[Audio Gap] represented by the CEO, Dr. Sebastian Grabmaier; and the CFO, Ralph Konrad. So the gentlemen will guide us through the presentation and the results shortly. After the presentation, we will move over to our Q&A session in which you will be allowed to place your questions directly to them. Having said this, I hand over to you, Dr. Grabmaier.
Thank you, Sarah, for the timing introduction. Yes, my name is Sebastian and together with Ralph, we founded the company more than 22 years ago, I'm responsible for strategy and the HR, IR, PR and also products. And yes, Ralph, as my economic husband basically yes. Here you go.
Yes. Hi, I'm Konrad, still responsible for IT operations, finance and our leading on and compliance department and happy to be here today to present our figures.
Yes. As you know, as JDC, we are a typical platform business by now. So taking the data of more than 500 product providers, we standardize the data, process it and then we make it visible in visualizing systems, either our own or we use the systems of our clients via an API structure. So we load up the data to the systems of our clients. And now we have more than 5 million contracts on the platform with a very nice growth, as we will show you a little bit later. And also keep on developing our tech stack of which we think is one of the leading in the market.
So our clients typically are not only individual agent of brokers, but more and more the banks, the insurance companies, exclusive sales organizations and via our smartphone application also have about 200,000 direct clients.
So to jump into some overview of figures in Q1, you could see we have [indiscernible] very nice growth rates. Turnover grew more than 22% or almost 22% to EUR 53.3 million, and that's really a very good mark now because for the first time, we could jump over the EUR 50 million threshold in quarter. With a very, very good Q4 in '23, as you might have known, is EUR 48 million and now for the first time, the platform generates EUR 53 million, more than EUR 50 million in turnover. And also, you can see that this is a very nice effect on EBITDA also in the first quarter that's normally not as profitable. So we have a plus of 28% EBITDA and are right on track of where we go in the year'24. And this -- the nice effect is that it comes from all sides of the business. It comes from IFAs, the major clients, also some banking business and also from advisory that's back on our growth trajectory.
So yes, if you look at the figures in a whole, you can see that revenues are up 21.6% from 4.8% in the first quarter 2023 to 53.3%. You can see that also the Advisory is growing next with Advisortech with a very stable growth of 22.6%. Advisory could grow almost 7% and gross profit grew nicely more than 20% from EUR 13 million to EUR 15.6 million. And EBITDA as up from EUR 3.2 million to EUR 4.1 million or 28%. And also, you can see down the line EBIT is now almost 40% up from EUR 1.8 million to EUR 2.5 million. So what we think is a very good start into the year 2024, which comes from all kinds of business.
On the next slide, you see the total development as product classes. You can see that insurance, that's the backbone of our business, more than 60% of our business is strong as usual, as we can say, it's up plus another 18%. You might remember last year, in the entire year, it was same gross figure is plus 19% of the entire year. Now it's another 18% plus up, which is quite a nice figure as we have a lot of contracts really sitting in the platform. So that's EUR 5.1 million more on top of the last year's quarter but also investment in financing is up with another EUR 4.4 million. That's a plus of 34%. And this is due to two facts. One is the inclusion of TopTen as a new platform in the JDC family. And the other is that, obviously, capital markets treat us all nicely and markets are up and with the market follow the investment volume and with the investment volume the commission that's trailing from this investment volumes.
So on the next page, you see then the distribution of our sales segments. You can see that you have -- okay, do we have it? It's top growth. Can we put it one more?
Yes, I switched the slides. I don't know why it doesn't work, again back. And to Slide 7 again. Can you see it -- can you see that Montega?
I just see Slide 6 still.
Yes. For me, it is composition of turnover growth and turnover split is Page 7 by now.
Okay. Then it's your connection, Sebastian. [indiscernible] and dependent on the wireless in the hotel. So I hope it will go better in some minutes.
[indiscernible] Invitation of the equity form and today it's a hot invitation as I think we are in the conference room, it's more than 30 degrees as there's no air condition running and also Internet is weak. So it's still the some challenge, yes. Okay.
Now we have Slide 7. Welcome to this, and you see that also here the turnover growth and turnover split shows you that we are up in all segments. As I said, IFA business with more than 16,000 IFAs here, business up more than 20%. Major customers are up almost 30% with a very nice growth rate. It's almost EUR 3 million, not advisory is up [at our phenom] companies where we have direct access to our customers is also up again for the second quarter in a row. We're happy to report this as we had quite some challenge there in the crisis times starting from the Q3 in '22.
So we can see that now our major customer segment is growing also in the importance for the entire group, like from less than 25%, it's for the first time now at more than 25%.
Okay. So you remember the last quarters, we always showed you a quarterly comparison, and we want to go ahead with this. If you look at the development quarter-by-quarter and focus the first quarter, you can see that after a very weak year 2023, a weak first quarter in the year 2023, we are back to a very normal development. The first quarter shows a growth of more than 20% compared to the previous year. And as Sebastian mentioned, it's driven by all product sectors, it's insurance and investments, it's IFAs and major [ companies ]. Currently, we cannot see or identify any external effects that would contradict the typical trend. So we expect the year to develop very normally. A strong first quarter will be followed by 2 weaker quarters and the fourth quarter will close the year with a typical year-end business in the year 2024.
Let's take a look into the individual segments. Advisortech segment posted its best first quarter since we founded the company more than 20 years ago now with revenues of almost EUR 50 million and EBITDA of EUR 4.2 million [puts be achieved]. And within these figures, TopTen has contributed -- on TopTen, our new transaction that we bought a year ago, which is first complicated in December 2023. So it's relevant for you to understand the figures. So within these figures, TopTen has contributed a turnover of EUR 4.5 million roughly, and an EBITDA of EUR 250,000, which is exactly according to our plan. The development in the cost basis is mainly driven by the consolidation of the TopTen Group. And if you would do a pro forma view you could only see inflationary effect in the cost basis. So we are very good in managing our costs at the moment. However, there is a clear pressure on personnel costs, it's I think market-wide new appointments are often made above the level of comparable positions, which puts cost pressure on the salary level of the existing team. I cannot put a figure on this, but we have to observe this [Germany-wide] development.
In the Advisory segment, we also see a very satisfying development, very satisfying for us. The segment achieved a growth of around 7% to revenue of EUR 8.7 million in the first quarter with a disproportionally high increase in gross profit. Gross profit increased by 12.5% and amounted EUR 3.0 million. Cost structure was remaining the same, except personal costs, same explanation as some seconds ago, the EBITDA increased by 10% to EUR 0.7 million. Here, we see a typical seasonal development as well, 2 weaker summer quarters will follow and the year will be ended by a strong fourth quarter. So development in the Advisory segment is on track as well.
Let's have a look at the cash flow statement for the first quarter. We started the year with cash and cash equivalents of EUR 26.4 million, which is a plus of almost EUR 10 million compared to the previous year. And the cash flow from operating activities amounted to EUR 4 million. So on the level of the previous quarter. Normally one would expect that operating cash flow would increase within a rising EBITDA. So you might question yourself, why is the operational cash flow in Q1, not stronger than in the previous one? And the explanation is the very good year-end business in the fourth quarter 2022 -- 2023, sorry. And this year-end business led to the effect that our commission liabilities to the broker increased by almost EUR 2 million means that cash in from new business was in the fourth quarter 2023 and cash out to the brokers for this year-end business, mainly was in January so in the first quarter 2024. And this is an effect on the quarterly cash flow in the first quarter 2024.
Cash flow from investment activities amounted to minus EUR 3.4 million, which is EUR 2.4 million more than in 2023, mainly influenced by [indiscernible] investment, the capital costs were significantly higher than in the previous year. And Sebastian will give you some more information how the things go as [at Summits ] later on. Cash flow from financing activities amounts minus EUR 1.5 million. And the reason for this increase is our share buyback program, which will give you some more information also later on. The quarter ended with a cash balance of approximately EUR 26 million, and cash on hand last Friday was EUR 29.2 million. Some more key performance figure that we show you every quarter.
They also developed very nicely. The new orders peaked around at around 38,000 that plus of an increase of 12% compared to the previous year. The number of initiated contract transfers even reached a level of more than 150,000 in just 1 quarter, which is an increase of almost 60%, very impressive number again. And finally, you might remember, 1 year ago with the earnings call for the first quarter of 2023, we reported that the annual net premium on the JDC platform would soon reach EUR 1 billion. And now 12 months later, again, we have recently reached these EUR 1.2 billion, which is a plus of more than 20% in only 12 months, only 1 year.
For me, this is a very impressive number because I have to emphasize this once again. EUR 200 million more in annual net premium, more insurance portfolios, means some 100,000 additional contracts, which will reliably pay recurring portfolio of patients for many years to come starting now. So without any bad debt losses, without any collection work from our side, if you look at the development of the annual net premium on the JDC platform, you can look how the future will go. So that is the basis for our future growth. Few more information about share price and the bonds. The share price is developing very nicely and positively and [was '24] today morning after our press release, which gave us a smile at the beginning of our investor conference. The market cap is now EUR 300 million, a little bit above. And 3 months ago, we had EUR 280 million and gave an outlook that the market capitalization will soon reach EUR 300 million. So we are happy to be there 3 months later.
We bought back 144,000 shares with our share buyback program and paid an average price of EUR 19.83, around -- a reminder for you, the share buyback program runs until May 15, which is end of this week means this Friday, and I will give you some more information in our spotlights. The new bond is valued at EUR 20 million still. It's trading very stable at 104%. It was closed trading yesterday and this shows the trust of the bondholders in the development of yes, of our group. And yes, many things for this trust.
The shareholder structure has remained unchanged since Provinzial joined the company, our own shares now amount to 1% of the share capital. And before I hand over to Sebastian for the spotlights, I would like to summarize that, all in all, we are very happy with the development of our group. We are now -- we now have been on a stable growth path for many years now. And this growth path can be influenced by the environment at some times, but it's never broken since. And the reason is -- at first, that we very diligently collect more contracts day by day onto our platform. The second is that we combine this with a good cost discipline.
In our management meetings we discussed about every EUR
5,000 tickets. So yes, we have very long management meetings cost, also are very important for us. And we are still able to make reasonable M&A transactions. With [TopTen] was the last one. And in the meantime, we are often able to pay these M&A transactions out of our operational cash or our cash on hand. So this, in total, is a very good mix in my opinion, to provide us with a reliable growth in the coming years. Sebastian?
Yes. So we have some highlights for you. So we can give you as a spotlight a small glimpse into the JDC platform [Summit], that conference that we hold for C level of insurance companies. And we've also seen a little video also some of our third in the Holding Board, Markus Rex. And we have a slide on efficiency gains by operations improvements within JDC. And we have a slide on Summitas. We are content with the development of our subsidiary, a joint venture company with both Bank Capital and Great West Canada Life. And then Ralph gives you some information on the successful share buyback program.
Yes, let's start with the platform Summit. So once a year, we invite 80 to 100 C-level Board members of insurance companies, Head of Broker business. And this is also always in this [indiscernible] what's called the [Coorhouse]. It's a conference call. And Ralph, maybe you start with the video.
[Presentation]
Okay. Small glimpse of what we do is we're not working in the office, main speaker was Mr. Ishina was the Head of the Munich Security Council for more than 20 years, speaking about the political environment, which is also important for capital markets. So we jump one slide. We know this one.
Okay. So let's give you some more spotlight on operations at JDC. You might remember that in the last earnings call, we showed you the development of our cost income ratio. So it's a relation between total cost and our gross margin, and we showed you that the figure declined from 105% in 2018 to 90% in 2023. The key for further improving this indicator is operational excellence. And when we look at a typical life cycle, of any new idea, then product or process. We see these typical J curve, after the innovation. The product is introduced into the market. And if sales volume is high enough, then you have to focus operational excellence. And this is where we are today. And this one of our most important tasks and the ones we work very hard on. You see the figures in the table, customer data sets on the platform increased by 15% or 400,000. The contract data sets on the platform increased by 20% or 700,000 and the documents processed in 1 quarter was 1.25 million pieces, which is 25% more than the first quarter last year. And nevertheless, the number of full-time employees, full-time equivalents grew only by 1.5%. This is an impressive development in my opinion. But I don't want to hide the fact that one reason is also the difficult job environment. We have many open positions. But nevertheless, we were managed -- we were able to manage this increased volume and thanks to automation and constant optimization with virtually the same team. So big thank to our JDC team for their excellent work.
Yes. One slide on Summitas, you can see that we are very happy that our new CEO, [indiscernible] Victa is now on board. He started finally March 15 now and will take over operations. So we're happy about the development because the M&A team was intact for the last 6 months, and they are quite diligent in going after all these -- the full pipeline of transactions. So we could already conclude 10 transactions until end of Q1. So collecting revenues of over EUR 10 million and EBITDA in Summitas of EUR 2.5 million. And again, these Summitas has an exclusive service contract with the JDC platform. So this EUR 10 million will grow to the platform over time. For this year, we plan with about EUR 3.5 million of this 10 will already be in the platform this year. And then next year, we'll see all of this EUR 10 million. And then we have normal like customer contracts, and we might be earning EUR 1 million out of this EUR 10 million for the JDC platform. So we have a full pipeline. So there's more than 12 transaction expected for the full year in 2024.
And we still hope to do also a bigger one. The first 10 were rather small one. You see that by the comparison between turnover and transaction size. So it's on average EUR 1 million in turnover, and this corresponds to about 250,000 in earnings each. So we're happy about this development. So the team is complete and now you can expect one transaction every month and hopefully a bigger one also.
Okay. Finally, as mentioned some information about our share buyback program, which will end this Friday, the program was limited to 350,000 shares and a total purchase price of EUR 5 million. Until Friday, we will probably buy back 155,000 to 160,000 shares and invest around EUR 3.3 million or EUR 3.4 million, which is a good result for us as a company and for our shareholders as well. Many of you will now ask whether there is a new share buyback program. I can say that a decision on this has not yet been made. Basically, we try to allocate our capital in the most efficient way. If the cash flows continue to develop positively as they did in the last years. we, will continue to invest primarily into two areas. The first is IT. Our platform still has a lot of potential. We have a lot of ideas and the realization cost a lot of money. And the second is still M&A. We have a very good experience with our transactions. And if we back test our transactions, they are all very positive for us. So we want to go on there and would like to invest in further direct brokerage companies beside our investment into the Summitas Group.
So it's the same area, the same two areas for the last years. It's the same strategy since years. And if additional liquidity is available or left then this could flow into a share buyback program, which we have to discuss in the future.
So some words on the guidance. We are very comfortable with respect to what we told you after the full year figures last year, you see we guided a turnover of EUR 205 million to EUR 220 million with an EBITDA ranging from EUR 14.5 million to EUR 16 million. And with the result of Q1, you see it's very well on track with a turnover of EUR 53.3 million, you see that this is quite comfortable. We look to the end of the year. And also EBITDA is very comfortable with a very good Q1, the best Q1 we ever had. We are also on track reaching the EBITDA numbers we gave you. Also, our goals in '24, we want to integrate the TopTen Group. Austria already had the merger done. It's still waiting to be inscribed in the register -- registry and also the mergers of both the portfolio management company, which is due next month and also the investment tool. That's all on track. So we will have this done until August to the latest, so we can have the full figures consolidated in the year '24.
You will also see that Summitas will provide the first turnovers to the platform. We still hope there might be a bigger transaction. So this could also be very relevant. Also, we have now as we stretched out to the bank insurance market and also the insurance companies themselves. Where we focus also on smaller IFAs that means these 16,000 brokers that give us the strong base in the market. We can leverage the experience from the major customers and roll this out to the whole number of clients and intermediary clients in the IFA segment.
Yes, Ralph told us some on our own development in IT, but we also have more and more insurance companies that want to benefit from our IP developments, especially with our subsidiary, Morgan & Morgan. Yes. And we also -- Ralph showed you what this means for the IT platform. We have the first little project in -- where we use AI to read our documents with more diligence and have self-learning systems, and we can replace more and more employees using technology or modern technologies to read out our documents. So yes, I know AI is a big buzzword out there. And right now we found the first very beneficiary, first projects by stepping us in our operations.
And also, Ralph showed this, the further reductions of cost per contract by growing the company at the same platform cost, we will see economies of scale. And all these goals are very good on track. So as a management, we're very happy with the development of the company in the first few months. All right. Be happy to take any questions you might have. And Sara, you tell us how this works.
Thank you so much. And yes, thank you for your presentation and congrats on the results. So we'll now move over to our Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] This is what Roland already has done. So this question is please tell us whether and where you can gain significant market share in the future, in which area can the next wave of growth come from besides Summitas and onboarding of Sparkassen and [indiscernible].
Yes, maybe I'll take the rest from Ralph. So yes, so obviously, we have quite a nice market share in the broker market, like 16,000 of these 30-whatever, 7,000 bookers have a contract with us already. So check the box on the broker market, which is about 25% to 30% in life, 25% and in P&C. So we have a strong base there. In the banking area. So the banks have -- depends what product group also between 20% and 30% of market share. We have the strongholds, both with the savings banking organizations and also the corporative banking groups. And then we have to execute on that. But then the big field is still the tight agent networks of the insurance companies themselves. You might have seen we acquired [ Gothaer ] as a customer, as a top 15 insurer. Just merged with Barmenia. So no surprise Barmenia agencies will most likely use our platform very soon as well.
But then there's a number of very big insurers out there that could use the 360-degree view on their client portfolios also with the agencies. And this is the next big thing out there that also these insurers know that digitization will not stop on the door of agencies, but also a customer that is maybe a banking customer that's used to also have an aggregate view of their insurance contracts will then also ask this from the agents, and this is what we're preparing.
So yes, we will approach and focus on the full number of private insurance companies that could become our customers in the time to come. And there's a pipeline out there with some projects, and I hope that this will also provide some good news.
All right. The other question is did you lose tenders?
I think we can combine this question with the next ones, he asks if we lose tenders and if we are still bidding for bigger contracts? And if there are many tenders outside? So of course, you lose a tender time by time, but the important message is that most of the tenders 90% plus that we are bidding is where we sign contracts still. So there's competition in the market, but the competition is not as strong as it could be. And the reason is that we invest so many -- so much money into our platform and that our technological edges there. So -- we still win most of the tenders, 90% plus. And yes, we are bidding for tenders, for contracts with a relevant size. Maybe you will learn something about this in the short-term future.
And Sebastian already answered, there are still big tenders to come because most of the tight agent networks of the insurance companies have a big need to have a 360-degree view on their customers, and that's what -- exactly what JDC can offer as a technological partner to the insurers. So this will be the next big thing for JDC or for platforms like JDC.
There's the saying we want to be the last, not the first. For example, we lost 30 corporative banks to Clark once, I don't know, 5, 6 years ago. But now, obviously, we won the contract for the next 10 years because obviously, there was some nonperformance in between. And then we almost lost the [indiscernible] to hyper port that was very close. But in the end, we got the 10-year deal. So the answer is yes. But in the end, we could turn it around and we have not lost a very big client in the long run yet. I think that's it.
And then we received a question prior to this call. So it's concerning the acquisition. So what characteristics should the targets have?
I don't see the -- targets for Summitas or for us. Well, the good thing is like as you see with TopTen or [indiscernible] like we like platform targets that are -- have the same business model like we have, like B2B2C, that means platforms that have intermediaries that intend or service end clients, there's a number out there still that could be a very good combination -- a business combination for us because we still think we have the leading tech stack in insurance, and there's many out there that are -- have other focus or product groups.
So this is really interesting. And then also on the private line side, where there's not that fierce competition that we see in the commercial broker side, there's interesting brokers out there also for occupational pension that could be a target for JDC direct. For the commercial side, we go via Summitas, that's the aim because also the big targets out there price range above [ EUR 5,000 million ], then this is a clear target for our joint venture company.
So by now, there are no questions left. So at this point, just a quick reminder, if there's still open topics, just let us know. And I guess, we wait a couple of seconds, if maybe further questions show up. And then we have Edwin so he is in audio line. So you can unmute yourself and ask your questions.
A couple of questions from my side. So if you look at the organic growth. I think, it is something around 11%. Is that right? If I take out the TopTen?
Well, yeah.
And then TopTen contributed EUR 4.5 million turnover?
Yes.
And was there also already growth in the TopTen revenues?
It's a good question. You don't know exactly how it was last year.
Well, Yes, I think there was a growth in the TopTen numbers because the markets are a good as Sebastian said and 90% of the TopTen's turnover is from trailer fees from mutual funds. So there must be a growth, but don't have the exact numbers.
It is safe to assume that we are more or less at EUR 18 million revenue contribution for TopTen this year?
Should be more.
Additional Edwin to last year's, right? So last year, there was a little bit more than EUR 3 million already consolidated in the chamber, and then it will be another EUR 18 million plus.
And then if we look at the margin side, so I really expect a little bit lower margins actually because the gross margins are a little bit lower than lower margins have where we're getting. And if I look at gross margin, it goes from 28.1% to 27.8% -- Sorry the other way around from 27.8% to 28.1%. And it's not that much -- is that 28%, is that more or less something we can help with for the rest of the year as well?
You have to take into account, Edwin, that the recurring margins are a little bit higher than the new business margin. So you will see Q4 with a little bit lower margins and then Q1 with a little bit higher margins, but this will even out over the year. So yes, I think that's the answer.
Okay. And in terms of seasonality, we should, let's say, expect more or less the same decision in the previous year. So Q1, strong Q2 and Q3 weaker and, let's say, Q4, again, very strong.
Like in '23, but -- not like in '23, but compared to the years 2020, '21, '22, that's the normal move and flow.
Okay and then we should see the more or less the same growth rates year-on-year in the coming quarter.
Yes, that's the correct way to look at it. So we expect the same growth rates quarter-over-quarter. So yes, the quarter in absolute terms will be a little bit lower in Q2, Q3, but the growth rate. Well, we don't know it yet, but we think it could be quite similar to what we see now.
The last one, I'll stop. On the major clients, is there -- is there any news around Provinzial [indiscernible] Albatros, RNV, well maybe can give a little bit of explanation how they are doing?
Well, we see -- you see that all of them are growing. We could wish for some more speed in the growth, obviously. But then we already have now the 175,000 contract for the Provinzial Savings Bank. So this is like slowly but surely picking up speed. We could wish more and more speed with VKB and SV savings banks and all through the corporate banks. But overall, we are as low as we planned. Let's put like this Ralph, right.
Yes, in this major clients business, no news is good news. That means that everybody is more or less happy with the platform and is working day by day with it and that's where we are. And again, we are working on bigger tenders, and we think we can give some news in the short-term future.
We have two more, I think, Sarah, right in the chat?
Absolutely. In the meantime, we received two further questions in our chat box. So the first one is you wrote that you see a positive trend in the real estate business compared to 2021 approximately, where was the low and where is it now?
So I think the low quite exactly was December '22, right? So that was where the energy prices went to the roof, the interest rates went to the roof, and nobody in retail bought real estate, there was almost no market in '23. There was -- you saw that prices did not go back much, but in the end, there was no transactions when people -- sellers would hold to the real estate if they would not have to be forced into a fire sale. So -- and in retail, we just see now in Q2, there are -- the figures are back on to like beginning '22, '21 numbers as there is a lot of liquidity piling up with retail clients, and this has to go somewhere. It did go already in capital markets a little bit, but then real estate is -- it's a good choice. Actually, the entire renewable business, alternative investment schemes are sold out, more or less, so money goes into real estate.
All right. And the last question by now, what will you do with the acquired shares of the share buyback? Is a cancellation, a possibility? Or could they be sold to Provinzial again?
Maybe I can answer this question. The answer is we have all possibilities, we are allowed to cancel the shares or to sell the shares as we decide with the approval of our Supervisory Board I don't think that it makes sense to sell the shares again to Provinzial because they have now a threshold of 6% like VKB, that's where they feel comfortable. That's where we feel comfortable. We don't want to have the insurers to have too much influence. So we don't need the money right now. So the cancellation is possible. We can also use the shares to pay some M&A builds. So no -- not decided yet.
Okay. So by now, there are no questions left No. So there, we come to the end of today's earnings call. So thank you, everyone, for joining and your shown interest and for all your questions. So should further questions arise at a later time, please feel free to contact Investor Relations. And a big thank you also to you, Sebastian and Ralph for your presentation and the time you took today. So from my side, I wish you all a lovely remaining and happy week and hand over again to Sebastian for some final remarks.
Yes. Thank you very much for your trust. We saw some bad times when there was outward crisis now. We are back to normal. We are back to the growth rates we promised. So we want to grow 20% in the quarters to come. And also, we said we do what we say, we say what we do and now we see -- yes, we can harvest whatever we saw the last years. And yes, so bear with us, we're happy about these results, and there's nice results to come. We are very confident for this year, '24 and also what we told you about '25. There's EUR 250 million figure for '25 is very much in region, very visible, also with like a EUR 20 million EBITDA range that we gave you already in '22. So overall, we're very happy with this development. So bear with us, and thank you for your trust and your attention. Thank you very much.
Bye-bye.