Deutsche EuroShop AG

XETRA:DEQ

Earnings Call Transcript 2018-Q2

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. I'm Stewart, your Chorus Call operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining Deutsche EuroShop Conference Call Half Year Financial Report 2018. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Wilhelm Wellner. Please go ahead.

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Ladies and gentlemen, good morning from Hamburg. This is Wilhelm Wellner speaking, and today, it's my pleasure to present you our results for the first half year of 2018. I'm here together with my colleague, Olaf Borkers; and Patrick Kiss, our Head of IR. As introduction, I would like to start with operation. That is the retail turnover of our tenants and the split up by retail segments. You'll find that on Slide 2. Starting with the overall picture. We have seen a minus of 1.1% for the absolute retail turnover of the portfolio, with an increase of 1.2% in our foreign centers and a decrease of 1.7% in Germany. On a like-for-like basis, our retailers in the first 6 months are plus of 1.3% abroad, and a minus of 2% in Germany, and that's a total of minus 1.4% for our portfolio on a like-for-like basis. The performances of the various segments within our portfolio were as follows: in our German centers, and again on a like-for-like basis, services saw plus of 2.6%; and food catering in the slide plus 0.1%; while department stores, minus 4.3%; shoes and leather goods, minus 4.1%; general retail, minus 3.9%; and fashion, textile, minus 3%, performed rather weak. I strongly assume that the most important reason for these weak figures were the extreme weather conditions. After having a real hard and strong winter until end of March, the weather then quickly turned to uncommon and extreme summer conditions. For most part of Germany, it becomes evident that we have seen one of the hottest and driest summer in the last 100 years or so, and this made it, for example, rather difficult for the fashion retailers to sell us their spring and even part of the summer collection at decent conditions. And there was and until now, partially, simply, it's still too hard for many customers to go shopping. And if we look ahead a little bit, there's still no real end of site of this summer weather in many regions where we're present. This is also not the best sales environment for the actual autumn collection, which is already in the shops or is coming soon. So while most of us probably enjoy the very nice weather on a personal level, these extreme conditions are rather detrimental for many retail segments. Besides the weather effect, there were some special effects in the portfolio, which we have to consider. It should not be overvalued, but there was to be mentioned, for example, in our centers in HameIn and Magdeburg, some shop construction and releasing activities in connection with regular refurbishments also led to temporary decline in sales. And in Gdanks, we saw additional effects on sales coming, on the one hand, from a legally mandatory reduced number of Sunday openings, which started March, 2018; and on the other hand, from the opening of the new sizeable competitor in the catchment area, which naturally leads to some movements of sales, especially in the beginning. On the basis of these developments, our rate-to-sales ratio now stands at 9.4% after 9.1% year-end 2017.In parallel, and for the same reasoning as above, our customer frequencies in the first 6 months were also lower, we saw minus plus -- sorry, a minus 2% for Germany and a minus 0.9% for our international centers. In total, that corresponds to a decrease of 1.8% in footfall. We'll have to see the further development in the next months when the weather conditions should normalize.So let's go to the financials and start on Page 2 with the P&L. Our results in the first 6 months of 2018 look as expected. Revenues increased by 5.5% or EUR 5.8 million year-on-year, with a major effect coming from the acquisition of Olympia Brno, which has been included in the consolidated figures since end of March 2017. Operating and management costs were EUR 0.7 million higher than in the last 6 months of 2017, growing in line with the portfolio, and also due to some slightly higher maintenance and non-distributable ancillary costs in the first 6 months, and now amount to EUR 11.1 million and are fully in line with our budget. The NOI increased by 5.4% to now EUR 100.5 million. The other operating expenses were EUR 0.2 million lower than in the previous year, in the 6 months of the previous year. The decrease resulted from lower DD cost in respect of the acquisition projects. And the first half of last year, we had higher consultancy costs in connection with Olympia Brno. As a result, EBIT increased to EUR 98 million, which corresponds to a plus of 6%. And finance costs were at last year's level and now amount to minus EUR 19.9 million. The individual effects will be explained in a few moments when we come to the bridges. So all in all, EBT, excluding valuation, our result rose by 8% or EUR 5.8 million to now EUR 78.9 million, again, in particular, due to the addition of Brno to our portfolio and some interest savings -- interest rate cost savings. The valuation result of minus EUR 8.9 million, previous half year that was minus EUR 2.2 million, includes investment cost incurred in connection with our portfolio properties. In the second quarter, these investments were, as expected, comparably higher due to the start of our IT service and more beautification programs. In addition, we also had an extraordinary one-off effect in Q2 coming from the re-evaluation of our extension plans for our center in Gdansk. In the light of the current project of approval status, we have decided to refrain from the extension in its current big format, which led as a one-off to a write-down of some preparatory and development costs in an amount of EUR 5 million. We'll review the possibility of an adjusted but smaller and less complex extension option in order to improve the further position of the center in the market. Summarizing the picture, with cash tax of EUR 3.4 million, which are EUR 0.8 million higher compared to the first 6 months of 2017, and EUR 10.5 million deferred taxes to be compared with EUR 11.5 million last year. Consolidated profit came down by 1.7% to EUR 55.3 million. As just explained, such decrease was solely due to the valuation result. For our key figures, which you will find at the summary on Page 3, that means the following. First, in nominal terms, while as just stated, the consolidated profit came down. EPRA earnings nicely increased by 8.2% to now EUR 73.6 million, and also the FFO increased by 6.5% to now EUR 75.5 million. On a per-share basis, earnings came down by EUR 0.10 to EUR 0.89, I said before mainly influenced by the valuation result. However, EPRA earnings remained at EUR 1.19 per share, nearly on the prior year level, and the FFO per share declined slightly to EUR 0.03 -- by EUR 0.03 to now EUR 1.22. Here the dilution effect from the conversion of the convertible bond becomes visible. So you'll find the detailed calculation of the FFO and EPRA earnings on Slide 4 and 5.Let's come to our balance sheet on Page 6, and that looks as strong and conservative as you know it. Our asset base rose by EUR 53 million to EUR 4.7 billion compared to the last reporting end of the year 2017. This is primarily due to an increase in cash and cash equivalents by plus EUR 61.7 million. As of end of June 2018, financial liabilities stood at EUR 1.5 billion, EUR 8.6 million lower than at the end of 2017. Noncurrent deferred tax liabilities increased by EUR 10.8 million to EUR 450.6 million, mainly due to the regular tax depreciation of the asset. The redemption entitlements of third-party shareholders declined by EUR 1.1 million to EUR 336.4 million. And other current and noncurrent liabilities and provision increased by EUR 84.8 million. This was mainly due -- attributable to the liability of EUR 89.6 million for the distribution of the dividend for the financial year 2017, which was approved by our AGM end of June, and which was paid out only on the 3rd of July that is right after the reporting date. Total equity, including minorities, decreased by EUR 34.1 million due to the dividend payment. Our equity ratio is now at a strong 54.3%, and the consolidated LPP stands at 30.8%. For your additional information, after the payout of the dividend on 3rd of July, the LPP stands at 32.8%. And on a look-through basis, that is the LPP calculated fully proportionally according to the group share in all assets, independent whether they are consolidated or held at equity, LTV now stands at 32.9%, which is also a very reasonable number, and after the payment of the dividend, this look-through LPP stands at 35%.On Page 7, we'll give you some more information on our debt. Of our consolidated debt, some EUR 620 million become due in the next 5 years. We still see, as before, potential to some reductions of our interest cost over the next years. Currently, our consolidated debt gives an average interest rate of 2.74%. The average interest rate already came down significantly in the last years. Given the actual interest rate environment and quotations from banks, we can refinance our debt around 1.5% to 2% per annum. This number there was our forward cost. That's the number for Germany, and in CEE, we can refinance around 25 to 50 bps above that. Our weighted maturity for our loan portfolio now stands at 5.9 years. And on the next page, you'll find, as usual, a more detailed maturity profile and the corresponding interest rates. On the right-hand side, you'll find some contractually agreed prolongations and interest rate fixings, August numbers, including forward cost. As an example, you can see in the first line an amount of EUR 72 million for Dresden, which we closed at 1.63% for 10 years, including the cost of the forward agreement. This effect from Dresden will become visible in the P&L starting in Q4 of this year. In the table at the bottom of the slide, you will also see that the nonconsolidated loans offer, from today's point of view, some room for lower interest expenses, but not before 2020. Let's now move on to the bridges. Let's start on Page 9. And for the first 6 months of 2018, revenues came out at EUR 111.6 million. That's EUR 105.8 million in the first half of 2017. Olympia, as mentioned before, contributed EUR 5.4 million to this increase. The standing assets contributed another EUR 0.4 million, which is a plus of 0.4%. Let's go to the financial result and the respective bridge on Page 10. In absolute terms, the financial result deviated by only EUR 0.1 million from the previous year's numbers. Following the steps in this bridge from the left, you can see that the interest cost for the standing portfolio now amount to EUR 24.4 million, which is EUR 1.4 million lower than in the previous year's period. This is mainly due to loan repayments and the conversion of convertible bond and -- or in November 2017. Next, you can see the additional interest cost for Olympia, which amount -- in an amount of minus EUR 1.1 million, and the operational valuation result from the equities, as well as the contribution from the P&L relevant swaps was nearly unchanged, and the same is true from the minority profit share, which slightly increased by EUR 0.1 million. So all in all, financial result was minus EUR 19.9 million. Let's proceed now to the EBT bridge on Page 11. EBT decreased in total by EUR 1.2 million to now EUR 69.1 million. Major changes here came in from Olympia, which contributed positively, plus EUR 4.6 million. The standing assets accounted for another plus EUR 1.2 million. Such positive operational effects were overcompensated, as mentioned before, by the valuation result of minus EUR 7 million, which was -- which I just explained -- which was just explained in more detail before, and which mainly contained a special one-off effect from Galeria Baltycka in Poland. The contributions from the noninterest rate swap and the deferred taxes were unchanged. Finally, let's come to the profit bridge on the next page, which looks rather similar to the EBT bridge. Here, Olympia contributed positively EUR 4 million. The profit of operations of the standing assets improved by EUR 1.9 million, whereas the valuation result after tax contributed minus EUR 5.7 million in comparison to the first 6 months of last year. The non-efficient interest swaps were neutral. The other deferred taxes contributed minus EUR 1.1 million, and all these effects resulted in a total profit of EUR 55.3 million. These were the bridges for the first 6 months of 2018. Let's now come to our guidance, where we did not include any changes, as you can see on Slide 13. We anticipate revenues between EUR 220 million, EUR 224 million for this year, and for next year, revenues should increase to EUR 222 million and EUR 226 million. Earnings before interest and tax should come in between EUR 193 million and EUR 197 million this year and EUR 194 million and EUR 198 million next year. We expect earnings before tax and valuation to be within EUR 145 million and -- sorry, EUR 154 million and EUR 157 million this year and between EUR 158 million and EUR 161 million next year. FFO per share are expected to end between EUR 2.35 and EUR 2.39 this year, and EUR 2.40 and EUR 2.44 next year. For the total FFO, we forecast between EUR 145 million and EUR 148 million this year and EUR 148 million and EUR 151 million next year. So far to the numbers, let's now come to the outlook on the following page. Looking at the operations, we're currently rolling out our Mall Beautification and At Your Service programs, and this, especially in Dresden, Billstedt, Magdeburg, Rhein-Neckar-Zentrum and in Norderstedt. For some of these centers, we expect to finalize the improvements already in the fourth quarter of this year. For others, it will last into 2019. Some visualizations of the approved design studies to be implemented are already included in our Annual Report 2017, such in for those of you who are interested to see what we are doing there in practice.On the financing side, we're working on a refinancing of the total amount of around EUR 165 million, and we expect to sign this by end of this year. I said before, the banking market is still very positive, and we are confident to agree on attractive terms with the bank. Hence, looking forward, of course, we are happy to be able or work on that to increase our dividend to EUR 1.50 -- sorry, EUR 1.50 for this year, and we also plan to further increase the dividend to EUR 1.55 for next year. Thanks for listening, and I'm now happy to take your questions. Operator, please go ahead.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Thomas Effler from ODDO BHF.

[Thomas Effler, Analyst]

I have a question regarding the retail turnover. You mentioned already that July, and probably also, August were weak. Can we assume kind of similar figures in July and August, so even probably more declining retail revenues?

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

It's hard to judge for us on that. But we have seen extremely hot weather, and as you're based in Germany, you probably have experienced that as well in July or -- yes, in the first part of August. It cooled down now a little bit. But especially, in Hamburg, it gets hot again in the next day. So I think there will be some impact. However, then if weather normalizes, which it surely will do at some point in time, we don't know whether there's like a coop-up effect that people may be coming after sunny holiday and buy something more in the third quarter and fourth quarter, having saved some in summer time or whether this effect will not happen. So it's hard to judge, but I wouldn't expect a high revamp. It's really that this summer took away part of the turnover this year. This is my expectation, especially for the textile business, shoes and something like that. So that's why we're a little conservative also looking at the valuation, what's the turnover rent that we also get from the tenants, could look like this year.

[Thomas Effler, Analyst]

Okay. And second question regarding your Polish shopping center in Gdansk, you mentioned you were thinking kind of the extension plans. Can you give us more flavor what you -- what are your plans? Or I mean when you write down the EUR 5 million, what kind of CapEx you're planning or is it still not decided if you do it?

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes. So far, we had looked at rather big, but complex extension office center, which we don't think is feasible from today's point of view for various reasons. So as we still have the prod right next to our center, we have to now fully reevaluate how we could use this property going forward. And one idea could be to have some kind of big box setup with 2, 3 bigger anchors that are attractive for that shopping center and that region. But as we are very early stage looking at that, there are various scenarios, so we can't give you any numbers, something like that. So we have to fully new -- evaluate on that, and we have to change the building permit scheme again for that, so it's too early looking into that.

[Operator]

Next question is from the line of Georg Kanders from Bankhaus Lampe.

[Georg Kanders, Investment Analyst]

My question is also on this -- but from your answer, I got the impression that it does not accelerate the process that you would get some proceed from extending the part of the building?

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes, there are 2 effects. I mean, if we now look into a complex solution, that is if you probably have listened to us earlier that there's an underground stream that we would have to relocate. We don't need to do that, which is speeding up things. On the other hand, we have to start with a new concept and ask for a new building permit procedure. So it's not speeding up, but it makes it probably -- it gives a ground to look at that from a different angle and come up with a few little solution probably, yes. Because, I mean, there were so many influence that the building permit law changed again in Poland. So for the big solution, if I may call it a big solution, the time would have extended even further development time. Construction costs have increased substantially over the last months. So there were many impacts. As we said, this bigger complex solution is not feasible anymore from today's point of view. Let's switch to another solution. But it will not be more speedy, but we still consider what to do with this plot. But maybe I should add, of course, there were a lot of tenants in our center, which is performing fine, which wanted to grow. So we'll, of course, proceed with those tenants, finding bigger space for them within the center, and then eliminating some of the weaker tenants to make sure that our good performing, bigger tenants that want to grow get the space. So it's nothing dramatic. We, of course, are not happy about that, but we developed a center, and its concept further even without that extension.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Jochen Schmitt from Metzler.

[Jochen Schmitt, Research Analyst]

I have 2 questions. The first one, could you give an update about rental contract negotiations and the re-letting conditions measured by the average rent change compared to the previous contract in case that the tenant stays in your center? Maybe a bit difficult to answer it in one precise figure, but nevertheless, could you give some flavor here? And the second question on H&M, have they approached you in recent months regarding their shops in your centers addressing their letting contract? These are my questions.

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Let's start with the first one, which is really a little tricky because it depends. I mean, you have contracts where you can nicely increase rents, others, where you probably would have to give in. But to make the number, and we've told you that the like-for-like growth was 0.4% or EUR 400,000 in the first half. This was mainly driven -- so in Germany, we, on average, keep the rents, which is plus/minus 0. And the growth came from abroad, yes. So especially in Gdansk, we saw higher rents. But again, it's an average number, and you would have to discuss it by segment even by individual tenants which we can't do, yes, but there are some shifting going on between the segments. On average, we saw 0.4% plus.

[Jochen Schmitt, Research Analyst]

Maybe a follow-up question here, if I may. This sounds a little bit more positive to me compared to your comments in the previous quarters. Am I right or...

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

We are not unhappy. Of course, we would like to see stronger growth. But given the situation, the competitive situation in the market, we are not unhappy to see those effects so far, yes. Having more or less stable rents, which is a slight growth, we don't get too excited about it, of course. But I think we can say, so far it's stable and a slight plus. And this -- from sounding, probably a little better than you've heard before. And sorry, and there was the H&M question, I don't want to forget that. No, we don't have some, let's say, approach strategic to, if I interpret your question correctly to discuss about all the H&M lease contracts in our portfolio, which are quite a lot, of course, but of course, we have contracts that come up. And there is, as usual before, maybe it's a little more fierce today, strong negotiations going on, but we don't have some strategic approach that I derive from your question. But of course, it's tough with the big anchor tenants at the moment, but having still very good centers, good locations. We have also some balance on our side, yes, but it's not easy.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Mihail Tonchev from Kempen.

[Mihail Tonchev, Analyst]

Just 2 questions from me. Back to Gdansk center, can you maybe share with us how the retail sales are trending up that particular center? Because obviously, we have, as you mentioned, the Sunday trading ban in Poland and you mentioned some competitive supply. Would you be able to share with us how it's doing?

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes, we could do because it's -- however, it's rather early to judge on the competitor, which just opened. I think it was mid or beginning of June, yes, so it's not really in the numbers. What we are seeing in general and also in Gdansk there was very hot weather, yes, so it's a mixture of effects, but we have seen a slight decrease of 2.7%., and again, this is weather. This is a little bit of the competitor, and this is a little bit from the Sunday openings in a general situation where all centers, on average, lost a bit -- a little bit, if that helps.

[Mihail Tonchev, Analyst]

Yes, that helps. And then the second one is just -- so your LTV is around 35%, still in the reasonable range. With that in mind, how is the acquisition pipeline looking at the moment?

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes, the one thing is in the ability to acquire something, so with this leverage, which is still at the low end of our range where we want to be in, a little bit 34% -- 35% to 45%, so there's an ability to look at an acquisition if it comes up and just for an averaged size center, put it that way, to sort of go forward just with debt. On the other hand, with the supply in the market and our appetite, of course, as always, we look into centers. There are some centers coming to the market, but we're still a little cautious because, at least, in Germany, we get the feeling that property prices have topped out, and we have just discussed about rent development. So we're very selectively looking what comes to the market, but there's nothing on the table where we deeper look into, yes. And of course, we look into something in the countries where we are in, so also abroad, but also Germany, yes. But maybe it's good a little bit at the moment to stay at the sideline, especially in Germany, and see how the prices develop and the behavior of some investors, yes. They probably come to the market and need to sell where we can be – where it would be an environment where the market has calmed down a little bit more than in comparison to the years before what we have seen.

[Operator]

The next question comes from the line of Andreas Pläsier from Warburg Research.

[Andreas Pläsier, Senior Analyst]

Mr. Wellner, one topic here, again, Gdansk. And is there a risk that there will be no extension in Gdansk, and what could be the impact in terms of write-out? And the second question also, what is your planned number in lettable space? I think your original plan was nearly an increase of 1/3. I think the first one, what aim is here in terms of lettable space?

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes. I mean, you said what is the risk of no extension. I mean, we own that plot, and we'll look whether we can do something which is reasonable and seasonable. And of course, as we rather start new on that, there's a chance that there will be no extension, but then we still own the plot, which we can use for something else or could give it to somebody else. And we have written it down so far to the market value of the development plot, so we don't expect any major effect from the historic investment cost for the bigger extension on top of what we have done, yes. So that should be straight in books, that should be. So I think, and that's why I've mentioned it earlier, we, of course, have changed our strategy for the internal develop, further development of the existing center, whereas giving the big anchor tenants, like the Zara's and so, and other peer group which is very big in Poland, the spaces they need to grow, so we act accordingly within the center, yes.

[Operator]

Next question is from the line of Andre Remke from Baader Bank.

[Andre Remke, Co]

So again, a question on Gdansk. So is there a risk of further valuation of the existing center when the site will not be expanded?

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Besides the normal market impacts, yes, for such valuation, I don't see some direct risk linked to that, yes, because we had this plot right next to it. We incurred some costs in relation to that. But the center itself, it's existing, it's performing, it's fully leased. Of course, there's a new competitor, but this is a normal market, let's say, impact, I would say. But no, I wouldn't see some extra effect coming from -- on the valuation of the center being derived from the not coming extension as we have planned it before.

[Andre Remke, Co]

Okay, that's clear. What is not crystal clear to me is really what was the final reason for a smaller or probably not an expansion. You mentioned construction costs, well, building permits, et cetera, et cetera, so what was the final reason now for the decision?

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes. I mean, you always review your projects going forward. And I mean, there were accumulating these effects like the new building permit procedure that needed to be implemented, like the quotation for the first construction cost that we got, and where we saw that they really have come up. There's more reluctance in the tenant market to grow as big as they were planning 2, 3 years before when we set that up. And we have big anchor tenants that wanted to grow, and some of them still want to grow, but probably not as big as they plan 2, 3 years ago. And if you sum all this up, and it's accumulated really in Q2. We did a big review, evaluated -- was still reasonable, feasible to follow that. And then we said out of those accumulated effects that we change the strategy. As I just mentioned before, restructure internally in the way that it's needed and look for a solution for the adjusted plots that we still own. So it was not a single event. But if you all sum that up, if you run your numbers, it needs to be feasible, and then we came to the conclusion it's not. It was summing up of some effects.

[Andre Remke, Co]

Okay, so it's clear. Then the last question on your other investment programs, you mentioned the 2 programs for the 5 centers. Can you remind me on the overall investment cost? I have in my mind EUR 25 million to EUR 30 million. Is that right, right assumption, or...

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes, but this is the total CapEx that we incurred for the full portfolio for the next 3, 3.5 years, and these include the special CapEx we do for the Mall Beautification and the At Your Service measurements, here. So 1/3 of that was roughly concerning those programs. And the other is for the normal CapEx that we had also the years before that is refurbishment of a roof or air conditioner or something like that.

[Andre Remke, Co]

Yes, and so 1/3, i.e., let's say, EUR 10 million or so, does this refer to the 5 centers, initial centers? And will these be rolled out over the next 1 or 2 years to the rest of the portfolio?

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes, it will be rolled out next more 3, maybe 3.5 years. If we try to speed that up, because once you decide to do those programs, you want to have them implemented as quickly as possible. But these relate to the centers in the portfolio that we have picked for those measurements, which are 8, maybe a little measure, another ninth one. So this amount relates to the -- to up to 9 centers. And in some centers, it's just EUR 1 million or EUR 2 million, and in others, it's probably up to EUR 6 million, EUR 7 million, yes? So it's not -- we're not doing the same in each of the centers.

[Andre Remke, Co]

But if you already have 9 centers for, let's say an average EUR 4 million, then you end up with EUR 30 million, EUR 40 million.

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes, but if you take this EUR 10 million times 3.5 years, it's roughly EUR 40 million, yes? It's not that really easy, this back-of-an-envelope calculation. You have detailed calculation for each and every center. Roughly, you could come to that number in that way.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Erik Salz from JPMorgan.

[Erik Salz, Analyst]

Some of the questions have been answered, but there's one remaining from my side. If I look at the FFO guidance and the FFO for the half year, which is EUR 75.5 million, I look at a maximum of EUR 148 million for the full year, which is in your guidance, is it not a little bit too conservative, and why the conservatism in that number?

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes, I mean, we have touched it a little earlier that we're not too unhappy to see the like-for-like rental growth at the moment, so it's probably a little above the mid-range of the guidance. So we'll feel we're still comfortable -- I mean, if this year proceeds like we have seen it, we probably would end up at the upper line of the guidance. While we are at the FFO level, let's say, still conservative is -- and where you say that it's probably a little too low, I've mentioned before the turnover development of mainly of the segments. And it's not a huge proportion, but we still have some visible proportion of turnover rent every years, and this can be estimated only end of the year. And with turnovers being a little bit depressed for some of the retailers, we're a little conservative on the expectations for the turnover rents, which are not so easy to calculate. So that's why we stay conservative and don't get too excited. But at the moment, we feel a little more at the upper end of the guidance, yes.

[Erik Salz, Analyst]

Right, sure. But can you give us a number in terms of turnover rent? What was that in 2017, for example, full year in euro millions?

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes, that was around EUR 2.6 million. But we also had years where it was just EUR 1 million, EUR 1.5 million. And it's also that -- it's difficult to calculate because, I mean, you have the fixed rent and the fixed rent increased with inflation, so you run behind them, the new turnover rent. I hope it's easy to understand what I said, yes. So whenever you open an indexation, it's harder to get the turnover rent, and that's why we're conservative whether we don't know whether we are at the lower end of such turnover numbers here -- or not. And EUR 1 million to EUR 2 million divided by the number of shares gives you probably the difference that you would expect to see or which we hope to achieve this year, but I mean, we were just telling you the numbers. I mean, there are reasons they should not be valued as excuses. But I mean, if you run through the centers or have been running through the centers in the heat, and you will see that people weren't just there, yes, in the amount. Maybe we were there. We have income and the tenant turnover, but not in the amounts that we would have normally expect. So this probably will be seen in the turnover numbers end of the year and the turnover and then it's -- but the numbers are not bad, put it that way, our financial numbers, yes. So we are positive on that.

[Erik Salz, Analyst]

Yes. And I mean, indeed, I mean, if you look at the half year, half year FFO, and you would -- I mean I understand that it may be too easy to simply double that if turnover rent only comes in, in the -- at the end of the year. But it was only EUR 2.6 or whatever million in total. Then again, it still feels that the top end of the guidance should be easily reached, but yes, that's just my interpretation of Slide #3. But okay, I understand your answer.

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes, we have a little other more variable income components. We have some more marketing, which is roughly EUR 1.5 million, and again, if the malls are empty, and these are short-term leases, yes, like for 2, 3, 4 weeks from ice cream to fruits to whatever. So also, that could be a little lower this year, which is another -- which is nothing dramatic, but it all ends up being a little more flexible. And so the malls were a little more empty this hot summer. We might see that at the end of the year. But again, maybe the message should be taken we are not negative here, yes. We had a good half, first half year, but we're still in a difficult environment, and we didn't want to get too excited, yes.

[Operator]

There are no further questions at this time, and I would like to hand the conference back to Mr. Wilhelm Wellner for closing comments. Please go ahead.

[Wilhelm Wellner, CEO & Member of Executive Board]

Yes, there are no further questions. Thank you for participating. We hope you had a nice hot summer, and please now go all back to the malls and shop. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now concluded. Yu may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for joining, and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.