Orange Belgium SA
XBRU:OBEL
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Orange Belgium SA
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Orange Financial results Q3 2021. [Operator Instructions]I would like to turn the call over to Mr. Koen Van Mol, Head of IR. Sir, please go ahead.
Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone. My name is Koen Van Mol, Head of Investor Relations at Orange Belgium. I would like to welcome you to our Q3 2021 earnings call. I hope you are all well. Here with me are Xavier Pichon, our CEO; and Antoine Chouc, our CFO.As usual, you should have received our financial communication this morning. In any case, you can also find all the relevant information on our corporate website. A Q&A session will follow right after Xavier and Antoine's introductory statements. And now I will leave the floor to Xavier.
Thank you, Koen. Hi, there, I hope you are safe. Thanks a lot for participating for -- in this earnings call for the third quarter of 2021. We are particularly happy and proud to announce this solid bunch of KPIs and figures, numbers you've seen in our press release. This is the result of a strong commercial performance, either on mobile and fixed, together with continuous cost management. With the improvement of our group portfolio, we are able to provide exceptional net adds in mobile. In addition, we continue to manage our internal cost and have set up several programs to improve our cost structure. I will let Antoine and later on give you more detail on this.But let's focus first on the operational highlights of this quarter. Maybe last August, we launched Orange TV light. Orange TV light makes it possible for our customers to stream up to 20 television channels with our set-top box to smart phones, tablets, PCs and TV. Today, 39% of all Belgium are already making use of streaming platform. That's, we believe, therefore, this is a strong demand for such a service. Orange TV Lite is available for all our convergent and our broadband-only customers at a very competitive price.In September, we launched, I guess, you've seen that a new and innovative B brand to answer the needs of digital-savvy customers, our new brand, hey!. It's 100% digital, which takes a participative approach, especially designed to meet the needs of ultra connected customers, whose life is completely digitally oriented. This brand will be pushed with limited marketing campaigns, purely digital service contract. We believe that about 20% of our customers are interested in the market in such an offer. We also recently launched Orange Money. After France, we are the second country in Europe that launches the services. Orange Money facilitates national and international money transfers. It is totally free mobile application, and customers can have a mobile wallet and instantly send money to Orange Money users in Belgium or Africa. It is open for every customer, regardless of the telecom operator. It does not allow only users to safely transfer money to other customers, especially abroad, but also to pay for phone recharge remotely. In October, we opened even if it's not -- it was not strictly in Q3, but last -- early October, we opened the Antwerp, the first Orange 5G Lab. This Lab permits companies to discover, test and develop new innovative use cases on 5G stand-alone network technology. The Lab is part of Orange international network of 7 other Labs across Europe, fostering collaboration and innovation. The new Orange 5G Lab consolidates the knowledge and expertise gathered from Orange Belgium on 5G industry 4.0 as well as the initial co-innovation use cases delivered in the Port of Antwerp to help develop and test new industry 4.0 use cases. The lab will demonstrate the capabilities of the new 5G standalone telecom standard, and how it help companies to innovate.As it comes to the operational results. So now let's go deeper into this. In terms of commercial performance, we can only be satisfied with the results of the quarter. Our cable customer base continues to grow, and we had 17,000 net adds during the quarter. We have reached 382,000 cable customer, which is an increase of more than 25% in comparison to last year. As during the former quarters, we see that Love Duo is about 1/3 of our gross adds, although our broadband-only offer Home continues to grow. The ARPO of our conversion customer decreased by 3.1% to EUR 73.1, mainly due to the discount that is given to our co-products in convergence.Our mobile customers -- customer base, sorry, has increased this quarter by 37,000 customers. The success of this increase is mainly following the increase of the data bundle in our Go Plus offer, which was already introduced in June. The success was supported by specific temporary promotion with a back-to-school campaign. The ARPO of our mobile customers remain stable to EUR 20.5. As it comes to the regulatory highlights, we still expect -- we're still expecting the spectrum auctions that will take place in the second quarter of '22, also taking into consideration the current ongoing constitution of the BIPT on all frequencies. Consequently, the existing licenses have been extended until March 22. We welcome the increase of the initial rates norm in Brussels, which will allow 5G deployment in the capital of Europe.For the -- as it comes to the financial part, I will now hand over to Antoine, who will give you more details.
Thank you, Xavier, and good morning, everyone. Presently, the vision today, especially as we have some good news to share. So let's start with revenues. Okay, sorry. Sorry for that.So thank you, Xavier, and good morning, everyone. It's a pleasure to be with you today. And especially as we have some good news to share. Let's start with the revenues. As you see, our total revenues have grown with 3.3% in comparison to last year and reached EUR 346 million. The main growth is coming from the retail service revenues, which have increased by almost 5% to around EUR 242 million. The convergent and fixed only service revenues were the main drivers for this increase, and it's a direct consequence of the larger customer base. Our mobile-only service revenues slightly decreased. Our wholesale revenues increased by 3%, mainly because of the increase of visitor roaming traffic. The third quarter of 2021 was characterized by more international movement in comparison to 2020. There was, however, decrease in incoming traffic from voice and SMS. The decrease of SMS incoming revenues accounting for EUR 4.2 million in comparison to last year. But as you know, there is no impact on margin as incoming and outgoing SMS traffic is very well balanced between the different operators. Our equipment sales and other revenues decreased by EUR 2 million, also with very limited impact on our margin.Let's turn to EBITDA. Our EBITDA increased by more than 8% in comparison to last year. In terms of costs, our direct cost increased by almost EUR 7 million due to our increased customer base in cable, while our indirect and labor costs decreased by EUR 3.1 million, thanks to many efficiencies. Our revenues mainly increased with high-margin activities and low-margin activities, as I said, such as SMS and equipment sales have decreased. Therefore, our EBITDA margin increased by -- to almost 28%.We -- as Xavier mentioned, we continue to manage tightly our costs and have set up several programs as part of Orange Ahead our new transformation program following Bold Inside.I can already share with you some highlights on this new plan. And I'd like to take this -- the opportunity of this call to share it with you. Obviously, digitization of our sales and our processes is a key pillar of this program. We have a deep ongoing IT transformation that will make possible significant savings in the coming years. The order management process will be much more simplified and much more digital than it currently is. We also want to continue improving the digitization of our sales and customer contacts. The more we increase our digital sales, the more we can streamline our distribution network and the more we can reduce our A&P spendings.We have many initiatives to boost our online sales, and by 2025, we target to have almost 70% of our sales on distant channels compared with less than 30% today. The introduction of hey!, which is a complete digital channel will also contribute to increase the digital sales. The RAN sharing deal with Proximus is the second pillar of the cost savings in the coming years. We target a net reduction of 20% of our network OpEx by 2025, thanks to energy savings. Less rental costs with, at the same time, a significant improvement on -- of our mobile coverage. Last but not least, we have a comprehensive plan to achieve significant savings in our general expense. That's what we call smart spend. The post-COVID ways of working will enable proper savings, and we already managed to free up some space in our HQ that will be sub rented. We also made some adjustment to the mobility plan with the objective to improve our carbon footprint and at the same time, reduce the cost.Let's now turn to e-CapEx. We had a decrease year-on-year of 4.1% to EUR 40 million. We expect to have a catch-up in the fourth quarter as we will accelerate the implementation of the RAN sharing. Therefore, we still forced it to reach the e-CapEx spending in line with our guidance. Last but not least, our net debt has decreased to EUR 63 million.To conclude on our guidance, we confirm our revenue and CapEx guidance. We expect to have a low single-digit growth in revenue this year via 2020. And our e-CapEx will be between EUR 200 million and EUR 220 million, given that, as I just said in the last quarter, we'll have an increased CapEx spending following the acceleration of the implementation of the RAN sharing. When it comes to EBITDA, we will slightly exceed our range of EUR 320 million to EUR 340 million, even the quarter positive results and the improved health context.With this, I conclude this presentation. We are ready for your questions.Operator, may I ask you to now open the call for the Q&A session.
[Operator Instructions] First question is from Mr. David Vagman from ING.
First, could you please come back from the savings of the Bold Inside plan so far this year? And what you basically expect sale this year? Are we still in the range of, let's say, roughly EUR 30 million of gross savings. So are you ahead of that? And then Antoine, I heard, so you gave some sort of guidance, let's say, for 2025. Could you disclose a little bit more, let's say, quantify a little bit more, for instance, what we could also expect from quantifying it, let's say, but also for 2022, give us some measure of the progress we should expect before 2025. So that's my first question on the cost. And then secondly, on the very good mobile postpaid net adds and also, let's say, the nice quarter-on-quarter increase in mobile ARPO, could you explain as why you think you've been successful, the trade-off that you've had to do? And to which extent you think this success can be -- can continue basically in the coming quarter? Or you would expect a slowdown?
I'll start with the savings, your question. For 2021, we confirm that we will be fully in line with the target of gross savings, EUR 30 million gross savings that we announced as part of the Bold Inside transformation program that will come to an end in 2021. Regarding the detailed figures, you had for 2022 and the coming years, we will disclose the new detailed figures at the full year results. I think we wanted to share with you today the most qualitative aspects of our new plan, and we'll share with you the new figures for the coming years in February.
Is it correct to show as you -- I mean, you mentioned that we should expect some very significant savings notably on the digitalization of sales, is it correct to expect something very material, let's say, in the line of the Bold savings plan?
David, Xavier speaking. And maybe linked to the -- to your other question. So I think, as it has been said by Antoine, okay, we won't disclose any precise figures for '22 and Orange Ahead, I would say, plan because we actually, we can confirm that EUR 30 million for '21 will be reached, but we need just to see how the market will evolve, particularly on the digital segment to make sure that we will be able. And to us, that's why we prefer disclosing this forecast for '22 online. And maybe linked to the question you asked on the mobile net adds. So first, we were assured that you will be on this, of course, and you will be asking the reason why. But actually, this is maybe a couple of things. The first thing that the market was, I would say, not really well animated in Q3 are -- of course, we had some promotion coming from the peers coming from us. But honestly, during the summer lease, the market was quite, I can't say peaceful, but not very, very animated that's the first thing. And this is something different with what we experienced in the past quarter. And to me, this is, of course, something different with what we are intending to experience in Q4 and maybe in Q1 next year. So this is the first thing. The point number two, that thanks to the preparation we had during this all lockdown, the lockdown we had here in Belgium. And of course, like every country, but -- so we've been able maybe to manage quite well the demand -- the customer demand in every channel, not only the digital, but also in the physical, though the involvement of the team members, particularly in shops in telesales was really, really, really good during this Q3. And of course, we've been able to tackle every, I would say, specific needs coming up in front of our front channels. So that point number two, then we had, I would say, a quite interesting level of gross add. And maybe last point, so you know that the churn here in Belgium, not only at OB, but in the market is quite high compared to the, I would say, the medium-range or the average figure in Europe. And then we started, I would say, for years now, but we started to increase some action plan on this side, on the churn rate, also on the convergence, of course, the attachment rate as well. And then it has, I can't say started, but it has continuously delivered some good numbers. And particularly this quarter. So this quarter, we had particularly good, good results on the churn. And that's why just to finish my answer, I would say all in all and with a mix of these 3 main reasons, we don't know what will happen in the next quarters, okay, starting on Q4 because maybe the market will become much more animated. Maybe we'll suffer from, I don't know, other restrictions in the sanitary complex, et cetera. So we are, of course, working on delivering this kind of performance every quarter. But actually, I think that that's not something that we will -- that we will do every quarter. What we are starting to build as well is the kind of, I would say, full multichannel policy. Of course, with hey!, introducing hey!, even if it's not relevant for this Q3 because, of course, you've seen that we launched, hey!, in the very, very last days of September. So of course, the figures are not relevant for the Q3. But for the quarters to come, I think, of course, we'll try to play with every segment, as we said, with every channel, of course, leveraging on the digital, but not only, also just to make sure that our distribution channel -- physical distribution channel help us to sustain these kinds of preference. But we can't say as of today that we will deliver such a good performance every quarter, starting Q4, of course. We need to be, I would say, cautious on this.
Next question is from Mr. Nicolas Cote-Colisson from HSBC.
Just trying on cost cutting. You had a very low level of labor cost this quarter after 2 stronger quarters. So is it a level we can extrapolate to Q4? And beyond with the digital sales target you have, should you say that the labor costs are the largest pool of savings? And secondly, on MVNO, can you just remind us the timing for the full transition of Mobile Viking? And how do you see opportunities in the market to reload your network eventually?
Let's start with your second question, the timing of the MVNO contract. It's -- it will come to an end in March 2022. We'll have MVNO revenues from mobile banking until the end of Q1 next year. Regarding your question on cost management, as I said, clearly, labor cost is not the main topic. We'll work on our cost savings programs. It's much more about process digitization, network OpEx optimization, thanks to the RAN sharing, general expense savings. But of course, we monitor carefully our workforce cost. And regarding the cost in the labor cost on Q3, it's -- I would say, more of the seasonality effects due to some turnover in the team. And it's -- I wouldn't say that it's something that we should take for granted for the next quarter. We have, in Q3, clearly, a low level of labor costs.
If I may, just a follow-up. Generally speaking, how important do you think is a shop's distribution channel when it comes to sell broadband, is it different from mobile that may be more easy to sell online?
Can we solve this really? Not for sure because, of course, we've just launched some, I would say, 1P and Orange TV line that could be sold in a rechannel, every single channel, either physical or digital. But at the end, maybe this is something related to the customer journey, okay? So we are trying to work on this as well. The customer experience, I talked, when it comes to the churn management, of course, the customer experience and satisfaction is key. So we are working on customer experience in every single channel, not only digital. So at the end, to me, there can't be any real difference, but maybe in the short-term or medium term, you're right to say so. That's it.
And sorry, very last one. Just to make the opportunity to get another MVNO to lager network? Are there some opportunities eventually?
Good question, but I have no clue on this. I think we missed the very last one uphone, and I guess, maybe another one. So okay, if we could have this opportunity, maybe, but as of today, we have no clue on this.
Our next question is from Mr. Roshan Ranjit from Deutsche Bank.
Got 3 questions, please and first 2 kind of relate to the retail trends that we've seen, very strong overall KPIs. Is it possible to get a sense of how receptive the customer base was to the Go Plus data boost because I think you launched out right at the beginning of the quarter. So I don't know if it's in catchment rates or what percentage of subs were taking that? Secondly, on the fix side, again, I think, beginning of last quarter is when you launched your broadband-only plans, is probably a sense of what percentage of the base is taken out because that's clearly driving your fixed revenue growth there? And I guess my third question is on the fiber pilots now. I haven't seen anything in your release, given us an update. So I am just wondering what the latest standing is there, the 15,000 fiber pilots have they been rolled out? Or why is the time in to roll that out? And where do we go once you have achieved that 15,000?
Well, maybe for your first question, question #1 on the retail trends. Yes, of course, the move we've made on the 2 gig generosity was, of course, a full useful and fruitful as well. But as I said, it was a mix of 3 main reasons: the market commissions, the traction we had in terms of offer, and then, of course, on Go Plus, as you said and the churn management. So it has been part of this interesting KPI, interesting numbers, but not maybe the only one -- only factor. On your point number two, to me -- and to us, maybe nothing has really changed on the broadband for this quarter, okay? I can't say that this is what we can do in -- or what we've done in the past and then during this year, 2021, but nothing has really changed. What we are trying to do is to improve and to -- we are working very, very, I would say, deeply on this just to make sure that we will improve our customer journey. I can't say that, that has been, of course, a key topic for this Q3 performance, but we are working with our cable suppliers just to make sure that either on the installation, and then, of course, if needed on the repair side, we are continuously improving our customer experience. That's it. Nothing has really changed on the offer side. So we are working on continuously. And of course, we'll try to replicate this number for the fix, but nothing has really changed. And for the fiber pilot, of course. So we are working on this. I would say, technically on the purchasing side, but nothing has been, I would say, completely fixed on this. So we need to continue to work on the specifics, on the tech side, on the hardware, the software as well. So we are working on it, but nothing -- no update really on that side as well. Ongoing, I would say. The last status is ongoing process.
Okay. What is ongoing? Is it fair to assume that the 15,000 have been built or...
No, no, no. Sorry, sorry, the predesign. The predesign is ongoing. Nothing has physically started yet.
And when should we expect that to start, please?
Actually, we don't know. We don't know because we launched some RFP on that side, and it has not been completely over. So we are working on it, but the predesign is ongoing, that's it.
Next question is from Mr. Emmanuel Carlier from Kempen.
A couple of follow-up questions from me. First of all, on the cost savings plan, the cost savings coming from the network sharing, do you predict that these will be different versus the numbers you disclosed previously? And related to cost savings, is it fair to assume that given you started with savings from selling more digitally, that the savings from that should be above the one of the network sharing? So that's the first question. Then the second question is on EBITDA 2022. So if you look at consensus, it looks like there will be no growth, which looks very conservative with ongoing retail services revenue growth on top of that some cost savings. And of course, on the negative side, you have Mobile Vikings. So what I would like to check here if there are any other important elements that could influence EBITDA next year, that's it.
Okay. Sorry, a problem with my mic. On your question, we completely confirm the savings from -- the savings targeted in our RAN sharing deal and the ones that were already disclosed. So clearly that's something that we confirm and that we monitor very carefully. I wouldn't say that it's more or less than the savings that we planned from the progressive digitization of our sales first is the fee and don't disclose this level of details. But I would -- and secondly, because it's, let's say, a different time line. So the savings coming from the streamlining of the -- our distribution network will be much more progressive. On the EBITDA 2022, it's a bit too early to give you a guidance. But what I can say clearly is the main impact and the main challenge for us will be the loss of mobile banking revenues and margin. We'll try to offset this loss as much as we can and the cost savings programs, I just mentioned, will help us on that. But it's a bit too early to give you more visibility on our EBITDA for 2022.
Maybe one final question from me. Could you give an update on how you look at the potential for mobile entrants. Has anything changed on your views?
Xavier speaking. Sorry, just to come back on the principle. So we said -- so sorry, guys, but we said that we will give you the -- our view on our targets for '22 only in Sep. Okay. On your point #3 on the force entrant. So we have some, I would say, I guess, it has been released. Not yet, no. But we are waiting for the advice of the [ confidata ] here in Belgium, so that has been asked on the Royal decree compression with the law -- with the European law. So we are waiting for this. And normally should come, I don't know, in the coming days, over the coming weeks. And we are, as we said, so we are expecting the auctions for Q2 2022. Then we'll have some, I would say, fresh news coming from the authorities on this. What we have said, and I would say, continuously, and we have also said that when we launched hey!, a couple of weeks ago, that to us, there is no economic space for potential force entrants here in Belgium. And maybe thanks to the market animation, but also, hey!. To us, we are confirming that there is no space, I would say, at all. So this is only what we can say. It's not in our hands. Of course, this decision-making is not in our hands. But we continue to say that there is no economic room for maneuver for a potential force entrants here in Belgium.
Our next question is from Mr. Martin Hammerschmidt from Citi.
I have two, please. So the ones on the competitive environment into the fourth quarter, and you alluded to it a little bit, I think, on the first question, that 3Q was sort of surprisingly not that much competitive, but you expect more -- let to be replaced in the fourth quarter and the third quarter next year. So could you give us a sense of what you are seeing so far in the fourth quarter and also in that context, could you give an equation of how sort of your new brand hey! has done so far one month after launch? And then the second one is on the labor cost. To what extent are your labor cost inflation in terms of sort of the other salary increases and linked to inflation? Or how does it work specifically in your case? And then when do you typically increase labor cost, please?
Sorry, the noise was not completely with a very high level of quality, but we assume that we understood your question. So the first question on the competitive environment. So yes, Q3 was, of course, animated, but honestly, we can expect maybe a Q4 largely more animated than the Q3. What we -- what -- if we can remember what happened last year, we had quite really animated quarter in Q4, thanks to every, of course, particular events, Christmas, San Nicolás in Belgium and then, of course, the bridge from back-to-school to San Nicolás and then Christmas. So I don't know, actually, we don't know, okay? We can't -- we have -- I can't say no clue because we know that, of course, it's going to be a crucial commercial time for every single operator in the world, but also, of course, in Belgium. But at the end, yes, in the Q3, we expect some really quite animated context in Q4. That's why we told you that we're not maybe in a position to replicate what has been done in Q3 every quarter. That's it. And hey!, sorry for that. I know that this is maybe a bit deceptive, but we can't provide any precise figures as of today. We'll see. I can't say for sure, but of course, we -- as we launched, hey!, on the -- if I can remember well on the 24th of September, okay? We have only a few, few, few numbers of, I would say, customers and impact. It's not really impactful for Q3. So we'll be in a position to say more starting Q4. Sorry for that.
I can take your question on the labor cost. Clearly, when I answered to Emmanuel of the challenges for 2022, I could have mentioned also the impact of the indexation. It's something very specific to Belgium. We have a legal indexation following the inflation as in the past few months and in the coming months inflation will be quite high and much higher than the one we had in over the past few years. We expect a significant indexation of our labor cost next year. It will start on the first of Jan. And that's also why when I answered the question later on the labor cost, I remain a bit cautious on the labor cost evolution. We should have an indexation of around, I would say, 2.5% next year. So that's quite significant and much higher than the one we had in the -- over the past few years. But it clearly depends on the indexation in the coming months of the reference base for the legal indexation and the inflation in the past -- in the last 4 months of the year. So we'll have the figures probably at the end of December.
Our next question is from Mr. Ben Lyons from Crédit Suisse.
Just another follow-up on the postpaid adds. You mentioned earlier that the gross adds were interesting. Am I right to assume that means higher? And if so, is that a result of higher churn in the market or the market accelerating in terms of growth? And my second question is on the performance of the cable business from a cash perspective. I know you don't include anything in the PowerPoint anymore, but could you perhaps talk a little bit more qualitatively around that? And if there is any scope to raise the EUR 40 a month home offer, given it's sort of the lowest price point in the market? And lastly, if I can just add, what do you expect for marketing spend in the fourth quarter given the new brand?
Ben, just to come back on your first question, and of course, we, of course, elaborated on this. I don't know, actually, if we had a higher churn on the market, I don't know. But to us, as we said, this is something -- this is a mix between every single one, I would say, elements. So we said the market animation, we said the gross adds and the churn as well. So I can't answer honestly precisely your question. I know if the market has accelerated not on the churn, what we see internally is that we are maybe able to contain and to manage maybe better than the last quarters or churn, but saying that it has had an impact on the whole and the market KPI, honestly, I don't know, okay? Because, of course, we need to ask every single or the prior year. On your point number two, yes, as I said, we are working -- cable is, I would say, convergence, okay, much more than cable because cable gets fixed. But convergence is highly requesting, very good customer experience, customer enjoy. That's why we're working on it. But as we said, we also target every single segment. That's why we launched our 1P offer, that why also we've just launched our TV Lite. So we know that this market is going to be fragmented and segmented as well. And that's why we are -- we decided to position ourselves on the finance. So it could be of course, high-end, but it could be also maybe not low-end, but less high-end market as well. And we know that on the fixed side, this is something related to the customer journey as well, not only within our tools, but also the way the customer are evolving in their private life, et cetera, and maybe they could start with, I would say, single demand on TV Lite and also 1P and then, of course, moving from this kind of, I would say, simple offer to more elaborative one, like, of course, our Trio Duo and Trio. But we are deeply, deeply, I would say, invested -- involved in this because we know that part of the battle will be won on that side. And for the -- when you say market spend, sorry, the question #3?
Sorry, marketing. So advertising.
Okay. The -- for hey! specifically, you mean?
Exactly, yes. Should we expect sort of an increase at some of the group level to advertise hey!?
No, not really. As it has been said by Antoine, hey! is not a separate company within Orange, okay? It's a company, of course, completely and fully embedded in our guidances, in our policies, in our cost management. So whether we would increase, which, honestly, I don't know, but whether we would increase slightly the spending in Q4, of course, will have, of course, the reverse effect on Orange. So there won't be any impact on that side.
Just to add something, we will have year-on-year a significant decrease of our A&P spending despite the launch of hey!.
Next question is from Mr. Nicolas Cote-Colisson from HSBC.
A short one. On Orange Money that you have just launched, how does the financials work? Is it fully on your P&L? Or do you have a kind of a contract with Orange Group, who provides a solution kind of a turnkey solution? And what kind of benefits you see can provide to the Orange Belgium brand?
Nicolas. Orange Money, you know the business model perfectly. So this is the one that's going to be replicated in Belgium. So at the end, there is no direct impact, direct financial impact on the Orange Belgium P&L. The benefits are, I would say, you know that coming from the fact that this is something very good for the brand awareness, the Orange brand awareness. And of course, it will also leverage and support our prepaid recent corridors offers, the one we launched a couple of months ago. And of course, bundling for the customers, Orange offers and then Orange Money. Of course, we're doing something very fruitful for them. And as we said and as you may know, of course, you don't need to be an Orange customer first to be involved with Orange money. So these benefits are maybe much more indirect than direct and especially on the financial side.
But in terms of marketing spend, is it you paying for it?
No, no, it's not true. It's not true. We won't support any cost on that side in Orange Belgium channel. So it's a complete -- no impact, no impactful on us.
At this time, we have no other question. [Operator Instructions]. Seems that we have no other questions, sir.
Then thank you for the participation in this earnings call. Would you have any further follow-up questions, do not hesitate to contact the IR team, and we will happy to help you with that. Thank you for your participation, and have a good day. Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the conference call. Thank you all for your participation. You may now disconnect.