Bank Polska Kasa Opieki SA
WSE:PEO
If you don’t study any companies, you have the same success buying stocks as you do in a poker game if you bet without looking at your cards.
Utilize notes to systematically review your investment decisions. By reflecting on past outcomes, you can discern effective strategies and identify those that underperformed. This continuous feedback loop enables you to adapt and refine your approach, optimizing for future success.
Each note serves as a learning point, offering insights into your decision-making processes. Over time, you'll accumulate a personalized database of knowledge, enhancing your ability to make informed decisions quickly and effectively.
With a comprehensive record of your investment history at your fingertips, you can compare current opportunities against past experiences. This not only bolsters your confidence but also ensures that each decision is grounded in a well-documented rationale.
Do you really want to delete this note?
This action cannot be undone.
| 52 Week Range |
136.15
190
|
| Price Target |
|
We'll email you a reminder when the closing price reaches PLN.
Choose the stock you wish to monitor with a price alert.
This alert will be permanently deleted.
You don't have any saved screeners yet
Good morning, everyone, and thanks, everyone, for joining us here in the room in Warsaw as well as those joining us on the line. Welcome, everyone, to the Q3 results of Bank Pekao. I'm joined here with Michal Krupinski, CEO, and Tomasz Kubiak, CFO. And we'll follow the usual structure of the call. So first, we go with the results and key highlights of the business. And then we follow with a Q&A here first in the room and then also open to those on the call. So let's kick off.
Sure. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Let me quickly run you through what we think are the biggest achievements of, first of all, third quarter as well as first 9 months. We think we have a very strong -- we had a very strong revenue momentum in the third quarter and also very good progress as regards cost management. We maintain a very relentless focus on costs. And I will run you through that in a minute. So I consider results being solid and robust, which gave us a very good expectation for, first of all, the yearly results as well as achieving of our strategic goals, as outlined in the strategy.
So first of all, profit is up by 6 -- profit was PLN606 million, which is up by 11% in third quarter and 9% in the first 9 months. Very strong revenue dynamic across all commercial segments and, as I said before, a very big focus on costs. We actually had a first quarter when the costs are not rising. And we will go into more details in a minute.
Double-digit growth in key retail products, products which are strategic for us, and a very good quarter-on-quarter acceleration in corporate banking, great focus on implementation of strategy leading to higher ROA in corporate banking.
Very strong lending activity growth in high-margin products. And what is very relevant we think is NIM expansion. We are expanding our NIM. We are becoming more disciplined with respect to pricing as well as cross-sell.
On the business development front, we maintain our objective of opening 400,000 new accounts this year only. This is supported by a Q3 number which was above 100,000. This you should put in the perspective of past years when the bank was open -- was able to open between 50,000 and 60,000 new current accounts.
Very big push on digitalization initiatives. We have around 90 digitalization initiatives, mainly in retail banking. And this is all bearing fruit. Strong growth in electronic channels in both mobile as well as electronic channels, plus the fact that our PeoPay app was recognized as a global innovation of the year by EFMA, so very important prestigious award here, which I think speaks to the many functionalities and the very good focus on payments and innovation at our bank.
A big thing for us are strategic partnerships. I would just like to mention three of them. First is we were able to build -- formalize with Microsoft, where there's a couple of initiatives with respect to digitalization, mainly focused on small- and medium-sized enterprises. And this is already bearing commercial gains.
We announced last week a strategic partnership with global investment bank Lazard. And the intention is to work hand in hand with Lazard supporting needs of our clients with respect to outward M&A as well as support of our investment banking franchise for Lazard global clients. So again, a very good partnership with a premier adviser, global adviser here.
And on the top, new partnership in corporate banking and transaction banking with JPMorgan supported by blockchain initiatives.
I already discussed costs. So we do see an improvement, decrease in costs and annual dynamic below CPI inflation. This has to do with restructuring, restructurings both in form of voluntary leave program, but also this has to do with the initial delayering of the structure. We were able to downsize the number of managerial posts by 9% since last year.
And last but not least -- and I think Tomasz, our CFO, will talk about it at length -- is capital resilience, which has recently been supported by EU-wide EBA tests, where we took a very good top 3 result and top 3 position.
So again, when you look at Slide 4, profitability is up, 9% up, profit growth on comparable basis supported by very strong momentum and revenue growth on cost lines. This leads to an improvement in ROE and a very stable and robust capital position. NIM is growing by 5 basis points year-over-year. So we maintain we would be able to grow quarter by quarter. This has to do with our pricing discipline.
Cost to income is down because of reduction in personnel expenses in the third quarter of this year. We have a slight increase in -- of moderate increase with respect to cost of risk. We think -- we know this is related to rather a one-off and a very -- and a specific select exposure that we had. So we are convinced that the cost of risk will stabilize around the numbers that we were able to show in the previous quarters.
Very big growth in key retail. Loans volumes were growing 14%, strong dynamic for both mortgages as well as consumer finance. Good penetration in mobile banking customers. Commercial banking revenues up. And on the top, as I said, we were -- we show very big resilience with respect to capital liquidity position, which being supported by EBA stress test.
So now, Tomasz, why don't you run us through very detailed results?
Thank you very much. Morning, everybody. So very quickly, we achieved a net profit of PLN606 billion. This was one of the best third quarters during last few years. So quarter-over-quarter 11% increase in net profit. Year-over-year, this is around 9%, excluding the effect of voluntary leave program provision.
When we move to the sources of the growth, gross operating profit increased by 7% year-over-year as a function of two elements, increase in revenues 5% and cost under inflation 1.7%, if we compare to the third quarter of last year. In the revenues, what we will see is, first of all, good dynamics in business, as we saw during last year's, good dynamics in net interest income, but also a rebound in fees and commissions, which is a very important factor.
Now talking about business and growth in revenues, as in the previous quarter, we are continuing our strong growth in the business areas. So commercial bank is growing by 9%, with a strong push from retail and SME, 10% and 13%. On the corporate side, the growth is 5% year-over-year, but this also needs to be a little bit decomposed because, if you look at the core segments, like midsegment, light -- large segment, they're growing double digit, while where we are, let's say, slowing down is mainly public sector and financial institutions. But this is an element of a strategy with which we have been putting in place since a few months.
Looking at net interest income, the growth is 9% year-over-year without the shift between NII and fees and commission, which you know we've been talking about that would be around 1 percentage point less. We are consistently growing with the NIM, thanks to the asset mix that we are having. And this quarter, the NIM was flat. But if I look at the commercial effect of this, that was around 2 basis points growth. Then we paid a dividend. So we lost 0% funding of PLN2 billion, over PLN2 billion. And we had maturity of bonds. So those are the elements that decreased the NIM by 2 basis points. They will not appear in the next quarters. This is why we're quite confident that we will be able to grow NIM by 1 to 2 basis points per quarter, as announced earlier.
In terms of loan growth, we are growing by around 7% year-over-year, 10% in retail and 3% corporate. The 3% corporate actually came from the third quarter this year. So we are seeing some acceleration in the volume growth of corporate as well. In retail, what is crucial is the growth in the most important segment. And here, we are continuing the growth, both in consumer loans and PLN mortgages generally gaining market share and in those segments, which is I think crucial for us.
In terms of funding, the funding is growing in line with the loans or even a little bit faster. What is worth to mention is that, despite hard market situation on the mutual funds, we are still growing the volume of mutual funds. The sales have slightly decreased versus the previous quarter, but the growth is still there. And that I think is a very important factor supporting the results.
Now in terms of the fees and commissions, we are seeing some rebound in the fees and commissions. You see a graph on the right bottom side of the slide. And we are showing on comparable basis what was dynamic of the fees during the last quarters. Actually, last year, the fees were growing. Now we're actually getting positive results. So this quarter is quite positive in terms of fees. I would like to say that the only line which we are not very happy about this quarter is actually the FX, which could have been better I think. And for sure, during the next quarters, they will improve. But the other lines are growing. We are expecting also a much better especially first quarter in terms of card fees. So here, we are growing I think very nicely.
In terms of costs, it's important that costs are looking -- comparing to last year, they're growing quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year below inflation. The main shift is coming from the HR costs. You remember, of course, that during last quarter, we were telling also about a one-off of around PLN10 million related with the MBO, but to the employees. But even without this effect, you can see still a consequent decrease in the HR cost line.
This is an element of, first of all, changes in the structure, as it was announced by Mr. President, but -- and also first signs of PDO. But of course, this voluntary leave program is not still in the effects. So there were a bunch -- a group of people that left during vacation related with the voluntary leave program, but there will be also a lot of people leaving in the fourth quarter, especially in December. So the full effect of this program will be visible actually next year, and this year still is still not that big effect.
In terms of cost of risk, cost of risk is, let's say, somewhere going between 35 to 45, let's say, basis points, on average around 40 basis points. This quarter, we had one bigger exposure, which we classified as NPLs and put -- and provisioned it quite significantly. And this is actually the reason of the spike in this quarter, but generally, no big pressure in this area seen.
Capital adequacy, 16% Tier 1, 17% total capital ratio. We also issued subordinated debt, as you know, in the fourth quarter. This should move the total capital to around 17.6%. Liquidity ratios also at nice levels. So we still have high dividend flexibility due to those capital ratios.
If we move to the stress tests of EBA, from one side, we were in the top 3 banks on -- in terms of sensitivity of capital ratios. And that I think is a very, very nice result. But I would like to draw your attention to fact how conservative the assumptions of Pekao under those stress tests were because this was, let's say, an area where the banks could take different approaches.
In Pekao, if you saw that the proportion between provisions in the normal -- in 2017 versus provisions that were created in the stress scenario, they were almost 5x higher. And the average of the EU sector was 2.7. And we also had the highest coverage among all banks in terms of in the stress scenario. So that represents how conservative we were. And despite that conservativeness, we had one of the smallest volatilities, so impact on volatility of capital ratios.
The level of capital ratios, the 15.5%, is also very sound in terms of crisis. If you look also at the fact that we were paying dividend actually in the stress scenario in 2020 and we were also profitable in 2020 in the stress scenario, not many banks were actually meeting all those criteria. So in the stress test showed not only our strong capital position, but also higher resilience to -- in terms of net profit, capital ratios to the macroeconomic situation. Think that is a very nice result. We're very happy from this.
This is everything from my side.
Okay. Let me tell you a couple of sentences on how we see business developing further. First of all, Slide 18, it's very strong growth in all business lines. So apart from very significant both loan and revenue growth with respect to retail and SME, something that we would like to stress is a rebound on corporate banking and particularly what we call midsector. I will come back to that in a minute.
With respect to consumer lending, very big concentration on net sales and strong 4% dynamics of net sales volume year-on-year, very interestingly and in line with our strategy of digitalization.
There's almost a 30% share of unit sales in the first 9 months down in electronic channels, which is a 14% share in volume sale, an increase in terms of volume sale. Improved profitability, so better pricing discipline, which gets reflected in NIM. And strong focus on bancassurance cross-sell, which supports interest income line.
Already one-fourth year-to-date is done through preapproved quick loan processes. So the slide here also shows you our dynamics vis-a-vis the sector with respect to consumer loan volume growth. So we are very happy with that.
With respect to mortgage lending, where we have consistently been number 2 bank in market, with one exception. I think there was one month in this year where we were actually number 1. We do see a very good balanced mix with respect to sales through our own channel as well as intermediaries, improving profit -- product profitability that is -- has to do with a better CPI cross-selling penetration.
So when you look here, I think for me most relevant is, of course, the very good dynamics, particularly after June of last year, but also very good CPI penetration that went up from 8% to 57%, which speaks to our excellent cooperation mainly with PZU in this regard.
Now on the accounts, record sales of accounts and continued growth in investment product despite of very demanding market environment with respect to investment products. We maintain our guidance, and we are convinced we will be able to hit the number of 400,000 new current accounts this year. So the new offer Konto Przekorzystne is indeed considered very good -- excellent product by hundreds of thousands of our customers.
In particular, we like the split because we were able to attract new clientele with respect to new current accounts, which will get reflected in our results, particularly on the fee side very soon. We have also been able to launch new micro -- new current account for microbusinesses. And we do see an increase of 50% in sales, as well as our savings account, where we do see a 14-fold increase in monthly sales, so very, very good, very good numbers here and very good inroads into the market.
We -- despite of what I consider a very demanding environment, we are growing in net sales of investment products, which is an increase of PLN0.6 billion in the first 9 months. AUM, we didn't have a negative month in terms of outflows as regards asset management. So AUM is up by 14%, and we were also able to introduce a new insurance investment product by PZU in -- quite recently in the past month, and this is all starting to -- this all starts to bear fruit. I think that you have to also put the numbers in the perspective of past years. So we are growing 6- to 8-fold with respect to new accounts, as compared to the dynamics of past years.
As regards digitalization initiatives, we will be able to go through that in more detail on the 20th of November in London, where -- during our Investors' Day. But just a snapshot here. A couple of very interesting initiatives, both on PeoPay mobile app with respect to remote mobile identification, new ideas with respect to biometrics, where we are clearly market leader with respect to biometrics in Polish retail banking and maybe even globally, which has been supported by EFMA award. This is a global innovation award which I think speaks to the fact that the PeoPay is one of the best apps in the world, payment apps in the world, but also the fact that PeoPay has -- we have been able to introduce new functionalities to PeoPay, such as [ leak ] acceptation in point of sales and similar for Pekao24. So very good consistent growth in mobile and electronic channels, which for us gives us an ability to downsize with respect to cost base on traditional branch-led channels of sales. And we have already become a leader in contactless payments.
Slide 23, with respect to corporate banking, very good consistent execution of the strategy, increase in cross-sell measured by noninterest income to total income, which leads to an increase in ROA very much in line with the strategy, relentless focus both in corporate banking as well as SME banking on leasing and factoring and cross-sell and very strong growth in mid, which are companies -- we call them middle-sized companies -- covered by our great bankers outside of Warsaw from the corporate centers in the main cities of Poland. And we are growing by double digits in the segment, which is very line -- in our -- which is very much in line with our strategy, so better use of the balance sheet here.
This led us to be able to run and be responsible for a number of significant transactions in the market. I will just mention a couple of them, such as the -- our own issue of subordinated bonds, which was run by our bankers, as well as very important financings with respect to the most important acquisitions in the market as well as refinancings of existing exposures, so very, very strong, very, very -- a lot of innovation here, including e-guarantees as well as expert finance. Expert finance is actually at work. We see a very strong pipeline here. We were able to sign first transactions with other international banks, particularly with respect to expert letters of credit program, so very good growth here.
Now on SME, consistent with the strategy, streamlining of product offering, implementations of universal agreements, we were able to hire a lot of product specialists for treasury, factoring, leasing, FX, which led us to grow a lot. We have a -- we have 2-fold increase in client acquisition, loan volumes, loan sales growing double digits, very much in line with our strategy. We were also part of COSME program guarantee line, which is the biggest program ever by the European Commission in Poland of this kind. So it's very much at work.
Now final slide, I already told you about the EFMA award. This was public. We opened a branch in London. I will -- we have increased interest from London-based private equity real money funds to invest in Poland. So we are expanding our product, our clientele in this regard. We were able to join developed markets by FTSE, FTSE Russell. So we were included in the Stoxx Europe 600 Index. And we also hosted a very important client event together with one of the most important think tanks in the world, the Atlantic Council, which is a CEO summit, a very good gathering of CEOs of largest companies in Poland and a very good -- for us, a very good way to better adjust our products and our product offering, so good client progress here, particularly for corporate banking clients.
I would say thank you very much. That's probably it on our side. We'll be happy to take any questions you have, if there are any, no?
Michal Konarski, mBank. I've got couple of questions regarding cost of risk. If you could quantify this one-off in corporate segment, is this -- the provisioning for this one-off is over, should we see any leftovers in the fourth quarter? And what cost of risk should we expect in following quarters?
We provisioned adequately. And I don't expect any more provisions related with this exposure. And we are, I would say, on average somewhere between 40 basis points -- somewhere between 35 and 40 basis points. Those are generally the levels we observed in this situation.
Marta Czajkowska-Baldyga, Haitong. Can you comment on the resistance of your fee income connected to the mutual fund business, whether we should see further of that in the following quarters as well?
Well, first of all, this is a part of the segment which for sure will be under pressure during next years also due to the regulators' moves on reducing the fees. We are managing at this stage to offset the market situation with much higher sales. And I think that is a big success we're encouraging, and we want to continue in this way. Also, the market should, let's say, be better during some period. We're also working on new products in this area very much on [ our near sides ], also to increase the revenues and offset negative regulatory effects. So all this should bring, let's say, for sure nondecreasing revenues and potentially even upside.
Michal Konarski, again. Following these FX fees and mutual business, is there any new information regarding the merger between the mutual funds of Pekao and PZU?
No, no decisions in this regard. We have a new management at our Pekao TFI. I was about to say Pioneer, but as you know, the name changed, historical name Pioneer. And we think they've been able to introduce some changes already as regards product offering, but it's too early to say. Of course, we're watching very carefully potential consolidation in the space of mutual funds as well as MiFID 2 introduction and what it means with respect to our architecture for different groups and segments of clients and also what it means from a point of view of how the market will play out with respect to valuations and potential drivers of consolidation. So we are reviewing this with a lot of attention, but no decisions taken yet.
Question from the front of the room. We pick questions randomly.
Thank you. Yes, the pole position may not always help. Well, first of all, congratulations on your results. I think there were some quite nice signs of life finally in your balance sheet. And more looking -- forward-looking questions from me. First of all, you're one of the few banks which escaped negative operating jolts. Your revenues are growing costs. So the question's how long you think this is sustainable. Secondly, on the sustainability on your lending growth, already in the mortgages, one can see declining origination, which is still quite okay, but the trends in this sector are even more stark. And you also highlighted good pickup in corporate lending, especially SMEs in the third quarter. Again, given the macro backdrop, do you speak -- do you expect this to continue? And generally, what's your view on origination and lending growth further out? Thank you.
Okay. Should I take costs or lending growth first? Okay. So maybe in the order, on costs, what we think plays out is the fact that we were able to downsize with respect to personnel costs. And there were two sides of decisions. First is initial delayering of the structure and the fact that we were able to cut -- I was just consulting with my head of HR. We were able to cut number of managerial positions by almost 10%. And this is already -- means considerable savings. Second is that the voluntary leave program is already at work. Now with respect to nonpersonnel costs, as you know, we have traditionally been not biggest spenders in terms of marketing. And we have traditionally been not big spenders in terms of seeking advice for strategic projects. So you do see some increase in these cost lines, but this is a very gradual increase, and we think the big growth that we particularly see with respect to key retail products is also thanks to a new corporate identity, very strong logo brand and the number of advertising campaigns that we have been able to run successfully. Now what will play out in the fourth quarter, but more particularly going beyond 2019 are big savings from voluntary leave program, which we account to PLN17 million. What will also play out is savings on -- with respect to managerial positions. We will also be gradually within the lifetime of the strategy decreasing number of branches, which will mean significant savings. But also, we will be able to centralize because, as we discussed maybe with one of the previous occasions, we think that the process of centralizations of operations has not been fulfilled in 100% at Pekao. So there's still a long way to go in order to make sure that we reach a ratio where almost 100% of people at our branches are focused on sales and not operations. So this is all at works in parallel. This is, of course, related to the pace at which we will be able to introduce many initiatives we have in the pipeline with respect to automatization and robotization. We do not expect, however, big grandiose spending items with respect to IT. So we think this also has to do with a lot of attention from the top, meaning management board, on cost items. And we do spend a lot of time discussing how we can cut costs without undermining the sales volumes. So again, we think it's all at work. We maintain our guidance, and we would like to be in position to go below 40% cost to income within the lifetime of this strategy. Now with respect to lending volumes, our overall philosophy is we should be growing faster than the market, as one of the leaders in the market, second largest bank. Of course, with our perspective, a lot has to do with macro sensitivity, particularly for us being largest corporate bank sentiment, but more importantly potential stronger pickup with respect to private investments would be very beneficial. We have [indiscernible], our Chief Macro, who's here to take any of the questions you have maybe at a later stage on how we see the macro and pickup with respect to private investments. So we think, with the current growth in lending, we should be targeting at least high-single digits with respect to volume growth, if not double-digit growth. But of course, a lot will depend on macro sensitivity. We do not necessarily see slowdown with respect to different product lines. And again, the strategy is not a market share strategy. The strategy is not to grow at any cost. We want to grow while at the same time increasing the -- we want to be increasing profitability with current growth, so very big focus on making sure that we focus on the most profitable products and not the fastest growing ones. Tomasz, anything?
Yes, I can only repeat what Michal said, but also what we said during last quarters that our aim is not -- is to keep costs generally in the longer term below inflation. And we want to finance generally the spending to be done on innovation and on the transformation on the bank through internal optimization of the process, through centralization of the process and through transformation.
Excuse me, another question from the front.
Seems we didn't fully satisfy your -- but we will come back to that.
Just another question on your expected NIM improvement. Would you mind sharing with us the main triggers of that improvement?
Mainly positive asset mix on the asset side. We do had, for example, also in the second quarter -- third quarter, sorry, some positives from a higher shift towards current account deposits versus term deposit. This is also related with the acquisition of the current accounts that was mentioning. This is also a factor supporting or at least not decreasing the margin, but mainly from the positive asset mix. We assume interest rates will be flat for the sake of this discussion.
Last few years, the fourth quarter was the quarter where you prepare a sale of a bigger NPL tranche. What should we expect? That's how this year as well?
We are working also on such projects, as we anticipated before. So yes, we are working on those projects.
[Indiscernible]. When I look at consensus expectations, which is PLN2.2 billion, you should report 680 in the fourth quarter to deliver. So the question is whether this is the NPL transaction that you're working on or other nonrecurrent items, such as sale exit of real estate pieces will be the filling gap. And I also have a follow-up question on your net interest margin because I was quite surprised to see the relatively moderate improvement, actually now improvement if I look at your presentation, given there's a positive counter effect. And why was it so moderate this quarter? Because some banks have had a better run.
In our case, the calendar effect is usually not too strong because, technically, I think mortgage loans are based on 30 to 360 calendar, which means that part of the assets is not having, let's say, a day effect on this. So the day effect is relatively small. It's a few million zlotys. On the other side, we had repricing of -- the last repricing on the bonds in the previous quarter. And also, if you remember, we booked a high dividend in the third quarter, which means you lose PLN2 billion of 0 cost funding. And that is a technical effect, but the pure commercial effect was 2 basis points up, and this is a more I would say sustainable.
We've got any more questions from the room? Well, in that case, we've got couple of questions on the line as well from analysts in London. So maybe we'll tackle those. So first of those from Autonomous. Do we expect any change in the stress test buffer applied by KNF following the results of the EBA exercise a few days ago?
I think our sensitivity on those stress tests was more or less similar to the range of buffer that we are having currently. So I don't expect any significant changes here.
And also, one more also from Autonomous related to capital. In terms of risk density, RWA to assets, which increase in the -- during the Q3, what drove the -- what was the reason behind the increase?
I think, if we look at loans, I think the loan density did not materially change or even maybe a little bit improved. If I look to the density versus total assets, I think we -- it's the effect of the dividend. So when we paid the dividend, we also -- we decreased the balance sheet, but mainly related with government securities, which have density close to zero. So that's only a lower share of government securities related with the dividend payment. So this is the only effect. But on the pure lending side, for sure we're not increasing the density, even due to the positive asset mix, so growing in the less dense RWA dense segments, we are decreasing that density.
One relates to headcount optimizations. Are we planning at this stage anymore headcount or voluntary redundancy programs over foreseeable quarters?
We do not anticipate any more of voluntary leave or group redundancies this year, though we are currently investigating and looking at how automatization and robotization might play out with respect to total headcount over the span of the strategy. And we do have a very relentless focus on cost in this regard, but not that we would plan any significant -- not that we would plan layoffs this year. So I do not expect any one-off negatives in this year.
Another question also from Morgan Stanley. Do we confirm or reaffirm our CT1 or Tier 1 target, which we stipulated last year of a minimum 14.5, which obviously impacts also our dividend capacity?
Yes.
Simple yes.
So I guess a very short Q&A session on those on the line, unless any more questions from the room, and one thing from my side. You can see behind us we would like to warmly invite you on the 20 of November to London this time around with our Investor Day. You can see many topics that we'd like to cover, obviously plenty of space also for Q&A. So hopefully to see many of you in London, and those that can't join us, obviously, we'll provide broadcast facilities to follow online.
Maybe like just add in the voiceover. So we -- first of all, we will be willing to give you an update on the implementation and operationization of the strategy, a little bit of an update on capital, how we see capital dividend and risk, but more importantly or equally importantly, on how we see transformation with respect to retail, our retail franchise, and overall transformation, digital transformation of the bank. So people who run different business lines will also be presenting, and I think we will have a chance to clear anything that has not yet been fully clear from your perspective. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. And obviously, please join us for a small -- it's not lunch yet, but could be.