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Hello. This is Michael Steirer speaking from FACC. Good afternoon to everyone. We are very, very sorry for any inconvenience due to the delay. We had some technical issues with our provider. We hope to have a solution available right now. So my name is Michael Steirer, and with me today are Robert Machtlinger, our CEO; together with Aleš Stárek, our CFO, and -- and as always, we have already provided some detailed financial information in our press release today morning.
Today, the Q&A session will be a written one, so you have the possibility to raise questions during clicking on the question mark. And afterwards, I will read the questions as we have no possibility to receive questions from you as we cannot hear you within this new tool and this short-term setup. So we are very sorry for that. But nevertheless, you have the possibility to do it in a written format. And if the time doesn't permit to answer all possible questions during today's conference call, we will be very happy to scale additional one-on-one meetings afterwards as every time.
In this case, I would like to ask you to get in comfort with our Investor Relations department. So that means Taverne or myself in order to coordinate all these appointments. I will now hand over to Robert Machtlinger, our CEO. Thank you.
Good morning. Good afternoon to everyone, and I also would like to apologize for the inconvenience. As always, we prefer to talk to you in person, not doing chat and reading your questions and answering them. So again, also my apologies from my side, will not happen in the future -- or again, sorry, it's a onetime event, which is a little bit more complex. And I rather would have talked to you in person and having your direct feedback again, sorry.
For the Q3, as Michael already said, we prepared presentations. You shall have access to it. If I can quickly jump into the Q3 highlights. And before doing that, I think, even in a quite rough environment and you all know that, Q3 pretty much developed as we have thought it will be a little bit of seasonality in the numbers. Very good was the top line. The EBIT development in Q3, not unexpected. I think we talked about in the previous call that Q3 will be a little bit impacted from the 1 or the other seasonal effect. Nevertheless, after 9 months, EBIT is in a ballpark where we have expected it once we did the yearly business outlook. And even in the unexpected environment caused by the Russian-Ukrainian war, I think, so far, the environment which was managed, okay? For the outlook, I will come later on. Overall, right now, coming to the bullet point, our customers are continuing to confirm market development with increasing demand.
As you all are specialists, we know there is the one or the other issue also our OEMs and other suppliers have to manage. Still, I think what we receive from our customers and the demand that we get from our customers, even if it's a little bit lower, it meets our market expectation, which we have done exactly a year ago.
So basically, we have planned for a higher demand. Right now, it's a little bit lower. But still, what we see from our customers is very much in line with what we had expected. Positive, and this was expected for some period of time right now is the certification of the COMAC 919, which happened just recently. Why is it important for us, FACC has quite significant work share on the COMAC 919. We are producing the entire cabin for the airplane, but we are also producing aerostructures components for the wing. So right now, we can enter the [indiscernible] production ramp-up which will come over years, quite soft, I would call it, but still good for us because the volume airplane is around about USD 1 billion per COMAC 919.
So after development and certification, we're entering the ramp-up of [indiscernible] production. Overall, Q3, and this is also not completely unexpected was, of course, stronger than Q3 a year ago comparing the 2 quarters beside it was a 26.6% revenue growth. And I think it's not specific to one program. It's pretty much spreading out to the entire portfolio FACC have. Still Q3, we couldn't have any positive development from the 787 reentering production that was announced in August, and we are currently ramping up production of the 787 again after a couple of months of no production for the reason or for the reasons that are well known to you.
Looking into the first 9 months, EUR 61 million revenue increase compared to the same period of last year, which is a 17.1 increase. A lot of it comes from also new programs we have to say from the [indiscernible] ramp-ups, and this is the contracts we have announced exactly a year ago in September when we got the contract for the 220 elevator [indiscernible]. So those programs are right now in the ramp-up phase. They are performing as we had expected as the learning curve at the high end, but nothing unexpected.
In the other portion, comes from the new model interior on the pump but business at the global 3,500, which is in the meantime, pretty much replacing the well-established and learned out previous configuration.
But also, of course, A320 and A315 and other platforms that are seeking a rate but still a touch base on it, at the beginning, the environment is still complex with a complex raw material supply, which we see still ongoing. And in the later page of the presentation, I will come back to it. We are expecting a more solid raw material supply chain in the months to come, but still not back to pre-COVID-19 stability as we have seen it, but still manageable. How do we manage it? We still run bid, but also a lot with inventory level increases. We have to do that to protect our sales from not entering a stock go production, which would cause us pain, but we also have to do this to protect the ramp up of our OEM customers. [indiscernible] new interior project ramp-ups is a little bit of having an impact on profitability. There is 2 issues are causing it also nothing new was planned and also surprising to us, but it's new configuration, which are normal once we're ramping up a new configuration because the resale versions, every customer wants to get this new material.
We are meeting through that phase as always in the past. But of course, earning curves are at the starting point. But already here, we see a stabilization in the last couple of months. And the resourcing of the one or the other material supply chain takes slightly longer because of global issues, but also here, it's on its way, again, for new programs, not on our learn-out programs. So that's something we are watching quite carefully. Again, I would say 3-months shift are going into the end of the year, early days of next year, but also these resourcing activities are up and running.
I think, Aleš, if you can ask you to go into the financial details before I'm returning the conversation with the outlook and the priorities for the year. Aleš, please?
Yes. Thank you, Robert, and good afternoon from my side to everybody as well. Let's switch to the financial section of the presentation. Slide #5, which shows us in the usual way, the revenues, the sales development and the EBIT. We see that on the sales side, after some kind of a weaker first quarter. We are now on an increasing way, almost EUR 150 million turnover in Q3.
So as Robert already mentioned, the market is developing according to our expectations on the top line. When you look at the bottom line, the EBIT then for the first time in some time, we have indeed realized a slight negative EBIT of EUR 1.9 million in Q3. Pretty much driven by the Interiors division, as we will see later, and then the reasons for that have been already explained by Robert in detail. So the challenges on managing the supply chain and the ramp-up is basically reflected mainly in the interior section.
On the next slide, you have a quick look on the Aerostructures. Here, probably the sales increase is the most dominant as we've already mentioned a couple of times this is the division with the highest growth rates for now and for the time in the future. At these levels of sales that we are now looking in, we have a pretty much stable let's say, slightly positive breakeven profit situation as the sales will increase continuously. Then basically, we are expecting to benefit from that on the Aerostructures side. on Engines & Nacelles, pretty much a similar picture, except for Q4 in 2021 with a couple of one-off impacts and then with a higher profitability. But now on these levels, that are pretty much flat when you look at it over the -- over the last 8 quarters, sometimes higher, sometimes lower.
But if you put a trend line, then it will be a pretty much great trend line. And with that, also the EBIT, the operational EBIT is kind of stabilizing in a slightly positive breakeven way with pretty much similar upside potential for profitability as we grow the business as especially at 787 now goes into production. And then from here, we'll see some growth in top line and accordingly in the bottom line. On the cabinet areas, here. But actually, over the last 4 quarters, the sales have been stabilizing and not really growing a little bit next picture here. with slight increases in 2021, but 2022 pretty much on a stable basis.
But as we said in this quarter, the challenges that we are experiencing are kind of depressing the profitability. And therefore, a negative EBIT of EUR 4.2 million in Q3. Coming to the next slide, the free cash flow. And that's a picture that we've probably seen for the last 3 quarters, again, basically underlying, underpinning what Robert has already said on the working capital management on the working capital situation, quite a lot of these -- of the negative cash flow impact in the working capital is coming from inventories. We are still in Q3, we were still dragging on the receivable side with the legacy issues, let's say, with the legacy issues of Q2 and then the lockdowns in Shanghai.
The resolution of these has been taking some time by now -- we are in a much better shape by the end of October with quite a lot of cash collection from China. So these issues are kind of smoothing out and sorting out so we are on a recovery with respect to accounts receivables, but the inventory part will still remain challenging for some time. As Robert mentioned, safeguarding and ensuring delivery to the customer is one of our top priorities. Looking at -- on free cash flow from -- on the cash flow drivers in more detail on one hand side, investments. And what we have done here since there is quite a lot of back and forth going to how to look at them.
We traditionally look at fixed asset investments and capitalized engineering. And now due to all the changes that we had in IFRS, the capitalized engineering is not really shown as an investment cash out. It's an operating cash flow as additions into contract cost, but it's for sure, part of our investment. So now we chose to show a little bit more transparent differentiating picture. So you see here pretty and timeline in Q3 last year. Overall, we have invested approximately EUR 19 million, approximately half of it was fixed assets, half of it was capitalized engineering.
The picture is pretty much the same in the first 3 quarters of this fiscal year. However, the overall numbers are slightly lower. It's a total of EUR 11 million and then 50% in fixed assets and 50% in capitalized engineering. When we look at the working capital stand-alone, we see a slight increase in Q3 only by EUR 5 million, but there are other elements here, not working capital as inventories, accounts receivables and payables. There are a couple of other positions in there as well.
So the increase is a little bit contained on that level. Last but not least, net debt by the end of September, and it's pretty much a consequence of the free cash flow development. Net debt has increased to EUR 238 million. And we see an increasing trend here from the 31st of December.
However, as you may remember, in -- we had a couple of extraordinary cash collections in December as we basically usually have in Q4. And that picture will also repeat itself in Q4. So we are expecting a decrease in net debt back to levels slightly over EUR 200 million. So around EUR 200 million, EUR 210 million. That's the expectation that we have. And along with that, and the EBITDA that we are expecting to generate until the end of the year, the 4.5 leverage requirement that the banks should be achieved.
With that, we are coming to the outlook section, and then I would hand over back to Robert for the outlook.
Aleš, thanks for the details. Well quick outlook next slide, and you see 3 pages this time. We wanted to be a little bit more transparent and forward-looking. First of all, looking into the market, and it's the larger airplane market, we've seen. A continuous increase of demand, especially on the A320 family with a 20% demand increase by the end of 2023 compared to the rate we are working today. The same is true on A350, but of course, on a lower level. So the A350 will step up in demand as well. Nevertheless, if we increase the rate from what we are currently producing by 1 airplane in a month, this is representing to 25%.
So in terms of rates, it's not a significant one in terms of numbers compared to the A320. But nevertheless, also on the A315, per airplane for efficiency, as you know, from previous discussions is quite significant. And the 787, which was on the production cost in Boeing, but also FACC because of the known regions is right now starting production, which is good for FACC because since the first day of 2022, we have restructured our contract, as you know, from previous discussion.
So starting producing will help us to generate revenues and a positive impact through the efficiency of A315. A320 where we also are quite strong on various products is ramping up is trained to trade in the last couple of months even during COVID had no downturn in rates. So there was a continuous ramp-up. We see that continue from what we have seen in the last couple of months, what we see already in the next 12 months to come. And in the next 14 months, we see a 50% increase of the demand for that platform and looking into 2025, the production rate compared to what we have today, we assume to double. So again, the A320 will be a platform for efficiency quite significant, quite important looking into 2026, and we already shared the numbers with your sales in the previous call will reach a level of [indiscernible] plus in revenue.
Business trends are same thing. 17% of total efficacy sales come from business jets, all platforms where we are working on with our customers are developing nicely. So the low end with sustain of [ 300 ], but also the midsize segment, which is the greater end of the Bombardier Global 3500 is doing exceptionally well. Outlooks from our customers are quite promising. And also here, we pretty much see good development. We are certainly looking into that segment a little bit more cautious into 2023, considering a cooldown of the industry overall, with some indications of recession.
So here, we are a little bit more cautious, I would say, but still outlook from the customers are reconfirmed as we speak. But again, we see it and review the market on a regular basis. COMAC, [indiscernible] talked about still running at lower rates, but stepping up in rates over the next couple of years. Also here, we have a potential of organic revenue growth because the product is developed. [indiscernible] are paid by our customer, and we are right now in trade production in a safe environment. Next page, supply chain. We talked about it. The environment is complex. I think we are maneuvering through it quite okay. We had no delays or production stops. So we are keeping up in place with the demand of our OEM customers, which I think was well received so far with all of our customers. Internally, we still think this will be ongoing for at least [ 6 ] months.
So we keep a fair amount of safety stock to protect us and our customers, we might see a little bit of a normalizing trend in the second half of next year. And we wait as we think the situation is a bit more stable. [indiscernible], of course, our vertical integration programs, which are up and running, fulfilling the expectations as we explained it. So there is more to come in our local for local insuring, which -- and this is, I think, what we see currently already.
We remove pressure from ourselves because of our cost increases. So we can level out some of the increases internally and be more flexible. So I think the decision to do so was good. And even in this complex environment, it gives us more flexibility and more safety. A quick word on energy supply, which is all over I think we have put in investments not just recently, but over the last 10 years into non-fossil energy sources. 80% of the heat energy, we are currently consume still is pending on gas. This was 100% some 10 years ago. So we did a lot -- and we have certainly developed for the next couple of years to be dependent from our fossil energies -- is a litigation in terms of gas supply issues, which is more an issue for Europe, not that much for other markets. We have set up the investment and we can change to oil burners. So in that case, if there is pressure coming from Russia, we have already mitigated that [indiscernible].
Going to the last page. In terms of guidance, we are peaking our guidance in terms of growth. So there is certainly a little bit more growth shown in the first 9 months. So we still think Q3, Q4 will not deteriorate significantly from what we have seen in the last couple of quarters. So the 10% volume growth applied is reconfirmed. And I think that's good. On the EBIT target, even Q3 was loss-making, which was expected as we have reported out in previous statements, the guidance in EBIT for the year end -- we are reconfirming plant #6 is nicely ramping up. It is doing [indiscernible] as expected. We are currently having round about 230 people. This number will go up before the year end to 250 people. So are all in line, and we are moving more and more work from Austria to our [indiscernible] facility.
Learning curves in the [indiscernible] facility are as expected and will help us in the next period to come. Liquidity and cash flow, Aleš talked about. I think we're peaking right now, October already had some good customer payments also into the C919 certification, which triggered a milestone payment. And overall, I think we're expecting more cash to come in because payment terms from high volume production we had in Q3 will also be paid by the customers before the end. So in terms of market positioning, we are out in the market, not our biggest focus is [indiscernible] because rates are ramping up anyhow, but still we're working with all of our times to do so.
[indiscernible] was announced already [indiscernible]. So that's pretty much what we can share is the time being. And I would like to thank you for listening. Again, these are products from not having a dialogue already right now, so we have to do it with [indiscernible] now. Again, my excuse, my apologies, but we are here to answer questions in the new environment as well, which will be a onetime event. Michael, I hand over back to you.
Okay. Thank you, Robert. So far, we have received 2 questions. I will read them and then hand over to the responsible colleagues on our side. So first question is -- has been received by George, George Mcwhirter from Berenberg. And he's asking, please, can you comment on whether there was any cash payment in the third quarter due to the legal charge? Or is this expected in future quarters? And what is the expected total cash charge linked to the legal case? I'd like to hand over to Aleš to give you an answer on that.
George, good afternoon. Indeed, and we have already indicated in our last call, we did have a cash out for the legal case in September. And we paid around EUR 10.6 million, which is approximately 50% of the total cash out. If you remember back, then the provision, but I would say not provisions the -- the overall negative impact in last year was EUR 25 million. approximately EUR 4 million linked to a write-off and then the remaining EUR 20 million to EUR 21 million were linked to a potential cash out and EUR 10.6 million has been paid out in September. For the rest, I'm pretty sure we will not have any cash out on that in this fiscal year. And then the cash out of the rest will most likely shift to 2023, but it's early to say when exactly in 2023.
Okay. At this point, I'd like to further go on with the question from Peter Rothenaicher from Baader Bank. He's asking what makes you so confident to achieve so good Q4 result to fulfill the guidance of 2-digit million EBIT. Do we expect one-off profits? Is the situation -- how is the situation price negotiations with OEMs? Are price increases possible? And what is the reason for the high tax payment in Q3? Maybe the first question, I would like to hand over to Robert Machtlinger for answering first question.
Yes. I can do that. Well, I think we have a couple of milestone payments still in our last quarter linked to program milestones. So that's pretty much developing as planned. We have certainly, I think, prepared for the year end deliveries. So there is some inventory already produced, but not yet handed over to customers. So we have the cost, but not the revenue and not the gross margin in between. So here, we are quite confident what we see and what the customers are demanding that it lines up as planned, making us quite confident.
And again, even if you hear the one or the other discussion, which is okay, and which only can reconfirm that the one or the other production rate will soften a little bit because of industry development or the pricing development.
In our planning, we have planned a little bit more conservative. So everything we see today is still pretty much in line with our budgets. In terms of price increases, well, as usual, I think if there is a price increase or an industry change and logistics, of course, was something that also impacted FACC. In normal cases where we are responsible for logistics, we have to pay for it. In a year where [indiscernible] very limited opportunities to big charge to our customers with one expectation if it comes to spear deliveries. This is normally pending on where we have the same as we certainly can pass on the extra cost to the customer who is receiving it there. Looking forward, I think, we have one or the exploration opportunity in our contract, which we are currently negotiating, but this will not have an impact to 2022. This will have a new condition applied for 2023 in later deliveries.
Okay. Maybe to the last point, which is the question in regard to the high tax payment in Q3, I would like to hand over to Aleš.
Yes. I will try to be as little technical as possible. First of all, it's not a tax payment. It's just a tax expense. And then you -- when you have the opportunity and you take our Q3 financial report and you scroll to the changes in equity section. And then there, basically, you take a look at the cash flow hedges. This is the biggest driver for this position. What we have is we have a portfolio of hedges that we have already conducted over the last probably 2 years.
And especially due to the increase in USD, most of these -- of these hedges that we have in our books for future cash flows have turned to a negative market value. So I mean turning point was actually already in 2021, where we basically started the year with EUR 8.7 million in OCI from the cash flow hedges and then turns to minus EUR 1.6 million. And then you see that basically year-to-date, we had another charge of EUR 28.9 million in negative cash flow hedges as basically that the real strong move has basically happened in 2022. And the biggest portion that we have now realized of these not realized -- that we have revalued the revaluation, the strongest impact in the revaluation happened in Q3 where we basically saw another move in the U.S. dollar below parity.
So on the net side, the increase in the negative market values was EUR 28.9 million, but this is the after-tax number. The gross number is approximately EUR 35 million. And the offset for this tax credit in the OCI, you see as a debit on the tax side in the P&L. So out of the 8-point -- let me scroll up, out of the EUR 8.5 million, EUR 8.4 million in income taxes approximately EUR 7 million, slightly more than EUR 7 million is coming from, let's say, the credit and debit on the tax side for the negative variation of the cash flow hedges.
So it's basically just a variation number. It's not a cash out. It's not a cash out in Q3 and other cash all in the future. I hope that this answers the question. If there is a need to have a follow-up discussion on the booking for the OCI, then please let us know, and we can have a one-on-one meeting sometime later this week or maybe next week. Just tell Michael or Taverne know, then they can scheduled call.
Okay. Then I'd like to further go on with a question raise from [indiscernible]. He's also asking the reasons for the high tax payment. I think the answer was already given by Aleš. And the second question is in regard to the Aerostructure sales, which is obviously driven by milestone payments. And the question is how much has this been in Q3? And what do we expect in the fourth quarter?
So I can answer it or Aleš, you can answer it. I think in Aerostructures, we had one milestone payment linked to an Aerostructures program, which was in the ballpark of EUR 5 million, which was expected on to say in Q4 but was pulled forward because as in the earlier milestone achievement, I think for Q4, in Aerostructures, there is no further one-offs. So it's a little bit of a change in period, was came later, but came a little bit sooner. Aleš, if you would like to add something to it, please feel free to do so.
Yes. I was a little bit going through my memory. The EUR 5 million settlement that we had, it was EUR 5 million on the sales side, but the P&L was lower. Michael and I, we were just looking at each other. I think it's around EUR 1.5 million that the P&L impact out of the milestone settlement with Aerostructures in Q3, yes.
Okay. Then I will further go on with the questions is from Harry Breach. Harry is asking, first, should we still at around minus EUR 20 million of negative free cash flow for 2022? The second question is, is it reasonable to expect that cabin interiors should reach breakeven in the fourth quarter or only at some point in 2023? The third question is, what are the volumes of U.S. dollar that you have hedged for 2022, '23 and '24? And what are the average hedge rates for each year. And the last question, and I will repeat it then, again. The last question is what P&L tax rate should we expect in the fourth quarter, more like 10 or 20 percentage. So first question was belonging to the minus EUR 20 million of negative free cash flow for 2022. Is this still the figure we can expect.
Yes, Harry, that's pretty much the net debt discussion that -- or let's say, I would like to derive from the net debt. We started the year with EUR 178 million in net debt. I'm expecting that we will be somewhere around EUR 200 million to EUR 210 million. So that would pretty much -- and then the delta and the net debt is pretty much coming from the free cash flow. So -- so I would expect that we will be in the ballpark of EUR 20-plus million in a negative free cash flow by the end of the year. Yes.
Okay. The second question was, is it reasonable to expect that Cabin Interiors should be breakeven in the fourth quarter this year only at some point in 2023?
I think that's something that we have also already discussed and then pointed. We see improvements and then positive impacts in Cabin Interiors from Croatia, Croatia is still ramping up and then let's say, the full impact from Croatia, you will see in -- only in 2023.
So as I said, at some point in time in 2023, I would expect a breakeven in the Interior division.
The third question is belonging to the U.S. dollar hedges for 2022, '23 and '24? And what are the average hedges. Turn it to you.
2020 -- 2022, our hedge, our hedge ratio, I would say that -- what we have -- and it's difficult to say because it's a rolling hedging. So what we have currently in our books is a hedge portfolio of EUR 430 million. And that's covering the remainder of 2022, the whole 2023, which is hedged approximately to 95%, and we are starting building up the hedges for 2024. So we have approximately, I would say, EUR 20 million to EUR 25 million in hedges that are due in 2024. So that's a little bit of distribution of the hedge portfolio. To go back and see how much -- what was the hedging amount in 2022, I would need to go retrospectively and see basically what the hedge portfolio was in the beginning of the year, but it was lower. It was lower than EUR 430 million. It was probably EUR 350 million, EUR 360 million. And then we build up some portion of the hedge portfolio throughout 2022.
The average hedge rates for 2022, we are around [ 1650 ] -- between [ 1650 ] and [ 17 ]. The hedge ratio for 2023 is improving is around [ 113 ], I would say, yes, in that level and a couple of hedges that we have done for 2024, they will be around [ 106, 107 ] in that range. Yes.
Okay. And the last question is then belonging to the tax rate, what we should expect in the fourth quarter, more like 10 or 20 percentage?
Yes, that will be usual. I mean, as you know, and that's the thing we do not actually pay taxes because we are using the carryforward losses in our local gap. What we are doing is when we calculate deferred taxes, then we assume and when we calculate the tax credits, for example, now for the -- for the hedges, for the market value of the hedges, then we assume a tax rate of 25%.
Okay. This has been the last question, which was raised today.
I think there was one question on the content of the working capital that came by e-mail. We had one question that reach us by e-mail. On the content of the working capital, which balance sheet positions exactly are a part of the -- of the working capital calculation, as I mentioned it in my presentation, it's a little bit wider than what we usually -- or let's say, is wider than the working capital just inventories, accounts receivables and account payables. Maybe a good idea for everybody that I guide you through it.
So when you look at the balance sheet as we have it in our financial report, then the positions that we basically show in as working capital in our presentation, it's inventories. It's customer like in engineering, it's trade receivables, receivables from related parties, and it's other receivables are different items. So these 5 positions on the plus side, and on the liability side, it's then the contract liabilities was customer-rated engineering. It's trade payables, it's liabilities from related companies and it's other liabilities and different items. So it's basically 5 on the asset side and 5 on the liability side. And that was definitely the last question.
Okay. So no further questions received. So at this point, I would like to thank you. I think we have finished right now. If there are any further questions, as already mentioned initially, please get in comfort with our IR team. And we will support you as best as possible. Many thanks for joining our today's conference call and again, please excuse the delay and any inconvenience. Had a good day so for and thanks a lot. Thank you.
Thank you, and have a great day.
Have a great day.
Thank you. Bye. Bye, everyone.