EcoSynthetix Inc

TSX:ECO

Earnings Call Transcript 2024-Q3

[Operator]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the EcoSynthetix 2024 Third Quarter Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]

Listeners are reminded that portion of today's discussion may contain forward-looking statements that reflects current views with respect to future events. Any such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected in the forward-looking statements. For more information on EcoSynthetix' risks and uncertainties related to these forward-looking statements, please refer to the company's annual information form dated February 27, 2024, which is posted on SEDAR this morning on Tuesday, November 5, 2024, at 8:30 a.m. Eastern Time.

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Jeff MacDonald, Chief Executive Officer of EcoSynthetix. Please go ahead, sir.

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Thank you. Good morning, and thank you all for joining us. Yesterday afternoon, we reported our Q3 results, and it was a strong quarter. Sales were up 38% to $5.2 million in Q3 from the same period last year. That improvement was driven by increased demand for our products of 56% in the quarter and 47% year-to-date.

There's more good news. During Q3, we transitioned to profitability with $365,000 in positive adjusted EBITDA and $1.6 million in cash from operating activities. As an emerging growth company driving a diversification strategy, we will continue to experience some lumpiness from period to period. This quarter, the timing and product mix worked in our favor, but it's never a straight line. Overall, we believe the increased demand and results are good signs that the business is moving in the right direction and building momentum.

The diversification strategy is working. All of our target end markets are showing stronger demand with our growth coming from all geographies and all end markets. And the product mix is supporting the improvement in the margin profile and our profitability. We believe with a small amount of incremental top line growth, we can transition to being consistently profitable. This quarter, we achieved it on a spot basis, but our goal is to deliver it sustainably and grow it long term.

We're working with blue-chip partners that are now buying in more meaningful volumes and our biopolymers are part of their long-term planning. It's exciting to see the level of activity in wood composites, tissue, paperboard, pulp and personal care. Our products offer important benefits to these large global manufacturers.

Let's jump into each market individually. On the wood composites front, we're seeing encouraging and steady progress at our key strategic accounts. More of our product is going into more wood panels at their first mill, and that progress is supporting our top line growth. We're also making steady progress toward commercialization at their second mill. Activity is ongoing in the current period toward that end. We believe we'll see an impact on our results from that second mill in the next calendar year.

The strategic account laid out a plan 12 months ago, which they have executed against. Industrial change at this scale is challenging and delays frequently occur. But from our perspective, they've stuck to what they've said they would do during the past year. That positive momentum gives us confidence, and that momentum is reinforced by the work we're now doing with that strategic accounts third-party suppliers of wood panels. It's a collaborative push that involves the suppliers, the account and us. And we've now made multiple positive steps together with these suppliers through this year.

That engagement demonstrates the commitment of the strategic account to change the way wood panels are made. A no added formaldehyde product with the health and safety of customers and their employees at the forefront, investing in a lower carbon future where they continue to highlight bio-based glues as one of the key drivers. Their core philosophies are offering customers value, saving them money and reducing the impact on the planet. It's a message that comes right from the top of the organization, and we're seeing it in action with their level of engagement in our program.

Moving to the tissue and paperboard end market. Winning new lines or new accounts is taking longer than we anticipated in this vertical, which is frustrating. Our continued confidence is based on the fact that we've been engaged with distribution partners for 2 years in some cases and 1 year in other cases, and these partners continue to dig in on the program with multiple end customers in trials. They've broadened their trial pipeline, and they continue to order product for continued trials and come back to us for the next trial. They've signaled that they intend to broaden their engagement with more new trials that they're just getting started with. And the wins that they have achieved to date are also contributing to the growth we're seeing.

One of our distribution partners, which continues to broaden its roster of trials, now has programs ongoing in each of the paper-based end markets we target from tissue, paperboard, graphic paper and pulp. The level of activity is strong, but we haven't delivered enough across the goal line from our perspective at this stage. We will continue to advance projects and support our partners in these end market applications. But when it comes to our strength aid offering with SurfLock, there is no program more important than the continued success we're having with a leading global pulp manufacturer.

During our last call, I mentioned we were encouraged that we may get our next step of progress by the end of this calendar year. Subsequently, in both Q3 and the current period, we continue to ship more product to them to expand their trial program. That progress has happened earlier than anticipated. These extended trials have now made them one of our more important accounts strategically and commercially. We continue to support them, producing product at a regular drumbeat now to keep their trial pipeline filled.

In the personal care end market, our marketing and development partner, Dow, continues to grow and expand their program. They're broadening the application range for MaizeCare and winning new accounts step by step. One of those accounts that Dow won with a channel partner is based in Brazil and offers a new emerging brand that was just introduced to North America called Hidratei. They offer a full line of hair care products. It's one example of the success Dow has had with innovative and emerging brands that has helped to grow our business with them during this year, albeit from a relatively small base.

On the supply side, it's been a relatively stable period with no significant movements on raw materials. We've experienced some regional volatility, but generally, it's a much better macro environment than 2022 or early '23 with corn supply in balance. Our new line in Burlington is operating well. We continue to see productivity improvements with stronger performance each month, and we continue to fill orders together with the output of our long-term tolling partners in the Netherlands.

Before turning it over to Rob, let's step back and describe how we think about our commercial strategy at this point. Our diversification strategy is working. We have good momentum and strong activity in each of our target end markets. We've made up essentially all of the attrition and demand destruction that we endured from our legacy graphic paper end market. We're engaged with the right partners, but at direct parties we're selling into, as in the case of wood composites and pulp, are partners like Dow, who are taking our ingredients to market. Growing with these partners through higher usage and at new facilities is key. These partners and prospects offer an addressable market well beyond our initial objective of reaching $100 million in sales. But we're not simply pushing product into the market for trials and waiting for results or action from our prospects.

The results and success we're having with accounts and prospects are due to continued innovation and strong customer support. In each of our target end markets, we continue to make product improvements. We continue to support these accounts as they adopt new ingredients, and it's paying off. By continuing to innovate and march side by side with accounts, supporting their adoption, we're growing our lead in the market for bio-based ingredients. We're replacing chemistries that have been in the market for decades. That drumbeat of innovation is resulting in a better and better product in each of these end markets every year. We view it as a necessity on account of us being a small development company addressing large industrial markets. We're growing into something bigger, proving that we can deliver and it's starting to show through the financial results.

And with that, I'll turn it over to Rob to review the financials. Rob?

[Robert Haire, executive]

Thanks, Jeff, and good morning. Net sales were $5.2 million in Q3 2024, up 38% compared to the same period in 2023. As Jeff mentioned, we're seeing increased demand with volumes up 56% or $2.1 million in the quarter. A lower average selling price impacted sales by $700,000 or 18%. The lower average selling price was primarily due to lower manufacturing costs, which we passed on to customers. Gross profit was $1.7 million in the quarter, an increase of $590,000 or 51% compared to the same period last year. The improvement was primarily due to higher volumes and lower manufacturing costs, offset by a lower average selling price.

Net of manufacturing depreciation, gross profit as a percentage of sales was 36.8% in the quarter compared to 34% in the same period in 2023. The improvement was primarily due to the lower manufacturing costs, which was offset by lower average selling prices.

SG&A expenses were $1.5 million during the quarter, an increase of $250,000 from the same period in 2023. The change was primarily due to an increase in variable-based compensation.

R&D expenses were $540,000 in the quarter, relatively unchanged from $510,000 in the same period in 2023. R&D expense as a percentage of sales was 11% compared to 14% in the same period last year. Our R&D efforts continue to focus on further enhancing the value of our existing products and expanding our addressable opportunities.

Adjusted EBITDA was positive $365,000 in the quarter, an improvement of $550,000 from the same period in 2023. The improvement was primarily due to the higher gross profit, partially offset by higher operating expenses adjusted for non-cash items. Cash provided by operating activities was $1.6 million in the quarter compared to $130,000 in the prior period. This improvement primarily related to $800,000 in interest received on term deposits and $400,000 improvements in working capital.

As of September 30, 2024, we had $33.5 million of cash and term deposits compared to $33.3 million as of December 31, 2023. During the 9 months ended September 30, we have invested $1.7 million into the NCIB to purchase and retire 505,000 shares. We have demonstrated our ability to responsibly manage our cash reserves through multiple cycles while continuing to invest in our long-term growth strategy.

With that, I'll turn it back to Jeff for closing comments.

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Thanks, Rob. It was a strong quarter. Increased demand across each of our end markets drove higher sales. We're seeing tangible progress in the trial activity with global leaders in the wood composites and pulp end markets. The business turned a profit in the quarter. It's too early to declare victory, but we're very encouraged by the level of activity. We believe we're very close to transitioning to sustainable profitability and long-term growth. We're focused on converting prospects and trials to commercial accounts and growing the usage within our existing accounts. That success is underpinned by the innovation and support we offer to customers, which has strengthened the products we take to market. It's been a challenging few years, but we're very excited about where we're headed today and into 2025.

And with that, I'll ask the operator to open up the call to your questions. Thank you.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] And we now have our first question. This comes from the line of Brian Morrison.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Can you hear me okay?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Yes, Brian, we can hear you well.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

So Jeff, congratulations on what looks to be a possible inflection point for financials. I don't think anyone here was looking for a 5 handle on revenue and positive real free cash flow. So let's start with the obvious question on investors' mind in light of these good results that you alluded to in the prep remarks. And that has to do with the absence of contract announcements with the SurfLock line, namely tissue and paperboard. So rather than ask if some of these contracts are imminent or forthcoming, maybe just share with us what gives you the confidence that the adoption and the pipeline continue to move in the right direction and that your team can realize the potential that you believe is there?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Okay. Thanks, Brian. I guess before answering maybe the more detailed part of your question, I just want to make sure we don't drive past probably the most important announcement we've made all year with respect to SurfLock, which is its use in pulp with the large global pulp manufacturer. There's no more important program that we have on the go with SurfLock, and I'll say, overall at this point. So let's not forget about that. SurfLock works in a similar way in the end applications, which I think is the core of your question. And I mentioned things have taken longer than we've expected, and it is a bit frustrating for us as well.

What gives me confidence is we're working with channel partners to go after those end applications, and these are people that are running small and medium-sized businesses that have other options in what they can be doing and spending their money on, and they continue to invest in SurfLock and in these trial programs and engage with us and their end customers to keep moving things ahead. And we continue to make progress together. So there have really been no U-turns of any kind at any of these customers. It's all been continued positive progress, but it does happen in fits and starts, and these operations have other priorities on a day-to-day basis.

And we then end up waiting sometimes for our next opportunity to get in there and make the next step of change and improvement. But what keeps me encouraged is that, that pipeline does continue to move forward and broaden as well. So some of the newer partners that we've signed up are getting started with some very exciting new accounts as well. So pipeline continues to broaden, too. Change takes time as we've seen. And I guess this market, we expect it might be a little bit different based on some of our initial successes. But I think it's proving out that when you're changing existing processes in big old industries, this kind of change can take time, but we've got some great partners that are engaged in making that change with us.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Okay. I appreciate your comment on pulp as well, Jeff. I haven't forgotten about that. I'm definitely going to get to that in a minute. Maybe we can just elaborate in terms of what are the service providers relaying to you with respect to success, the excitement or lack thereof? And maybe how are contracts going to get across the finish line? And have the number of service providers -- I think you just said that, but have the number of service providers actually increased in the recent quarter?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Not in the recent quarter, but through the course of this year. And obviously, after you do an initial introduction, they do some work with your product themselves and then they begin to get it out and begin some work with new customers. And that process is happening now with the newer guys. The guys that have been with us for longer have expanded their customers. So let's not forget, we did announce some new wins midway through this year. And another encouraging point is that the wins they are achieving have been with customers that already had experience and were buying our product regularly. So these were repeat customers at additional mills, which I think is telling in that the experience was there, both the technical experience and the experience of achieving the savings or advantage with our product. So, I mean, that's another important proof point as well.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

So what does it take to get it across the finish line, you think, Jeff?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Continued work, Brian, with these companies. I would not be as encouraged as I am if they were not as engaged in pulling us along to new accounts. So it's just continuing to work alongside them to get to the point where our customers are confident in ordering regularly from us. I should also just remind everyone that once we progress to this point of trials with customers, they're paying for the product. So they clearly see something there that's worth continuing to dig in and refine their process in using our products. So that also gives us confidence.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Right. So that leads me to my next point. So when I look at these results, it looks like there are really 3 drivers for the good performance. Correct me if I'm wrong. One appears to be the pulp trialing with your major customer, the other is wood products acceleration and second is the heightened trialing revenue that you're receiving. Is that correct?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Yes, that's correct. I would also say that in some of the packaging and specialty paper applications, we've also seen some good growth. It was really across all verticals. So with some of our coating products as well for specialty papers, we've seen some good growth there.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Okay. I want to turn to pulp though, because the trialing activity, it's progressing faster than I thought. It sounds like this pace of trialing, as you mentioned, it's continuing into Q4. Have you got feedback on end customer reception to date?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Yes. And I mean it's both quantifiable in the orders we're receiving, but also it's anecdotal from them in terms of -- I mean, we're hearing that they have customers that are clamoring for the product. And I think that's led to the accelerated pace of taking product from us, turning it into pulp and getting it out there. We do know that there have been customers that have now gone past just an initial trial and have done repeat orders for product. Not to the point yet, I think, where our customer would consider this to be fully commercial, but we're definitely getting closer to that point. And of course, for us, we won't consider it fully commercial until they do, but it's now starting to show up as meaningful revenue with meaningful margins behind it.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Right. And I believe, if I'm correct, 1 line -- 1 full line would be close to $40 million to $50 million to you. And I believe this is to address a structural gap in the market. Would there not be the potential in time that the cost savings or premium product from your application could lead to the potential use on existing lines potentially?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Yes, for sure. And I believe that our customer is positioning the product in the market that way as a premium product. I think they are looking to add value to their commodity pulp through using our product. But the biggest opportunity they have is to address the shortfall in the stronger long fiber softwood pulp out there in the market that is in declining supply or even steady supply in some markets, which isn't enough to keep pace with demand for tissue and packaging, and they're looking to fill that gap. But when they're filling the gap, they are selling this as a premium product above their standard product. So you're right, it is both.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

And just to be clear, the gap is about 2 million tonnes, and that's greater than 1 full line, correct?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Yes, that's the way they've identified it. So they see a gap of about 2 million tonnes of pulp. And yes, I mean, they have very, very large pulp mills. So the average pulp mill size for them would be in the range of 2 million tonnes.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Right. Okay. Last quarter, I think you mentioned that other pulp players had taken notice. Have the numbers trialing in pulp increased as your trialing success with your major customer accelerates?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

In terms of, I'll say, the starting stages of that, yes. One in particular, which is a smaller player working with a very different kind of pulp has made pretty good progress. And I would say there are others that are at the earliest stage of activity.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Okay. But it's obviously taking notice and it's capturing attention in the market.

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Yes, absolutely.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Okay. Can we talk about IKEA because -- wood products, I apologize, because this seems to be getting some additional traction as well. I think it's being lost in the radar a little bit. Does your comment mean that the second line should be operating in full in 2025? And how far along you are third-party suppliers? I believe some of them have already done testing previously. And I guess my final question on that is, would it make sense -- well, why don't you answer that first?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Yes. I think with the progress we've made at the second mill through the course of this year, I think everyone involved would expect that this is at a commercial level at least sometime in 2025, but we're actually doing the work this week to take the next step and things have gone very well. So yes, at some point in 2025, I think that's everybody's expectation.

The third-party suppliers into that account, we had done work with prior to the direct involvement in this program, I would say those were early-stage activities where they wanted to be ready for the point we're kind of at now to have some initial experience and know that they could do it and understand the economics a little bit better. But it's now a fully collaborative effort between everyone involved ourselves, the third-party suppliers, the key strategic account working together to get to that goal. So expectation is that they're going to be supplying them wood panels sometime in the near future here.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Okay, so full steam ahead. So that leads me to my last question on key -- on wood products, excuse me. Would it make sense that this could be a $10 million to $15 million run rate or exit rate by the end of 2025 based on those assumptions?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Well, I think an important point, we've put out there some guidance in the past on how big an account can be to us. And our initial conservative view on it was $1.5 million to $3 million per line. Safe to say, on a run rate basis, now we're through that. And we're through that as a result of one of the things I mentioned there, they've adopted several of our new products in addition to the initial DuraBind product that -- that we offered to them. So the potential we thought was there for new products has been realized as well. So if you take that and spread it across the other lines we're active on, then for sure, we could be in that range. They control the pace, though. So they put out there that they want to be fully converted to bio-based resins by 2030. That's a lot of work within 5 years. But ultimately, they control the pace of how and when that happens. But we're definitely getting ready for it.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Okay. Personal Care, any notable advances from Dow? Seems pretty modest, but as you said, there appears to be some products in shelves, which is a bit encouraging. I think you said Hidratei. Is the pipeline growing? Should we expect something a bit more material in 2025?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

So I'm going to keep my feet on the ground and expect step by step for now, which is showing up. I mean this has been a nice year of growth from a very small base for us, and it's great business when we get it. We're producing it here in Burlington, and it's a great business to have. They still work on the very large opportunities, which clearly take much longer than some of these new upstart brands, which they and their channel partners are supporting. And we're continuing to see wins like that.

So we just -- we wanted to highlight one example of what that looks like to us, but there are several of these emerging brands that they're having success with. And that's what happens when you've got a shift toward all natural ingredients and a shift toward a specific ingredient like ours. It's usually the smaller emerging players that rock the boat and then either get eaten up or cause the other -- the other bigger players to make similar changes. And I think we're seeing that. They remain extremely engaged working with us on new products. They've launched 8 new applications that are different from the original hair fixative work that they did. So clearly remains a very important driver for their move to all natural ingredients. So we're sticking with them.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Excellent. Good margin business. We'd like to see that grow for sure. Okay. So last question. So one of the most exciting parts of the release, and I'm talking not so much from a details perspective, but in terms of the actual results was you actually generated positive free cash flow this quarter. It illustrates that if this continues, that you're self-sustaining. So assume you'll continue with the NCIB, would you increase it assuming this path continues? Or do you need more CapEx to start a second shift in Burlington? Any color would be appreciated. Are you thinking of a second shift in Burlington?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Definitely thinking of a second shift. So we've got a nice little team here that we've built and part of building that team is looking toward how we'll fill out a second shift as volumes continue to grow from here. But with the success we're achieving with strategic partners, we actually have some requests on the table still to be very vetted and put business plans behind. But we have requests from key strategic partners to be expanding in different geographies. And if the volumes are there to justify that, that's what the growth capital is there for, and we'd love to use it that way. So I mean, that's expansion with our existing partners in the Netherlands. There's some work that we'd like to be able to do there to expand what we can offer from there as well as some other strategic expansion in other markets. And we're very fortunate to have that available to be able to support that expansion. I'd rather be out working with these strategic partners than out raising capital. That's for sure.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Okay. But we can assume the NCIB will continue at the existing rate then.

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Yes. No [indiscernible] change.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Yes. Excellent. Last question, Rob. A number of companies like yourself that are U.S. dollar-denominated, but Canadian reported are not seeing the benefit in their share price. I'm just curious if you can share how much of your cash, I think it's USD 33 million. How much of that cash is U.S. denominated, please?

[Robert Haire, executive]

Yes. So, Brian, the majority of our cash is held in U.S. dollars, predominantly because we're U.S. functional and the majority of our operating costs and business expenses, quite frankly, are in U.S. dollars. So we're in round numbers, $30 million out of our $33 million at the quarter end would be U.S. dominated. And then the other side of it is from an operating expense standpoint, we have probably about $5 million of Canadian expenses on an annualized basis that are obviously favored today with where the currencies sit at.

[Brian Morrison, analyst]

Okay, excellent. I'm sorry to take up so much of your time, guys, but good quarter and I look forward to seeing getting some contracts across that finish line.

[Operator]

And the next question comes from the line of Daniel Marks from Stonehouse Capital.

[Daniel Marks, analyst]

Great quarter, guys. Congrats.

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Thank you, Dan.

[Daniel Marks, analyst]

I think Brian covered off a lot of the big issue stuff, so mine might be into the minutia. But Rob, you mentioned that you passed on the lower manufacturing costs. Is that across all your segments? Or are there any areas of revenues that you find are a little bit more price sticky?

[Robert Haire, executive]

So it is across all the major other verticals that we're going at -- going after, Dan. Probably the only exception would be personal care, where it's more of a contracted price versus following a commodity price. We're also -- in many of those cases, we weren't contracted to pass on those prices, but we're doing that in order to try to accelerate our demand and ensure that we're being competitive against any of the petrol-based chemicals out there that we have seen dropping in price over the last year or so.

[Daniel Marks, analyst]

Okay. So even in the pulp segment, the price cuts would be passed along?

[Robert Haire, executive]

We have seen price decreases in the pulp side, yes.

[Daniel Marks, analyst]

Okay. With regard to pricing and commodity inputs, I noticed that you increased your forward commitments for raw material inputs from about $800,000 to over $2 million quarter-over-quarter. Is that a view on corn prices or input prices, I should say? Or is that a sign that you're expecting volumes to go up and therefore, you want to at least hedge a portion of your input cost?

[Robert Haire, executive]

Yes. I wouldn't read too much into that, Dan. It really is just timing of orders. We definitely have seen throughout the year some better pricing on the corn side -- on the corn starch side. But yes, that is more driven by just our production schedule. I would say our inventory levels this quarter were pretty thin. So we definitely want to put a bit more buffer into our inventory levels just to make sure that we're meeting our customer needs as we receive the orders. But yes, I wouldn't read too much into the timing of those orders.

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Probably the more important thing that's changed over the last 18 months plus, Dan, is just us being focused on ensuring we had supply and having safety stock at times versus the starch being quite available to us today. So on a much more regular drumbeat.

[Daniel Marks, analyst]

Got it. You both segue nicely into my next question, inventory. Inventory is down quarter-over-quarter despite sales being up substantially. Is that driven by consolidating North America into Burlington? Or is this operational efficiencies that you've uncovered? Or what flavor can you give us on that?

[Robert Haire, executive]

Yes. The consolidation of our production here to Burlington has absolutely helped because now we're [Technical Difficulty] produce. So that has definitely contributed to it. But also the accelerated sales, so there's a quicker turn happening on our inventory right now. I would say from a guidance perspective, not that we provide any guidance, but this quarter was definitely light from an inventory perspective standpoint.

[Daniel Marks, analyst]

Got it. Last question, and Jeff, you alluded to this already, but I'd love a little bit more flavor in terms of the lumpiness of your orders, in particular, geographically, Lithuania wasn't a 10% plus customer last quarter at a $3 million run rate. It's a 16% contributor at $5 million, so a substantial increase quarter-over-quarter. Is that all lumpiness? Or is there any kind of trend in there that we can decipher as well?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

I think you have both there, Dan. So we definitely went through a period where the customer involved in that region went through a slower period. And so when we're comparing to the prior period, there was definitely some lumpiness there. But I think the more important thing is that in Q3, and it looks like going forward, they've stepped up to the accelerated run rate that they've said they would. And that's what's showing up on the positive side of it.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] And the next question comes from the line of [ Ted Hyland ].

[Unknown Analyst]

Just a question as a shareholder on the buyback. How come the share count, the float doesn't go down. I think we got 58 million shares you're buying back. How come we're not seeing that share count go down?

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Yes. Thanks for the question, Ted. During the year -- in the earlier part of the year, we did have some stock options that had fully vested in the business. And essentially, the buyback this year has offset the requirement on the issuance of those shares. So that's the reason why you're seeing on a 2024 year-to-date basis that the share count has essentially been relatively flat.

[Daniel Marks, analyst]

Okay. I mean to benefit all shareholders, if the share count went down, that would benefit all shareholders, not just management and -- but why not consider a small dividend instead of doing the buyback?

[Robert Haire, executive]

Yes. It's -- I mean, right now, capital remains absolutely critical to the business. We consider ourselves to be in a very early stage of our business with significant growth potential ahead of us. So we're really trying to hold on to our capital to make sure that, first off, we're here to be able to service the accounts that we're working with, which are all typically multi-billion dollar type businesses that look at us from a risk perspective and want to make sure that we have a balance sheet to be here. So dividends isn't part of our capital structure or isn't part of our strategy today, absolutely will be considered in the future. We do feel that right now, we're investing somewhat in a similar way to what we invest in R&D into our NCIB program, and we do it on a daily basis so that over time here, we feel that we will reduce our share count. I'm sorry, Ted?

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me?

[Robert Haire, executive]

I can. Yes. Sorry, it was just some background coming through the phone. Yes. So I mean, we feel that we [Technical Difficulty] great program that we're doing right now, and it's going to be very beneficial to shareholders over the long term.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] It seems like no further questions. I will now turn the call over to the speakers. Please go ahead.

[Jeff MacDonald, executive]

Thanks again to everyone for joining us today, and we look forward to sharing more news soon.

[Operator]

Thank you. This concludes our conference for today. Thank you all for participating. You may now disconnect.