EcoSynthetix Inc

TSX:ECO

Earnings Call Transcript 2021-Q1

[Operator]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the EcoSynthetix 2021 First Quarter Results Conference call. [Operator Instructions] Listeners are reminded that portions of today's discussion may contain forward-looking statements that reflect current views with respect to future events. Any such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected in the forward-looking statements. For more information on EcoSynthetix's risks and uncertainties related to these forward-looking statements, please refer to the company's annual information from dated March 3, 2021, posted on SEDAR. This morning's call is being recorded on Wednesday, May 5, 2021, at 8:30 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Jeff MacDonald, Chief Executive Officer of EcoSynthetix. Please go ahead, sir.

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

Thank you, operator, and good morning. Thanks, everyone, for joining us today. Yesterday afternoon, we released our 2021 first quarter results, which you can find on our website at ecosynthetix.com. You can also download a copy of the slides that accompany today's call from our website or alternatively access them on the webcast. It's been just over a year since the onset of the pandemic, and our business has changed a great deal during that time, mostly for the better, despite some of the challenges we have faced. Overall, I feel that we're in a better position today than at any time since I've joined the company. The general economic recovery has improved our position in the paper market with volumes recovering and prices improving. Our diversification strategy to a multiple-shots-on-goal approach is starting to impact our revenue composition and our margin contribution. Thirdly, we continue to generate inbound interest from manufacturers that are looking to green their portfolios with the sustainable bio-based attributes of our polymers. These include both companies that know and have used our technology as well as new contacts that we have never dealt with before. The business is in a good position to deliver improved results in the second quarter and on the right trajectory for a strong second half of 2021. In the first quarter, we started to see this rebound. Revenue was $3.7 million, which is an improvement from the depth of the pressure we saw in May and the continued pressure in the back half of 2020. We continue to generate positive cash from operations, which was $400,000 in the quarter. We also continue to maintain a strong balance sheet with $41.9 million in cash on hand and no debt. Taking a look more closely at our 3 key markets, we'll start with paper and paperboard. Macro demand in the key market we track, coated-free sheet paper, has started to recover. In March 2021, shipments were down 9% according to industry estimates versus the 21% decline in Q1 versus last year. Both of these metrics are much better than the trough experienced in May of 2020 when shipments were down more than 50%. The destocking experienced in the later stages of 2020 appears to have reversed with inventory restocking as the economy looks forward to a recovery. In short, demand in graphic paper has recovered to a more normal macro attrition rate that was experienced pre-pandemic. This improvement supported improved volumes for EcoSphere compared to the second half of 2020. At the same time, we benefited from rising oil prices and tight supply in the petrochemical market, which drove SB latex prices higher in the first quarter. SB latex pricing is back above $1 a pound, which improves the value proposition and pricing dynamics for EcoSphere. We continue to see new opportunities on the packaging and specialty side of the business for applications like green sustainable packaging, tissue and pulp. The attributes of our bio-based polymers are highly attractive to these manufacturers, and these are growth markets, unlike coated paper. We have several exciting projects in the pipeline from early work to advanced-stage commercial trials. These opportunities could be meaningful to the business, if successful. We believe our EcoSphere solution will continue to be a standard ingredient for the paper and packaging manufacturers that use it and that it will remain a foundational part of our business. But paper does not offer the same opportunity for growth that the personal care and wood composites markets offer. On the personal front, we continue our work with the global chemical company that is our development and marketing partner in personal care. They're highly engaged, investing resources in development and go-to-market strategies that drive awareness and adoption. During Q1, their product was recognized by a major personal care brand with a sustainability award for beauty care. The award relates to the first formulation using our binder that they have taken to market for hair fixatives. As part of the partnership, we are developing both new hair fixative ingredients for them as well as new ingredients for other product lines outside of hair care. The hair fixative market on its own represents an approximately $350 million opportunity for our binder with strong margins. Our partner is now preparing for the fall and spring seasons of marketing. As consumers return to a more normal life post the pandemic, such as going out in public, demand for personal care products is expected to improve. We also believe the demand and interest in sustainable, healthier ingredients will be a continuing tailwind in the personal care category. We view the personal care opportunity as a warrant to our growth. Our key growth market today and moving forward remains wood composites. Our leading commercial customer in this market, SWISS KRONO, remains highly engaged from both a production standpoint as well as a marketing and lead generation standpoint. They are running demand on multiple lines within their manufacturing base. The investment made in product and process development as well as marketing is beginning to gain traction in the market. The volumes they used in Q1 and in the first part of Q2 have improved significantly over the same period in 2020. The competitive profile of their BE.YOND particleboard differentiates them in the market as the most environmentally friendly wood panel on the market. In April, the BE.YOND product was recognized by the influential, Interzum Guangzhou, event in China as one of the top 20 innovations in furniture and home furnishings. The award recognized the highest renewable content and very low formaldehyde emissions from BE.YOND, which are consistent with natural. The market for wood composites resins with high bio content and no formaldehyde remains relatively untapped in particleboard and medium density fiberboard. We believe DuraBind resin can make a meaningful impact as consumers demand no added formaldehyde solutions and companies in the value chain look to improve their carbon footprints. This opportunity represents the strongest growth vector in our portfolio of biopolymer binders, and we are extremely excited about the stage that we have reached in our commercialization strategy. Momentum with our key strategic wood composites prospect is accelerating, and they are highly engaged. Due to confidentiality, it's challenging to express the confidence we have in the stage that we have reached with them, but it speaks to the optimism with which I opened the call that we have never been as confident in the prospects of the business. Based on the work plan schedule, we expect that this account will become a more meaningful part of our business in 2021. The macro demand for wood panels is extremely robust with building and construction activity high. For backward retailers and manufacturers producing more board within their internal operations puts them at a competitive advantage. At the same time, consumers and retailers are increasingly focused on the environmental impact of the products and inputs they choose to buy and the impacts those choices have on their individual or corporate carbon footprints. The fact that we can help panel manufacturers produce panels of the same or better quality at competitive production rates and deliver this sustainability value, puts us in a unique position today. More broadly, the focus on carbon footprint is driving interest in our portfolio of sustainable biopolymers. Our ingredients can help manufacturers and retailers address their carbon reduction targets. For instance, we have quantified the impact our biopolymer can have for a typical paper mill. A mill can reduce its carbon footprint by 5% or more, depending on the level of substitution with which they use EcoSphere. That represents a meaningful contribution from just one input change. Manufacturers of all types are searching for new solutions. As an example, IKEA highlights in its sustainability report, a series of important steps they are taking to meet their climate-positive target, including steps that require changes within their supply chain. Their report highlights that fossil-based glues for their wood-based products represent 6% of IKEA's total climate footprint. The report identifies fossil-based glues as one of the main areas where movement can be made. Our strongest growth opportunity remains the wood composites market. It is the largest of our 3 target markets. We are working with customers and prospects that are highly engaged in adopting NAF solutions, and our bio-based solutions offer material benefits to their carbon footprint and to their end users. Our #1 priority is delivering wins in wood composites. The market is moving to us, and we have an offering that meets its needs. With that, I'll turn it over to Rob to review the financials. Rob?

[Robert Martin Haire, CFO & Corporate Secretary]

Thanks, Jeff, and good morning. From a top line perspective, net sales were $3.7 million in Q1 2021 compared to $4.2 million in the same period of 2020. The decrease was primarily due to lower volumes, which impacted sales by $400,000 or 11% and lower average selling prices, which impacted sales by $100,000 or 2%. The pressure on our top line was primarily due to unfavorable market conditions brought on by COVID-19, which reduced global demand for paper products and created adverse market pricing dynamics. But as Jeff mentioned, the macro demand environment for paper continues to improve as we get deeper into 2021 compared to the declines we saw last year. Gross profit was $800,000 in the quarter, down $300,000 compared to the same period in 2020. The decrease was due to lower volumes, lower average selling price and higher manufacturing costs. Net of manufacturing depreciation, gross profit as a percentage of sales was 26% in the quarter compared to 29.8% for the same period in 2020. SG&A expenses were $1.2 million in the quarter, a decrease of $200,000 or 13% compared to the same period in 2020. R&D expenses were $300,000 in the quarter compared to $400,000 in the same period in 2020. The decreases in SG&A and R&D expenses were primarily due to $150,000 COVID support payments from the government and lower discretionary spending. Adjusted EBITDA loss was $300,000 in the quarter compared to a $200,000 loss in the same period in 2020. The change is primarily due to lower gross profit, partially offset by lower operating costs. We generated positive cash flow from operations of $400,000 during the quarter and invested $200,000 in NCIB share buybacks. At March 31, 2021, we had $41.9 million in cash compared to $42 million as of December 31, 2020. We've demonstrated our ability to responsibly manage our cash reserves through multiple cycles while continuing to invest in our long-term growth strategy. With Jeff -- with that, I will turn it back to Jeff for closing comments.

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

Thanks, Rob. As we begin to emerge from the pandemic and the economic recovery gains momentum, we believe our business is in a great position. We are on the right trajectory to demonstrate a return to growth in 2021. Our diversification strategy is gaining traction. The contribution from our new markets and the R&D investments we've made are poised to begin making a meaningful impact going forward. Volumes with our first wood composite customers, SWISS KRONO, are growing. Momentum with our key strategic wood composites prospects is accelerating, and they are highly engaged. As the stay-at-home restrictions are lifted, our development and marketing partner in personal care expects to see more momentum in new product launches of all-natural formulations that use our binders. The macro demand in paper improved from the depths of last year, and the market dynamics on pricing have strengthened our proposition. The value of our bio-based solutions in today's market is stronger than ever before. Our biopolymers can directly help organizations achieve their carbon reduction targets within their supply chains. We have the technology and the financial strength, and we're working with the right customers and partners to make a difference in our target market. We appreciate the trust and patience that our shareholders have shown, and I look forward to updating you further as we make progress. With that, I'll turn it back to the operator to open up the call for questions. Thank you.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Dan Marks with Stonehouse.

[Daniel Marks]

Great quarter and even better to hear your positive outlook. I think this is as bullish as I think I've heard you guys. So good stuff. Just wonder if you could -- with regards to SWISS KRONO, mentioning how it looks like it's gaining traction, anything that's happened in the last couple of quarters that you think has really helped boost that? I mean, the relationship with SWISS KRONO goes back to almost 3 years since they've been in production. What do you figure is triggering that? And secondly, how would you compare where they are in terms of their business booming and your prospect, your key wood composite prospect? Are they in a similar position, just not as public about it? Or what flavor can you give us on that?

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

Thanks for joining us, and thanks for recognizing we are feeling pretty good about the business. That's what you should hear from us today. Let's start with the last point. Make no mistake, SWISS KRONO is much further ahead just by virtue of the time that they've spent with our products. And I say products, and this is one of the things that I think has helped us to continue to gain momentum with them. We talk about DuraBind collectively, but DuraBind now over the course of 6 years, it's actually a collection of products that's tailored to each of the applications' needs of our customers, and even in some cases, tailored to an individual line and how we can get the most out of the line. SWISS KRONO has got more out of our products almost on a quarterly basis as we continue to optimize things with them. So that's led to improved usage, and I think improved results for both of us, but they're also beginning to see the impact of the marketing efforts they've put into BE.YOND. We've said, it's a long game. They've said, it's a long game. I don't think any of us expected how long, but I think just with the conditions in the market, the demand of consumers, the carbon footprint reduction targets that companies are looking for, they're starting to see the impact of putting this green product out there. And we should also -- the award that they won is quite interesting actually, Interzum Guangzhou is the China version of Interzum. And Interzum is kind of the name and trade shows when it comes to home decor, home furnishing. And the award that they won is one of the top 20 innovations, not just in wood panels, but across all home decor and home furnishing. So very well recognized. And I think part of what they've done smartly is, they've tapped into the recovery that's been taking place in China. And along with that sort of general in the market, there is a clear demand within China for healthier home products. And I think they've been doing some work there, and I think they're starting to see the fruits of that. And I think it was great that they got recognized the way that they did with that award. So awards are always a little bit fluffy, but I think it's indicative and meaningful of what they've accomplished, and that they're starting to see some impact from their marketing efforts.

[Daniel Marks]

Got it. And is there -- does -- what you're seeing from their learning process, if you will, help speed up efforts? Like it sounds like your prospect, you're expecting good things in the second half of this year. Are they -- do you think they'll be able to ramp to meaningful volumes quicker as a result of what you've learned with SWISS KRONO?

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

No, I don't think -- we have to be really careful to keep a firewall between learnings in each line and each set of expectations, a customer is quite different. So I don't think the SWISS KRONO experience directly helps the IKEA experience. But what does is simply the amount of time and effort that we put into getting them along within their operations, which has been over a long period of time, but has accelerated really over the last year. We've seen an increased level of commitment. We've seen a great level of sticking to schedule and really a great level of conviction to pushing this ahead at all levels, and it jives completely with their overall sustainability plan. So I think the speed of adoption that can occur is really largely due to the investments and commitment that they've made kind of alongside our efforts to support that.

[Daniel Marks]

Got it. Switching gears to one more question. You seem very positive about personal care. There is more mention of it in your press release and so on. Obviously, a winning award, again, is good. Maybe you could give us a little flavor as to what that award means in the personal care segment? And obviously, revenues recovered from the previous quarter by a substantial amount. Are you seeing any revenues in that area? Or other signs? It sounds like that's very positive. Just looking for a little more flavor as to maybe is that something we're going to see in 2021? Or is that still like getting things going so that, that contribution may come in 2022?

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

We're still hopeful, and it's because our partner is hopeful that we'll see some impact towards the back half of this year. I think, I mean, unfortunately, it is still largely anecdotal, any positive feelings that we have because it really hasn't shown up meaningfully in results yet. We continue to get small orders, which I would say, are feeding new product opportunities and for some niche products. The award, I can't really speak to the details of it other than to say that when you have a major brand recognizing an ingredient like that and the 2 companies kind of patting each other on the back on social media, usually means that there is something good happening in the background. So we're hopeful that, that level of activity that they're talking about together turns into some big product launches that use our product. I'll give you an interesting anecdotal one, though. Just personally, we buy at home some of the Aveda all-natural products. And when our online shipment arrived last week, there was a special free sample, and I know it was actually a pretty good sized free sample. If you spend $50 or more, you got this extra bottle of stuff. And lo and behold, we were one of the key ingredients in that new product that they were beginning to introduce to the market. So things like that are beginning to happen. And I think we're seeing the tone in some of these online virtual trade shows beginning to shift toward, be ready for when you get to go out again. And from the ingredient suppliers, like our partner, they're putting on programs to help their formulation customers, be ready products for when that happens. So the tone seems to be changing. Those are the indicators we're looking for. Again, it's anecdotal. It feels good. And personally, I remain excited simply because they are and as long as that level of enthusiasm remains there and the level of commitment and investment on their side remains there, I'm going to feel good about it, and we'll continue to invest. They've continued to take in new products from us. I think in the last 12 months, it's been over 60 new ingredient samples we sent to them, which they've been working through in their labs, preparing for the future beyond just the first hair fixative launch they've made. So lots of good activity, lots of enthusiasm, signals from the market that maybe it's beginning to change, but still anecdotal. That's kind of why we call it kind of a warrant against our growth. That's how we see it, and we'll only get truly excited when it begins to create returns for our partner and us.

[Operator]

The next question comes from the line of Gerry Wimmer with Investorfile.

[Gerry Wimmer]

Jeff, I want to echo the previous caller's comments. You sound very, very bullish. I guess there is good reason that you know why. On the revenues in Q1, you mentioned SWISS KRONO is more active now, I guess, promoting their ecofriendly products. How much contribution in Q1 comes from the wood composite market? And if any contribution -- revenue contribution, even if it's minor, is already coming from your other strategic partner in this sector.

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

Gerry, thanks for joining us. So we don't offer a lot of detailed color on the split between markets simply because so far, they really haven't been meaningful enough to do that. We've always said, the other markets represent less than 10% of our activity. That's beginning to get to the point where the contribution of SWISS KRONO and wood composites and some of our other diversification efforts are getting bigger. We felt for the first time that SWISS KRONO represented a pretty meaningful part of our business in Q1, and we're optimistic as we start to see the results coming in for Q2 that, that continues. I can't really give any more granularity than that other than to say, it's significant than it has been before in terms of our overall diversification revenue and contribution. The contribution margins that we expected from these diversification strategies are at or above where we expected them to be. We've signaled that we do expect significantly better contribution margins than what we've achieved in paper and that's coming through. But otherwise, not meaningful enough yet for us to start to give any more granularity, but we're feeling pretty good that it's on the right trajectory.

[Gerry Wimmer]

Could you comment if there's any revenue -- pilot revenue occurring from your other strategic partner in this sector -- in wood composites sector?

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

In wood composites, no, I can't comment on that. We hope to be able to soon, but I can't comment on that. Rest assured, they have been taking product from us. We've been getting paid for that product. We've said that for some time. It hasn't crossed the point yet where we would consider it material as a revenue contribution part of our business, though.

[Gerry Wimmer]

Okay. Fair enough. And what -- and maybe Rob wants to comment on that or -- the gross margins were lower this quarter compared to the year prior. Other than the lower volumes, what pressures were on gross margin this quarter? And where do you see gross margins going in the paper coating market in the next quarter or 2 quarters out?

[Robert Martin Haire, CFO & Corporate Secretary]

Yes. So our gross margin this quarter on a cash basis was 26% compared to close to 30% year-over-year. Q1 last year, I would say, was a high quarter from us from a gross margin perspective. From the full year perspective, we came at around 27%, which was obviously much closer to what we saw this quarter. With the book of business that we have today, that's within our range of expectations, the margins that we saw. I think as we see more mix on our business moving towards wood composites and definitely, more mix moving towards personal care, in the midterm, we will see what, I would say, 30% plus kind of blended margins. But traditionally in the paper segment when we're heavily concentrated there, we've seen margins in the 20% to 25% range, just to kind of give you some brackets. We are seeing some manufacturing cost pressure right now, a big one, as everyone knows. Our main feedstock is corn stock. The corn market on a spot basis is up significantly right now. It's moved off, call it, $4 a bushel average cost last year to as high as $7 recently. For that, that can put -- that does put some pressure on our cost of goods sold. We are -- the positive side of it, though, is the pricing dynamics is really driven by our competitive technologies like SB latex, which are up 2x to 3x the cost increases that we're seeing on the price of corn. So right now, we're really just having to focus on our pricing dynamics to make sure that we can maintain margins in the ranges that you're saying. So I think it was a little bit of a long-winded answer, but I hope it answered.

[Gerry Wimmer]

No. No. I appreciate that. One final question. In a recent presentation you made to an investment group, Smallcap Discoveries, Rob, you talked about the company becoming much more -- objective to be more engaged with the investment community or analyst coverage and things like that. Have you been able to have more meaningful discussions with potential coverage or new institutional investors? Or just give me a little update on what has transpired in turn -- meeting some of those objectives that you felt you wanted to achieve in 2021?

[Robert Martin Haire, CFO & Corporate Secretary]

Yes. No, absolutely. Right now, we don't have any formal analyst coverage. I know, Gerry, you do provide some coverage, and we really appreciate that. We've been doing a fair bit of, what I would say, marketing to the bank side to see if we can get some analyst coverage. It is a strategic goal for the business. And we're -- quite frankly, it's been a year now where we haven't been able to actively get out and market the company just due to travel restrictions. So I know Jeff and I do plan on spending more time out once the travel restrictions get lifted, not because we think we have a great story. We think that we're on a transformative part -- spot for the business right now. And definitely, there seems to be a lot more customer interest, and I also think investor interest in true green sustainable plays. So we're anxious and excited to start trying to get -- hate to use this word, but more eyeballs on the story.

[Gerry Wimmer]

Okay. Great. My final question, Jeff. You mentioned in your comments about, I guess, other products, I believe, in the personal care space, you get inquiries about or maybe within other customers. Can you just generally say what types of products these may be or give a little overview of what that could be?

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

Yes. Sure, Gerry. I think I mentioned it kind of in 2 veins: One was within personal care, and we've not slept with the ingredients that we've already provided to our personal care partner. We continue to feed them with new ingredients. And of course, our opportunity in that space is an exclusive one with them. So it's been ingredients that hope to enhance further the hair fixative opportunity, but also begin to delve in other areas outside of hair fixatives, within personal care. And our agreement with them also covers home care. So there have been some ingredients that could make their way into home care formulations, cleaning products, dish washing products, detergent products and things like that. And I think I also referenced that in broader terms within the pulp and paper, I'll use the term that broadly within the pulp and paper market. I mean we're mostly exposed to the graphic paper market, which is a declining market, as we said. But there are segments, if we look more broadly, within pulp and paper that are growing; tissue, packaging board. The pulp market is super overheated right now. And we have polymers that are showing some interesting properties in some of those new growth markets, and we have several projects on the go. Some of them still lab collaborations with partners, but some of them already to fairly advanced stage commercial trials where we're engaged in some long runs on some of these new polymers. And so we're hopeful at this point that those are things we can begin talking about as having a meaningful impact on 2022. We're fairly conservative in that way. We stick to our product development process and sort of when we talk about things. But generally, we're excited about those things, and we hope to be able to talk more specifically about some of them as levers for 2022.

[Gerry Wimmer]

Okay. Well, good conference call. It looks like the business may be at an inflection point in terms of commercialization on some of these initiatives we've been talking about for the last year. So I look forward to the coming quarters.

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

Great. Thanks for your interest and support, Gerry.

[Operator]

The next question comes from the line of Brian Morrison with private investors.

[Unknown Attendee]

Jeff, my follow-up on the question with respect to expanding product lines within PCP, specifically the hair -- home care formulations. Are you able to give a market size much like you did for the hair fixative market?

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

No, we don't have it in that level of granularity. But I mean, for our partner, home and personal care represents a multibillion-dollar business. So it's a multi, multi billion-dollar market. The volumes in home care are significantly greater than some of the, what I'll call, a little bit more niche volumes in personal care. Volumes are bigger, but margins tend to be a little bit lower as those are a little bit more commoditized markets. But I guess to again use the sentiment and excitement of our partner as the proxy for how we look at these, they regularly tell us. If we try to get more granularity to, say, how do we think about this for our stage-gate process, the standard answer is, look, remember who we are. We don't waste our time on little opportunities. If this wasn't a meaningful multimillion-dollar opportunity for you and for us, we just wouldn't be spending the time on it. So we kind of take that as our lead, given that we're not really the experts in home and personal care. Does that give you enough, Brian? I suppose that much is we have and what we rely on.

[Unknown Attendee]

That's fair. And then in terms of -- maybe you can just clarify it for me, when you talk about expanding within paper, the packaging market, what does that mean? Is that cardboard partially?

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

Yes. It can be container board, so packaging board. One of the things that's happening around the world as things are getting shipped more and more versus people buying them is -- and I guess along with the green trend as well, there is just more and more of a recycling loop of packaging board fiber. And as those fibers within a piece of, call it, cardboard or packaging board, as they make the rounds over and over again, they get beat up and they become less and less useful as their strength gets depleted. And so we're looking at some polymers that help return some of that strength and allow packaging board to be produced with some lower-cost inputs. Those recycled fibers are lower cost, but still achieve similar performance with some green benefits added in as well. So it's stuff like that, that we're looking at. And that's sort of a big picture, longer-term on the packaging side. But closer to home and one that we've been working on for a longer period of time is food wraps. If any of you saw yesterday, Burger King made an announcement about packaging generally and moving toward more sustainable options, but specifically, they talked about burger wraps and going to something that was not only more sustainable, but more healthy, which is something that others within the space have also been pursuing, McDonald's, Subway, others. And we have multiple touch points on the go right now for coating solutions for those burger wraps. It's a really interesting space. It's a decent value space. It is still fairly niche though as well. So it's going to be kind of a collection of these niche ones, I think, as we get started in any of these new opportunities. But collectively, they can look pretty interesting.

[Unknown Attendee]

I did see that. And one more question. I don't know if you'll be able to answer this, Jeff, so I'll be careful how I ask it. But you say you're delivering product to a strategic partner and getting paid for it. Are you able to comment where that product is actually going? Is that going into their current operations?

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

I mean, yes, for sure. I mean we've been working with them in their operations for some time. So anything that we're shipping to them is going into their operations, and that ultimately gets incorporated into their end products.

[Unknown Attendee]

Okay. And then last question, I saw that you were active with your buyback this quarter, almost near at the current level. I wonder what your plan is, if you continue to expect to be active, if opportunity presents itself?

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

Yes. For sure, we do. It's -- the buyback will be renewed. That's in the works right now. And we expect to be continuing on in a similar manner to what we've done for the last few years. So yes, continue to expect that from us.

[Operator]

We have a question from Stuart Mckeen.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes. Can you hear me?

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

Yes.

[Unknown Analyst]

Okay. Just you touched on it a bit as far as commodity prices go, but the sky-high price of lumber, is that a headwind or a tailwind for sale of the product?

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

I kind of look at it more as indicative of commodity prices overall and specifically in the building products. One of the challenges it presents for us, in some cases, Stuart, is that with prices being so high, it's reflective of the demand in the space. And so in some cases, getting online for trials when they're so busy and they can make such great prices on what they're producing when it comes to wood panels, that can be challenging. And one of the ways that we've really overcome that challenge, in some cases, turned it into a positive is, again, with our DuraBind product offering, the continued development of it, we've worked really hard to actually go from speed being a disadvantage with no added formaldehyde resins of the past to it being an advantage for us today. And so customers don't need to be thinking about a reduced level of output, they can actually be thinking about same or better levels of output. So that's no longer an impediment when people think about no-added formaldehyde. Overall, when you say lumber specifically, we kind of just look at it as overall commodity prices increasing. But when oil as a commodity is going up, even though corn and other things are going up, we generally like that high oil price environment as all the commodity levels tend to track. And we benefit from higher pricing because of the higher prices of the oil-based competition that we have.

[Operator]

I will now turn the call back over to the host for closing remarks.

[Jeffrey Douglas MacDonald, CEO & Director]

Thanks, operator, and thanks, again, everyone, for joining us today and look forward to talking to you again soon.

[Operator]

This concludes today's presentation. You may now disconnect.