Nidec Corp

TSE:6594

Earnings Call Transcript 2021-Q2

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

Good morning, good afternoon and good evening. Thank you very much for joining the Nidec's Fiscal Year 2020 Second Quarter Conference Call. I'm Yoichi Orikasa, General Manager, Kyoto branch of Mitsubishi UFJ Morgan Stanley Securities.

As we kick off the conference, I'd like to ask you to make sure all the materials are already in front of you. If not, please download the file on Nidec's homes page at this moment.

Please note, this call is being recorded, and the confidence material will be posted on the company's home base for the coming week for investors and analysts who to revisit or cannot join today's call.

Now I would like to introduce today's attendees from Nidec Corporation. Mr. Jun Seki, Representative Director, President and Chief Operating Officer.

[Jun Seki, executive]

Hello, everyone.

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

And Akira Sato, First Senior Vice President and Chief Performance Officer.

[Akira Sato, executive]

Good Morning, everyone.

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

First, Mr. Sato will make a presentation after his presentation, we will move on to a Q&A session. And Mr. Seki and Mr. Sato will answer your questions.

Mr. Sato now presents Nidec's Q2 fiscal year 2020 results, future outlook and management strategy. Mr. Sato, please go ahead.

[Akira Sato, executive]

Thank you very much. Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to today's conference call. My name is Akira Sato, Chief Performance Officer of Nidec. And I'll be your main speaker for today. And joining me is Mr. Masahiro Nagayasu, General Manager of Nidec's IR team. And also, we have a special speaker today, who is Mr. Seki, President and Chief Operating Officer, Nidec. He is joining us in this conference call, particularly in the Q&A session.

For the forward-looking statements, please see Slide #2 of our presentation material for details.

Now I reveal the key figures. Please see Slide #3 for our first half results.

As summarized on Slide #4, the first half net sales has increased 0.1% year-on-year to JPY 751.8 billion, and operating profit has also increased 12.0% year-on-year to JPY 69.2 billion. So both net sales and operating profit have made a year-on-year increase.

The net sales for the second quarter has increased 23.2% quarter-to-quarter to JPY 414.9 billion, and marked a level high.

The operating profit for the corresponding period has increased 48.9% to JPY 41.4 billion, due to contributions from comprehensive improvements on cost structure and optimization of fixed costs through the WPR4 program. The operating profit ratio has recovered to double digit, 10.0%. As a result of all of these, we have made an upward revision to full year fiscal year 2020 financial quarter.

On Slide #5 and #6, you have a step chart showing the comparison of net sales and operating profit year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter, respectively. Buying product groups with exchange rate effect, eliminations and structural reform expenses.

As you see on Slide #6. The net sales and operating profit have increased quarter-on-quarter in all of the segments. And a small precision motors, automotive and appliance, commercial and industrial, or ACI have been the main drivers.

Please number -- please see Slide #7. Due to our continued efforts for a higher cash conversion cycle for CCC, our free cash flow is on its way to improvement from the first to second quarter. And free cash flow for the first half this fiscal year has recovered to almost the same level as the first half of fiscal year 2018.

As shown on Slide #9. We have made an upward revision to fiscal year 2020 financial forecast based on the first half results.

Please see Slide #12, which is showing changes in our regional production on a month-end basis, with the pre-pandemic average utilization ratio is assumed to be 100%. The region of Europe, Americas and Asia, excluding China and Japan whose ratios were lower than China and Japan as of the last results have caught up in the second quarter and are on their way to near full recovery.

On theWPR4 program progress, the net sales hit the bottom in the previous first quarter and operating profit in the fourth quarter of the last fiscal year. And operating profit has recovered to the double digit, 10.0% in this second quarter. We are setting even further recovery in this second half.

Please see Slide #14. The sales volume of 6 models of electric vehicles or EVs that have adopted our E-Axle, exceeded 80,000 units on a cumulative basis as of the end of September and total volume of each month in the second quarter is exceeding that of previous month.

Please see Slide #15. We are expecting that Nidec's E-Axle for the S-shaped car in the product life cycle theory and enters the super long growth stage. Last month, the Governor of California issued an executive order requiring all new cars to be zero-emission by 2035. And in the same month, our European Commission announced its plan to increase from 40% to 55% reduction of greenhouse gas emission by 2030 compared to 1990 levels as part of the European Green Deal.

Meanwhile, due to the technological innovations, the cost of EV power train is expected to become cheaper than that of the internal combustion engine or ICE, around 2024. And customers for E-Axles are spreading for initial innovators such as GAC and Geely to early adopted after the timing point year of 2025, and sales are expected to expand rapidly thereafter.

Please see Slide #16. Based on the expected rapid sales expansion of E-Axles after 2025. That I've just explained, Nidec is setting up our local R&D basis in China, where significant technological innovations, and the structural changes are happening in the EV industry.

As illustrated on the upper-right, we are planning to establish R&D center in China-Japan, Dalian Local Development Cooperation Demonstration Zone, which is almost the same scale as Shiga Technical Center, the core R&D site in Japan with 1,000 employees. Also, shown on the lower-right, the operating summary of R&D center in Suzhou was held last month, and it's already up and running now. This is one of world's biggest land site with 12,000 square meters of floor space and 36 motor testing systems.

Please see Slide #17. As we are entering the age of the CASE, which stands for Collected Autonomous, Shared and Electric. Nidec is transforming our business model from the one based solely on motors to one based on systematization and modularization in the product areas in not only E-Axles that I have mentioned, but Seat system, pump module, door system and electric power steering system in order to increase added value.

Please see Slide #18. Both our net sales and operating profit ratio of ACI are steadily on their way to improvement for the first to second quarter due to the WPR program. ACI is currently undergoing a comprehensive review of its cost structure and is ready to improve operating profit ratio by optimizing outsourcing costs, labor costs and fixed costs.

Please see Slide #19. Nidec's Compact, light-weighted and energy-efficient brushless DC motors are playing a very important role in coping with the strong demand for home appliance products on the back of the work-from-home trend caused by COVID-19, and we are seeing further growth of our brushless DC Motor business and appliances such as air conditioners, dishwashers, refrigerators, washers, dryers, blower cleaners and other vacuum cleaners.

Please see Slide #20. The shipment of Ultra-thin ultra-small fan motor, UltraFlo FDB or UFF, which is used mainly for the PC application, marked a record high demand in the second quarter for 2 consecutive quarters. UFF firmly supports the demand for work-from-home.

Please see Slide #21. On the back of explosive increase of digital data due to the fully-fledged launch of 5G Nidec offer solution to the heat generated by the faster CPU. We are aiming to achieve the sales of JPY 100 billion in this work area in fiscal year 2023 by introducing heat pipes, heat sink, vapor chambers and their modules and liquid cooling systems.

Please see Slide #24. Motors are core components of anything working with electricity. Motor accounts for approximately half of the world's power consumption. Nidec will and supply efficient motors globally and contribute the reduction of CO2 emission and economic development of emerging countries as #1 comprehensive motor manufacturer in the world.

Thank you very much for your attention. Now we would like to open up the call for your questions.

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

Thank you very much, Mr. Sato. Now we would like to turn to the Q&A session. Senior management of the company will take questions from you. [Operator Instructions]

Our first question today is from James Pulsford of Alma Capital.

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

I appreciate that in the second quarter, you did well across the board. But one of the areas that performed very strongly was that your small precision motors, HDD motor area. And I just wondered, could you give us a few comments in terms of perhaps volume data comments on ASP. And if there were any major changes to mix, so for example, sort of nearline volumes. And could you also let us know what the operating profit margin was for your HDD business in the second quarter, please?

[Masahiro Nagayasu, executive]

Okay. James, this is Nagayasu speaking. And you were asking what was the situation of the hard drive speed motor shipment for the past quarter, like a September quarter? Then we are roughly shipping 63.2 million spindle motor, where the average sale price was $7.02. Then we were shipping roughly a 17.8 million nearline, which is much larger than the previous quarter like a June quarter, okay? So clearly, we have been seeing the mix is improving and nearline is getting higher and also ASP is getting higher.

Then you were asking the profitability period for this quarter, we have -- we are a little better OP margin over the first quarter, which is the over a 31.88%.

[Unknown Executive]

September quarter, and it was 30.5% June quarter.

[Masahiro Nagayasu, executive]

Is that fine?

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

Sorry, so it was 30.5% in June, and it was 31.8%. Is that correct?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. 30.5% in June quarter.

[Masahiro Nagayasu, executive]

Yes, 30.5% in June. 31.8% in September quarter for our speed motor profitability.

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

And can I ask one follow-up question, please. Is that okay? I was interested to see in your waterfall chart that the operating profit, structural reform expenses in this first half seemed to be higher than they were in the first half last year, which surprised me. So am I correct in thinking that there were structural report expenses were JPY 6 billion in the first half of last year. And so therefore, JPY 8.2 billion this year. And were they very heavily weighted for the second quarter? Could you -- I was surprised to see such a big number. Could you comment on that, please?

[Jun Seki, executive]

Yes. So special reforming expenses. But it is JPY 4.3 billion September quarter and JPY 2.8 billion in June quarter. So -- by JPY 1.5 billion, it was increased. And mainly due to the restructure, Akira had described in the facts, that's the main the reasons why we are spending more in September quarter than in June quarter.

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

Our next question is from Satoru Ochiai of MUFG Securities EMEA.

[Satoru Ochiai;MUFG Securities EMEA;Analyst, analyst]

It's a very good opportunity because is Jun Seki joining today's call. So I would like to ask, it has been 6 months since you assumed Presidency. So what is your take on the challenges the group faces at the moment?

[Jun Seki, executive]

I will reply. But today, main Q&A must be for the financial announcement. So I would like everyone not to ask just myself, okay, since this is personal, I would like to -- You're right, 6 months, and then it's a very different world from automotive to motor part. The challenge here is speed, I would say, automotive, I don't say automotive is slow, but automotive has almost like a camel cycle from the introduction of the concept of models to make up that model happens and then sell, so like 5 years. Here, in Nidec, so fast, much shorter lead times and decision speed very fast. And then while usual company have been like executive meeting monthly, this company holds it weekly basis, at least. And if necessary, it's a daily base. So things with the decision never wait decision meeting that is the concept. And then I'm enjoying very much. I like this speed. I don't need the like 100% daily, but if it meet my sales, I'd like to like to go ahead. And then Mr. Nagamori, giving me some autonomy to go there. So that's my challenge. And I'm enjoying very much. Any questions?

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

Our next question is from [ Doug Inouye ] of MUFG.

[Unknown Analyst]

First of all, congratulations on a very strong quarter. And again, thank you so much for hosting this time line call every quarter. And a special thanks to President Seki for this opportunity to speak to you directly. As I actually never heard your voice before, so this is great.

Following up on the previous question from Ochiai, I just want to focus on the kind of bigger question, a bigger picture. Regarding the EV penetration globally. It seems that China is definitely leading the pack here. Is there any major technological difference between Chinese makers and also like the rest of the world in terms of EV technology? What they're adopting and so forth? And how is that change is going to benefit Nidec going forward?

And also, if you can kind of specifically talk about maybe production capacity increases from now to 2025. When you believe there's going to be a critical turning point? And also 2030 and so forth, that will be great.

[Jun Seki, executive]

Is that a question to Sato? Okay. Thank you. Seki will reply. First, I have to correct your assumptions. China is one of the major market but other one is Europe. China is not outstanding anymore at this moment. We don't know the future. If we look at our September sales, we call it new energy vehicles, we don't -- because EV and primary hybrid and e-POWER from Nissan, those are using like traction motors. So for us, we categorize its new energy vehicles. And the new energy vehicle sales in Europe is higher than China. So this is accelerated by additional incentive from EU's -- sorry, each country, particularly Germany and France. And then we predictions at this pace will continue for a while. So China -- both Europe and China are very important.

In terms of technologies, yes, you're right. The preference is very different. Actually, China customer, actually, China OEM, many of them don't mind if it's in-house motor or motor supplied by suppliers like us. So they have more flexibility for that choice. That's why our penetration in China is going ahead. While European OEM is a bit conservative because they developed their motors by themselves, and they are still seeking -- they have to -- they want to build by themselves. But not all of them. For example, like a PSA chose JV with us. So we're investing half and half there, enjoying our technologies and competitiveness. So time by time, it's different. But at this moment, I would say, most of the European OEM is testing if they build by themselves or if they choose outside, it's not been determine clearly.

And then, of course, some technology preference are different. I don't go detail, but voltage, like 800 passes 400 or a magnet. If it's heavily used magnet or no magnet. So these are different, but we are specialist of motor. So we are fully aligned with each preference that one. And then last point is maybe capacities. At this moment, our capacity -- our action production line is only one in China, which started to production last May. But very soon, we have a second line, which is JV with Guangzhou Automotive. And then Fabron will also launch in next year, next summer. So we have already finally plan to realign, and total capacity is about 2 million.

Then fourth one for our fan product is JV in PSA this is announced already, the channel information, and that starts production in '22. Last of the things, we have a firm, but because it's directed with our customer. I don't want to say, but our current volume prediction in '25 is reaching 2.5 million. And then in '26 and '27, rapidly grow.

So we are going to set up a capacity for not only just volume in '25, but preparation for next growth in '26 and '27. That's what we are going to do. So at today's financial announcement prior to this meeting, our Chairman said that we are going to set up 5 million in 25 million and then it's not all the message. So that we are predicting in the industry.

I don't know if I replied to all of your questions.

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

[Operator Instructions] Okay. Now going back to the Q&A session. We now take the second question from Alma Capital, James.

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

Great. Indeed. I wonder, I've got a couple of questions. Your R&D expenses in the first half of the year were only JPY 31.2 billion compared to a full year of JPY 85 billion. So your -- you seem to be expecting, well, that's a very low figure, and you're expecting a big increase in the second half of the year. Could you comment on whether that's correct and why that's the case?

And then as a sort of second one, which may be related or may not be related, I don't know. Could you comment on the specific profitability of your automotive area, which, obviously, improved a lot from the first quarter, but it's still obviously relatively depressed, and talk about product development costs for all the for all the E-Axle contracts that you're winning? And how you expect those product development costs, the ways of those to change over the next 2 or 3 years, please?

[Akira Sato, executive]

First of all, the R&D costs, as you mentioned, we spent JPY 31.2 billion in the first half, comparatively low level. That we are going to increase the R&D cost for, of course, the traction models and also the other new focused 3 new market and new customers and the new product. Those spending of R&D is really needed in the second half. So that we are expecting that R&D cost will be half to 85 billion alone in this fiscal year. That's a current status R&D cost.

What's your second question was?

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

Well, the second question was -- the fact I was with the profitability of the automotive side, which, obviously, has gone from breakeven in the first quarter to a better figure of sort of over JPY 4 billion in the second quarter. But I know that's still a relatively low figure, and it's because you're bearing a lot of product development costs for all the E-Axle future contracts that you're winning. So it's a sort of forward investment. And I wondered if you could comment on the level of product development costs for the new contracts that you're bearing this year compared to last year? And how you expect that to change over the next 2 or 3 years looking at all the contract wins that you have in the pipeline that are going to start flowing through?

[Akira Sato, executive]

Okay. Can you refer Page 5, please?

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

Yes.

[Akira Sato, executive]

Just the comparison of last year second quarter buses this year, lots of greens, except automotive, which is minus USD 87 million. This is actually split to minus USD 67 million in Q1 and minus USD 20 million in Q2. So Q1 is reasonable because of very low demand of automotive. But in Q2, it's recovering, not fully recovered yet, but still at minus USD 20 million. And then this minus USD 20 million is consistent plus USD 20 million from existing business. And then minus USD 45 million -- minus USD 40 million from traction motors. That means free traction motors spending USD 40 million more than last year. But no, I need to spend this money. So problem area is poor recovery from automotive areas.

If we look at July or September. September, we are seeing a much bigger profit from automotive areas. And this continuing October and November. So it's definitely coming back. In some quarters fan sales we have a positive from last year to this year and the automotive products. And then -- and keep increasing profitability from all periods. And then point is development costs for traction motors.

If we need to spend traction motor, which I have already good orders. Definitely, I can sustain this level. But it's good and bad, but actually good by base. But day by day, we are receiving a new order from customers. We talked about volume in '25, which I explained about 2.5 million, and right 1.2 million last quarter, which I explained. So it's rapidly increasing.

So if we have a more increase from now to '26 or '27, then they have to increase this development. But we don't afraid this because it's proving we are gaining market share. We can enjoy scalability, right? So we have -- I am fully aligned with Chairman Nagamori's. We take as much as possible for this volume and the market share. If we have to spend the development cost, we do. And then I also need to accelerate profit to margin improvement from all sites. That's what I'm what I'm interest in.

So with current pace, I definitely make that positively in the Q3. But if we have a further order from customer, it may stay at slightly negative but not heavily negative, and that's for my number for futures.

Am I replying to your questions right?

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

You are, indeed. Can you say anything more about the increase in the -- in your now projected volumes that you have for 2025 in terms of the -- is that mostly from Chinese customers that have taken up. Can you give any details of the sort of mix of where the increases come from?

[Akira Sato, executive]

Okay. Please, let me avoid to specific, but I think I can explain you by region. Lastly, 40% from Europe, 40% from China, 20% from others. So China, Europe is growing same speed.

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

Okay. And that percentage, that's the increase that you've given me?

[Akira Sato, executive]

No, no. That's a percentage of 2.5 million.

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

2.5 million. Okay. Okay.

[Akira Sato, executive]

Well, I would say it's proportional. Slightly bigger in Europe for incremental volumes from last year, last time to this time.

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

Okay. And previously, you've made statements, I think, that you have, including inquiries, you have a potential aggregate value of, if you like, orders and inquiries of JPY 630 billion, was the figure quoted. With these additions, do you have -- do you have a revised figure for that, that you could quote or not?

[Jun Seki, executive]

So. So you mentioned the JPY 630 billion or the particular year or maybe we have mentioned that number.

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

It's the aggregate base. Yes.

[Jun Seki, executive]

It's aggregate total.

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

Yes.

[Jun Seki, executive]

And then you're asking what will be the number as of today, covering 22 inactive customer and the 7 traction motor customer. Is that your question?

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

I think, sir, on the same basis as before. I just wondered if you have read -- that's been reached.

[Jun Seki, executive]

The total sales or an aggregated basis sales from '19 to 2025, right?

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

Right.

[Jun Seki, executive]

So that number as of today is -- the previous was something like JPY 630 million, right?

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

I believe that's the case, yes.

[Jun Seki, executive]

Okay. And the total revenue, we're expecting something of the JPY 750 billion.

[James A. Pulsford, analyst]

JPY 750 billion. Okay.

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

Our next question is from SSGA, Mr. [ Ramsey Nila.]

[Unknown Analyst]

I'm just trying to improve my understanding on Page #15 in the presentation. So you mentioned the target is roughly 2.5 million for E-Axle by 2025. So this also includes the volume of traction motors in this target? Or can you please explain the target for E-Axle and traction motor?

And the second question following that. So can you give the number of customers in E-Axle and traction motors, I think E-Axle have previously 15 customers? And how that improved in this particular quarter?

[Akira Sato, executive]

So first, about 2.5 million in '25, at most of volume traction motor sets. Some are just motor, alone, let's say, combination is about 85 and 15, 85% contraction to 15% motor alone.

[Jun Seki, executive]

So you were asking the weather -- that 2.5 million correspond to the number, we said 1.5 million or other number such as the number, including the traction motor for other hybrid, right? That's another 4.1 million, which we mentioned. Then today, we say -- the previous quarter, we say 1.5 million E-Axle. That corresponds to today, 2.5 million, okay?

Then 4.1 million we mentioned in the previous quarter. Now today, we say 6.1 million, roughly. So that's another market, right? As you understand, the traction motor market, okay?

So that we say roughly that the 10 million total market for EV, EV, the battery-based EV, then our number is 2.5 million. So we say our share is 25%. Mild hybrid, according to the IHS Markit, 20 million is the market size for fiscal year '25 or calendar year '25, then our number is over 6 million, which is roughly 30%.

So you can understand that we are going to take a 25% of the battery EV market and 30% of the mild hybrid market. That's what we are saying in this quarter. Is that fine?

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes, that's great. That's really helpful. And on number of customers you have compared to last quarter for both of this market?

[Jun Seki, executive]

How many customers we have for mild hybrid?

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes.

[Jun Seki, executive]

Okay. The 7, as we mentioned, the same number as we mentioned the last time.

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

Our next question comes from Satoru Ochiai again of MUFJ Securities, EMEA.

[Satoru Ochiai;MUFG Securities EMEA;Analyst, analyst]

So my next question -- second question is that if Nidec will be able to sell 10 million units of a E-Axles system. So roughly, how much impact will Nidec have in terms of operational profit?

[Akira Sato, executive]

7 million. Or Ochiai, you said 7 million?

[Satoru Ochiai;MUFG Securities EMEA;Analyst, analyst]

No. 10 million, 2030.

[Akira Sato, executive]

2030 we're going to sell 10 million.

[Satoru Ochiai;MUFG Securities EMEA;Analyst, analyst]

Yes, 10 million, yes.

[Akira Sato, executive]

Yes. 10 million. When we are selling 10 million, how much profit we are gaining. That's your question?

[Satoru Ochiai;MUFG Securities EMEA;Analyst, analyst]

Yes.

[Akira Sato, executive]

Yes. If you look at the Page 15, we are splitting the 3 times. I don't know what thing is that at this moment. We're splitting creating introduction stage and the growth stage and maturity stage. I can say, once we reach maturity stage, it's same level of profit, profitability at this slide because we are going to dominate this one, and then probably over 30%. And then for the growth stage -- sorry, introduction stage, that's more priority to grow fast because we have to eliminate our competitor as fast as possible. And then for this growth period, I think we can we can firmly confirm probably around 10% to 15%, 20 percentage. But still, this is like in between introduction and maturities. So if we need to compete with our competitors, we do because market share is first priorities.

So lastly, 10% to 15% are unit before the maturity period, which is 30%, that is just a very high level of predictions. I would say, grows fast.

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

And now it seems that [ David ] has a remaining question.

[Unknown Analyst]

Good. I wonder, could you talk a little bit about the other precision motors, so not the HDD motor area and the performance in both the second quarter and also the prospects going forward? In the second quarter, your operating margins here are around 5%. So they remain relatively low. So I know long term, you target, I think, 15% here. And I'm just wondering if you could comment on how difficult do you expect that be to improve margins, which have been depressed for some time here, that predates, it's not to do necessarily with COVID, it predates COVID. Could you comment on that?

And also within that, in the second quarter, within that, you have some sales of vibration motors, if you could specifically comment on that on the value and profitability there, that would be kind as well.

[Akira Sato, executive]

Okay. So number one, when we are talking about a small precision motor, there are 3 categories: hard disk drive spindle motor, DC motor fan and others, and the haptic and vibration motor. There are 3 different areas. So when you divide into those 3 categories, okay?

The DC motor fan and the other category, for example, fiscal year 2019, it was nearly a 2.9% OP margin. So it's not really making so much profit. Then that's going to be coming down into the 2020. The first quarter that the June quarter, there was a 5.4%. And then the second quarter, this quarter is something like 5.7%. So it's clearly getting better. And the top line is also getting a little bit higher, where we are reporting in the second quarter, roughly a JPY 62.4 billion, which is over JPY 57.2 billion in the June quarter. Then if you're looking back the fiscal year 2019, last year, the highest quarter for that category was JPY 62.5 billion in the December quarter. So we are already reporting almost the same as the last year December quarter, which is before the COVID-19.

So the future, clearly, there are several areas. #1 is the IT area, especially data center area. Then we believe that market or that segment is growing. That's number one. Number two, the other area is the 5G base stations. Then we see our business might be somewhat coming down in the December and the March quarter, because our major customer, Huawei, was blocked by the American Government. Now that's going to be maybe transferring to the Nokia or other 5G makers. So it will take some time to make those changes. So the 5G base stations, clearly fan demand is coming down. But the biggest one is clearly, at this moment, we are looking at a so-called holiday season, then clearly, we are looking at the fund and some other DC motor for the home appliances were coming up. So those are the biggest trends. Then you are asking the [ fiery ] trend in the haptic and vibration. Clearly, this is more seasonal one.

But overall, we say, we are maybe the American smartphone makers a smartphone will be saying, well, then we will be something like 1/3 of that number will be using our haptic. That is something that we are expecting.

James, is that fine?

[Unknown Analyst]

That's fine. So can I just check, so for the vibration motors in the first half of the year, you ended up then losing a little bit of money in the first half of the year? Is that correct?

[Akira Sato, executive]

Okay. So profitability and the sales is not same, okay? So if you're looking at the haptic/vibration motor business, we reported right clearly in the first quarter 10.2 billion sales and then this September quarter, we reported 9.4 billion. So the top line is coming down, but OP was negative 0.1 billion in the June quarter, but now this quarter, we reported 3 billion, roughly, okay, 2.8%.

So overall, still, we are -- we have to write-off the machines and others, which is really inherent to this project because this project is only last 1 year and any investment, which is not resulted in the top line, then they had to write off after the project ended. So it's very difficult to make money. But still, we are doing very fine with the top line, roughly a JPY 10 billion per quarter or roughly JPY 40 billion a year, then overall, we say that's going to create 4% to 5% of the margin. That's what we are looking at this business for this fiscal year. Is that fine?

[Unknown Analyst]

That's fine. And on the fan motor side, where your margins, as you mentioned, are a little later at 5% at the moment. Do you think -- well, all the other precision motors, which includes fan and others. When you look at the next couple of years, how realistic is it to expect a significant improvement in profitability there? And what will drive it?

[Akira Sato, executive]

Okay. The key is the fan motors -- so-called, the one fan motor say, per unit is not making so much money because we are competing very fiercely against our so-called a Taiwan competitor like Delta, Sunon and all the others. And also, we are now competing against the Chinese manufacturers. So it's very difficult to make money. So what we are trying to do is trying to solve the thermal question using our fan motor because fan motor is one of the device to cooling down the system. But usually, fan means using the air, right? But the overall cooling system is now shifting from air to the water. So how we are combining those and to try to solve the customer problem to how to bring down the whole system. That's going to be a very big data center or that could be a very, very small smartphone, whatever the case, the thermal situation, thermal demand is rising, then we are not limiting to the fan motor, but rather, we are trying to become a problem solver for those thermal customers by any of our customer.

Then by providing a better solution for our customer, we believe that we could improve the profitability. Is that fine?

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

Now there seems to be no further questions, and we would like to conclude the conference call. I'd like to appreciate for your participation today. Should you have any further questions -- sorry, there is a last-minute question from SSGA, [ Ramsey ]. And this will be today's final question.

[Unknown Analyst]

Sorry for that. And I had just a quick question. Can you break down your volumes in terms of 2.5-inch and 3.5-inch and helium as a percentage of nearline motors?

[Jun Seki, executive]

For a September quarter shipment?

[Unknown Analyst]

Right. Yes. September. Yes, yes, exactly.

[Jun Seki, executive]

The total, which I mentioned, total number of spindle motor shipment for the quarter was 60 -- let me just see the number here. 63.2, and the 2.5-inch high end is 0.9; nearline 17.8; 3.5 inch, 22.6; and 2.5-inch is 21.9. And as I mentioned, the total ASP is $7.02. Do you need more information regarding the pricing?

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes. If possible, please.

[Jun Seki, executive]

Okay. So a 2.5-inch was 7.20; nearline is 13.23. And 3.5-inch is 4.69. And the 2.5-inch is 4.38. Then you're asking helium. The helium is 10.3 million out of 17.8 million nearline. Is that fine?

[Yoichi Orikasa, analyst]

Now we'd like to conclude the conference call. Again, I'd like to appreciate for your participation today. And should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact Nidec Corporation or your sales representative at Mitsubishi UFJ Morgan Stanley Securities. Thank you very much for joining the conference call, and you may now disconnect.

[Akira Sato, executive]

Thank you, everyone.

[Jun Seki, executive]

Thank you, everybody.

[Akira Sato, executive]

Bye-Bye.