Nippon Paint Holdings Co Ltd

TSE:4612

Earnings Call Analysis

Nippon Paint Holdings sees mixed regional results with Q4 guidance optimistic.

In Q3, Nippon Paint Holdings reported JPY 405.6 billion in revenue, a 3.2% increase, while operating profit decreased by 1.3%. The company expects Q4 revenue and operating profit to rise by approximately 15% from the previous quarter, aiming to exceed initial forecasts. Challenges were noted in markets such as China and France, but overall performance was described as decent given tough conditions. Full-year guidance remains unchanged, but new Indian operations are set to contribute positively starting Q4. The company targets profit margins in low to mid-double digits moving forward.

Record Revenue in a Challenging Landscape

Nippon Paint Holdings (NPHD) reported a remarkable FY 2024 Q3 with revenue reaching JPY 405.6 billion, a 3.2% increase year-on-year, marking a record for this quarter. However, operating profit saw a slight dip to JPY 47.3 billion, reflecting a decrease of 1.3% year-on-year. The growth in revenue was attributed to increased paint volume and contributions from new consolidated subsidiaries, though adverse effects from exchange rates and product pricing affected profitability.

Tough Market Conditions in Key Regions

The company faced significant challenges, particularly in China, Turkey, and parts of Europe, especially France. NIPSEA China's decorative business noted a 1% increase in total unique customers (TUC) but dealt with a stark 16% decrease in total unique buyers (TUB). Overall, despite these obstacles, the company maintained revenues, albeit at a slower growth pace, signaling necessary operational revisions for cost management and efficiency improvements moving forward.

Strategic Outlook for Q4 and Beyond

Looking ahead, NPHD anticipates a more favorable Q4, with an expected revenue and operating profit increase of around 15% on a Tanshin basis. This is particularly optimistic as they plan to exceed their initial forecasts by approximately 2 percentage points for revenue and 0.5 to 1 percentage point for operating profit. Although the yen continues to weaken against major currencies, management believes they can overcome local currency challenges in some regions.

Focus on Margin Improvement and Cost Efficiency

Management addressed concerns regarding profit margins, aiming for sustainable operational efficiency. With expectations of margin improvements, NPHD targets a mid to low double-digit margin for upcoming periods. The emphasis is on balancing sales growth, profit, and market share instead of solely focusing on margins, a strategy that is particularly vital in the current volatile economic environment.

Future Contributions from New Acquisitions

Further, NPHD received approval for its Indian business acquisition, expected to contribute positively to consolidated earnings beginning in Q4. While the immediate impact on the overall financial picture is viewed as minor, it indicates NPHD's ongoing strategy towards expanding its international footprint and enhancing its portfolio.

Sustainability and Long-Term Growth Vision

Overall, NPHD's management is optimistic despite noting the various economic pressures. They reiterated their commitment to sustainable growth, especially in their primary markets like China, which remains a critical cash cow. With strategic measures in place, including personnel optimization and revising operational frameworks, NPHD is positioning itself to navigate through challenges and emerge stronger in future periods.

Earnings Call Transcript 2024-Q3

[Operator]

Thank you very much for waiting. We will now begin Nippon Paint Holdings FY 2024 Q3 Financial Results Conference Call. We have some housekeeping announcement. [Operator Instructions] This conference call has Japanese and English simultaneous interpretation.

So Wakatsuki-san, Tanaka-san, the floor is yours.

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Thank you very much, and good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I am Wakatsuki, President of NPHD. Thank you very much for taking the time to join us today despite your busy schedule. I would now like to explain the outline of our FY 2024 Q3 financial results. Thank you very much. Please turn to Page 3.

This is today's summary. On Tanshin basis, revenue was JPY 405.6 billion, up 3.2% year-on-year, achieving a record Q3 revenue and operating profit was JPY 47.3 billion, down 1.3%, basically, flat year-on-year.

As shown on the bottom right, the positive factors for revenue were paint volume, adjacencies business and new consolidated subsidiaries, while the exchange rate and price mix were negative. On a non-GAAP basis, revenue increased by 1.8%, and operating profit decreased by 13.1%.

In NIPSEA China's decorative business, TUC grew by 1% despite a tough market environment and TUB dropped by 16%, and NIPSEA China's total revenue grew by 2% on a non-GAAP basis, but operating profit fell by 32% on a non-GAAP basis, excluding subsidies.

We are reviewing our costs, including operational efficiency more rigorously in China and expect margins to improve from Q4 onwards through personnel optimization, et cetera. In a way, it was a tougher Q3 than expected. But overall, China, Turkey and DGL, Dulux Europe, especially France, were rather tough. And other than that, I think we were able to achieve a decent result in a tough market environment.

In this context, the overview of 9 months cumulative results is shown on Page 4 with both revenue and operating profit reaching record highs. As I said before, there are some ups and downs depending on the region or quarter. But overall, I think all regions are generating good performance.

As for the full year guidance on Page 5, the yen continues to weaken, but some regions I mentioned earlier are facing difficulty on a local currency basis so we have not made revisions. That said, we expect to exceed our initial forecast. And based on the Q4 outlook for exchange rates shown on the right, we expect revenue and operating profit to increase by about 15% in Q4 on the Tanshin basis.

As a result, as shown on the lower half, we will aim for revenue and operating profit to exceed the initial forecast by about 2 percentage points and about 0.5 to 1 percentage point, respectively. So the guidance remains unchanged. We received approval from the authorities for our Indian business. We have not yet closed the deal, but these businesses are expected to contribute to consolidated earnings from Q4. I will not go into detail, however, as the impact on the overall picture is minor.

On Pages 6 and 7, we update our full year guidance for business growth and margin trends on the local currency basis assumed in August.

Page 8. As for raw material market conditions, we are seeing overall stability and Page 9 shows the heat map. I'm moving on to Page 10. Although I leave the details to Q&A, I would like to add 2 points first. One is in Asia, negative growth is seen in NIPSEA except China, but this is still largely due to inflation and hyperinflationary accounting in Turkey. Excluding Turkey, sales growth of NIPSEA except China was about 5.4%. Indonesia is also showing fair signs of recovery at 7.9% growth.

Secondly, in DGL, market conditions remain difficult in both the Pacific and Europe. But in the Pacific, sales grew by 3.1% and margins improved by 1 percentage point due to the contribution of small acquisitions in the adjacencies business. In Europe, only the French market remained challenging, resulting in a disappointing sales decline. Regarding other regions, they trended as expected.

Page 11. As for main topics, first of all, we will hold our first IR Day on December 2 to deepen your understanding of our company from various aspects. As a new attempt, we will have DGL, which implements the so-called Western model and NIPSEA, which implements the Asian model, explain our brand strategy from their respective perspectives. And as in the past, we will have our Co-President, Wee Siew Kim, talk about the overall business of the NIPSEA Group and also Mr. Nakamura, Chairman of the Board, will discuss governance.

We hope you will make spare time to attend this event. We held a briefing session on the integrated report on September 6, and we received valuable feedback from you at the meeting and also subsequently. We would like to thank you again, and we'll continue to strive for a more reader-friendly integrated report in the future. Moving on to Page 12. We have already announced the acquisition of AOC on October 28. I would like to take your questions regarding this topic today as well, if necessary. That concludes my presentation, and I would like to now take your questions. Thank you for your attention.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] First, from the Japanese channel. First question is from BofA Securities, Enomoto-san.

[Takashi Enomoto, analyst]

Yes, I have 1 question. Please talk about Q4, how we look at Q4. So China subsidy was JPY 3.5 billion and inflation, minus JPY 1.7 billion. So that is around JPY 45 billion total. Q4 operating profit, year-on-year, 15% growth, which means JPY 42 billion to JPY 43 billion. Q3 was rather weak, but the dip of Q4 maybe smaller vis-a-vis Q3 than usual years. So Q3 compared to usual seasonality, what is good? Is China recovering or is there another one-off factor included in Q4? So how should we look at the profit in Q4? Any some features?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Thank you for the question. On Page 5, we show you the comparison with Q4 last year, JPY 1.6 trillion and subtracting the results to Q3 may be a bit distorted. So we have an upside on -- over the guidance year-over-year comparison, which is a bit higher than the guidance.

There are a few factors. I cannot say anything definitive, but India, the taking in part of India business, this will be a positive. Last year, Alina did not exist, and so Alina is not added and same for Q3. So those are the new consolidation.

Q3 China margin was extraordinary, from our view. In reality, we did quite a few big advertisement, but the market is not strong. So the way we spent our expenses and the return was not good in Q3, and we want to hit the right balance here. So profit-wise, we can recover more.

As you just mentioned, there are no particular one-off items. Betek has inflationary -- hyperinflationary accounts every year. And so this is not really a one-off factor. But towards Q4, we are ramping up towards the achievement of the annual target, not just in China but in all regions. We are trying to laser focus on revenue and profit. So we think we will achieve this level. That is our current forecast.

[Takashi Enomoto, analyst]

So that is a rough status where we stand. So one more point. So the demand recovery in China, I think July, September was weak. But from October, there were some economic stimulus measures. So are you factoring in some improvements there?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

We are not overly optimistic. But that said, TUC see full year guidance on Page 6, 10% to 15%, we're saying 5% to 10%. So to get there, on the cumulative 3-quarter basis, TUC growth is around 7%. So Q3, 1% year-on-year. The recovery will be higher than Q3, 1% year-on-year. So overall, the demand month will be September.

September is second largest after March, and so we did not have the strength we wanted to see. But towards the year-end, like last year, we will see a decline. So the -- we do not expect a dramatic recovery in the market. But TUC, I think I can go to a mid-single digit.

[Operator]

Next question is from Goldman Sachs Securities, Ikeda-san.

[Atsushi Ikeda, analyst]

This is Ikeda of Goldman Sachs. About the results of your China business especially profit margin. Well, you mentioned promotion and marketing expenses and -- imbalance with the actual demand. If possible, well, currently, it is at 14.7%, quite high, but it has dropped to 8.9% compared to the previous third quarter.

So is there any mix-related factors or pricing factors compared to Q2? It dropped from 12% to 8.9%. And you mentioned this is extraordinary or irregular. But what is your outlook for the fourth quarter? Are there any one-off factors? And is there any further impact from the promotional or marketing expenses?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Last year, I think it was 13.2% on the non-GAAP basis. Last year, there were subsidies. It was JPY 600 million. It's not a big amount. And then there was provision. So maybe the situation was slightly better, but September tends to be a big demand month only after March. So this should be a strong quarter in general. However, unfortunately, we have been making upfront utilization of expenses, and we have had to reduce price.

And in terms of mix, well, this is more due to price mix. Economy products are selling better. It's selling better in Tier 3 to 6 cities. So we have had to decrease pricing even for premium products. And this is creating this negative impact, resulting in 8.8%.

Last year's Q4 was -- I believe it was around 10%. And I believe that is a level we can achieve. So it's not that we're on a downhill, but as I've said, we will strike a good balance between sales and profit to grow the overall business. That is our strategy. And we believe we will continue to be in the safety zone.

[Atsushi Ikeda, analyst]

That was clear. Just to clarify, B2C growth is 1%. Compared to regular numbers during the pandemic, this is a low number. But Tier 0, Tier 1, they are flat and you're growing in Tier 3 to 6 cities. And maybe 1 percentage point increase in marketing expenses, resulting in a slightly below 9% margin. Is that the Y-o-Y change?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Well, in Tier 0 and Tier 1 to 2, they're not negative. They are positive. And Tier 3 to 6, they are growing better. So it is true that we are in a challenging environment but in China, the consumer sentiment has been very weak and their overall economic situation has been trending weak. So it has never grown dramatically. But in a long-term perspective, it is not that we are losing. So we're not overly concerned. And we have been able to generate a fair amount of cash, and there are no big changes to our outlook.

[Operator]

Next question is Mizuho Securities, Yoshida-san, please.

[Atsushi Yoshida, analyst]

This is Yoshida from Mizuho Securities. So you talked about Dulux. That was a bit difficult. So according to your material, Q3 in Australia is a demand month every year. So usually, from Q2 to Q3, your profit grows. But this time, the growth was not that high. And in your forecast -- from your August forecast, you've shifted your forecast to the lower end. So Dulux Australia, could you elaborate on the market situation? Market environment? And towards Q4, do you have any measures in place? I think you have a new brand strategy including that trend and progress, could you share with us your measures to improve your profit towards Q4?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Thank you, Yoshida-san. To be honest with you, Dulux Pacific is okay -- is doing good. Thank you very much for that gift. Market is not good. The interest rate is not -- decline is not happening and housing is not good, but we are growing at a decent level despite those factors.

In Q3, yes, we're seeing the improvement. And so we can generate profit. Last time I said that we refreshed the brand for a first time in 10 years, and that is going well. And it's not just Dulux, but we cannot go against the market trend much.

In the chemical sector, it is the least volatile, the strongest demand sector but even then, it depends -- really depends on whether the users will use our paint, depends on the user confidence. Same for the U.S. So the interest rate needs to be cut further and economic stimulus measures need to be taken. Otherwise, the environment will continue being difficult. But Dulux is growing, Pacific is growing and 3 quarters cumulative, we are delivering the promise.

So I know you have to do your job. You have to analyze on a quarterly basis, but I want you to look at the longer-term trend. But that said, Q3 was, yes, difficult, more difficult than we thought. Dulux. We are committed to achieving the initial target, especially Pacific. Pacific is not a concern.

Europe, especially France, like I said last time, it is a mature market. And the market is a negative 5% growth for 2 years in a row. In their long experience, this is a rare circumstances. It's difficult and they're taking cost measures, revisiting their cost structure and doing what they can. But market needs to recover to enjoy the operating leverage.

Last time, we thought we saw some signs of recovery but Paris Olympic was not a positive factor. So Q3 market was difficult too.

[Atsushi Yoshida, analyst]

Understood. So Pacific -- I don't know much about Europe, but Pacific, at least as far as Pacific is concerned, Q3 to Q4 on a Q-on-Q basis, demand will be flat? Will be about the same level?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Right, it's not dipping much. Market is flat. And we -- rather than increasing share, we want to secure profit and maintain market share. So in Australia and New Zealand, it will be flat to plus and profit a little higher than that. That is our goal.

Europe will not worsen more. Europe has seasonality. Winter is not good. On a full year basis, Page 7, it was originally 4.4%, up in operating profit year-on-year, will not be worse than that, but flat.

[Operator]

Next question is from CLSA Securities, Cho-san.

[Unknown Executive]

This is Cho of CLSA Securities. So again, I would like to ask a question about China. So I'm sorry if this is about another company, but your peers had flat results from July to September for TUC and TUB. But in October to November, they have been growing by 40% to 50% year-on-year.

From second half of September towards the holiday season, I think they have been promoting subsidies in the CASE area, especially. Is there any impact from these stimulus measures resulting in potential recovery in the December quarter? And in terms of seasonality, September used to be strong. But in this year, can I say that demand was pushed out to October from September?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Did you say 40% to 50% growth? I don't think peers are growing that much, Cho-san.

[Unknown Analyst]

Well, that is what I heard at least. At least over 20% growth was explained. I'm sorry, this is not about you, but what I want to ask is if some demand delayed from September to October?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

This time, it is true that September had a different trend from regular September month. And we have to refrain from commenting on whether those demands are pushed out to October. In -- among the 3 months, September was weaker than usual. Maybe it was impacted by the holiday season.

In October to December quarter, significant demand recovery is not really expected. We're not that optimistic. Probably mid-single digit is the level we can achieve. It will be better than 1%. That is our current outlook.

And regarding the economic stimulus measures, of course, it is better than nothing. But these are -- TUC products are consumables, consumer goods. So overall sentiment is not necessarily great. And it is possible that this will not create a big positive tailwind.

In longer term, GDP may grow in China. But in terms of the timing, I think there are many views. It really depends on economic stimulus measures. So we should not depend on those measures or subsequent rapid economic growth, but rather, we need to work on creating a lean structure and achieve profitable growth. So I don't think we have any ultra-C, so to speak.

[Unknown Analyst]

One follow-up question. In October to December quarter, Y-o-Y growth rate will be improved compared to the September quarter. And the margin will also be improved compared to Q3. Is that a fair assumption?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Yes, that is our outlook for both points. Margin will be better than 8.8%. This is close to the bottom. So we are expecting this to improve and Y-o-Y growth will be in mid-single digit, better than 1%, as I mentioned earlier.

[Operator]

Next question is from Citigroup Securities, Nishiyama-san.

[Yuta Nishiyama, analyst]

Citigroup Securities, Nishiyama speaking. So financial results-related questions are already covered. So AOC is my question. So first year EPS, JPY 15 to JPY 17. So this will increase your EPS by 30%. But looking at the share price at the peak time after the announcement, it was 20% increase. So EPS -- against this EPS forecast, if there's more probability, I think there's room for further growth according to the calculation. So JPY 15 to JPY 17 forecast, what is the upside and downside risks? If you could once again share with us your view.

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

So first of all, on a full year basis, JPY 15 to JPY 17 contribution. So if we look at next year alone, depending on the closing timing, this may fluctuate. But in the long term, against JPY 15 to JPY 17 so around 10%. Announcement was October 28, and we are in the quiet period. So we hear investors' voices, but I have not had small meeting opportunities yet. But I know you have many questions. So if we get conviction, we think this M&A will be more evaluated.

[Yuta Nishiyama, analyst]

The JPY 15 to JPY 17 upside and downside, our asset assembler M&A theme is to acquire -- to accumulate safe assets. So one question is margin improved significantly for the past few years. Is this sustainable? This is one question.

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Of course, it was held by private equity. And so right before the sales, maybe they did some facelift, for a lack of a better word. Maybe they did some last-minute improvement. But we did the due diligence, and we judged that this margin is sustainable. And the improvement in Europe and the market improvement, including all those factors, we think this margin is sustainable, even upside can be considered.

But we have to deliver this. So after closing, you can only say, please look at our action. At this point, we have -- we did a very rigorous due diligence by looking at this company very carefully. It was not that we were forced to decide at all. We took sufficient amount of time and had good discussion with the management on counterpart side before making a decision, and the valuation is reasonable. We were able to come to an agreement.

So I have good confidence upside, downside is something for the future. So EBITDA growth, we think can reach high single digit. And under our group, it's not like we have to consider an exit of this company in a few years, we are a permanent owner and we want them to flourish and thrive under our group. So I think they will have even stronger enthusiasm to grow their business.

Of course, there's downside risks such as PPA assumption on the technical side. Of course, we did due diligence and thought this is a reasonable level and made an announcement as such. If the market condition worsened significantly, of course, that is a slim possibility.

And one thing about the presidential election, if Ms. Harris became President, we would have been -- had to pay tax, but that risk is gone. So that part is positive for us. Of course, we don't know what President Trump's measures will be, but just at one point, it was not a negative thing. So we're thinking of many factors and made a decision. So to repeat myself, we want to be a good owner and show that this company can grow.

Thank you. Sorry for my long answer.

[Operator]

Next question is from SMBC Nikko Securities, Shintani-san.

[Yasuhiro Shintani, analyst]

This is Shintani of SMBC Nikko Securities. I would also like to ask questions regarding China. Again, well, TUC growth is slowing down. On the other hand, peers are also losing revenue. And we could say that you have been leading, but the heat map says you have been in line. So is it fair to say that your growth was in line with the market?

Well, mid to -- small to midsized groups have been withdrawing from the market, but how do you look at the potential growth of the market?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

1% is the growth rate of TUC. In terms of the overall market, it is flat. Of course, variations exist between different regions, but outperforming is not going to be easy. If we're growing at 2% and market was negatively growing at minus 1%, we will be able to outperform. But compared to the past quarters, we can't really quantify the potential for outperforming.

But also, as you said, every player is suffering, and it is not that we are losing. Going forward, as I said earlier, we'll be looking at the market situation, and we will strike a good balance and be effective. We have no change to the strategy that we've had and the strategies that we will take in order to pursue profit. That's all.

[Yasuhiro Shintani, analyst]

As a follow-up question. Well, when we look ahead in the future, well, there are economic stimulus measures taking place currently. So if market starts to recover in the future, we can imagine that your market share could be higher. So how do you think about your opportunity to have a better advantage compared to today?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Well, of course, yes, we do see that possibility. We often talk about dominant strategy. Even in a tough market condition, weaker players withdraw. And when the market starts to grow, again, stronger players will have survived. But having said that, we can't really say that we are the dominant player in China. We have one more step to take, even though we have the highest market share. 40%, 50% market share is the level that we aim to achieve. Until then, we can't be optimistic. So we will continue to be aggressive. I think that is the stance of the China team.

In other regions, we have successful experiences and the path that we will take in China will basically be the same. When we become the dominant player, we can reinforce the already strong areas. I hope no one from FTC is listening to this conversation.

[Yasuhiro Shintani, analyst]

Next question is from UBS Securities, Omura-san, please.

[Shunta Omura, analyst]

This is Omura from UBS. My question is on Indonesia, which has not been asked yet. So Page 22 shows on the quarterly basis, 8% growth. On Page 32, on a cumulative basis, 1.2%. So from over 10%, it's been slowing down. So going forward, in Q4 and Q1, as you enter the season, how do you plan to reaccelerate this business, if you have any?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

So Q1, Q2 -- so Q1 was slightly negative and Q2 was flat so Q3, 7.9%. This was a good result. Q1, Q2, I think I said this. Market is not good, Indonesia market. And our competitors are also struggling. So to repeat myself, we are not losing out, but the market trend -- condition is not good.

So it's difficult to see a dramatic increase here, but we are launching premium products and our economy products are selling well. So we're doing aggressive promotion measures. And towards Q4, Indonesia, we want to do more and so we are trying to push them to do more.

On a full year basis, 0% to 5% is the forecast. Q1, Q2 was difficult and Q3 and Q4 are recovering, depends on Q4, but of course, we are based on the assumption that they will grow to a certain extent. So you may say last year was 10%, but we cannot go against the market. But we're not below the market either.

We should not push ourselves too much just focusing on growth. But in the end, it has strong potential growth. The market and per capita GDP is $1,000 -- $4,000. So as Shintani-san said, we will try to capture the market. But there are strong local competitors, too. So we will try to be on our toes and continue working hard.

[Shunta Omura, analyst]

And another related question, so Indonesia market is difficult. So local management is doing what they need to do. I think that is your evaluation. And so you're trying to ascertain whether you can reaccelerate next year. But in Europe, France, the difficult condition is continuing. So what is your -- what are you discussing with local management or any changes of management? Are you thinking of that?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

First, Indonesia is working hard. They're doing a good job, but I'm saying do more always because I always give strong words. I'm not saying you're fine now. I never say that. So what are we doing well, what can we do more, we discussed and put them into action but it's not that everything we plan for works out. And so things change. But despite that, we think we are doing a good job.

Now France, Cromology France and Cromology as a whole, it was temporarily -- it's temporarily under Dulux Australia team. So I do not directly communicate with the local management. So I, Wee Siew Kim [indiscernible] all of us are on Dulux Board. So Dulux Board received the Europe report and the improvement measures, what's working, what's not, the view on the market.

So we have a long-term profitability improvement plan. It's a project, the supply chain, cost structure, brand management. They all need to improve. So we are working in line with this project. But as I said earlier, the market is growing negatively, but they do not have a strong enough dominance to go against this negative growth, second place -- second player, a 10-or-so percent market share.

So we can only do what we can do. So we're doing what we are doing. We're not losing share. We're increasing share and profitability improvement is more difficult than we thought, but the fixed cost is well controlled. We're on track.

And in Nippon Paint Board, we are closely monitoring the status. So, so far, we do not have any particular concern. We just want to hope for the quick market recovery. We're not doing excessive cost reduction. If it leads to temporary profit increase, will not be sustainable. So we understand that, and we are discussing that well.

[Operator]

Next question is from Nomura Securities, Okazaki-san.

[Shigeki Okazaki, analyst]

This is Okazaki of Nomura Securities. So I apologize for asking the same question again, but I think there are many questions regarding China continuing from the March quarter. So you mentioned that September quarter was -- well, you didn't probably say it was irregular but -- and I also understand that you tell us to look at it from a longer perspective. But you have decreased selling price so -- towards the next fiscal year.

Well, maybe there are some impacts from the holiday, but I am somewhat worried about what is going to be the trend next year. So once again, can you please elaborate on why we don't have to be worried? Is there any conviction that you can share with us?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Well, I am not sure what is your expectations and whether we can meet those expectations or not. But at least in the past, regardless of the situation in China or regardless of your expectations, share price never reacted. So I hope you would not react only to negative news.

Probably, as I mentioned in 2020 or '21 projects were growing with increasing credit and our projects had lower margin. So TUC or DIY was our focus area so that we can stabilize earnings from the brand. In several quarters or in the past few years, we have had notable outperformance of TUC and resulting in higher conviction. And at the same time, TUB-related provision has been cleaned up to some extent.

China, on a cumulative basis has being sustainable in terms of its growth. It has been serving as a cash cow. Of course, it is better if we can do a better job. It's the same for Indonesia, for example, Dulux Indonesia, Wee Siew Kim especially have been trying to do so.

But we not only have to grow revenue but also -- we also have to grow profit. And as execution, the team in China has been doing a great job. And in Q3, on a cumulative basis, they have achieved fair growth and our competition has been growing weaker. This is the timing when we can leverage our strengths.

In longer term, there is a question of how we should look at China. It depends on the view of investors. Maybe short selling is an idea. But China is a cash cow, as I said earlier.

And in terms of project dependency, has been cleaned up and it has become a safer business today. As I said, 8.8% is not an acceptable number. We have to at least achieve double digit. In long term, we believe -- we still believe that we have a foundation for sustainable growth.

And in various streamlining and improving operational efficiency must be done in NIPSEA and in the entire group as well. We should eliminate redundancies, and we have to improve efficiency. That stance has remained unchanged. And we believe that we can achieve further profit growth.

We can't really expect for economic measures -- well, sorry, sorry. It's not that we can't expect, of course, it is better if we had those measures. But what I'm trying to say is that it is risky to rely on those future measures.

[Shigeki Okazaki, analyst]

Well, this is our job. So let me ask. You mentioned that these are consumer goods. So there may be no significant impact. Of course, it is better than nothing, but do you think it is powerful enough to grow the TUC business by 5%, for example?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

I don't know. I'm not sure. I hope that will happen. But even without it, we will still grow the business. That's what we're talking about.

[Shigeki Okazaki, analyst]

I'm sorry to interrupt.

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

No, it is totally okay.

[Shigeki Okazaki, analyst]

If the market continues to be slow, additional operational cost control is something you mentioned earlier. And I know this is a difficult question, but increasing share in longer term and improving performance in long -- in short term, I think it's a difficult question to strike a good balance. You said 8.8% is too low, but what is your image?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Well, you asked me what is the image? And I can only tell you we have a good image about the growth rate in margin.

[Shigeki Okazaki, analyst]

From outside, in short-term, market is not anticipated to start to grow again and price competition is likely to continue. And based on that assumption, the next year's outlook for operational TUC may not be so rosy, but you still say that you want to improve the profit margin to double digit. So do you have any ideas for further cost control?

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Yes, obviously. Efficient marketing expenditures, well, we have a large organization. So I think there are many ways to streamline. So once again -- well, in the past, we did experience profit decline. We've had fluctuations. But basically, we have had a double-digit margin. So we may not be able to achieve 20%, as we had in the past. So we may not be able to meet your expectations, if that is your expectation. But starting from low double digit to mid-double digit, that is what we can achieve with this business.

And as I have said repetitively, margin is not our full objective, but we have to grow sales, profit and market share. We have to strike a good balance. So in next fiscal year, we will not leap and guide for 15% margin. We have to continue to pay attention to the market condition, but we will always keep this vision in our mind.

[Operator]

Next, from the English channel. [Operator Instructions] We do not see any questions, so we will close the Q&A session. Wakatsuki-san, please.

[Yuichiro Wakatsuki, executive]

Thank you very much. As I mentioned a few times, our business is -- as we face various economic factors, we have sustainable -- sustainability. Of course, there are ups and downs by quarter, but even under such environment, we are -- as you can see from our past delivery, we have a strong conviction of increasing our profit.

Q3 was a bit difficult, but given the very difficult economic condition, we were able to achieve record high revenue in this result. And so I hope you could take a good look at our performance. And once again, I'd like to ask you for your support and gratitude.

Thank you very much.

[Operator]

With that, we will close Nippon Paint Holdings FY 2024 Q3 financial results conference call. Thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedule to attend today. Please now discontinue the phone call. Thank you.

[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]