Scandic Hotels Group AB

STO:SHOT

Earnings Call Transcript 2022-Q3

[Operator]

Good morning, and welcome to the Scandic Hotels Group Q3 2022 Earnings Call. Today on the call, we have Jens Mathiesen, CEO; Asa Wiren, CFO. [Operator Instructions]

I would now like to turn the conference over to Jens Mathiesen.

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

Thank you very much, operator, and good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining Scandic's third quarter presentation. My name is Jens Mathiesen. I'm the CEO of Scandic, and I'm here together with Asa Wiren, our CFO. And we are looking very much forward to take you through the highlights of the quarter.

So please turn to Page 2. I'm very pleased to present another record quarter where both our net sales and adjusted EBITDA reached new all-time high levels for a single quarter, as sales ended up to a level of close to SEK 6 billion and we delivered an adjusted EBITDA of SEK 1.2 billion. The main drivers of the result were a combination of a strong market with good demand, both from corporate and leisure and also continued strong operational performance with high efficiency and cost awareness in the company. I'm especially satisfied with our commercial ability to capture the strong demand from leisure travelers as well as the demand from our corporate guests, which now has returned to solid levels.

In September, for instance, the demand for meetings and conferences was even stronger than at the same month of 2019. The comeback of the corporate segment is of course very important since we have a seasonal pattern in the fourth quarter now with a larger share of corporate guests and higher demand for meetings and conferences. Overall, our occupancy increased to 70% in the quarter and room rates continued to improve in all markets, reaching new record levels. And this resulted in an all-time high RevPAR of SEK 875 compared to SEK 807 in Q3 2019. Note that we also had over 6% more rooms at the end of this quarter compared to the end of the third quarter in 2019. So this is indeed a strong development.

I also want to highlight the strong free cash flow of SEK 953 million in the quarter. I'm very pleased with the cash flow conversion in general, and we have continued to reduce our debt to a relatively stable level. Also, I want to add that I'm very pleased with our guest rating numbers. I'm proud of how we actually managed to quickly adapt to a rapid market recovery during the year, while ensuring that our guests enjoy their stay at Scandic, which is of course important.

Please move on to Page 3 where you can see the quarterly adjusted EBITDA development since the beginning of 2019. Adjusted EBITDA reached a new record level of SEK 1.2 billion in Q3, which is almost a 50% increase compared to the same period of 2019. This is a very strong improvement as the third quarter in 2019 then was a record quarter, boosted by major events such as the Finland that was holding the Presidency of the Council of the European Union. And altogether, this resulted in actually a record high margin also of just over 20%.

And even if we adjust for the one-off items of SEK 76 million, we had an underlying margin of 19%, which is more than 3 percentage points higher than the strong quarter of 2019. The main drivers of the strong performance were continued high efficiency and cost awareness in combination with a stable market and solid occupancy levels and very strong prices. Our total workforce has -- was slightly lower than in 2019 still despite higher occupancy at our hotels and roughly 6% more rooms in operation at the end of the quarter compared to the same period of '19. This proves that we are more efficient as a company today is something that we maintain a high focus on.

Please turn to Page 4. Here you can see the monthly market occupancy in the Nordic countries. We have seen a similar pattern in all countries throughout the year with a very rapid improvement from March onwards as restrictions were lifted from early and mid-February. This has been a broad recovery with strong demand, both for leisure corporate travel and also meetings. What we are seeing now is that occupancy levels have stabilized at good levels after a couple of very busy months. However, slightly lower than 2019, mainly due to lacking intercontinental travel from countries in Asia, such as China and Japan, with continued COVID-related travel restrictions. Scandic had a stable average occupancy rate just over 70% in all 3 months of the quarter. So very stable right now.

Please turn to Page 5. This is a market data average room rates for Sweden, Norway, Finland and Denmark. We have seen a positive trend in the room rates ever since actually the low point in the beginning of 2021. This quarter, we noted that prices have stabilized somewhat in September from the very strong levels in June, July and August. However, prices are still on very high levels, and all markets, except Finland, is above 2019 levels with especially high levels in Norway and Sweden. And of course, comparing back to '19, please remember that we're still comparing with Finland having the Presidency of the Council of the European Union in the second half of 2019, which actually resulted in very high room rates at that time, especially in September, October and November. So that's what we compare against. Pricing is always a key priority for us. And with the solid occupancy rates that we are seeing right now, we ensure that we maintain our focus on driving prices.

Please turn to Page 6. This is a market RevPAR, i.e., revenues per available room indexed to the corresponding month in 2019. All markets, except for Finland, are above '19 levels, where Norway continues to be the strongest market. Finland has lagged behind the other markets partly because they are slightly more exposed to the Asian travel, which of course, remains low.

Please move to Page 7. We continue to have a high activity within the portfolio. And in the quarter, we opened another hotel, a new hotel in Finland and signed one new hotel in Norway. We also announced to exit one hotel in Finland during the fourth quarter. We had 1,828 rooms in our pipeline at the end of the quarter. And since then, we have actually completed 2 new openings in Q4, which I will come back to later in this presentation.

We have strengthened our portfolio significantly during the year with 10 new openings in total, and we are of course very pleased and happy with the timing of these openings in such a strong market. We have a clear ambition to add more hotels to our pipeline, but like I've said quite some time before during the last years, this is not something we are stressed by. Our main focus has been to ensure that we become as efficient and resilient as possible so that we actually can grow from a position of strength. All together, we have a strong offering, a high-quality pipeline and relatively low committed CapEx going forward.

Please turn to Page 8. A few words on the wholesale portfolio in the third quarter. In Finland, which you see on the left, in Finland, we opened Scandic Helsinki Hub with 352 rooms. Helsinki Hub is strategically located in Downtown Helsinki and offers flexible meetings, events and co-working spaces. We also signed one new hotel, which you see on the right. This will open in 2026 in Ski, a fast-growing supper to Oslo in Norway. This hotel will offer 220 rooms and meeting facilities and has also a very strong sustainability profile. It will actually be ecolabeled according to the Nordic Swan Ecolabel and the property will also be constructed with the goal to be certified according to BREEM Excellent, one of the highest actually levels in environmental certifications for buildings, which you might know.

Please turn to the next, Page 9. As I mentioned, we have already completed 2 new openings in the beginning of the fourth quarter. In Germany, we opened Scandic Munchen Macherei with 234 rooms in Munich. This is our fifth hotel in Germany. And we are now operating over 1,500 rooms in the country. As at all Scandic Hotels, and as I mentioned before, sustainability is really a core, and this hotel aims to be Ecolabeled according to the Nordic Swan Ecolabel as well. We also did a takeover of the Hotel Opus in Horsens in Denmark, which you see on the right. The hotel has 132 rooms. And in total, we now have 31 hotels in Denmark.

With that, please turn to Page 10, and I will hand it over to you, Asa to take us through our financials.

[Åsa Wirén, executive]

Thank you, Jens, and good morning, everyone. Please then turn to Page 11 for part of our financials. As Jens mentioned, net sales and results reached new record levels. I'm happy to see how well we performed in the quarter and that our focus on efficiency and cost control keeps paying off. Net sales increased by 6% compared to the third quarter last year and reached almost SEK 6 billion. Adjusted EBITDA increased by 70% compared to the same period last year and reached SEK 1.2 billion, corresponding to a record margin of 20.2%.

If we then adjust for one-offs of SEK 76 million in the quarter, we reported an underlying margin of 90%, more than 3 percentage points higher than in the strong third quarter of 2019. One-offs in the quarter, SEK 76 million, includes state aid of SEK 32 million in Finland and other Europe related to historical periods and estimated SEK 29 million related to an agreement with the Norwegian State for housing refugees from Ukraine and SEK 50 million related to opening of new hotels.

With state aid and agreements with the Norwegian State taken off, we expect very low one-offs of about SEK 10 million to SEK 15 million in the fourth quarter. Other than that, rent rebates amounted to SEK 12 million in the quarter, and we estimate rent rebate to SEK 10 million -- about SEK 10 million in the fourth quarter. I also want to remind you that we had one-offs of almost SEK 270 million in the fourth quarter last year.

And then we can turn to Page 12 and look at the cash flow. We had a strong cash flow in the quarter, as mentioned by Jens, driven by strong underlying results and free cash flow amounted to SEK 953 million for the quarter. Year-to-date, cash flow amounted to SEK 1.3 billion, despite, as you might remember, a negative SEK 1 billion in Q1 this year. The negative working capital was partly impacted by the seasonality effect in the quarter with a larger share of business customers and an increased number of guests invoicing, tying up capital towards the end of the quarter. Despite that, we report a very strong cash flow.

If we then turn to Page 13, and we reduced -- continue to reduce our debt. And during the quarter, net debt decreased from SEK 3.3 billion to SEK 2.4 billion. At the end of the quarter, net debt corresponded to 1x adjusted EBITDA on rolling 12 months and 1.7x including the convertible loan, which is actually on par with the end of 2019. Our credit facility amounted to SEK 5.3 billion. And as I mentioned in the last quarter, there will be no more amortization according to the bank agreement. The operating liabilities regarding variable rent have continued to increase and amounted to approximately SEK 640 million at the end of the quarter. These will, to a large extent, be settled during the first quarter of next year. Lastly, we have the convertible bond with a conversion price of SEK 43.36 that matures in October 2024 with a potential dilution of 41.5 million shares.

And let us then turn to Page 14, and just to reconcile our net financial items. Here you see the net financial items and the impact from IFRS 16. Including IFRS 16, the reported financial net was minus SEK 436 million. Excluded for IFRS 16, the financial net was minus SEK 64 million. So the difference of SEK 372 million is interest expense according to IFRS 16. And the non-cash convertible interest was minus SEK 39 million. And ultimately, cash financial amounted to a positive of SEK 4 million in the quarter.

With that said, please turn to Page 16, and I will hand back to you, Jens, for some final comments.

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

Thank you very much, Asa. And then finally, some comments on the near-term outlook and a few concluding remarks. So despite the worrying signs in our economy, which of course, we all have, based on current booking levels, we see a positive outlook for the fourth quarter.

I want to highlight the seasonal pattern with a different business mix with higher demand from corporate guests, meetings and events and slightly lower demand from leisure travelers. With demand from corporate guests back at solid levels, we expect overall demand in the fourth quarter in line with the historical pattern, but at higher price levels. We also continue to focus on operational performance and cost control. We are cautious in the ramp-up of the organization, and we have limited committed CapEx ahead of us.

So in times like these, I also want to highlight and remind some of you that we are hitting our energy prices. That is something we have done for quite a long time. And we don't expect any substantial impact from the volatile prices going forward. So all in all, I'm very proud to deliver Scandic's best quarterly result ever together with the team. And the measures we implemented during the pandemic have given us a stable base. And we are today a more efficient and better underlying profitability and strong cash flow company than we were before. We are prepared for the future. And I think if any is prepared, it's us in this industry. So we are very prepared for whatever might hit us out there. So -- but we continue to focus on strengthening our resilience to ensure high and stable earnings. But right now, we see a very stable market.

And with that, I hand it back to you, operator, for the Q&A.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Andre Julia with Deutsche Bank.

[Andre Juillard, analyst]

Congratulations for these solid results. The first question on the prices. We've seen a strong improvement in Q3. You're expecting more or less a continuation in Q4. Do you have a visibility on negotiation, especially for corporates in '23? And could you give us some more color on that side? Second question on the CapEx. Could you give us also some more color about what we have to anticipate for '23, '24 regarding the pipeline, the opening and the eventual refurbishment you may have to do? And a third question about energy. You are reminding that the energy was fully hedged, but could you clarify how this hedge is setup and what could be the evolution because you will nevertheless have an impact regarding the price evolution? So how can we monitor that for the next 18 months?

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

I don't know if I got the first question, but related to the prices, you can say, how it continues to develop into the next quarter. Of course, normally, in the normal seasonality, the fourth quarter is in lower occupancy level than the third. But it follows -- if you should compare what happens in the quarter, it follows the normal pattern. So if you measure with what has happened in Q2 and Q3, you can actually look into and continue that pattern into Q4 versus the normalized levels. So on the, let's say, occupancy level.

On prices, that also continues to be strong. We are almost one month into the fourth quarter and prices are stable. And of course, there's a -- we have a lot of discussions also when it comes to prices for next year with the corporate clients. But everybody is aware of what is happening in the surroundings when it comes to inflation and cost and when it comes to food costs and salary costs. So the companies actually also expects price increases.

And so far, as you have seen now in the report, we are capable of adjusting prices onwards. So we are adjusting prices that covers for the inflationary cost increases. And so without doing that, we would never have been able to deliver such strong results. That cannot be done just by hard savings. It is a combination of the efficiency and the strong commercial focus area we have.

When you look at the pipeline, you're right, we have opened 10 hotels this year. So 10 is a huge number for us, and it's, I would say, an all-time high level as well. We have opened very strong hotels and good hotels in some of the core markets like in Gothenburg and Copenhagen and Helsinki. And so -- and then all in all, I think we have very good hotels that have opened up, and they have had a very good start. So I'm happy with that. But looking into the coming years, you can also say the timing is good.

If you are concerned with the surroundings and the economy, it's maybe good that we have less openings in the coming year. We have one opening in Q1, and that's the only one next year. Also meaning that we have limited growth CapEx for next year and thereby can steer the net results a bit better with lower growth CapEx. But we are continuously focusing on adding hotels like we did with the one in Ski in Norway in the last quarter. So we will be adding hotels to the pipeline, but that will be hotels opening up in 3, 4, 5 years from now.

And I think with the energy, you're right, for the hedging and maybe, Asa, you can elaborate a bit on how it's all working.

[Åsa Wirén, executive]

We have hedged our energy prices for more than 10 years now. And the electricity prices that Scandic is exposed to is the underlying price of the commodity electricity together with the price area differences that is dependent on actually where our hotels are located. We have a floating rate electricity price agreement with financial hedges to offset volatility in the underlying price.

The hedging period starts 3 years prior the year of consumption. And for 2023, at the moment, we are hedged up to 90%, 70% for 2024 and 34% for 2025. And overall, we are satisfied with the hedges and we don't expect any substantial impact on the total cost base as long as the price area differential prices does not skyrocket. So I think we have that under control and we have it for -- during our electricity hedge policy.

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

Was that covering all the questions or did I miss anything in the beginning?

[Andre Juillard, analyst]

Yes, yes.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from KJ Bonnevier with DNB Markets.

[Karl-Johan Bonnevier, analyst]

Congratulations to a very, very impressive Q3, no doubt. Just coming back to the outlook. And if we continue to say maybe compared to 2019, how do you see Q4 and then Q1 development? Is that more similar to what we saw, say, in a normal market like 2019 you think?

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

We continue -- it's a very good question and it's also very important for all to really understand how, let's say, this development continues, because you can see that if you look at '19 level and compare with that, occupancy levels are still a bit below. If I should explain it, we sell the same amount or maybe even a bit more rooms than we did before, at least lately. But since we have more rooms in operation as well, occupancy is slightly below '19 levels month-on-month. But they are kind of stabilized on that level, just below '19 levels on occupancy, but prices are well above, and that's why we drive strong RevPAR.

So you should expect also in Q4 that occupancy levels are slightly below the '19 levels, but prices continue to be above, and that's how you should estimate it. So I think fairly stable. We -- I'm a bit cautious to give you exactly expected occupancy levels. But I think you can look at the level that are -- of course if you compare these percentage points below the Q3 and then you continue that into Q4, then I'm pretty sure you will hit it pretty accurate in these levels. So it's stable.

And when we look at this, we look like every view of all of the concerns around, everybody is so concerned around us, but we do not see it in the industry, the same concern. We do not see any changes in the cancellation or the booking pattern. So we do not have more cancellations and we still have the same amount of bookings as we have seen in the last, I would say, 4, 5, 6 months. So the booking pattern is very stable even into the beginning of next year, when you compare with '19, it's also stable.

When we talk to the clients, the customers and we look at international analysts, then travel industry is actually pretty stable right now. And it seems that the people they might save on their clothing and maybe on their food and the way they spend money in their home with their new kitchens, et cetera, because we have already done that. But people want to travel still and they book a lot of vacations still and weekend still. So it is stable. So I don't want to talk it up, but I also need to urge to say to all of you that we do not see the same, let's say, as you've seen in other industries with the decreasing volumes coming in. It is very stable.

[Karl-Johan Bonnevier, analyst]

And I guess, the picture as well from a cost inflation point of view and the competitive environment, would you assume that there is a big risk of the average room rates stabilizing at a substantially lower level if occupancy doesn't continue to build up over time? What I'm driving at, I guess, that most of your competitors probably have a worse cost perspective than you maybe not having hedged your energy prices and these kind of things. So is there -- there are a lot of rooms, so to say, but when you look at the competitive environment for your [ trend ] in the industry to really go for demand at this stage?

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

I think it's a very good and important question. I don't think if I maybe be fair, with all respect for my competitors, you're totally right. I think we have a better cost structure. And I think we have -- we also have an advantage with the hedge, energy for instance. And we're also extremely strong in our home turf, you can say, in our home market. We are very strong in the Nordic market. And also in times like these, we have a tendency of taking an unfair share of that market. But when you look at the competitors, I think they cannot afford to lower the prices because they need to cover the expenses. They need to cover their cost increases. So they can simply not afford to lower because then they will drive their business with negative margins. They have lower margins than us when we look at competitors, so they cannot afford to.

And I think also market is more steered today as a whole with more help from, I would say, we have ideas, we have robots, we have revenue management systems that are helping the market to advise on the right price levels to secure that. We don't see the same situation as we did with the financial downturn where we saw in 2009 that prices decreased quite a lot, in especially Copenhagen region. And I don't foresee that happening even if we saw a similar pattern as that. So I think we are much more prepared as an industry. And I think competitors are much better today handling such a situation than they were. Even the small companies, they have better revenue management systems today.

[Karl-Johan Bonnevier, analyst]

Sounds promising. Going in -- coming out of Q2 going into Q3, I think you described your cost structure at maybe slightly anorectic and given demand coming back and maybe you're not being able to scale up the workforce in the way that you should have done in a normal situation. And so if you look at the cost structure that you had in Q3, how -- could you still describe it as anorectic in that respect and that if you have had a normal kind of setup on the cost structure that it would have added what kind of amount of cost basically?

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

I think in all fairness to all the -- a few thousand managers in the system, I think that was where we were putting a lot of pressure because we were -- we have employed more than 9,500 people since the beginning of the year. So it's enormous amount of people. So almost 10,000 people coming into Scandic, where maybe 7,000 of those were new employees in Scandic. So there has been quite an onboarding training. And so I think in management level, we -- I might have said also that we were a bit anorectic.

I think when you look at the quarter, we actually were -- we had lower -- even with these extremely strong numbers that you've seen today, we had much stronger numbers in September when it comes to hitting, let's say, all our KPIs than we for instance did in July. In July, we were spending a few too many hours versus normal on the F&B area. And that was simply because we have a lot of new people onboard that were not as efficient as normal. So that has taking us some time now to come up to speed. But I see that we are close to the same amount of people. It's a bit of another mix than before.

We have a bit fewer people on full-time employment and a bit more people on-demand, which makes it more easy for us to steer. But we also have -- we have still a very lean organization above hotel level. We are still hundreds of people below the amount we were before the crisis above hotel level, meeting and support offices and head office. And of course, we are still ramping up that because we are -- now we start to invest more in the whole digitalization and in the people and we restart Scandic Business School after this pandemic and things like that.

So -- but we are keeping a very focused eye on maintaining a level which is more lean than before. And we proved that in the numbers and that's a very key focus area for us. So I wouldn't say we are anorectic. We are back to the number of people, but we have much more rooms in operation and we have fewer top hotel level still.

[Karl-Johan Bonnevier, analyst]

Excellent. Sounds promising. Just if you compare also to maybe pre-pandemic and so on, how do you see the scope for ancillary revenues in the operation? Is there have been -- have you noticed any big changes to the -- how people are using those kind of extra services that you're having at the hotels?

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

I think we -- during the last couple of years, we have opened some hotels where we have actually added some features, let's say, to the leisure park. We have added some hotels with spa facilities or things like that. And there, we have seen quite good demand during the summer. And that is also supporting and driving the weaker business.

I think when it comes to general ancillaries, I think it's -- we don't expect that to be high in the coming period because I think -- and it's not that it's going to be low either, but it's not a huge focus really to focus on that. We have a lot of focus on selling the extra beer in the restaurant or an extra course in the menu. But selling something else to the room, it's more selling the right prices and not selling the right rooms. And that's where actually the money and the focus should be. That's where the big money is. And ancillary is a fairly small amount.

I think going forward, and once we see stabilized market when it comes to the economic and inflational and rent levels and interest rates, then I think when we normalize that, there will be a higher potential in ancillary sales also when we continue to put things more digitally into services to the guests.

[Karl-Johan Bonnevier, analyst]

And one final for me. You mentioned the positive effect that the Finnish EU Presidency had back in the -- back end of 2019. Obviously, Sweden is going to be having the same kind of honor in the first half of next year. Have you seen that coming into your order backlog in some way?

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

Yes, and I think a very good question as well because it was very interesting to see that when we had this EU Presidency in Finland in the autumn of 2019, bookings came in fairly late and we have a lot of expectations. But when I saw that during the summer we had very limited bookings into the -- because everybody kind of felt this is something we will deal with after the summer. And August, even though they had EU Presidency already during the summer and it was in the second half, nothing really happened in July and August and -- but the high activity level came in September, October and November, which was very strong. And we will also see that when we compare now this month of November with November in '19.

So I think bookings will come in fairly late. There's an interest for -- and some bookings popping up, some smaller meetings pumping up. I think we should expect definitely some pressure and quite a good first half in Sweden. But we should expect that the big months will be not in the first few months, it will be between, I would say, in March and into mid-June is where the big activity level will be.

[Karl-Johan Bonnevier, analyst]

So spring in Sweden basically from you guys.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Jamie Rollo with Morgan Stanley.

[Jamie Rollo, analyst]

Three questions, please. First of all, just on the restaurants and conference spend, it's sort of lagging the room revenues by about 10% given the low occupancies. I'm just wondering what percent of your restaurant or conference spend comes from the hotel guests relative to external guests? And also, if you look at that spend, what's the spend had been relative to volumes or covers in that sort of food and beverage side? How do we think about the recovery that's still to come there? Is it just you doubt that occupancy recovering or are there any other sort of factors driving that?

Secondly, sort of similar question to utility costs, but on the labor side. Clearly, you benefit from some of the fixed agreements. Can you talk about the timing of those ending? And what sort of additional costs we should be thinking about when you sort of mark-to-market any sort of wage pressures? And are you thinking of any sort of discretionary additional bonuses to your staff that are clearly working pretty hard given how well the hotels are performing?

And finally, how are you thinking about your long-term margins now? Clearly, the 11% number target. Pre-COVID, you've been sort of well above your quarterly margins in Q2 and Q3. Should we expect that sort of gap going forward to that 11%? Are we talking about something in the mid-teens or is it only modestly high given some of the cost increases still to come through?

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

And as always, crispy questions, testing us a bit on some of these things when it comes to margins, and I understand those. To try to take them in the same order. When it comes to meeting, it's important to say that the meeting revenue was extremely strong in the latter part of the quarter. If you look at September, we actually on revenue were 12% above '19 level, 12% on meeting revenue. But of course, we also have more rooms in operation and we had actually -- we opened some fairly big hotels in -- for instance, in the Gothenburg and Copenhagen with large meeting facilities that also have been driving some of this meeting business. But overall, meeting business have been very solid. And so I think meeting is actually -- is pretty back the same way as we see on the room side.

And then you had a question linked to the spend in the F&B and how much and how we compare with that. I'm not sure I got exactly the question, but I think if you look at the spend -- average spend, of course, right now, average spend is higher due to higher prices. If you look at how many, let's say, average courses and average beers and drinks, then we sell a bit lower in total, but that's also because we steer it better on our side, meaning that we steer very carefully opening hours of restaurants, when we -- how much banqueting we take in and when and on which levels. So we're much more cautious today.

And something that I spoke about already in 2019 that we had a huge focus area within F&B, because I think in general, F&B and restaurants are not driving and operating with, let's say, solid margins enough. And it has been pretty weak margins in the restaurant and food and beverage area, not only with Scandic, but in all restaurants. So a way to steer that is also to secure that if we take business in and banqueting and meetings, we take them in at right prices, otherwise, we will not take it in. So I think we have -- we are steering it. So I'm very satisfied with the way we actually do this. And we see the profitability within this area is not only covering the increased food cost, but also giving us better margins.

Then you had around the wages. Of course, we have a good situation this year since a lot of the blue collar workers was already pre-negotiated in back 2, 3 years ago. And then -- so wages are kept on a fairly decent level. Of course, we see pressure. We have seen pressure from some workforces like the chefs, we talked about that also in the previous quarters, and also on some of the management levels, where of course, there has been a fight for the key employees, but this year will be stable. You see it in the cost levels right now and you can expect that into fourth quarter as well that we keep a good cost level also on wages.

I'm happy that a lot of our GMs will, because of this extremely strong year, they will get bonuses and our salespeople will get bonuses. Again, they haven't got any bonuses during 2 years of the pandemic. So I'm very happy to pay out a lot of bonuses after this. But that is already included and set off in the numbers. So that's included really already in the numbers you are seeing. So there will not be an extra set off of that in Q4.

And when it comes to -- 2 more questions you have something related to the energy. And I don't know if you had something related to how long we can -- but there will be no changes in the year to come and we -- the hedging of the energy is actually a rolling hedging. So for 2023, you can expect these stable levels, as also mentioned before.

When you talk about long-term margin, I think it's a fair question and it's fair that you raise it because we have definitely proven ourselves to be more efficient now than ever. And on solid top-line levels, yes, of course, we should be able to create better margins over time. We have had now too fantastic results and we are proving how strong Scandic is as a company. I would like us to now, let's say, close this year in a decent and fair way. And then, of course, we will start to look at how those coming years perform and how do we expect them to deliver. And eventually, if we deliver over a longer period, solid margins above these levels, then of course, we will set new targets. But it's maybe 3 to 6 months too early to give you these, let's say, targeted promises.

They will be linked to a lot of initiatives that we are preparing for. We constantly work on creating a company that are more resilient. And it is a goal for us and a clear goal to improve also the margins and results of the company. So this is a high focus for us. But I will come back to that together with Asa when, let's say, in due time.

[Jamie Rollo, analyst]

Can I just ask just following on wages? Do those come to an end then at the end of this calendar year? And I mean maybe you can't chat with us for obvious reasons, but what -- is there a figure we should think about for your sort of unit labor cost next year?

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

I think it's -- actually, you're right, a lot of these negotiations with the unions, we need to re-negotiate next year, and they will follow, let's say, what is happening in industries around us and not only in the travel industry. But I think in the Nordic region, there's at least a very good dialogue between us and you can say the different parties that are negotiating. If there has been pre-meetings already, I'm actually sitting in some of these pre-discussions. And I can also tell you that there's a clear sentiment that we need -- we cannot follow inflationary cost levels with salary and wages because then the impact would be that a lot of businesses need to sack a lot of people because that's the only result.

There's a lot of industries -- now we drive our business with fairly strong margin, I would say, but we have a lot of other industries that can simply not bear salary increases that are too high. You can imagine the food industry, which is already on a high pressure and all the shops around, they are heavily under pressure if consumption goes down in that area. So I think we are in a good place with us. And I think the whole -- I don't expect this to be huge levels. Of course, it might be a percentage point or 1.5% or whatever higher than what we have seen, but it will not be 3%, 4% higher than what we have seen in the past years.

[Jamie Rollo, analyst]

And just to clarify on my first question -- apologies if it wasn't clear. I was just going to ask you -- I mean, clearly, your room revenue is up sort of high-teens versus the third quarter of '19 given obviously good pricing and more hotels, but your food and beverage is up or your conference and restaurants is up about 5%. So clearly, occupancy has caused some of that difference. But I was really wondering whether it's all down to occupancy or whether there's any sort of income that comes from guests outside the hotel? And also, should we expect this gap between room revenue and restaurant and conference revenue to close? Particularly, I'm guessing you're seeing quite high pricing in restaurant spend. So I imagine your volumes must still be probably down on a like-for-like basis compared to '19?

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

If you look at that, you're right, that -- if you look at -- it's -- we need to look at the like-for-like numbers, like you said, because we have opened some hotels that are supporting the total numbers. If you look at the like-for-like, volumes are below, which also the occupancy is. So if you look at like-for-like, occupancy and the number of guests is lower than '19 level. Prices in total are up also in the food and beverage. So actually, we have increased prices 3 times this year. So we have actually changed menu prices 3 times during the year in all our restaurants.

So whenever prices are going up with a few percentage points, we also increase immediately our prices. Then you can look at the average spend. It's very difficult for us to really measure how many of the guests are from, let's say, outside of the hotels and how many are, let's say, staying guests with us. Normally, what we measure is the, let's say, food spend per guest in total. And when I look at these numbers, that is fairly stable, but also driven by higher prices. So you're right that the, let's say, the amount of dishes is lower, a few percentage points lower than before like the occupancy level is. So that is following that part.

When I look at -- try to measure how much of -- how many of the guests are from the outside, I will never be able to hit that number. But I see we have a lot of restaurants where we have, especially in the major cities, where we have a lot of external guests coming in and eating and dining in the restaurants with friends and families and not staying at the hotels. But Scandic also has a lot of hotels around in the Nordic region where a lot of the guests are dining and eating in the restaurants. And they will do that because they are blue collar workers or they are families coming in and there's -- might be even a distance to the next restaurant and things like that. So I think it's stable and I do not see any worrying signs.

We try to measure if especially there's about spend if they don't buy the extra beer and buy the extra, let's say, dish because that's where of course also good margins are. They already sit at the table and we already need to service them. So if we can sell the extra beer and extra glass of wine, that's where the good margins they actually are. But we do not see a changed pattern right now.

[Jamie Rollo, analyst]

So just to clarify, if your room revenue is up 18% and your food and beverage or conference revenue is 5%. [indiscernible] stronger pricing on room rates relative to menu pricing because the volume and the occupancy are in fact both same?

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

Yes, and they're steering there, Jamie, because we have more restaurants which is closed in hours where we normally were open. For instance, we have a lot of restaurants where we have not opened for lunches because we saw that margins was either non-existing or very low. So we only open restaurants at the hours, work hours or opening hours where we see we have enough guests. So you will definitely see that it has a link and impact to that. And of course, by that, we are decreasing a few percentage points and lowering the total amount of guests. But that's, let's say, on purpose because we drive better margins by doing it.

[Operator]

This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Jens Mathiesen for any closing remarks.

[Jens Mathiesen, executive]

Thank you very much, operator, and thank you very much all for dialing in to this call. If you have any further questions, please give us a call. You can call also Rasmus directly or any of us if you have any further. Thank you for calling in, and happy to share this all-time high quarter with all of you. Have a nice day all of you.

[Operator]

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.