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Nobia AB
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Hello, and welcome to Nobia Q2 report 2021. [Operator Instructions] And today, I'm pleased to present Tobias Norrby, Head of IR. Please go ahead with your meeting.
Good afternoon, everyone, and very welcome to our presentation of Nobia's second quarter results. The presentation today will be done by our CEO, Mr. Jon Sintorn; and our CFO, Mr. Kristoffer Ljungfelt. And with that short introduction, I hand it over to you, Jon.
Thank you, Tobias, and good afternoon, everybody, and thank you for making the time to listening to this call. Let me start by going to Page #2, sharing some highlights during the second quarter. We had a strong rebound in sales and earnings, and we're now back to group sales being in line with 2019. With that said, also having the Nordics and Central Europe ahead of that and growing versus '19. We had solid earnings and margins in the Nordics as well as the Central Europe regions. Looking into the U.K. The U.K. was impacted by a lower retail order book, and that was due to the store closures and the lockdown having a big impact on the very important winter sales period in Q1 and a delayed recovery of the project market. On the positive note, we do see a good growth in the trade segment where we now have put some -- since some time has put some extra focus and efforts. The significant global demand for material impacts also now our industry, and that has caused capacity constraints and causing capacity constraints in the supply chain. Operating cash flow amounted to SEK 618 million. And a continued strong balance sheet we do have, with a financial net debt amounting to SEK 159 million. Moving on to Slide #3. Few touchpoints on the respective markets. In the Nordic market, the stay-at-home trend, strong housing markets and consumer confidence continue to support consumer sales. And we had a stable business-to-business demand driven by solid housing construction activity. So strong market development in the Nordic markets. Not as strong, but still, in the U.K., there is a strong growth in the trade market, backed by underlying consumer demand. We see recovery in the retail segment after the store reopening on April 12. However, London project market and social housing has not yet recovered. Central Europe, a strong consumer demand, supported by stay-at-home trend. Housing shortages in Netherlands supports new construction and business-to-business sales. And in Austria, our, let's call it, turnaround activities, strengthening that business is really paying off. Moving on to the Slide #4. Looking at our Tomorrow Together strategy and priorities, again, a few touchpoints. Looking at the right-hand side, growth and growth acceleration initiatives. We can see that the revitalized consumer retail is really good momentum now, not least in Denmark where we have high double-digit growth. We can see that our focus on color, color products. And for example, [ nude ], [indiscernible] And Marbodal is also really paying off. So we can see that we have a good momentum in the retail -- consumer retail segment in the Nordics. Looking at the catapult trade growth. The focus we put in and efforts we put to that particular segment in the U.K. is also now we can see a good traction and good momentum and, as a consequence, a good growth in that segment as well when we look at the U.K. Looking to the left-hand side and the left-hand lower corner, structural efficiency initiatives. A comment on the manufacturing footprint transformation, meaning building of the new factory in Jönköping. It is according -- time plan according to plan. And during the quarter, we signed a contract with Wästbygg for the building. Looking at the middle, sustainability and design leadership ambition. A few comments on design. Our efforts in new products, we call it Nordic Nature, that in the later stage will be, for example, for Marbodal Signature, expecting coming to a store near you soon. We have launched in the quarter a campaign called [Foreign Language] tone and tone, I guess, in English. And then also Nordic Creation at the HTH range is another example of some new, cool, nice, beautiful-looking kitchen being launched. So that was a few comments on our Tomorrow Together strategy and the priorities. Moving on then to Slide #5, getting some financials in summary. So for the Nobia Group, the second quarter, organic net sales increased by 35%: 13% in the Nordics, 29% in Central Europe and 97% in the U.K. region, meaning that we hit the number of SEK 3.622 billion compared to SEK 2.741 billion second quarter of 2020. Obviously, comparing to a year like the pandemic quarter of 2020, numbers get a bit distorted. But overall, it's fair to say we're back to the pre-pandemic levels in terms of net sales. So a flat growth versus '19, and that is due to the lag in the U.K. And Kristoffer will outline a bit more later on, on this. EBIT improved to SEK 347 million. We had a margin of 9.6% EBIT and a continued low leverage at 0.12. Our net cash position was SEK 255 million. And with that brief summary, some more insights in the numbers. I'm handing over to you, Kristoffer.
Thank you, Jon. So let me explain more of the sales per market, and we are on Slide #6. We start with Denmark with 23% of sales. It's having a very good momentum also in Q2. And as Jon was mentioning, retail sales has been incredibly strong in the quarter. We deem that the underlying market is strong, but that we also continue to take share on the back of both product introductions, the fully refurbished stores and, of course, a good sales team over there. The proof of good concept is that we have managed to win over some strong customers also to our franchise portfolio. Project sales in Denmark was flattish in the quarter. Sweden, as you can see, 13% of sales. It's very much the same story at Denmark, although not as high growth rates. Retail market, strong, especially the painted products. Also here, Jon mentioned the strong campaign [Foreign Language] the color pallet that is trading very well. We are somewhat concerned about the capacity constraints for painted products, which is prolonging our delivery times. The project sales in Sweden was growing just slightly in the quarter. Norway with 10% of sales has also had a strong retail market in the quarter, while project market was declining. It has taken Norway a little bit longer to come back to pre-pandemic situation. And out of all the Nordic markets, this is the market where we have had most difficulties in running our business as normal. Finland now constitutes 6% of sales, clearly has the weakest project market in the Nordics and have had so, for a long time, we're discussing many times on these calls. We believe now, however, that it's bottoming out and we foresee the market to return to growth probably in the beginning of next year. Important to add here is that we're also stepping out of some unprofitable project business. So even if retail sales was flat in Finland, the total sales in Finland was down double digit in the quarter. And then over to U.K., 37% of sales. And of which, if we start with trade, constitutes 43% of that, of the U.K. turnover. And here, we have performed very well. We believe the trade market is strong even if we compare to 2019. And Magnet's performance in this segment is also promising from a market share perspective, even though it's from a low base compared to the rest of the market. We have recently changed transport providers, increased the product availability in the stores and added joinery products to the offering in order to serve the trade segment even more efficiently as we enter the trade season now in Q3. Retail then make up 34% of sales. It's been, again back to what Jon said, hugely impacted by the lockdowns in Q1. And the order book was very weak as we entered Q2, and therefore, sales in the quarter was down even if comparing to 2019. The currently -- current order book is building in line with sales in 2019. And we expect normalized sales in Q3 given that we have no further lockdowns. With that said, retail has not been performing in line with our ambition. Project sales, 23% of sales in the U.K. The smaller property development is coming back on a nationwide basis. However, premium projects in London, social housing, soft for the moment. Again, coming back to what Jon said earlier, we believe that it will take until the first half of 2022 before we are back to pre-corona levels for our U.K. project business. Although we should see a little bit of growth coming through by the end of this year towards former levels in '19. Central Europe, they had another great quarter, and the region now represents 11% of total sales. Both Austria and The Netherlands are performing well. But we also have to keep in mind that Austria had a strong year-on-year growth due to last year's temporary closure of the factory. Netherlands continued to perform well on the back of improved private developer market and also social housing. Next slide, please, Slide #7. Just to shed some additional light on the Nordic. So all in, organic growth came in at 13%, which corresponds to 11% if comparing to 2019. And then again, growth was foremost driven by retail across all countries and especially so in Denmark. Solid gross margins of 40% despite currency losses of SEK 15 million in the quarter. The improved gross was driven by high capacity utilization, positive mix due to the growth in retail, and the retail growth also helped higher average order values. The gross margin was somewhat burdened by capacity constraints in the painted products. EBIT of SEK 321 million with an EBIT margin of 16.1% compared to 13% last year and 14.7% in Q2 2019. U.K. highlights. Slide #8, please. Growth of 97%, of course, as a result of the lockdowns last year. So if we compare to '19, the organic growth was negative 15% due to lower sales in retail and projects while trade sales was growing at a good pace. Gross margin of 36.8%, still being 3% below '19, driven by underutilization of the manufacturing capacity, especially so in our site in Dewsbury, where we produce to the social housing segment. Also, Darlington are somewhat affected by the lower volumes because of providing products for the Magnet retail business. All in all, EBIT margin of 2.4%, which is about 6 percentage points below 2019's run rate figures where we had 8.3%, just as a reference for you. Then over to Central Europe. Again, I mentioned this and also Jon that we have had a strong performance in both Austria and Netherlands. Organic growth of 29%. However, comparing to '19, and the growth was 9%. Improved gross margins, again, up to 33.7%, mainly on the back of high capacity utilization; EBIT of SEK 42 million and a margin of 11.7%. Then let me give you some details on the financial position. A stable cash flow of SEK 618 million in the quarter. And we find it good even if it was somewhat below last year, and mainly that has to do with the rebuilding of accounts receivables on the back of stronger trading this year. So it's all according to expectations. Financial net debt of SEK 159 million and the net cash position, if we back out the pension scheme, a net cash position of SEK 255 million means that we have a very solid financial balance sheet for the future. And we are now heading into a couple of quarters with higher investment on the back of the purchase of land in Jönköping and the building of the Jönköping factory and purchases of machinery to the very same building. Next one, please. So we wanted to give you a little bit more details on the discussions regarding direct materials. And as you all know and have seen across the globe, there has been supply shortages and disruptions across almost all industries in the aftermath of the corona. And we also now see mounting inflationary pressure on kitchen components, sheet materials, melamine, hinges, paint, et cetera, are all being affected. So far, the availability has been there. But we experienced large direct material price increases in the beginning of Q2 that will impact our profitability from Q3 and onwards. And we expect to compensate the on cost with price increases, which has already been implemented in all brands across all countries. However, price increases will have a lag of 3 to 4 months as we first need to dispatch the order book we already have currently. And because of ongoing discussions with customers and suppliers, we can -- at this point, not provide more details on the financial impact, the financial net impact of these changes. And so I hand over to you again, Jon.
Thank you, Kristoffer. In summary, overall, a good quarter for the group, quite, quite okay quarter. We have a very strong retail market and solid earnings in the Nordics and in Central Europe. We do have growth in the U.K. trade channel. However, other segments are still in recovery. And as just being addressed, direct material inflation, it's on us, is pushing up, but to be mitigated by price increases. However, there is a negative impact short term with a lag getting into the order book. We have strategic initiatives progressing according to plan, including the new state-of-the-art factory in Jönköping. And that, ladies and gentlemen, was the summary and the conclusion of our second quarter report from Nobia Group. Thank you.
And operator, please open up for questions.
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Victor Hansen from Nordea Research.
So you talked about the upcoming sourcing synergies on your CMD and you also restructured your business quite recently. And I'm wondering if you could quantify how these savings effect impacted the margin in Q2, please?
Yes. We do see some purchasing savings coming through in Q2. I think the big topic now for the material prices going forward, whether the synergies or not, it's the ongoing price discussions that we have suppliers on direct material.
Yes. Okay. And well, do you have any guidance on how these savings could impact you in H2 this year apart from the direct materials?
We would not [ provide ] guidance on that. Again...
Yes. Okay.
Sorry, I couldn't hear you. Were you adding something? Or sorry...
Well, apart from the direct materials, just the underlying savings.
Okay. I believe that the sourcing initiatives we have done now has shown some good improvements in the underlying run rate cost of supplies. However, given the circumstances on the market as of today, it's really hard to say how the direct material will pan out during the second half.
Okay. I understand. And would it be possible to provide some more flavor on price hikes? For instance, did I understand you correctly that the price hikes are expected to kick in from 3 to 4 months from now or from the start of Q2? And then does it differ anything by region or sales channel?
So expected to kick in 3 to 4 months from now.
[ I'm just trying to think because ], again, somewhat different depending on brand and country and the position in the market, so to say, and the segment. So that's not one number across.
There's no average that would suit there.
[ Knock on wood ].
Okay. I understand. Well, could you mention anything on how much you would say the direct materials are up year-over-year or as a percentage of your gross margin, like share of sales or anything?
Well, the problem is here that all discussions are not finalized and so on. So we would like to wait until given that update for -- until we know more in next quarter.
But mid to long term, our price increases are to mitigate this and to cover for the direct material increases. So it's a lag. It was.
Okay. So from Q1 2022, this should be mitigated if we see no further price increases in the costs?
Everything else staying the same, so to speak. The answer is yes.
Okay. Okay. Great. And regarding your U.K. trade business, could you mention what investments you are doing to strengthen trade further? And any CapEx guidance here?
I can start not with CapEx guidance really, but we have been putting a significant amount of business developers. Since some time, we had worked on our proposition in terms of both product-related features as well as availability. So those are some of the things that we have done in order to strengthen our position as [ competition according to channel ].
Okay. So basically incorporating -- yes, just continue.
Yes. No, just you asked in terms of CapEx. We have not put a great deal of CapEx into the business as of yet. And we have strengthened the manufacturing capacity to some extent, but -- and build up a little bit more stock in the store network, 150 stores to improve availability. But it's really about streamlining all processes within that business, which we have put a lot of focus on, and also harmonizing processes across the trade business in the entire group actually. So initially, it seems to pay off.
Okay. And could you provide some color on how your growth within the trade segment compares to the overall U.K. trade market?
We believe that we are doing slightly better than the market.
Okay. So in the Nordics, you achieved a good margin despite the negative currency impact. And you mentioned mix as an explanation. But what I can see in the report, your kitchen furniture, it's only up 2 percentage points quarter-over-quarter. So no big impact from that. So I'm wondering what's behind the strong margin, if you could provide flavor, please?
It's really the segment mix, which I was referring to earlier on before as well. So selling to retail has a better return for us when growing. And it also allow us to sell more surrounding products like white goods, for example. And that's why you don't see it exactly in the volume of kitchen, kitchen furnitures.
Okay. Understood. And a final question. So my view is that the construction building activity has picked up this year, for instance, in Sweden and Finland. But you mentioned that Q2 project sales were flat in the Nordics. But I'm wondering if you were seeing any positive effect on your order intake from the better building activity yet.
We are slightly optimistic on the project sales. And you're right, the construction has picked up, and we are lagging to some extent because it's just close to project completions when the kitchen are fitted. So we're a bit later in the cycle. But we would still say that there's a mixed bag depending on the countries. Whereas in Norway, we see that it's lagging a bit more. And Finland, probably come back, yes, beginning of next year, as I was alluding to before.
And the next question comes from the line of Fredrik Moregard from Pareto Securities.
First off, I'll venture actually another question on cost inflation and price increases. I appreciate that you do not want to provide any guidance for the coming quarters. But I was hoping maybe you can shed some light on the either gross or net effect of raw material inflation and pricing to offset that, how that impacted you in the second quarter, please?
Yes. In the second quarter, we didn't see -- yes.
Not really.
No big impacts in Q2.
It was announced during the Q2 and a very short notice, we got price increases from -- because of the surge of global demand and all of that to be just shared. But we didn't really -- not significantly enough to have an impact on the deliveries and the shipments we had. We saw more in June than in April, obviously. But for the total quarter, not really. And the same obviously goes for our price increases, which is related to the direct material price or cost increases, so to speak, is being carried out as we speak and slightly earlier as well as you expect. So it doesn't have any material impact in the second quarter. But we will absolutely see it coming in the third and the fourth.
Okay. Thank you very much for clarifying that. And secondly, turning to retail. Is it possible for you to maybe tell us something about the trend in the U.K. retail segment throughout the quarter? I appreciate that stores only reopened mid-April. And clearly, of course, having a lag from there until you start to deliver. But maybe if you can tell us something about the difference in May to June and so on.
Well, as we were saying earlier that, to us, a very important period -- or to the market, I should say, the kitchen market, in retail kitchen market in the U.K., it's a very important period with winter sales. And because of the closure of the stores, it was difficult for us to fill our order book in a way that we typically would do. That order book has started to be filled up better and better in the course of the second quarter, and we anticipate to get back to normal level for the rendering sales at normal level of -- in the third quarter.
Okay. You also mentioned in the call here that you're not really satisfied with how U.K. retail has developed. It hasn't really lived up to your expectations, I believe you said. Can you maybe shed some light on what more in detail that hasn't really lived up to expectations? Is this leads that you've been seeing not really coming through? Or what has been the negative impact here?
No. I think we have, with Magnet, a strong brand. And then we can see that we really have good -- with efforts and focus with how they would trade, we now can see that we're getting traction there. We will need to have a similar focus and efforts put in also in the retail market in order for us to live up -- to even better live up to the high ambitions we have being a market and a market leader in the markets where we play. So that's how we see it.
Okay. Just a final question. You mentioned that you will be stepping out of some low profit or unprofitable project business in the Finnish market. Is it possible to quantify the sort of margin profile of that business? Or something about what the Nordic margin, say, last year would have been without that business in your portfolio?
I would say it's not really significant for the Nordic market as a total, but it's important facts, and it actually makes up that it takes a little bit longer to come back to former sales levels in Finland. But again, I would say the market in Finland has a much bigger impact than the fact that we're stepping out from some unprofitable business. And also, we have been shedding light on that before. It's really important for us to get the margins up in Finland, which is lagging the rest of the Nordic countries. And we have multiple initiatives to do that, this being one, important one.
And the next question comes from the line of Adela Dashian from Handelsbanken.
Yes. Most of my questions have already been answered, but I do have a follow-up to your outlook specifically as it relates to the consumer sector. So obviously, it's kind of natural for us to move outside our homes as soon as societies reopen and that kind of results in the staycation trend vanishing or stay-at-home trend vanishing. Are you starting to experience a slowdown in the strong momentum that you've experienced so far in the consumer segment? And I'm talking specifically about the Nordics and Central Europe. Or is that booming demand still as strong as it was last summer?
No. We've had, as you said, we've seen and had a good demand situation in that segment, and we do not see slowdown at this point.
All right. And then maybe if I could also a follow-up on the price increases. It sounds like you're not willing to share any details surrounding the exact pricing increases that's taking place. But could you tell us anything about what competitors are doing? Are you seeing that they are also raising prices because of the inflationary pressures? What's going on in the marketplace?
Well, I think it's fair to say that we all will increase prices on the back of the inflationary pressure on the components. So we've seen that across the board. We'll probably see more of it as well going forward. So we will not be alone in that.
And the next question comes from the line of Sindre Sørbye from Arctic Asset Management.
Yes. A couple of questions. First, is it fair to say that on the B2B side and especially the project business that the visibility and lead time is longer, maybe 6 to 12 months as opposed to retail, which I think you said is about 3 months? And if so, do you have any cost escalation closer for those large deliveries due to construction companies?
You're right in the lead times. Some lead times for construction is even longer than that. Then going into details with the contractual arrangements, we cannot do, of course. I think it's not -- it doesn't come as a surprise to anyone that there is pressure on raw material cost. So with that in mind, I think it's fair that a company goes out and increase prices. And that's what we do. On the back of the situation, that calls for it. So I hope that can answer your question without getting into the details on the contractual arrangement that we have.
Yes, yes, yes. I understand or appreciate that. Secondly, the way -- I guess the way you report organic growth is, I mean, it encompasses both pricing as well as volumes and as well as mix. And as far I understand, there is -- the price increases have not had any significant impact in the second quarter. But is it so that -- I mean if you look at the overall 35% organic growth rate, would that correspond to volume growth? Or is it so that the increased share of retail actually is telling a story that the volume growth is lower? Because I would assume that ASP is higher for what you sell to consumers as compared to B2B customers.
On the first and then I -- Kristoffer will also add some. But first, what we said with regard to price increases, obviously, we have worked with pricing as we do every year. So we've had some price increases in the various markets and assortments and whatnot, which have had an impact during the first half of this year. What we were relating to not having an impact is the specific cost pressure during the second quarter with the specific price increases related to those that we have not seen the impact of during the second quarter. Just to clarify that part.
Okay. But it's...
A total -- yes. Well, a couple of questions in that, that you had. And I mean, again, I think we look at 2 major markets for us, U.K. and the Nordics, where it's completely different trends, right? So in the Nordics, we have had very strong growth in volumes. Also, this ordinary price increases, you could say, are okay.
Both price and specifically volume.
Exactly. Yes. And also a strong mix in the Nordics because of the consumer sales, which we don't really see any -- we don't see any impact of trailing downwards. The retail sales is quite strong there still. On the other hand, we have U.K. where the volumes, of course, have been low because of not being able to sell during Q1 and...
[ And project in Q2 ], project.
And project with Q2.
Okay. Just one more on the project market. I think you touched on that. But given that the lead times are longer and also that you see, especially in the Nordics and the U.K., building statistics are indicating that housing starts are increasing. So are you -- let's say, are your order book in the project side filling up? And I think you commented already on the U.K. But if you look at the Nordics and maybe also Netherlands where project sales are important, is that order book expanding?
I think it's too early to say, and we don't normally give guidance either on our order books going forward. And I mean let's see how it pans out, the construction market here going forward.
Okay. Okay. And then finally, just on the -- you highlighted the financial position. Cash flow was very strong even if you compare to 1 year ago. I mean there were some special items, so to speak, in the [ first quarter ] last year. But if you look at the nominal level of working capital, it's actually negative. And it was for a few quarters last year as well, but I guess that was -- or I thought it was more due to, let's say, specific factors at that time. But is the new normal -- could we expect going forward that negative working capital should be the new normal, so to speak?
We put more emphasis on working capital the last couple of years. And let's see where that would take us, so to say. We are currently feeling quite okay with the position that we're in, the levels we are running up, and we'll try to do more on that end. But again, I think the last year was also a catalyst in working even closer with both customers and suppliers on the cash flow position.
Okay. And besides that, on the cash flow side, I mean, you've given quite detailed forecast for your Jönköping investment. But apart from that, are there any, let's say, near- or medium-term investments beyond normal reinvestments that we should be aware of?
No. That's the one that would be on top of a normal run rate CapEx, so to say. So there's no other large investments in the pipeline to that extent for the moment. And that, as you know, might change. But for the moment, that's the way it is, of course.
And the next question comes from the line of Kenneth Toll from Carnegie.
Just one thing. I might be wrong here, but you said that you added some joinery products to the U.K. trade offering. But weren't you taking out products from the U.K. trade business 1 or 2 years ago in order to make that business more focused on kitchens? Am I wrong?
No, you're right. No, we're adding a smaller stuff to be even more appropriate, so to speak, or fit-for-purpose for the trade process that we have.
Yes. But you're totally right, the things we took out was not so much related to kitchen sales. It was too far out of the periphery and...
Well, adjacent enough.
Yes. And we learned from that experience and see that there are other things we're lacking. And we're building up the product availability in the store, not necessarily a big new range of joinery products. [ That's nothing ] or it's the availability here that is the key.
Okay. And then there were some talks early this year that since you lost the sort of the winter sales season in the U.K. for retail, that you might do a similar thing once when the markets were opening up, do big promotions and so on. But you didn't do that really in April, May. Am I right?
First of all, I want you to remember that the winter sales period is nationwide standard. The fact -- I don't know how to paint it really, but that's the period with a lot of people since a long time have been accustomed to do their purchasing. And then the slot times are spread throughout almost the entire year, but specifically -- or more so in the second quarter. That type of nationwide quarter -- not quarterly, but nationwide period would not appear later in the year. Then at times, we do campaigns, and we have some discount periods and workloads and we had a little bit of that in this period as well. That's the nature of [indiscernible].
Okay. And then also, you said that also that -- I mean, it's no news to anyone that the price increases are coming when you talked about your longer contracts for the new build segment. But now you are getting squeezed on the retail side. So wasn't it possible to try to increase prices early or when you saw price increases coming?
We don't feel we get squeezed on the retail side. Can you explain what you mean by it?
No, I -- okay, I think you said that you had a lag for 3 to 4 months when you increase prices, so that you're -- to work off the order book. And now the raw material prices have started to increase and you have sort of raised prices, but that it would be a negative hit on margins in the third quarter for higher raw material prices.
Okay. Yes, yes. No, it's the -- you're right in terms of the order book, that's already there. For some retail business, will have a lag, of course. The price increase from suppliers come more or less immediate, you could say. So that's why we get a lag. But we are very confident that we can -- that's on a very short-term basis. But we're very confident that we can have a net effect or better given for mid and long term on that.
[Operator Instructions] We have another question from the line of Mattias Holmberg from DNB.
I have one question on the CapEx spend for the new factory. I recall you had a sort of an indication of how the cash outflow profile would look like. And it seems like you're running quite significantly below what was indicated for Q2 '21. So perhaps you could shed some light on that, if there are any discrepancies or if it's going to be sort of back-end loaded, the cash outflow this year?
Yes. Most of what's supposed to happen in Q2 has moved over to Q3. So it's not any delay, so to say, in terms of project. It's rather delayed in terms of payment and purchase of land in Jönköping, which we postponed a month. So...
Okay. So we can expect sort of the full year impact to be roughly as you've showed at the Capital Markets Day?
Yes. And right now, we're in the midst of finalizing a lot of contracts, et cetera, with machine deliveries and the building, as Jon was alluding to. So that's where the cash out will really happen during this fall.
And as there are no further questions, I'll hand it back to the speakers for any closing remarks.
Very good. Well, then that's it from our side, and we wish you all a happy summer and talk to you again on October 26 for the third quarter results. Thank you.
Thank you.
This concludes the conference call. Thank you all for attending. You may now disconnect your lines.