Loomis AB

STO:LOOMIS

Earnings Call Transcript 2020-Q1

[Operator]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to today's Loomis Group Q1 '20 Report Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Patrik Andersson, President and CEO of the company. Please go ahead, sir.

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

Thank you very much. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the first quarter presentation from Loomis. I'm Patrik Andersson. And today, I have Kristian Ackeby, CFO; and also Anders Haker, Chief Investor Relations Officer, with me here on the call. I will give a short update or a short overview, and then I open up for questions. So let's start the presentation and turn to the next page, which is called The Corona Pandemic. So just some short comments on the corona pandemic situation and how we have handled it.First of all, as many other companies, the well-being of our employees is on the top of our agenda, and we've taken a number of measures to safeguard our employees. We have disinfected the branches. We have handed out masks. We have worked on social distancing and also a lot of information to our employees. And I would also like to say that in these difficult times, the Loomis employees have done a fantastic job in maintaining the high quality despite a very challenging situation. I really personally would like to thank all the Loomis employees for their hard work and dedication.Thirdly, there has been a lot of false rumors circulating on -- in media but also in social media about the cash -- that cash is spreading the virus. And these rumors have been denied by many medical experts, also including European Central Bank, the WHO, the Swedish National Bank and so on and so forth. I just want to like to -- also to mention that cash in circulation, both in Eurozone and in the U.S., never been as high as it is right now. So just give you some numbers. So cash and circulation in Eurozone reached historical peak in March to EUR 19 billion, and that's the highest since 2008. In the U.S., it's the same situation. We have -- cash in circulation has grown by $81 billion to $1.88 trillion according to the Federal Reserve. This is also the highest level since 2008 and '09. So we see that every day in our work that the central banks are really, really, really pushing and making sure that the cash cycle is working.And then also connected to the next point that we have a very important role in a situation like this to see that the cash ecosystem is working. So we have actually a part of the infrastructure of a society, I would say. But it's also, for us, a good possibility is to take advantage of the situation we're having and really see that all customers are getting served. And we are here to come out stronger after the crisis than we went in. That's our view. And all Loomis branches are working, but not all on full capacity, but all are up and running.We also see that the negative effects on Loomis in the first quarter were rather limited, but we expect, of course as many others, to have a bit more challenging situation, especially in April. We see increased volumes within food retailing, which is, of course, following the pattern -- general pattern in society, but we also see that coming from ATM withdrawals and ATM services.We have decided to postpone the capital expenditure as much as we can, but we are not stopping any capital expenditure that is sort of building our future and long-term growth. We have worked a lot on reduction of the variable costs, and we have a very good track record of doing that in integrating business but also to -- in a fast and efficient way, cut costs and that is our -- in our DNA and also in what we call the Loomis model.We have also decided -- or the Board has decided to postpone the dividend, which was at SEK 11 a share and the plan is to have extra AGM later this year to take a decision. We also a new credit facility of SEK 1.2 billion signed to really strengthen the balance sheet even further. So we -- in short, we are well prepared operationally and financially to meet this challenge as we have seen.Then I move to the next slide, which is highlights, and these are the highlights of the quarter. I will come back to some of these later in the presentation. As I mentioned, we have decided to stop the dividend for later. We have also announced the acquisition of Nokas cash handling in Sweden in January and Automatia, which is an ATM company in Finland in February, and we are waiting for approval from the local authorities on that and that's expected later 2020.Real growth was 2% in the quarter, and we have, of course, the acquisition in France that we did that -- when we bought the Prosegur operations in France. We did that in June -- July 2019, which is, of course, affecting the numbers. We had a good momentum, a good speed, I would say, into the pandemic. So organic growth with -- in total, was 0% in the quarter versus 2% last year. As I mentioned, there are some areas within food retail and ATM, which is growing. And we also see that Europe delivered very good positive revenue growth in the first 2 months. But then, of course, the impact in March was there and pulled down the organic growth. And U.S. very positively impacted by the SafePoint growth, which is continuing. I'll come back to that.Operating margin, 11%, of course, then a higher impact in Europe, as I mentioned, in the quarter, but still margin is kept on a high level. And we have also then strong results overall from the U.S. operation.Then last but not least, on cash flow, we had a very strong cash flow in the quarter. And that's -- that is due to the fact that we had effect -- positive working capital movement. That's the main reason, but there are also some other movements but overall, a strong cash flow in the quarter.So let's turn to the next page and just have a short view on how the margins developed in the historical perspective. So this is actually the second best Q1 ever when it comes to operating margin since the IPO, which I think is showing strength in a very special time.So let's turn to the next page, which is then a segment Europe. As I mentioned, we are then working, of course, on the acquisition within France. And in effect, France is now a 2-player market, as I mentioned before. We have, of course, had to make a short stop when it comes to integration process to realize the synergies of the Prosegur acquisition, but we will pick that up as soon as possible, and we are very sure that we will reach the targets from that acquisition.Organic growth, minus 2% in the quarter. As I mentioned before, end of March, we saw an effect in Europe, until then, a very good momentum. We have identified many growth opportunities in many countries as banks are now outsourcing even more. Central banks are looking for new opportunities. There are customers that's not been taken care of, et cetera. So we don't say the last year for the bottom line, but we rather also invest for the future.We also see a remarkable upswing when it comes to precious metals business in France. That's the CPoR business, and that's lifting also the result of CPoR. But that's mainly based on then the precious metal business.Operating margin, 9.7%, as I mentioned, negatively affected in the end of March. But also the French business that we acquired, we should keep in mind, is also having a diluting effect on the margin for now, but that will, of course, change. So I would say Europe shows a strength in difficult times. I'm very happy with the European result in these times.Then we move to next slide, which is then U.S. and U.S. had an organic growth 2%, and we see that approximately 12% revenue growth for the SafePoint business, and we continue to have a very strong momentum and pipeline for the SafePoint business. And now SafePoint services account for up -- for as much as 17% of the total U.S. revenues, which is, of course, having an impact on the margin, as you will see later on.CMS, Cash Management Services, 34% of total revenue also increasing its share. And I'm really happy to say that high-quality service has maintained during this period of time, and we see an inflow of new customers as we have kept everything open, and we're really focused on servicing our customers. And we really would like to take this opportunity to grow with existing and new customers.Operating margin on an all-time high level in Q1 despite these challenges. So a growing margin with 1.2 -- 1.1% really shows strength. And of course, SafePoint is having an impact on the margin but also that we continue to focus on customers that are willing to pay for the quality and the service we are providing. We will not have any diluting contracts in the portfolio. We are serving the customers in a good way. And of course, we want to get paid for that. And we have a very strong efficiency program going on constantly, but that we, of course, scale up when it comes to situations like this. So I would say the Loomis model is working very well in a situation like this. So a very strong result in Q1 in the U.S., very good from the U.S. team.Let's turn to the next page, which is then the statement of income. And then there is not very much to say. I've mentioned many of these points before. A summary, we have kept growing and kept a good margin, a high margin in also a quarter which is highly affected by the coronavirus.So let's turn to the next page and then go to the Q&A. And I say, operator, we now open up for questions, please.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] We will now take our first question.

[Daniel Thorsson, Research Analyst]

It's Daniel from ABG. Just make sure if you hear me.

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

Yes, we can hear you.

[Daniel Thorsson, Research Analyst]

Excellent. Okay. So my first question relates to SafePoint. Can you comment anything on net installations in Q1 so far? And then also given -- I guess it is physical sales model here where you actually meet your clients. How do you think of the rest of 2020? Can you give some kind of highlights or guidance on that in the U.S.?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

So first question is we had a net new installation of about 1,000 SafePoints in the quarter. So in total, we have now 32,000 SafePoints installed. The base is 32,000 and 1,000 in the quarter. And then I didn't really hear your second question. Can you repeat that, please?

[Daniel Thorsson, Research Analyst]

Yes. What about the rest of the year? I guess it is a quite intensive physical sales model where you meet your clients to sell new. So how should we think about net installations for the coming 3 quarters?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

It's very difficult to say, as you say, it's -- we have a good pipeline, of course, and we're working on the pipe -- and so we have signed and closed contracts, and we're working to install that base, and that will continue as much as we can. Then, of course, we're trying to negotiate with customers in different ways than we did before. But of course, I expect to have some impact on that in the next couple of months. But we're trying to keep the speed up as much as we can.

[Daniel Thorsson, Research Analyst]

Okay. Good. And then the second question, given the minus 25% decline in April and somewhat higher in Europe, are you close to be loss-making in Europe in April?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

We are a bit careful now on giving numbers on the EBITDA because it's -- now we're working so much with a cost-cutting exercise and so on. So it's very difficult to give you a clear -- a good answer on the bottom line. So I would pass on that one and just focus on the 25%.

[Daniel Thorsson, Research Analyst]

Okay. Fair enough. And then a final one on the industry. Have you historically seen any pent-up demand? Is that actually something that happens in the industry when you have kind of a lockdown or a slower growth rate that you see a higher demand when you come out of that?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

That's a good question. I think that what we -- we very much follow the general consumption in a country, so -- in a society. So when consumption goes down, we go down. Maybe not as much as people think, but -- and then when it goes up, we follow. So I have a hard time to say anything that it should ramp up. I don't know. What we can see at least is a lot of our activities from the central banks in all countries to really safeguard the cash cycle. And there is a lot of activities going on, which is sort of giving us a bit of a cushion when, of course, the general spending goes down a bit.

[Operator]

We will now take our next question.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

It's Peter Testa from One Investments. A couple of questions, please. I was just interested in trying to understand your opportunities to variabilize your cost base. And we have all the various labor programs from governments at this point in time. And I was wondering if you had any thoughts as to what the proportion of your labor cost you could move in line with revenue or how much of your cost base, whether labor or you can use government programs to move in line of revenue and also your truck network base you can -- cost base you can move in line with revenue.

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

I'll leave that to Kristian to try to answer.

[Kristian Ackeby, Chief Financial Officer]

Good. So thank you very much for the question there. Looking into our cost and the personnel cost that you refer to, it's approximately 55% of our total cost base, the salaries we do pay. The movements you will see in short term will differ a lot from country to country. Some countries, it's much faster to make the changes when volumes goes down, like, for example, in U.S. and then in some other areas, like, for example, in certain countries in Europe, it takes longer time to take -- to reduce the workforce. But at the same time, you can get subsidies. So what we work with is, of course, to get the subsidies where it takes longer time to get the workforce reduced and take out the cost. I will not be able and will not give you a number about how variable we see it. But what you probably should expect is it goes faster in U.S. In Europe, it will partly be mitigated by subsidies, but you will have a timing impact in Europe compared with U.S.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

Okay. But on the labor side, do you think that you will in -- within a balance of weeks be able to use the subsidy to achieve the variable level that will be similar to the U.S. in that regard in terms of your labor?

[Kristian Ackeby, Chief Financial Officer]

I will not make a specific comment on that one. I cannot do that.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

Okay. I didn't know whether it was timing or magnitude. That was my question. Okay. And then the question is also on the truck fleet to the extent to which you have your variable fleet costs that you can move at this time also. Proportion of your costs were -- in addition to labor were variable fleet costs.

[Kristian Ackeby, Chief Financial Officer]

Yes. The fleet cost in total is approximately 8%, 8.5% in relation to revenue. And then it's, of course, partly related to depreciation or leasing costs depend on how they are financed. But the really -- the sort of 100% variable cost is the fuel and the fuel is approximately 1/4, 1/5 of the total vehicle cost so that you can have in your estimation.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

Right. Okay. And are there other steps you can take to manage your cost base outside of labor. Are you looking at some, for example, closing some centers at the time or other factors? Or is the labor flexibility your primary tool?

[Kristian Ackeby, Chief Financial Officer]

It's a lot of actions ongoing in each and every country, and it can be, for example, like you are touching, it's people related. It's vehicle related. And on vehicle, it can be, for example, that we put them a week and not being used, put them on hold, so to say. So we don't -- we can reduce insurance cost. We can reduce fuel cost but also some of the fixed cost when we put them sort of on hold. So it's a lot of different activities. Looking into what can we do on rent. Of course, we will ask our landlords what can be done on the rent side and so on. So a lot of cost action activities ongoing.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

Right. And then on the other side, as you come out of this period of shutdown, have you had any conversations with your customers about their restart plans? I mean there's some customers, retail -- large retail chains have talked about opening. Not all are reopening. Not all of the stores are accelerating from store closures. But can you give any sense of how you've got a comment from your customers on the other side and restart, and how much -- how quickly or how -- the magnitude do you think they will restart?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

Again, it depends a bit on country to country, but it's very much following the sort of how the country is tackling the situation. But I can say that all -- we are at constant contact with our retailer -- retail customers. And as soon as possible, they would like to open because they cannot be closed for a long time. So as soon as the country is open up, the retailers are there to open up as soon as possible, as soon as they are allowed, and then we are there to support them. So I think that it's all focused on getting open as soon as possible it's allowed.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

Okay. And last question, please. If you look at the -- how your revenue line depends upon number of stops versus volume of cash. Can you give any sense in terms of how your revenue line splits between, say, those 2 categories and whether there's a big difference within Europe and the U.S.?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

No, I -- we cannot give you a number on that. But you're right. I mean one thing is that we have a fixed -- we have -- for many customers, we have a fixed base price, and that's not changed during this crisis. So that's also a bit of a cushion. Of course, then the variable cost -- variable pricing goes down, of course. But I cannot give you a number, which is relevant right now. Sorry about that.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] We will take our next question.

[Johan Dahl, Analyst]

Yes, Johan Dahl with Danske Bank here. Just had a question. Now as society recovers here, hopefully, after April and forward, is there anything in the contractual terms with your customers that would sort of delay a recovery in your business volumes, i.e. certain cancellations, et cetera, here in March, April, which will sort of take time to recover. So is there any such thing we should be aware of?

[Kristian Ackeby, Chief Financial Officer]

No. No, you should not. I mean as soon -- as I said before, as soon as they open up, we have to serve them. So there's no delay or anything stopping recovery, no.

[Johan Dahl, Analyst]

Could you say something, Patrik, regarding SafePoint sales in April?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

As I said, it's a good momentum. And we have, as always, a backlog on installations. So that we're trying to keep the installations going as much as possible. So I'm -- I think it's on a decent level, I would say, and continue. And then after that, after April, we don't really know, but so far, so good.

[Johan Dahl, Analyst]

What are you seeing in terms of being through the trough here? Would you argue that as some of your competitors did yesterday that April was a trough? Or can you share anything with us there?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

No, April is a -- just to be clear on April is -- or I would say that in the end of March, we saw a sharp decline, first, as I mentioned in Europe and then after that also in the U.S. But then it stayed on that sharp decline. So it's not a curve that is going down. It's like a -- it goes very sharp down, and then you hit the floor and has been staying on that level during April. So that's the shape of the curve, if you like. And then hopefully, as societies are opening up, we should then also be able to recover from that.

[Operator]

We will take our next question.

[Dan Johansson, Equity Research Analyst]

Dan Johansson at SEB. 2 questions from me. First one on working capital. Are you being a bit more flexible now with payment terms as I assume some of your customers could be suffering quite severely in this situation? Second question, you're alluding a bit that you're advancing your position in certain markets. Could you say a few words on the potential market share gains? And will you perhaps prioritize a bit more of organic growth compared to M&A in the sort of medium term?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

Then I'll start with the 2 last questions, and then I hand over to Kristian. I think that to -- I think that M&A, of course, we are working in M&A, but there is a stand still when it comes to M&A. I think that, first of all, it's very difficult to meet and talk about the sensitive things, but also what kind of valuation should you use in a time like this? Is it pre-corona, post-corona? What's happening? So I think that is a bit of a standstill, even though it's not a total standstill when it comes to M&A. I think that, that will gain momentum quite quickly again. And then, of course, if you have a financial strength, that also gives you opportunities when it comes to M&A that some of our colleagues or competitors will have issues and of course, maybe want to sell. So that's opening up other possibilities.I think that what we said also when it comes to organic growth, what we said from the beginning of this crisis is that we should not jeopardize the quality of the service or the interaction with the customers. We need to be there for our customers. And we see that many customers have appreciated that and also that some other customers want to join us. And there are many examples of that. And that is very, very important for us that we take the chance to grow our market shares. And of course, it's early days still, but that at least is the aim, and there are a lot of opportunities, I would say, to do that, yes.

[Kristian Ackeby, Chief Financial Officer]

Okay. And looking into the working capital and accounts receivable specifically. We're looking into Q1, we have -- first, to say with the cash flow, we have a positive timing in accounts receivable in Q1, which was partly a backlog, you could say, from Q4, where we had the negative timing of some delays in payments. When we look into the end of March, we have a stable DSO. So that is well in line with prior year. And we do not see a significant or an increase in bad debt as of now. And that are the most important part for us now to follow. If we would change payment terms or not, that is totally individual and nothing that we will do from here.

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

So that's a country-to-country decision when it comes to the payment terms. And I think, to be honest, that in one -- some of our countries, we have been a bit flexible when it comes to payments with some of our customers. But that's very much on a case-by-case basis.

[Operator]

We will now take our next question.

[Mikael Löfdahl, Research Analyst]

Yes. It's Mikael at Carnegie in Stockholm. Just one clarification. Most of my questions were answered. But one clarification on SafePoint, the growth you are reporting, is that growth number organic? Or is it in Swedish kronas?

[Kristian Ackeby, Chief Financial Officer]

The SafePoint growth is organic.

[Operator]

We will take our next question.

[Daniel Thorsson, Research Analyst]

Daniel from ABG again. I got also a couple of my questions already answered. But I have a final one. Have you received any governmental grants so far in any countries?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

Yes, in some countries, we have. I cannot give you detailed pictures, but we -- in some countries, we have, yes. So we have been very fast on sort of using those possibilities, but that's been opened up. Yes.

[Daniel Thorsson, Research Analyst]

Have they affected the Q1 profitability to any extent? Or -- and do you expect that to affect margins in Q2 to any extent at all?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

No, no significant impact in Q1. I think that will have an impact on Q2 to some extent, yes.

[Kristian Ackeby, Chief Financial Officer]

And this -- a big portion is to support the -- on the salary side.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] We will take our next question.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

It's Peter Testa, again. So just to go back to my question on variable versus pickups. Would it be fair to assume that CIT is roughly related to number of stops that SafePoint is obviously a fee business and that CMS has got the variable component to volume of cash?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

I think we'll let -- Anders Haker, do you want your perspective on these things? Do you want to answer that one, please?

[Anders Haker, Chief Investor Relations Officer]

Sure. It's correct, as you say, that the CIT business is mainly dependent on the number of stops we do. And the CMS business is primarily a function of how many bags we count. It doesn't necessarily mean that if we make less stops that we count less bags. So you would probably see a more immediate impact when it comes to volumes on the CIT side than on the CMS side but is a long perspective, they're all tied together. If we make more stops in the long term, we will have more cash to count for the CMS business. So it works both ways.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

Right. So as you pick back -- please.

[Anders Haker, Chief Investor Relations Officer]

Yes. So I mean the short answer to your question would be that you probably see a more quicker impact on the CIT business than on the CMS business in these type of circumstances.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

Right. And then on the way back up, with the stores reopen, they may not have all the shoppers. You'd see a rapid pickup in the CIT business and the CMS business would pick up as the volume of, say, sales through QSR or stores picked up? Is that? Yes. Fine.

[Anders Haker, Chief Investor Relations Officer]

Yes. Confirmed.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

And then the other question, you mentioned a number of times market share opportunities, customers talking to you about service and so on. Can you give any sort of comment or context -- and banks outsourcing as to maybe how the pipeline has changed either in terms of retail customers or in terms of bank outsourcing?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

I didn't hear you very well. But the first one is, I think that some of our customers may be not really happy with the situation they have and with someone else. And then they are reaching out to us. That's quite an opportunity, I would say, in many of the countries. That's number one. Number two is that -- what I'm trying to say also in the beginning is this situation opens up some other opportunities like banks trying to outsource more of their services like the ATM services. All central banks are trying to find ways to outsource some of their cash services. And these opportunities that open and -- is opening up now in these circumstances. It's not only about gaining market share or gaining contracts from other customers, but there are also new opportunities opening up. So these are the 2 possibilities. And then I missed your question -- second question. I think it was about SafePoint.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

Well, it was just a general, whether you could talk about this as a qualified pipeline at this stage and maybe also SafePoint with retail customers, et cetera. Just trying to understand in this period where it's obviously more challenging to execute sales, whether you sound like you're actually getting a sales pipeline. I'm trying to understand if you would call this qualified pipeline or initial discussions?

[Anders Haker, Chief Investor Relations Officer]

No. I think that -- of course, if you cannot meet and negotiate contracts with customers when it comes to SafePoint, that is, of course, it's hindering. And also customers now have other things to think about than installing SafePoint. So of course, I think in the short term, that will have some kind of impact. That's naive to think anything like that. Having said that, we have a very strong pipeline when it comes to SafePoint opportunities.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

Right. But the conversations with banks and Central Bank on cash services, banks and ATM, are those turning into pipeline type conversations? Or are they the sort of initial exploratory?

[Anders Haker, Chief Investor Relations Officer]

No, no, no. I mean I think that both -- some of these have happened. I cannot quantify that, but some of these opportunities turn into reality, but there are a lot of discussions going on at the same time about these things. Yes. That's the pipeline. Yes.

[Operator]

We will take our next question.

[Thomas Graf, Research Analyst]

Do you hear me?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

Yes.

[Kristian Ackeby, Chief Financial Officer]

Yes.

[Thomas Graf, Research Analyst]

Great. Just are you developing anything similar to -- we heard the Brink's complete that they mentioned. Are you looking at any similar solution to that?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

I haven't all the details about the Brink's solution. But we are constantly working on innovating our SafePoint offering and also in terms of how we can finance that and find the best solution for the finance of our customers. So I don't know exactly what it is, but I can assure you that we are doing a lot of work when it comes to the SafePoint offering, both on the technology platform, but also on the financial services around that. So that's high on the agenda, I can say.

[Thomas Graf, Research Analyst]

Okay. Great. It's Thomas Graf here from Handelsbanken, I'd say. Just one question. I came in late to the call. I don't know if you mentioned, but are you seeing any sort of behavioral worries with the corona situation that the people are worried for cash and so on. I know you stated that experts and WHO says that shouldn't say, but any behavioral changes? Have you noticed that?

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

No, we haven't seen that in general, any behavioral changes. We see -- as I said in the beginning, I mean, I think that what we very much, we follow the development of the society. If the economy goes down, we go down with it, of course. But nothing specific when it comes to people afraid. There has been some campaigns around not using cash and so on, but that has not -- as we have seen any impact on our business so far, at least.

[Operator]

We will now take our next question.

[Mikael Löfdahl, Research Analyst]

Again, it's Mikael at Carnegie, again. Just a follow-up on the question regarding CIT and the impact now short-term and medium-term from COVID-19. I mean if the customer closes down -- let's say, H&M closes down a store. Obviously, there's no need for a pickup as the store is close, but you still have a contract with that customer. So first question is how have you sort of -- has that contract been honored? Or I mean are you still getting paid regardless of the stores being closed since there's a contract? That's one question. Second question is, if then a store is closed and then as it opens up now in some countries, in the next couple of days, we have Germany, we have Denmark, I think, on Monday and so on when shops are -- will be opened up, have you sort of changed -- in discussions with these customers, have you reduced the number of stops initially because the customers are foreseeing a lower activity in the stores? So no need for maybe twice -- 2 pickups per week, maybe just 1 or so. So yes, that's my questions.

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

I think we leave that to Anders again. He's an expert on this model. So I think that, Anders, if you like, can you please answer?

[Anders Haker, Chief Investor Relations Officer]

Yes, sure. The -- I mean the effect we saw in April is, of course, that there are a fewer stops and fewer bags to count on the CMS side. And it's each individual contract with each customer needs to be discussed on an individual basis. But in general, if there are -- if the shop closes down, there is no pickup. But the price that we discuss and agree with each customer is, at the end, based on expected volumes. I mean the more services you get, the higher the price -- or the lower the price you pay. And if those volumes change over time, then we need to discuss pricing with the customers, so it's an individual discussion, but there is a time lag, of course, that we get quickly affected in these type of situations when the customers demand their services. But there is also a quick recovery when the economies go back to a more normal situation.

[Mikael Löfdahl, Research Analyst]

But correct me if I'm wrong, but the fee per stop is very, very small for a store, for instance. So the amount that the store can save from reducing the number of stops from 2 to 1 a week, for instance, is extremely small in the whole sense.

[Anders Haker, Chief Investor Relations Officer]

Yes. So therefore, there is -- I don't think that it's the first -- it's not a top priority for our customers to cut down on the number of CIT stops because there are so many other items in the cost structure of our customers that are more important than our services. But of course, I mean, in the long run, our customers need to look at their total cost structure. So therefore, there is -- we are affected as well.

[Operator]

There are no further questions at this time. Please continue.

[Patrik Andersson, CEO & President]

All right. I heard there is no more question. I thank you very much for joining the conference call. And as I say to my employees, take care out there. Be careful. Thank you very much.

[Operator]

That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may all disconnect.