Instalco AB

STO:INSTAL

Earnings Call Analysis

Instalco navigates challenging market with stable margins and cautious growth

Instalco reported a 4.6% decline in net sales to SEK 3.6 billion for Q2 2024, emphasizing a focus on margins over volume amid a challenging market. EBITDA stood at SEK 265 million with a 7.2% margin, down from 7.7% last year. The order backlog remained steady at over SEK 9 billion. The company highlighted a shift towards service revenue, which constituted 33% of sales. Instalco launched a new business area, Inmatiq, to enhance its automation offerings. Ongoing measures to protect margins included efficiency programs and selective project choices. Despite current market difficulties, positive signs like high order backlogs and demand for technical services indicate a gradual improvement ahead.

Setting the Stage: Instalco's Market Position

Instalco is a leading installation group operating in Sweden, Norway, and Finland, focusing on installation services amidst a challenging market. The market has faced deterioration in project availability, leading to strategic choices in project selection, where profitability has been prioritized over volume. With a legacy of 160 companies and a workforce of over 6,200 employees, Instalco remains committed to facilitating the green transformation, which continues to create demand in the sector.

Q2 Performance Overview

In the second quarter, Instalco reported net sales of approximately SEK 3.6 billion, marking a decline of 4.6% compared to the previous year. Organic growth was down by 6.4%, reflecting the cautious approach towards project acquisition. However, acquired growth of 2.1% helped mitigate the decline, particularly in the rest of the Nordics. Notably, the order backlog remained stable at just over SEK 9 billion, suggesting a resilient pipeline for future projects.

Focusing on Margins Amidst Declining Sales

The company's EBITDA for Q2 was SEK 265 million with a margin of 7.2%, slightly down from 7.7% year-over-year. Despite the decrease, this performance underscores Instalco's focus on maintaining strong margins even in adverse conditions. Management emphasized selective project selection and implementing operational efficiencies to protect margins amid the tightening market.

Geographic Insights: Sweden and the Nordics

In Sweden, net sales declined to SEK 2.55 billion, reflecting organic growth down 7.1%. Interestingly, acquisitions contributed positively with an increase of 1.4%. The northern regions of Sweden showed stronger demand compared to the south, with expectations of increased activity driven by energy efficiency investments and a favorable interest rate environment. In contrast, Finland experienced stable but low demand while Norway maintained a cautious yet consistent market level.

Positive Trends on the Horizon

Despite current challenges, Instalco reports signs of market recovery, including growing order books from large construction firms. With the upturn in demand for technical consulting services and stabilizing interest rates, there is cautious optimism for gradual market improvement. However, the nature of Instalco's services being late cyclical means that these positive trends might take time to reflect in financial figures.

Introducing Inmatiq: A Strategic Growth Initiative

Instalco launched a new business area called Inmatiq focused on automation solutions in line with sustainable practices. This initiative aims to leverage existing knowledge from their Intec brand, which already has over 400 technical consultants employed across three countries. Inmatiq is anticipated to enhance Instalco's service offerings significantly, contributing to energy efficiency and operational improvements in customer facilities.

Cash Flow and Financial Stability

Operating cash flow for Q2 totaled SEK 158 million, down from SEK 225 million the prior year, attributed to lower EBITDA and increased working capital requirements. Instaco's cash conversion rate improved from 81% to 89%, showcasing effective management of working capital. The company declared a dividend of SEK 179 million, adhering to its policy of returning 30% of net income to shareholders, demonstrating ongoing commitment to shareholder value.

Challenges and Strategic Outlook

Although Instalco's leverage post-Q2 rose slightly to 2.6x EBITDA, management maintains a stable outlook and plans to actively pursue selective acquisitions while focusing on internal growth strategies like the successful expansion of Inmatiq. The management recognizes the ongoing market risks but remains confident in Instalco's approach to navigate these hurdles while positioning itself for future profitable expansion.

Looking Ahead: Guidance and Expectations

The management refrained from providing specific revenue forecasts but indicated potential indicators of organic growth returning in the future. With a robust backlog and a focus on energy-efficient projects, Instalco expresses optimism that gradual improvements in market conditions will begin to reflect in their financials in the latter half of the year.

Earnings Call Transcript 2024-Q2

[Operator]

Welcome to the Instalco Q2 presentation for 2024. [Operator Instructions]



Now I will hand the conference over to CEO, Robin Boheman and CFO, Christina Kassberg. Please go ahead.

[Robin Boheman, executive]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this presentation of Instalco's report for the second quarter of 2024. My name is Robin Boheman, CEO of Instalco. And with me today, I have our CFO, Christian Kassberg.



I think you all know this slide by now, but to give a quick recap, Instalco is one of the leading installation groups in the market of Sweden, Norway and Finland. As you all know, we operate in a very decentralized module, but with strict control mechanisms.



In total, we have over 6,200 employees working every day to help facilitate the green transformation. Demand for our services that we offer is supported by several strong underlying market drivers and obviously, green transformation being one of them.



When looking at these figures for rolling 12 months, we clearly report a stable development. We have sales of above SEK 14 billion and order backlog reaching above SEK 9 billion. We have an EBITDA of SEK 1051 million and contributing to an EBITDA margin of 7.4%, solid cash flow of SEK 907 million, and the number of companies is now 160 companies within the group.



Some quarter highlights from the second quarter. First of all, in our numbers, we are seeing the results of how the market gradually worsened during 2023. The projects that we are now delivering on were the most -- were for most part, I would say, taken during the second half of last year. But I'm very happy to see that despite the market-driven challenges we have faced during this period, we remain by far best-in-class when it comes to our EBITDA margin, which in the quarter ended up at 7.2% and SEK 265 million. We are now starting to see positive signs in the market, but it will take time before it materializes in our books.



Some examples of this includes, for instance, record high-order books when it comes to large construction companies. We see high demand for our technical consultants, and we are also seeing a lower interest rate environment. But exactly when, it's hard to pinpoint that we'll see this shift, but we are expecting a slow gradual improvement as the market continues to turn.



And last, but definitely not least, during Q2, we launched a very exciting new business area and on basically the back of our success with Intec, and I will come back to this a little bit more in depth in the presentation.



But for now, I will hand over to you, Christina, to take us through the financial development in more detail.

[Christina Kassberg, executive]

Thanks, Robin. I will start with a slide here where we can see the increase in the net sales with a comparison of Q2 present and prior year as well as the development of the order backlog.



Acquired growth represented 2.1% with the biggest percentage increase within rest of Nordics. Organically, the top line was down 6.4%, reflecting our focus on margins over volumes in the current market environment. In total, net sales declined by 4.6% and amounted to slightly above SEK 3.6 billion.



During the quarter, the backlog remained essentially flat, both compared to the same period last year as well as sequentially. By the end of the quarter, the backlog amounted a bit over SEK 9 billion. We have maintained our cautious approach to order-taking, prioritizing the right project for the right customers.



We have, for several quarters now highlighted how well our subsidiaries have adapted to the lower number of good projects in the market by instead focusing more on service. This revenue from service, which is not included in the backlog remained at a high level of 33% in Q2, which also reflects growth in absolute numbers.



This slide shows the quarterly trend of EBITDA in both millions and margin. In Q2, our EBITDA amounted to SEK 265 million, corresponding to a margin of 7.2%. While this is lower than the 7.7% last year and we are far from satisfied, it is still a proof of strength given the market environment. The absolute majority of our installations are late cyclical and the projects delivered during Q2 were to a large extent, taken during the second half or late 2023, when we saw market conditions worsening.



We have talked a lot about our careful project selection given the circumstances, but we are not completely immune. Also today, we maintain our focus on profitability over volume and remain selective and balanced regarding which order we take.



As mentioned last quarter, we are taking measures where needed to protect our margins, implementing efficiency programs in some of our companies where that is necessary. We are proud to remain best-in-class among the larger players in our market also in Q2.



Over to slide that summarizes segment Sweden in Q2. Geographical differences in demand and pricing remain. The market is still strongest in the northern parts of the country and somewhat weaker in Stockholm and Southern Sweden. But for our technical consulting services, demand is improving, and this is a good indication since they are early in the same cycle as our installation offering.



For Sweden, overall, we also noticed the positive signs Robin just talked about, such as high order backlog for large construction companies and increased interest in energy efficiency investments and the lowered interest rate, which will stimulate demand.



Overall, net sales were down to SEK 2.55 billion, while organic growth was down by 7.1%, which is less than in Q1. Acquisitions contributed with a growth of 1.4%. Profitability was also affected by the projects delivered in the quarter, which I talked about in the previous slide, and EBITDA amounted to SEK 182 million, corresponding to a margin of 7.1%.



Meanwhile, the order backlog remained roughly flat and increased somewhat in relation to net sales over the last 12 months.



And a summary for rest of Nordics segment. The development of the market in Finland has been stable in recent quarters, though at a relatively low level. The interest rate situation makes the construction industry cautious while other areas such as service, industrial operations and, for example, data cable projects are running according to plan. Increased defense investments are expected in construction and infrastructure.



In comparison, the market in Norway remains at a relatively high level, with some caution being exhibited when it comes to decisions about project starts without much change from previous quarters, though we can notice more positive signs for the future.



For Instalco, this translated to an essential flat net sales development in Q2. Organically, net sales were down by 5%, while acquisitions contributed a positive 3.7%. EBITDA grew to SEK 85 million, corresponding to a margin of 7.7%. The improvement is driven by operational performance, combined with quarterly fluctuations.



Okay, on to the cash generation in the quarter. In Q2, cash flow from operations amounted to SEK 158 million compared to SEK 225 million same quarter last year. The change is partly explained by somewhat lower EBITDA, combined with an increased change in net working capital. In the end of the quarter, the billing increased and we tied up some cash in accounts receivables.



As a result of our lower acquisition pace over the last few quarters, we have lower outflow from those activities. But only 2 days ago, we were happy to welcome a new member in the Instalco team. IT-Line Service, which strengthens our industrial offering in Finland. The company based in Salo near Turku, primarily service customers in the mechanical industry.



As usual, Q2 marks our yearly dividend payment, which this year added up to SEK 179 million. The quarter also saw some outflow from earn-outs and acquisition of non-controlling items, all in all, according to plan.



In operational performance, I'm pleased to say that we improved the cash conversion to 89% from 81%, which is the result of diligent focus on working capital and cash flow in our subsidiaries.



To -- now look at our performance in relation to our financial targets. For the duration of the 10 years Instalco has existed, we have constantly performed well beyond our growth target, which is set over a business cycle. This quarter, the growth is not at 10%, and this is no surprising given the market climate and our cautious acquisition pace during the latest months. But we are well positioned to capture opportunities for profitable growth when the market turns.



Our EBITDA come in to 7.2% or 7.4% for the last 12 months, still a strong performance given the current market. Cash conversion improved to 89% due to high focus on working capital. During the quarter, we paid out the dividend approved at our AGM in line with the 30% policy.



After the second quarter, our leverage temporarily came in just slightly above our target at 2.6x EBITDA, and this was the result of slightly lower earnings and largest outflow of money as expected in the second quarter. All in all, a stable earnings development given the market situation, and we remain secure with our balance sheet and operational priorities.



By that, over to you again, Robin.

[Robin Boheman, executive]

Thank you very much. And now to the project highlight of the quarter. Over the past years, everyone has been talking about the sharp decline in new built residential projects and while that is certainly true and definitely noticeable, this order highlights that the market is not completely dead. Four Instalco companies have been awarded the contract for installations at the new landmark project, Docks in Malmo, which is a new build of 160 apartments. The installation for Instalco are multi-disciplinary and includes electrical, heating and plumbing, ventilation and sprinkler.



The following Instalco companies will be involved, ElPågarna, Rörläggaren, Bi-Vent and

Sprinklerbolaget. In total, this adds up to a combined order volume or value for Instalco of around SEK 100 million, something I'm very happy to see and especially in the southern part of Sweden, so well done team.



Going into the theme of this quarter. This quarter theme will be a small deep dive into something very excited that we announced during Q2. The launch of our new brand and also business area Inmatiq.

So I will talk a little bit regarding what it is, how it fits into the rest of Instalco and how we will do it.



Inmatiq is something new, a fast-moving company that is not stuck in any old systems. Their offering includes both property and process automation, utilizing the local market products and thereby selling both consultancies as well as hands-on installations and market support, aftermarket support as well.



Organizational wise, we are broadening our division technical consultants to now include 2 business areas. And to make things easier, we have named these 2 business areas after the main brands that they will use. So it's Intec and also Inmatiq.



But let's get back to basics. Inmatiq offers automation and what do we include in automation definition. Automation in this context of buildings and installation services refers to the use of technology to control and monitor systems such as lighting, heating, ventilation, security, water management for some examples. It involves integrating sensors, control and software to automatically adjust operations based on preset parameters, real-time data and use of preferences.



This enhances and makes it easier to do energy efficiency, but also comfort, safety and overall system performance, and it also reduces the need for manual intervention. Common examples of this is smart thermostats, automated lighting, and building management systems that centralize control of multiple systems, for example.



We believe that the automation fits very well into Instalco's overall portfolio of services that we offer to our customers for several reasons. By adding automation to our more traditional installation services, we can help clients to save energy, reduce cost and improve overall efficiency and safety of their buildings in multiple focus on energy efficiency and automation, in facility and process areas for these customers automation is a prerequisite for efficiency and sustainable operations. Delivering advanced future-proof solutions in line with increased demand for digitalization and resource savings measures from buildings, industries and facilities.



Furthermore, it also gives us an even better insights into the real needs of our customers and also enables us to act more proactively and strengthen customer relationships throughout the life plan of the facility or property, not just in a few touch points such as when you build or refurbish or sometimes service them.



And how will we do this then? Our venture within Intec, where we now today have over 400 consultants in 3 countries has been very successful. Already last quarter, we mentioned that they reported margins over the group average, and that is also true for Q2. Intec was built mainly organically through Instalco start-up model. And this enterprise is also how we will do it when it comes to Inmatiq. So it's been done the same way and also, obviously, with all the learnings that we took with from Intec.



Our first Inmatiq establishment was in Sundsvall, but we have now expanded rapidly just over the past couple of months, and we are far -- we have far more to do. On this map, you see that Stockholm is red since that will be launched in September. The map also includes a location where Instalco already had a company doing a lot of automation services before that is now part of the business area. So in total, we are now around 60 people, and that is from 0 just in a few months.



This sums up the start of Inmatiq and I'm really looking forward to touching upon this subject again in the future.



But let's get back to the Q2 report and sum up with some key takeaways from the quarter. There's no surprise that we are facing a challenging market, as you heard today and before also. We are delivering on the projects taken during a more pressured circumstances. I'm not satisfied, but I'm proud to say that we are doing what we can. We are carefully selecting the projects. We maintain focus on margins over volume and that has paid off with a relatively stable development, and we continue to be best-in-class when it comes to margins.



Operationally, we have kept very busy. Inmatiq has been long in the works, and automation is a new exciting addition to our expanding service offers, as you heard before, now there is many different ways to grow, and we have a successful track record in showcasing that our start-up concept really works.



And finally, we are now starting to see some positive signs in the market, one that I mentioned before in this call and Christina as well is the demand for technical consultants. But while technical consultants are positioned early in the cycle, the majority of our installation services are late cyclical. So this means it will take some time until we might see the changes in our numbers. But we are more than ready to grab the opportunity we see once the market turns.



And I also like to conclude with that every day, we're a little bit closer to that today. And with that, I will thank you for joining this call, and we will open up for some questions.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Karl Bokvist from ABG Sundal Collier.

[Karl Bokvist, analyst]

Thank you. My first one is on the Nordics, strong profitability here. I was just curious to hear about the drivers here, if there is any particular region behind it or a combination of the two?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

I mean we have talked about the Nordics for quite some time, and we have said that we are trying to improve profitability in the Nordics. We have, over the year, downsized a little bit and worked with profitability. That work continues, and we are seeing some positive signs, and we're also seeing good trends. However, the margin that was in this quarter, I would not focus too much on that specific margin this quarter. I mean we are a project-based company. So unfortunately, we cannot expect that kind of margin always going forward. But we see some positive trends and good work has been done in these regions over the last couple of years. But it was a really, really good quarter for them. And that happens from time to time when it comes to projects and quarters.

[Karl Bokvist, analyst]

Understood. And on that topic, but on the opposite side, perhaps if we put it that way, in Sweden, where the margin is down and adjusting for the credit provision last year, it's down from, well, almost 9%. So any particular effects in Sweden that weighs on the margin?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

It is a little bit the same answer as before, but the opposite basically when it comes -- I mean, it is one quarter. We -- I wouldn't put too much emphasis on neither the Nordics or the Swedish margin for 1 quarter. Obviously, this quarter for Sweden, they have also taken the cost for this Inmatiq investment. That would be one of the things, specifically, I mean, hiring 60 FTEs and so forth. But I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the difference in these segments in one quarter.

[Karl Bokvist, analyst]

Understood. And my final one is just usually, when we look at seasonality in your business, we tend to see a lower margin in Q3 compared to Q2 and then a better margin in Q4 again. Any reason why this shouldn't be the case this year?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

I think, I mean, seasonality, like you said, I mean, historically, it's been that type of seasonality. And yes, I see no big difference. I mean the years look the same, the dates are the same. So I would say that that's a good assumption. But it comes down, like I said, once again, we are a project-driven business so it comes down a lot to when projects are finalized, started and which project we work on during the quarter. But obviously, looking at the history will give you some indications of where we're going.

[Karl Bokvist, analyst]

Understood, thank you.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Johan Dahl from Danske Bank.

[Johan Dahl, analyst]

Just a few questions. Firstly, on -- Robin, you talked about invoicing reflecting orders taken in H2. Would you say that the current invoicing and current profitability fully sort of reflects the weakening market conditions? Or are you still anticipating certain contracts taken prior to that period, which will impact profitability negatively?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

I mean, like I said, we will be living with the projects that we have taken in H2 last year and also obviously, in the beginning of last year as well. And we have to finalize those, and that's what I also mean that we are late cyclical. They were taken at a tougher, so to say, price point than maybe those projects that were taken '21, '22. So we have to live with that. That's also why we launched last quarter, this, so to say, savings program, which are also to make sure that we, so to say, downsize in some areas and in some daughter companies as well to fit the market situation that we are in today.



So we will obviously be affected going forward as well, but we try to do everything we can to protect the margin. We have shifted our focus into -- like Christina mentioned earlier, more service, shorter projects. We tend to steer away from these really large projects. We don't want to be stuck for a too long time going forward in projects taken now.

[Johan Dahl, analyst]

All right. Also, there seems to be a fairly big shift from sort of subconsultants to your own sort of staff own employees compared to last year. Does that sort of impact the reported numbers in any particular way that we should be aware of sort of in understanding the numbers that you deliver?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

So if I understand the question, it is correct that we tend to not use so much subcontractors anymore due to that. And that's -- that has to do with that volumes are down overall. So we don't need -- I mean, these subcontracts that we use are taken to be able to, so to say, work in the peaks. And obviously, now we're not in a peak. So we will tend to not rent so many people in. The reason for that and how it affects is basically -- we tend to be more profitable on our own staff. But on the other hand, renting, and so to say, obviously helps dividing the overhead costs on more FTEs or more employees in that sense. So yes, it affects our profitability a bit, but tendency is that own staff are more profitable.

[Johan Dahl, analyst]

Got you. Final one, just on the contracting order book. You talked about big chunks being allocated to large construction companies. Does that mean that the duration of the order book is sort of longer or more extended in time? Or is it similar to what has been previously in Instalco?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

For -- I think for the order backlog of our construction companies, it's best to talk with them. What we can see from the outside is that there are -- they have taken a lot of orders, some more focused on the infrastructure, but also infrastructure projects tend to lead to normal installation projects as well. So I'm guessing they will try to keep a healthy mix on their side as well. So… talk about duration of their projects.

[Johan Dahl, analyst]

Good, good. Thank you.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Johan Lönnqvist Sundén from Carnegie.

[Johan Sundén, analyst]

A couple from my side. The first one is on details in the cash flow related to minority buyouts. Is it possible to give some comment how that kind of profile looks ahead of us? Do we have more minority interest to be bought out in the coming quarters? How should we think about that?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

I mean the way it is done is that we have with the start-up model and a few of the companies that we acquired, we try to limit risk a bit and maybe not buy the whole company day 1. So where we go in to sort of say, joint venture, we buy maybe 70% and additional 30% is bought at a later time. And these are options that we have and this option are executed during certain time periods. And in Q2, it was such a time period where we saw a good possibility to utilize those options and be able to buy these minorities at a, so to say, better priced than we could buy new companies for us. So then that's why we executed these options as well.



So it's hard to say exactly because different companies have different time slots of the options where we can execute. But I think on top of my head, Q2 is a typical one because you have finalized the annual report in Q1 for most companies, and then there is a discussion on -- whether we want to execute the option or not.

[Johan Sundén, analyst]

So basically, no more this fall at least?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

On top of my head, we don't have any big ones in the fall. But like I said, these options are run typically in the 6 months period where we can execute the options or not. And on top of my head, we don't have any big ones, at least in Q3.

[Johan Sundén, analyst]

Excellent. And then 2 questions on kind of the top line trends. And in relation to the Q1 report, can you give some color on how you have made layoffs and cut down on subcontractors, etc.? Is it possible to give some comments how that has developed during the summer where the kind of run rate or compared to maybe a year ago?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

Yes, absolutely. I mean this is an ongoing project. As you all know, it takes a little bit of time to execute, but we have executed a lot of the points. We are, I would say, on target. We continuously adapt the cost structure of subsidiaries where we see it necessary based on like market outlooks, as I explained before. But we also have areas where we are actually increasing the num – [ grow of FTEs ]. For instance, Inmatiq, Intec, but we're also looking over our whole cost base in some subsidiaries. So it's a lot of market driven. Like I said, we are decentralized companies. We look at the local market, outlook and take decisions accordingly.

[Johan Sundén, analyst]

Great. And then on the kind of comment you had on the kind of potential and gradual recovery that is anticipated and that it's hard to predict when it will happen. Is it fair to assume, given the comment that it should have materialized during the fall at least because now we're quite more into Q3?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

That is a good assumption.

[Johan Sundén, analyst]

And discussions with clients, are it more like before sum or is it even after the sum of '25 for the volume pickup to really materialize for your side?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

It's very hard to say like the question beforehand here regarding the order backlog of our customers. It obviously depends on which of these orders, we are able to win, which we want to win, which we win, so to say. So it's very hard to say when this happens. The only thing that we can see is that the order backlog is increasing on our customers, which if everything stays normal, would then generate more projects for us. We're also seeing a, so to say, a better interest rate environment going forward, which is positive for the construction industry overall.



We are also seeing that technical consultants have more to draw and more to calculate, which tends to lean or mean -- it's at least an indicator that projects are coming. But then it's also up to which one do we win and which one do we want to win. And we also have to see that the price is correct as well on these projects.

[Johan Sundén, analyst]

Just one final, if I may, on the M&A market. How would you describe the competitive environment? I noticed that there are quite some financially sponsored competitors too out there, making quite a lot of acquisitions.

[Robin Boheman, executive]

My guess is that [indiscernible] are also on the way to list. So I'll leave it at that. So I think that there are some aggressive companies out there doing a lot of acquisitions in a market like this. And my guess is also that there are on the way to selling their business or listing their business.

[Johan Sundén, analyst]

Would you say that given your focus on buying best in class businesses, is it tough? I guess it should be a bit tougher when the kind of competition is higher? Or...

[Robin Boheman, executive]

Yes. But we saw a similar thing happening a few years ago. Also, if you remember the calls as well, we had some competitors that were just listed and they were quite aggressive, and we all know how that turned out. So I mean, we focus on our view. We focus on the companies that we want to take into the business that we believe has the capacity of delivering in an environment like Instalco, where we think that the culture is fitting, we see that the price is correct, and then we will be doing those acquisitions.



And we are very open to do acquisitions, but we have basically not seen these companies the last couple of months. Instead, we are focused on growing in other areas like Inmatiq, Intec. Intec has started a new company in Finland, a new company in Norway. I think it is 2 companies now in Sweden. So we are focused on other areas. And like you saw in the presentation today, I think we have 6 subsidiaries now in Inmatiq as well and more coming as well. So I think there are different ways of growing. And in this market environment, we more focus on these start-ups than acquiring companies.

[Johan Sundén, analyst]

Excellent. Thanks a lot for your answers.

[Robin Boheman, executive]

Thank you.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Karl Norén from SEB.

[Karl Norén, analyst]

Yes, hello. Couple of questions from my side. Firstly, is on the service revenue side. I notice it was a quite big drop in Sweden compared to last quarter. Just wondering if there was something specific in the year-over-year sales. I think service was down 6%, while if I remember correctly that grew in Sweden in the first quarter.

[Robin Boheman, executive]

Like it's a little bit the same when it comes to projects that to look at one quarter is a very short period of time in a market -- or like in a company like ours, I don't know if you have anything you want to...

[Christina Kassberg, executive]

Minor quarter [indiscernible] I would say.

[Karl Norén, analyst]

Okay. So it's nothing that we should...

[Robin Boheman, executive]

It's nothing that… Yes, it's nothing that we have seen or anything that we can basically comment on regarding that we see a trend or anything like that.

[Karl Norén, analyst]

Okay, that's clear. And then I just have one question here on the order or the orders you've taken now basically. Would you say that the margins in the orders you're taking right now are at similar levels as the ones that you're now producing on taking in H2 last year?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

I would say we have a similar price indications as last year. And as we have said before, it's one thing with the price. Now it's all about being efficient in the projects as well to sort of get the payment that we anticipate when we take the project as well. But price levels, I would say, are similar.

[Karl Norén, analyst]

Okay. That's all for me. Thank you, and have a good day.

[Robin Boheman, executive]

Thank you very much.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Karl Bokvist from ABG Sundal Collier.

[Karl Bokvist, analyst]

Just 2 follow-ups here. On -- first, on the Intec and Inmatiq, one being now up and running and one being the next project to start up, so to say. Just curious, how many people roughly are you now in Intec? And do you have any kind of goal how big Inmatiq should be in, say, 3 years?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

So first of all, Intec is roughly 400 technical consultants in 3 countries. And Inmatiq is now 60 FTEs in Sweden at the moment. We will do the same since it was quite successful in Intec's case that we will not reveal exactly our plans for Inmatiq and how we will grow. But this is obviously something that we put a lot of emphasis on and put a lot of time on, and we worked hard to make this happen. And so obviously, this is -- when Instalco does something, we do it for real. So we will continue to grow the business, but we don't give out exact numbers of what our goal is at this time.

[Karl Bokvist, analyst]

Understood. Then a question for Christina. One first on capital expenditures. Do you foresee a need or ambition to continue to step up the intangible CapEx as well as the tangible CapEx, if we look at it on a kind of annual basis?

[Christina Kassberg, executive]

The intangible assets in Instalco as you already are aware of is most connected to our acquisitions and the tangible more connected with our industrial business and industrial installation business. So when it comes to -- this follows, of course, our operational performance and our priorities when it comes to investments in these 2 different areas because they are very different, actually.

[Karl Bokvist, analyst]

Understood. And then on working capital and payment conditions and so on, has that aspect also become more difficult in this market if we look ahead in terms of working capital buildup or releases?

[Christina Kassberg, executive]

I think we have been on this topic earlier. Working capital is -- it's hard work. And we have and continue to have a diligent focus on it. We had a stronger cash conversion this quarter. But nevertheless, in the working cap, if we had a dip, but it's deep from the invoice when it comes to tying up some money in accounts receivables at the end of the quarter. So we are not worried about it, but it's hard work, and we will continue with it. And of course, it shifts a little bit quarter-to-quarter and month-to-month.

[Karl Bokvist, analyst]

Understood. That's all from my side. Thank you.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Johan Lönnqvist Sundén from Carnegie..

[Johan Sundén, analyst]

Just one follow-up from my side on Intec, where you mentioned that there was a strong quarter for that part of your business. Is it possible to give some color on the kind of comparison during the fall for Intec? Because you said, if I remember correctly, that you have seen a gradual improvement in that business [indiscernible] Q1 numbers. Just curious to see if there's a tough or easy comparison for that business in the fall?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

So compared -- just so I understand. So you mean comparison numbers from '23. So yes, they have some easy, but they have some not too tough numbers, let's say it like that, not too tough numbers to beat in the fall to be better than last year. Let's say it like that.

[Johan Sundén, analyst]

Were Intec profit breakeven in H2 last year already?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

Now you're into -- maybe breakeven or slightly below --unfortunately, a little bit too much detail to have on top of my head on all the business areas. But I would say that they broke even and started making money mainly in Q1 last year, but they were not too bad in the end of the 4 [ leaders ] -- that's on top of my head.

[Johan Sundén, analyst]

Yes. Excellent. That was all for me.

[Operator]

There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions and closing comments.

[Unknown Analyst]

We do have some written questions. To start with, when will the EBITDA margins in the Swedish market recover and what actions are needed to reach 8% EBITDA margin?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

I would say that the actions to reach the 8% are the actions that we are taking. Like I said before, we are proud of the work that we've done and the work that are done by our 6,200 employees. Obviously, we need some help in getting market back on track basically. And we will be definitely back on our target. When it comes to Sweden, I mean one quarter is too short of a time period to talk about in this type of business where we deliver projects. We are running 6,000 projects at the moment. So I think that it is a little bit too short time period to talk about that something has happened in Sweden.

[Unknown Analyst]

And the final written question. Any forecast when you will start to see organic growth again?

[Robin Boheman, executive]

No. As mentioned before, we are seeing some positive trends we are late in the cycle, and I think that we'll leave it at that. And like I said, every day that every new day, we're a little bit closer to a good and better market.



So I think we will sum it all up there. And thank you all for the good questions, and thank you for listening in, and have a nice day, everyone.