Hemnet Group AB (publ)

STO:HEM

Earnings Call Transcript 2022-Q3

[Operator]

Welcome to the Hemnet Q3 2022 Report. Today, I am pleased to present the CEO, Cecilia Beck-Friis and the CFO, Jens Melin. [Operator Instructions] Speakers, please begin.

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

Good morning, and welcome to the presentation of Hemnet Group's results for the third quarter of 2022. My name is Cecilia Beck-Friis and I am joined today by our interim CFO, Jens Melinn; and IR Manager, Nick Lundvall, who will assist in presenting an operational and financial update of the quarter. As usual, we will finish with a Q&A. Let's start with the highlights on Page 4. This is another strong quarter for Hemnet with 22% growth in net sales and an adjusted EBITDA margin of 53.8%, all while returning over SEK 300 million year-to-date to our shareholders through dividends and buybacks. We continue to see strong demand for our value-added services and are pleased that customers are seeing the benefits of opting into our larger packages plus in premium. In fact, over 40% of ARPL growth in Q3 was driven by growth in value-added services.

Revenue from business partners and other customers grew 9%, excluding items affecting comparability and increasing growth from the previous quarter as we see agents increasing their investments into Hemnet. Net sales from real estate agents alone grew 19% in the quarter. Overall, a great financial outcome for Hemnet in Q3. I, of course, also want to address the housing market. The current climate is defined by an increased degree of uncertainty, both for transactions and sale price. However, we have some limited impact from this in our business and financial results for Q3.

There were 52,000 listings on Hemnet during Q3, which is in line with the high numbers that we saw last year. The total number of listings on Hemnet, therefore, remains high as we continue to see a buyer's market with lower property selling prices and longer sales cycles. I want to remind you that we are paid on each published listing and not each completed listing, and we are therefore well positioned for a market even where buyers and sellers are finding it harder to come to an agreement.

Here is a new statistic that I want to share with you as well in a comparison to the second largest property portal in Sweden, we saw that a listing on Hemnet averaged 19x more visits. This market leadership means that we offer the best conditions and products to help our sellers increase their chances of selling a home and agents finding their next seller. Despite the uncertainty that currently exists in the market, I remain confident of the strength of Hemnet's platform as the #1 choice for homebuyers, sellers and real estate engines.

We will continue to innovate and invest in increased revenue per listing and to improve our offering to our customers. Turning now to Page 6 for a business and market update. From a listings perspective, this was another good quarter for Hemnet. Q3 listings are slightly above the high levels of last year, as you can see on the left. On the right, you will note that the growth has returned to a more normal pace than in the 2 previous quarters that were both in excess of the average annual growth of 2% that we see in the longer term. Zooming out and now turning to Page 7 to speak about the property market at the glass.

Despite the solid performance in new listings, I think it is fair to say that Q3 was an unusual quarter on the property market with higher uncertainty and discrepancy between buyer and seller expectations. This is not the first time in recent history that we see a pattern like this. We have previously seen a similar market each time there was a mandatory amortization amendment in 2016 and 2018 and also during the onset of the pandemic in 2020. In a market like the one we are in, it can have its benefits and challenges to a property portal.

On one hand, it is, of course, slower and more unpredictable. But on the other hand, this market might also drive more Swedes to review the living situation, which could have a positive impact on listing volumes. I have said this before, but I think it is worth repeating. We operate in an exceptionally stable property market. The housing market does indeed fluctuate by quarter. But in the longer term, we see a 2% growth with the largest observed drop in listings at 5% during the year when Swedes were forced to amortize their mortgages for the first time.

Turning now to Page 8 to talk about house prices and price expectations. Despite healthy listing volumes, we can see that it is taking longer to sell an apartment and that the bidding premium over asking price is at 0. We are also seeing low price expectations when looking ahead. What is interesting is that we continue seeing an uplift in asking price, which grew 6.2% year-on-year. This is evident on what we told you during Q2 that sellers will mitigate some of the expected price decrease in sell price by raising the asking price. We are now in a market where acceptance price is again used and it is exceptionally difficult to sell off market. Ultimately, the price premium has decreased more than what the asking price has increased.

So the final price is lower, but the portion on which we build the price of our products has increased. Now turning to Page 9 to give an update on how we are holding up to the key challenges of the current property market. Firstly, about the potential decline in transaction volumes. Transaction volumes are indeed down 11% compared with 2021. Worth noting is that 2021 was an exceptionally hot year in the property market and the transactions are actually in line with 2020, which was a more normal year in that regard. However, with our paid-on listings, not transactions and listings are up 2% year-to-date and hold firm in Q3. Also worth remembering is that transactions are and listings are not perfectly correlated.

Secondly, on how buyers market affects us. It is becoming more difficult for sellers and buyers to meet at an accepted price, which has resulted in a somewhat slower property market. I remind you that the Swedish property market is still among the most efficient in the world when it comes to time and cost to sell a house. Q3 asking price was, in fact, up 6%, while the sale premium is now 0. This suggests that the sellers are making some compromises on price to secure a transaction. Hemnet is in a great position to help sellers find the largest number of potential buyers for your property. In fact, I mentioned earlier that we provide 19x more views per property than the second largest platform in Sweden, meaning that sellers wanting to maximize their price are in the right place when listing on Hemnet.

Thirdly, on how a decrease in the property price may impact our revenue potential. What we have said is that this market is driving sellers to invest more in value-added services. And through a combination of conversion pricing, ARPL is up 29%. Finally, on higher interest rates, does have a minuscule impact on Hemnet due to our low leverage so overall, I would say good about how we are holding up in this market. Moving out to Page 10 and ARPL, which was up almost 29% in Q3. This is driven by a strong demand for our value-added services, Hemnet plus and Hemnet premium. We have seen a slight impact on conversion growth due to new listing distribution with proportionally few new listings in the major cities, but we have the tools and headroom to continue working with increasing ARPL in line with our strategy. We are currently working with a purchasing flow specifically how we can better communicate the benefit of each package to sellers. We are also reviewing more flexible ways to pay for a listing.

Turning now to Page 11 to give you some product updates. During Q3, we will always be impacted by the fact that 2 months are summer months, and therefore, new product output tends to be lower than in other quarters. This quarter is not an exception, and the team has worked on developing and improving our existing product portfolio to a greater extent than rolling out new products. One product that I am happy to announce is the new My Home feature in our apps, where the majority of our traffic comes from.

The new My Home view gives users a more personalized Hemnet experience and deepens our relationship with the users. Through this new product, users get the customized home screen valuation estimates that is now rolled out nationwide, sales time expectations and a new fit for relevant properties, all in line with our consumer strategy to increase customer engagement throughout the entire property life cycle rather than just the buying and selling portion of the journey.

Now on to Page 12, where we talk about business partners. We continue tailoring our business-to-business offering with products that leverage our unique market position. From agents, we continue seeing strong demand for ended products. Jen will give more color on that this later. Here, we are working with increasing awareness and traffic to the products that connect sellers and brokers. We're also preparing for the launch of Mäklartipset in Q4, which is a value-added service for agent.

Property developers are seeing a challenging market as can be seen in their investments in our platform. Nonetheless, we have added new renew listing product to all products units to allow developers more changes to sell their inventory. We are also working on a facelift for our product pages as well as a review of the business model for this product to make it more in line with the value that developers are receiving.

Let's now turn to Page 13 and talk about our investments in talent. I have previously flagged that recruitment remains a challenge post the pandemic. Here, we have a net addition of 3 employees quarter-on-quarter and continue to supplement this with consultants. This investment is predominantly within product development and the mix of developers and manager roles to allow our organization to scale. Where we are unable to fill such roles with FDs, we will turn to consultants as an interim solution. On the topic of Sherman and slower recruitment, these are both ongoing and we have filled both positions with strong interim solutions while we look for the right candidates to fill the role in the longer term.

And finally, from -- turning to Page 14 and a brief update on our brand campaign. The campaign was launched in Q3 in our internal channels as well as TV4, the main linear TV channel in Sweden. The campaign is the first of its kind for Hemnet for many, many years. This is more than an advertising campaign. It is a brand campaign that defines how we want the market and our users to pursue Hemnet and will build the business for our future communications. We intend to invest in marketing in an efficient way to remind users that Hemnet is the #1 destination for buyers and sellers of housing in Sweden. I encourage you all to take a look at the video for which there is a link at the bottom of this page.

And with that, I turn to Jens to give a financial update. Jens?

[Jens Melin, executive]

Thank you, Cecilia. Let's turn to Page 16 and the financial highlights for Q3. This is yet another strong quarter for Hemnet, where we see significant growth in both net sales and EBITDA. Starting off on the left-hand side, we have a net sales increasing 22%, continuing our strong growth during the year. Our adjusted EBITDA came in at SEK 128.5 million, up 26% from last year. It could be worth noting that we don't have any adjustments to EBITDA for 2022. And in the historical periods, the vast majority of adjustments are IPO-related costs.

The adjusted EBITDA margin came in at 53.8%, up 1.6 percentage points from last year. It can be noted that margin levels in the second and third quarters have historically been our strongest as market activity is high. Moving then to the right-hand side, we saw ARPL increasing 29%. Cecilia talked about the drivers for this earlier on Page 10, which were a combination of product updates, conversion to our value-added services, and price adjustments across all seller products.

As expected, we continue to see a high cash conversion, which was 104% in the quarter. This was more or less the same result as in previous quarters this year and follows that we have a favorable working capital dynamic as we grow our seller revenues. Leverage came in at 0.4x rolling 12 months adjusted EBITDA, which is a slight increase in leverage compared to Q2. This, since we have continued to return capital to shareholders via our share buyback program, and I will come back to that topic in a few slides.

Now turning to Page 17 to look at net sales by customer category. Revenue from property sellers continues to be the main growth driver and is up 29% in the quarter. This is mainly due to increased ARPL, which also grew 29%. It is also encouraging that we continue to see the positive development for our business customer groups with a combined growth of 6% in the quarter.

Adjusting for SEK 2 million of items affecting comparability last year, the underlying growth is actually 9%. And -- in this group, we continue to have a strong demand from real estate agents, where we had a 19% growth in the quarter. We have seen strong sales to agents previously in the year, and this trend continued also in Q3, where we have had a high demand for both our value-adding broker products and traditional display.

Moving to the last 2 categories, developers and advertisers. The slight declines are mainly due to slightly lower display revenue. However, looking at display revenue across the business customer groups, the combined revenue shows an increase of 7% compared to last year. We have had a couple of quarters with tougher comps for traffic due to the inflated numbers during COVID. Traffic levels have stabilized somewhat during the year. But for Q3, it is still a significant drop compared to last year's numbers. Despite this, we are generating higher display revenue, which is the strength for our business. So in summary, I would say that our business customer portfolio is working well, delivering growth even with tougher comps on traffic. Let's move to our adjusted EBITDA bridge on Page 18.

We are a growing company with an operating leverage in our business model. This leads us to moving from SEK 102.3 million in 2021 to SEK 128.5 million in 2022. We have covered the drivers for the SEK 44.8 million growth in revenue. So let's instead look at the cost side. The compensation to real estate agents continues to grow at a similar pace to our seller revenue, up 28% from last year. As a proportion of seller revenue, this meant that the compensation was just below 29% for the quarter. Other external expenses, excluding compensation to agents is up SEK 8.9 million.

This mainly as we have taken in consultants to temporarily fill some roles while we are doing permanent recruitments. Personnel costs have increased by SEK 0.5 million as we have increased the organization since Q3 last year, but not to the extent that we would have liked. This following the challenges we have seen with recruitment. Also, in Q3 last year, we had a one-time effect of SEK 4.3 million. So excluding this, personnel costs are up SEK 4.8 million.

Turning now to Page 19 and our cash and leverage position. We talked about our cash-generative business model and that the cash conversion was 104% in the quarter. One factor contributing to this is that when we grow our seller revenue, we tend to see a positive development for working capital. This, as we have to wait until after each quarter end to sum up and pay out the compensation to real estate agents, while seller revenue is, of course, paid continuously.

Our strong cash conversion has led to a decreasing leverage position over time. For Q3, we instead see a slight increase in leverage, which is in line with what we have communicated in previous calls, namely that our dividend and buyback program should stabilize leverage over time. Our net debt was SEK 175 million, and our cash and cash equivalents amounted to SEK 124 million at the end of Q3.

Moving then to Page 20 and a few additional words on the buyback program. As previously communicated, we are targeting total share buybacks of SEK 450 million up until the next AGM. On Monday this week, we had totaled SEK 261 million in buybacks during the year, so adding another SEK 23 million since the end of the quarter. This leaves us with a bit less than SEK 200 million left to buy. Our goal is to keep a steady pace up until the next AGM.

This is subject, of course, to any variations in trading volumes as we have structured the program to meet the safe harbor regulations. During the quarter, our buybacks have been slightly ahead of plan for a steady pace during the year. This is due to the trading by our third-party service provider as the buybacks are made at a harmed basis and not an active decision by Hemnet. With this, we are following our dividend policy to distribute excess cash back to shareholders.

Before handing back to Cecilia to wrap things up. This final slide in this section is our financial targets on Page 21. Our growth rate measured as an LTM value is now at 25%. Our profitability came in above our target range of 45% to 50% for the second consecutive quarter, leading to a 51% LTM-adjusted EBITDA margin. Leverage was 0.4x as previously mentioned. And as we have said before, the management team is really looking to meet or exceed these targets. Also, as an additional comment on the targets, we want to refer back to what our Chair of the Board said during the AGM this year, which was that the Board will be reviewing the financial targets ahead of the next AGM.

So that concludes my section here today. Over to you, Cecilia.

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

Thank you, Jens. So this was yet another quarter where we demonstrated our exceptional business and the result is a growth in excess of our financial targets for both net sales and profitability. This, despite a more challenging property market with longer sales times, lower sales price, but with a high inflow of new listings, all a testament to the scalable and stable business model that Hemnet enjoys. I am happy to see the continued demand for an investment into our products for our core customer groups, sellers and real estate agents, and we continue making our products more effective and attractive.

And with that, let us move on to the Q&A.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions]. Our first question comes from the line of Giles Thorne of Jefferies.

[Giles Thorne, analyst]

My first question was on average revenue per listing. If I remember correctly, in Q2, you put a free ad renewal into the premium tranche of the package structure, which turns out to be really good timing given that was exactly when sales need to extend. So I'll be interested for -- to hear any quantification of that path to ARPL growth in the third quarter? And then perhaps more importantly, how it could impact ARPL growth into 2023. My second question is picking up on the launch of My Home, and then we've had a follow-up product launch value indicator. So you're really building product momentum around the theme of turning Hemnet for a pay-for-people state for a new property to a place where consumers can engage across the entire property life cycle.

So as we move into 2023, is it fair to assume more product launches and then associated products and technology investment? Any color on what you're intending to do and how that links to your margin guidance would be very useful. And then my final question is linked to that, which is, yes, you're out there with the new brand awareness marine you want to reeducate all about. Obviously tied to the product cycle you're building. So I'd just be interested to know what more marketing campaigns we can expect next year and the end you'll be making there? Quite a lot there. I'm sorry about that, but hopefully, that…

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

No problem. Good questions. So we had 3 different things. So on the first, on the premium and the added feature of full renewal, I think it was a good timing on that, and that is also managed choice when we try to follow the market as we go in the product development, and that was a clear choice for us to prioritize that change in that product. And what we'll cancel we don't talk -- I mean we don't say anything about the conversion. We don't convey that. But what we can say is that, that has worked very well and that we've seen an uptick in demand for that product. So it has exceeded the expectations for premium. I could say, I can say. So -- and I think also we asked how that will continue into 2023.

I think the key thing here for us is to make sure that we'll continue being relevant to our partners and adding value. And this is, of course, an ongoing theme for a discussion internally, how we can prioritize and make sure that we'll improve and develop the products. So that will be an ongoing thing I guess, also for the next year, making sure that we have the best products out there. So on the second part on My Home and the momentum that, that use will see as well in engaging with the consumer throughout their property life. Yes, I think that will -- I mean, we also see momentum here, and we're very happy with the improvement and development that we had during Q3 in this area. We will continue, and we have also communicated our 3-pillar strategy, and we'll continue to invest in product development and in the momentum both for consumers.

That is both the engagement part and the logged-in in My Home future on the seller part, like I said previously, making sure that we have the best possible products and also continue working with pricing. And for the business customer, the third pillar to make sure that we will transform and grow and broaden our product portfolio with more Hemnet unique advertisement. And we don't see anything that would change that direction. It's more about timing, I would say, and more making sure that the product roadmap will have is relevant in the current market. But we'll continue doing that.

And that, of course -- and then I think that we are very well positioned in the business model but also building a profitable growth company. And we'll -- I have a very -- I mean, I'm super confident in the Hemnet's ability to grow over time. It is harder to have a short-term visibility in this market. I can see the scenario here also that the volumes, for example, could decrease during the next coming quarters, but I could also select the opposite that people actually need to and want to sell. So you could see 2 different scenarios playing out, and that is, of course, hard. But I feel confident that we should continue to invest in the product momentum and calibrate that.

On the third question on brand awareness and the marketing. So yes, we have done an investment in setting the new brand platform, and we've launched the first campaign. We plan to continue doing marketing. And I think as we grow, it is important to continue having a certain amount that we actually invest in marketing. But of course, we want to do that in a scalable way and an efficient way and again, also following and making sure that we do the right investments. I hope that answered those 3.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from the line of Pete Kujala of Morgan Stanley.

[Pete-Veikko Kujala, analyst]

It's Pete from Morgan Stanley. Maybe continuing on first, the brand campaign. So can you give us some insight into what type of cost was included in Q3? And should this change for the coming quarters because it's not like completely obvious to me where the cost is relating to these brand campaigns?

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

I can start off and maybe Nick can give some more color to this. So yes, I mean, the investments that we've done is the long-term investment in the brand, and that will play out in different ways. The first step in the components the brand awareness or reinforcing the brand position. And then we will use also the brand platform in more tactical marketing and sales activities over the years. So that is the long-term goal and in. And Nick, I don't know if you want to put some more colors on them.

[Nick Lundvall, executive]

Yes. With regards to the magnitude of the expense, I think what we can say is that this falls in under other external costs and is among the largest items in this group, along with our consultant expenses. But this is not something that we give a specific number on. It is something that we feel false comfortable in our margin guidance.

[Pete-Veikko Kujala, analyst]

Okay. Yes. Great. And on personnel, you're now 10% above last year's level in Q3. So you have more employees now, but personnel expenses were pretty much flat year-over-year. So is there something that I need to understand better in terms of the employee cost base? Or is there some seasonality in wages or bonuses, et cetera?

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

Yes. So I can start first and then I'll also hand over to Nick to give some more color on the variation of the quarter-over-quarter. So I think we have also communicated this that, I mean, we -- we're not really actually happy with the recruitment tens during Q2 and Q3, given the high ambition we have and the ambition of investing in the product development, I think the past has been a bit slower during this quarter, and that has to do with an effect after the pandemic that we had a higher turnover internally. I think that will stabilize going forward. So that is that context answer. And then, Nick.

[Nick Lundvall, executive]

With regards to the cyclicality of the cost, what we see is that during Q1 and Q2, we actually accrue some vacation debt to our employees. And then during Q3, as employees take vacation, that then becomes a negative cost item, so it lowers our personnel cost. And I think what can be said about this year as opposed to last year is that we saw a lot of vacation being taken out during the summer when people can travel again. So that is driving the variance.

[Pete-Veikko Kujala, analyst]

Yes. Great. That's helpful. And then on debt, you took some depth on Q3, I suppose to boost up the buybacks. But what's your thinking on? Would you be willing to take on more debt to put some lever on the balance sheet and do more buybacks also now given what is happening in rates, what's your thinking on that?

[Nick Lundvall, executive]

Look, I think we have the buyback mandate from the AGM, and that is the one we are sticking to at the moment. We have communicated a limit or rather a target to our buyback. That is not to say that this is not a business that in the future can sustain more leverage should the buyback target increase. But for now, we aim to operate at this targeted 450 buyback until at least the next AGM.

[Pete-Veikko Kujala, analyst]

All right. And then last one from me. So did you see some revenue coming in this quarter from the agent visibility service that you have launched quite recently. I think last quarter, the impact was still not really meaningful. So it would be interested to hear what has the feedback from agents being regarding that service? And are you seeing revenue inflows from that already?

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

So yes, we're seeing revenue inflows. Is that meaningful yet? No, it's not really. I would say we're still early on. So what we are doing currently as we speak, is that we'll continue working with the awareness part both for agents and consumer. And then I think yesterday, we actually added that to both the app and web, so you can actually search for a broker. So that's also a super important step in doing that. And also during the fall, a lot of focus on go-to-market and sales. So yes, revenue but not like any meaningful impact yet.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from the line of Eirik Rafdal of Carnegie.

[Eirik Rafdal, analyst]

Eirik here from Carnegie. Maybe we can do them one by one. If we start on the real estate developer side, you called out a couple of new initiatives, renewed listings project pages, et cetera. When do you expect that to really kick in and contribute to growth?

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

So I mean, we expect those improvements to kick in quite in new business actually. I think to add that the renewal it's a very concrete value-add to the property developers. I think just to highlight also from that customer groups as we're selling an increased upside for these new services, we're also selling a more challenged market out there. And I think that some property developers also are a bit hesitant in marketing in the short term, I believe. So yes, on one hand, we're seeing uptick. But then on the other hand, we're also seeing a bit of hesitation at the same time. So it's hard to say anything else or say anything more about that rather than this is what we're seeing at the moment.

[Eirik Rafdal, analyst]

Okay. Perfect. And just a quick follow-up as well. I see not that brokers without an annual contract, the annual contracts that you do have in terms of revenue in an average quarter, how much does those annual contracts make up? And when are they up for renewal in the sense that you highlight the uptake, but also somewhat of a maybe increased uncertainty?

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

Okay. So we don't disclose any numbers on the annual and the agreements and contracts. But I would say, generally, when we talk about our contracts and agreements is often on a yearly basis, and they're often set during the fall for the following year, often.

[Eirik Rafdal, analyst]

Perfect. Okay. And then I've got a question on the advertising revenues, which it improved year-over-year goes rate sequentially from Q2 to Q3, but on pretty easier comps. How should we think about this revenue line in the short term and into next year? And could you also maybe say anything about dynamics on those longer-term versus more short-term contracts?

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

So I think what we can say is that we -- and we continue seeing in high demand from most business customers. And I think that the sales team has done a tremendously good job also in working with pricing to a couple of lower traffic with better pricing. And it is an important area. What we also can highlight is that we've seen also some positive reactions to the updates we did and communicated earlier on the bank integration. So that is good. And so this is an ongoing work. We're not -- it's not a priority for next year. We prioritize building the new products for agents and property developers, but this is, of course, an important foundation. And we continue seeing high demand, and the sales team is doing a good job in handling that demand.

[Eirik Rafdal, analyst]

Perfect. And just one last one for me, if I may. -- is you commented that the price at which you base your product has increased, not decreased, as asking prices are still on the rise. But I assume that maybe at some point, the bid-ask spread and the market will narrow and that asking prices might come a bit down. How should we think about that potential decline in terms of pricing of the packages and how that will affect the average revenue per listing in the coming quarters? And also how dynamic you can be there to potentially offset some decline in asking prices?

[Nick Lundvall, executive]

Eirik, what we have said in the past is that we feel like there is some pricing headroom remaining on one hand. On the other hand, there is not a perfect correlation between asking price and the price for our products. So just because there is a, for example, 6% decrease in asking price. So that does not correlate exactly to a drop in our products. We feel comfortable that there is enough headroom and enough demand for our products to withstand price decreases even for asking prices.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions]. And there are no further questions on the telephone at this time. Please go ahead, Jens. We have some questions that I'll comment on e-mail that we will take now. The first question is, is there any risk of amortization requirements changing or any other changes, I assume regulatory that could impact the housing market?

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

I think it is clear. I mean it's an ongoing discussion in around amortization rules. But I think we don't expect any changes to that rule.

[Operator]

The next question is if we can provide some more details on product launches for agents and also to give a brief explanation on Mäklartipset.

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

Yes. So we are -- we don't disclose the exact road map. But what we can say is that we have during the year and also in this quarter, taken some really important steps within the agent area. As I mentioned previously in this call, yesterday, we launched also the search broker feature in both apps and web in web, and we'll continue taking steps going forward in that area.

[Operator]

And sorry, it was another question as well.

[Cecilia Beck-Friis, executive]

Yes, the Mäklartipset. So Mäklartipset is a value-added service for a value-added product for brokers. It's top-of-the-list product that will sell. We have a launch every November where agents can buy that product for the upcoming year, and that launch is now in the mid-November.

[Jens Melin, executive]

Thank you. The next question is listing volumes and trends for Q4. And here, I will just remind you that we do publish listing volumes on Hemnet's statistics. And we do this on a weekly basis for supply, traffic and listings, so you can track this there. And then a final question was on personnel cost. We have briefly touched on the variation already and what is the underlying base for Q4 that should be used where I -- Q4 is a bit of a strange one because it is also a quarter impacted by vacation. But of course, it is more similar to Q1 and Q2 given that Q3, the majority of the quarter is in the summer months. Those questions were from Catherine on lot City. I don't have any other questions on e-mail. So with that, I think we should wrap up, operator, please.

[Operator]

This now concludes our presentation. Thank you all for attending. Participants, you may now disconnect.