Devyser Diagnostics AB

STO:DVYSR

Earnings Call Transcript 2024-Q1

[Operator]

Welcome to the Devyser Diagnostics Q1 2024 Presentation. [Operator Instructions] Now I will hand the conference over to the speakers CEO, Fredrik Alpsten; CFO, Sabina Berlin; and CCO, Theis Kipling. Please go ahead.

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

Thank you for that. And again, welcome to the Devyser Q1 2024 Earnings Call. It's a great pleasure to have you all here. And as said, today, we listen to me, Fredrik Alpsten, the Devyser CEO; and our Chief Commercial Officer, Theis Kipling. I have also asked our CFO, Sabina Berlin, to join us during the Q&A session.

Before we go into our Q1 numbers and talk about the nice development we are seeing, I want to take 5 minutes to repeat what Devyser is to our new and potential new shareholders. Devyser is becoming increasingly well known as a reliable, high-quality, next-generation sequencing reagent provider.

Through our high-growth, innovative products and collaboration with industry giants like Thermo Fisher and Illumina, our name and brand are getting a lot of additional recognition. Devyser was founded and driven by the value of a fast and accurate diagnosis. It's the foundation for everything we do to ensure every patient has access to a correct diagnosis in the shortest possible time.

Genetic test can still require a very long time for patients before they get their results, causing worry and potential harm for the patients. Ultimately, we want to enable faster response times for genetic tests and early detection of diseases to help people live healthier and longer lives.

More than 100,000 people were testing with our products in Q1 2024. That is something I, and my colleagues are very proud of.

Devyser is on a journey. As you may know, we have had a very nice development over the last years, including average organic revenue growth of 36% per year. Gross margins well above 80%. Launches of many very innovative products and commercial expansions, both by setting up direct sales organization and entering into collaboration with some of the most successful global companies. However, we are confident that we are just beginning our fantastic journey.

Over the last 9 to 12 months, we have taken some very important steps to build a global, fast-growing, highly profitable diagnostic company. Our mission is to be the pioneering leader of the diagnostic solutions and provide fast, accurate and easy-of-use solutions to labs worldwide.

Our vision is evolved by personalized medicine is universally available, thanks to simplified and reliable genetic test. So what do we do? We develop and market genetic test solutions to guide targeted cancer therapies, post-diagnosis of hereditary diseases and post-transplant follow-up.

All development and all manufacturing are taking place in-house in our facility in Stockholm. We sell our products, [indiscernible] software to clinical and diagnostic labs via our own sales reps, and we are partners or we have distributors. We also provide test services to labs and pharmaceutical companies. We have developed and launched more than 35 IVD and IVDR registered products. We are acting in 3 diagnostic areas: relative diseases, oncology and post transplantation.

We've based here in Stockholm, but we have subsidiaries sales offices in 8 countries plus a clear certified laboratory in Atlanta, Georgia. We have around 120 employees. Our customers select Devyser because we provide simple, accurate and efficient genetic testing solutions.

Our acute software is easy to implement, maintain and use for the laboratories. This has been the foundation for all of our successful growth because we design our products with a deep understanding of the clinical laboratory workflow to put a genetic laboratory team in purpose.

We currently sell in over 65 countries. The blue countries on the map. We have 4 sales channels: direct sales, partners, our CLIA lab and distributors. You will hear more about that a bit later on in the presentation and Theis will cover that.

Today, we sell directly in some 15 countries, all in Europe and North America. We currently have 1 partner, Thermo Fisher, selling our transplantation products exclusively in North America, Europe, Brazil and Saudi Arabia. We have 50-plus distributors that are selling up products in some 50 countries.

Our CLIA lab in Atlanta offers test services for some of our products for the U.S. market. And it also offers test services to pharmaceutical and diagnostic companies. Europe is still our dominating market with 88% of total sales for the last 12 months.

Americas, however, is growing fast. 9% of total sales in the last 12 months compared with 3% the year before. APAC is still a rather small area for us, with only 3% of total sales.

For the last 12 months, 75% of revenue came from direct sales, including the CLIA lab and 25% from distributors sales, including the sales partners. The growth in the company is high, I would say, even very high. Organic growth has been 36% in average since 2015, but despite a big hiccup in 2020 due to COVID.

We reached SEK 180 million in revenue for the last 12 months. So let's move on and talk about the first quarter. Sales developed well during the quarter and amounted to SEK 51 million, a new record. The earlier record was from Q3 2023 when we reached SEK 47 million. Sales growth consisting entirely of organic growth was 28.5% in sales and 27.7% in local currency.

Although these are high numbers, we are optimistic about increasing the growth rate even more in the future. Growth in some of the direct markets in Europe and the distributor markets in Asia was lower than designed during the quarter.

Europe grew by 22%, while Asia had a negative development, primarily due to uneven purchasing patterns from our distributors. However, we assess that Europe's, I would say, modest growth is only temporary. The strong development we saw in 2023 for Europe should soon return. Several of the important steps we took in 2022 and 2023 materialized fully.

You also see the negative development in Asia as temporary. During the last 12 to 18 months, we have concluded several distributor contracts in Asia, and the expectation is that these will start generating sales in the second half of 2024.

Most gratifying is that the growth in North and South America continues to be strong. The first quarter showed a sales increase of 291%, although from a low level, of course.

Our main focus in 2024 and 2025 will be in North America and Europe, and we will continue to expand and strengthen our market shares in both markets. We expect continued strong growth from these regions in the future as well.

All our product areas are growing strongly, particularly, however, the transplantation products is continue to develop very, very well. The gross margin amount -- sorry, just a bit further -- the gross margin amounted to 82.7% compared with 85.2% in the same quarter last year.

The lower gross margin can primarily be derived from increased production capacity build-up to take advantage of our business opportunities and meet future expected volume increases. Significant investment has been made both in production capacity and in new employees.

However, we are positive about the gross margin development over time, partly because we have a scalable manufacturing process where the increased volume will soon absorb the increased fixed costs and partly because we still have the opportunity to increase our prices continuously.

The result for the quarter was in line with our expectations. The EBIT increased to minus SEK 12.2 million compared with minus SEK 19.1 million in the same quarter of last year. As announced in the report for the third quarter of 2023, our move to new premises has entailed some extra costs that burdened the fourth quarter of 2023 and, to some extent, the first quarter of 2024.

Despite this, the operating expenses in the first quarter compared with the first quarter 2023 only increased by 9.7%. We are convinced that the positive earnings development we saw in 2023 will continue and that we will reach our financial goal of an EBIT margin exceeding 20% during the period 2024 to 2026.

Devyser has a very strong financial position, SEK 250 million in cash at the end of the quarter and no interest-bearing debt. As we have moved to a new facility, we have invested quite much in our production capacity during the quarter.

The investments in production equipment amounted to roughly SEK 17 million during the quarter. We will not see any such investments during the rest of 2024. We will see a nice future sales development with our innovative products, high market growth and very professional commercial organization and some of the best commercial partners. At the moment, we do not see anything that can change this.

Of course, we may have single quarters that will not perform that well, but the trend is crystal clear. Sales are increasing much and most quarters will be a record quarters. High volumes will give high gross margins even if we were affected in Q1 by our move to the new facility. This yellow bars show quarterly sales and the orange line shows quarterly gross margins.

So with that, I leave over to Theis Kipling, our Chief Commercial Officer, and he will give you a commercial outlook.

[Theis Kipling, executive]

Thank you, Fredrik. I'm very pleased to be adding some more context to the Devyser commercial successes that we've had here during Q1. In fact, I'm today calling in from Atlanta in the U.S. where I'm here meeting with new customers as well as reviewing the impressive growth brand that we have in North America, together with our great U.S. team.

As Fredrik already mentioned, we are commercializing through 4 channels. And I want to give you a little bit of perspective here. The first channel is our direct sales for established markets where we have our own team and our own Devyser legal entity.

Our direct sales will continue to increase, although we expect the share versus total sales to likely reduce gradually due to the increased utilization of partnership because partnerships is our second panel and the revenues coming from partnerships will grow faster than any other channel that we have as we increase the number of partnerships.

Partnerships are typically exclusive [Audio Gap] at broader and very attractive collaboration. And today, we have 1 partner, as already mentioned, being One Lambda, a part of Thermo Fisher, but we do expect many -- several more to come.

Our third channel is our lab services, utilizing our U.S. certified laboratory which is a strong platform for continued growth. We do both patient testing on our own products on behalf of other companies and not least, do we pursue projects together with pharmaceutical companies.

Our fourth channel is the distributor channel. Today, we have, as mentioned about 50 distributors which is a number that actually has increased a lot during the past 2 years. Distributor contracts can be both exclusive and nonexclusive and is typically used for us to enter a new geographic market.

And once we see a large enough demand in a distributor market, we're typically converting that market to become a direct sales market. Our agreements with One Lambda is progressing as planned. And we are very pleased with both their progress and our collaboration.

At least once per quarter, we have a face-to-face joint steering committee meeting with the management on both sides. But currently, we are actually meeting a lot more often. Our test for solid organ post transplantation, the Accept cfDNA was initially launched, focused just on kidney as an indication.

However, during 2024, we are broadening the intended use to also include heart, liver and lung transplants significantly expand the market simply by the increased number of patients that our tests can reach and help, which we're very excited about.

In addition, we have 2 new rather substantial new product launches coming up. And we are currently in dialogue with One Lambda about these, and they may become part of the existing contract that we have with them.

So all in all, it's a very, very positive story. And I'm confident to say that we have a lot more to be set within this market during the coming years.

Now on to our Devyser genomics laboratories here in Atlanta, which is our CLIA-certified laboratory. We have signed our first commercial contract with the U.K.-based oncology company Cyted, which came nicely in Q1. And as already communicated, this has the potential of generating up to SEK 25 million over the first 2 years.

Currently, both our RHD and Chimerism tests have been validated in the lab. While we are still working on validating Accept cfDNA and our test for cystic fibrosis. As of April 29, we hired a Vice President of market access, reimbursement and public affairs here in the U.S. which we are very excited about. And I'm confident that you'll soon be hearing about the results from this capacity within our Devyser team.

During our Q4 earnings call, we mentioned the updated guidelines made for cystic fibrosis here in the U.S., changing the guidelines from the technique 23 variants variance.

And I'm happy to report, as press released already that we brought on our first larger account, the University of North , the UNC as we refer to it, with an estimated total order value of up to SEK 10 million over 4 years.

And to give you some perspective on the significance of the market opportunity here in the U.S., then the UNC account, has a volume of a few thousand tests annually in a market that we estimate to be holding approximately 1.4 million tests annually in the United States.

Some of you may already have picked up on the announcement on April 29, made by the FDA on the long-awaited final rule around the regulation of laboratory developed tests, LDTs. As expected, the final rule is more or less consistent with the proposed rule communicated by the FDA on September 29 of 2023. So for Devyser, this was as expected.

Just like in Europe, the FDA wants to increase patient safety by regulating the many nonregulated tests available here. Devyser is an advocate of increased patient safety. And thus, we do embrace the change and we do also believe that Devyser is actually very well positioned based on our experience taking products to IVDR approvals already.

The final regulations of laboratory developed tests is a heavy document covering 528 pages. And together with our consultants, we have gone through it over the past week. And so far, our conclusions are the following: There will be an up to 4-year long phase-in period. It is expected that some suppliers [Audio Gap] the suggested FDA rule, which may lead to further delays.

Selling of Devyser products will not be affected in the short term. Over the long term, some of Devyser's products, depending on its risk class, may need FDA approvals, but that work has been going on in Devyser for already quite some time.

A cornerstone in our commercialization is to be claim-based and differentiated across both Europe within IVDR and the U.S. with FDA and [Audio Gap]. This is another change during the past 2 years to how Devyser have otherwise been working in the past.

This means that we are investing more into clinical and regulatory programs than ever before. And already today, we are seen and recognized as a leader within Europe, our IVDR certification and the track record that we have which is an approach we are now also bringing to the U.S.

In this regard, we welcome the partnership as announced with Illumina being a key component for us to commercialize on their Dx platform as required by the FDA. A few words on the Illumina partnership and the agreements we press released earlier in Q1.

This agreement enables us to develop and commercialize end-to-end solutions on the Illumina MiSeqDxNGS instrument, the Dx instrument has a preset software that can't be altered and thus is a guarantee for consistent reproducibility being a requirement by the FDA.

For a smaller company like Devyser, this is a very significant achievement to strike as such an agreement NGS instrument provider globally. And we're excited to see this grow even further during the coming years. We plan to have our transplantation products and our product for cystic fibrosis to become FDA approved as the initial ones.

And with that, Fredrik, I'll give the word back to you.

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

Thank you for that, Theis. At our earnings calls, we speak very much about the nice sales development we have and our earnings development. We do not speak that much about the world class, and I will say the world leading development of products that are taking place in the company, and that is important for our future sales growth.

As you may know, since the company was founded 20 years ago, we have developed and registered and launched over 35 products. We expect this nice development to continue. We have more than 30 employees within development, and they are contributing a lot.

Just over the last 12 months, we have launched 7, 8 new products. In addition to the work on upgrading products on IVD to IVDR, we did that in addition to that, of course. We expect to launch a 5 to 10 new products in the next 6 to 18 months, including 3, 4 transplant patient products.

In addition, we are investing a lot in clinical -- in our clinical affairs group, and we are running quite many clinical studies at the moment. As you know, over the last 2 years, we have taken some very important steps to build a global fast-growing, highly profitable diagnostic company.

As you also have heard, we are very optimistic about the future. We are focusing on North America and Europe. It is one where we have all our sales channels, direct sales partners, CLIA lab and distributors.

We are very glad that the investments in the U.S. market have given results and that Americas now represents 9% of our total revenue. I'm also very proud of the -- to the work at a company like Devyser that with year-after-year can develop and launch many new innovative products.

I'm optimistic about the same interest -- about some very interesting product launches within the next 6 to 18 months. However, as important as high growth is to continue our way to profitability, and that's our main focus in 2024.

So with that, I open now up for questions.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Ulrik Trattner from Carnegie.

[Ulrik Trattner, analyst]

A few questions on my end. And perhaps we will start off with the regulatory change in the U.S. regarding lab developed tests as being more of a stringent take on the industry from FDA. And just a follow-up on the comments from you, this is in regards to how much of your current work that you've done in IVDR can be recognized in the U.S.? As well as given the regulatory change, are you planning to accelerate FDA approval of certain tests in the U.S.?

And I recognize your collaboration with Illumina and their platform being one of very few to be approved by the FDA already, which then in turn, I guess, would enable you to recognize FDA approval for your certain test. That would be my first question.

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

Could you take it, Theis?

[Theis Kipling, executive]

Yes, I can do that. By saying that the Illumina agreement that we announced during Q1 was a deliberate and strategic intent to pursue FDA approvals, and that means that we are not seeing this rule change anything, to be honest, of the way that we are working. We have a pretty ambition on the U.S. and the FDA.

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

And as you understand, maybe I can add, we were expecting this. So this is not a surprise for us.

[Ulrik Trattner, analyst]

And just a follow-up. Did you -- but do you expect this to carry any additional costs on your end? I know that you've undertaken measures already in terms of quality assurance and regulatory buildup internally. But will this be required for you to accelerate these process that you've already implemented? Or do you feel that your current operations are already scaled to a sufficient level?

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

I can answer that. Yes, we do not expect any higher expenses due to this. We can use some of our studies from Europe. We may need to run 1 of 2 small studies in the U.S. to fulfill some requirements for the U.S. market. But we do not see any big increase in expenses due to this because we are scaled up already for that and have planned for that already.

[Ulrik Trattner, analyst]

Great. And just on gain sort of a follow-up there on these on some comments and both you, Fredrik as well. Because I do also recognize cystic fibrosis being an interesting market there and your test looks to be competitive. But could you help us outline what is sort of the current competitive profile of your test and the competitors out there? And what is still sort of lacking before we see all of this work that you've done translating into commercial contracts?

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

Maybe you can answer that, Theis.

[Theis Kipling, executive]

Yes, I can do that. So the cystic fibrosis test that we have is one in a handful of tests here in the U.S. that meets the guidelines and the changes of the guidelines. And that in itself should speak well for the potential that we see here with this test. And that goes together with the competitive challenge or improvement and position we have with how all our tests are made with regards to the workflow.

So we know that our workflow across our tests within NGS are much more seamlessly and [Audio Gap] by customers. And now we have this cystic fibrosis that, with that unique workflow plus being covered by the guidelines, right, as only one in -- I think there are probably 5 here in the market, roughly, who actually does that.

So we do expect a lot. We are exploiting this opportunity over here in the U.S., day in, day out, all week.

[Ulrik Trattner, analyst]

Great. And just a follow-up question on cystic fibrosis. You've historically showcased the workflow benefits in thalassemia and in RHD screening. Suggest by my comparison here, how does your test on the workflow stack up to the current competition for those who actually sort of are in line with the new guidelines?

[Theis Kipling, executive]

On the workflow, I'd say we're still in the lead. That's typically one of the realizations whenever we convert customers to our test, they -- when we break for lunch after having done the demo, they ask, "Now what? What do we do now?" And we tell them, "Now we're done. Now we wait for the results," and they're completely believed. That also applies for the cystic fibrosis test here in the U.S.

And I'm super confident, this is going to carry its weight. And we will be very successful in the states as we are successful with both cystic fibrosis, thalassemia and so forth here and in Europe as well.

[Ulrik Trattner, analyst]

And if we could keep our focus on the North American markets. Obviously, sales growing from a low base, and we're still waiting for delivery on the Canada tender. So what's the current update on delivering on the already awarded tender? And I know from last call that you were very optimistic in the short term that there will be an outcome in a larger tender from blood Canada, which you obviously are favorably positioned towards, any update on that as well would be helpful.

[Theis Kipling, executive]

Yes, I can take that. We believe that we still have the only RSD tests that are approved by Health Canada, which in itself fight a strong position to be in. We are entertaining the dialogue with the different providers and in various dialogues actually, on RHD in Canada. So I remain very hopeful that this is going to be a great test covering most of Canada as we are doing the Nordics, we're covering all at Wales with our test, and this will go into Canada.

I can build [Audio Gap] and say, I believe that this is going to be a pretty interesting and unique test and opportunity in the United States even. But that said, we're still awaiting we already awarded tender to start taking off. They're still in their internal preparations.

[Ulrik Trattner, analyst]

So most likely towards the year-end where we should see first deliveries?

[Theis Kipling, executive]

Yes. Maybe you can comment on that, Fredrik, but we're -- that's a reasonable time line.

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

Yes. As we have communicated earlier, it's not due to us that it has been delayed, starting already whole tender, but we expect something around year-end, I would say. And hopefully, as Theis said, we believe that the new and much bigger tender that we are right for now, that we can share more about that at the next earnings call.

[Ulrik Trattner, analyst]

Two more questions from me and I'll get back into the queue. You talked about a bit of a softer market in Asia and in Europe. And I know that you're seeing -- at least you're commenting very positively on market recovery. And yes, I note that you're adding distributors in Asia, that's one leading indicator. Could you help us sort of understand what are you using as your leading indicator on recovery in Europe? And is this mainly an external marketing? Or is this -- or is there any sort of internal limitations?

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

Can you comment on that, Theis?

[Theis Kipling, executive]

Yes, I can cover that. So let's start in APAC. As Fredrik already mentioned, we have actually onboarded quite a number of distributors. And we are seeing, I'd say, pretty strong [Audio Gap] some of those are really coming on board quite fast and quite strong. So this will rebound for sure.

That said, also, APAC is for now less of a priority for Devyser. We are investing and focusing I'd say, the majority, vast majority of our efforts in Europe and North America. And then I can turn the focus to Europe. I think we're still seeing quite strong growth in Europe. But as Fredrik said, we obviously expect that, that's only going to increase and strengthen and that's due to -- we're still in the very early days of going live with our [Audio Gap] countries that we have in Europe, in Spain, France, U.K., Benelux, Germany region, DACH as we refer it.

We are adding more people also during -- we already have done that, and we are adding more people during the year and we will see an increased effect from those. And our ambition is to replicate what we have done very successfully in Italy for the past years in all the large European markets. And I'm saying that with great belief because I know that we are competitively very strong.

We're very well positioned. And we -- when we get up against competitors, we usually win those demonstrations also. So I'm confident.

[Ulrik Trattner, analyst]

Is there any market in Europe, which -- where you're not really satisfied with the development? I know that you've been awarded tenders out of the U.K., Italy has been your largest market. I'm guessing it still is your largest market in Europe and overall, but looking at larger geographies such as Germany and France, are you happy with the current development in direct sales in these regions or are additional efforts needed to accelerate these markets?

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

Maybe you can comment a little bit about France. Please go ahead, Theis.

[Theis Kipling, executive]

Yes. I mean in France, we're adding our first employee now. So in France, that's a market that we haven't really unlocked yet. That is only starting now. And that said, we will see the impact of that during next year. Initially, there will be some coming in this year, but we see France being a great opportunity.

We have done well in Germany, and we are -- but we are far from done, right? So working with the team, we internally have doubling aspiration for all of our market share in the coming years in Europe, right?

So that said also in Spain, we have made some incremental gains, engaged in some new partnerships. I have high expectations that that's going to unleash and unlock additional growth for the U.K. So you saw the Wales tender that we announced with RHD. I think there's -- I'm confident. I think, obviously, I'm ambitious guy, would like things to move even faster. But when I look at what we have done in the past couple of years, I can only be very happy. And I'm...

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

and maybe I can also add that we are still growing quite much in Italy even if that's our biggest market. As you saw for 2023, we had a growth in excess of 20% in Italy, where we are market leader for many products. We have also seen -- we will not share any numbers here about Q1. But also this year, Italy has done great when it comes to revenue growth.

[Ulrik Trattner, analyst]

And last question on my end, and it relates to the cost base. And if you can -- you sound very confident in reaching high margins here in line with your financial targets, although it is spanning a few years. But can you help us decipher the cost of one-off character here in Q1 attributed to new facilities, ERP systems, CRM systems, how much of your current cost base is what you would consider one-off character?

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

Yes, we have not shared the exact number because it also reflects how do you define these expenses because some are due to expanded production capacity and some are due to the move to the new facility. But I think it's important to remember what we said already in Q3 report 2023, that we had higher expenses in Q4 and some higher expenses also in Q1 2024.

We do not foresee any such switching expenses now going forward. So I think we have taken more or less all of that during the first quarter and the fourth quarter. As we have communicated earlier, we have double rent, for example, for the full 2024. So that we will -- that's something we have to live with. So -- but that's to minimize the risk to have -- if we have problems moving or if we have delays moving, so we have taken that as a cost. I'm sorry, I didn't give you an exact numbers here, Ulrik, but I'll stop here.

[Ulrik Trattner, analyst]

And just a quick follow-up on that one. If we were to have excluded -- I know that you don't want to define one-off costs, but if you were to exclude the things that you would consider one-off costs, would we have seen a linear trajectory, like we did see from Q1 to Q3 last year in terms of the earnings improvements?

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

Probably, yes. As you saw here in -- I think what's important to remember on the Q1 numbers, we had a quite high decrease in the gross margin. And that's, of course, mainly because we have now used consultants for validating our new site and that's expensive.

And even if you have SEK 1 million, SEK 2 million, SEK 3 million in consulting costs with a revenue of SEK 50 million, it suddenly -- it decreased the gross margin quite substantially, but just by adding a couple of consultants. But that's a onetime cost. We do not expect to see that going forward.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Oscar Bergman from Redeye.

[Oscar Bergman, analyst]

I just have 3 short questions. The first one related to the U.S. pipeline. And I'm wondering if it's likely that a contract such as the one with Cyted if that is likely to come similar site contracts during the year or if that was more of an exceptionally high order value of such a contract?

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

Do you want to answer that, Theis?

[Theis Kipling, executive]

Yes, I can say that without giving any promises of whether we will get similar contracts like the one we have with Cyted during the year. I can say that we are actively pursuing it and actively also taking inquiries for potential new collaborations. So it is a part of how we are operating and utilizing our lab here in the U.S.

[Oscar Bergman, analyst]

And I'm wondering about the European market also because I think roughly half of your sales come from Italy, right? Does the other large European markets -- how they differ from Italy in any sense? Or is it more or less a similar playing field?

[Theis Kipling, executive]

I can answer that, Fredrik, maybe not much. I mean it's all within Europe. Italians are obviously different than Germans and our French people, but they still work under the same regulation. It's very much the same, right? And that being said, I do believe we will be able to do the same as we have done key differentiation or the difference really is we have a very significant large team that is a great team in Italy, but the products are the same, customer types are the same.

So I do believe that we are able to replicate what we have done in Italy. And I believe that Q4 earnings call that when we look at the growth trajectory we have, for example, in Germany and other markets, it does look like we are about to replicate what we have done in Italy.

[Oscar Bergman, analyst]

Okay. And just a final question. There were some investments related to the move to the new premises in the Q1, are those finished now or could we expect some additional investments in Q2?

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

They are more or less finished now. So we will not see such a huge investments anymore. I cannot promise maybe we will buy 1 or 2 instruments. But it will be a much smaller amount.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

[Fredrik Alpsten, executive]

Thank you for participating, and thank you for good questions. Looking forward to meet you again. This time, we will publish the Q2 report already in July. So hope to meet you there. And as always, do not hesitate to reach out if you have a more specific question. Thank you.