Acast AB (publ)

STO:ACAST

Earnings Call Transcript 2022-Q3

[Unknown Executive]

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the presentation of Acast's results for the third quarter. [Operator Instructions] And with that, I would like to hand over to our CEO, Ross Adams.

[Ross Adams, executive]

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking the time to listen to our third quarterly report of 2022. In case you're new to our course, I'm Ross Adams, the CEO of Acast and based normally out of New York; our CFO, Emily Villatte, based out of Sweden. We will take you through the numbers for the past quarter. But before we get into them, I'd just like to repeat a few things from the Capital Market's Day that we held in early October. As I said then and very much holds true today the overall opportunity for podcasting is massive. We all know the total addressable market is huge, and the medium itself is still under monetized. We at Acast have established a unique position in our markets and have a unique ability to leverage our technology to solve with the friction points of the industry at scale. We have made heavy investments to date and can now focus our business and will deliver profits in 2024. And let's not forget that we are well financed and have a strong balance sheet. So whilst the macro context and capital markets are volatile right now, which of course impacts us just like any other company out there, the fundamental growth levers we see for our business are strong and we have a healthy business, a fantastic culture, and very exciting prospects for the years ahead. We built from the ground up the infrastructure needed for podcasters and advertisers to meet and transact. And that included being first to market with dynamic ads insertion for podcasts, which changed the game and made it so much easier, both for podcasters to monetize and for advertisers to buy podcast space. We essentially turned an analog medium into a digital one. And that made how quickly grew our portfolio shows into the thousands. Alongside the growth of our podcast portfolio. We've also been focused on getting more advertisers all around the world to spend with Acast more often. Throughout the past year, nearly 2,500 different advertisers have brought ads on Acast shows which is the result of a lot of effort from our global sales teams. We work hard to consistently grow our network of advertising partners and to educate the market on why this is such an effective media channel. Podcasts are expected to reach a market of USD 4 billion to USD 6 billion in the next 3 years. But when we only look at the number of people listening to podcasts and the total time they spend listening every week, the investment from advertisers should be much-much higher than it currently is. The exciting thing is that this means there's a huge opportunity to move more advertising dollars from other forms of audio into podcasts as the industry continues to scale and grow, and Acast is uniquely positioned to do this and to take market share in the years to come. Our offering puts podcasters first and makes them as much money as possible through advertising. It's a win-win for podcasters and advertisers alike. It's why so many creators are coming to Acast and why so many advertisers trust us with their investment. When went public in June 2021, Acast was home to just under 30,000 podcasts and by the end of the third quarter this year tis number was at 88,000 with more than 1.3 billion listens per quarter. We've invested and worked hard to increase our podcast network which is clearly paying off. Our churn is very low because we really are the best at what we do, getting podcasts out there into the world, helping podcasters grow on a global scale and making them as much money as possible. During the quarter, we announced that we're in the process of reducing our cost base, and we will put a lot of focus on improving our internal efficiency going forward. At the same time we see great potential to also increase ad sales through what we call the head, the heart, and the tail. The head is simply made up of those big shows, well-known shows that command the most revenue, mostly in the form of direct sales. There are a smaller number of them, but they're disproportionately successful. They're the shows the big advertisers and the big agencies want to be associated with first. Then of course we have the heart and this is where we see huge potential. These shows are attractive to smaller advertisers like SMEs that want to access the podcast medium but may have fewer resources. And these shows are -- and their audiences are typically come with higher ROI for advertisers. So the larger shows are great for reaching scale but these shows right at the heart offer outstanding engagement and ROI for advertisers with a truly dedicated listener base. Our opportunity here is how we automate and scale selling these shows. The main point I want to make is that we have huge potential to increase the revenue from each of these 3 groups. Here the purple lines are representation of where shows not being monetized. And if we look at how we stand today, you can see that our revenue is very much centralized around media agencies and big brands buying up biggest shows that hit. They buy directly through our sales teams and also via programmatic. But we have a lot of exciting opportunities to improve and work on how we sell across the board. And we think this is incredibly exciting. Even if we weren't increasing the number of podcasts and therefore our total ad inventory, we'd still be able to grow our revenue from where we are today by selling across more different podcasts and thereby increasing sell through rates. And as I said at the start, the opportunity here is massive. So how do we increase that sell through rates? Well, let's take a closer look at some of our innovations for advertisers and how they help us offer the industry's most innovative ad targeting opportunities. So first up in Q2, we began rolling out our conversational targeting capabilities. We're using AI here to transcribe hundreds of thousands of podcast episodes to enable better, more granular targeting, all while respecting listener privacy. And the uptake from advertisers so far has been promising and it includes a number of big well-known brands from banks to health care. Until now podcasts and their advertising space have mostly been tagged in relation to the genre, meaning 2 very different shows might be tagged and presented to potential advertisers in the same way just because they cover similar topics, with conversational targeting advertisers are now able to target specific conversations within podcast episodes. That means they can align themselves with conversations that differ from the podcast genre, or the episodes overarching theme. Throughout the year we'll be introducing new capabilities. Keyword targeting is the next innovation on the horizon and will allow us to go even deeper and help advertisers to be even more granular in their targeting, offering the ability to target towards or of course away from any episode where specific keywords are mentioned. On one hand, this brings innovative new levels of hyper targeting, a brand being able to target every mention of itself across all podcast episodes as an example, or to advertise against competitor mentions. On the other hand, it gives greater reassurance to terms of brand safety, allowing brands to explicitly target away from episodes mentioning specific keywords. Keyword targeting also offers the potential to think about ad inventory in a completely new way. An advertiser might choose to own the first mention of specific keywords in future episode releases as an example. Besides from all of this rich first party data, we continue to work with well-respected partners such as Nielsen to power third party data for audience segments, targeting audiences at a listener level. Then we have our curated collections. And these are collections of podcasts with similar audience demographics packaged up together so that advertisers can reach more of these types of listeners and they want to but at scale, and there are more than 40 of these. The acquisition of Podchaser further strengthens our advertising offering at a show level. Podchaser provides trusted transparent data for advertisers and marketing professionals to more efficiently find a reach engage podcast audiences. So to summarize, we've made smart investments in our ad technology and ad capabilities to bolster the competitive advantage of our advertising products, creating value for our advertisers. So with that ambition in place. Let's look at our performance for the quarter. In Q3 we reached -- we saw revenues grow by 21% with a gross margin of 35% and the adjusted EBITDA margin improved by 8 percentage points to minus 23% compared to the second quarter this year, as the company reached an inflection point and now moves towards profitability. Even in a more challenging macro environment we are moving towards profitability in 2024. In Q3, we announced our acquisition of Podchaser. As a reminder, Podchaser is the world's largest, most comprehensive and most authoritative podcast database. And we think it's really strong acquisition for both our podcasters and our advertisers alike. And for Acast this acquisition strengthens our position as the world's largest independent podcast company. Podchaser is a vital asset in our mission to continue driving innovation and our position within the open podcast ecosystem. And that will happen in 3 key ways, through discoverability, dollars and data. Firstly, enhancing discoverability. Podchaser will allow our podcaster shows to be more visible to more listeners, helping drive their growth and monetization goals. Secondly, dollars, Podchaser SaaS-based structure adds additional revenue to strengthen Acast's own business model. And thirdly, rich advertising data. Our advertisers will benefit from superior performance metrics enabling them to be more efficient, or efficiently reach their valuable audiences. This combined with our own Acast set gives us the richest pool of data in the industry giving advertisers even more options to spend. All in all, it's a move that we believe will set both companies up for long-term success. Moving on to recent events, we've always known and talked about our power and scale in the US. This past month that was proven as we joined Podtrac the leader in podcast measurement who placed us #2 in its first ever U.S. sales network ranker. This increased transparency and insight into the industry's players as it massively helped to facilitate analysis and planning for ad wires so they know where best to spend their dollars. In this past week, we announced yet another way we are helping podcasters diversifying their monetization options and are helping more money flow into the industry. An exciting innovative new deal. Amazon has purchased all of the ad inventory across Acast shows streamed on the Amazon music platform and will deliver those shows ad free to members of its prime and Amazon music, unlimited subscriptions, which results in revenue for the creators in question. This is just another example in the long list of partnerships that we've formed and are forging with our key partners in the industry helping on our mission to monetize as many podcasts as possible. I'll now hand over to Emily to talk you through the financial performance in more detail.

[Emily Villatte, executive]

Thank you, Ross. All right. So in Q3, the number of shows that we have on our platform reached 88,000 with listens reaching over 1.3 billion, and this represents, as you can see here, a record quarter. Listens grew by 48% compared to Q3 of 2021 and have thus been unaffected by the current macroeconomic context. And this means that we are continuing to build a very strong supply side in our marketplace. The average revenue per listen or ARPL of SEK 0.24 for the quarter has reduced compared to Q3 2021, but that is simply a result of our listens growing faster than our revenues at present time. But the ability or average revenue per listen to grow over time remains. And the more, of course, that we grow our listens, the greater our capacity is to service future demand. When it comes to net sales, all segments contributed to net sales growth of 21%. FX did contribute significantly to the tune of plus 13%. And with the acquisition of Podchaser contributed 2% to net sales growth. So this means that on an organic growth basis, we achieved 7% organic net sales growth, and this reflects a growing podcasting ad market. I should note that towards the end of the quarter, we did see an encouraging recovery in our advertising sales with July and August having been months with slower growth and then picking up pace towards the end of the quarter. When we look at our geographical segments, we saw reported net sales grow by double digits across the board. Europe has seen steady net sales growth during the year, including in Q3 and delivered 22% net sales growth despite the current advertiser sentiment. And CBIT or local contribution margins from Europe improved to 16%, which is encouraging. North America delivered net sales growth of 16%. I will note that North America was particularly impacted by FX and had single-digit organic net sales reduction when eliminating the contributing factors of Podchaser and FX. Podchaser contributed plus SEK 4 million the net sales and negative SEK 5.5 million in contribution losses. The end of the quarter, again, here in North America saw a pickup in momentum, which was encouraging. Other markets delivered 36% net sales growth and a marginal reduction in the contribution profits. And I'll note here as well and we'll get to this later on in the presentation, but the profit contribution or CBIT figures here have not been adjusted for the one-off costs related to our staff redundancies. More on that later. Moving on to the gross margin. In Q3, we did see gross profit increased by 16% compared to Q3 2021. And the gross margin in the period rebounded to 35% and if we look at the gross margin over time, it is now at a more steady level of 35% in Q3 2022 compared to the unusual dip that we had in the prior quarter. So it's good to be back at those levels. When we look at our operating expenses, they grew from SEK 149 million to SEK 215 million in Q3 of 2022 compared to the last -- to the same quarter last year. Here, of course, it can be noted that FX impacts our cost line, just like it does at the top line, and we know the increasing FX rates in pounds and U.S. dollars compared to the SEKs. That, of course, impacts our OpEx as well. Geographically, our operating expense increases have been focused in North America. And if we look by cost category, the cost increase was focused on product development as well as sales and marketing. But as we've spoken about previously, our heavy investment period that the company has gone through has now come to an end and a reduction in the workforce of around 15% was announced in Q3. In Q3, one-off costs of SEK 8 million related to the restructure were posted in our Q3 figures, and we anticipate some further cost to come through -- some further one-off costs to come through in Q4. This reorganization will realize annualized cost savings of around SEK 77 million based on average stock cost per FTE of SEK 1.1 million and a reduction of 70 staff. This cost reduction, combined with the growing podcasting ad market means that we are moving towards profitability. Our adjusted EBITDA margin in Q3 of 2022 was a negative 23%, which compares to a negative 16% margin in the same quarter last year. I do note that the adjusted EBITDA margin reached an inflection point in Q2 of this year and is expected to improve moving forward, subject, of course, to the usual seasonality that was in ad sales. Quarter-on-quarter, we improved our adjusted EBITDA margin by 8 percentage points from negative 31%, negative 23%. And the same can be said for our EBITDA results then our operating results for that matter. The message is the same for all profitability metrics. We reached peak loss in Q2 and are now firmly moving towards profit in 2024. So the path towards profitability is underpinned by our cost reductions announced in Q3 as well as continued growth in podcasting ad market, albeit from a lower baseline. The operating cash flows in the quarter were impacted by the losses as well as a negative impact from changes in working capital. But as our operating results now moves towards profitability, operating cash flows are expected to follow a similar trend, albeit with working capital fluctuations impacting individual quarters. And if we look at year-to-date operating cash flows over the last 12 months, we see that our operating cash flows have been slightly better than our operating losses. I also note that the cash balance as at the end of Q3 was over SEK 900 million, capturing all operating financing and the investing cash flows and outflows related to the acquisition of Podchaser. And I reiterate that we have the funds available to take us through our organic growth plan through to profitability. Over to you, Ross.

[Ross Adams, executive]

Great. Thank you, Emily. After the reporting period, we announced that for the first time ever in podcasting, advertisers can leverage their own first-party data to target high-value audiences across the Acast marketplace. We've created a bridge between the media buyer and podcast content supply that effectively enables brands to use the first-party insights they already have to serve more relevant ads in podcasts. And it's a massive first for the industry that not only drives revenue for brands, but creates a more enjoyable experience for listeners and ultimately increases monetization potential for podcasters. Our first-party data solution comes to market as advertisers continue to prepare the anticipated death of the cookie and restrictions on use of mobile identifiers, which will require them to rely on their own first-party data. And our Acast plus podcast subscription offering continues to grow, many more creators from many of our markets are starting up their offering to fans now able to offer bundling to paying listeners via onetime payments for content such as special collections or episodes. So in summary, Acast's strong business model has shown that even in the face of macroeconomic headwinds, we have shown growth and progressed our technology innovation to continue advancing our position as the world's largest podcast company. And that concludes our Q3 earnings call. Thank you very much for listening. Now over to Q&A.

[Unknown Executive]

Great. [Operator Instructions] And the first few questions come from Dennis Berggren of Carnegie. Could you please comment on the recently announced deal with Amazon Music and how should we think of this deal from a financial perspective? Does it include any onetime upfront contributions?

[Ross Adams, executive]

I'll pass over the financial stuff to Emily, second, but I think the Amazon deal is a fantastic deal. Amazon buying basically all of the listens on Amazon Music and buying all the ad or slots across their listens on the Amazon Music player. Amazon Music is a fairly new entrant into podcast listening. If you think about Apple, they've been there for 15 years or so and you think about like Spotify has been there for 7 years. Amazon launched a couple of years back, and this is clearly a move to help grow their listenership of Amazon Music. We provide, unified podcast to every single platform, no matter way you choose to, but this is a great deal for us. Emily can you comment on financials?

[Emily Villatte, executive]

I mean we haven't disclosed the details of the deal. But in terms of payment terms, I'm very happy with the deal that we have set up with Amazon and including the way that the money close.

[Unknown Executive]

Okay. Great. Second question from Dennis, how has the organic growth progressed throughout the quarter? We have read that July was very soft in terms of digital ads. Do you expect any considerable changes to the usual seasonality patterns in Q4 given the slowdown in advertising demand?

[Emily Villatte, executive]

In terms of how we travel through the quarter, you're correct, we source them in a pattern to what has been reported in the industry, a softer July followed by a stronger August and then a further pickup in pace in September. So I -- the phasing of our organic growth throughout the quarter has followed that of patterns in digital advertising and other players.

[Unknown Executive]

Good. And one more question. Strong development in new shows. Do you see any particular trends with regards to geography or size given the large sequential increases we have seen over the past 2 quarters?

[Ross Adams, executive]

I mean, we haven't seen any different kind of trends, markets changing, but -- the largest markets are the ones that will grow the quickest. U.S. is a huge market for podcast growth as well as the likes of key markets in Europe as well. So we're very pleased with the growth of shows, and it highlights that creators are happy and also creators are hearing more around Acast, being able to monetize their content. So we're pleased with that, growth.

[Unknown Executive]

Good. We have a question from Rickard Kramer. Can you lay out the economics to Acast of your relationship with Amazon and the upfront purchasing of inventory to support ad-free podcasts. Does the revenue rely on listening on Amazon Music? When you think about onboarding the large opportunity beyond leading brands, how do you see, I think, these are several questions actually. So should we stop there at the Amazon Music?

[Ross Adams, executive]

Emily comment?

[Emily Villatte, executive]

So this deal operates like an ad deal. So effectively, what Amazon has done is that they have bought the inventory on lessons that are coming through their prime subscriptions. So -- but instead of inserting ads into those ad slots, they are using that space to have no ads, and therefore, they're creating this ad free environment for their Prime subscribers. So it operates like an ad deal, and you know from our disclosures previously that our ads are typically a 50-50 split with the creators.

So again, we're aligned in our incentives. We're making money and the creators are making money, and the dynamics operate as if this were an ad.

[Unknown Executive]

Okay. Next question. When you think about onboarding the large opportunity beyond leading brands, how do you see RPL trending, especially with SMEs maybe not paying the same premium CPMs?

[Emily Villatte, executive]

Over time, we have a distinct opportunity to continue to increase average revenue per listen. The reason it has declined in this quarter is simply because listens have grown faster than revenues. There are some premium brands, of course, and independent podcasters that carry high CPMs. It also depends on what ad products we are selling. If we're selling whole spread sponsorships, that typically comes with a higher CPM than a regular ad buy or ad sold via the programmatic channel. But over time, as you recall from our Capital Markets Day, they are sell-through rates, so the level of inventory that we sold in 2021 was 28% of our total portfolio. So as we increase that sell-through rates over time, that increases our average revenue per listen and improves the monetization of our portfolio as a whole.

[Unknown Executive]

Good. Last question from Rickard. What can you do to turn around the underlying decline in U.S. sales, excluding FX and acquisitions? How much visibility do you have after 1 month of Q4 and into the holiday season?

[Emily Villatte, executive]

Do you want to comment on U.S. and I'll talk through the seasonality in Q4, Ross?

[Ross Adams, executive]

Yes. So U.S. is obviously a very exciting opportunity for us. We've signed some fantastic content and continue to attract great content. But if we look at kind of the macroeconomic environment and the downturn in the advertising revenue in general, we really noticed that in North America in the kind of July and August, but sort of pick up into September. So those are the only signals we can really give you, but we were pleased to see the pickup in North America in September.

[Emily Villatte, executive]

In terms of the Q4 and the visibility that we have, I will say that it is -- we're seeing quite short sales cycles right now. So a short amount of time between a booking and delivery of those ads. So that means that it's too early to call Q4 and of course, everyone in the industry is keen to see how budgets are placed in 2023 and see how those ad dollar budgets are coming through into 2023 as well. So it's too early to call Q4.

[Unknown Executive]

Good. Thank you. We have a few questions from Derek Laliberte at ABG. First one being, what type of impact on overall sales should we expect from the new agreement with Amazon? Do you think any other distributors or pod captures will follow in these footsteps?

[Ross Adams, executive]

I think, like I said earlier on, Amazon are a relatively new player to podcasting, and they're obviously hoping to grow their market share. But this has no impact on our ability to fulfill advertising campaigns at all. It's geared towards their Prime and Music Unlimited subscribers. And obviously, those who aren't paying one of those services will be serving ads again. So we can still serve ads against those users on their platforms that are their free users. So yes.

[Unknown Executive]

All right. Another question from Derek. In broad terms, what should we expect in IAC from the restructuring in Q4 versus Q3?

[Emily Villatte, executive]

Items effecting comparability?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes.

[Emily Villatte, executive]

Yes. So in terms of one-off costs, we did have SEK 8 million of one-off costs related to restructure in Q3. And we expect some further one-off costs to come through in Q4. So we will wrap up this program by the end of Q4. So the underlying cost base that we're stepping into 2023 will be visible from Q1 '23 onwards. But as noted as well in the report, we estimate that the annualized cost savings from this program will be around SEK 77 million.

[Ross Adams, executive]

I didn't actually answer Derek's second part of his question around Amazons. So I'll answer that now, about will others follow and do similar deals to the likes of what Amazon had done? Our BD department works very hard on partnerships, but it's too early to say if others will follow as a very new deal. So let's see.

[Unknown Executive]

Good. We have a question from Anders [ Eeksvang ]. Can you comment on the recent quarters with high growth in number of podcasts on the platform? What has created this uptick in growth in the recent quarters?

[Ross Adams, executive]

I think we focused since beginning of the year actually on our podcaster growth, the head, the heart, the tail. We believe there's an exciting opportunity with the heart and of course, the tail and how we start to really automate the Acast machine. And so it's just the hard work we've put in, in making us in a very attractive place, the more marketing and PR we get around us being fantastic for monetizing shows, the more shows are likely to join us, and you're seeing that in the results with 88,000 shares now. So we're very pleased with that, but it's a lot of hard work that goes into that.

[Unknown Executive]

Good. Our next few questions comes from Emily Johnson. Any color on current trading in October, November? How much visibility do you have on Q4 at the moment?

[Emily Villatte, executive]

So visibility on -- clearly, we have a good visibility on October and November, but we've also noted to Richard's earlier point that we are experiencing short sales cycles. So it is too early to call how the Q4 picture will look and but we're following this, of course, day to day. And we're also following how the budgets are laid in 2023. So we are -- we need a little bit more time to get more visibility on the full picture of Q4 and then how marketing budgets are laid for 2023.

[Unknown Executive]

Good. RPL was down in the quarter, but you said that it was because there were many more new listens in the quarter. On a like-for-like basis, I only have the listens that you monetize and ignoring the dilutive impact of new unmonetized listens, how is RPL trending?

[Emily Villatte, executive]

So RPL -- the underlying dynamics of how our revenue is built up has seen a similar pattern. If you go back and look at the slide, building up our revenues from the capital markets, the story in those slides showed that we had significant listens growth. We have had stable and increasing pricing over the years, and revenues historically have grown faster than listens. So in essence, what we have done is that we've been able to attract really commercial and valuable shows and we did become better and better at monetizing them, which has been fueled by increasing demand in the ad market and the proposition that we have. Now those underlying fundamentals have continued. We haven't seen material changes in neither in pricing. So that means that revenue is growing slower than listens, it's driving the reduced average revenue for this one. So what you can infer from us is that sell-through rates have continued to go down, but the other dynamics have remained the same. So over time, of course, the better we are, the attracting listeners and podcasters, the greater the capacity we have to service future demand as that comes back. So CPMs have been quite stable and sell-through rate has declined somewhat simply as a result of the very strong growth in listens.

[Unknown Executive]

One more question for Emily. Can you talk through the EBITDA bridge into 2023? Are there other pockets of savings outside the SEK 77 million that you've already flagged? Or does your EBITDA improvement come from holding the rest of the cost base flat while growing revenues.

[Emily Villatte, executive]

Clearly, we're looking at all of our costs, and we're -- all businesses go through budgeting exercises during the autumn. And we operate the 0-based budget at Acast. That means that we build a budget from scratch, and we look at every single piece of podcast that goes into it. So, of course, we have come through and announced our cost savings programs related to staff, but we're being very diligent in terms of how we operate our discretionary cost line as well. We should recall that we have welcomed the team at Podchaser, so that represents a new set of staff members coming into the business. They also have great prospects for growth and reaching profitability over time. And we are very comfortable with our goal of reaching profits in 2024. And if the market changes out there in 2023, then we will continue to adapt and review how we're facing.

[Unknown Executive]

Great. One more question. 10% of revenue is now programmatic. Can you remind us how the economics of programmatic differs to the other 90% of the business? Is that 10% skewed towards a certain part of the podcast distribution or evenly across head, heart and tail?

[Emily Villatte, executive]

So the dynamics of -- the way the programmatic ads work is that they're similar to a direct ad by, in terms of splits with creators. So we operate typically at 50-50 splits with the creators when it comes to programmatic sales.

The beauty of programmatic distribution is that they can both be targeted to our larger shows, but they can also be distributed across that heart and tail. But regardless of where those programmatic ads are distributed, we typically take a 50% [ take out ].

[Unknown Executive]

Good. One more question from Anders [ Eeksvang ] of curiosity, are you experiencing any advertising agencies or social media agencies begin to look into podcast advertising as a channel to work with and to offer their clients an alternative to, for example, decreasing effectiveness in other channels?

[Ross Adams, executive]

It's a good question. I mean, I think if you look at especially in downturn, you look at advertiser media schedules they'll be looking at the media that converts best from an ROI perspective. Podcasting has not out proved that it is fantastic for ROI and one of the best mediums you can use for ROI. So whilst normally traditional advertisers would turn back to traditional media, they're still looking for the most effective media out there. And therefore, we'll start to see more opportunities and advertisers who are seeking ROI and choosing forecasting as a medium. There's still a lot of new advertisers who never tried podcasting before. So there's still education process that happened, but very much so we expect to see some interesting opportunities as different sectors start to peak in the likes of recessions. And so yes, it's supposed to watch.

[Unknown Executive]

Great. There are no more questions posted at the moment. So I guess I'll just leave it to you for some final words, Ross.

[Ross Adams, executive]

Yes. Thank you very much for joining us. Of course, you can listen to this call as a podcast after this and follow us on our Investor channels as well, but we'll be speaking to you next quarter. Thanks very much.