Spie SA

PAR:SPIE

Earnings Call Transcript 2021-Q3

[Operator]

Hello, and welcome to the SPIE 9 months 2021 Results. My name is Jess, and I'll be your coordinator for today's event. [Operator Instructions]I will now hand over to your host, Gauthier Louette, Chairman and CEO, to begin today's call. Thank you.

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Yes. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is Gauthier Louette, and I'm very pleased to welcome you to this Q3 conference call for SPIE. And our results for the first 9 months of the year do confirm a strong rebound compared to 2020. I'm particularly pleased with the progress of our EBITA margin which now exceeds 2019 level with a good progress in Q3. Furthermore, we've been particularly active on the bolt-on M&A front as we have completed 7 acquisitions so far, totaling $252 million of annual revenue. But first, I would like to share with you some good examples of our expertise, in particular in helping customers to reduce their CO2 emissions. In Scotland, we work for the Heart, the oldest and most successful Football Club in Edinburgh, which is a customer since 2016. Recently, we placed 176 halogen floodlights by 56 LED lamps at their Tynecastle Park Stadium, first reducing energy consumption by 78% and avoiding 34 tons of CO2 emissions per year. With this, the stadium is now compliant with UEFA criteria. And believe it or not, the Heart has not been defeated at home since the new lights were installed. In Rostock, Germany, we're implementing a new high-voltage transfer station for a combined heat and power plant. This existing substation cannot support the new plant due to the very specific constraints in terms of energy supply. We are in charge of all steps from planning and commissioning to hand over of the new installations which includes sophisticated gas-insulated switch gas. As you know, Germany has embarked on a complete shift in its energy mix, requiring major changes to its entire transmission and distribution network. As the #1 service provider to the German grid, we are very well-positioned to support this transition. In the same vein, electrical vehicles are part of the solution to reduce CO2 emissions, and it requires massive investments in charging stations. In Rüsselsheim, in Germany, we're installing 500 charging points for the local Stadtwerke, including standard and fast chargers at 3 public car parks. This contract is a good example of how we can leverage on the framework agreement for network services. We have such an agreement with the Rüsselsheim Stadtwerke since 5 years, and we have been able to build on this existing agreement to offer the services of e-mobility. And in France, in the wake of COVID-19, air quality in commercial spaces is as crucial as it has ever been. SPIE France is deploying a cutting-edge digital turnkey solution that can destroy almost 100% of harmful viruses in the treated air. The solution handles everything from data collection to managing physical on-site operations. It is a good example of how by joining ICS and facility management expertise, we're able to innovate for the benefit of our customers. And now to the highlights. So key highlights for this 9 months. Group revenue was in line with precrisis level. EBITA margin stood above 2019 level. We delivered strong bolt-on M&A, focused on Germany and Central Europe and on ICT services. And on the back of this first 9 months, we further improved our full year outlook. Looking to the main figures. Our 9 months revenue is in line with precrisis level, while our EBITA margin is higher. Our 9 months organic growth was at plus 5.6%, total revenue growth was at plus 6.2%, and it is 0.4% above 9 months 2019 level. Our 9 months EBITA margin improved by 140 basis points compared to 2020, and it is 10 basis points above 2019. In Q3, our EBITA margin improvement was solid, up 80 basis points compared to 2020, and up 30 basis points versus 2019. I will elaborate later on the Q3 revenue evolution. So the 9 months revenue confirmed a strong rebound versus 2020. I'm now on Slide 10. Organic growth was up 5.6% year-on-year, driven by a strong rebound in France and the continued progress in Germany and in Central Europe. At constant ForEx, 9 months growth reached plus 6.5%, including a 0.9% contribution from acquisition, mainly from Germany and Central Europe, which, as you know, is a priority for our M&A strategy. And on Slide 11, taking a closer look at our Q3. Revenue was up 1% year-on-year at constant ForEx. It was slightly down organically by 1.5% while acquisitions contributed 2.5%. Activity levels were high in France and in Germany. Germany, in particular, at plus 0.2% organic, had a very demanding comparison basis with 4.6% organic growth in Q3 2020. Oil & Gas and Nuclear revenue rebounded was plus 5.6%. Revenue decreased organically by 11% in Northwestern Europe mainly due to lower commercial insulation activity in the U.K. as well as phasing impacts in telecom services in the Netherlands. And on Slide 12, our 9 months EBITA amounted to almost EUR 270 million. It was up 42.3% compared to the same period of 2020. EBITA margin reached 5.4%, 140 basis points above 9 months 2020. The good news is that we are now above 2019 level by 10 basis points at the end of September. This has enabled us to further improve our full year guidance to an EBITA margin above 2019 level at 6.1%. On Slide 13, bolt-on M&A. It is key to SPIE's value creation model. We have been very active since the beginning of the year with 7 acquisitions totaling EUR 252 million in full year revenue. This is well ahead of our initial target of EUR 200 million. In Germany and Central Europe, we acquired EUR 177 million of revenue with site acquisition in key segments such as automation systems, telecom networks, HVAC and tunnel systems. In France, we acquired EUR 75 million of revenue with 2 acquisitions of which a significant one in data center infrastructure, an area where we were already present, and it makes us quite a leader in this market. And maybe a word on our shareholding plan for 2021. It has been a resounding success. As you know, employee shareholding is a key component of our culture to engage our people towards our long-term performance objectives, and it is a strong element of people retention. Our latest plan, Share For You 2021, has brought 11,000 employees from 13 different countries who subscribe to the plan, and this compares to 6,100 last year. Notably, it includes 3,500 employees subscribing for the first time. Pending the final results, which will be announced in December, the estimated total investment from SPIE employees will be more than EUR 33 million and up to 2.5 million new shares will be issued in December. At the end of the year, employee and management will then represent close to 10% of SPIE's share capital. Now moving to our activity by segment and starting with France. France enjoyed a continued good momentum against a solid market backdrop. Organic growth was 13.6% over the first 9 months, and revenue was 1% above 9 months level. By segment, Tech FM is driven by growing customer needs in energy efficiency and digital solutions in the wake -- also the new regulation and forcing energy savings in French commercial buildings. Activity in telecom network and smart city services remain high, while commercial installation was robust. Industrial Services was still below pre-COVID levels, mainly due to our aeronautic customers. We see some element of improvement, and especially it does reflect it in our tendering activity and order intake in the Industrial segment. On Slide 17, Germany and Central Europe, they did deliver a dynamic growth. Total organic growth for the 9 months was at plus 3.4%, including 4.2% in Germany. The impact from external brokers was plus 2.8% from the 5 acquisitions already mentioned. After an excellent first half, revenue in Germany remained at a high level in Q3, stable compared to a very demanding 2020 comparison basis. We had a 4.6% organic growth in Q3 2020. Business levels in Transmission & Distribution Services which are key enablers of the energy transition, remain sustainably high. Technical Facility Management and Information & Communication Services were robust. And Building Technology and automation benefited from high activity levels in data centers. In the rest of the segment, Switzerland reported good growth, while Central European countries were down overall due to delays in high-voltage projects in Hungary and Slovakia. Regarding Northwestern Europe. The segment decreased organically by 2.6% over the first 9 months of 2021. And the disposal of U.K. mobile maintenance activities in March 2020 had a 1.1% impact. Revenue in the U.K. decreased in Q3, primarily due to low activity in commercial insulation and in particular, in data center, we have been fairly high at the same time last year. The rest of the U.K. business was broadly stable. And especially, we registered a very decent performance in Scotland. In the Netherlands, revenue in Telecom Services was temporarily impacted by optic fiber contract phasing and -- in system temporarily because we have good backlog going forward. Industry services remain somewhat subdued, while market trends were excellent in energy, in transport and in wet infrastructure. In Belgium, the building sector remained affected while demand was high in energy and Transport Infrastructure Services. We have registered good order intake, especially with -- in substations with the main Belgian operator, Elia, and it bodes well for the future. Now in Oil & Gas and Nuclear, on Slide 19. The Oil & Gas and Nuclear segment revenue grew organically by 9.9% in the first 9 months of this year, thanks to a 5.6% rebound in Q3. Currency movements accounted for minus 2.4% year-to-date, of course, primarily stemming from the euro-U.S. dollar variation. Oil & Gas services revenue rebounded in Q3, thanks to a slight improvement in the market backdrop and also from our side, a good commercial performance. After a strong H1, Nuclear services continued to grow in Q3 despite the ongoing workload reduction on the Flamanville EPR contract. As you have seen, the recent report published by RTE, France transmission grid operator, suggests that nuclear should remain a key component of the French energy mix in the coming 50 years with the number of traditional and also more innovative solutions coming to bear in the next years. So it is really good news for the long-term prospect of this activity. And now I will hand over to Michel, who will comment on our financial performance.

[Michel Delville]

Thank you, Gauthier, and good morning, everyone. I'm on Slide 21. As Gauthier already pointed out, we achieved a strong rebound in all key figures for the first 9 months of the year. Revenue reached EUR 5,031 million, so up 6.2% and above 2019 level, in line with our full year guidance. EBITA was EUR 270 million, up 42% above 2019 level as well. And EBITA margin was at 5.4%, up 140 basis points compared to 2020 and up 10 basis points above 2019 level. In Q3 alone, as already mentioned, revenue growth was softer, but EBITA margin improved significantly. Revenue reached EUR 1,735 million, up 1.1%. EBITA was EUR 110 million, up 14.4% and above 2019 level as well. EBITA margin was at 6.4%, up 80 basis points compared to 2020 and up 30 basis points above 2019 level. Let's have a look now on the revenue bridge on Slide 22. So our revenue increased by 6.2% over the first 9 months. This takes into account a 6.5% increase at constant ForEx, of which plus 5.6% organic growth. The impact from acquisition was plus 1.1%, and it will be mechanically more significant in Q4, considering the phasing of our 2021 acquisitions. I'll remind you that the negative minus 0.2 impact from disposal is due to the disposal of the U.K. mobile maintenance activities last year. On Slide 23, we detect the quarterly development of our EBITA margin. First, it shows the usual seasonal pattern of our EBITA margin, which increases quarter after quarter. Second, it gives you the comparison with the 2019 margins. During the first 2 quarters, 2021 margins were similar to those of 2019. In Q3, the 2021 margin reached 6.4%, a 30 basis point improvement compared to 2019, leading to a 10 basis point improvement over the first 9 months of the year that you can see on the right side on the chart. So compared to 2019, we are delivering a remarkable improvement in Northwestern Europe, thanks to our reorganization in the U.K. and our performance plan in the Netherlands, both conducted last year. At the same time, margin gaps with 2019 continue to narrow in France and in Germany and Central Europe. These trends evidence a clear potential for group margin to increase further in 2020. This concludes my part, and I will now hand back to Gauthier.

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Yes. Thank you, Michel. So as you see on Slide 25, we further improved our 2021 outlook as we now expect group revenue at or above 2019 level, EBITA margin above 2019 level at 6.1%. We were obviously targeting a 2019 level of 6%. Full year revenue to be acquired through bolt-on acquisition were in excess of EUR 250 million, and a strong reduction in the group servers expected at around 2% at year-end. Beyond 2022, there are clear skies for SPIE. Our positioning as a key enabler of the energy transition is opening vast businesses opportunities already visible in our dynamic order intake, which in certain areas, is even 2-digit growth. And this will definitely enhance our growth as soon as 2022 and our margin. Regarding margin, the improvement we already see in 2021 bodes well for what we will expect for 2022. And I remind you that we are keeping in mind a 6.5% target in not distant future. Now this presentation will not be complete without a few words on ESG. On Slide 26, as you know, last September, we had an Investor Day focused on ESG to emphasize how the energy transition is at the core of our services. We are pioneer in the implementation of the EU taxonomy for sustainable activities, and 41% of our 2000 (sic) [ 2021 ] revenue was taxonomy-aligned. For 2025, we target that 50% of our revenue will be taxonomy aligned. And beyond the taxonomy, we can evidence that circa 70% of our activities contribute to the energy transition. Most of SPIE's customers are stepping up their efforts and commitments towards decarbonized energy, energy efficiency and sustainable mobility. These efforts will be compounded by European stimulus plans that aim at making Europe more sustainable, more digital and more resilient. This is and will translate into a favorable market momentum for multi-technical services, and it will support our organic growth in the coming years. And to finish on Slide 27, let me remind you our CSR commitments regarding carbon footprint, safety at work and gender diversity. So we target to reduce our greenhouse gas emission Scope 1 and 2 by 25% by 2025. Regarding Scope 3 emissions, which primarily result from procured goods and services, we target in 2025 60% of such emissions coming from suppliers having set ambitious carbon footprint reduction targets. These 2 targets are currently being validated through the science-based target initiative. With regard to safety, it is and remains our top priority. And the good safety management policy plays a particular focus on preventing severe accidents. We aim to half the number of employees severe accident in 2025. However, our true and obviously only acceptable target should be 0 severe accident. And finally, regarding diversity policy, we target to add 25% more women to key management position by 2025 through internal promotion and recruitment. As you know, CSA commitments are not an option, they are shared within all our organizations, and we strongly believe that strong CSA commitments offer a solid foundation for long-term sustainable value creation. So this concludes our presentation, and we are now ready to take your questions.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] And the first question comes from the line of Ebrahim Homani from CIC.

[Ebrahim Homani, Financial Analyst]

I have 2 questions, if I may. The first one is about Northwestern Europe activity. Can you give us more details on these activities? And what is the part of revenue generated in The Netherlands. The second one is about your employees. Do you face any difficulties in hiring new employees? Or is it okay now for you?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Well, regarding Northwestern activities, the impacts I've mentioned, they cater for roughly a loss of EUR 20 million in revenue. And again, U.K., the whole year is roughly EUR 250 million and Netherlands is 3x as much. Well, clearly, in the U.K., we had a strong drop. And we did trim down the business significantly in the last 18 months. And on top of that, which was not the plan is we had a much lower activity in data center in Q3, and it will be the same in Q4 as opposed to last year. However, the fact that we have really worked on the structure in the U.K., allows us to work with a lower volume and still maintain a small margin and positive cash generation. So the market is what it is, and our position is not easy on the U.K. market with clearly a very subdued commercial installation activity right now, but we are managing to deal with the situation without creating a loss in U.K., which is a vast improvement compared to the previous year. Regarding Netherlands, as I said, it's -- we -- the industry activity is not as strong as it was in the past. But again, we see positive signs going forward. And we have a good level of activity with TenneT. It could have been a bit better, but TenneT had a few issue in terms of processing projects, but the backdrop is very strong and really completely in line energy transition, and we see good activity in the balance of infrastructure. So really, the main issue is phasing of optic fiber. And again, we have a good backlog and customers talking to us with -- for further work next year. So I think next year we'll be very active in optic fiber. Clearly, there was a [ lull ] which we see in this quarter. Regarding employee attraction and employee retention, it is a very important issue, and that is also why we insist and we work on employee shareholding plans because it's really a good way to keep people and create a strong bond with the company, and I was very pleased with the success of this plan. This year, in certain countries, we are more than doubled the number of participants. So it's is really gaining momentum. Altogether, we are dealing with the situation. We -- the backdrop is clearly a shortage of technical skills. So it's -- that's why it is very important, first, to keep the ones you have and make sure that they are happy and at ease with the company and also to attract new ones. So far, as I said, we are dealing with the situation. The fact that we are market leaders in a number of countries does help. The fact that we are a pure player, it does help as well because really people recognize that they are at the core of our business, and we also, through various plans, we share the value creation with them. So we are doing okay, but we have to be very, very conscious of the issue. This is also why we are stepping up our policies of apprentices. As you know, we are roughly 5% apprentices, and we're really taking -- paying a lot of attention to that, make sure that the apprentices stay once they have completed their course. And they do stay with us.

[Operator]

The next question comes from the line of Charles Scotti from Kepler.

[Charles-Louis Scotti]

Yes. I've got 3 questions, if I may. The first one, your full year guidance suggests a return to 2019 sales level. And then suggest a strong Q4 performance, a 5% like-for-like despite tougher comps. What makes you confident to achieve such sales rebound in Q4? My second question on the phasing of telecommunication contract, that's called fiber rollout in Netherlands. Is this due to client decision? Or is it because you lack fiber or you lack equipment and components? And more generally speaking, are you impacted negatively by the shortage of components in your business? And do you think it might affect your 2022 performance? And finally, third question on stimulus plan. Do you see the first benefit of the stimulus plan across Europe? Or is it too early?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Yes. Thank you. So regarding Q4, we do expect continued good trends in France and in Germany. We are looking at the continued improvement in oil and gas services. And we think that the Northeastern Europe will be sequentially better. And so this is what we what we see for Q4. And in terms of margin, we see continued good trend in Q4 in the same vein as what we have seen at -- in Q3. Regarding the FTTH contracts in The Netherlands, it is linked with customer decision and their own pace of processing the tenders of the awards. It is not linked with shortage of fiber. We have not experienced this so far. Generally, the issue of shortage of spools, we have been affected in some areas. It is more with issues. I could give a few example. As you know, Cisco is the first supplier of SPIE. And in certain areas, Cisco has been hard put to come up with deliveries. But -- we also -- we have an example with Orange with Cisco, we are installing 5G antennas on pylon supply by Orange. And there is a bit of a bottleneck there. What happened is that they're trying to change the design and accommodate with the existing pylons that they have or the deliveries that they get. But yes, it has brought a bit of attention in this area. And it does happen, for instance, over the summer, where we were had to decline bidding for an automation job for an automotive company in France because we knew that we were not able to get the automation components in time, and there was a very, very slow time frame for this project during the initial term. So a few minor things here and there. So far, not too much of a disruption, and we've been able to cope with this. And then the stimulus plan. Yes, it is -- what happens now is we see much more tendering initiatives for customers linked with a number of topics deriving from the stimulus plan. So for instance, energy efficiency in public buildings in France, we see a lot of e-mobility. It is all the rage right now. And also a number of projects pertaining to hydrogen. This is more recent, but we start to see some discussion with the customers and coming tendering activity in this area. So I think the stimulus plan is well in the minds of our customers, and it should translate in activity in 2022.

[Operator]

The next question comes from the line of Oscar Val from JPMorgan.

[Oscar Val Mas, Analyst]

Just 2 questions from me. The first one is a follow-up on employee scarcity. Could you comment on what level of wage inflation you're seeing and the ability you have to pass that through?And then the second question is, you mentioned e-mobility is growing. Could you give us a sense of how large that is in revenue terms today? And how quickly e-mobility and EV charging is growing?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Well, regarding inflation, first, the wage inflation is within limits. So we're talking 2% to 2%, 3% compared to maybe slightly less last year. So it is it is well within limits at the moment. And we have a number of countries which are impacted by a collective labor agreement with IG Metall or with Fidelitone, with [ Fluigetec ] depending on the countries or some industrial groups in The Netherlands. But it remains reasonable in a couple of percent. Sometimes, as I say in the negotiations which are taking place now. This is not a big issue. It is always passed to the customers either through indexation or formulas or because our portfolio rotates quickly. And when we budget for the next year, we will always take a provision for salary inflation. So it has -- it has never been too much of an issue. The issue is more to find the people. And clearly, some areas, our own customers would attract our people, which obviously has already existed. It is probably intensifying a bit right now. And generally, inflation points to pass through. I think we answered the question several times in the previous years. And I don't think we have seen any impact on margin or on our margin progression. So it's -- we are here in the same spot that we have been in the past. So no major concern regarding this. Regarding e-mobility, right now, it is still below 1% of our revenue, but it's growing, and it's growing fast. It's growing double digit, and we do see an acceleration of the demand from our customers. So it's -- and it's really pertaining to all type of activities. I gave the example recently of a contract we gained for the [ lease that was starting ] in The Netherlands where we are going to install more than 1,000 charging points on the Lück site of, for example, of the starter for their own use. So it's -- we are staying with a number of commercial buildings where we -- they want more and more charging points. And clearly, we are bidding on the fast chargers, on all the development of charging points, longer highways, et cetera. As it happens, we thing we just -- I say think because there's a 2 weeks retention period that many we have won a new contract in this area as recently as yesterday. So it is a fast-growing market. And again, it is fairly technical. And especially when you're talking fast chargers, supercharges, and we are in a very good position there.

[Operator]

The next question comes from the line of Eric Lemarié from Bryan Garnier.

[Eric A. Lemarié, Research Analyst]

Yes. The first one on France. In Q3, do you see any sort of slowdown of the business? Because it looks like the organic growth turned slightly negative in Q3 or at least when we look at the 9 months versus 2019, it is negative while it was positive at the end of June. I don't know if there is something there. Second question on the U.K. and the difficulties you mentioned regarding data centers. Is there a specific explanation behind that? Because usually when we talk about data center, it's always positive news. And the third question regarding your top line performance in Q4 this year. I understand the U.K. difficulties will last in the last quarter. But do you confirm the phasing issue in The Netherlands will disappear in Q4 this year?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

So regarding France, altogether, the underlying trends are good. We are comparing -- we have -- first, we had a positive organic growth in Q3 this year in France compared to Q3 2021. So we had the organic growth of 1.4%. And compared to 2019 -- in 2019, in France we had a, at Q3, a growth of 7%. So we're organic. And so comparing with a very strong Q3. And as you will remember, 2019 was strong in France. We delivered positive organic growth of 5% and 7% at Q3. So the element of comparison compared to 2019 is very -- yes. In U.K., it is linked to 1 customer. We tend to do every year 1 data center for this customer. Now the customer has been bought over by another company. The whole team has changed from customer side and they decided to try a new supplier. So clearly, it happened very, very rapidly. So our plans are well aligned to get another data center as usual every year. And the plan wasn't wrong. And so this is very, very specific evidence. So now what we're trying to do obviously to redeploy the competencies we have towards other customers, also building on the relationship we have with data center operators elsewhere in Europe. But since the U.K. is relatively small nowadays, I would say the impact is insignificant. And for [ contract ] phasing in The Netherlands in Q4, yes, we think that the trend will be more favorable for the optic fiber contracts starting. And as I said, also very good prospect for next year in this area. So we're really looking at a pattern from Q4 onwards.

[Operator]

The next question comes from the line of Rory McKenzie from UBS.

[Rory Edward McKenzie, European Support Services Analyst]

It's Rory here. Firstly, great to hear about the home form of parts of Midlothian. My first question is actually whether you can install those magic lights at my team as well. That would be great, given how we've been doing. Anyway, my first actual question is on, again, the kind of organic revenue momentum. Thanks for detail on Northwest Europe and France. Maybe just in Germany and Central Europe. You were up kind of 4% to 5% through H1 compared to 2019. That's now flattish in Q3. I appreciate comps are moving around. But given the amount of new work and expansion in that market, I'm surprised there's not more kind of sequential growth still ongoing? So is this just timing? And can you maybe talk about the new contracts you see ramping up into next year? And then my second question is on the Q3 margin expansion. I think it implies about a 70% incremental margin on the kind of small amount of revenue growth you saw, which is, of course, very unusual. So can you just help us understand how much was mix of that drop in Northwest Europe you've described? And what the kind of underlying productivity pricing or cost improvements were? Just trying to work out a sustainable drop through or sustainable margin level is as we look forward?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Yes. So regarding Germany, again, last year, we had a very strong Q3 in Germany. And so we had a growth of 4% in -- or even a bit more, like 4.6% in Q3 2020. And so obviously, the comparison -- comparator is fairly high as well. So now we always have some element of sequencing, but the trend remains strong. And altogether, compared to 2019, we have a growth in Q3 of 4.9%. So 4.6% compared to 2020, 4.9% compared to 2019. So the trends are strong in Germany. And we have some variation from one quarter to the next because you have some [ friction ] in the certain types of contract. But altogether, the trends remain strong and are strong going forward. And we are really looking at further growth in 2022 in Germany with a lot of new things coming to plan. Regarding the margin, I think it is clearly a lot of the improvement is coming from Northeastern Europe, and this is on the back of the improvement plans we had implemented last year. We mentioned last year that we are working a lot on the reorganization in the U.K. and adapting to a new level, dealing with the sale of the mobile and then resizing all the structure in the U.K. It does their full term so compared to a loss-making business at the same time last year, we are slightly positive now and with much reduced volume. So it really show that all the efforts have really been fruitful and successful. And same goes for The Netherlands. We did trend down quite significantly last year at the overhead level and also in the industrial part and it brings good improvement in the EBIT. And it might be worth mentioning also that the FTTH project, we are tendering right now are being tendered at very satisfying margin. So really a lot of improvement coming from Northwestern Europe. And as regard with France and Germany, we are constantly reducing the gap we still have compared to last year due to the hit of the [ sanitary ] crisis. And we think that this gap will be totally offset by the end of the year and which bodes well for further progress on margin in 2022 in both countries because this is what I see.

[Rory Edward McKenzie, European Support Services Analyst]

And is The Netherlands your highest-margin country now?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

No, no, no. This one is -- we're trading at, let's say, 5.5 or something like that. And -- but it's not the end of the story, but this is where we are now, and we're looking at further improvement for next year. Now best France and Germany are above 6 and then obviously, we still have very high margins in nuclear and in oil and gas.

[Operator]

The next question comes from the line of Guillaume de Villelume from BNP Paribas.

[Guillaume de Villelume]

I have just 1 question on M&A. Will you -- will you update your target -- midterm target to acquire EUR 200 million per year to maybe EUR 300 million? Or is that something possible?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Well, it's not out of reach on a given year. I think more [ digital ], as you've seen, where we're closer to EUR 260 million, and it's not impossible that we track and I know we did before the end of the year, and we have still a negotiation for bolt-on acquisition in Germany and Central Europe area. And going forward, I think that on what we'd like to do is obviously keep a very strong focus on Germany and Central Europe, but also maybe a bit more active in France again. So I'm not saying that the guidance will be EUR 300 million for next year, but with also a very much improved leverage, I think we could probably look at something probably midway as normative guidance going forward.

[Guillaume de Villelume]

Okay. And maybe in terms of prices, do you see inflation? Or is it still stable?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

There is some inflation on salaries as we mentioned, which remains.

[Guillaume de Villelume]

Sorry, sorry. Inflation on prices and M&A...

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

No, no. But as you see, the multiples we have been dealing with are remaining in our usual range. So we keep the discipline. And so we really work on the usual range. No change there.

[Operator]

The next question comes from the line of Nicolas Tabor from Stifel.

[Nicolas Tabor, Analyst]

The first one would be just to have an idea of the price versus volume you had in the organic growth over the first 9 months of the year. Then regarding the net working capital, can we have -- I don't know -- I know it's not the H1 results here, but do you have an idea on how that is progressing? And is it on track for what you're seeing for the full year? Then regarding the stimulus plan. So you were guiding during the CMD of an acceleration of plus 0.5% to 1.5% organic growth from the new trend -- Should we expect that to materialize from 2022, maybe more H2 2022? Or do you have some visibility with the tenders ongoing at the moment? And then finally, on Oil & Gas and Nuclear, how should we think about it for Q4, further slowdown in Flamanville for the [ revolving ] oil and gas? I mean, what's the trend you're seeing at the moment?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Well, it's impossible to do the price when you make the site. And we were doing so many different things, and there is not a unit we can use to split the top line between the 2 impacts. So I cannot answer this question. I answered the question in the past. It's just impossible in our type of services. I will turn to the questions -- to the third part of your question, and then this is the working capital to Michel. So regarding this stimulus plan, yes, we think it will have an impact definitely on 2022 for the reason I just mentioned, and we see the tenders upcoming in this area. So -- so yes, we are -- the 0.5% to 1.5% incremental organic growth. We've mentioned we do see that this would be reflected in our targets for 2022. And for Oil & Gas and Nuclear in Q4, I think we'll have -- it will still be growing the EPR work close or it is a constant decline, but there are many other things that are happening in the Nuclear segment right now. In Oil & Gas also is also positively oriented. So we'll see further growth in Q4.

[Michel Delville]

On the working capital, and Nicolas, as you know, we don't publish the balance sheet at quarters, but I can tell you that we are on track. I think this is the -- your question, are we still on track? The answer is yes. If you remember, we were at minus 22 days at end of June. And we were at minus 37 days end of last year, excluding the postponement of social charges and taxes. So our goal is to be better than last year in the underlying performance. And this is fully in line with the confirmation of our guidance for the leverage. So what is important for us is to get to a leverage of 2. We were 2.4 last year. So we are on track. And of course, the effort is maintained. And we hope to be able to -- and we expect to be able to give you good news when we publish our full year results.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Patrick Jousseaume from Societe Generale.

[Patrick Jousseaume, Head of Mid and Small caps Europe Research]

Can you hear me?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Yes.

[Patrick Jousseaume, Head of Mid and Small caps Europe Research]

Okay. Perfect. So 3 questions on my side. First question regarding U.K. You mentioned in the past that it was a sort of dilemma, this activity in the U.K. with a lot of concern and a small part of your revenue. So could you elaborate a bit on that? Second question regarding France. You have booked a EUR 9 million of cost. Is it what we should have for the full year? And finally, regarding your guidance to come back to a level of activity comparable with 2019. In 2020, the organic decrease was minus 5%, if I am not wrong, So this suggests that you need 5.3% over the full year for coming back to the level of 2019. Is that right? Or are there, let's say, moving parts that may make my calculation wrong?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

So regarding U.K., yes, it is now part of the revenue. This is not -- it's no longer a leader -- And you see, again, we have 3 bids in the U.K. We have Scotland, which is doing well at a positive margin. We have -- we have our facility business, which is also doing well. And then we have commercial installation, which is having a hard time. But as you see, I mean a good 60% of the business is very robust, resilient, stabilized. And commercialization, we are able to deal with reduced level of activity. And it is more a market issue the 3-year, than internal issue at the moment. So we keep this dilemma in mind as always. You always have to consider the timing well. And so far, we think it is not the right time to make any sort of decision.Regarding the cost, we're looking at EUR 9 million cost for net to be for the full year, and there's nothing else coming. And for 2019, so we -- in terms of revenue comparison, as you know, we give a guidance of total revenue, including scope FX annex and the foreign exchange, not organic growth compared to 2019. And so this is -- our guidance has been done, and we are still on track, and there is no other change in this regard.

[Operator]

The next question comes from the line of Christophe Chaput from ODDO.

[Christophe Chaput, Analyst]

The question for me regarding acquisition has already been asked. One remains for me on organic regarding 2022 because it seems that the backlog is strong or, let's say, robust, plus you will have the recovery plan. So would you say at the end of the day that the organic should be above 2% or above 3%? Any insight regarding that would be very appreciated.

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

So we are really in the midst of working on our budget for next year. As you know, it is a bottom-up exercise, starting in September in the local branches and we got that. And so we'll be reviewing this in the weeks to come. So a bit early to say. But generally, the figures you are mentioning, you have been mentioning, do not seem out of the ballpark. But again, we have to really well understand where is our backlog in the line and what does trend look like. But definitely, we're looking at improving organic growth in 2020.

[Operator]

The next question comes from the line of Peter Testa from One Investments.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

I guess -- and related to the last point, you've obviously commented on the stimulus impact coming through. I was wondering if just focusing on France and Germany, if you could give a sense of what's going on in the broader sense on backlog and pipeline. And I have a second question.

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

I mean in terms of backlog, for instance, in The Netherlands, we will be looking at a good backlog for next year. And again, we have some optic fiber projects paying us. And so my comment in terms of the backlog was not focused on France and Germany. It pertains to the group.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

My question was more on France and Germany. Sorry, I understood you were giving a group comment, but just specifically France and Germany, please.

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Well, definitely in France and Germany, we're really building a good backlog for next year in terms of size and in terms of margin. So it's -- these are obviously the 2 largest operations within SPIE. And both of them, we're looking at -- we're planning for decent organic growth, margin improvement, and this on the back of an evidenced strong backlog.

[Peter Testa, Analyst]

Right. Okay. And the other question is, please, was just on employee count. I was wondering, again, more focusing on France and Germany, if you could give any sense of what the sequential net employee count has been in Q3 versus Q2? And maybe other comment on what your hiring intentions are at this stage given your comments on stimulus. Are you starting to try and push harder on recruitment? Or any comment, please?

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Well, we -- the headcount in France and Germany, it's -- we are roughly at 20,000 in France, 13,000 in Germany. And the headcount is growing at a time in those countries. We are -- every year at SPIE -- even last year, last year, we were recruiting in the range of 3,000 before. This year, we're looking at recruiting in the range of 4,000, 4,500. So it is a constant exercise to recruit people to cope with the growth and also to replace people leaving and natural attrition, et cetera. The resignation rate is lower, and we're looking at 5%; 5% to 6% resignation rate. But -- and it doesn't change dramatically. On the contrary, it has decreased this year in Germany. So well, this is the order of magnitude of the people flow we have every year.

[Operator]

There are no further questions in the queue. So I will hand the call back to your host for some closing comments.

[Gauthier Louette, Chairman of the Board of Directors & CEO]

Well, thank you very much for attending this conference. As you see, we have -- we have strong results for Q3. The slight decrease in organic growth should not be a worry. Again, it has very a specific and time-limited reasons. And we're really looking at a strong backlog building up for 2022 and really good prospects for next year, both in the level of activity, in further margin improvement and also strong bolt-on acquisition going forward. So I think we're in good shape. And as I always say, it's really a good time to be an electrical engineer. Thank you very much for your attention. Have a good day.

[Operator]

Thank you for joining today's call. You may now disconnect your lines.