Quadient SA

PAR:QDT

Earnings Call Analysis

Earnings Call Transcript 2022-Q3

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Good evening and good afternoon to all of you, and thank you very much for joining this call to discuss Quadient sales performance and the third quarter and the first 9 months of 2021. I'm Geoffrey Godet, CEO of Quadient. I am joined on this call by Laurent Du Passage, our CFO. During this call, I will be referring to the slide presentation that can be downloaded from our Investor Relations website. It complements the press release that we have published today after close of trading. So starting with today's agenda on Slide 3. I will first provide you with an overview of Quadient's key sales and business achievements for the first 9 months of 2021. As you will see, our 9-month revenue performance was strong with organic growth above 7%. We have continued to successfully execute Quadient's Back to Growth strategy across all our core solutions and geographies during the period, thanks mainly to a few points. The first one is a continuous strong commercial momentum across all solutions with a large number of new customer wins in the first 9 months of the year. The second point, an accelerated shift to subscription-based model across both software and Parcel Locker Solutions. And the third point is we have continued synergies between businesses in line with our strategy. Then Laurent will provide you with a more detailed review of our 9-month sales performance. Next, I will share with you our updated outlook for full year 2021. And finally, I will be happy to take your question with Laurent. Moving to Slide 5. We are pleased with the strong sales performance we achieved in the first 9 months, as I mentioned earlier, delivering organic revenue growth in excess of 7% year-over-year. As already mentioned, at the time of our H1 result announcement, part of this performance reflects a favorable comparison basis versus H1 last year due, as you know, to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic and related lockdowns. But more importantly, this is also the result of all the strategic decisions we implemented last year in the deepest moment of the health crisis by financially maintaining our marketing and go-to-market capabilities as well as our innovation efforts in order to fully benefit from the economic recovery. So naturally, I take this opportunity to thank all Quadient employees around the world for their resilience, hard work and full commitment to supporting our customers. Before presenting in more details Quadient's key business achievements, I just want to share with you some key numbers to assess the strength of our performance so far. So starting with intelligent communication automation, our software solution, in line with our strategy of building an even more recurring SaaS cloud business model, our subscription-related revenue increased by more than 20%. Let me repeat, more than 20% growth. This growth was driven by SaaS and volume-based solutions for small, medium-sized and large customers with an even higher growth rate, of course, our recently acquired cloud-based financial automation solution. I'm referring to our account receivable and account payable acquisitions. Our software commercial momentum has also remained very strong with a gain of more than 2,000 net new customers in the first 9 months of the year and most of which, thanks to our cross-sell, with our mail-related sales channel. This net new customer gains has even accelerated in our third quarter over Q2 and even Q1 this year. Moving to Parcel Locker Solution, we posted a strong 9 months performance with an organic growth of 22.5%. This reflects a sustained increase in hardware sales that was mainly thanks to the completion of the Lowe's U.S. rollout in the first half of the year, and it also reflects the contribution from our subscription-related revenue, thanks to the expansion of our global network, with more than 2,200 new installations in the first 9 months of this year and bringing our total installed base over 15,500 Parcel Lockers for the first time. Lastly, regarding mail-related solution, we recorded a sustained growth in hardware sales of 17.6% and mainly reflecting the strong recovery we experienced in particular in North America and a good traction with the new customer acquisition so far this year. So we achieved a strong revenue performance overall for the first 9 months of 2021 and taking into account a much higher comparison basis for the third quarter, our Q3 performance was softer than in H1 and fully in line with our expectation. As you will see in the next slide, our commercial momentum was strong in the third quarter. So moving to Slide 6. Our cloud-based software business continues to grow. I'm proud of our team and thankful to our growing base of customers and partners who trust us. In the third quarter only, we added over 800 net new customers to our intelligent communication automation software business. This means that we acquired and signed an average of 13 new software contracts each business day in the third quarter alone. This acceleration in net new customers gain compared to Q1 and even Q2. To be specific, out of these, more than 800 net new software customers, we gained more than 180 of them new customers from the financial automation solution in the third quarter alone. And this is also the result of the great traction that we experienced with our account payable and account receivable solution as our customers naturally increasingly look to automate their financial processes. The usage of our cloud-based solution increased in Q3 across the board. Communication volume with our recently announced Impress solution and the volume of our process payments resulted in a combined growth of more than 26% in platform usage in the third quarter versus the second quarter of this year. Thanks to the synergies in our product portfolio and our sales organization, I want to remind you that 60% of those net new software customers are coming from the cross-selling of our MRS channel. Most of these customers are existing mailing customers, which opted to use our software technology to address their digital needs with Quadient. And I think this is just a further evidence of the value that our software portfolio brings to our mailing customers on the one hand, but it also demonstrates the strong capability of our mail-related solutions sales professionals that are able to cross sell software and hardware into their existing customer base. Additionally, I wanted to point out that we recently hosted our flagship customer event called Inspire Days, and we had a record level of attendance this year with over 2,200 participation in registration. We had a presentation from analysts, customers, partners and obviously Quadient experts on the value of optimizing customer communications and experiences. Our effort to help companies digitize their processes and their communication have been further recognized on the market as Quadient has recently ranked as one of the largest French software companies by consultancy firm EY and the professional software industry association, Numeum. The last point I wanted to make on this slide is that I have already flagged, the more than 20% growth we recorded in our subscription-related revenue in the first 9 months of the year. Another way I think to look at it is to see the accelerated growth we experienced and our annual recurring revenue or ARR. Our ARR grew from EUR 123 million at the end of the last year to EUR 141 million at the end of the third quarter. This is a strong achievement, I think, which also reflects an ARR growth acceleration in the third quarter alone. So moving to Slide 7. As we move to our mail-related solution, in addition to several countries, we recently expanded our iX and cloud-based, what we call, S.M.A.R.T. solution in Canada. The solution revolutionize mail center by combining basically leading-edge technology to improve the customer interaction and their business processes. Those innovative products are allowing us to have many success across our regions and also recently in government, in health care and in insurance verticals. We are able to do so by combining our innovative hardware solution and our ICA software offerings. As you could see on the chart, the share of this new generation S.M.A.R.T. device grew from 4.9% of the installed base at the end of last year to 11.3% at the end of the third quarter. Another example of the synergies is our recently acquired 10 new high-volume mail services providers as new customers in the third quarter, and most of them are also leveraging our ICA software solutions with Inspire or Impress. This is another differentiating synergy in our go-to-market to combine again our hardware and software offering. These new contracts are across all major regions, including France, Belgium, United Kingdom and the United States. As we focus also on customer satisfaction and our relationship with our customers, we are very happy to announce that Quadient's growth in MRS sales significantly outpace the key market players for the first 9 months of 2021. This is a great achievement by our teams. Moving to Slide 8. We are also proud to announce today for the first time that Quadient has exceeded over 15,100 Parcel Locker installation, thanks to more than 16 -- 600, sorry, new units being deployed in the third quarter alone. We are seeing great activity across our 4 verticals and new geographies. We are also benefiting from the adoption of our innovation like our open network and our Parcel Locker Lite solution. Take an example in Japan, we continue to make progress with more than 6,200 units installed so far and over 200 new installs of Parcel Locker Lite deployed just in Q3 again. As we move into the retail vertical, if we take the example of Japan, we have exciting project related to people now being able to pick up prescription medicine in our Parcel Locker Solutions. So we are also pleased to announce that we recently won a very and key competitive tender with Decathlon in France. And lastly, the Lowe's project, also a retail distribution organization expansion, has now also been completed in Canada for an additional 179 stores. If we now go to the property management industry, we now have over 5,600 units installed in the United States alone. And what's more impressive, I think, is that we see obviously a continuous growth in the usage of the U.S. network with more than 10 million parcels that went through our network in the third quarter of 2021 alone. And why is this important? This represents an 18% growth over Q3 last year, which was already a peak in utilization related to the usage of e-commerce during COVID. We also are seeing good momentum in U.K. and France in this new segment. If we take another segment, the universities and corporate segment now, we obviously have synergies with our MRS customer base and sales channels, and we continue to benefit from a strong traction in the U.S. with more than 330 units installed and new deals signed in France and the U.K. again. Last, but not least, we continue to see a very strong pipeline of large tenders and such across all region, which I believe bodes pretty well for the future, not mentioning all the large contract we have already secured and we have not yet to be -- that have not been fully deployed. So this concludes my review of Quadient's key business highlights that I wanted to share with you, and I am now handing over to Laurent to discuss about our 2021 9 months sales performance.

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

Thank you, Geoffrey. Good afternoon and good morning, everyone. I am Laurent Du Passage. I am Quadient's Chief Financial Officer, and I will walk you through our 2021 9 months revenue figures. Starting with Slide 10, Quadient's Q3 2021. Revenue is almost stable compared to Q3 2020 when looking at the organic growth at the center of the graphic, Hence, when you remove on the left side of the chart, the gray bar, a negative scope effect for EUR 12 million, which is mostly relative to the portfolio reshaping we've been going through with the impact of the divestment of Australia and also automated packing systems business at the end of H1. And explaining on the right-hand side of the chart, the gray bar, favorable currency effect for the first time of the year due to the dollar increase against euro, which amounts to EUR 2 million. This organic stability is all the more remarkable as we had a strong comparison basis in Q3 last year, particularly for Parcel Lockers. And while in ICA, this year, we have further accelerated our transition to SaaS. This has been allowed by particularly resilient mail-related solution evolution this quarter. Now when moving to next slide, Slide 11 where we can see the same revenue bridge for the cumulative 9 months period, where organic growth stays very strong for the group at plus 7.2% year-to-date. Each 1 of our 3 solutions and additional operations contributing by EUR 12 million to EUR 13 million of incremental organic revenue to date. Total reported revenue stands at EUR 752 million for the 9 months. It's up EUR 9 million versus last year reported revenue as our more than EUR 50 million of organic revenue growth is offset by EUR 25 million of scope and EUR 18 million of currency impact. I will now walk you through each of the segments in the next slides. Moving to Slide 12, ICA, our software division, accounts for EUR 147 million revenue for the 9 months, and it has grown by 9.8% over the period. The demand for cloud-based solution is high, and it's reflected by the 30% SaaS growth in small and medium businesses, which includes the 69% growth in Financial Automation Solutions, accounts receivable, account payable. For large accounts, subscription-related revenue grew as well by 13% year-on-year, and these trends result in ICA revenue mix continuing to move more and more towards subscription-related revenue from 60% back in 2020 to 67% just in the 9 months of 2021 and even 69%, if you look at just Q3, and it has a continued year-on-year growth of 20% when you look at this absolute value of subscription-related revenue. And to the opposite, we are showing a lower perpetual license revenue that now only accounts for 14% of our software revenue over the 9 months, although one large deal was booked in Q2, as we mentioned during our H1 result. This mainly explains the dynamic by quarter at the bottom left, where you see Q3 revenue evolution in line with Q1 level in terms of growth, plus 6%, while it was particularly dynamic in terms of bookings of subscription, and it's not yet directly affected in the top line. But when you look at the annual recurring revenue, it has significantly increased in 3 months, as shown earlier by Geoffrey. Moving to Slide 13. With EUR 481 million of revenue in 9 months, mail-related solution is showing a 2.8% growth over the period, and that's thanks to the strong recovery 17.6% to date in hardware sales against last year. When you look at the quarterly evolution at the bottom left, the stability of revenue level for this activity is particularly remarkable. In Q3 '21, we compare ourselves to less favorable base. If you remember last year, Q3 included a catch-up effect versus the H1 of last year. However, MRS still has shown this year resilient, minus 1.8% evolution in Q3, thanks to strong traction in NorAm, which was the case already in H1, but also this time in many European countries. The sustained growth in hardware sales to date is favored by a low comparison base over H1 last year, but the result as well of a strong recovery with new customer acquisition. This trend was pursued in Q3. At the same time, our backlog is very strong and at the highest level of the year at the end of October '21, mostly resulting from some delays in the supply chain. Overall, we see a strong resilience in subscription-related revenue coming from our installed base in spite of lower usage, mostly supplies. Now moving to Slide 14. Over 9 months, the last major solution, Parcel Locker solutions accounts for EUR 62 million revenue and still records the highest growth to date of our solutions with a plus 22.5% year-over-year. When looking at the revenue phasing since beginning of the year, Q1 was fueled by the end of Lowe's contract delivery, notably. Q2 was not impacted by large projects. In Q3, despite a revenue growing by 8% compared to Q2 this year, compares itself with a very high Q3 2020 characterized by the start of the same Lowe's delivery and hence show a decline of 4%. The strong double-digit growth of 20% year-on-year of subscription-related revenue is fueled by the steady and intense expansion of the installed base, more than 15,000 lockers as mentioned by Geoffrey, notably in North America in 2020, but also by the increase of usage rate, which continued to increase post 2020 and post COVID, I would say, intense [ period ]. Hardware sales was very dynamic in H1, continues to show a strong performance in Q3 despite comparison base. Like for MRS, Quadient finishes with high backlog in Parcel Locker end of Q3. And again, Quadient has now more than 15,000 lockers installed worldwide at the end of October 2021. When summing all major solutions, the 3 major solutions we've just seen, we see that major operations account for EUR 689 million of revenue to date, and it's up by 5.8% year-on-year. When you look by geography on the pie chart at the bottom, North America accounts for 55% of major operation and has been growing by more than 7% year-on-year over 9 months, particularly fueled by H1 performance. Many European countries with 40% of the revenue have shown a good momentum during Q3 and are growing now by 3.8% year-to-date. Last, international is delivering a solid performance of plus 5.9%, and it's notably by -- thanks to the expansion of the Japanese locker base. Subscription-related revenue accounts for about 70% of this revenue, and all categories of revenues have grown year-on-year to date with a significant recovery in license and hardware as well as professional services and finally a 3.2% growth in subscription-related revenue. Now if you look at the subscription-related revenue at major operation level, at the bottom left chart, the combined growth engine subscription-related revenue growth more than offset the decline in the recurring base of MRS that you can see in green. Moving to Slide 16, as a summary of the group now. You see major operation that accounts for 92% of total revenue and keeps growing in terms of ratio, notably due to the continued additional operation portfolio reshaping, including the recent divestment of the automated packing systems activity end of July. Additional operations accounts for EUR 62 million revenue to date, but only EUR 16 million for Q3 and represent only 6.5% in Q3 of group revenue within this quarter. Overall, dynamic at group level remains very well oriented with a 7.2% growth over 9 months, as already mentioned. On Monday, 22nd of November, we announced the successful issuance of an equivalent of EUR 270 million of new Schuldschein private placement under very favorable conditions. This new issuance objective was to anticipate the ODIRNANE repayment planned in June 2022 as well as the 2022 Schuldschein maturity, which you can see on the right-hand chart, top right-hand chart. With a deal volume that was upsized from EUR 100 million to EUR 270 million, we took the opportunity to immediately repay part of 2022 and 2023 Schuldschein maturities, EUR 132 million to be precise. The margin that we have for this new Schuldschein is lower by 25 to 35 basis points compared to historical Schuldschein issuance for a given maturity, which obviously will result in a reduction of the group's average cost of debt. The new maturities range from 5 to 7 years, extending the average maturity of our debt profile. As a reminder, as of 31st of July 2021, we had EUR 322 million of cash and EUR 400 million of undrawn credit facility. After this operation, we have a positive net cash impact of EUR 140 million post transaction. As a reminder, we have also strong future cash flows amounting to EUR 575 million of well-spread leasing portfolio and EUR 183 million of rental future cash flows. This concludes my section. I'm now handing over to Geoffrey for 2021 outlook.

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Thank you, Laurent, for this review. So let's move to Slide 19 so that we could go over Quadient's outlook for the full year 2021. As you can see, we have updated several times our guidance during the year. In a year of recovery, where we're still increasing uncertainty, our goal has been all along to provide you with the most accurate vision. We had -- and to share this with you in the most transparent way as we always do. In 2021, we did well so far to benefit not only from this mature improved macro environment, but also from positive dynamics in terms of increasing parcels volumes and last-mile delivery needs as well as from an increasing need for companies to further digitalize their business communication flows and processes. However, if the economy has strongly improved, this rebound also comes with these challenges. The key one for us is the stress that it has created on the supply chain. It has a direct impact in limiting our ability to deliver timely our hardware equipment to our customers, not mentioning some pressure from the cost increase and availability of components as well as, as you know, the increase in shipping costs. Now thankfully, our business model is both highly recurring and increasingly exposed to software business. But for part of it, we still rely on hardware placement to renew and/or increase our installed base of mail equipment and Parcel Lockers. So as a matter of fact, we ended the third quarter with a particularly high strong backlog, meaning that the supply chain issues have already started to weigh on our performance because some of the backlog has not been able to be recognized in Q3. Today, we expect this could continue over Q4. Consequently, to reflect this uncertainty and out of caution, we have chosen to slightly adjust our guidance for the full year. At the top line level, we now see organic growth at around 4% versus the above 4% previously stated. We see no impact, obviously, regarding our software business. We continue to expect a continued strong momentum in subscription-related revenue driven even by a further acceleration of the successful shift of our model, as Laurent mentioned, from license to SaaS. In our mail-related business, we continue to expect a low single-digit organic sales decline in Q4 with a strong backlog at the end of Q3 and with some uncertainty regarding the level of reduction of our backlog in the fourth quarter. In Parcel Lockers, even with a good booking level anticipated and a stronger backlog related at the end of Q3, our expectations are a bit lower than they were at the end of H1 due to the supply chain constraints. Moving to the current EBIT organic growth. We're logically updating our guidance to around 5% to 6% organic growth as opposed to above 6%. So I take this opportunity, obviously, to remind you that restated from the various scope effects, the pro forma base in 2020 amounts to EUR 140 million. As expected, we will continue to benefit from well-identified operating efficiencies in terms of real estate, savings, simplification of our organizations and further integration and synergies between our solutions. So in conclusion, we're still shooting for a strong performance in 2021 including organic sales growth guidance that is still much higher than the initially expected when at the beginning of the year and a marginally better EBIT growth compared to our initial guidance given at the beginning of the year. So moving to Slide 20. Let me now briefly discuss about Quadient's midterm ambition by solution. As a reminder, we shared during our last Capital Market Day specific targets by solution for the 2021, 2023 period. Starting with intelligent communication automation, subscription-related revenue increased by 20.1% on an organic basis in the first 9 months of 2021, which is fully in line with the over to 20% to 25% subscription revenue CAGR we target over the 3-year plan. And regarding mail-related solution, organic revenue growth stood at plus 2.8%. It's a positive growth of 2.8% in the first 9 months of 2021, which favorably obviously compares to the better than minus 5% organic decline or decreased CAGR that we target over the 3-year plan. And lastly, for Parcel Locker Solutions, we target an installed base of more than 25,000 lockers by the end of the 3-year plan, which represent an increase over 12,000 units compared to the 13,000 lockers we had at the end of 2020. In the first 9 months of 2021, we achieved more than 2,200 of those new installations, bringing our installed base now to over 15,100 units, as Laurent and I mentioned earlier. And so we see a great achievement also in line with our ambition to scale fast our open network of Parcel Lockers. These installations do not include the strong backlog remaining on existing key contracts and the orders we obviously have received at the end of Q3. So moving to Slide 21. With regard to Quadient's 2021-2023, 3-year plan, we naturally confirm our midterm targets at a minimum 3% organic sales CAGR over the period '21-'23 and also obviously at a minimum mid-single-digit organic current EBIT CAGR over '21-'23 for the period. So this will conclude today's presentation, and Laurent and I are now happy to take your questions. Before we do so, I just want to remind you that you can submit your questions already directly through the conference call or in writing in English via the webcast interface.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Mourad Lahmidi from BNP Paribas.

[Mourad Lahmidi, Analyst]

Yes. So I had actually 2 questions about your guidance. So at the top line level, maybe I missed that, but you said that MRS was going to decline low single digits in Q4. So that means that the rest of the business is sharply down? I'm thinking about Parcel Lockers. So I know that the comparison basis is high, but can you just give us some granularity in terms of the trends that you see in Q4 for ICA, MRS and PLS? And also, I know that you gave a guidance in terms of EBIT like-for-like growth. So just to understand much better the guidance, does it mean that in absolute term, you are expecting an EBIT of between EUR 147 million and EUR 148 million [indiscernible] at EUR 140 million basically to expect the pro forma sales of additional operations? Is that the way to understand that guidance?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

So I'm going to try to take the first part of the question on the top line. And maybe, Laurent, feel free to complement and take the second one on the EBIT. So yes, you're right, we expect a low single-digit decline for MRS, which obviously is a very good news because it's a very low level of decline and probably in the same line of Q3 with the potential uncertainty [indiscernible] the backlog reduction. Compare -- if you compare that low level of decline with even a pre-COVID situation, it shows the strong momentum that we currently have across MRS region. The booking has been pretty strong, obviously, in Q3. Actually, the performance could have been slightly better if we could have delivered more of those products. So we end up in Q3 with even higher backlog. We do anticipate that some of those tensions for MRS on the supply chain could continue as well in Q4. So we're not sure yet how much of the backlog we will be able to reduce, and we obviously count so far with the continuation of the strong booking momentum that we see so far even at the beginning of November -- I mean for November, for the beginning of December. On PLS, you're right. We did anticipate that at the beginning of 2021 in our earlier guidance. We have shared all along that we had a strong comparison basis related to the rollout of the new project Lowe's last year, in 2020. We started to roll out the Lowe's project in Q3 and in Q4, which was probably one of the highest phase of the implementation, and it continued this year in Q1 in particular. So just as a reminder, last year, in Q4 for Parcel Locker, if I remember right, Laurent, the organic growth rate of Parcel Locker was 88%. So that's why when we refer to a pretty strong comparison basis, the 88% is the comparison basis I'm referring to. So obviously, we anticipated that in Q4, PLS would be negative naturally, even though in Q4, like in Q3, we will continue to install a pretty good level of new lockers like we did in Q3, continuing in Q4 with the same uncertainty that I have shared on the reduction of the backlog for MRS. We have a little bit of a similar situation in Parcel Locker mostly related to the U.S. base, where the backlog has significantly increased in Q3, and we're going to have probably some room in Q4 of what can be delivered in addition obviously to the new bookings. And then finally, on the software side, we had a pretty strong year all along in terms of new acquisition of new customers that I was referring in particular for the third quarter. This has been actually accelerating and increasing in Q3 and even compared to Q2. We see no reason why it shouldn't change in Q4. So we see strong momentum getting into Q4 of new customers. And where we see a big difference for the software solution is obviously same thing, the ratio of license versus new booking in terms of subscription. Q4 being traditionally the highest quarter historically in terms of license, we see the shift on the bookings continue to progress the way we want it, potentially even a little bit higher, which is a good thing in terms of subscription versus license. So that being said, we see the same level of momentum getting into our software business for Q4. So I hope I covered the main point. Laurent, I'll let you complement and get to the second part of the question.

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

I think the top line is very clear, Geoffrey. From an EBIT standpoint, [ MRS ], I can confirm that the comparison -- the starting point is EUR 140 million, as we mentioned at the end of H1, which is a pro forma of last year, basically excluding anything we divested and including what we eventually acquired since then. And when we guide again around 5% to 6%, it's not between 5% to 6%, just to be clear. So yes, 5% would lead to EUR 147 million and 6% will lead to EUR 148.4 million at last year rate. And when we say around, it doesn't mean that it's only between. It could be slightly higher, slightly lower as well considering the uncertainty that Geoffrey just mentioned.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from the line of Nicolas Tabor from Stifel.

[Nicolas Tabor, Analyst]

Can you hear me well?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Very well.

[Nicolas Tabor, Analyst]

Great. Just maybe coming back on the PLS momentum. I mean you said you won the tender with Decathlon, Lowe's. You completed new extension. So I was just trying to understand, what is yet to be delivered within those large orders that you flagged? And which of these, including Yamato, for instance, in Japan, and which of these are hardware sales and which are just rental [ mails ] that we can have an idea of how the top line will develop for PLS in the next year? And then the other question would be on the -- if we take a 2-year stacked organic growth view, I mean it's not that easy to reconcile, of course, with the change in scope. But I felt that in Q3 basically, the 2 year stack view was quite stable versus H1, which saw continued momentum, as you were saying. Is it the right way to look at it? Or is it tweaked by the change in scope? And then in Q4, if I look at your guidance for top line, is it right to assume that, that means that the 2-year stack is slightly deteriorating in Q4 due to those external factors, such as supply chain disruptions and so on?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Okay. So I take some of it. Laurent, stay on the contract maybe and then we can see how we take the next part of the question. On the -- and thank you, Nicolas, for those questions. It's good that we have the [ opportunity ] to clarify. On the large contract, obviously, we're not going to give the specific numbers for confidential reason, so I'm going to group them. If I remember well, we did had some contract, obviously, in France with some carriers, 2 main carriers in France, and we also have obviously some contract in Japan. And we said that roughly, we were looking at 5,000 installation knowing that the numbers installation could vary based on the configuration, but that's the basis in terms of comparison that we shared with you. So that was obviously from the end of last year, beginning of this year. We have started to -- and that's for the Parcel Locker Lite. To be clear, all of these are on the subscription model. So they are not on a hardware model, contrary on to Lowe's, so full subscription. And we have started to implement them both in France and in Japan. In Japan, I think I was mentioning for Q3, there was 200 equivalent of them just in Q3 alone. I don't have on top of mind the exact number of what is left on those 5,000 equivalent, but we're probably less than halfway. There's probably more than half, probably a little bit around 3,000, Laurent, is that probably a good ballpark, I think on that, which is obviously part of the increase in the backlog. And when we talk about the backlog, the backlog on those large contracts, but there's also the backlog of the other customer orders that we receive. And that's the one in the U.S. because in the U.S., obviously, it's not accounted for in those large contracts. In the U.S., we also have the backlog that has increased from the other segments, in particular on the residential segment, where we've seen some of the time to be able to implement, obviously, a little bit longer, but also the result of a stronger booking activity. So this is why as we get into Q4, as we get into the beginning of next year, we obviously have a significant amount of work on the backlog on the contract, and we obviously look at the opportunities that we have in terms of new bookings in Q4. I have mentioned that we have a pretty strong pipeline of large opportunities that also will help us continue the strong growth that we expect next year and the year after for the Parcel Locker. Do you want to take the second part?

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

Nicolas, I would try to answer your second part of the question, let me -- stop me if I didn't get to write the question. I think your question was basically how do you see the over 2-year type of evolution of our revenue and notably in Q3 and Q4, and you are asking basically if there is a deterioration in Q4 expected compared to the trend over 2 years that we had in, for example, Q3. So as a quick reminder, Q3 last year was minus 3%. Q4 last year was minus 1% organic growth. So it's a bit tricky because, obviously, we have a lot of moved scope, but I think the organic growth quarter-over-quarter is a fair way to look at the compound evolution over 2 years. Q3 this year, almost stable at minus 0.4%. Q4, you mentioned it and we mentioned the full year guidance, and we expect probably a negative evolution over Q4. For me, it doesn't mean that it's very different from the minus 3% and minus 0.4% we've seen in Q3 because we had a minus 1%, which is obviously way better than the minus 3%. And one of the reasons, obviously, is the [indiscernible] and 88% increase we had in Parcel Locker in Q4 last year, which was obviously disclosed as such and I don't think whether repeatable as such with such a comparison base. That being said, you have a small thing that also kicks in and that explain also that portion is that we used at Q4 notably on ICA very much fueled with large on-premise perpetual license deals. The more we are shifting to our subscription, the more we suffer basically from that induced decline in revenue. And the impact for Q4 will be obviously higher than other quarters because the pie and the share of the license, the perpetual license that we used to have in Q4 will be all the more smaller and will impact all the more the overall growth of ICA. That being said, we still expect a good quarter for ICA. The bookings are particularly well oriented, and we've seen -- and we are basically embarking revenue for the coming years.

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

And that was maybe -- one thing Nicolas to -- I think to address your point. On the locker, if we look over 2 years, and I can remember if it's Q3 over 2 years versus Q3 or even in H1 or H2, even if you take into account that Lowe's project in between, net-net, we will be more than 20% growth for the Parcel Locker over 2 years. And knowing that the Parcel Locker contract with Lowe's was upfront hardware was most of the way we do today is obviously more towards subscription and rentals.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] We've got a follow-up question from the line of Mourad Lahmidi from BNP Paribas.

[Mourad Lahmidi, Analyst]

So just a follow-up on my question on your EBIT guidance. So you mentioned that the starting point is EUR 140 million pro forma for the sale of additional operations. Maybe you can help us and split that out between major operations and additional operation. Is there any reason for that split to have changed on a pro forma basis?

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

In fact, Mourad, it's mostly on additional operation from a divestment standpoint. Obviously, you have also the acquisition of Beanworks and YayPay between beginning of 2020 and now that basically have been done in the meantime and needs to be retreated as well. So we don't disclose as such this bridge. I mean it's -- and we don't guide basically on major operation EBIT if that's the question. We guide over an EBIT overall at group level, and that's what we have both for this year and both for the plan of the 3 coming years.

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

But the change, as you mentioned, on YayPay and Beanworks are on major operation, whereas the divestment of the graphic and the CVP [indiscernible] is on the [ additional ] operation.

[Mourad Lahmidi, Analyst]

Okay. Because from my point of view, I mean the divestment of additional operation doesn't change the EBIT of major operations if I'm correct.

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Exactly. Yes, you're correct.

[Mourad Lahmidi, Analyst]

So that's EUR 153 million. So that means that additional operations on a pro forma basis are a negative EUR 13 million, right? Am I right?

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

No, no. Mourad, two things. First thing is that this pro forma excludes the earn-out reversal for EUR 6.5 million of last year, which is a one-off that we don't consider to be included in a comparison growth year-over-year. So that's part of the answer on the major operation. And second is that to compare apples with apples, as we have acquired Beanworks and YayPay in the meantime, you need also to add the EBIT of Beanworks and YayPay for the equivalent period last year.

[Mourad Lahmidi, Analyst]

Okay. So that means that the Beanworks and YayPay are loss making. Am I right? You would say that?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Before the acquisition, definitely, yes.

[Mourad Lahmidi, Analyst]

Yes. Okay. Are you looking at some improvement at those 2 assets?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Yes. So on Beanworks and YayPay, it's been the plan all along is to be able to scale those business within major operation, which basically requires some cross-selling effort and training in the different respective countries, being able to have them in a stabilized level in terms of R&D. And then as a result, we should be able to expect some strong improvement of profitability over time this year, next year and the year after, naturally, with the increase of the profitability that we expect from the installed base because as those business or installed base business on a subscription basis are the higher the installed base, then the higher the profitability you have from -- during a given period of time.

[Mourad Lahmidi, Analyst]

Okay. And again, on major operations, your guidance for 2021, I mean if I'm not wrong, that means that you have some margin dilution of the major operations. Can you maybe give us the main moving parts for that?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

So before Laurent, maybe just to answer you, so I just wanted to add a complement on the first one on the ICA software solution in terms of profitability, we gave not only a top line guidance, obviously, on the growth momentum that we expect to maintain on a subscription basis over the plan, but same thing in terms of profitability. We said that we expected the profitability to go from the profitability of this year or last year, if you want, to up to 30% solution profitability. So the improvement of profitability is not just on Beanworks and YayPay, but it's also on Impress and Inspire, so the entire portfolio that we expect to have. And the impact on the profitability what is this year compared to last year is also related to the change of model, right, as we have less license and we focus on the shift to subscription, in particular, in the first year, part of the change in profitability of the degradation, if you want, is related to the change of model. And mechanically, that's something that will also help us go back to a higher level of profitability just apples-to-apples in '22 and '23.

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

And so Mourad, here, if I understand well, you are trying to see if we have margin dilution at major operation level and over the full year 2021 without having yet done the H2 fully, it's probably quite complex to estimate our additional operation that has changed scope between end of H1 and now, the fully -- the EBIT of this portion. The only thing we can say, I think, at this stage is gaining at more than 4% -- around 4% of top line for the full year and guiding at around 5% to 6% in EBIT induces an increase in terms of margin at group level. This increase would be a couple of basis points. In other words, if there is a slight delta between additional operation and major operation, it's going to be limited, and we expect at least a margin broadly in line with what we had last year in terms of percentage on both parts.

[Mourad Lahmidi, Analyst]

Okay. But the thing is that we -- you gave us the starting point, EUR 140 million, but not really the margin. So maybe if you can share the margin so we have all the -- all your inputs in hand to forecast.

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

So we don't guide on the EBIT margin today because obviously we have a mix of solution, right, and the 3 could evolve slightly differently, and so I think we're going to need to wait until the H2 is completed. What we do know is obviously based on the mix and the volume and the expectation that we have that overall, we're going to be able to improve the profitability at group level, some improvement that has been ongoing on additional operation. And obviously, by maintaining the profitability in a pretty tight range on MRS, we do expect on a regular basis to have both Parcel Locker and the software to be able to improve in terms of profitability. After that, we have different phasing during the year, different comparison basis. And that's why we're going to wait, I think, I'm sure to see H2. But with the guidance of this year, overall, the profitability will likely improve as we expect this growth to be slightly higher than the growth of the top line.

[Operator]

And the next question on the line comes from Patrick Jousseaume.

[Patrick Jousseaume, Head of Mid and Small caps Europe Research]

It's about the new organic sales growth guidance. What impact of the Q1 -- of the supply chain tensions are embedded in this guidance, maybe expressed in million euro, which is another way maybe to ask you the question of what would have been the guidance without this supply chain tensions, higher or in line with when you had on the 27th of September?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

So it's -- so let's take the backlog, I think it's a great way to explain it. In Q3, we had the backlog that instead of reducing or being stable, which usually we would expect in H2, for example. In Q3, the backlog has increased by EUR 5 million. So 2 things, it's been increasing quarter-on-quarter this year. So it's at the highest level this year but even compared to the previous years. And in Q3 alone, it had increased by EUR 5 million. So in an ideal world, which is never is, you could have said that the booking and the performance, if we had maintained the backlog at the same level, could have been augmented by this value or some of it, obviously. And this is where we don't know, obviously, getting into Q4, the level a little bit of uncertainty. So we try to obviously, out of caution, to try to take into account that it could repeat itself. It doesn't have to be when we look at our supply chain constraint or issues that we see. We obviously had, had additional issues in Q3 that may be stabilizing or improving, getting into Q4. But it's not just us and what we can do is also what our customers can do and the planification on their side, whether they can receive and install, obviously, the hardware. So there's many interdependent aspect that make us look at that range. So if you take that range of EUR 5 million in Q3, you can either double it in -- with Q4. Let's say it's to the same level, that would be EUR 10 million. That would be, to some extent, on a worst-case scenario. Maybe we can maintain the EUR 5 million and have a more stabilized view or we could improve altogether and have actually an additional benefit in Q4 and for the second part of this year. And just to complement, sorry, that's on the top line. You know the gross margin on the hardware is pretty decent, so there's the mechanical impact on the EBIT, and this is why we have also looked at the EBIT range logically from those few millions of delta that could happen on what were the other hardware. And if they do happen, they will help us be on the higher end, obviously, of the range we gave. And if it doesn't happen, to be on the lower end of the range that we have given.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next caller is a follow-up question from Nicolas Tabor.

[Nicolas Tabor, Analyst]

Yes. Again, so just first to follow up on the previous question. The EUR 5 million incremental backlog, is it the next 12 months basis? Is it just a next quarter basis? I mean it would have been EUR 5 million over the next 12 months or basically over the next 3 months. How should we look at that? And then my other question was on the fixed cost base between the solutions profit and the [ EBITA ]. I think it was around EUR 96 million in H1, slightly down versus H2 and H1 2020. How should we think about it for H2 '21? Is it still going down? Is it stabilizing? I know you don't give guidance for the different solutions. But at least for the fixed cost base, how should we think about them?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

The first part on the backlog, this is really the backlog we would have expected to be able to deliver within the quarter. So these are really orders that within a reasonable amount of time could have been. So it's not the backlog, like the large contract that you -- that we were referring to on the Parcel Locker, just as an explanation on that. When we mentioned the increase of EUR 5 million in the backlog, we don't take in the calculation of our backlog orders that cannot be delivered within 6 months. So that's the limit, more or less. That means that some of the large contract that I referred to that may be implemented into next year are not included in the increase that I mentioned. So this is why it's a valid near-term backlog that has an impact on the near-term performance of the company.

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

And just a quick comment on the backlog, we have a rotation of this backlog. It's not the same backlog that we make sure that the aging of the backlog rotate and that we really install what has to be installed within the period of time. So there is no toxicity as such in the backlog. It's healthy backlog that has been generated in the past 3 months for most of it, and it will be delivered in the next 3 months for about all of it. One -- and so to your point, I think, Nicolas, your point was basically the difference between the solution profit EBIT, which is basically our G&A plus innovation cost. And you were mentioning the EUR 95 million, I think, for H1. And yes, we did a bridge that we shown during H1 of the reduction of this bucket of EUR 7 million between H1 last year and H1 this year. A lot of that is related, as we mentioned at that time, to real estate termination. We've been closing actively during H2 of last year, offices notably in North America. Not using them, obviously, we were rationalizing them as well. As we started in H2 last year, obviously, it had a good impact of H1 this year. The impact would still be there in H2 this year but at probably a lower pace just from a comparison standpoint effect.

[Nicolas Tabor, Analyst]

So that means basically so slightly less of an impact, but still a slight decrease in fixed costs in H2, if I understand correctly?

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

Year-on-year comparison, if you compare H2 G&A vision to H2 coming G&A innovation, the drop that we've seen in H1 will be potentially slightly lower, but there will still be a drop.

[Nicolas Tabor, Analyst]

Okay, okay. And then on the backlog, have you quantified some kind of range of the delay in months of timing that you're seeing for your backlog? I mean you have the 6 months range, and I guess you had to review some of it and pull back some of that backlog beyond the 6 months and therefore exiting the backlog, and that must have driven the change in guidance. How much more time are you putting on most of your hardware sales and therefore pushing some out of the range? I mean in terms of timing, if you can share millions of euros, I'm sure.

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

I think the question in terms of methodology and the way we calculate the backlog, nothing have changed. We didn't have to adjust it. So things are fairly consistent now for several years actually in that method. So I think what you're referring to and if I can express it from a business perspective, the impact from the delay of installation, we really took the blunt of the impact already in Q1 and in Q2. Meaning that the average time we used to be able to deliver products, which in the case of the mailing business, it was a few days, if you want, sometimes max, a week for the bigger equipment, no longer but not much, which is -- and we shared that already in H1. So that was the same feedback in H1 is more than a month or sometimes 1.5 months. So this is why that rotation is done usually within a quarter. Obviously, at the end of the quarter could spill over into the following quarter. So this is why whatever increase in backlog that we are talking about, it's not related to the elongated time to deliver just because we had stronger bookings. And knowing the time that it takes with the stronger bookings, considering the customers and on our side, we have not been able to deliver much of that backlog within the third quarter. On the Parcel Locker, the time has always been a little longer. It's more around 3 months from an order to installation. And since the beginning of the year, that time frame at the H1, and we shared at the same way, is over 3 months. It's more over 4, 5, 6 months now. And this is why the impact, obviously, a lot of those has been taken into account already in H1. So what we're looking at after H1 guidance is really the incremental impact that we've seen in the 3 months of the third quarter, which is obviously the results also of higher booking but just not recognized.

[Nicolas Tabor, Analyst]

Okay. So you mean that it's broadly as -- I mean the delay is the same as in H1, but the higher bookings have driven to push back some orders?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Exactly. And then after that, you have a cutoff period obviously for the last few weeks of a given month in the quarter for the last month of the quarter, and we have the same risk getting into Q4, whether or not some of the installation in the last 2 or 3 weeks of the months of January for us, as you know, we have 2 more months to go, could spill over or not into February.

[Nicolas Tabor, Analyst]

Okay. I mean so you mean that the higher orders with the same clients, right? Because otherwise, you could deliver the clients who had already ordered and you could recognize that revenue when you would just have to push back the new clients, to say.

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Mostly existing same customers for PLS. It could be new customers for MRS because the MRS cycle is obviously much shorter.

[Nicolas Tabor, Analyst]

Okay. But I struggle to understand. I mean if it's not more delayed, why asking more orders is delaying the rest that was already ordered and you already had in the backlog? It's just that one thing I struggle to understand.

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Because the delays could come from us or the customers at the end of the period of the quarter.

[Operator]

There are no further questions in the queue. [Operator Instructions]

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Maybe, Laurent, we could pass if there's no additional question to the question we had on the webcast.

[Unknown Executive]

Yes, yes. Thank you, Geoffrey. We have received a number of questions through the webcast. So let's answer to some of them. The first 3 questions come from David Cerdan. So question #1, do you expect some supply chain disruption in early 2022? Second question, can you explain why your cash position is so high? Will it make sense to use it to further reduce the gross debt? And third question, considering now, can you disclose the biggest Parcel Locker tenders? And how are you positioned on them?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Okay. Many good questions, so I'll try to remember them. So for the supply chain disruption in early 2022, it's obviously too early to anticipate. There are some encouraging sign happening now that makes me obviously a little bit more confident about those things being less impactful in '22. But that being said, things could change also quickly. We've seen with the health situation, it could impact different areas, different port or different shipping companies or even different region of the world. So we'll try to be cautious. Obviously, for us, the high level of backlog can help on the one hand, mitigate some of those issues as we get into next year because we'll be able to continuously deliver to customers. I guess it's difficult to anticipate this time. I think for us, it's probably more stable -- stabilized at this point. And we need to see probably for the rest of the year if there will be further stabilization and improvement or if there is anything new that happened. On the large pipeline in terms of multiple key tenders that we have or that we're bidding on today in different regions of the world, this is what we referred to at the end of H1 already. We had a few more, obviously, since. So we're talking usually when I talk about those large tenders, but a large distribution chain. They're within the like of Lowe's that we had. So, there will be a large implementation of many lockers, whether they could be a hardware front or subscription. They're more towards subscription lately or with also big carriers. So carriers in most countries today are thinking actively and have issued RFPs or process that we obviously participate into about the rollout and the use of open network in most cases about the lockers. So obviously, when you talk about those large deals, you're going to talk about several hundreds like in the case of the Lowe's contract for distribution chain to several thousands of lockers that could be included in each of those potential projects. Do you want to take the rest of the question?

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

So, I take the one on the cash, which I think was the last one. So at the end of H1, so we don't disclose the cash position at the end of Q2 obviously. But at end of H1, for the example, we had EUR 322 million of cash at hand. We did raise EUR 270 million of Schuldschein, which in fact resulted in only EUR 140 million of additional cash because we benefited from an immediate repayment of some maturities from '22 and '23. That's what you can see on the chart, Page 17, which makes that after the operation, if we were to have the same cash as of H1, we would have a total of EUR 460 million of cash, basically. And when you look at the maturities that we have to come, we have about EUR 300 million to reimburse just between now and end of June next year, which means that after June next year, we would have left EUR 160 million-ish amount of cash, which significantly decreased the amount of gross debt and the amount of cash at hand that I think answers your question, David. And obviously, to face CapEx potential CapEx program that we would have in Parcel Locker, and we currently have in Parcel Locker notably we need to -- and have obviously the valuation of working capital for the year. We assume we need about EUR 100 million. So we still have this -- you're right, excess of EUR 60 million plus because we have also the current generation of cash as we go to this date. And we have the opportunity to reimburse also potentially by anticipation, some of our other Schuldschein variable rate if it makes sense every year without charges. So we can use it as well early next year if needed and if the cash position is not required as such.

[Unknown Executive]

Thank you, Laurent. We have received some other question from [ Olivier Lombard ], but you have already answered to some of them. Maybe we can take this one. Can you explain why you track modernized asset base at your Mail-Related Solution business? Is it more profitable than previous generation?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Very good question, Olivier. So the new smart device that we have, have several benefits. They're obviously connected, which is not necessarily the case with the older generation, and they come with a range of new capabilities in terms of compliance with current or future requirements coming from the postal organizations. And obviously, from those requirements compliance, a whole set of new capabilities that improve productivities for our customers, cost savings in particular. In addition to that, they also come with the connection, obviously, of our cloud platforms, in particular, the S.M.A.R.T., which is the name S-M-A-R-T cloud platform on the mailing side, which allows our customers to not only manage mail but also parcels and do also a lot of optimization in terms of cost and accounting for those customers. There's several features. So by placing the new equipment, it's an opportunity for an upsell for us because we're obviously capable to go and see an existing installed base of customers and providing them new capability and upsell the new hardware, S.M.A.R.T. hardware. And also with the addition of the hardware, upsell those new software capabilities. They are in high demand. So we are getting to one existing revenue stream that, yes, will be also more profitable, but more importantly, the capability to cross-sell a software package within the MRS business. I'm not talking about our ICA portfolio here, and that's another subscription revenue stream that we expect out of the software. So all in all, yes, the modernization of the base come with an expectation of progressive improvement on top line and obviously profitability.

[Unknown Executive]

Thank you. Another question from [ Olivier Lombard ]. Can you detail how much savings you will get from your latest refinancing?

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

Thank you, Yes, this one is for me, Geoffrey. So Olivier, we raised, again, EUR 270 million of Schuldschein private placement. We mentioned in the press release that the average rate was around 1.6% per annum. It's a combination of fixed variable. So it's at a given date and it's a mix between USD and euro as well, which have different rates as well. If you just compare to the previously issued Schuldschein since 2017, 2019, notably, it's about 25 basis points below. So if you do the quick math, I think you could argue that it's 25 basis points times 270, a couple of hundreds of thousand per year, probably 700,000, 800,000. That being said, you need to just keep in mind that we use this additional cash to reimburse mostly ODIRNANE and Schuldschein maturity. So it's not only Schuldschein. ODIRNANE, as such, is treated as an equity within our IFRS accounts. So the payment of ODIRNANE yearly, I would say, rates are qualified as dividend. In fact, they don't appear in our P&L, but it's necessarily significantly more expensive than the Schuldschein we just raised. And you know because it's public, it's based on another report. We pay about EUR 8 million to EUR 9 million of equivalent dividend for [indiscernible] yearly. That basically will be replaced by a significantly smaller amount. If you take this EUR 270 million at 1.6%. That would give you the savings in cash, which is not the saving you will see on the P&L because again this EUR 8.9 million does not appear on the P&L.

[Unknown Executive]

Thank you. Maybe a couple of additional questions from [ Olivier Lombard ]. First one, have you reduced your business scope with Esker following the acquisition of YayPay and Beanworks? And second question, I think this relates to our Parcel Locker business. Considering your backlog, do you keep your CapEx at EUR 40 million for 2022 and 2023?

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Okay. So let me take the one on Esker. So we primarily through the joint venture that we have, leverage the Esker technology, thanks to the agreements that are in place to promote our Neotouch brand, which was mostly started in France. And then after that, historically speaking, from the French base, I believe other countries have started to develop also Neotouch. The Neotouch, obviously, is mostly related now to the -- in terms of comparable or different capabilities related to hybrid mail capabilities and customer communications. And we have actually launched a new product called Impress that is also of differentiated but similar capabilities into the other countries. So that's really where I think the impact is, is that we have started to promote, in addition to the Neotouch portfolio, additional capabilities on the market that are either complementary or differentiated by segment. In terms of geographies, today, it is mostly focused on the Neotouch brand on the French market, where we continue its promotion. On the AR and AP side, which is the -- related to the acquisition of Beanworks and YayPay. We did not really promote the Neotouch AR, which is the account receivable or AP, outside of the French market. And therefore, there's not really much change. On the other hand, we, on our side, have started to promote actively the Beanworks and the YayPay solution, in particular in NorAm. And we look forward, obviously, to some announcements in the coming months about the release and the launch of those AP and AR solution outside of the U.S.

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

I would take the second part of the question regarding I think the CapEx. You mentioned, Olivier, EUR 40 million, more than EUR 40 million was the CapEx for rent. So again, that's the tangible asset for rent it's mostly lockers but also franking machine. We're expecting on a yearly basis. So you are very right to mention a little bit of backlog, which is a strong because we have obviously orders on Parcel Locker, I would say, for rent. This year, as you saw in H1, we were showing about EUR 50 million of CapEx, so which is a bit less than the EUR 40 million divided by 2. And we -- basically, we should be relatively in line or slightly below that. That being said, for the coming years and due to the strong pipeline we've seen in Parcel Locker, yes, we could be above as well EUR 40 million. It's mostly tied to basically the business model of the large deals that will come in, in the coming months and coming quarters, notably in Parcel Locker.

[Unknown Executive]

Thank you, Laurent. I think it's time to end the call. So.

[Geoffrey Godet, CEO & Director]

Thank you very much for your time, for your questions and look forward to meeting with you again for our full year results probably at the end of March 2022. Thank you very much.

[Laurent Du Passage, Chief Financial Officer]

Thank you.