Tomra Systems ASA

OSE:TOM

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q1

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

Good morning from Asker, Norway, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to TOMRA's First Quarter Results Presentation for 2023. My name is Daniel Sundahi, and I'm the new Head of Investor Relations here in TOMRA. And with me today, I have our CEO, Tove Andersen; and our CFO, Eva Sagemo, who will take you through the highlights and the results of the quarter.

At the end of presentation, we will answer your questions, which you can post through the embedded Q&A tool in the webcast. Please keep in mind that there is approximately a 1-minute delay. So, please post your questions well in advance that we have time to see them and answer them.

With that said, I will give the word over to Tove.

[Tove Andersen, executive]

Thank you, Dan. And also a warm welcome from me to you on the Q1 2020 results of TOMRA. This quarter, I'm very pleased with the progress we are making on our strategic ambitions. We have a plan to accelerate growth, and we continue to see strong revenue growth materializing across all divisions this quarter. Also, our efforts to mitigate the effects of inflation and supply chain disruptions to improve gross margins are paying off.

However, how -- as we have been scaling up our business over the past year, to really capture growth opportunities that lies ahead of us. Our EBITDA is impacted. Profitability is a priority for us, and we are confident that the organization that we now have built will deliver on the profitability targets as the business continues to grow going forward.

Let's then quickly run through the key figures. So in the quarter, we are reporting revenues of NOK 3.2 billion. That is 17% up versus same quarter last year, if we then do it currency adjusted. And as you will see, it's a good contribution from all 3 divisions. Our gross margin in the quarter ended up on 40%. This is in line with the margins the same quarter last year. Collection is now improving the margin compared to the previous 3 quarters as we are working our way through the frame agreements.

And also, we have now seen improved margins in recycling and food where we now have been able to recuperate the cost increases. Our operating expenses for the quarter is a bit above NOK 1 billion -- and if you then adjust for currency, this is in line with what we had in Q4 last year. If you compare with Q1 -- last year, the increase is mainly driven by business expansion but also some inflation pressure and that we are investing in optimization initiatives.

In TOMRA, we continue to invest in future-oriented activities to capture growth, both in our core, our existing divisions, but also in adjacent opportunities. However, at the same time, we are focusing on ensuring that we have a culture of cost control. This then resulted in an EBITA of NOK 277 million currency adjusted, that is then down 8% versus same quarter last year. We had very strong cash flow in the quarter, approximately NOK 0.5 billion, and the main contributor there was conversion of receivables.

If you then look at our order intake and order backlog, we had strong order intake in the quarter of NOK 961 million in recycling and 954 million in food. This gives us a backlog of 1.3 billion in recycling and 1.2 billion in food. There are significant currency effects in these figures, and Eva Sagemo will come back to that when she presents.

However, what we see is a good momentum in Recycling and processed Food, while there is a weakening in the fresh Food segment. Another highlight in the quarter is a strategic investment that we made in Kezzler where we have taken a 14% stake. Kezzler is a software company with an interesting solution that can enable faster that we accelerate and the transition to circularity, and I'll come back to that a bit later. Then over to the business updates.

In TOMRA, we have a clear and ambitious strategy to deliver on our vision of leading the resource revolution. Our strategy is centered around growth, both accelerate growth in core and develop adjacent opportunities. And by doing that, we will deliver on our 5-year target of doubling our business equaling then a 15% CAGR.

At the same time, we want to become a fully circular business, which is really linked and to deliver on our sustainability strategy that we launched last year, but also to be a safe, fair and inclusive place to work. So that we can ensure that we have the people that we both attract and retain and get the best out of the people to be able to deliver on the strategy. I will now give an update both on what we're doing within core, but also then a short update on how our adjacent opportunities are developing.

And when we talk about core in TOMRA, we talk about our 3 divisions. I assume most of you know them very well, but they are, of course, Collection, Recycling and Food. Collection is half of our business where we are providing solutions into deposit return markets. Food is approximately 30% of our business where we have the sorting and grading solutions for fruit and vegetables. And recycling where we do Sorting Solutions for many types of materials to enable closed-loop recycling.

So let's then start with collection. Collection had all-time revenues, all-time high revenues in the quarter. Key contributor was Netherlands. Netherlands went live with their can expansion of the deposit scheme in April 1. So we had good sales into the Netherlands. But also we continued good sales into Romania, which will go live in November this year. We also then saw improved gross margins in the quarter. As many of you know, margins in Collection has been a pressure point as we when inflation really hit had a certain part of our business linked to frame agreements.

We now see that working through these frame agreements that we do now see positive effect, and that will continue then and we will be through these frame agreements by end of this year.

Also a highlight in the quarter was the announcement that TOMRA Cleanaway, our JV in Australia was selected as one of three network operator in Victoria. This is a true put market. We will install more than 400 RVMs, and it will go live then November this year. So you will see a gradual increase in the income from that from November and onwards.

As normally we do, we have then included a list of the deposit, the markets that have publicly announced our clear decision on going live with a deposit scheme. I'm not going to go through all of them. I'll just go through the changes since last quarter. I already mentioned Victoria that they have now announced the network operators and things are progressing well there. Another news since last year is that last quarter is that Scotland a few weeks ago, I communicated that they will delay the go lives of their deposit system.

The deposit system in Scotland was planned to go live in August and is now postponed to March 1 next year. Another news story since last time is Singapore. So in March this year, Singapore, the parliament in Singapore passed a legislation for a deposit return scheme for beverage containers. This will then be the first deposit return scheme in Asia.

And even though the Singapore is not the large market in itself, we think this will be a good showcase for other countries in that region. The system will be a hybrid system, but with a return to retail as the backbone and is planned to go live April 2025. Then let's move over to recycling. Recycling had a very good quarter in Q1, both on the revenue side, but also ends the quarter with an all-time high order backlog. We see strong momentum in all the different segments that we are operating in waste, plastic, metal and or sorting. And it's really driven by the increased focus on climate change and reducing CO2 emission enabled by circularity.

In the quarter, we opened a second test facility in Germany. As some of you might have participated on our Capital Markets Day last year, so then you would have visited our test facility. But due to this increased momentum in the market, we were running out of capacity.

And the test center for us is a very important selling point because this is where customers can come with their material and spend a day with us where we test it through different machines to showcase what we can do. So we now opened a second test center. So we'll have one for metal and then one for the other materials.

It was a great event where we had participants from more than 26 countries, 200 people attending, customers and plant builders and also we use that as an opportunity to inform and tell about both what we are doing in TOMRA, but also what's happening in general in the markets that we're operating in.

Also, another good news in the quarter -- was that we have been selected by Pilbara Minerals to then be the provider of the ore sorting technology for their lithium plant in Pilbara, Australia. Lithium, there is an increased demand from -- for lithium, really driven by the focus on the renewable energy.

So this is linked to electric vehicles, energy storage and so forth.

The mine in Australia in Pilbara, the challenge is that it is contaminated with Baron [ Ross rock ] host rock that we need to take out.

So what we provide to this mine is really a high sensor resolution technology so that you can then increase really the lithium recovery by then removing the waste removal and then also be able to do that in a stable and consistent way. For mining or our ore sorting, it's a significant order, one of the largest orders that we have had, it's 10 sorters, and it will be completed during 2023. Then over to Food had good sales in the quarter with the revenue up by 15%. It's especially Processed Food that has performed well in the quarter and also where we see a positive outlook. However, in the Fresh Foods segment, we see a somewhat weaker sentiment.

2 kind of key reasons for that. First of all, that's for certain categories due to severe weather conditions, there had been about harvest. This is, for example, relevant for blueberry. And if a farmer has a bad harvest, typically, they will postpone investments into new equipment. But also that we do see in that segment that the general macroeconomic uncertainty is creating delays and more scrutiny in investing in new facilities. So combined then with those 2 process doing well and it's somewhat weaker in fresh food, we have then a reduced order backlog in the quarter.

However, very positive in the quarter is the potato segment, and that's been one of the main drivers for the good performance in Processed Food. For us, potatoes is a very interesting category.

Because it's such a wide variety of potato products that really demand different types of sorting and processing equipment because you have everything from taking potatoes out of the ground to really fresh packed crisps, French fries and other frozen products such as wedges, slices and et cetera. And when you do potato processing, there will be all sorts of foreign materials that are mixed up with the potatoes when they get harvested. And if you don't remove this, the foreign material could threaten food safety, but also it could increase the risk of potato rot, breakdown the machinery and so forth.

So here, we offer quite a broad portfolio. So we offer industry-leading sorting solutions, steam peeling and integrated post-harvest solution. And our technology then both remove contaminants, but also then graze potatoes accurately to really make sure that we optimize the produce for the farmer. As I said, potato were then the key contributor in the good performance of Processed Food in Q1 this year.

So that was the update on the core, and then I wanted to say a few words about our adjacent opportunities and what is happening there and what we now call TOMRA Horizon. So just to give a reminder of what this is.

So as I said, as part of our strategy, we want to accelerate the growth in core, but also we want to look at what other opportunities. Should we pursue given the technology base we have, the experience we have, the position we have in the value chain and what is currently happening within circular economy and resource optimization. So this is really about building new businesses. It's not about R&D, it's about building new businesses. And everything we focus on here should have the possibility to become -- it should have a kind of potential, a sizable enough potential that it has the possibility to become the next leg of TOMRA.

Currently, we have 3 ventures that we are running within Horizon. We have one in textiles, one focusing on reuse and one on plastics. The plastic feedstock venture is really about closing the gap in closing the circularity in plastics. By then taking dirty household ways that's plastic that is part of household ways that typically would go into incineration and landfill and turn that into a valuable material that can be recycled in a closed loop. And we announced before Christmas, an investment into a plastic feedstock facility in Germany, and that is now progressing as planned. Within reusable packaging, our focus is on the takeaway segment. So coffee cups, hamburger trays and so forth.

This is a big issue, especially in cities. And our focus is to create a scalable solution there based on our competence within collection. And in textiles, it's really about creating new value chains. Textiles is probably the material.

The largest material where there is the least circularity. Less than 1% of textiles are being recycled today. So it's really about creating the new value chains to enable that.

We don't have -- and then on these 3 ventures, we are currently running at an OpEx run rate. So what we're investing in this now and you look at our Q1 cost the annual run rate linked to these 3 ventures is approximately NOK 80 million.

We don't have a venture linked to digital business models today, but we then made this investment into Kezzler. And why did we do that?

Kezzler is a Software-as-a-Service company, and they have a platform that enables serialization and traceability of products through their life cycle. We believe that serialization will be key for certain circular solution.

And what is really serialization, it is that you can be able to really have unique codes on the different materials and be able to then trace down to really each item. And we believe that's going to be an important technology for reuse, and we believe it's going to be an important technology for textiles and it might also be for others. So we think this is an exciting acquisition. We have collaborated already with Kezzler in the past, and we do see then a significant potential for mutual value creation by working in close collaboration also going forward.

That ends then my business update, and I'll hand over to Eva Sagemo, our CFO, to go through the financials and outlook.

[Eva Sagemo, executive]

Thank you for that Tove. and starting with the group P&L. So first quarter represents a strong growth on top line, and it is across all our business divisions. And the level is in line with our strategic ambition set for the next 5 years. We have good momentum coming from both new and existing markets in TOMRA Collection. And continued good market conditions in TOMRA Recycling and also good performance in processed food. Our revenues ended at 3.239 million, which is up 17% compared to same quarter last year.

So up 18% in Collection, up 15% in Recycling and up 15% in Food. Our gross margin ended flat at 40% is in line with what we had same quarter last year. And we are satisfied that we have managed to recuperate margins in both recycling and in food and that we are also making good progress in Collection. Our operating expenses is up 26%, ending at NOK 1.027 billion compared to up 26% compared to same quarter last year. But it's more correct to compare it with Q4 as we have built the organization for future growth during 2022.

And comparing to Q4, we are 1% up currency adjusted. And then as Tove mentioned, we are also investing in new business opportunities, what we call TOMRA Horizon. EBITA ended at NOK 277 million, which is down 8% currency adjusted compared to same quarter last year. And our ambition is to increase profitability.

And we believe that the investments that we have done in our organization but also investing in new markets and the transformation program in Food and then also what we do now on the margin side, will take us towards higher profitability as the growth continues.

Then looking at TOMRA Collection. So it's a good momentum in TOMRA Collection in both new and existing markets.

The Netherlands contributed positive with NOK 100 million as anticipated last quarter, and we continue to have good sales in Romania. So the revenues were up 18%, currency adjusted, ending at NOK 1.828 billion. And as you can see from this overview, Europe was especially strong in the quarter. Our gross margins ended at 38%. It's down 1% compared to same quarter last year.

And we are satisfied that we are -- that we have managed to recuperate some of the margin that with -- coming from the inflation and cost pressure last year.

And now we see that 1 percentage point is due to the inflation impact. So 1 percentage point down, it is still lagging a bit in TOMRA Collection. And then we have a small table on currency and also limited business mix this quarter.

Operating expenses is up 20% compared to same quarter last year and at NOK 421 million.

So we have high activities in new markets, and we have also had some special projects this quarter then mentioning, for example, EuroShop, which was a great success for TOMRA. EBITA at NOK 280 million in the quarter, 15% EBITA margin.

Over to recycling. As Tove mentioned, we have good momentum in all markets and especially then Americas and Asia, which came in strong this quarter. So revenues are up 15% and compared to same quarter last year, currency adjusted, ending at NOK 617 million. Gross margin at 15%. It's up 2 percentage points compared to same quarter last year. And that since we have recuperated on the cost inflation. The main reason for the margin increase is coming from positive product mix.

Operating expenses is up 36%, ending at NOK 217 million. And comparing them to Q4, which is more correct, it's more or less flat currency adjusted. EBITA at NOK 92 million, a 15% EBITA margin. And then looking at the order picture in recycling order intake, up 49%, 30% currency adjusted. And then order backlog is up 53%, but 30% up currency adjusted, ending at NOK 1.309 billion. And then looking at that order backlog, we estimate a conversion of 60% going in as revenue in the next quarter. Then on Food, as Tove mentioned, we have had good momentum in processed food and then especially in our home markets, Europe and also in Americas, and then especially in category potatoes. So we managed a revenue increase of 15% currency adjusted compared to same quarter last year, ending at NOK 794 million. Gross margin at 37%, up 1% from same quarter last year.

Then operating expenses is up 28%, currency adjusted, ending at 343, which gives us a negative EBITA at NOK 49 million. Then looking at the order situation, then in Food, we have a negative order intake, currency adjusted at 9% and then an order backlog, currency adjusted, negative at 20%, ending at 1.243 million. And the main reason for that is that we have now had some setback in Fresh Food as Tove explained.

Given that order backlog at 1.2 billion, we estimate a conversion ratio of 80% going in as revenue in Q2. Then looking at our balance sheet and cash flow. We continue to have a strong balance sheet in TOMRA, and it's more or less flat since December. Currency adjusted, where 6% has a currency impact on the balance sheet as a total. And we have a very strong cash flow from operations, NOK 509 million compared to a more soft cash flow from operations in Q1 last year.

And the main reason for that is really the conversion of receivables in the quarter, the timing between the year-end and January, but also that we had a very strong December revenue when we look back at Q4. Equity at 48% and gearing at 1.2x. Looking at our financial position, we have a weighted average debt maturity at 2.8 years and unused credit lines of approximately NOK 1.4 billion.

Then looking at currency risk and hedging policy. So currency risk remains an important factor for TOMRA reporting in Norwegian kroners and then looking at the currency changes compared to Q1 last year. Dollar is up 16% and euro up 10%. So that has an impact on our reported figures, as you have seen.

Then on the outlook. So -- and starting with Collection, we expect high activity to continue when we are now preparing for new markets in Collection. But of course, this activity will depend -- will be dependent on when it comes -- and as you can see, we have some changes in the new markets when, for example, with the Scotland and the postponement, but still new markets are coming along. So talking more on the new markets that we are looking ahead of now.

Romania, will go live during the fall, and we had good sales in Q1, and we expect that also to continue for the next quarter. The Netherlands had also had good sales in the quarter. But we also expect that to continue going forward in the next quarter, and we expect it to have the same level at NOK 100 million in the next quarter. And then other markets in the pipeline is preparing for Hungary, but also Victoria. And then Scotland that has been postponed until next year.

We need to come back and how that really will prolong for TOMRA, but we are very much monitoring the situation from our side. And then mentioning Ireland and also Quebec, that will come in the fall and then towards 2025. Ramp-up costs is an important indicator. And we don't necessarily see an increase in the ramp-up costs as such, a bit higher activity currently but we estimate the ramp-up to be a NOK 200 million for the year as we had last year.

And then on the gross margin, which we have been able to increase somewhat this quarter. We expect that also to continue going forward and also into Q2, but then on a gradually improve and what we have seen this quarter. And then on Recycling, it is a promising pipeline and the momentum is assumed to continue. And what we said last quarter is that it will normalize from the high 2022 levels.

And clearly, we are delivering a good quarter now in Q1. We believe it's more correct than going forward into 2023 and looking at the future that it will be more normalized than what we have seen last year and this quarter. And then Recycling, the demand, as Tove said, is really on -- it's expected to continue as the circle economy continues to be an important driver, giving legislation, the industry demand, but also customer expectations.

And then on Food, short term, we see good demand in Processed Food, but somewhat weaker in Fresh Food, and we are monitoring that situation and see how that will prolong for TOMRA. But it's not a doubt that need for automization creates opportunities both mid and long term and as the labor is getting more and more expensive and also being a scarce force but also that the food safety is important and utilizing the full produce of the food element is important for our customers.

Looking at the cost inflation, we believe it will continue to be somewhat a pressure point, but we are confident that our pricing and cost measures are expected to have a mitigating effect also going forward.

As we have seen in this quarter. And then mentioning the sourcing shortages and the logistical bottlenecks, we see a lower risk on that side going forward.

Currency, important sector for TOMRA. We have seen that this quarter, and that will also continue as long as we report in Norwegian kroners.

And then mentioning a bit on the TOMRA Horizon side, we are investing in the new business building as Tove mentioned. And as you know, the more mature 1 is the TOMRA feedstock investment that we announced before Christmas, where we will invest NOK 50 million to EUR 60 million, EUR 1 million in the sorting plant in Germany. We have decided to continue to report feedstock as part of TOMRA Recycling also in 2023, and the other TOMRA Horizon activities as part of group's functions. And the run rate for OpEx for the TOMRA horizon is approximately NOK 80 million for the year.

And once the investment in the sorting facility in Germany, will come and hit our balance sheet. We will also inform the market of that. So until the business is fully up and running, we will not report that separately. But we will be transparent and give information along the way.

And with that, we can continue to the Q&A..

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

Thank you, Eva, and thank you, Tove. And I see we've already received quite a number of questions, so thank you very much for that, everyone who's tuning in.

And I think we'll start with a few questions on the growth in Collection. And one question from [indiscernible] in Jefferies is how should we think about the timing here of the growth in Collection? Will it be back in the old given what's happening in -- I mean, in the second half of 2023, given what's happening in new markets? And if you could say something about the lumpiness in that business.

[Eva Sagemo, executive]

Yes. So the growth in Collection, as we have communicated before, it's very difficult to be quite clear on that one. We operate in a market where new markets come and are announced and we try to be transparent on the moving parts in that.

And we also try to be transparent on how much revenues we have had from the new markets in the different quarters.

But it's not easy to estimate how that will be going forward, just mentioning and highlighting the activity that we see in the next quarter then and also in the longer run.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

And of course, you already mentioned some about it, but Scotland was delayed. Can we say anything about the budget we have for Scotland, what we expect there?

[Eva Sagemo, executive]

Yes. No, we don't necessarily disclose that kind of information and we don't necessarily disclose the market position in the different countries. But we are monitoring the situation in Scotland, and we are now very much fulfilling our obligations to our customers based on the contracts that we have signed. But not giving more information than that, Daniel.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

And do we see a question from [indiscernible]. Do we see any more opportunities in Australia?

[Tove Andersen, executive]

I can comment a bit. So as you saw, we have then been selected as one of the network operators in Victoria.

The tender in Tasmania is running. In Victoria it is a 5-year agreement. We always have the ambitions that if we do well during those 5 years, we could also increase our business there.

And of course, in Australia , as Australia is the throughput market. Our income is also impacted on how good we set up the system and how much beverage containers will then attract into our reverse vending machines. So higher collection rates.

And if we achieve that, we can also grow that business.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

Thank you. And -- moving over a little bit to the cost growth associated with the growth in Collection. We have a question from Marcus Helberg.

Please elaborate on the cost growth in Collection, why don't you have higher operating leverage considering revenue growth? And should we expect this cost level going forward?

[Tove Andersen, executive]

I can start high level, and then you can go a bit in the figures. The way we are operating in collection. And when you get new markets coming on stream, you need to establish an organization in a new market. So for example, Romania coming on stream in November.

You need to set up a local organization there linked to be able to do sales, but also very important, this service.

So for each new country, there needs to be a certain add-on. But of course, there is some operating leverage in more of our backbone on supply chain and production.

[Eva Sagemo, executive]

Yes. And I'm not sure if there is something more to add, we are operating with ramp-up on the new markets and collection, and that will vary along the way.

It is costly to go into new markets, and we are willing to invest that because we believe that, that will give future growth and good revenues in the future.

[Tove Andersen, executive]

So yes, I think it's also important to keep in mind when there is a throughput market going live, we take all that cost upfront before and then it will income will only come when the market goes live as the beverage containers is being collected that's also important to keep in mind.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

And continuing a little bit on costs and for the whole group. If the revenue growth remains as strong as it has, when can we start seeing operating leverage on the fixed cost base?

And could you say something more about the frame agreements and the renewals and the status on that thing, Collection, and that's Gaurav Jain in Barclays, who's asking.

[Tove Andersen, executive]

Yes. So if you look at our business model, there are, of course, certain elements where we have operating leverage, and there are certain elements where there is less operating leverage.

So if you look at the type of equipment we have on installation, you need physically go and install it on the service. We are doing more and more digital. So it's a bit, but also there is very much labor-intensive. And also, our production is mainly assembly. We don't really have enough equipment to really automate significantly, especially in sorting and food.

There is some more automation in happening in collection because we have the higher volume. So if you look at from our perspective that, of course, there is operating leverage.

We have set the target to be at 18% EBITA within 5 years. We have plans to get there, and part of those plans, it is operating leverage as well.

But also, I think it's important to understand that some of the kind of business that we are in is not really that automated. And that's why when you are growing, you will also see some growth both in the COGS and our kind of -- in the fixed costs going into the COGS and in the OpEx.

[Eva Sagemo, executive]

Yes. And then maybe on the contracts that you asked about on collection and the frame agreements, that was also part of the question. So we have been talking about this during 2022, what we are facing on the frame agreements. And we have also managed to set short-term price increases also in those contracts.

But that is negotiations ongoing to renew that and also to renew it when the contracts run out, which is then in -- during 2023 and then also some in 2024. But looking at the margin in collection, we are confident that we are now on the right track and that we will see a gradual improvement going into the next quarter and throughout the year.

[Tove Andersen, executive]

And also I forgot to say on the use of course, we are also investing in the future. So one thing is the running business where there will be some operating leverage, but you have the new markets or new segments coming on stream.

But also, of course, we are investing in the future. So we mentioned now, for example, Horizon, where we have then a run rate currently around NOK 80 million.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

And just then a follow-up on that from Aurelio Calderon in Morgan Stanley. Does that mean that the cost increase in Recycling, is that structural? Or how much of that is temporary, would you say?

[Tove Andersen, executive]

So Recycling is interesting because we have now been running with more than 20% growth over the last years. And when you have this kind of growth, especially since we need for each machine we install, we need people going out there install it for each machine that we have running.

We need people that are servicing and making sure that they are optimized. And this has been a challenge for the duration when you have 20% organic growth. And actually then you spend a bit extra time actually just recruiting and training and getting people on speed.

If you look in Recycling in our employee base there because of this high growth, less than -- or -- approximately 1/4 of our people have been there less than a year.

So we have in our cost base that we are not getting full efficiency out of because there is a lot of new people that we have recruited to be able to manage the growth we have and the growth we will have. But we believe now that we have a solid cost base and a solid organization in place that can deliver the more -- significantly more growth or revenue than what we have currently in the quarter.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

Thank you very much. We'll continue a little bit on Recycling. And could you talk a little bit more about the business model here. You talked about the [indiscernible] project. How should we look at that economically?

[Tove Andersen, executive]

Yes. So that first of all is an exciting project for us it's a large deal for the ore sorting segment. It's a typical sales and service deal very much as our typical commercial agreements in Recycling where we are then selling 10 sorters and then there will be sorting no service agreements following it.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

Okay. Also on Recycling, a question from Gaurav at Barclays. When a recycler like waste management automates a recycling facility, what is the opportunity for TOMRA. Who are the key competitors?

[Tove Andersen, executive]

Yes. So that is always a very good opportunity for us. And we do see now that many of these waste management companies like Waste Management. But those other waste management companies are now upgrading their facilities and also automate, but as automate, but also because they want to extract more material out of the waste stream before it goes to incineration.

So that is one of the drivers for the growth that we see in Recycling are these kind of developments. In the Recycling segment, we are the leader. We have a bit more than half of the market is our estimation on that.

Key competitors in that segment. It is really 2, it's PELLENC and STEINERT, one French private-owned company and a German private-owned company.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

And a question from Fabian Jorgensen also on Recycling. We have guided that the order intake growth will normalize, it significantly up -- to what extent is it driven by this one project that we are mentioning?

[Eva Sagemo, executive]

Yes. So it's part of it, but we are confident that what we have said -- what we are also saying now that we will see kind of like the growth going forward will be more normalized.

And -- that was not the case this quarter, and that is, of course, good for business, but what we see in the Horizon is really a normalized level.

So -- and maybe to elaborate a bit on what is normalized in TOMRA, it would be the 15-plus percent and not towards the 25%, 30% on the growth in order intake.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

And then we have a few questions on the profitability and EBITA Adel [indiscernible] and Jefferies is asking with profitability being weak in Q1, does this set the tone for the remainder of the year? When should we expect price increases, et cetera, to have an effect, and we also have a similar question from Eric Tristan, what we expect in the quarters going forward in terms of EBITA and EBITA margin.

[Eva Sagemo, executive]

Yes. So on the EBITA, we have the target to increase profitability over the next 5 years, and that's also what we are aiming for to increase the profitability. We have some elements then in Q1 that is impacting the profitability. Normally, Q1 is a softer quarter on the margins, especially then in Food. But also that we are working on the margins in Collection and recuperating what we saw last year on the pressure point and the margins. So that would also improve margins over time will also have an effect on the EBITA.

So we do not necessarily give estimates for the quarter ahead. but we have a clear target to increase our profitability in TOMRA.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

Thank you. And then we have a few questions coming in on Kezzler. Do you see potential for Kezzler in digital DRS Marcus Helberg [indiscernible] is asking?

[Tove Andersen, executive]

Yes. Perhaps actually first because it might not be that everybody knows what is meant by digital -- there is quite some developments to look at, can you have other solutions for a deposit system based on more a curbside selection system.

Also, we think potentially in emerging markets, it might be a different system than what we see in Europe where we typically have the reverse vending machines or a combination.

And if you're going to have that kind of a system where perhaps you will buy your bottles and containers and you will deposit them into bin somewhere and used then your iPhone or your Apple or your phone or your other Android phone to then scan it and get a deposit back. That will require serialization. So yes, serialization is a key enabler also for a potential different types of deposit return scheme. Based on mobile phone technology.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

And a follow-up on that. Is there a strategy to build a venture portfolio? Or should we expect larger ownership stakes that you currently have in Kezzler?

[Tove Andersen, executive]

So we don't have a strategy to build a venture portfolio. And that's also why I was said that this is really a strategic investment.

In TOMRA, we want -- in Horizon and in TOMRA Horizon and our main focus is to build really new businesses that can become part of TOMRA.

However, we don't then exclude sometimes that we do these kind of deals where we do a smaller stake because we believe that it is our strategic interest, but it's not part of our current strategy to have a portfolio of this.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

And going over to market shares, El Johnson, Nordea is asking. Could you provide some wording around market share going forward?

Are you hopeful that you will be able to keep your historical market share levels?

Or is it fair to assume that competition is increasing I guess that's not specific to any divisions as it's post, but...

[Tove Andersen, executive]

I think it's...

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

Probably Collection.

[Tove Andersen, executive]

Probably a Collection. Because a list where we typically get most questions linked to this. So also what we communicated last summer when we presented our updated targets -- we believe, of course, that there will continue being a tough competition also in the deposit market, especially then in new deposit markets.

We have had a large market share in the past. Our objective is, of course, to maintain that, but also we have built in a somewhat lower market shares in new markets.

But what we see so far is that due to our broad portfolio of products and our service organization, which is also a very important selling point that we are able to get good market shares overall, also in new markets.

And also our experience is that in new markets, even if we don't initially get the same market share that we have globally, due to really delivering well and customers experiencing the challenges if a reverse vending machine is not running or if you don't get the service technician there fast, that we can also then grow our market shares over time. So to summarize in a way to meet our ambitions on doubling.

We don't need to maintain exactly the market share we had in the past, but we do expect still to have a significant market share, and we always aim to get as much of the market as possible.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

Okay. Thank you. And we have a few more questions on the costs on OpEx. Andreas Nygard in Kepler Cheuvreux asking, could you quantify the impact from business expansion optimization initiatives in Q1? And I will add a couple of questions as well. We also got a question from Marcus Helberg has to be if collection growth comes down from high levels in Q1.

Will OpEx be impacted. And -- yes -- please go head.

[Eva Sagemo, executive]

Yes. So on the business expansion and optimization initiatives in Q1, I would more talk a bit around on this 1 general on this one. We say that we invest in future business. And with that, we mean new markets in Collection. We invest in R&D and also business building.

So normally, we would operate around 8% to 10% of our revenues, investing in new business. And then we are talking about the ramp-up in collection that we have estimated to be 200 for the year, and that can also vary between the quarters, but not necessarily.

And then also we had -- now we have also given the run rate on the TOMRA Horizon business building. And then on the OpEx level, on the new markets and Collection, and I think I also answered this one.

It's not necessarily that we will see very high fluctuations on the new market ramp-up cost quarter-over-quarter, and we will be transparent if that will happen, if that will increase going forward.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

Thank you, Eva. We have one question also from Adel [indiscernible] and Jefferies. Are you seeing any early indications of investment sentiment among customers weakening due to the macroeconomic environment?

[Tove Andersen, executive]

Yes. So as I commented in general, I think in all our divisions, there is still a good market sentiment with the exception of the fresh food. And that's where we have seen a weakening sentiment. Linked then to a combination of general uncertainty linked to the macroeconomic, but also specific incidents linked to severe weather conditions. We are monitoring that situation carefully, and we also have put in mitigating actions linked to that to make sure that we can secure and safeguard the profitability in fresh also during such a period.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

A couple of final 2 questions on OpEx. One from Eric, OpEx in Recycling has been 260 million to 270 million in the last 2 quarters and you're saying that capacity buildup is largely completed.

Does that mean we should expect that cost level in the next few quarters, and we also had a question if the 1 billion OpEx in the quarter is sort of run rate going forward?

[Eva Sagemo, executive]

Yes. So that is the case that what we see now in the run rate in OpEx in general across all the business divisions this quarter and also last quarter, is a representative level for the coming quarters and the full year. So as Tove mentioned I said, we have mentioned before, we have built up the organization in Recycling and yes.

So this is the run rate that we will work towards in the coming quarters.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

And just a final question, a final reminder to our audience, a question for Marcus Helberg. What is local currency growth in order intake Eva?

[Eva Sagemo, executive]

Yes. So as we said in the presentation, in food, on the order intake, we are down 9% on the order intake compared to first quarter last year. And then we have an order intake growth currency adjusted at 30% in TOMRA Recycling.

[Daniel Sundahi, executive]

Thank you very much. And I think that was the last of the questions that we have received. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. We have now reached the end of the presentation, and we will be back here on the 14th of July with our second quarter results next time. Thank you very much, and have a nice day.