Hydrogenpro ASA

OSE:HYPRO

Earnings Call Transcript 2022-Q2

[Operator]

Good morning, all good people. Welcome to the presentation of HydrogenPro. My name is Richard Espeseth, and I will walk you through this together with my CFO, Martin Holtet. We will talk about some introduction and then the second quarter highlights. And Martin will talk about the business update, including the financials. I will talk about the technology, the leadership and also make a short summary in the end. And after there again, it's open for questions.

First, I started the company in 2013, and I was the CEO, the first 7 years. We started very carefully with just 2 people and we're growing slowly, slowly all the way up to October 2020.

In the beginning, we was a distributor. We had a partnership in China. So our manufacturing capacity in the beginning was actually 0. The backlog was about NOK 15 million, which was mostly engineering jobs. Sales pipeline was pretty good. It started already in 2020 with 1.5 gigawatt.

And in October, we were listed at Euronext Growth, and this gave us the opportunity to really develop in the direction we wish to go. So in the 2 years that have passed, we have now invested the money we get from the investors carefully. We have been taking steps to be firstly an OEM. We are the owner of the technology. We have built our own factories. We have a 300-megawatt production capacity as of today. And most appreciating, we have a backlog now on firm orders of close to NOK 800 million.

When we look at the sales activity and the pipeline, it is 10x bigger today than only 2 years ago, which clearly indicate this market is hot. There is a lot of activities out there and the push is even harder and harder for each month to go, and we see we are contacted on a daily basis about big, big, big projects.

Finally, we are now in the process of getting uplisted to Oslo Stock Exchange. That will be the next transformation from our part.

I will say the first big highlight, it is we have been now selected to be the supplier of the biggest electrolyzer plant in the world. And it feels so good to have a bird in your hand instead of having so many, many up there on the roof and the bird is really big. So this is a 220-megawatt electrolysis plant. And the whole idea behind it, it is to collect electricity when it is available from renewable sources, and the electricity will be used to produce hydrogen gas and store it under the ground.

So it works like a big, big, big battery. And you can take the hydrogen out exactly when wish to, and you can use it to whatever application you also wish to. There is no technical difference between gray hydrogen, blue hydrogen, green hydrogen, it's all H2. It's just a matter of colors when it comes to where do the electricity come from in the beginning or do you use fossil fuel that -- this project is for green hydrogen only.

And the project, it is in Utah in the U.S. And the target, it is to have everything installed by end of 2024. So there is a lot of work ongoing. And this is what we are focusing on mostly these days.

The second big thing, which is the new Inflation Reduction Act in the U.S. It is signed by President Biden for up to EUR 3 -- $3 for each kilogram of green hydrogen. And back again to the name green, it means electrolysis plants. And when it means electrolysis plant, it also means that the electricity to be green, needs to come from a renewable source like solar or wind or hydro.

And again, we are in a very, very good position because to be able to connect your electrolyzer to a renewable energy source, it means the DC flow through the electrolyzer, it goes up and down depending on the availability of electricity. So high pressure alkaline or PEM, they are the only units as of today, which is usable into this setting.

So by this HydrogenPro, we are increasing now our presence in the U.S. We are, of course, focusing on the first big delivery we will do together with Mitsubishi. We are also focusing on the DG Fuel. I just was 2 weeks in the U.S. I had very, very good talks with them, and it is so many good inputs about this project. So we are now in the process of employing key people in HydrogenPro Inc. in the U.S., and we are in the progress to also develop factories because we need more production capacity. We have a great product, and we see that it will be many, many, many jobs to bid on. And many of them, we will win. And then we also need to be able to deliver.

When you look at the time line from the IPO in 2020, our production manufacturing was 0. Today, it's 300-megawatt. And the target now is to have an additional 500-megawatt in the U.S. and also another 500-megawatt in Europe, where also talks are ongoing. We foresee in the longer term, we will need at least 5 gigawatt of production capacity annually to meet the need, which is now rising.

So with this short introduction and the highlights, I like to hand the word over to Martin, who will talk about the business update and the financials. So see you soon again.

[Martin Holtet, executive]

Thank you. Thank you, Richard. So let me then try to sort of recall some key takeaways from your introduction. Number one, we have become an OEM technology owner. Number two, we have been awarded the largest purchase order in the U.S. and now with Inflation Reduction Act in the U.S., we will step up our efforts in the U.S. to become a large player there, in addition to the growth plans in Europe.

So by that, I will now walk you through the business update for the quarter. So in the quarter, we had a positive operating cash flow and increased the cash balance to NOK 435 million. We -- in early April, we were awarded one of the largest purchase orders globally and the largest purchase order in the U.S. at an amount in excess of USD 50 million. And on top of that, we also signed a 10-year service and support agreement with Mitsubishi Power Americas.

Later in April, we were awarded a purchase order of USD 3 million for an electrolyzer system that will be shipped to Japan to the Takasago Hydrogen Park. And then in late the second quarter, we completed the fabrication of the world's largest single-stack system -- alkaline electrolyzer system, which is now being shipped to Herøya, where it will arrive in a few days' time to then be installed and commissioned before it will be operating in that -- very close to our headquarters at Herøya in Norway.

And we have now started to report on our backlog, and we ended the quarter with a backlog of NOK 794 million and active sales pipeline stood at 15.4 gigawatts, which then is -- equates to 109 projects. And lastly, during last week, we submitted the application to uplist on the main board on the Oslo Stock Exchange. And then me for as a CFO, I see this as a very natural step. We have now among the largest order books in the industry. And we need now, of course, want to invite several new shareholders to be able to trade in the HydrogenPro stock.

So by that, I will go -- walk you through a bit more details on the Q2 financials. So we -- in the quarter, we generated revenues of NOK 7.8 million. This is more or less all related to the electrolyzer system, which now has been completed fabrication on in China. And we then recognize revenues according to the percentage of completion principle. On top of that, there are a couple of engineering studies or feed studies as well.

The quarter ended with an adjusted EBITDA of NOK 19.9 million because we are still investing in new systems and in the organization in order to deliver on the large orders that we were awarded in April. In the quarter, we invested NOK 20 million, which is mainly related to the acquisition in China. And in China, we received a business license in early June. And that is now fully controlled by HydrogenPro with the CEO as well from which we have presented earlier, a Norwegian guy with a long experience from running similar setups for companies operating with headquarters from -- in Europe.

And we had a positive cash flow in the quarter. We ended the quarter with NOK 435 million. And on the -- in the middle of the lower part of the slide, you will see the breakdown. So we started the quarter with approximately NOK 369 million. Then we had NOK 19.9 million in negative EBITDA, NOK 20 million in investments. And here we can see that there was a chunk then of NOK 106.5 million with a positive effect. And that positive effect is mainly then driven by the prepayment under the large order that was received from Mitsubishi then in the second quarter.

And we have a backlog of NOK 794 million and an order intake during the quarter of NOK 773 million. That backlog consists mainly of a firm purchase order more than 3/4 is firm purchase orders and the remaining part is then an estimate on service revenues.

So if we sort of zoom out a bit, look at the sort of the bigger picture, since the IPO in October 2020, we have had a net spend of approximately NOK 100 million. And we have spent those funds on becoming an OEM, an original equipment manufacturer, where we own technology and IP rights. We have one of the largest backlogs in the industry, and we are now stepping up.

And I think this proves that our business model works. It's possible to have capital discipline in this market and grow the business as you go along. And that's important for me -- for us from a CFO perspective as well. It's possible to grow and invest in line with the development in this market.

Looking then at the future, we have a very focused investment plan. And as presented earlier, we want to scale up in cooperation with large industrial partners and combine that with keeping our disciplined and focused capital deployment plan, spending the funds on global manufacturing capacity, on technology leadership, on scaling up the organization and on -- and potentially on working capital need, then on executing larger projects.

So if you now look into the second quarter, we are now in the phase of completing the fabrication facility in China in order to execute on the larger purchase orders. And it -- an estimate is that we will have now approximately NOK 45 million of remaining CapEx to have 300 megawatts in production capacity. And an additional capital spend then during the second -- main sort of capital spend during the second half of this year is the working capital need to execute the large purchase orders.

And thirdly, of course, we will continue to build up the systems and organization. But again, we have a strong capital discipline in this company.

At the end of the quarter, the active sales pipeline came in at 15.4 gigawatts. That was an increase from 12.7 gigawatts at end of first quarter. The number of projects amount to 109, up from 97 projects in Q1. And then the average size of the pipeline is then 141 megawatts per project.

And if you only look at the delta, then during Q2, meaning new projects, the average size of those projects are some 225 megawatts. And that is key for us because our high-pressure alkaline system is very, very well suited for large-scale applications. And that's a clear trend in the market the projects are getting bigger and also the clients are getting bigger. And we're now positioning ourselves for the larger energy majors through ongoing FEED studies. And important to say as well, these companies are not that dependent on the funding schemes as they are typically smaller players that entered this industry at an earlier stage.

So by that Richard, let us -- I'll let you then walk you through the Section 3, technology leadership.

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

Thank you, Martin, and also thank you for taking well care of our money and investing them carefully.

We are a technology company. And we -- of course, we have all the technology and the IP rights, which put us in a position to operate freely where we find it's more suitable. And that turns into the global footprint. As we mentioned earlier, it is very important now to also have a complete supply chain and production and assembly in north part of America. And a similar step we will need to take in Europe.

And by doing this, we also see the scalability we have developed now a 5.5-megawatt electrolyzer, which is supposed to be same and same and same, copy and paste all over. And this is the same when we're building 100 megawatts, 200 megawatts plant, we put together sets of this electrolyzer. So it totally comprise of a whole plant with similar units. And each of them works independently. So we have a maximum with flexibility.

In this electrolyzer business, it is like everything else, when after 10, 12 years, the product comes to a lifetime where it is needed to open it up, to replace things inside, to refurbish it and to put it back into business again. So it's important for us to reuse as much as possible on the bits and pieces in the plant.

One of the key things in the electrolyzer, I call it a heart in electrolyzer, it is the electrode. And that was also one of the investment we did was to buy 100% of the Advanced Surface Plating in Denmark. We were working with them for many, many, many, many years before the IPO. So we were old friends. We did the job together and now we're one team. And what we are doing, we're testing and testing and testing.

And as you can see on the second picture here, it says on graphs. And in the electrolysis business, it works like this. When you run electricity through the electrolyzer, there is a linear equation for how much gas you produce. In a practical life, it means if you increase the DC current with 5%, the output of hydrogen will be 5% more. If you double the current density, the output of gas will be double. So that's also important to keep in mind when people talk about what is the production capacity of your electrolyzer, you need to state at what current density. So you compare apples-to-apples.

So what we are doing with the new electrodes? We are also doing more life -- long-time testing. So we have 2 other smaller containers in Herøya, where we have the new technology inside, and we are running and running and we will keep on running until we have all the needed data to be able to give firm guarantees when we sell this new product in the large scale.

And a little bit back to money, electricity is by far the most important part of producing 1 kilogram with green hydrogen. And as you can see here, the dark -- the green piece of the cake, it is just electricity cost. It can be 70%, 80%, 90% of the total cost. It will depend on how expensive the electricity is. And we know everyone today, oil, gas, energy, electricity, everything becomes more and more expensive.

So you might think, is it any room now for selling electrolyzer when electricity is so expensive. Yes, it is because the global warming doesn't stop, even though the electricity price goes up. But the nice thing for us, it is the more expensive the electricity gets, the more piece of the pie will be the total cost, maybe 90%, maybe more than 90%.

And with our new technology, we will need 14% less electricity. So this is the game changer. We can compete with gray hydrogen with this new technology. And I'd like to say something about electrolyzers. In general, we have the PEM electrolyzers. They have been around for some few decades. We have the alkaline atmospheric electrolyzer, have been around for 100 years. And then we have the alkaline high pressure, which was born about 50 years ago. All those are well proven, and they are all good. Some of them are better in one way and maybe not so good in another way.

And this is a general picture of this market and these products and the technology they represent. As you see on the top of the line, it says plant efficiency. And with the new HydrogenPro, the alkaline high pressure with zero-gap technology out on the side, we have the highest efficiency available on the market.

And another thing, when you produce hydrogen gas from a renewable source, might be wind or solar, electricity goes like this up and down. And the only 2 systems that is suitable for taking this load like this, it is the PEM and it's the alkaline high-pressure units. And that put us in a very favorable position for the U.S. project, where renewable electricity is the source for input.

And then -- when you have high efficiency, it means automatically, you have less losses. And when you have less losses, you generate less heat, and again, you need less cooling water. For us here in Norway, maybe cooling water is no big deal. But in other areas, where it's even warmer and even more high value on the water, it is really an advantage to not be so depending on a huge volume of cold water.

When we come to the overhaul, it's representing how many years can you really run the system before you need to turn it off and open it, refurbish everything inside. And with the life span we have, this is the most attractive system available today.

And then it's -- and another part for me, as an engineer, when I do some design, I need to choose materials. And there is one thing I like to avoid, and that is noble materials because the bigger my production would be then the more expensive the product will be, but we are only using carbon steel. We take the carbon steel, we do the nickel coating. And for other steel, we are using stainless. So those 2 materials are easily available all over the planet, make us sure when the volume becomes really big, cost goes down.

And finally, when you produce 1 kilogram of hydrogen gas, you automatically get 8 kilograms of oxygen for free. And this oxygen can be used in different applications and have this oxygen already pressurized for free inside electrolyzer, make it easy to transport them via pipeline to the final destination that might be a fish farming industry or whatever.

So with this comparison between the technologies, we also feel we really have now a good product. And we are producing this new product. The first manufacturing unit, which is completed, it is in Tianjin, in China, where you see the pictures, the upper left picture, it's from the new machines we have invested in. The picture just below, it is from the nickel-coating facility. It's about 1-hour drive away. And the nickel-coating facility actually have a capacity for 600-megawatt each year.

So if we double again the machinery capacity, we are still good on the nickel-coating side. When you still look at the nickel-coating picture, you see 2 round things on the left-hand side, those are the electrodes. And those are the electrodes coated, which is in the electrolyzer on the way to Porsgrunn now for testing.

In the same picture, there is a second line on the other side, that is where we are doing the dip coating or the big pressure tanks, we put on the top of the gas separator unit. And that actually have an annual capacity for 6 gigawatt. So that's about China.

In Denmark, which is the 2 lower pictures, that's where we are producing our new electrodes.

And by switching further on from China and Denmark over to Norway, our headquarter is in Porsgrunn and this is -- Herøya is outside our doorstep. And if you look at the 3 pictures again, the biggest picture that's the base of the gas separator skid that has arrived Herøya. It is a big boy. Further picture to the right, it's the electrolyzer itself. I heard that will be the heaviest lift ever done on Herøya. It's more than 80 tonnes, and it will arrive by the end of this week. So that was basically about our technology and production.

Now summary. We have secured more than $50 million sales order for the 40 electrolyzers for the American project. The total backlog we have is close to NOK 800 million and advanced electrode technology is tested. We will continue to test it and 14% less need of electricity is what we have seen so far. We are working now with global fabrication expansion both in North America and in Europe. And there is a strong public commitment for green hydrogen. That's important to remember. It's for the green hydrogen, and there is also a big need in the world for more renewable energy sources.

So that's what we have done so far. And I'm very, very proud of our team about what we have achieved these last 2 years. It had been like a rocket. It has been developing slowly, slowly, slowly for 7 years. And then finally, when you get the need -- the tool you need to expand, then we have transit from being a distributor to an OEM in 2 years.

And with this 2022 is not finished yet, it's still 4 months left. Our most important exam yet will be now this year to complete the following. The hydrogen plant at Herøya will be installed, commissioned, tested. And then we will have, in parallel, a long-term testing of the advanced electrode technology also ongoing.

Martin and his team is working on the uplisting process in Oslo. And finally, we all together, as one team, we have the target to sign both partnership for production in the U.S. and similar in Europe. So we will have an increase of production capacity with 1 extra gigawatt in 2023.

So thank you for the time you have taken to listen to us. So Martin, should we see if there is any questions.

[Martin Holtet, executive]

Yes.

[Unknown Executive]

Let's do. Okay. Welcome to this Q&A session, and there are some questions, and I will just address them to the 2 of you and you decide which one of you are going to answer them. Let's start with the first one. Are there any conditions for the listing in Oslo Stock Exchange that are not fulfilled yet? And if so, which is not fulfilled.

[Martin Holtet, executive]

Yes. So first of all, we fulfilled all other criteria in terms of the market cap, free float in the share, number of shareholders, et cetera. But an uplisting requires us to convert the company from a private limited company to a public limited company, meaning that we will need to hold a general meeting to resolve that conversion. And that's basically -- that's the major sort of remaining part in addition to having an Audit Committee and Nomination Committee as well. So we will then call for a general meeting prior to the first trading day on the main board on Oslo Stock Exchange.

[Unknown Executive]

Okay. Then we have one question related to the electrolyzer arriving at Herøya [ and demo ]. And the question is, why hasn't it arrived before? And when you start to test how long will it take? And how long is this supposed to last?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

The gas operator has arrived already the electrolyzer itself, it's on the sea now and the estimated day of lifting it from the ship over to Herøya, it's Friday this week. It is normally needed 2 to 3 weeks to do the electrical work and the piping and additional 2 to 3 weeks to do the commissioning. So it means we will be running by either late -- or mid or late October. And then the test will be ongoing for 1 to 2 months. So before year-end, we will have the result.

[Unknown Executive]

Okay. And related to the U.S. market, is it an approvers missing from HydrogenPro side for delivery to the U.S. market?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

No. Well, all the equipment need to be UL listed, that is easy, and we also need to be ASME certified, which we already have been. So no showstopper.

[Unknown Executive]

HydrogenPro claim that they have built the largest electrolyzer however, Nel, they have an electrolyzer named A3880. And isn't that 3x bigger than yours?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

Yes. That's kind of right to say the number is bigger. I've been working also many, many, many years for Nel. That was when [ Noskidru ] was the owner. I was also in the managing group. I was also responsible for the production. Nel's electrolyzer, the maximum output is 485 cubic meter per hour at atmospheric pressure. And for them to produce more than 485, they need to put together 2 or 3 or 10 or more units. But when you compare apples-to-apples again, it is important, as I told, when you look at the current density, you need to be on the same standard. And also, when you talk about the total capacity, you need to talk how many cell stacks do you need to fulfill that. So we are more than double the size of what Nel is.

[Unknown Executive]

Another question then. Any news on the test electrolyzer in Japan?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

Well, the Japanese have never imported any high-pressure electrolyzer before. They have one local producer also producing atmospheric versions. So during the order and the contract signature, we also had to promise to fulfill all those requirements. And that is completed. We have been approved by the Japanese KHK. So we are now the only high-pressure electrolyzer producer who can transport electrolyzers into the Japanese market.

[Unknown Executive]

Okay. What is the going price in the market for [ EG ] 10-megawatt electrolyzer, is USD 2 million to 2.5 million a fair assessment? And are prices still trending down?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

I think the most important for the end user, it is when you like to build a house, you need to see the total cost of the piece of land, the building, everything. You cannot just look at the cost of the kitchen. And this is the same in the electrolyzer business. We need to compare apples-to-apples and you need to include the total balance of the plant, which is transformers, rectifiers, electrical system, you have a control system, you have an electrolyzer, a gas separator system, et cetera.

And outside the factory, you need a cooling water system, and you also need a drain system, et cetera. So it's not so easy to say the cost of each megawatt is so or so much. You need to tell what's included. But what I can confirm is that we have been awarded the biggest contract ever. And that means we need to have some advantages compared to others. But the total cost for the plant for the final owner, I don't know.

[Unknown Executive]

Can you give some guidance on the revenues and EBITDA in the second half of '22? That's one question. And the other, the orders are in place and the plant is reportedly close to completed, how good is the internal visibility?

[Martin Holtet, executive]

Yes. So in terms of sort of guiding on revenues and earnings, we -- so as a general principle, we do not provide guiding. But as mentioned, we are now stepping up and will start then the manufacturing process of the purchase orders this autumn. And in the P&L, you would -- you're likely to see the largest impact then from the fourth quarter and onwards.

But beyond that, we don't guide on margins. But what I can say is that, yes, we have the fabrication facility in China. In Europe and in the U.S., you have seen a spike in raw material prices like steel and nickel, which are 2 key components for us, but you have not seen the same impact in China. And we monitor the situation and we also then arrange then price hedging with sub-suppliers in order to have visibility on the margin.

[Unknown Executive]

One question related to the project in the U.S. Do you only provide the electrolyzer stack and do you not deliver the balance of plant as well? And the second question then is -- and I guess, I know the answer, but what gross margin do you expect from that project?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

For the scope of supply, the -- in our system, the electrolyzer and the gas separator belongs together as one set. So we are delivering the electrolyzers and the gas separators, and we are also doing part of the engineering, et cetera, but we don't deliver the transformer, the rectifier, et cetera. That's out of our scope.

[Unknown Executive]

Then also one technology question. I think that's the last one. How do you see the competitive landscape in alkaline? Are you fearful of the high current density for the TK [indiscernible] system and 20-megawatt modules?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

If you drive your car on your motorway in 100-kilometer per hour, you have a certain fuel consumption. If you speed up to 200, you will come faster to the target but you will use more gasoline. It is similar now in the electrolyzer business. So I think we -- I lost some of the questions, sorry.

[Unknown Executive]

Competitive landscape.

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

Yes. In the competitive landscape, I see us to be in the lead because with the new electrode technology, even if you speed up to -- double speed compared to what have been normal, the total energy use will still be less in our system. So that means, typically, you need 50-kilowatt hours to produce 1 kilogram of hydrogen. With a new system we have, you need very roughly 42-kilowatt hours. And in the new system, even if you speed it up to double current density, we are less than 50-kilowatt hours. That's the best comparison I can give you.

[Martin Holtet, executive]

And of course, this now becomes increasingly important with higher power prices, energy prices globally.

[Unknown Executive]

Do you have any updates on the MoU with L&T in India?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

Well, we are still a small company. So we have to focus. Now we are building up still in China and Denmark. We are now negotiating the same in North America and also now starting in Europe. So we have to put priority first on those 2 markets. That's the answer to that one.

[Unknown Executive]

And a question related to the sales pipeline, what are the criteria to be qualified as an active sales pipeline?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

That means we need to have provided a written and signed offer to the client.

[Martin Holtet, executive]

Which will of course consists of both sort of indicative offers and then binding offers.

[Unknown Executive]

How much of the pipeline are in bidding process together with Mitsubishi?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

I'm not sure if I have this calculation, but it's relatively small, actually percentage is very, very small.

[Unknown Executive]

During the presentation, you also mentioned a 10-year service contract to the U.S. contract or linked to the U.S. contract. What is the value of this service contract over 10 years? And what does it consist of?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

I'm not sure if we can go into these details, but -- Martin?

[Martin Holtet, executive]

I think it's quite easy for you to triangulate. So if you recall that I said that's approximately then 3/4 of the pipeline then consisted of firm purchase orders. Of course, the remaining part then of the quarter is then related to this service contract, meaning then close to USD 20 million.

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

And I think that is also a very good question about this service contract because in the long run, when you have delivered 1 gigawatt, 2 gigawatt, 10 gigawatts, it's an automatically generation of after sales and service because the design life of our electrolyzer is 30 years, and that means we are going through 2 of these overhauls during the lifetime. So this is a repeating business.

And we also -- when we design a new electrode, the next version, et cetera, it is made to retrofit exactly into the old electrolyzers. So that means the old body we have today can, with a new electrode, get a new life with better performance. You don't need to change anything else. The transformer, the rectifier, the outside body, everything can be the same. So in 20, 30 years, the biggest turnover we will have is service and aftersales.

[Unknown Executive]

One question related to FEED studies. Is it possible to get some more information on where you are doing FEED studies and how large these projects are?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

At the moment, we are doing 3 FEED studies. And in many cases, when we do this job, we have already agreed with the energy major to not disclose all these details. I think we can look back into this question, maybe next time we meet here on the TV.

[Unknown Executive]

One question. I guess you have answered it, but I forward the question anyhow. Will you be EBITDA positive in Q4 '22, Martin?

[Martin Holtet, executive]

No. Again, I think it's important to say that, yes, we have a strong capital discipline. We are able to grow this company both through securing an ownership on technology and being a leader on technology and keep a relatively low cash burn rate. But that said, it's still important for us to scale up fast. And of course, that will also drive costs.

So I'm not -- I'm tempted to give you a clear answer to that, but we are not providing the margin guidance on that because it's very, very key for us to now scale up globally. We see that the technology we have is demanded by the market, and it's sort of key priority is to scale up fast.

[Unknown Executive]

And then are you ready for the last question? How does U.S. tariffs impact Chinese-made electrolyzers, if at all?

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

Today, there is a tariff of exporting these kind of goods from China to the U.S. So by having the local supply chain in the U.S. you will save on the transport, and you will save on this tariff. And that's also a very big step, and it's an important step for us now to be in the U.S. And that's not only to save on those 2 things, that is to be there to secure the aftersales market. And many, many Americans, they love America, and to buy an American-produced product is more attractive than something from outside.

[Unknown Executive]

Okay. And I think this then concludes the Q&A session.

[Richard Espeseth, executive]

Okay. Thank you for listening, and wish you a nice day all of you. Bye-bye. Thank you.