Hexagon Purus ASA

OSE:HPUR

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q2

[Mathias Meidell, executive]

Hi, and welcome to Hexagon Purus Q2 2023 Presentation. My name is Mathias Meidell, and I am the Director of Investor Relations in Hexagon Purus. And I will be moderating from the studio in Oslo. And from the studio, I'm also joined by our Group CEO, Morten Holum; and Group CFO, Salman Alam.

The agenda for today includes highlights from the quarter, a company update, financials and the outlook. We will end the presentation with a Q&A session. So please feel free to enter your questions via the function on your screen or alternatively send your questions to [e-mail].

And with that, I will pass over the word to you, Morten, who will take us through the highlights of the quarter.

[Morten Holum, executive]

Thank you, Mathias, and good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us this morning. We've put another good quarter behind us, steadily executing the business plan and moving the company forward. So I'm excited to share the highlights from the quarter with you.

Four key highlights for the second quarter. Number one, we continue to have strong commercial traction with solid revenue growth and a growing pipeline. Number two, we signed a second multiyear agreement with a major truck OEM in North America for battery electric utility trucks, where we will deliver similar content to the Hino deal that we announced earlier this year. Number three, we signed another multiyear agreement for hydrogen distribution modules, this time with one of the leading global oil and gas companies. These modules will be used to transport hydrogen to refueling stations, demonstrating that the oil and gas majors are now starting to position themselves in the hydrogen distribution and refueling game.

And finally, number four, Hexagon Composites completed the dividend in kind of parts of its holding in Hexagon Purus. Last one, maybe not a great achievement for us per se, but it enables a significant increase in the free float and trading liquidity of the Hexagon Purus share, and by that improves the overall attractiveness of the share. So let's dig into revenue.

On the left, revenue in Q2 was NOK 330 million, up 57% from Q2 last year. We had some pushouts of deliveries from Q2 to Q3. So the second half of the year is shaping up to be stronger than the first half.

In the middle chart, you see that LTM revenue continues to climb upwards, 60% up from last year and is now standing at NOK 1.168 billion. And the order book at quarter end grew to NOK 1.4 billion, roughly 65% of that is for delivery this year and the remaining 35% or so is for delivery in 2024.

Overall, I'm satisfied with the development in Q2. I had expected the order book for 2024 to be a bit larger given the high commercial activity that we had during the quarter. But the finalization of some contracts took a bit longer than expected. I'm not concerned, though. It has increased by another NOK 100 million or so since quarter end. So I'm quite confident that the coverage of '24 will continue to increase as we move towards year-end.

And of course, I'm happy to see that we continue to successfully execute our plans and deliver on the planned revenue growth. The main driver for revenue growth continues to be hydrogen infrastructure. There is a significant need to move hydrogen around, and our distribution module is the most cost-effective way of doing that, far better than the traditional metal tube transportation solutions. So we have an offering that's in the money for the existing mainly gray hydrogen business. Because of that, we keep taking market share away from the traditional solutions. There is significant potential to keep doing that. And on top of it, we also steadily captured the growth from the emerging green hydrogen segment.

We're operating more or less at full capacity in this business, so it's already running at positive EBITDA margins. And as we have announced before, we are running an expansion program that will more than double our capacity for distribution modules. This program will be completed in Q4 this year, and that will enable us to continue growing this business next year and beyond.

Outside of distribution, mobility was flat in the quarter with transit a bit higher and rail a bit lower. Most of the mobility segments have not yet reached the commercial stage. So volume will continue to move up and down depending on the timing of the OEM project completions.

Then in Other, aerospace was up again after a dip last quarter. And we also had some maritime deliveries in Q2, mainly hydro and storage cylinders for an inland river vessel in Europe. Again, outside of Hydro & Distribution, things will be a bit lumpy until the serial volume starts kicking in, which is not that far away now. I'll come back to that later. Overall, good second quarter, executed on plan.

Then late Sunday night, we signed a second long-term agreement with a major truck OEM in North America for battery electric vehicles. This one is for classic vocational trucks or utility trucks, as they're also called. We will deliver similar content as for the Hino contract that we signed earlier in the year based on a rolling chassis. With an eAxle, we will integrate the truck with our own electric drivetrain components. We'll use our own industry-leading battery systems, the other proprietary power management and drivetrain components and the vehicle-level software.

You may wonder what a utility truck is, but you will most likely have seen many of them around because they're everywhere. Utility trucks are vehicles used by municipalities and public utility companies to perform specific tasks related to public infrastructure. Like for example, boom trucks used to maintain power lines or light poles, street sweepers like the one you can see in these pictures. They typically travel short distances, but will often have a need for additional power offtake.

So a battery electric solution works perfectly. So instead of a diesel truck that sometimes even tow a diesel generator behind it to provide power offtake beyond what the truck engine can give, a battery electric person can pull all that energy from the battery. And these kind of truck applications typically have duty cycles that don't require fast charging. They're mostly operated during the day and can trickle charge back in a depot at night. That's a big plus.

Not having to wait for a network of fast chargers to be rolled out makes it possible to drive adoption faster. And our battery systems are perfect for these trucks given the industry-leading energy density of our packs along with the compact form factor. So we're super excited about this contract.

The first deliveries will happen already next year, and the estimated value of the agreement is around $150 million or NOK 1.5 billion. Given the overall size of the utility truck segment, we see significant potential for our solutions beyond the value of this particular contract. So during the past few months, we have landed 2 major contracts in the battery electric space worth more than $2 billion, well north of NOK 20 billion.

I'd like to pause for a moment and try to explain why we and Hexagon Purus managed to land these types of contracts. We have a long history in the trucking business. As a carve-out from Hexagon Composites, we carry the legacy of Hexagon Agility with more than 20 years experience working with OEMs, integrating large heavy energy storage systems on to heavy-duty trucks.

We understand trucking. We understand the product, the customers, the duty cycles. So that's 20 years of building trust with the OEMs. We have worked closely with several of them for a number of years now in development projects. We have worked with Toyota since 2017 on their fuel cell truck development. We worked with Daimler on their battery electric innovation fleet since 2018. We worked with Hino on their Project Z from 2020. And through that, we have developed a portfolio of best-in-class drivetrain components and technology for battery electric and fuel cell electric trucks. And this now makes us highly relevant as a discussion partner and a development partner in the early stages of vehicle platform development and a strategic supplier to the OEMs to help them achieve their sustainability targets.

This is part of a very clear strategy. We have consciously made choices and investments over the past years, and we now sit with a very relevant and competitive technology portfolio that will drive our North American business in the coming years. We have a unique market position.

And now there are strong regulatory forces propelling our business forward. There's a lot happening in the U.S. right now. On state level, in places like California, there are several regulations like the advanced clean truck and advanced clean fleet regulations mandating steady increases of 0 emission trucks on the road. And there are positive incentives for both manufacturers and end users to equalize the additional cost of the trucks in the early years. And on top of that, the IRA provides additional strong incentives also on federal level. So over the next 2 years, we expect the 0 emission market in North America to grow tremendously.

And we have the unique market position in this segment, a trusted development partner and supplier to OEMs. Best-in-class technology, strong regulatory tailwinds, this will be a lot of business here in the coming years. So we have already started to assess our North American footprint, evaluating when and where to expand this footprint to serve the additional demand. This now also demonstrates the nice balance in our business portfolio.

We're not just a hydrogen company. We're a broad zero-emission technology supplier in both the battery electric space and in the hydrogen space. And remember, batteries are also relevant for fuel cell trucks, which will soon come to market in larger volume as well. And I've said many times before, these are not competing technologies. They are complementary technologies. And being competitive in the battery space also improves our competitiveness in the fuel cell space.

And speaking of fuel cell vehicles, Nikola has now started serial production of their Class 8 fuel cell electric truck, the Nikola tray. This is an important milestone for the industry since it's the first hydrogen truck to go into serial production. And it's also a big milestone for us since it marks the end of a long development process.

We signed the contract with Nikola more than 2 years ago now in April '21 and delivered the initial prototype cylinders even a few years before that. So after years of development and testing, we finally have started the delivery of serial cylinders from our site in Germany. So far, Nikola has received orders for more than 200 trucks. The first ones will be shipped to customers now in Q3. So we're excited to see this story as it develops further.

Earlier this summer, we signed a 5-year LTA worth EUR 27 million with one of the leading global energy companies to deliver hydrogen distribution modules. The interesting thing about this is that the modules will be used for delivering hydrogen to refueling stations in Europe. The European Union has recently proposed new regulatory measures under the Fit for 55 umbrella. And one of these is the alternative fuel infrastructure regulation, which sets mandatory deployment targets for electric vehicle charging stations and hydrogen refueling stations along the entire trans-European transport network.

In other words, mandating maximum distances between refueling stations across Europe, which is important to enable mass adoption. So far, most of the volume we've had in the infrastructure part of our business has been with the industrial gas companies and increasingly also with the emerging green hydrogen companies. And with limited market capacity, the market dynamics have been quite favorable in a situation where volumes are expected to grow significantly in the years ahead, but with limited capacity available in the market.

We're already at the stage where you need to be early out to secure build slots for future years. So we're quite well positioned. We're increasing our capacity also and have already built a solid pipeline of LTAs with the industrial gas companies and the green hydrogen companies to support our further growth.

But now we're starting to see even the oil and gas majors beginning to position themselves to secure build slots for the coming years to support the build-out of the European hydrogen refueling station networks. These are strong signals that bode well for the future. We're also getting good signals in the mobile refueling market. Mobile refueling will be important in the coming years, particularly in the early adoption stage before a sufficient network of permanent refueling stations have been built.

Our distribution module can be easily modified to become a mobile refueling unit by adding dispensing technology to it. We've already delivered several of these with operating pressure suitable for rail and transit. And now we have received a contract from a major European truck OEM to develop a 700-bar version, which they will use as part of their process to test and demonstrate their heavy-duty fuel cell vehicles.

So similar to the last page on distribution, this is another example of a new player positioning themselves for what is to come. It also demonstrates the beauty of our broad product portfolio. As the markets now start to move, we're well positioned in several highly relevant segments, distribution, mobile refueling and the truck technology. I want to end the highlights section with this cool-looking vehicle.

This is a Ligier hydrogen racecar with our cylinders on board, of course. It's an innovation vehicle built in cooperation between Bosch and Ligier to demonstrate the viability of hydrogen technology in a very demanding high-performance operation, 24-hour endurance racing. This car was unveiled at the 100th anniversary celebration of the famous Le Mans 24-hour race.

We obviously don't see this as a major commercial opportunity. but it's another testament to our strong technical competence. It demonstrates that our products and know-how are in demand when there are high performance requirements. A bit similar to the aerospace business, where the product needs to deliver under extreme operating environments. So not a big business, but still quite cool to be involved in.

So those were the main highlights from Q2. And with that, I will hand the word over to our CFO, Salman Alam, who will take you through the financials. Salman?

[Salman Alam, executive]

Yes. Thanks, Morten. And good morning, everyone. We will start off with the profit and loss statement. And please note that all numbers are stated in NOK.

From a revenue perspective, this was another quarter of strong growth for us. Revenue in the second quarter of 2023 ended at NOK 330 million, up 57% from NOK 210 million in the same quarter last year. The main driver of growth this quarter was our solutions for hydrogen infrastructure applications, such as hydrogen distribution. And we saw increased activity also in our transit bus and aerospace verticals as well.

For the first half of 2023, revenue ended at NOK 574 million, up 55% from NOK 369 million in the same period of last year. Looking at our operating expenses, total operating expenses ended at NOK 419 million, up NOK 322 million compared to the same quarter last year. Our cost of materials ratio was 54% in the quarter, down from 66% in the same period last year and down from 61% for the full year 2022. We are seeing that higher volume and increased scale as well as a more favorable product mix are the main drivers for the improvement in relative materials cost. However, we do expect this to fluctuate from quarter-to-quarter, but that the trend line is moving in a positive direction.

Payroll expenses were up approximately 56% year-over-year in the second quarter of 2023, reflecting the continued investments we're taking in our organizational scale up to deliver on our growth plans. Other operating expenses, which typically includes engineering and technical development and other SG&A ended at NOK 83 million in the quarter and kept stable year-over-year.

Consequently, subtracting total operating expenses from total revenue, EBITDA in the second quarter of 2023 ended at minus NOK 89 million, equal to an EBITDA margin of negative 27%. This compares to an EBITDA of minus NOK 112 million in the same quarter last year and an EBITDA margin of negative 53%. It is encouraging to see that the relative improvement in the EBITDA margin that we saw in this quarter, in line with what we communicated earlier this year.

Depreciation ended at NOK 31 million in the quarter compared to NOK 24 million in the same quarter last year. The increase is primarily driven by our larger base of property, plant and equipment, and right-of-use assets given our ongoing capacity expansion programs. EBIT for the quarter ended at minus NOK 120 million versus minus NOK 135 million in the same quarter last year.

Looking at our -- at the lines below EBIT losses from investments in associates, which reflects our minority shareholdings in Cryoshelter, Norwegian Hydrogen and the systems joint venture company in China, ended at minus NOK 2 million in the quarter versus minus NOK 1 million in the same quarter of last year.

Net financial items were minus NOK 27 million in the quarter versus positive NOK 13 million in the same quarter of last year. The weak NOK and currency movements has had an impact on financial items in the quarter. But other than that, finance income mainly stems from interest received on bank deposits and finance expenses mainly relates to noncash interest on the convertible bond that we issued in March of this year as well as interest and other debt and lease liabilities.

At the group level, we are not in a taxable position, and tax expense in the quarter was minus NOK 2.4 million versus positive NOK 0.8 million in the same quarter last year. Loss after tax ended at minus NOK 147 million versus minus NOK 124 million same quarter last year.

Moving on to our revenue split by end use application. The second quarter of 2023, as Morten already mentioned, was yet another strong quarter for our Hydrogen Infrastructure business. Sales started in infrastructure-related applications such as hydrogen distribution and stationary storage made up 55% of the revenue in the quarter. The vast majority of this revenue within the hydrogen infrastructure vertical comes from hydrogen distribution systems and hydrogen cylinders for distribution purposes. And our customers in the quarter that we had shipments to included Air Liquide, Linda and Life, so in line with the contracts we have recently announced.

In the Mobility segment, there was less activity in the heavy-duty vertical. But we do expect revenue contribution from this segment to pick up in the remainder of the year. As we early in the summer started 0 production of the hydrogen cylinder for Nikola's fuel cell electric vehicle.

There was high activity in the transit bus segment, where we continue to ship storage, hydrogen storage systems to some of our transit bus customers. In the other application segment, we continue to see robust activity in the aerospace segment, where we are working with several privately held space exploration companies, which provided a meaningful revenue contribution in the second quarter.

Industrial gas revenues, which mainly consists of stationary storage solutions for storage of air gases, so oxygen, nitrogen, et cetera, kept stable in the quarter year-over-year. Also, as Morten mentioned, we did experience some pushout of revenue from the second quarter into the second half of the year. The pushout is mainly related to timing of completion of customer deliveries. And there is no one specific reason for some of the delays that we saw in the quarter. So we believe we will be able to catch up on this in the second half of the year.

Moving on to our balance sheet. Total assets at quarter end was approximately NOK 3.8 billion. On the asset side, the main movements are seen in our property, plant and equipment, which increased by more than NOK 100 million compared to the first quarter of this year, and that's due to our ongoing capacity expansion program. We had a buildup of inventory of approximately NOK 46 million in the quarter as we are preparing for an even higher activity level in the second half of the year.

Finally, our cash position at the end of the second quarter stood at NOK 973 million. Looking at our equity and liabilities. During the quarter, we settled the deferred consideration and parts of the contingent consideration related to the acquisition we made of Wystrach back in the end of 2021. This amounted to NOK 86 million.

Consequently, this has led to a decrease in our liabilities as per end of the second quarter compared to the first quarter of this year. Our equity ratio remains solid at 62% as per the end of the second quarter. Taking a look at the main elements of our cash flow statement, which reflects the movements in the balance sheet and P&L.

Our operating cash flow in the quarter was minus NOK 172 million. Operating losses made up the bulk of this as profit before tax was minus NOK 150 million, and we had a buildup of net working capital of NOK 71 million in the quarter. We also, in the quarter, made our first prepayment to Panasonic as part of the long-term battery cell supply agreement we entered into with them earlier this year. And we do not expect any further prepayments related to the supply agreement for the remainder of the calendar year 2023.

Looking at our cash flow from investing. We invested NOK 141 million in the quarter in property, plant and equipment related to our ongoing capacity expansion programs. We are finishing up 3 facility expansions towards the end of this year, and so we continue to expect the investment activity this year to remain high. As mentioned, we also settled payments related to the Wystrach acquisition in the quarter, which amounted to NOK 86 million.

During the second quarter, we also made capital injections together with our Chinese joint venture partner, CIMC Enric, into our Chinese joint venture company. And you see the effects of that captured in the cash flow from investing in the cash flow from financing line.

Additionally, we continued making contributions towards Cryoshelter, which we currently own 40% of, for the ongoing development of cryogenic hydrogen storage. Our cash flow from financing was NOK 56 million in the quarter, and our cash balance at the end of the quarter was NOK 973 million.

And this concludes our financial review, and I'd like to hand it back to Morten to take us through the outlook.

[Morten Holum, executive]

All right. Thank you, Salman. Yes. Over the past few years, we built a solid portfolio of long-term agreements in all 3 main verticals: hydrogen distribution with industrial gas companies like Air Liquide, emerging green hydrogen players like Life, and in the battery electric mobility space, companies like Hino, hydrogen electric mobility with companies like Nikola, Toyota and Solaris.

The recent customer wins with the global oil and gas company and the North American truck OEM adds to an already solid contract portfolio. And with our relatively narrow technology core and our growing manufacturing footprint, we can easily address other applications like Maritime, for example, when they come. We have a well-balanced customer portfolio. So we're comfortable on the demand side of the equation. And then

for capacity, there's actually not much new to say about the overall expansion program. It's well underway. It's on track. We already opened 2 facilities in North America in the first half of the year. Now in Q3, we will finally open the Castle facility in Germany.

If you look closely, you will see that we've now replaced the picture from a rendering to an actual photo of the main building. So it's almost ready. And this is a state-of-the-art, highly automated cylinder manufacturing plant for Type 4 cylinders. It's going to be a very competitive operation. The construction of the next 2 facilities, the expansion of distribution module capacity in Weta and the new combined cylinder and systems facility in China is on schedule to be completed by the end of the year.

We're on track to deliver on our targets. The revenue target for '23 is now fully covered by the order book for the rest of the year on top of our year-to-date revenue. My post reached 1 quarter actually earlier than last year. And we already have NOK 0.5 billion in the order book for the next year. And as a reminder, we only count committed purchase orders when we sum up the order book. We usually have 6 to 12 months of visibility of firm orders. So we're confident that this number will grow further towards year-end.

And in fact, our order backlog number for '24 has already grown by approximately 20% since the end of the second quarter. And then when it comes to the 2025 target, we have line of sight to NOK 45 billion when summing up expected volume from contracts, LTAs and our current base of recurring customers. So we feel confident in our ability to reach it. It does look like a major leap and it's definitely not trivial.

But with the expansion program, we will have sufficient capacity available, and then several of the larger serial contracts will start ramping up in 2024 and 2025. So the outlook for 2023 is unchanged. We expect to grow revenue by at least 50% from last year, and we expect the EBITDA loss to [indiscernible] by approximately 10%. The revenue targets for 25 also remains unchanged. We target NOK 45 billion. And at that revenue level, we expect to have sufficient operating leverage to break even on EBITDA.

To sum things up, I'd like to take a step back and look at our overall development journey and the position we have today. So we laid down a solid strategy when we were spun off from Hexagon Composites back in 2020. We were clear technology leaders, but we knew that we had to be bold and forward leaning to stay ahead, securing involvement in the right development projects, securing the early volume contracts with customers, making early decision -- investment decisions to scale up manufacturing capacity, all with the key purpose of retaining our first-mover advantage and provide the best possible platform to deliver in 2025.

And we have stuck to this plan, meeting many of our commercial and strategic milestones. And we're now in the process of finalizing a major capacity expansion program. We have built a strong organization, approaching almost 600 awesome professionals. We have developed lots of technology and validated the leading position of that technology with customers. We have secured an impressive collection of long-term agreements in all of our key verticals. We're not married to a single technology, but have several legs to stand on in the overall energy transition and 0 emission space, which is a key strength because these segments do not move in sync. They move forward at different speeds, but we're able to properly respond to that.

And because we have been bold and taken decisions early, we're not trailing the markets. We are in front. All of our business is taken at positive gross margins. So the source of the operating losses that you see in our P&L, they are purely due to the investments we have taken to scale the company.

So when the serial volume now starts to kick in over the next 2 years, we will rapidly increase operating leverage and drive the earnings down to breakeven. So now we have most of the heavy lifting behind us. And we feel very well positioned for what is to come.

Our confidence that we will meet targets has never been stronger. So that concludes our presentation for today, and we will now open it up for Q&A. Mathias?

[Mathias Meidell, executive]

Thank you, Morten. Let's dive straight into it. And I guess we could continue on what you just spoke about, a question from Doug Teguset.

Congratulations with a great progress. In your long-term guiding given in 2020, 2021, you estimated breakeven in '24. Is perhaps 2025 more likely now regarding it comes to breakeven? I guess you already touched upon this.

[Salman Alam, executive]

Yes, I can comment on that, Matthias. So I think generally, we've always had the ambition of breaking even in 2025. So that was the ambition we set back in 2020, and we've stuck to that.

And we, as Morten mentioned, we believe that that's still a realistic target given the progress that we have made in recent months and years.

[Mathias Meidell, executive]

Thank you, Salman. We can continue with you as well for another question. So you're highlighting, this is from Anish. You're highlighting sales to Nikola, a company in desperate need for funding. Are you getting paid on time? And how much of your order backlog is Nikola?

[Salman Alam, executive]

Yes. So we started shipping the serial produced cylinders to Nikola just this summer. And for now, we have had no issues related to that topic with -- of payments. And the backlog, just as a reminder, our backlog, when we report our backlog, it's only firm purchase orders that we include in our order backlog. So it's not the full extent of the long-term agreements on the framework agreements.

And so the purchase order we have from Nikola today for the first phase of serial production is less than 10% of our total order backlog.

[Mathias Meidell, executive]

Thank you, Salman. And then question from for you, Morten. Do you plan -- it's from Martin Neonson. Do you plan further capacity expansion beside the ones announced? And if yes, where will you need them the most, Europe, U.S. or elsewhere?

[Morten Holum, executive]

So I think we have our sights set on the capacity expansions that we're now running. So executing those well, that's critical for our development going forward. And we need that in order to deliver on volumes in '24 and particularly have enough capacity to deliver on the 2025 target.

Obviously, with all the stuff going on in the business, we see a lot of opportunity for further growth and further expansion. But the main priority that we have now is to deliver on the plan, which means that we want to reach the NOK 45 billion in 2025 and we want to demonstrate that we can get to breakeven EBITDA in 2025. So that's the razor focus that we have.

Now given that, particularly in the United States, I would say the North American market is very vibrant. There are some, as I mentioned, a lot regulatory pressure, and at the same time, a lot of very attractive incentives to entice the industry to move in a 0 emission direction.

And with all the stuff we have now amassed in the battery electric space, I think we've already now started to look what is the next step there and what is the next opportunity to drive capacity further. And it probably will be North America as a region where we will take the next step once we have completed the expansion program that we're now running.

But it's -- we're trying to plan, trying to look ahead. So -- and of course, when we are ready to take those sort of decisions, we will, of course, inform the market.

[Mathias Meidell, executive]

Thank you, Morten. And then a second question here from Martin, maybe for you, Salman. When will we see revenue impact from your JV in China? How big will the revenues in China be? And how will the future revenues from the JV be split between the 2 companies?

[Salman Alam, executive]

Yes. So I think generally, to comment on China as a market, we still see that as a very promising market. And globally, probably one of the largest markets that we have due to the sheer population and the magnitude of China.

We are currently in the process of constructing our first facility with our JV partner in China, and that is expected to be completed towards the end of this year. Subsequently, we are not expecting any revenues until the second half of 2024 out of the Chinese joint venture. And our ownership share in the joint venture is roughly 50-50. So we own 51% of the cylinder joint venture company and 49% of the systems joint venture company. So that's how the profits are also split at the end of the day.

[Morten Holum, executive]

Yes. And just maybe as an additional comment, we don't expect revenue until the second half of the year. But that's, of course, because the first half of the year, we have to go through qualification and approvals in China.

So to get a product approved in the Chinese market, it has to be produced on the ground in China on the equipment. So that's going to take about 6 months.

[Mathias Meidell, executive]

And then an additional question from Bernard Rotter here. I think we answered the first part of it. How do you expect the Asian market in the next 2 years to develop. But the second part, maybe now relevant, which product categories will be the main drivers in China?

[Morten Holum, executive]

Okay. So in China, I think we focus mostly on -- we will focus a lot on truck and on transit. So those will be the 2 -- it's the mobility segment mainly. And I think that over the next 2 years, there's just a lot of activity in China as well.

So everybody has gotten their marching orders, and it's a very vibrant and effective market. It moves very quickly. So we're excited because we're also bringing in the long heritage of the Type 4 technology that isn't available at this point in the Chinese market. So we're also quite confident of our competitiveness and how that's going to be in that market.

[Salman Alam, executive]

And just to add to Morten's comment, the type of product is the hydrogen cylinder, which is the hydrogen system that is targeted for the Chinese market. So the battery systems and the vehicle integration is primarily in the North American market for us.

[Mathias Meidell, executive]

Yes. And then a question here from Eli Jones. Congrats on a solid set of Q2 results. You noted positive EBITDA margin in the Infrastructure segment. Is this single-digit positive or higher? And where they could get to? And what segment has the potential for the highest EBITDA margins?

[Salman Alam, executive]

Yes. So I think, Eli, just to comment on the EBITDA margins for Infrastructure. That is single-digit positive EBITDA margins, and we've had that for quite some time.

So ever since required, we stock in 2021, that's the trend we have been seeing. I think with the operating scale and as we get our new capacity expansions online and we look towards the second half of the decade, we've previously communicated an ambition to reach double-digit EBITDA margins, and we're sticking to that ambition.

But generally, we're seeing with the contracts we're signing now, also the long-term agreements that we're signing now, we're seeing them at -- we're happy and satisfied with the profitability we're seeing in those contracts and they're in line with our long-term ambitions for profitability.

[Mathias Meidell, executive]

Thanks, Salman. That was the last question. So thanks to both of you. And that also wraps up the presentation we have today. So on behalf of Hexagon Purus, I would like to thank you all for spending your time with us this morning, and we look forward to seeing you soon again. Thank you.