Co2 Capsol AS

OSE:CAPSL

Earnings Call Analysis

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q3

[Jan Kielland, executive]

Good morning, and welcome to Capsol Technologies and our quarterly results. My name is Jan Kielland, I'm the Chief Executive Officer. Today, I have with me Ingar Bergh, our Chief Financial Officer; and Philippe Stage, Chief Product Officer. Ingar and myself will cover the normal quarterly results. Philippe is here to give a very, very fascinating introduction to CapsolGT and what we can do with gas turbine and for the gas industry. So, listen to that one. Highlights. We have, as we've seen also in the previous quarter, a strong pipeline and revenue growth. We have 162% increase in revenues and a 90% increase in engineering studies. We announced also last week, 2 CapsolGo campaigns, and we see a strong demand for CapsolGo, not only in Europe, but also outside Europe. Our first license agreement was signed with Stockholm Exergi. This is a project that's on track, and we expect to find an investment decision to be taken early 2024. And also, we see a new license agreement with a large European company expected to be signed this current quarter. And we are expanding our business to U.S. and the Middle East. We have registered a U.S. entity during the quarter and currently hiring our first personnel. We have several U.S. projects ongoing, and we also see a demand for our demonstration units, the CapsolGo. For the Middle East, we also see a large incoming request, so we are exploring joint venture with a new Middle East partner. And we're now well positioned for significant value creation. We are continuing to team up with the industry leaders. One example is GE Vernova in collaboration for our CapsolGT. And we are fully funded on our current business plan. We are preparing for up listing on the Oslo mainboard first half next year. So, this is a slide I've shown several times. It's Capsol at a glance. We are a technology provider. We license out our technology, which a safe and highly cost competitive for carbon capture. From independent studies, we are 40% more efficient when it comes to energy consumption. And we capture 95% of the CO2 in the flue gas. And also now, we know this chemical process has been used in the strip for more than 70 years. We have now our own experience with the CapsolGo. These units are absolutely working fantastic. But now we have more than 7,000 hours experience running those units gives valuable input to our organization and how we can improve our technology. We target industries such as cement, we gave a presentation for that last quarter. We are super competitive in the cement industry. And biomass, well, Stockholm Exergi is a good example. And also energy from waste. We have a number of projects in our portfolio. And just interstate, that in Europe alone, it's more than 7400 waste-to-energy plants. So by itself, it's a huge market. But also on the bottom here, the gas turbines. This is something we have developed over the past 2 years. It has enormous potential. Philippe will cover that a little bit later. So, the patent at 0, represents a major carbon capture and storage opportunity. The target, I think everyone is aware of this now. But to avoid irreversible climate change, CO2 emission needs to be reduced to net 0 by 2050. The challenge is it's going to take a lot of effort. By 2050, we need to capture 8 billion tonnes of CO2 every year. And of course, this is our opportunity. We have a stellar technology that will take a good market share. The potential using our metrics for licensing out our technology, the market is EUR 60 billion from today and up to 2050. And that's only from licensing as a such and to get to the net zero. Of course, to do that, although we have a fantastic technology, we think is highly competitive when it comes to cost and other metrics, but also very important for us to team up with companies that support us on this journey. We have during the -- we have a plan to work with these big companies to get out there and market our technology globally. We see that we need these companies to help our clients to make efficient good clients with good operation and also bring down the cost. So we see some of the names on the bottom there. They are recognized names. There are global players, and we're proud to have them with us on our journey. So we have a technology that's in the same family, so to speak, as the amine-based capture technologies. These are chemical processes that are fit for capturing CO2 from large industrial plants. We're using what we call the potassium carbonate, which is really the chemical in our solvent. This is used for cost combustion. Historically, it's been used for pre-combustion in the chemical industry. But now we're converting this to be a very good technology for capturing post-combustion, means what comes out of the pipe of the plant. So we are not alone in this game, but I think we are the main company within this technology, but our design makes it very much cost-efficient than any competing technologies. And also for us, progress into the U.S. This is the largest market for carbon catcher storage. We registered a company in the U.S. during the last quarter, making a critical step towards increased presence in this large and fast-growing market. We have ongoing projects and currently hiring people to be on the ground in the U.S. as soon as we can. And we see strong demand for capital grow demonstration units. We're expecting shorter time from sales engineering to find a contract in the U.S. It's because they have a different setup, they're rewarding companies for putting CO2 in the ground. This is opposite to what we do in Europe, we penalize company for emission of CO2. So that gives another dynamics. And from what is seen in the U.S., these are companies that are able to fast-track projects. That's why it also becomes very interesting to ourselves.And as mentioned here, we are working on the license a frame agreement, and we expect this to be signed during this quarter. This is with a European utility company that has a number of plants in Europe. So, this is, of course, a high priority for us, very, very important because it shows that we can demonstrate and demonstrate that we can convert sales engineering into license agreement. But also for us, the terms are within previously indicated range of EUR 7 to EUR 12 per tonne installed capacity. So as an example, if you have a plan with capacity, 1 million tonnes of CO2 per year, you can multiply that with 7 or 12 to get what we will be rewarded for and then when we finally get paid for a license agreement. However, this pending Board approval and some final negotiations. But this is a client that we believe and have from all our meetings and everything, this will happen. But because this will provide both parties with visibility on terms, but of course, be contingent on their final investment decision for each plant. And also very important, this will allow us to staff up to have dedicated people working towards this client because we're really focusing on helping our clients to get a decision to build a plant. That's the important thing. So this is an agreement that works for both parties. And this is new. I thought I should show it to you today because it demonstrates a little bit how we experience the market. We have seen over the past month, a number of requests from this region. And what do we do? Of course, we have to take a view of how we're going to handle this because these are important clients to us. And this is a region that's moving very fast when it comes to carbon capture and storage. So, we are discussing internally how can we handle this in a very efficient way. And as a result of that and from experience, we know that we need to be present there to have the traction into this market. So we are discussing with the established player how to make a joint venture to handle this region. This company will be a local company and located in the Emirates. And this JV is expected to fully operational following necessary formal registration and final negotiation on shareholders agreement. So we're making very good progress. And this is something that's been on the agenda for some time. We have changed during the last shareholders' meeting from AS to ASI to be compliant to be able to uplist on the main board. And we also have added new competent people to the board. And that's also a requirement for being uplifted that we have 40% of each tender represented at the Board. But even more that we have super qualified people that has been building to take on the responsibility and work with our company. El Maria Hantu has a lot of experience to bring to the Board, even Delan, industrial experience from big companies. These are resources we need and going to work with going forward in the future. So by this short introduction, I'd like to give the word to Ingar that will take some of the operational stuff from the quarter.

[Ingar Bergh, executive]

Thank you, Jan. So I'm going to bring us through a short operational review. As Jan mentioned, we continue to rapidly grow our pipeline of projects and opportunities. We are showing this in a new way this quarter. We typically split it into segments where we have the first one, which is sales engineering, where we do initial engineering for clients to provide them with cost and efficiency data on how our process works with their specific projects. Then the next phase is what we call engineering. This is more mature projects where we get into more detailed engineering to bring it closer to final investment decision. Typically, these projects or these tasks last from 1 to 6 months. Here, we increased the number of projects in the engineering phase by 85% in the quarter. And then, we have our capital go demonstration units, these are really designed to accelerate projects by reducing the perceived technology risk and demonstrating our technology physically at the client site. These projects we have now represent about 1 million tons of total capacity if they are fully built in the CapsolGo demonstration campaigns we have. In addition, after the quarter, we signed 2 new campaigns with our partner, Sumitomo, which I will get back to. Then we have projects in engineering to build. This is basically where you do all the engineering being ready to make a final investment decision. We have one project, which is the Stockholm Exergi project, going to capture 800,000 tonnes per year really done with the engineering phase. We are just waiting now for them to make the final investment decision on this project. And a little contact with our sales engineering pipeline with engineering studies with engineering to build and what we have in the CapsolGo demonstration pipeline as well. We actually, this quarter, for the first time, surpassed in volume in our sales and project pipeline, the total emissions of Norway. We have 4 key segments that we're working in at the moment. I will cover our progress in 3 of them here, and I'll let Philippe later address the gas turbine segment. Cement, the biggest emitter in the world, arguably the most important industry for carbon capture. Here, we've seen over the last 6 months going from almost nothing to about 10 million tons of potential annual volume to be captured in our portfolio. And this has gone rapidly, and we see that the industry has gotten their eyes open for our technology now. This quarter, we added a total of 3 projects to the engineering segment of our pipeline. Two projects in Southern Europe where we are leading the engineering efforts and one project in the United States where a third-party EPC is doing the engineering with input from us. Waste energy, waste incineration to create energy and value, it's one of our key segments, and it's a fast and early mover in carbon capture. We see we already have a lot of projects here in our engineering pipeline and we see a lot more coming in as the industry, again, wakes up to how good a solution we have for this type of emitters. In the quarter, we added one more project in the engineering phase of the pipeline in Central Europe, representing about 150,000 tonnes of annual emissions if it's fully built to be captured. Then of course, we have captured from biomass power plants, also a very important industry because this actually recoups CO2 from the atmosphere by having net 0 emissions to start with, which is going to be more and more important as the world fails to accelerate carbon reductions as needed. Then we need to start out to think about how do we actually take them back from that mishap. We have, of course, here our Stockholm Exergi project as the main project, but also see a lot of projects coming in, including where we do CapsolGo demonstration campaigns. This is a very promising segment for us. Talking a little bit about Stockholm Exergi. This is the project, the biggest project on the plan in Scandinavia. It's where we have signed our first license agreement and the project was awarded EUR 180 million from the European Union to build and execute. The FEED studies have been done by Petrofac, one of our partners. The engineering contract to actually build the project is now being awarded to Saipem and we expect final investment decision early next year. And this is when we start to get paid on our licensing model, which is we had the majority of our revenue is going to come from. Also, actually, last week, so after the quarter, we signed an agreement through scale carbon capture plants in a standardized fashion based on our process technology. The agreement we signed with Sumitomo last week, was for 2 CapsolGo demonstration campaigns to be delivered at potential clients of these large-scale plants. This marks, we believe an important milestone in the cooperation with Sumitomo showing that the cooperation is going in the right direction and that Sumitomo is willing to invest hard capital to get there. The point of these campaigns is one, to make sure that Sumitomo has an insight and depth in our technology to do a very good job in designing full-scale plants, but to also opportunity to engage with potential end clients for these plants and start the process towards final investment decision and delivery. To service this agreement, we are actually building a new CapsolGo demonstration unit and potentially a new liquefaction unit. And showing our capital discipline, we have managed to fully finance these units so they don't impact our cash position by a combination of loans from DNB and prepayments from the clients.Just to provide you a little bit overview of our CapsolGo demonstration program now, how many units do we have, et cetera. We have now 2 CapsolGo demonstration units operating for different industrial clients in Germany. We have one CapsolGo liquefaction unit, which is taking the CO2 converting it into liquid, so it can be utilized or stored to show the proof of the concept of the full value chain. One of these now on site with one of the clients in Germany. We have our third unit, which we have ordered, which will go to Sumitomo's and clients next year, and we are likely to order a second liquefaction unit almost to always do -- to also service the clients for Sumitomo. So in total, we have signed and are executing 4 CapsolGo demonstration campaigns. In addition, they're coming in 2 new ones from Sumitomo, so a total of 6 campaigns. So the point of the CapsolGo demonstration units is really to help end clients accelerate their final investment decision by reducing the perceived technology risk from the technology choice. But it's also a very strong marketing tool for us as a company, but also for the end client when they are marketing to their stakeholders as well as being an excellent R&D tool, a mobile R&D lab, we, of course, develop the specific projects, but we build a large database of operational data, which we can use to further optimize our technology and, of course, help accelerate and sell projects for other clients as well. And we see high demand for these services. It's a precursor for the interest in our technology for large-scale plants. With the third unit coming in from Sumitomo, we will have the capacity to add about 15,000 hours of operation of data each year. And finally, these are actually quite profitable units. There is a willingness to pay for these types of demonstration campaigns. And although it's not where we are going to make the biggest value creation for our shareholders. It's helpful in keeping us self-financed until we get to the big licensing revenues. That was the operational review. Now I'm going to provide you with a brief financial review. In the quarter, we increased our revenue by 160%, up to NOK 13.6 million. We had a focus on making our delivery of engineering services more efficient. We see a lot more business coming our way. We need to streamline the way we deliver the services to get to final investment decision and to get to the licensing revenue. We are doing this in 2 ways: optimizing and digitizing the actual engineering efforts, but also, of course, adding new resources in a careful and planned manner. By the end of the quarter, we had a pretax profit of negative NOK 8.4 million, compared to negative NOK 15.2 million the last quarter. So a good improvement. We also improved our earnings, basically driven by that top line growth. We had one CapsolGo demonstration unit operating through the quarter and the second one coming online by the end of the quarter as well as the new liquefaction unit starting to generate revenue. We also see that we get more and more paid engineering services, helping us covering our cost for staff and other things. So we see it's going in the right direction, and we do expect to break even on our licensing business in 2024. Capital discipline is, of course, very important for us. We saw the net cash flow from operating activities in the quarter being negative NOK 3.7 million, an improvement from negative NOK 11.5 million in the last quarter. And we spent a total of NOK 10 million in cash during the quarter, of which about NOK 4 million was investments in our new liquefaction unit. How does it look going forward? We are fully funded to deliver on our current business plan. We have a dynamic ramp-up and a flexible cost base. We ended the quarter with NOK 23 million in cash, we see over the next 12 months, this is contracted revenue. So revenue that we have actually signed for. It's not a budget and committed spend. So we have a total contracted revenue for the next 12 months of about NOK 100 million. And we see that we'd spend a new debt and service of this. We and investments, we will have a cash buffer of about NOK 25 million over the next 12 months. We expect to bottom out on cash of between NOK 10 million and NOK 12 million by the end of this quarter. But it's important again that this is not a budget. There is, for instance, a lot of CapsolGo capacity within these 12 months, which is not signed up, which we do expect to sign up, of course, and also engineering revenue and hopefully, licensing revenue as well. That was it for me. Now I'm going to give the floor to Philippe Stage to talk about a very exciting development in our CapsolGT solution.

[Philippe Stage, executive]

So let's take a deep dive into CapsolGT, our solution for gas turbines. And we have to start with the challenge. The challenge of the thousands of gas turbine operators in the world that are currently looking to decarbonizing their business. And even though carbon capture is a technically viable solution, it often fails on the economical setup of these projects. To showcase this to you, we brought an example here on the right side. If you compare cement plant and the gas turbine plant, that both want to capture 600,000 tons of CO2. In case of the cement plant, you have to process 2.1 million tons of flue gas each year. In case of a gas turbine plant, you have to process 11.3 million tons of lugs each year. This is 5x more than 5x more than from a cement plant. So that, of course, translates into the plot space, into the CapEx, but it's also more efforts into higher OpEx numbers. To tackle this challenge, we introduced CapsolGT, which is our solution specifically for open-cycle gas turbines. The open cycle gas turbine is providing very hot flue gas in the range of 500 to 650 degrees Celsius that is normally released directly to the atmosphere. And what we do is we take that hot flue gas from the open cycle turbine and utilize it to not only capture the CO2 from the flue stream but also to provide additional electricity from that heat. In that way, we are able to capture 95% of the flue gas, but also to generate additional electricity. Let's have a look on the 2 largest gas turbine segments in the world. On the one hand, there are simple cycle, also called open cycle gas turbines, typically smaller turbines in the range of 100 to 120 megawatts. The net plant efficiency is typically in the range of 35% to 40%. These are used in oil and gas aspects, for example, driving compressor stations on natural gas pipelines. They're also used in industrial contacts or even for power production and Pico Power production. Here, CapsolGT is a very applicable solution because the only thing it means on site is the hot flue gas and then progresses into electricity and a CO2 stream.And there's also the combined cycle gas turbines, typically larger in the range of 150 to 450 megawatts. And here, you have higher efficiency numbers because the waste heat of the gas turbine is then utilized to drive the steam cycle. And typically, that steam is forwarded to a steam turbine that provides additional electricity. Here, it's a standard case to have a baseload electricity production plant. Even here, CapsolGT could become an alternative and greenfield project development where several CapsolGT plants are operating in parallel and providing an alternative to a combined cycle with carbon capture. And we have a very attractive value proposition with this product. It utilizes our proven capture solution similar to Capsol EoP. And there's no need for the external steam generation. So these plants that today in the open cycle gas turbine segment, not generating steam on site. They don't have to do that in the future. We will do it with our CapsolGT plant. And in that way, we are also increasing the efficiency of the plant because we provide additional electricity. We have a superior environmental profile and also we designed the unit to be modular and scalable. And to set another focus on this slide to the project economics have we look to the bottom left of this page. We are able in the feasibility level studies to reach numbers of less than $70 per tonne of CO2 captured transported and stored. And this is less than the $85 tax credit clients will receive with the 45Q scheme in the U.S. So carbon capture with CapsolGT could even become an additional source of revenue. And to explain you this cost advantage, you see a comparison between traditional post-combustion absorption processes and CapsolGT. The first, in case of the traditional post-combustion absorption processes, main part of the cost is the CapEx cost, and it consists of the capture section itself, but it also consists of the steam boiler and the steam generating facility that is required to drive this capture process. And not all of the team is utilized, so even potentially a steam turbine needs to be introduced, and that adds to the CapEx. Some of this steam that goes to the steam turbine will provide some electricity that goes positive into the business case. But then in addition, we also have relatively high OpEx costs due to a proprietary solvent and a rather complex operation. In case of CapsolGT, we have the first major advantage on the CapEx side because we may have similar CapEx cost to the capital section of alternative technologies. However, in our case, we avoid this investment into a steam cycle and a steam turbine. We also provide typically more electricity than a steam turbine on the other technology would do. So even there, we have an advantage on the electricity revenue generation. And if it comes to the OpEx with our non proprietary rather cost-efficient solvent, we add also to a better business case and we see there is a significant cost advantage. And what we have done is, currently, we have conducted on a feasibility level, several views into U.S.-based projects. We can see that, especially with the existing CO2 pipeline network in the U.S. where transport and storage costs are potentially cheaper than in Europe, we see a significant cost advantage that could lead the whole value chain from capture transport and storage to below $85 per ton and make it another source of revenue for clients. And to give you also an insight to which type of clients we talk to today, you see 4 of these very attractive segments. On the one hand, we talk to greenfield project developers that look into providing low-carbon electricity to the grid. Also, we talk to clients that want to decarbonize the oil and gas industry, for example, compressor pipeline or compressors in pipeline applications where gas turbines provide the force to these compressors. And also even a peak load power plant could be upgraded to baseload operation, changing the whole business case and making carbon capture a new source of revenue. And of course, we also have a joint approach with the turbine vendors because especially integrating into a plant that is having certain service agreements and certain guarantees, it is important to have the buy-in from these manufacturers. And to give you an example, in the last quarter, we have signed a collaboration agreement with GE Vernova to apply our CapsolGT solution on their aero-derivative gas turbines. And we are especially excited about working with Aman and his team on providing another option to their client base if it comes to decarbonizing the gas turbine fleet. We also have signed a first project-specific 3-party collaboration agreement with MLCP for gas-to-wire projects. And for us, it's really important to have a goal of actually building these plants and getting these plants in operation. So we have a timeline where we aim to have a first CapsolGT plant in operation in 2026. We're currently deducting feasibility-level engineering work, including additional design that is right in front of us. We target to have this first-of-a-kind plant operating with a 50 megawatt turbine or larger. So it would capture roughly 250,000 tons of CO2 per year. And we're targeting the Middle East and the United States. So that said, I'd like to hand over back to Jan, who is giving you some closing remarks.

[Jan Kielland, executive]

Thank you, Philippe. So some concluding remarks and before we take the Q&A session. So for 2030, this is our long-term goals. We want to make sure that we can make our tele technology available for point resources for all emitters. We're targeting to become top 3 in our priority segments, which is today's cement. We see we have an extremely attractive offering to the cement industry. Biomass, Stockholm Exergi is the example, waste energy, as you saw in the slide from Ingar, we have a number of projects already. And you also see in the presentation from Philippe, this is, in fact, an enormous market. We hope that we can build the first of a kind within a couple of years. With all of this, it's a global market. It's enormous market. We have the ambition to capture 5% to 10% of that market. But for doing so, we need to have the best people. We need to have the best partners. And of course, we are targeting license agreements, licensing revenues in the range of EUR 7 to EUR 12 per tonne. We still believe into the gas business, the room for a higher margin, but we will see. And of course, doing all of this, we can hope for a pretax profit of 40% to 60%. And we have one of the position ourselves in all the big markets. We are already well positioned in Europe. We are making good traction in North America and the Middle East. But we also see now more and more incoming requests from the Far East and even for South America. So this is very, very fascinating over forward. And all of this should be in our goals for 2030. So what does it take to build a global tech leader? In 2023, we have seen accelerated demand for our services, and we see good traction in the market. When we entered the year, we had hoped to do several engineering studies. We're ending up doing 15 or more. This has been a fantastic growth and beyond our expectation and engineering studies that's really paving the way for having a license agreement. We see this CapsolGo campaign has been very successful this year, and we see the demand for more of this next year. We entered into collaboration with some of the global players. Siemens Energy and GE Vernova, very, very impressive companies. And we have developed this CapsolGT that Philippe just explained with a huge potential. And we are established in Germany, U.K., in the U.S., preparing for the Middle East and other emerging markets. And as I said, we expect to sign the next license agreement within this quarter. This will be a frame agreement with a big client. So 2024, we have to convert leads and studies into a licensing agreement because, well, we get paid for doing studies, but licensing agreement that will really be the activity that will add profit to the bottom line. So we have to mature and expand our pipeline. We have to get more contracts for the CapsolGo. We are confident that will happen because we have a number of companies requesting these units. We will break even next year. And for us, this is something we stated 2 years ago when we got listed, we hope that we will go breakeven income versus revenue and cost in 2024. We are on track. We see from Ingar's slide that the contracted revenue by only including the contracted revenue, we are at breakeven next year, but we expect more to come, of course. And we will commercialize the gas turbine, CapsolGT to position this in the market together with Siemens Energy and GE Vernova. And we will strengthen in these markets. As I said, we are evaluating. We are exploring how to do this in the Middle East. We believe a joint venture will take place. We will be present in the U.S. with people on the ground, and we will very carefully consider how to handle the Far East market. So all in all, we have had a very good quarter behind us. And as a team, we are super optimistic way going forward. And we think we are in the right spot at the right time. We are in a booming industry and we have to take this advantage. So thank you, and we are happy to take any questions.

[Operator]

I will hand the first one to Philip because this is regarding CapsolGo. So what is the status on the capital growth projects that has been completed?

[Philippe Stage, executive]

I think, first of all, it's good to share the positive client feedback that we received from these type of projects. We have seen that they help the client to get a deeper understanding into the performance of the HPC solvent on their flue gas. And it's especially also exciting for them to see. You can capture 90% and 95% of carbon dioxide with HPC. So what we believe is that these projects will help to mature the project on the client side and bring it to the next stage.

[Operator]

There's a question here regarding patents. How do you view your current patents on your capture solutions asked another way, how do you view the risks of competitors using similar capture technology?

[Philippe Stage, executive]

We have a very active patenting and innovation program, where we have a number of tools to protect our IP. We don't see any real threats today in our space. There's always in such an industry, such an exciting industry that we are in. There's always a risk that there are either new technologies or similar technologies coming in to try and take market share from us. patents will only get you so far. What we are doing is building the know-how and the execution experience and the client relationships to really make it a lot more expensive to try and go around us than to work with us.

[Operator]

Perfect. I think this one will also be for you, Ingar. How does the new units you have ordered to service the Sumitomo agreement impact your cash position?

[Ingar Bergh, executive]

I think we are still a little bit proud of that we have managed to structure these contracts such that together with bank financing and prepayment from the clients, it does not actually impact our cash position in a negative way over the construction and start-up of the project. In the long term, of course, it's positive for the cash position. This is a good investment.

[Operator]

I can go to Jan. Casters say, a huge demand for CCS. So how will you build the organization to cover the global demand?

[Jan Kielland, executive]

It's not going to be an engineering company. We are teaming up with global capable engineering companies. Although we have to do sales engineering and some of the feasibility studies, we will expand our organization, but only as far as we have to. And as we've said previously, we have become much more efficient during this year to handle 15 rather than 5 paid studies. We will, in addition, make sure that we have supporting companies where we outsource part of the engineering work, but we will also have to add a limited project managers to our team, but not a huge one, but also, we think we've seen the effect of having people on the ground in Germany. Tremendous results when it comes to number of projects from that having a Berlin office. We will also have an office in the U.S. and Middle East and hopefully in the Far East. So in Oslo, we will be a limited number of people, but I think we will see more people, satellite people, around the world, managing client relation. We need to stay close to our clients.

[Operator]

There is a question here regarding cement as well. You talked, you had a deep dive now with GT, last time you talked about cement and attraction. Can you say a few words about what is the reason behind the traction in cement now?

[Jan Kielland, executive]

We believe there's 2 things. One is that the cement industry in itself is really starting to see that they need to move to reach their targets. We saw in October, the start of the implementation of the border adjustment tax in the European Union, which means that cement companies within the EU previously not having to pay a lot of money for the carbon emission because the logic was, if they did, they will just move outside of the EU and produce cement there. Now the EU is implementing a border tax on commodities like cement, so a cement producer in Turkey needs to pay equivalent to the EU carbon tax if they import cement into Europe. At the same time, the free allowances for cement industry in Europe is being phased out. So the carbon emissions from cement is going to be a big cost for the cement industry. and it's going to be cheaper, certainly with our technology to do carbon capture instead. So it's a competitive thing for them. They need to do it to survive. Secondly, we are upcoming. We're underdog in this market, but we see more and more traction. We see more and more recognition. We are starting to become a global name. And that means we are also on the radar screen when they start to make technology selection. So it's one the industry is in a hurry, two, the industry has really opened their eyes that our technology is especially suited to capture carbon from cement.

[Operator]

Thank you so much. That was all the questions. So thank you to all of you of you.