Cambi ASA

OSE:CAMBI

Earnings Call Analysis

Earnings Call Transcript 2024-Q2

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for Cambi's presentation of our second quarter results. I'm Dragos Talvescu, Director of Corporate Relations. And over the next 30 minutes or so, you will hear from our CEO, Eirik Fadnes, and CFO, Mats Tristan Tjemsland, as they discuss our quarterly business achievement and financial performance. We will address any questions after the presentation. So please direct your inquiries to Investor Relations at [e-mail].

Please note that this presentation may include forward-looking statements, which involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual outcomes to differ significantly from those presented today.

Now without further ado, I'm pleased to introduce Cambi's CEO, Eirik Fadnes.

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. We're happy to present a solid second quarter performance you today. First, revenue growth was 29% to an all-time high quarterly revenue. The achievement is a result of very strong execution, where we consistently meet milestones adapted to client schedules and of a high activity level in the Solutions segment, which I'll come back to.

Second, EBITDA is up from last year, and I'm very pleased to see that we maintain a healthy profit level while absorbing important long-term investments in solutions, sales and marketing and R&D. Third, and despite a slow quarter on the order intake side, the order backlog remains high at almost NOK 1.5 billion. Our balance sheet remains solid, and our cash flow from operations remains sound, which Mats Tristan will provide more details on later.

At the end of this quarter, we reached a rolling 12-month revenue milestone of more than NOK 1 billion for the group. The Solutions segment is an important strategic priority for Cambi and has been so for years. And the revenue journey in the Solutions segment is remarkable, reaching almost NOK 300 million in the last 12 months and more than doubled since 2018.

As you can see from Mats Tristan's later presentation, the revenue in Solutions is quite stable, and our target is to ensure a sound foundation of recurring revenue. We see good growth potential in solutions, both from a growing installed base and from expanding our services offerings.

So I want to spend a few minutes on this development. We've grown the organization in terms of the number of employees and our delivery capabilities. With that, we are also experiencing an increasing synergy between the three main areas of services, O&M Support, Upgrades and our remote monitoring system, PLUS.

I'm happy to witness how our broad scope of services helps us build strong relationships with our customers. For example, the trust we've built through O&M support makes the customer more receptive to our other offerings and to what various upgrades and PLUS solutions could contribute with to their operations.

The higher revenue level is also a result of increasing site activities, a growing installed base of operating plants, a larger scope and a higher market share. We see an increasing preference among our customers to leave more in the hands of technology experts like Cambi and rather focus on daily standard operating tasks with their internal resources.

This makes sense when you consider that we have experience from many operating plants and can leverage that knowledge to the benefit of utilities that have few or even only one plant. Upgrades are tailored to suit each plant's specific needs and drivers, keeping the plant updated to the latest standards and extending their service life.

We've noticed that more customers choose to collaborate with us from the very beginning of their upgrade journey. As I mentioned earlier, this comes from the strong relationships we've built from supporting in other areas. By doing this, we find the best solutions based on their needs.

In the second quarter alone, we worked on two significant projects where we partnered with the customer from the outset. We're also in the final stages of preparing for a third project. These collaborations are driven by several factors, including the need for increased capacity, changing regulations, and many plants nearing the end of their design life.

It's particularly encouraging that we now see customers approaching us for advice on how to extend the service life of their plants. This initial consultation often leads to them choosing Cambi for their upgrade itself.

Now let's move on to the other part of solutions, the Recycling business. Recycling and the market for peat-free soil continues to evolve with a growing environmental awareness influencing customer choices.

A notable development in the recent proposal by the Green Party, MDG, which highlights the increasing political focus on reducing the environmental impact of peat-based soil products. This is positive for Grønn Vekst, reinforcing our strategic direction towards offering sustainable peat-free solutions.

We are well positioned to meet the rising demand in a market that's moving in our direction. To prepare for that and meet the current demand, our production team has done an outstanding job this quarter, with an output from the soil packaging line growing from the previous quarter. The increase in bulk soil sales has also been impressive, with volumes significantly higher than the same period last year.

A highlight of this quarter was involvement in the Ullevål Stadium project, where we delivered 5,000 tonnes of high-quality soil. This project underscores our capability to support large-scale, high-profile initiatives, and we're proud to contribute to the sporting success of our national teams. Should Norway make it to the women's European Championship next year after playoffs in the new field, Grønn Vekst can take pride in having played a small part literally from the ground up.

In the quarter, Grønn Vekst was awarded a contract to manage the garden waste for the municipality of Bærum. Over the next 3 years, with the possibility of extending to a fourth, we will oversee the grinding, transportation and composting of all garden waste collected at public recycling stations across the city.

Now let's move over to the Technology segment. Last quarter, we showed a typical development in project execution, following an S-curve where most of the progress is made during the manufacturing stage. Here is an overview of the 16 ongoing construction projects in the Technology segment. These projects make up the vast majority of the reported backlog this quarter.

As you can see, our ongoing projects are for customers from all around the world. We have 3 major projects, 7 large projects and 6 medium projects ongoing. And at the end of the quarter, several of our large and major projects have reached the manufacturing stage. The project in Lviv remains on hold.

I'd like to mention that this overview is a simplification as there's often a gradual transition between the phases. Since this mapping is a static snapshot of our projects under active execution at the end of June, let me now walk you through the development of the second quarter.

We continue our good track record in project execution. We deliver on client schedules and from April to June, we passed important execution and payment milestones. I'm happy to announce that our THP system at the Piscataway Wastewater Resource Recovery Facility in Maryland, the U.S.A., started operating on sludge at the end of June. This makes the plant the first in the world to start using our thermal hydrolysis system with standby vessels, which allows greater flexibility during maintenance. This system can also operate during annual shutdowns.

We're also proud of how we contribute to sustainable biosolids management for this plant. So it's worth repeating. Our THP has turned the site into a solid treatment center that saves the customer $3.4 million in annual operating costs and reduces its yearly greenhouse gas emissions by 13%. We also made steady THP commissioning progress in the second quarter in Copenhagen. For other sites in Antwerp, Sofia, Raleigh and Safi, we're lined up for commissioning at the end of June, pending client site readiness.

These projects are particularly important as they will soon be handed over to our Solutions segment for ongoing aftermarket services. This marks a critical phase in our long-term customer engagement strategy and the successful handover will also set the stage for further service-related revenue.

Moving on, there were good progress in installing two other THP systems. In South Africa, the two THP systems delivered to Sasol in Secunda to process industrial sludge at their large coal to gas facility were erected during the spring. We're thrilled to see our systems getting ready to process industrial feedstock for the first time in sub-Saharan Africa. Just north of Oslo, we have installed a third THP system in Norway's metropolitan capital area.

And on this slide, you can see the impressive lifting of one of the THP steel tanks through the rooftop of a new building that will house the system for several decades of operations. Three projects completed engineering during the second quarter, Tuas in Singapore, Morris Forman in Louisville and the one in San Francisco. All projects at the engineering stage progress according to plan.

A particular case is an engineering study of adopting THP in Dunkirk, France. A potential client commission this study before deciding to purchase a THP. So Cambi has no construction contract for this project, although we're optimistic that this will eventually be the outcome. And this is not a unique process.

For example, the Sasol project in South Africa also underwent a paid engineering study phase before signing a construction contract and two ongoing projects in Norway for FREVAR in Fredrikstad and Veas in Asker were awarded through best value procurement processes, which entails a paid collaboration phase during which project details are firmed before the construction contract is awarded.

So zooming out, I would like to spend a few minutes talking about market trends in our core industry, the wastewater treatment sector. The graph on this slide depicts the expected growth in capital expenditures for wastewater and sludge treatment globally. In 2024, water utility companies are expected to make capital investments of more than $180 billion.

As you can see on this graph, the forecasted growth until 2029 is about 30% or a CAGR of 4.5% from 2023. In the coming 5 years, I believe Cambi will become even more strongly positioned in this growing market, supported by macroeconomic trends such as population growth, urbanization and economic growth.

While most wastewater utility spending goes to the sewage network and the waterlines within the wastewater treatment plants, sludge management is expected to take an increasing share of the CapEx budgets. And this you'll see on the next slide.

As living standards improve on and regulations mandate better wastewater treatment, sludge volumes will increase. The world already produces vast volumes of wastewater solids, an estimated 75 million to 100 million tonnes in 2022 measured as dry solids.

Cambi's current installed capacity can currently treat 3 million tonnes of dry solids, so about 3% to 4% of the global total. The WaterData service from Media Analytics, the company behind Global Water Intelligence estimates global sewage sludge production will increase to about 125 million tonnes of dry solids in 2030. Industrial sludge production will further add to this figure.

To meet this growth, water utility companies will have to step up investments in the solids and sludge lines. Annual capital expenditures for sludge management are estimated to surpass $13 billion in 2024. WaterData figures also estimate annual CapEx growth of more than 50% between 2023 and 2029. This equates to a CAGR of 7.4% for the period, considerably higher than the growth rate for CapEx with the broader wastewater treatment sector.

Before passing the floor to Mats Tristan to walk you through the financial results in detail, I would like to illustrate how some water utility companies anticipate these trends and plan to reduce their environmental impact and reach net zero carbon emissions. Many leading water utility companies already use Cambi's thermal hydrolysis, several others are in our THP sales pipeline.

I selected one example from four continents to illustrate that the trend is global and spans beyond Cambi's core markets. Starting in South America, in Chile, Aguas Andinas is leading the way for utilities in middle- and low-income countries to set net zero targets.

This listed company has an ambitious plan to transform its site in Santiago de Chile into zero waste, zero carbon and energy self-sufficient facilities. Aguas Andinas adopted THP from Cambi in 2012 at the Mapocho wastewater treatment plant. And in Solutions, we're supporting the plant with maintenance requirements and upgrades.

Beijing Drainage Group or BDG, was China's first water utility company to set a net zero emissions target for 2050. Their Gaoantun sludge treatment center is progressing towards achieving complete electricity self-sufficiency and carbon neutrality next year while using diversified renewable energy sources.

All five of Beijing's solid treatment centers have large-scale THP systems from Cambi, accounting for almost 20% of our global installed capacity. As such, BDG is indeed one of Cambi's leading customers.

In Western Australia, Water Corporation has set a net zero target for 2035 and aimed to return all its biosolids to land. Adopting thermal hydrolysis at its largest facility, Woodman Point near Perth, will allow Water Corp. to treat the solids from several sites in one location keeping costs affordable without compromising on treatment standards or biosolids quality and safety.

Finally, coming back closer to home, Scottish Water has adopted a carbon net zero target for 2040. Scottish Water has two sites using thermal hydrolysis from Cambi in Aberdeen and Edinburgh. At Nigg in Aberdeen, the THP has been in operation since 2001, and we completed an upgrade of the facility a couple of years back.

As more and more cities and water utility companies commit to reducing their emissions, Cambi is ready to engage and discuss how our reliable technology can help along the way while reducing long-term costs and boosting local circular economies.

And with this, it's time to look closer at our second quarter financial results. So I'll leave the floor to Mats Tristan.

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

Thank you, Eirik, and good morning, everyone. So I will now take you through the financials for second quarter. So let's have a look at some financial highlights first. We are very pleased to report a solid revenue and EBITDA performance in the quarter. And as Eirik mentioned, on a rolling 12-month basis, revenues surpassed the NOK 1 billion mark for the very first time, marking a special milestone for the company.

The cash flow generation from operational activities was good, coming in at NOK 91 million in the quarter. We distributed shareholder dividends of NOK 160 million in May, equivalent to NOK 1 per share. And we reiterate our ambition to pay out dividends of 60% to 80% of net profits for the financial year of 2024.

And our financial position remains robust, and we report a solid balance sheet with no long-term debt at the end of the quarter. And going into Q3, we had an order backlog of NOK 1.5 billion, which provides good visibility of the activity level for the coming quarters.

So let's take a look at some key financials on a consolidated level. We report revenue of NOK 306 million and an EBITDA of NOK 82 million in the second quarter, both being the highest on record for a single quarter. Revenues were up from NOK 238 million in the same quarter last year and up from the previous quarter. And the main driver for this is the development of the good progress made on many of the ongoing construction projects, as Eirik touched upon.

Gross margins remained stable at 53%, in line with the previous quarters, and slightly downwards versus the same quarter last year. EBITDA was up versus last year and significantly up from the previous quarter. And the increase is mainly a result of higher contribution from ongoing construction projects.

The OpEx level is in line with the previous quarter, but up from the same quarter last year. Most of the revenue is in foreign currencies, and Cambi continues to benefit from a weak Norwegian kroner. In Q2, the average FX rates for U.S. dollars and euros were in line with the same quarter last year and the NOK was slightly weaker towards the pound this quarter compared to the same quarter last year.

So let's take a closer look at the performance of our business segments. The Technology segment is mainly related to sales, R&D, manufacturing and delivery of THP systems. The segment makes out around 2/3 of the total revenue for this quarter. And revenues were reported at NOK 211 million in the second quarter, which is higher than the previous quarter and the same quarter last year.

As mentioned, many of the ongoing construction projects have made good progress in the second quarter and the key takeaway here is that Cambi continues to deliver on all client commitments. At the end of the quarter, there were 16 ongoing construction projects in various stages of execution, up from 11 in the second quarter last year.

Gross margin was 58%, in line with the previous quarter and the same quarter last year. The project mix and especially the share of projects where Cambi has an extended scope, typically EPC projects, will influence the gross margin.

EBITDA came in at NOK 59 million, almost double the level in the second quarter last year and the previous quarter. The main driver is increased contribution from the ongoing construction projects. The OpEx is slightly up, mainly because of higher payroll costs. And overall, we are satisfied with the performance of the Technology segment, which enables continued investments into sales, marketing and R&D.

Let's now look at the financials for the Solutions segment, which covers our offering to existing customers and recycling company, Grønn Vekst.

In Q2, we report revenues of NOK 95 million, up from NOK 81 million in the same quarter last year and significantly up from the previous quarter. The revenue reported this quarter is the highest on record for the segment. And the uplift is mainly from increased activity in the Recycling subsegment versus last year. Bulk soil and retail soil sales normally increased during the warmer months in the year, and bulk sales are up and retail sales, mainly peat-free soil, is growing as expected after the packing facility opened halfway through 2023.

Gross margins were in line with the previous quarter, but down from the same quarter last year due to the subsegment mix, meaning that the Recycling subsegment, which has a lower gross margin accounted for a larger share of the Solutions segment this quarter. There were two ongoing upgrade construction projects at the end of Q2, down from three in the same quarter last year.

So let's have a look at the long-term development. Key financials on a rolling last 12-month basis show that revenue surpassed the NOK 1 billion mark, as I mentioned. And it's important to have a perspective longer than each quarter for Cambi, and the LTM development helps to smooth out quarterly seasonality and fluctuations.

The LTM EBITDA in Q2 is at the level of the full year EBITDA for 2023. And this development demonstrates our scalable business model. Let's also take a quick look at the LTM development for our segments.

We can see that the Technology segment is unlocking profitability when the activity level is high due to operational leverage. And as Eirik mentioned, the Solutions segment is an important strategic priority for Cambi, and we can see that the LTM revenue was just shy of NOK 300 million in Q2, the highest level on record. Since 2018, the segment has doubled in size.

Let's move over to the order intake for the quarter. There were no construction contract awards announced during Q2, but Cambi received several variation orders for ongoing construction projects. A small contract was announced in April to Grønn Vekst for handling of all garden waste in Bærum municipality.

In addition, several smaller upgrade projects were awarded in the Solutions segment, however, with the size below the threshold of contract award announcements, which is set at NOK 15 million. The reported order intake also takes into consideration changes in the value of the order backlog impacted from changes in the FX rate at the end of the quarter. In Q2, this impact is negative NOK 19 million from a slightly stronger NOK mainly impacting the Technology segment.

Let's take a closer look at the order backlog. The order backlog was NOK 1.5 billion by the end of the quarter, up from NOK 1 billion at the end of the second quarter last year and down from NOK 1.7 billion in the first quarter. The backlog decrease from the previous quarter is mainly driven by progress on construction, which enabling -- which is enabling revenue recognition, combined with little order intake during the quarter.

And as I mentioned, the backlog end of Q2 also includes FX impact versus the previous quarter. The backlog is most related to construction projects within the Technology segment, but also includes some services projects and the biosolids and garden waste handling contracts for Grønn Vekst.

At the end of the quarter, there were in total 18 ongoing construction projects with 16 in the Technology segment and 2 in the Solutions segment. This solid order backlog provides good visibility for future activity levels, which brings us over to the backlog distribution.

So let's have a look at the breakdown of the order backlog. The distribution by execution year is illustrated on the left-hand side and the backlog breakdown is based on the most recent client project schedules. And we expect to convert around 25% of the current backlog of NOK 1.5 billion into revenues for the second half of this year. And in 2025, we expect to convert approximately half of the current backlog into revenue equivalent to almost NOK 750 million. The remaining 25% of the current backlog is expected to be converted into revenue in 2026 and beyond.

And on the right-hand side, we have provided the breakdown of the order backlog by currency. The backlog at the end of the second quarter was more or less evenly split between NOK, U.S. dollars and euros.

The amount of NOK in the backlog is historically high. And going forward, we expect FX to have a larger share of the backlog as the majority of Cambi's clients are international. So the reported backlog exposes Cambi to currency exchange rate fluctuations, which could be a risk to future financial performance.

Let's take a look at the income statement. I have already mentioned some of the key elements, but I'd like to highlight a few developments. Operating expenses were reported at NOK 81 million, which is up from NOK 69 million in the same quarter last year and slightly up versus the previous quarter. The main driver for the increase is higher payroll expenses.

And the payroll expenses increased from the same quarter last year, primarily because Cambi is growing as an organization and the head count at the end of the second quarter is 18% higher than in the second quarter last year. In addition, as of 2024, we report payroll costs, including bonus accruals on a quarterly basis, which was not the case for Q2 last year, as Cambi reported the entire annual cost for bonuses of 2023 in Q4.

Depreciation and amortization were in line with the previous quarters and mainly consists of the IP from an acquired technology portfolio in 2022. The portfolio is amortized over a total period of 3 years, meaning that it will be fully amortized during Q2 next year. This will reduce the current quarterly depreciation and amortization costs with NOK 4 million.

The reported net financial items are NOK 2 million in the second quarter, and this is mainly from realized interest income from the sale of financial assets, which I will comment on later.

Tax as of Q2 2024 and going forward will be reported in our financials on a quarterly basis. Although the detailed and comprehensive income tax expense is still calculated on a yearly basis, Cambi will start to report an expense based on the latest reported effective tax rate. So the reported income tax of NOK 20 million in Q2 is based on the profit before tax for the first half of 2024, which was around NOK 100 million and considering the effective tax rate in 2023 of 20%.

And let's move over to the balance sheet. Bank deposits increased to NOK 259 million in the second quarter, up from NOK 168 million in the same quarter last year and up from the previous quarter. Financial assets of NOK 108 million, mainly money market funds, were realized during the quarter.

We have recognized not yet invoiced revenue from construction contracts of NOK 201 million in Q2, up from NOK 75 million in the same quarter last year. And accrued project-related costs were NOK 153 million, up from NOK 96 million in the same quarter last year. There is no long-term debt and the balance sheet shows that Cambi has a solid financial position.

Finally, let's turn our attention to the cash flow statement. Operational cash flow was a solid NOK 91 million in the quarter, significantly up from the same quarter last year and from the previous quarter. The increase is primarily a result of collecting several milestone payments from the ongoing construction projects.

The purchase of fixed assets is mainly related to biosolids handling activities within our recycling segment, Grønn Vekst. Money market funds of NOK 110 million were realized during the quarter, as mentioned. Dividends of NOK 160 million were distributed to shareholders during the quarter.

And this concludes my walk-through of the financials this quarter. So let's move over to the Q&A session.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you, Eirik and Mats Tristan for an insightful presentation and to all listeners for taking the time to connect. We've already received quite a few questions, and as a reminder, you can still send them to [e-mail]. We will take incoming questions now live at the end.

So I would like to start with the first one, maybe addressed to Mats. In 2022 and 2023, you had significant currency exchange gains and losses, which impacted respectively the financial income line and the financial expense line. Could you please explain what the currency exchange gains and losses represent and are they generally expected to offset each other to a very high degree?

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

Thank you for the question. So this is related to the annual report and the note there, I believe. And I think the answer is that we have currencies or bank deposits in several different currencies and each reporting period, which is monthly, we do adjustments based on the closing rate of that reporting period. So that means that there will be fluctuations, both positive and negative, based on the exchange rate versus the NOK.

And we report it on a gross basis. So that's why you will see there is a high kind of gross gain and a high gross loss as well. So the short answer is they need to be considered together, but they are a function of the bank deposits in foreign currencies and the fluctuation of the FX rates.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you, Mats. Another question. Why did you liquidate your German subsidiary, Cambi Deutschland? And does that mean regard -- anything regarding the attractiveness of the German market for Cambi?

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

Yes. So I think this, again, is related to the annual report, where we state that the Cambi Deutschland is under liquidation. The background here is that we had a pilot project in Amperverband, which is outside Munich, where we installed and commissioned a plant in 2015. And a few years later, in 2018, the customer formally also took over the plant, so there was less need for a legal entity in Germany. But I would say it has not changed our view of the German market.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you. The next question is, in a way, more technical or regulation related. There are regulations aiming to limit the spread of PFAS, the Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances in more and more places. Some countries have even banned land application of sludges or are leaning towards such decisions.

So the question would be, could you please elaborate on the implication of this regulatory trend for Cambi, and what -- would the cost of thermal hydrolysis be justified if sludges are ultimately incinerated. Eirik, maybe you would take this question.

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

Yes. There's a lot to say about this topic. And as you said in the question, it's debated in several markets. The debate is also around what is more circular. Is it to bring important nutrients back to the soil or is it to burn it and then eventually, with time, deplete the soil content.

Some examples that have been used is that the level of PFAS in a takeaway coffee cup has more or hundreds of more PFAS in it than the biosolids. So that is one side of the debate. But also we see from interaction with utilities and consultants that the future regulation is unknown. So the utilities, they're preparing for changes in regulation, whatever that will be, whether it still will be permitted to apply to land or if it needs to be incinerated or other thermal treatments, they're preparing for that.

And that may delay decisions because of the uncertainty. But I believe that Cambi is well positioned to take part of that market. We have a solution that is future-proof. So if you decide to go the route of incineration, for example, our THP provides the better energy balance. You will have less volume and less water to incinerate.

And we have several references already about, I would estimate, 15%, 20% of our plants either have incineration or drying as the final step with references in, for example, Singapore, in Hong Kong, in Europe, where they made the decision to go with THP as a pretreatment to lower their CapEx and OpEx associated with their incineration.

So in summary, yes, it's a topic that's being heavily debated. I believe that Cambi has a future-proof solution. And the stricter the regulation, the more expensive it will be to handle the biosolids. So I think that Cambi is good positioned.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you for complete answer, Eirik. The next question is more related to where Cambi is listed now on Euronext Growth. Do we have any plans of listing on the main stock exchange on Oslo Børs?

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

Yes. So currently, there are no plans for uplisting to the main list of Oslo Børs.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you, Mats, for providing clarity on that. Next question, could you provide more information about revenue development for the rest of 2024. We don't have a specific outlook for the current year and the backlog numbers would seem to indicate a 30% decline in revenues for the second half of this year compared to the second half of last year. But also the person asking the question is saying that they do understand that the backlog for 2024 is still being built in a way.

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

Yes. So we have now provided guidance on the backlog distribution. So that provides you with what I believe is a pretty good indication of performance. We have around NOK 500 million now so far this year in -- for the first half. If you take around 25%, which is the guiding on the backlog of NOK 1.5 billion, that adds up to NOK 400 million more on the second half of 2024. And we -- then in addition, you can add on sales that is not a part of the backlog. It can be spare parts, soil, bulk soil sales and so on. And of course, also new orders that we signed that needs to be added on top of this.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you. Follow-up question, almost on that. Can you provide more color on the expected margin development for the second half of this year and into next year?

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

Yes. So again, we don't guide specifically on margins. We are satisfied of being able to uphold the margin levels that we have had now for the previous period and despite inflationary pressure and also strong growth. So we're very happy with that.

And we do expect to see pressure on gross margins going forward. And there are many reasons for why that could be. But I would like to kind of maybe highlight that we do outsource slightly more of our manufacturing. So there could be some impact on the gross margins there.

And in addition as well, the project mix, of course, where we now have 2 large EPC projects, which is going to be delivered -- 2 Norwegian EPC projects, which is going to be delivered during, yes, rest of 2024 and '25 in FREVAR and Veas, the 2 Norwegian EPC projects.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you, Mats Tristan. So in a way, again, continuing on outlook and guiding. The next question is whether -- or why don't we or is there a reason why we don't have a full year outlook. There is, of course, the quarterly fluctuation in revenue and incoming orders. So do we have an intention of having specific long-term goals anytime soon?

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

Yes. So in terms of short-term goals, I think what we are focused on is to create long-term shareholder value. So that's why we're not focused on this shorter-term guidances, such as revenue outlook for the year. And in terms of long-term goals, we -- for those of you who have been following us after the IPO, we had -- for a long period, we had this 24-month guidance on order intake, but we abandoned this in 2023, as you might have noticed.

And I think the short answer to that is because we acknowledge that predicting the timing of when such orders were signed was quite challenging for Cambi. So we have, as of now, no plans to start with long-term guidance again.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you. And the next question is relating to trading volume of Cambi stock, which is quite low. And the person that send this question says that it seems to fly under the radar. So do we have any plans to raise awareness of the company among investors?

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

Yes, I can probably take that one. We engage with the investor community through conferences and we're also building now a new Investor Relations portal. So for us, it's important to make sure that we engage with the investment community.

But we, of course, we see that our shareholder base which is -- we have two quite large shareholders holding close to 80% of the share. There are also employees in the company, long-term employees that have shares in the company. So we also see that the volume can be low. But we try to engage with as much as possible with relevant conferences and stay active also on LinkedIn and other platforms.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you. The next question is if the stock value remains relatively low as appraised by the person sending it, are you planning to do buybacks instead of paying dividends?

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

Yes. So this also probably I can answer it. We reiterate our ambition to pay 60% to 80% of dividends for the fiscal year 2024. And in terms of buybacks, the Annual General Meeting has provided -- there was a resolution passed on the Annual General Meeting, providing the Board with sufficient opportunity to buy back shares. But as of this point in time, there are no buyback programs active.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you, Mats Tristan. Next question, can you give some visibility or comments on the sales pipeline and tender activity and expectations for the third quarter?

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

Yes, I can take that. When it comes to the sales pipeline, we monitor that on a long-term basis, and we still have a solid pipeline of projects. But guiding on a quarterly basis is something that, as Mats Tristan mentioned earlier, we stopped doing back in 2023. So providing kind of pipeline estimates and stages on a short-term basis is not something that we'll be doing. What I can say is that the tender activity remains high, and there's good traction in the market.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you, Eirik. And I think a short follow-up question on that, which is our last question. In which regions do you see the best potential for new order intake?

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

Well, we are -- obviously, as you can see from our footprint, we're active in many markets. the mature markets that we're in that's of a certain size are typically in the U.S., which is a very interesting market for Cambi both because of our position as the only THP provider in the market and the number of references that we have and by merit size.

The comparison that I've used before is the population of Norway with currently 10 references and probably around 5 to 7 more plants in Norway and then you look at the U.S. So it's very interesting new market. The U.K. is entering a new AMP period, which is kind of investment cycles of 5 years. So that is still an attractive market where we already have a market share of 50%.

And in Europe and emerging markets in Asia, they're all -- they all have solid pipeline. So there's many good markets for Cambi, but kind of the ones that we already have a strong presence in, I mentioned the U.S., I mentioned the U.K. and Europe are good markets.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thanks a lot, Eirik, and Mats Tristan, and thank you, everyone, for following us for more than 45 minutes until the end. This presentation has been recorded and will be available later today on the website under Reports and Presentations section. Thank you for the participation today. And should you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact us at [e-mail]. Have a wonderful day. Goodbye.