Cambi ASA

OSE:CAMBI

Earnings Call Transcript 2024-Q1

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Good morning, and thank you for joining us for Cambi's presentation of its first quarter results for 2024. My name is Dragos Talvescu and I'm Director of Corporate Relations at Cambi. Over the next 30 minutes or so, you will hear from Cambi's CEO, Eirik Fadnes; and CFO, Mats Tristan as they highlight our business achievements and financial performance for the first quarter. We will address any questions you have at the end of this presentation. Please send your queries to investor relations at investor.cambi.com. Please be aware that during this presentation, we may make forward-looking statements. These statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the projected outcomes. Now without further delay, I am pleased to hand over to Cambi's CEO, Eirik Fadnes.

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

Thank you, Dragos, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. Before we dive into the details of our first quarter financials, which Mats Tristan will cover shortly, I'd like to provide you with a quick operational and business overview. This past quarter, we've seen growth in revenue compared to last year, although at a slower pace than in previous quarters as a result of fewer project milestones reached. The EBITDA margin ended at 17%. We maintained a healthy gross margin above 50%, in line with that of the past few quarters. Our overhead is in line with the end of last year, but up compared to the first quarter last year at the back of inflation and increased head count to support our investments in marketing and sales, R&D services build up and more projects under execution. Our order intake was higher than last year, with significant wins in both the Technology and Solutions segments. Notably, we secured our first engineering contract in France. While small in value, this marks a major step towards entering a promising new market. Our book-to-bill ratio ended at 1.9 and we're closing the quarter with a solid order backlog of NOK 1.7 billion. This positions us well for sustained operations and revenue going forward.Now let's shift our focus to operations. To give everyone a clear picture of what we do and where we fit in, in terms of scope and project execution, I'd like to first look at the sludge management process from untreated sewage through to biosolids management. Urban wastewater is collected and transported to treatment plants where it undergoes treatment in a multiple step process to remove most particles before returning the clean water to nature. The main by product known as sewage sludge or wastewater solids, is difficult and expensive to treat and dispose of. It is rich in resources, but it retains a lot of water. It's smelly and contains pathogens and other unwanted substances. Among the ways to treat sewage sludge anaerobic digestion is the main method aligned with the EU taxonomy. Thermal hydrolysis is essentially a temperature and pressure-based catalyst for aerobic digestion making it as effective and efficient as possible. The remaining product called biosolids is transported away from the plant and handed in accordance with local regulations. In this value chain, you will find our Cambi THP equipment in the storage treatment step and Grønn Vekst handling transportation and biosolids reused to land in Norway. In this short video, you can see what is typically included in a sludge line with thermal hydrolysis technology from free dewatering equipment to a sludge storage and buffering silo. Feed pumps, they can be THP, the boiler, the heat exchanger, all retrofitted in this case to improve an existing digester. The specific equipment we deliver depends on the project requirements, but it comes prepackaged in modular units and can be adjusted to any site layout and erected quickly. That's why we call it plug and go. Cambi fits in almost any wastewater treatment plant over a certain market-specific size and significantly improves all aspects of our sludge treatment. But each project is different. THP may be adopted at a new wastewater treatment plant or an existing site with contingencies related to technology and land and space availability. The project may encompass the entire wastewater treatment plant or focus on the study treatment line, which is Cambi's area of expertise. And the project rationale may be to expand treatment capacity, replace oxalete equipment and technologies or a Combination of the 2. Integrating the different technologies in a wafer treatment plant in an optimal manner is very important for its robustness and cost effectiveness. So the type of project determines what scope Cambi is comfortable taking to draw on its strengths and experiences, maintaining healthy margins and not take unnecessary risk. Typically, we work with main contractors holding direct EPC contracts with city authorities. Depending on the project's requirements, our involvement can range from just delivering our patented equipment to take responsibility for an entire sludge line. This strategic positioning allows us to remain technology neutral, offering our best solutions to all EPC bidders ultimately benefiting the plant owners. In Scandinavia, we have examples of Cambi holding EPC contract directly due to our strong local capabilities. So let's examine 2 projects to illustrate how our scope can vary. In Copenhagen, we were awarded a turnkey contract for the domicile and wastewater treatment plant, which involves delivering a comprehensive solution that encompasses the design, construction and commissioning of a new THP plant, including the building. This project is structured to provide a full service approach, delivering an end-to-end system that Cambi will develop and operationalize. In San Francisco, the local Public Utilities Commission selected Cambi to deliver our thermal hydrolysis technology as part of the upgrade of the Southeast treatment plant. This contract involves the installation of 3 THP systems. Unlike the turnkey solution in Copenhagen, the San Francisco project is part of a broader infrastructure upgrade focusing on integrating Cambis technology within the existing framework to enhance the facilities by solids management capabilities. These distinctions highlight our ability to adapt our offerings to meet different project needs, ranging from complete turnkey solutions to specific technological integrations within larger infrastructure projects.Our project execution typically spans 2 to 3 years from contract award to handover, moving through the stages of basic engineering design detailed in the engineering design, we submit all approvals, proceeding to manufacture, then on to transportation, installation and finally, commissioning and performance testing, after which the THP system is usually handed over to the client. You note that our progress is not linear, and it varies depending on project scope, complexity and the main contractors progress. At the end of the first quarter, as you can see from this slide, we had a significant number of projects in the engineering stage. Although we plan for long lead items well in advance of manufacturing kickoff, substantial progress occurs after engineering is approved by the client. Manufacturing of Cambi proprietary equipment is timed carefully to optimize capacity utilization in the workshop in Congleton throughout the year while delivering all equipment to decide in line with contractual commitments and in the case of delays to prevailing client schedules. In greenfield projects and for complex upgrades, Cambi's part of the scope may be towards the end of the total projects and delays are not uncommon. In some cases, once the foundation work is ready, Cambi may be able to install its equipment on site and even tested on steam. However, commissioning on sludge before handover typically requires all elements of the sludge line to be delivered and ready for start-up. In exceptional cases, this can take more than 1 year after Cambi was essentially ready with its delivery. Some of the projects where Cambi is ready for start-up, but waiting on other parts of the sludge line to be ready, are typically not included in the reported number of ongoing construction contracts as usually only the last milestone and a small portion of the contract value is left. Moving on, I would like to talk about the 2 main contracts secured in the quarter. Hawaii has become the 12th U.S. state to adopt Cambi's technology. This project enhances local waste management efficiency and sustainability. The consistent adoption across the U.S. in the last years highlight strong market drivers for our solutions, making it a promising market for further growth. In addition, as already mentioned, we signed our first engineering study in France this quarter. It's marking an important step in opening yet another promising market. Moving on to the Veas project. Cambi secured one of Norway's most substantial ISO's handling contract for the best fuel and oiling system. Cambi is on track to deliver a THP system to bias in 2026, and we look forward to realizing the synergies between our robust technology and [indiscernible] expertise in turning biosolids into high-quality soil products. Working together, we aim to enable Veas to boost the circular economy for energy and sole nutrients and improving the health of the fueled ecosystems in the Austro area. Since the end of the first quarter, Grønn Vekst has won a contract renewal and will continue handling the garden waste in better municipality for the coming 3 to 4 years. And just last Thursday, the AGM approved the Board's proposal for a dividend payout of NOK 1 per share. In total, it's NOK 160 million in dividends, which is the largest dividend payout in Cambi's history and is nearly 90% of the net profits for 2023. Looking ahead, the outlook for Cambi's business remains positive as we continue to follow our strategic initiatives to deliver sustainable growth in both Technology and Solutions segments. We continue to execute contracts in line with budgets, client commitments inside schedules, and we safeguard our margins while maintaining high customer satisfaction. There is a high activity level in research and development, in marketing, sales and services, and we have been expanding the team accordingly while focusing on maintaining a sustainable cost level by leveraging operational efficiencies. This year, we're attending a record number of national and international water sector events. In our encounter with water utility companies, we noticed a rising awareness and commercial interest in our solutions. The engineering contract in Dunkirk France o is a good example of early-stage project development. It also represents a Cambi way of working to engage with relevant decision-makers at an early stage of infrastructure planning in master plans and feasibility studies. Although there's a long way until potential contract is awarded, early dialogue is an effective way to place thermal hydrolysis on the solution map and to build our long-term project pipeline. Together with a growing project pipeline and several projects moving closer to contract award, I'm optimistic about Cambi's potential for long-term value creation for urban communities and shareholders. With a solid order backlog, a growing installed base and a growing services team supporting THP plants globally, we're in a good position to deliver on our growth strategy. And with this, I will hand it over to Mats Tristan, who will take you through the financials.

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

Thank you, Eirik, and good morning, everyone. I'll now take you through the financials for the first quarter. It's been an eventful quarter for Cambi, and here are some of the financial highlights. We report steady progress on an all-time high number of construction projects. Order intake was reported at over NOK 400 million in the first quarter. We have a significant backlog at NOK 1.7 billion by the end of the quarter, which provides good visibility for future activity levels. We also report a solid financial position with NOK 334 million in cash and financial assets at the end of the quarter. And a shareholder dividend of NOK 1 per share was approved by the AGM last week, as Eirik mentioned. Let's take a look at the consolidated financials. We reported revenue of NOK 216 million for the quarter, which is slightly up from the same quarter last year, but down from the all-time high reported revenue in the previous quarter. This is mainly a result of fewer milestones being reached on ongoing construction projects. And I'll comment more on this shortly as a part of the financials in the technology segment. Gross margins remained stable at 53%, in line with previous quarters, but down versus the same quarter last year. And this is mainly due to the segment mix where the Solutions segment, which on average, has lowered gross margins is a larger part of the revenue mix this quarter. In addition, the project mix in the Technology segment has a higher share of projects with extended scope than in the same quarter last year. The EBITDA was reported at 36 million, down from the same quarter last year and the previous quarter. And this is due to less contribution from ongoing construction projects in addition to a higher OpEx level, mainly from an increase in payroll costs from a growing Cambi organization. Let's take a look at the performance of our business segments. The Technology segment is mainly related to sales, R&D, manufacturing and delivery of THP systems. And the segment makes out 75% of the total revenue for the quarter. The revenue came in at NOK 161 million, which is slightly down from the same quarter last year and down from the previous quarter. As I mentioned, this is due to fewer milestones being reached on ongoing construction projects. Revenue from construction projects are recognized according to the percentage of completion method, which follows management's best estimate on progress, which is based on the level of completion, incurred costs and our spend compared to the total estimate for each project. At some sites, we see delays in deliveries outside of Cambi's scope, which has a spillover effect for our delivery schedules. And changes in project schedules are normal, and I'd like to highlight that Cambi set to deliver in line with all contracted commitments on our construction projects. At the end of the quarter, there were 16 ongoing construction projects in various stages of completion, up from 13% in the same period last year. Gross margin was reported at a solid 57%, up from previous quarters, but down from the same quarter last year. This is mainly due to project mix, where the share of EPC projects, where Cambi has an extended delivery scope and naturally lower margins is higher this quarter than the same quarter last year. The EBITDA came in at NOK 30 million, down from NOK 60 million in the same quarter last year, mainly due to fewer milestones being reached on the ongoing projects and a lower gross margin. The OpEx was in line with the same quarter last year and down from the previous quarter. Let's have a look at the financials for the Solutions segment. The segment covers our service offering to existing THP customers and the recycling company Grønn Vekst. And the share of the revenue for the segment was 25% of the total group revenue this quarter. Revenue was NOK 55 million in the quarter, up from NOK 38 million in the same quarter last year, but down from previous quarters. The revenue development can mainly be attributed to an increase in the activity level for services versus the same quarter last year. There is seasonality in soil sales for Grønn Vekst with lower activity during the colder winter months. And the segment had ongoing construction projects by the end of the quarter, which is on the same level as for Q1 last year. Gross margin was reported at 43%, which is significantly up versus the same quarter last year and slightly lower than the previous quarter. Compared to the Technology segment, the revenue mix in the Solutions segment has a wider range in gross margins, ranging from biosolids handling contracts, 2 additional THP equipment delivering for existing clients. This is influencing the reported gross margin from quarter-to-quarter. EBITDA was reported at NOK 6 million, which is up NOK 9 million versus the same quarter last year. And the uplift is mainly from increased activity in the Services sub-segment during the quarter, offset by higher payroll expenses due to a growing segment organization. Now let's come out and look at the bigger picture. Here, we see the key financials development for the group on a rolling last 12-month basis, including Q1. And we can clearly see how Cambi has built up momentum towards a revenue level of NOK 1 billion over the last quarters. On an LTM basis, there has been revenue growth each quarter since Q3 2022, including this quarter. We have been able to protect our gross margins despite the strong top line growth and the margin level is higher compared to the levels that we reported in 2022. This shows the scalability of our business. And let's look at the same LTM view on the key financials per segment. The strong revenue buildup is clearly visible in the Technology segment on the left, driven by the record high order intake over the recent quarters. And as we have talked about before, we expect the segment to have variations in the financial performance due to the timing of contract awards. On the right, we see the LTM development of the Solutions segment, which, as we can see, forms a solid base of growing revenue and profits for Cambi. As more and more construction contracts are delivered, our potential customer base for services is increasing. And we are constantly focused on providing customer support by offering our value-added solutions throughout the asset's lifetime. Let's turn our attention to the order intake for the quarter. The order intake was NOK 401 million in the quarter, up from NOK 223 million in the same quarter last year. We announced 3 contracts during the quarter, on construction contracts, on biosolids handling contract and 1 engineering study. The reported order intake also includes changes in the value of the reported order backlog due to FX effects, where the weakening of the NOK at the end of this quarter versus the end of 2023, has provided an uplift. And as Eirik mentioned, we were awarded a major contract in Hawaii. In addition, Grønn Vekst was awarded an important biosolids handling contract for Veas in Norway. And the financial impact of the engineering study in Dunkirk France is limited, but it's an important step towards a future potential THP system delivery. Following the end of the quarter, we have also announced another small garden waste handling contract for Grønn Vekst next for Bærum, Norway. Let's take a look at the order backlog. The order backlog was NOK 1.7 billion by the end of the quarter, up from NOK 1 billion in the same quarter last year and up from NOK 1.5 billion in the previous quarter. The backlog increase is mainly derived from the order intake, combined with fewer milestones being reached on ongoing construction contracts and a favorable FX effects, lifting the value of the order backlog. As can be seen, the backlog is most related to construction projects within the technology segment, but also includes some services projects and the biosolids handling and gardening waste handling contracts for Grønn Vekst. The order backlog for solutions reached an all-time high at NOK 267 million in Q1. And this solid order backlog provides good visibility for future activity levels for Cambi. Let's take a closer look at the breakdown of the order backlog. The order backlog distribution by execution gear is illustrated on the left-hand side. And we expect to convert 35% of the order backlog of NOK 1.7 billion to revenues this year. On the right-hand side, we have provided the breakdown of the order backlog by currency. Around 1/3 of the backlog is in NOK, while the rest is mainly in U.S. dollars and euros. And going forward, we expect the share of FX in the backlog to be higher, which will further increase our exposure to currency rate fluctuations, which could be a risk for future financial performance. Let's take a look at the income statement. Revenue for the quarter was slightly up versus last year. The change in FX rates have a positive impact on the reported revenue but also impacts the reported OpEx from quarter-to-quarter. Although most of the OpEx is based in NOK, a significant part is in British pounds, followed by euros and dollars. Payroll came in at NOK 49 million, up from NOK 39 million in the same quarter last year, but down from previous quarter. This is mainly due to an increasing size and scope of the Cambi organization. The head count in Q1 is up 17% compared to the same quarter last year, and we have welcomed many new colleagues over the last months. The difference in payroll can also be attributed to annual salary adjustments, which are high due to inflationary pressure. The reported payroll in Q1 also includes a higher level of sales bonuses compared to the same quarter last year, which is driven by the high number of signed contracts last year. Sales bonuses are paid out and accounted for when Cambi received milestone payments from clients over the duration of the project delivery, which is normally around 2 to 3 years. In addition, last quarter, the reported payroll included a bonus accrual as a part of the new remuneration policy implemented during 2023 for all Cambi employees. In '24, we will do this bonus accrual on a quarterly basis, which means that a bonus accrual is included in the reported Q1 payroll figure. Other operating expenses were reported at 29 million, which is slightly down from the same quarter last year and the previous quarter. And we continue to invest in sales, marketing and R&D to enable future growth. Depreciation and amortization is in line with previous quarters and is mainly related to the acquired technology portfolio in 2022. Depreciation of this portfolio will be concluded during next year. The reported net financial items was negative NOK 9 million, down from negative NOK 2 million in the same quarter last year. The net financial items for the quarter are mainly driven by effects. The income tax expense is calculated on an annual basis. Let's take a look at the balance sheet. Noncurrent assets continued to decrease due to the depreciation of the acquired technology portfolio, as I just mentioned. And also, we have communicated earlier, our investments in R&D are not activated as intangible assets on our balance sheet. We have a solid financial position and bank deposits and financial assets, mainly money market funds were NOK 334 million in the quarter, up from NOK 301 million in the same quarter last year. During this period, a total of NOK 120 million of dividends have been distributed. We have recognized and not yet invoiced revenue from construction contracts at NOK 169 million, up from NOK 90 million in the same quarter last year. Accrued project-related costs were NOK150 million, up from NOK 17 million in the same quarter last year. Our deferred tax of NOK 13 million has been recorded as a noncurrent liability since the previous quarter. Finally, let's turn our attention to the cash flow statements. Operational cash flow was negative NOK 12 million, down from NOK 34 million in the same quarter last year. The decrease is mainly related to fewer milestone payments received during the quarter from ongoing construction contracts. Cash flow from investments remain at a low level and are mainly related to Grønn Vekst , and there was no cash flow from financing during the quarter. So before we round off, I'd like to again quickly mention that the approved dividend of NOK 1 per share has been approved by the Annual General Meeting last week. And the share is already trading ex dividend and the dividend distribution will be done during May. We reiterate our previous communication that our ambition is to pay out dividends of 60% to 80% of net profits for the fiscal year 2024. And this concludes my walk-through of the financial performance for the first quarter. So let's move over to the Q&A session.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Thank you, Mats Tristan and Eirik for an insightful presentation and to all listeners for taking the time to tune in. As a reminder to everyone, you can still send your questions to [e-mail]. We have already received quite a few. So let's get started. The first question is, what is the usual length of a project from a word to competition as a reference to Page 7 on the presentation. Eirik, maybe you could answer it.

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

As mentioned during the presentation, a normal time of execution is 2 to 3 years, but it will depend on the scope and complexity of the project, but also the main contractors project schedule. But in the contracts that we announced, we normally state the year of handover or when it's entering operations.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Moving on to the next question. What is the typical return on investment and payback period for your customers when they buy a thermal hydrolysis unit? The use cases where the cost of buying is not paid back.

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

So it will depend on the local drivers. Meaning the biogas price or the biosolids handling costs. We see different cases depending on these factors. But we have some cases also with immediate payback. For instance, the project in Washington, D.C. the payback was immediate where the customer was able to save a lot of CapEx from investing in Cambi's THP on other parts of the wastewater treatment plant. So in this case, it was immediate. And I think now they have annual savings of around $20 million per year. So this is a benefit also on the ongoing side that they will get over the duration of the asset's lifetime, which typically is around 20 years. And for the second question, I think the customer will always receive benefit from the THP. The payback, as I mentioned differs, but the lifetime of the assets typically around 20 years. It's a very robust process and a robust technology. So the customer will get will always get the benefits.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Next question is about the rationality for Veolia to sell their thermal hydrolysis technologies, so namely the Exelys and the Biothelys trademarks in patent in May 2022.

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

Yes, I can answer that. Well, it's difficult for me to comment on the Veolia's rationale. I think that is best directed to Bolon.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Next question, who are your biggest competitors?

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

Well, Cambi is the global leader with most of the global THP capacity installed. There are different ways to sludge management. But our biggest competitor, I would say is still to continue as before and not adopt the pretreatment technology that will improve this large management at various sites. So again, Cambi's by far the global market leader within THP. And our main bottleneck in growth, and the biggest competitor is to -- yes, in sales and marketing and getting more cities and municipalities aware of the benefits of our pretreatment solution.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

I will move on to the next question since we have quite a few. Looking at Europe, you have many reference plants in certain countries such as Norway, U.K., Denmark, but very few or in other countries like France, Germany, for example. Other than for the markets where you have a big presence, what explains the difference really? And EPC contractors, which are often international, are they behaving differently in promoting thermohydraulics, or technologies from market to market.

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

So there were a few questions in that question, mostly related to Europe, I believe. And I would say that in Cambi we do have references in 15 different countries in Europe. In addition to the ones listed, we have 4 references in Poland. We have 3 in Spain. We have 4 in Benelux. And we also mentioned in the recent award of an engineering contract in France. So we have a reference outside of Munich in Germany. So we do have a good presence in Europe. But even though the EU and in Europe in general has similar regulation, there are local preferences in how to handle the biosolids. And that is part of the reason why you can see in certain countries, especially the German-speaking part of Europe. We don't have such a strong presence at the moment. They have historically been favoring incineration as opposed to land application where you will find the biggest drivers, the strongest drivers financially for Cambi. But we see a change in that and that there's more focus on the energy balance being more efficient at the waste for the treatment plant. So in the long term, I believe there is a good potential in the German-speaking part of Europe as well. There was a question about EPC contractors. Those are obviously important. We do meet the same contractors in various countries, but there's also local contractors. But when they answer and tenders, these specs are normally decided already. And our involvement is primarily towards cities consultants as part of their biosolids master plans and early planning of projects to make sure that the THP is considered as part of the solution. But as I mentioned, EPC contractors are important, but it varies, I guess, it's the final answer.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

You still have the opportunity to send us your questions at [e-mail]. I will now move on with another question. Could you shed some more light on the mentioned delays in deliveries that are outside of Cambi's control? Which projects are impacted by such delays? And for how long are the projects expected to be impacted negatively?

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

These delays are quite normal as a part of a normal project execution. It's just an updated schedule in terms of the progress of projects. So this is quite normal. And the delay is permanent in the sense that it will impact how fast we can recognize the revenue of delays. But as you have seen, we have guided on the project execution and the percentage of completion for the backlog that we have.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

I think this is probably a good follow-up question for that, Mats. It's very specific, whether the delays will impact the second quarter negatively.

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

Yes. So I think we have guided how much of the backlog we will convert to revenues in 2024. So this gives a good indication, but we will not comment on the quarterly specifics. But around 35% of the order backlog of NOK 1.7 billion, we expect to convert to revenues this year.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

The next question. When do you expect a reversal of the Q1 increase in accurate project-related costs?

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

So this is depending on the milestone payments. And the milestone payments will be closely linked to how we measure the percentage of completion of the different projects. So I think the way we recognize the revenue will be a good approximation of this. However, the milestone payments will have different triggers from project to project. So it will depend on when we reach those invoicing triggers basically. And as you saw in Eirik's part of the presentation, we have quite a lot of projects now in the engineering phase. And as you saw from that S curve, typically once you move over to later stages, such as manufacturing, the percentage of completion will also then increase.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

I'll move on to the next question. Could you provide some more details about the potential project in Dunkirk in France? When do you expect to complete the engineering study? And when is the customer deciding on the project?

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

In general, the design phase can vary from projected projects typically anywhere between 6 to 18 months for the Dunkirk project. We have indicated a finalization of the design work in the first half this year. What happens thereafter is at the discretion of the main contractor. The main contractor has been awarded, and that's the ones that we're supporting now with engineering contract. But when and if they will be awarding Cambi construction contract is, as I mentioned, the discretion. So it's difficult to comment on exactly when to expect that to come in.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

The next question is about gross margin in technology. And the listener is asking to comment on the fall from 69.3% to 56.8%, so between 2023 and Q1 2024.

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

As I mentioned in my part of the presentation, this is mostly related to the mix of projects. So the share of projects where Cambi has a larger scope, typically extended scope. We talked about EPC projects. We naturally have a lower margin. So the share of those projects is bigger now in the first quarter of 2024 than it was in the same quarter last year. So this is driving that development in the gross margin.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

Next question. Why were the net financial items, minus 9 million for the quarter, an increase of 7 million.

[Mats Tjemsl, executive]

So this is mostly related to unrealized currency losses. So it will depend on the currency rate fluctuations in the currencies that we interact with. So it's unrealized and depending on the currencies and the rate fluctuation. But also, it includes an elevated level of bank guarantees versus the same quarter last year. We have more projects now than before. So there's a slight elevated level on this as well. But the main driver is the currency rate fluctuation.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

One more question. The outlook in the report sounded more bullish now compared to the last quarterly report. Would you say you have seen an uptick in potential order activity in the market since Q4?

[Eirik Fadnes, executive]

I wouldn't say that there's a significant change from the end of last year until now. But we do continue having a good momentum. We see a growing pipeline of projects. Tender activity is also high. And there is a positive feedback from the market that we see from both the national and international conferences that we attend. But a change within the quarter, I would say that is not the case.

[Dragos Talvescu, executive]

I've been sinking here at the inbox all the time. I think we have answered all the questions we've received so far. So with that, this presentation has been recorded will be made available later today on the Cambi website under the Reports and Presentations section. Thank you, everyone, for your attention and participation today. And should you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact us. Have a wonderful day. Goodbye.