Terveystalo Oyj
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Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Terveystalo's Results Call and Webcast for the Financial Year 2019. My name is Kati Kaksonen, and I'm in charge of Investor Relations here at Terveystalo. Today, we have our new CEO, Ville Iho; and our CFO, Ilkka Laurila presenting the results. And additionally, we have a special guest today from our largest Finnish employer, S Group who will give a case example on our collaboration.Without further ado, I'll give the speech over to Ville. But just as a reminder, we have the Q&A session after the presentation, and we'll take questions through the phone lines and through the webcast. Thank you.
Thank you, Kati. Good morning from my behalf as well. Happy to be here. First time presenting Terveystalo results. Let's start from the overall view on 2019, which we can state was a financially and operationally excellent year. Looking at the revenue growth, we exceeded EUR 1 billion during 2019, which is a great landmark, obviously. Putting things a little bit in the perspective comparing to 2015, we have doubled our revenue, so it's a great achievement by this company. A couple of key KPIs, which I want to comment shortly. First of all, obviously, revenue growth, then adjusted EBITDA, we slightly missed last year's EBITDA percentage, but taking into account the integration of Attendo, which is from a structure point of view, lower-margin business, I -- we deem this as a good result still. A number of physician appointments in millions -- growth was 6%. And this one needs to be put into a perspective in a way that a number of physicians in Finland, the net growth annually is around 1%. And this is now apples-to-apples comparison, excluding Attendo-related outsourcings, dental and staffing businesses. So 6% growth means that we have been able to gain more than our fair share from the market and this is really, really important going forward. We are gaining more than our share and everybody knows how strained this physician supply today is. So this is a really important and positive for us going forward. Remote appointments, growth rate 60% is -- that's a high number, obviously. Figure itself 150,000 appointments is not at the high end of a scale yet, but the growth rate is high. And my expectation for this year actually is that this is going to be exceeding and this is going to be a tipping point year in a way for digital services to properly scale up, and we are geared for this change and we are seeing a lot of supply and a lot of demand coming to our new services.NPS customer experience KPI, all-time high, so 72.4, which is, as I said, all-time high. And this, again, putting this one into a perspective, the utilization rate of our appointments and our services have been all-time high. So against that fact, us able -- being able to give excellent service, better service than in previous years, is very, very good achievement from our organization. It's very easy to give excellent service when you have low utilization rate and decreasing number of customers. But in this environment, and in our case, this is really, really positive and really, really good from our people. Then, of course, our scale when it comes to employers, is growing rapidly. We are a big employer due to -- especially due to M&A activities, especially due to Attendo integration. But all in all, a very, very strong year from Terveystalo and 360 view of our operations and our financial numbers all speak the same language, we are going strong. Then, as a new CEO, of course, I need to take a little bit of outside in view on our organization, operations also a lot of questions are obviously popping up around what are we going to do next? What is our strategy going forward? This is sort of stating the obvious, quality is going to be in core of our operations and in core of our strategy going forward as well. I come from aviation industry, which is, as you know, highly, highly quality driven, quality systems, safety-related systems are world-leading in that industry. Taking outside in view at Terveystalo from this angle, I can say that the value base of our organization, our people is solid. People are taking quality, be it operational quality, medical quality or customer experience to their heart and acting accordingly. So this is a very strong foundation. Also, our systems, when it comes to our quality systems, are working in -- I would say, they are mature, they are working properly, they are working well. They are supporting our development going forward. So this has been a very, very positive finding from my behalf. Assessing our operations further and what are we going to do next a little bit in more detail. I think you are familiar with our sort of overall conceptual description of our operations. We have talked about and Ilkka has been talking about this funnel view through our different layers of services, and this is going to be very important also going forward. We need to be able to serve efficiently and with good customer experience. Basically there's 3 different customer segments and different layers in our service chain. And what it requires going forward is that we develop and strengthen our sort of system skills, our core brain, which manages customer flows, manages our supply and matches supply with the demand. And in this area, we have been investing in this, but we continue investing in this one even more going forward. Utilization rate in our funnel in different services, they are already very high. Everybody knows that this is a physician supply, continues to be a bottleneck. We need to be able to further increase the utilization rate, but we also need to be smart in a way that we in our sort of analytical system layer. We analyze each and every transaction so that we need -- from individual customer level what kind of service is optimal for him or her and what kind of services at the same time optimal for our business and our service chain. And this is going to be a very much in the core of development going forward and part of our strategy also. We are very good. When I'm -- again, assessing our capabilities and skills, taking still a little bit of an outside in view, I can say when comparing our skills and capabilities even globally, I can say that we are sort of masters of managing care chains. Finnish system has educated us in this area more than, I would say, any other system in the world or globally. We can assess customers and their needs. We can guide them through our service layers very efficiently and give very good supply and response whenever needed. And this is one of our key strengths. Our strategy consideration. Obviously, we'll take a look at other aspects as well. World is changing. And obviously, Terveystalo as well is taking more consumer-centric view and we are developing a dialogue and dialogue -- constant dialogue with our customers, so that we are partner with our customers, also when they are not having any acute needs in our services, but also in between. And I think we are very well positioned to do that because we are dealing with an area which is very sensitive, very close to the heart for our customers, and we can be the most trusted partner for the consumer base. I'm sure of that. Then obviously, we are looking at the M&A activities as well, and also assessing if the market and service scope, which we are currently serving is the one that we will stick also in the future. We have, let's say, our eyes open. We will come out with our strategy on 27th of May with the Capital Markets Day. And then obviously, we will have more to say about this, but I'm sure it's going to be interesting. And looking at the elements, looking at our strength, looking at the capabilities and competencies in-house already today, we are very well positioned for our renewed strategy going forward. We have a case example today, as said, Sanna-Mari Myllynen from S Group will give a flavor what kind of solutions can be achieved when Terveystalo's capabilities -- flexibility when it comes to one customer segment and one customer in particular, when we are matching our sort of ideas, our needs and our capabilities. What can really in practice be achieved and how we, at the same time, serving our customers, customers' customers and our business. Please welcome Sanna-Mari.
Thank you. Thank you. My name is Sanna-Mari Myllynen, and I work in S Group. And there, as a Director of Well-being Health and my job is to serve our 19 corporate -- our 19 regional cooperatives that makes us -- we would say the biggest -- one of the biggest companies in Finland. So this case is actually -- I'm telling you about our cooperation with Terveystalo, when we wanted to start our mental -- supporting the mental health of our employees. This is -- there are a few pictures of our business. We are mainly in retail business and service sector. Huge -- wide service range in a huge resource, have to say. And like I said, we are the largest private employer in Finland. We have 40,000 employees, and business also in Russia, Estonia, but, of course, mainly in Finland. And we started a few years ago the program called Young Mind at Work. And the reason we started it is that 23% of our employees are under 25 years old, so 10,000 employees. And in that time, we saw that the mental disorders and the challenges with mind started to grow. Also, the pictures what we were looking at Finland, but also our pictures. And so we wanted to react as soon as possible. And so we gathered the experts in Terveystalo and started to work together and innovate together, what we should do when we are facing that challenge. Here is the picture of whole Finland within this challenge. So mental disorders became the largest cause for sickness allowance days in Finland. And I believe that this is kind of -- same kind of picture in whole Northern Europe at least at the moment. But the main picture is here. I'm very, very happy the way we have been able to cooperate and very, very happy the way that we have been innovating together with the experts of Terveystalo, and so within this program, Young Mind at Work, we actually created this mental support model that we have now been piloting in a couple of companies in S Group. And this case that I'm now telling you is about SOK, with -- which is our, how to say, a central administrative company that serves whole S Group. And these other -- the factors that actually include in our mental health support model and I would like to point out this organizational and leadership culture, which very, very important in this model. Supervisor's training at adaptive work practice for supporting recovering from mental disorders. Meaning that the employees don't have to stay for so long for sick leave. And they are able to come back to work even that they are not -- haven't recovered totally yet.Occupational psychology consultation, pre- psychotherapy and this new digital services, Mielen chat and Sparri and actually, the last part is the one that was invented in this program. And the results that we have now -- we are now seeing from this model. I have to say in this part that we are just starting. And that we haven't been implementing this model in whole S Group yet, but we have very promising results within those companies who have taken this model into use. So in SOK, we have 1,700 employees that are experts, very highly educated experts. Usually we have been able to decrease about 20%, our sick leaves -- sickness absence -- sick leave days caused by mental disorders. We have invested EUR 49,000 in the brief psychotherapy and the digital services Mielen chat and Sparri. So -- and our cost saving are about EUR 140,000 in sickness absence days. And when we are able to take the model into use in whole S Group, we can, of course, think of totally different numbers. As much as we can trust that this model really works. And in the end, we have learned some lessons. And also, I think this is very important when we are creating something together with the customers are -- or creating something together with some -- anybody that is always a process where we have to learn. We have had a very successful cooperation and joint development and seamless cooperation when working towards shared targets, and we always have to have shared targets when we are working together. No single entity, such as individual or employer, supervisor, organization or occupational health care service can solve this mental -- this issue with this mental disorders. This is a huge issue in the whole country. Cost savings in sickness days are higher than the costs for supporting mental health, and we are very satisfied, of course, for that. And despite very encouraging results in SOK. Like I said before, S Group is still in the beginning, and we are -- we want to very strongly support our company to take this model into use. And also, it is very important that all parties in the society participate in this work. Otherwise, the employees, individuals and entire country will have a huge build pay. Thank you. If there are some questions or do you want them to ask in the end. Okay. Yes. Thank you.
Thank you, Sanna-Mari. I think this is an excellent example of what are Terveystalo's capabilties. Whenever there's a new requirement or even a challenge we are very fast. We are very, very agile. We can tap into our capabilities, and come up with a solution and be it whichever customer group. This is very much in the core of the Terveystalo's first response, fast scaling of service. Then going forward with the Q4 highlights. Ilkka earlier commented this one to be a little bit boring because every customer group is growing and sort of no drama in this one, but that's a good thing. Broad scale of growth across all customer groups, which we can see in detail in the next slide, then new processes and digital solutions. This is very important. I talked about this system layer, sort of, central brain of Terveystalo. We are developing heavily that. At the same time, we are bringing new customer-related solutions, developing our customer interface. Of course, this requires investments, and we are sort of in a phase where we are investing in new Terveystalo quite a bit. And that one will yield results later on. As I said also, for 2019, profitability remained at a strong level and strong cash flow, which is very typical for Terveystalo. And that allows us to propose a dividend of EUR 0.26 per share, which is quite a big increase compared to last year. As said, strong growth, strong organic growth and Attendo together yielded growth in all of our customer segments, a couple of comments from this. Once corporate customers demand remains steady there's certain polarization going on with that market so that there are more sort of a -- more ambitious companies like S Group, which we heard a case example, just a minute ago, who are really investing in this occupational health care from a business case point of view, and really taking ambitious stance. And then, of course, there are companies who are putting a lot of effort on cost only. And so market is going to 2 different directions at the moment. When it comes to private customers presenting the strongest growth in our portfolio, very strong Q4 for private customer growth. When it comes to public segment, obviously, growth due to Attendo deal. But looking forward, maybe I will comment that one later. But I think public sector is also sort of wakening up after waiting for a long, long time for a sort of renewal. Profitability. Q4, as said, strong adjusted EBITDA, which is our core KPI financially EUR 31.9 million and adjusted EBITDA percentage 11.9%, slightly down from Q4 2018 due to Attendo and then sales mix changes and also our investments in the areas that I just described. I said due to our strong cash flow position, we are in a place where we can propose dividend to be higher than historically for Terveystalo. Market outlook, a couple of words around that one. As I said, corporate customers we are seeing as a steady market segment, polarization going on. Private customers, we are seeing growth, and we are seeing us gaining market share in that segment, which is really important, and market is changing. But throughout the Terveystalo history, basically, we have been seeing a phenomena where Terveystalo -- when Terveystalo has grown, Terveystalo has also been able to gain more than its fair share of the market. So that should continue also going forward. And as said earlier, public segment, there are, let's say, public sector is sort of weakening up. There's a lot of needs for our services, even though the system view from government side is still not clear, but there's no way I think that the public sector could go on without increasing the services bought from private actors like Terveystalo. And now over to Ilkka with details.
Good morning on my behalf as well. And like usually, then we will take a closer look on the financial and some operational KPIs as well. Starting from the annual sort of operational and corporate responsibility related KPIs. On the left-hand side, you can see some of the KPIs related to operations and on -- from the middle to the right-hand side, you can see some corporate responsibility numbers, which, of course, are also important part of the economic development of the Terveystalo as well. From the operational numbers, you we -- you can see that we have -- talking a lot about the scale and the scalability of the sort of fee-for-service type of health care business, where we are operating in. Here, you can see that number of the units has increased at 10.7%. And even though that the number of the customers has remained rather stable, the number to visits and the visits to physician, like Ville already mentioned, has increased quite considerably compared to the market numbers. And therefore, we believe that we have been able to gain share also in 2019. And as a reminder, these numbers are sort of related to our existing as far of the health care center network, which excludes outsourcing, stuffing, massage therapies, dental business, et cetera, et cetera. So there's no way to make concrete conclusions on prices. But for the number of the visits development, you can see here. Second highlight on this that I would like to raise is the sickness absence, which has -- it has continued to decline. It's now 3.7%, which is obviously in a sort of the employee incentive business like ours is very important. The next one to highlight is the CO2 footprint. At least in the Finnish context, we are the first one to able to report that as well. And hopefully, that will encourage both private companies and public healthcare sector as well to report that. And hopefully, we will have a fierce competition with out to healthcare players to able to decline that number. As you can see, the biggest proportion, in our case, from the CO2 footprint comes from the electricity and that will decrease considerably during this year because we have changed our electricity portfolio to green electricity. From the economic perspective, the tax footprint has increased considerably as the sort of the deferred tax losses have been used. And now we are in tax paying position. And obviously, of course, because the result has increased as well and the number of the employees, which also relates to the fact that we are even in Finnish terms, quite big payer of the salaries and fees to the employees. Then on the quarterly development profitability-wise, like Ville already mentioned, the good profitability development continued also in Q4. So that the EBITDA margin was at 11.8% versus 13.7% last year. The number of the working days is the same. But obviously, the Attendo was not included in during that time. And the -- like mentioned already during the Q3 result, a meeting that we had that the comparison period to Q4 in 2018 was really good, and that's why we had a tough comparison period. But also, like Ville said, we are investing heavily now in our IT and digitalization and other sort of the central overheads, which will have impact on the cost structure as well, which is sort of investing for the future. And also one other thing to -- worth of mention is that the sales mix develops continuously in the direction that, as we have said that when wellbeing services increases and the preventive services increase, and also this quarter, the sort of the doctor appointment increase, it means that the appointment-driven business is increasing, relatively speaking, to labs, imaging and surgeries, which have impact on the overall margin development as well going forward. On the next slide, you can see the operating leverage like before. Even though that the comparison period is a bit difficult to sort of compare it because Attendo's numbers are not included in there, you can see that if taking those more cleaner line items like our operating expenses or materials and the services. Those have increased less than the top line, which further sort of collaborates that the fact that the fee-for-service type of businesses is a scaling one, and that same trend will also continue in the future, although this year has been a bit more difficult to compare with the last year.On the balance sheet side, probably one thing to highlight here is that we updated our financial target related to leverage ratio that was purely based on technical update based on the IFRS 16. The previous one was 3x EBITDA leverage ratio. Now the updated financial target is 3.5x, including those rental liabilities. And as you can see, in addition to the fact that we were able to achieve our growth target, we are also -- growth target and our dividend target, we are also below our financial target when it comes to the leverage ratio, which gives us, of course, room to run over and invest in the future opportunities. Development of the leverage ratio, you can see on this slide, continuously declining, obviously, because of the strong cash flow that we have been able to kind of generate and increasing result. Also, as mentioned before, one of the -- sort of the important KPIs related to sort of the operational efficiencies also net working capital development in this business and as you can see, that also has remained rather stable. And like before, the same trend further has continued when it comes to the investments. Like I mentioned many times, the intangible is investments which relates to IT and IT infrastructure and digitalization has continuously increased and increased LTM number now up to EUR 18 million. Although the rest of the sort of the investments, even though that we have grown quite considerably compared to 2018, Q2 has remained rather stable. So the investments, which is growing is the intangible investments, not so heavily on machinery and neither in premises, as you can see from the longer-term as well. Finally, a few words on the targets for this year. We -- like mentioned, we have renewed our financing package, with the sustainability linked financing. There's 3 target -- 3 KPIs which we are targeting at, and then the numbers and the target levels you can see here. So one of is the Net Promoter Score, NPS and ENPS, which relates to employee sort of satisfaction, and then there is a mix-based which is one of the most important sort of the environmental KPIs for the health care. And if we are able to achieve those targets, obviously, then our interest expenses will further decline during this year and the following. Finally, some information regarding the financial reporting and upcoming IR events. And then I think that we have time for the Q&A.
Thank you, Ilkka and Ville. Do we have any questions from the phone lines?
[Operator Instructions] And we have our first question from Mr. Panu Laitinmki from Danske Bank.
I have 3 questions. First one is on price pressure in occupational health care that you mentioned in the report, can you comment that the magnitude of this. How much are prices down? How large part of your business is impacted by this? And what has changed in the market after Q3? What is driving this?
Should we take all those 3 or that could take one by one?
But -- well, it's the same topic, but 3 questions.
Okay. So regarding the pricing, we will see the magnitude of that in the future. But like Ville mentioned, that there's a sort of the -- it's going to 2 directions, actually. So one is that there is a companies that are more price sensitive and then there are more and more companies, like we have said many times that are investing heavily on well-being and preventive services. So in that sense, that the net result of that can already be seen in the result and will further be seen in the future result, but the magnitude of those 2 different sort of developments is quite difficult to say at the moment. But I don't want to overdramatize it. In occupational health care, it's good to remember that sort of the turn within the occupational health care customers is clearly less than 10%, closer to 5%. And therefore, the impact is -- it's not that dramatic, it's not that fast. It's a more of a -- sort of the trend. So that the corporates are buying a different kind of sort of service levels.
Yes. And I'd add that this is -- from our point of view, this is more adjusting to new underlying customer needs. So basically, it's natural that basic services for -- in any business, basic services, there will be price pressure. But luckily, also in this business, there are -- there's a vast need for additional services and new service concepts as we, for example, had heard from S Group. And it's our internal sort of job and challenge to adjust to new and changing customer needs.
And price competition in occupational health care has obviously always been tight. And of course, that's why we need that scale and meet that growth that we are able to sort of improve our cost efficiency as well.
My second question was on the digitalization investments. How much do you expect your cost level overall to increase in 2020 compared to last year?
The rule of thumb -- the overall rule of thumb is typically for the IT investments is that EUR 1 invested comes with EUR 0.20 OpEx costs during the next year. So that's the sort of the general rule of thumb that if you have a software reinvestment of EUR 1 million, you will have a sort of -- some sort of maintenance or other sort of expenses of EUR 200,000 following on that investment. So that's how it typically goes and develops over time..
My final question is on the public sector segment. What is the combined revenue of the outsourcing contracts that have ended at the beginning of this year? And what do you expect to end later?
We haven't published the exact number, but it's dozens of millions, but it should be noted that those contracts will continue on a lower level. So even though that those lots of outsourcing contracts in will end. We will continue providing services, the same customers in a sort of smaller scope. So the net impact for the profitability is not that high as the top-line development.
And maybe coming back to my earlier comment on the activity in this segment, so the -- so scale of sort of deals that are out there right now, excluding this one, behold who could be it, whatever it's in English, there's 1 outsourcing deal contemplated in the marketplace. But other than that, they are small in scale, but the number of needs and requests and questions from public customers there it's increasing. So activities is increasing.
Do we have further questions from phone lines?
So we have another question from Alex Gibson from Morgan Stanley.
I have 2. Please, can you talk about the changes of the Kela reimbursement in the corporate customer segment, I realized there's incentive to provide more preventative care, but with lower reimbursement available for general medical care, do you expect to see that driving negative mix and margins? And then I have 1 more question, which is a bit more high level. This is about the investments in technologies that you've made over the years. It's clearly been very successful, but it seems there's an acceleration and a step-up in the industry. Would you agree that the cost of customer acquisition is going up? And where is that incremental spend going exactly?
If I take the first one first.
Yes.Kela...
Related to Kela reimbursement. The change is other way that without going into the details of the numbers, that they will provide more reimbursement for the preventive services, before they had a capped amount, both for the sickness care and preventive. And now it steers sort of a more reimbursement for the preventive services. And our conclusion on that is that at -- that for the small enterprises, it will not have any impact because they are not -- they don't have a sort of the new small enterprises they don't have an HR sort of function existing. And therefore, most likely, will not have a greater impact on those. For the large corporates, we believe that it will also not have a major impact because the sort of the maximum cap amount will most likely be fulfilled anyway. But for the medium-sized corporates, which already have some sort of HR functions and which are able to steer their sort of needs and demand, there, it would most likely have a positive -- a slight positive impact on the demand of the preventive services. And therefore, overall, I would say that there is no dramatic impact on that either, but slightly increasing impact for the further ongoing trend, which is that increase in preventive and wellbeing services, and that will sort of further enhance that development. For the sickness care, I don't believe that it will have any negative impact either because when people are sick, they are sick and they need some sort of medical help or a system for that. And that's why I believe that it will not have a dramatic impact on that.And the next one was related to IT...
Cost of IT. Sorry, I missed the last part of the question. So it was related to cost of IT and development going forward. .
Yes, sure. So it's more about the cost of customer acquisition, effectively having to have a better and better IT system to actually gain that customer over your competition or being able to treat that customer. And then related to the IT investments that you are making now. Where is the incremental spend going exactly? Is it just reinforcing what you have? Is it the cybersecurity elements that you had in the quarter? Just understanding where you're putting the IT investment?
Where the money goes -- money -- first of all, to start with where the money goes, money goes, I think -- again -- in all areas, basically, we are renewed -- in a --during the last quarter, we renewed our system for the occupational health care nurses. We have renewed our bookkeeping systems, our back-office systems, et cetera, et cetera. So it goes both for the sort of the infrastructure and renewing of that, but also a lot of money goes also for the digital development, be it in mobile app and mobile development, be it remote services, et cetera, et cetera or services for our health care professional. So it's a sort of, I would say, wide scope of different kind of development activities, which relates to IT.
Yes, I could comment further on that one. So as I said earlier, and as Ilkka said also, we are working on different areas of our IT sort of integrating our systems, integrating our network, integrating our service flows and customer flows, in a way, is one part, then putting new services and, for example, apps, to our customer front line, obviously, is another. And assessing Terveystalo place and our capabilities in this scheme, I would say, that we are ahead of the market, especially when it comes to sort of holistic view and connecting the notes between different services. It's quite easy to come up with very narrow scope and a narrow service, for example, a -- an app for a service, but really connecting the system network that we have today, requires skills, requires investment, and we are, I would say, ahead of market in that area.
And one more comment further to elaborate on that, that the reasoning why we are also renewing our infrastructure can be seen on this slide. If you think about it that way, that our scale has doubled since 2015. And obviously, all the sort of the IT infra has not been renewed since that, obviously, as you scale, as you grow, you have to sort of upgrade overall, all the systems that are -- that you are operating within, and that sort of comes with growth as well.
And enables scope.
Sorry, I was just going to say, and stepping back and taking all of the elements, do you think this next year, you will see margins -- margin expansion? Or will the costs of the investments where margins next year? And you may see a step back before the efficiencies come through?
As you know, we don't sort of provide margin forecast for the following year, we only have mentioned that we believe that for the corporate customer, the good sort of positive development trends further continues, and for the private customers through strong demand is there and will further continues. Then on the cost structure, obviously, these elements will have an impact on those as well, but like we have said, our midterm target is still the same that it has been before, and that's where we are targeting at least.
We have no further questions from the phone. Sorry.
Thanks. I think we have questions from the room. Sami, may go ahead. .
Sami Sarkamies, Nordea Markets. I have 3 questions. Firstly, starting from Q4 margin development, I think we already discussed the impact from IT investments. But can you still elaborate on the sales mix change relative to earlier quarters?
Yes. So basically, what happens if you would exclude the Attendo's piece and the public piece, if in overall, the development is such that the appointment-driven business, be it physician appointment or the other sort of health care professional, be it a nurse, be it a psychotherapist, nutritionist, et cetera, et cetera. When that sort of volume is increasing faster than the relative volume of the surgeries or diagnostics, it will have an impact on the margin as well because the appointment-driven business typically in our business includes that private practitioner fee and that's what -- that's why it has a sort of lower-margin level than in other sort of care return pieces. And that trend has continued already and like certain -- like mentioned before, we expect it to further continue and will, therefore, have a further impact on -- when we go forward as well.
Okay. And then my second question would be about organic growth. I think you discussed this related to group level and also for the public segment, can you share some light into organic development within private and corporate segments?
So overall, if you take a look at the numbers, we said that we have -- for the full year numbers, we exceeded the financial target 6% to 8%, and it was slightly below 10%. So there is a quite narrow sort of spectrum between 8% and 8% and 10% those are for the full year. For the Q4, like we know the -- the here is the public organic growth which is at 11.5%. For the corporate segment, that 5.8% is the bit -- it's almost organic. It's the below last decimal, the impact of the Attendo acquisition. So that is organic. And the impact of the private business, the acquisition impact for the private business in Q4 from the dental piece of the Attendo was 9%. So if you would exclude those, you will get sort of the rough numbers for the Q4 as well, which is then, again, slightly below that, that was somewhat below that 10%.
Okay. Very helpful. And then final question. You've been in the press recently regarding this information security incident, can you tell us what happened? And what are the sort of recovery actions you're taking to solve the issue?
Okay. So we had an incident -- time goes so fast, I think it was around 1 week ago or so, where it surfaced that one of -- bad actor that been phishing some individual details of our customers, not medical details, but basically, last parts of -- last 4 digits of social security number, that was the target. And it was from our booking system, which has now sort of funnel to medical data. So we were dealing only with personal identification data. And we, of course, had that information, analyze that one a put a strong response in a place. And now we, as the only private operator in this industry are applying strong electronic identification for our bookings as well. I think it's a -- it was -- for me, sort of, of course, not very welcome incident as such, but a good demonstration of organization's capability to really first come up with solutions. And also, as I mentioned before, of the value-based people are taking this one really to their heart and taking this one really, really seriously.
Yes. Iiris Theman from Carnegie. Just one question. The government is planning to cut Kela reimbursements for private health care. What is your view on this? And what kind of sales impact could you expect?
Well, we have been, of course, discussing this, analyzing this one, it's going to be -- the impact from our point of view, out from our assessment is going to be very mild, if anything. We are talking about a 50 -- if we are talking about private sector, the changes, as we understand them, if they would fully go through would represent 2% pricing increase for private customers and taking into account the sort of price elasticity of 2% when you actually don't even touch the face value of your pricing. And basically no real alternative, it's going to be in our view at max very, very mild.
Thanks. Then we have one question from the webcast. What is the total value of lease liabilities under the IFRS 16? And how much real estate do you have on the balance sheet as freehold?
The real estate liability is that EUR 178.7 million, and practically speaking, we don't own any real estates. There's only some really minor real estates that we own in some smaller municipalities in Finland. But practically speaking, we don't own. We operate in rental facilities and the impact can't be seen here.
Do we have any further questions either through the phone lines or from the room?
No. We have no further questions from the phone line. [Operator Instructions] So it seems that we have no further questions.
Thank you. If we have no further questions, then we thank you for your time.
Thank you.
Thanks a lot.