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Hello, and welcome on board on Harvia's Q3 numbers. My name is Tapio Pajuharju. I am the CEO. And next to me, we have Ari Vesterinen, our CFO. And I think I will share the latest and greatest of the first 9 months of Harvia. And then I will share some of the ongoing actions and activities within the group. So welcome aboard. So all in all, very happy and proud to say that we had a strong growth and excellent profitability for the first 9 months and that continued on the Q3. Top line growing extremely nicely and on top of that, we were enjoying a very good profitability. In all of the markets and in all of the categories, and I think this is fairly rare, but we've been now experiencing this for some time. I think that's driven by the popularity of the sauna and especially the health benefits of the sauna.At the same token, I think we confirm that north of the [ Alpine ] region, there is some advanced demand of the marketplace and that seems to be going forward. What makes me extremely happy is that I think on the supply chain, this has been far from being normal, maybe not a perfect storm, but not far away from that. And the whole Harvia team has done an excellent job in keeping us up-to-date, keeping the customers happy and on delivering the numbers we've seen today. Great work, and I would like to pass my humble thanks for everyone on board and not only limited to the Harvia core team but also to our suppliers and to our customers in that respect. So warm thank you for everyone.Then as you remember, we've been starting a fairly active investment plan, and that's going forward with almost no hiccups, and we have [ partly ] planned in all of the units. In Finland, we just got the keys last Monday for the new building, and we are going through the installations. You may remember that we will bring all the laser and punching Combi machines in line in the new premises and do a bit of a streamlined layout for the whole factory. So that's at par with the plan. And then we made a minor change in the game plan. And one of the old machinery, which was about to be transferred to the new premises, we decided to sell that on the second-hand marketplace and bought the new one instead. And that's also coming into game during the month of December. So that's where we are with this one.In U.S.A., as we speak, we are just installing the industrial removal system. Fire protection has been increased and the layout has been prepared. By end of the month, we should be in action in the new premises and transferring all the machinery and all the know-how and capabilities into the Lewisburg new factory of the future. Then during the journey, we also made some new decisions to increase the early part of the production capacity at the Driedorf factory in Germany, acquiring a new Combilaser machine over there. Installation is still happening before end of this year. And in the Romania sauna factory, which we've been expanding during the journey and especially ready by the end of the summer, we made a decision to do an incremental premise of close to 1,000 square meters for sauna production in the Romanian facility and that's ongoing. We'll not be ready before the year-end, but we'll be ready towards January, February in that respect.Kirami, we acquired an extremely well-oiled machine where they were having a bit of a luck with warehousing capacity. Now as of last month, we've been expanding the warehousing capacity by double. And now the incoming and outgoing goods are going through different channels, and we are fully prepared and can increase our operational capacity at the Kirami facility, Sauna-Eurox as well.On the integration plan, I'm very happy on the onboarding of the Kirami team, excellent professional team players over there, both on the commercial as well as on the operational side. Supply chain doing good work with our supply chain and with an excellent spirit. So that's good. Sauna-Eurox team, now we have access to the sustainable, safe and long-lasting sauna heater stones. Believe it or not, that has been an issue in the past years. And as Harvia, we have the primary access to this type of rare resources and we have not gone through the official data of other sauna stone manufacturers but our analysis tells that this is one of the biggest ones, if not the biggest in the industry, and we have ambition to grow together and add value to the whole industry in the sauna stones.Team EOS has been performing extremely well, especially in the DACH region, but also in the other European markets and the team has done an amazing work. And I think that's coming through the numbers, and we'll in short have a look on that. And then what was not on the bullet points, but having said the [ industry ] performance, have to say exactly the same on Team Sentiotec in the Central Europe and also in the Southern European market, they've done a good job in the last 3 months and the whole this year.Numbers, I think, very happy on the revenue growth, 65% and the organic growth is good, 42% and slightly beating the organic growth of the same quarter last year. So good progress in that respect. Profitability, even more than double of the prior year, same period, good work on that one. And I think altogether, good direction on the profitability and a clear improvement on the prior year quarter 3. Having said that, some of you may be reading that it's slightly less on the relative profitability than in the Q2. And I think we've been experiencing quite a big increase in some of the key raw materials. We've been addressing them, but there is some delay in the addressing of the prices, and that will come through in the months to come. So in that respect, we are in a good place.Earnings per share, EUR 0.44, good and cash flow, solid good. But I think it's good to remember that we've been increasing intentionally, our buffer stocks of the key raw materials and componentry. And I would say maybe roughly half of that is organic and then half is due to the acquisitions of Sauna-Eurox and Kirami. So those are all in the game. And then we've been paying out all the CapEx out of our pocket. So that's impacting our cash flow. And I think Ari is more than happy to give you a more detailed look on on this one.Then for the first 9 months, the same pattern, good growth, good profitability, operational profitability, a very healthy, almost 27% earnings per share, EUR 1.37 and cash flow EUR 16.6 million in that respect. Net debt, quite constant static. And then what gearing is now -- leverage is 0.8. So we are off the mark on our long-term targets in that respect. And equity ratio healthy 41.4%. So very happy on the first 9 months.Then what we've been doing, I think we've been keeping eye on the ball despite of the challenges in the supply chain. And we've been focused on that increasing the value of the average purchase, and having a look on the split of our sales. I'm very happy to say that the premium and also the more professional models of the heaters and components we have been selling well. Professional channel, which was almost closed during the pandemic is now gradually opening. That's mainly applicable for the southern part of Europe, partially for the Arabian countries, and now initially also for some of the key Asian markets, not all, but some of the markets are opening, and that's good for our professional part of the business.Sales of the complete sauna rooms have been performing extremely well as well as our stillwater hot tubs. On the shower rooms, we've been facing the limit on the available capacity, and that has been causing long lead times and we've been able to ramp up the capacity. But having said that, the lead times are still rather long and we've been not able to shorten the lead time. So the order book is rather strong on the sauna rooms. Sauna heater stones offering, and I think I'd say traditional Harvia. we've been mainly focusing on the good value for money, high-quality stones, but now we have access to the more added value products, including the heat treat -- the professional heater stones, decorative white stones and round stones and all of the different grades sauna that we can offer. So I think we will boost that market. And this, we will continue doing business with our partners and also with other people in the sauna industry.On the geography, we've been performing extremely well on all of the markets. And I think, like I said, Southern and some of the selective Asian markets are back in business, and they are getting closer to normal, not the normal, but closer to normal in that respect. And some of you who have been following what we've been doing on the Asian market, we've been very happy and proud to announce that we made a deal with the team, Bergman and started -- and Harvia usually doesn't do exclusive distributor partnerships but in Japan with Mr. Seiji Kasama-san, Bergman, we made a deal and started opening showrooms and now we have opened 3 of those. And going forward, I think next year we'll open roughly 10, 15 more. And then for the 3 years to come, the intention is to make sauna available for everyone and everybody in Japan together with the Bergman, will go up to 50 showrooms throughout the Japanese marketplace.Then on the hindsight, we are not late, but they've been passed 3 times now forward with the U.S. approvals of the EOS products over there. It's not because of the process. It's not because of our capability or capacity. It's because of change of the electronic components and every time you change the components, you go back to square one and start the process again. But still, we feel confident that by year-end, we should be back in business in the U.S. marketplace.Then I said on the investments, we've been doing more of those than we've been doing in the past. Happy to say that we are at par with the plan. We are also at budget with those ones. And I think the Romania expansion and the Kirami expansion they are well ahead. I think Kirami is already done. It was a rather quick process and the new warehouse is already erected over there. And the EOS, we were just visiting the factory some time ago. They've been preparing for the installation, and then towards the year-end, the new machinery will be in place and in production. So good progress on the productivity and investment front as well.Pandemic, I think we are not out of the pandemic as of yet. And those who follow the global marketplace can tell that, okay, we have lockdowns here and there, and then they come and go. I think we'll be learning how to live on that one. But in general, I think the awareness of the sauna and popularity of the sauna has been on the rise. The health benefits, especially in the U.S. and partially the European marketplace are clearly better known by the normal consumers and the underlying demand remains solid.On the same goal, I think we are not away from the advanced demand. We still feel that the long-term growth rate for the years to come, maybe 2 to 3 years, will be at roughly the historical performance of the sauna spa market and maybe even double or higher than the 5% average in the past. And our ambition is to gain market share on the marketplace. We have not been, I would say, immune to the pandemic. We have had cases, but the cases have not caused any hiccups or major issues for any of our supply chain on the facilities or factories and people and all of the people have been returning to the office and factories healthy and in good shape.Supply chain, I think you have been educated by many companies, what is happening. The same is we are facing with the same. With our excellent supply team and with our long-term partners, we've been selling rather safe on this one. On the other hand, we've not been aiming to the price increases and inflation we've been facing those both on the raw materials, key component and the logistics. But together with a good cooperation with our partners, with our customers, we've been passing this and addressing this going forward. We have no crystal ball, but what we see, we feel that roughly the same will continue at least for the first half of next year as well. So this is not over, and we've been learning how to swim in this type of waters. Going forward, I think we will still continue doing extra protection, playing extra safe in all of the facilities and also with our interaction with our partners and our customers. And I think that's becoming a new normal in everyone's day-to-day life.Then having a look on the splits. And I think this is the Q3 numbers. Finland still a strong share, but I think the relative share is going down because we've been experiencing extremely good growth on the other European markets and then especially in the German market, and we have a bit of a internal joking and bets that when Germany will pass Finland and the Finnish team has [ never ] and the German team is very confident one day it will happen. And I think jury is out then we'll see how that's going to go. The U.S. market, still a very good, good share and good growth, but we'll come back on that in a second.And then having a look on the product groups, heater business still roughly half of the business, but we've been growing extremely well on the complete sauna rooms, which is now including also the stillwater hot tubs. And I think that's, in a way, a good indication and sign that we've been adding value for the average purchase. When selling a complete sauna room, it's good to remember that if that's an index 100, selling a basic heater would be an index of 10. So that's just 10% of the value of the sauna is the heater. So in that respect, doing a good job. Control units, solid growth on the control units. Steam, I think gradually coming back on the growth. And then the rest is a mixed bag, but most important components on the mixed bag been doing also very good in that respect.Roughly the same picture on the first 9 months. Finland, strong than other European markets, U.S.A. and in Germany. But then paying an attention later when we go through the waterfalls. I think the other markets has been now doing an extremely job going forward. Product groups, heaters roughly the half, sauna rooms and hot tubs and then followed by the control units, steam generators and other products, including spare parts and services is roughly 15% of the complete business. I would say no major news on this one, roughly following the plan we've been setting for ourselves and doing a good job in that respect.Then having a look on the top line and having a waterfall on the first -- third quarter of this year. Finland, I think, with the growth of 41%. I think it's evident that we've been gaining share. The same in Scandinavia, and I think that's good to remember that that's an area where we are not the leading player in the sauna spa market. We've been now catching up for, I think, quite many quarters. And on this one, we were catching up very well. So I think we are getting closer and closer to the #1 position. We are the podium. We are on the silver middle position, but we are not happy with that. So we'll go for the #1 position as fast as we can.Germany, a very solid growth in all of the brands, Harvia, especially EOS and Sentiotec doing good job on that one. Other European market is roughly the same. I'm happy to say that all of the 3 heater brand is doing good, and then our sauna business doing very solid game over there. Russia, it's been a volatile journey and I think in the Russian market, never a dull moment but in the stormy water and in a market which has been impacted by the pandemic a lot, in the electric heaters and the steam generator and the componentry team Harvia in Russia has done a very, very good job.And even with these numbers, we've been gaining share also over there. North America, I think the summer period, in general, is a bit slower for the sauna business. And then as we've been preparing for the transition to the new factory, we've been clearly reducing the number of campaigns and the activities on the marketplace. But going forward, I anticipate to see good numbers in this respect as well. And then the other countries, when highlighting some of the Arabian market, some of the Asia markets, a good job over there and altogether a healthy growth.Having the first 9 months picture is roughly the same, and I will not go in details in that respect, and will state what I basically said on the Q3 numbers. Then by the product categories, sauna heaters, which has been our stronghold. We've been doing a good job on the sauna heaters and gaining clearly share. On the sauna rooms and hot tubs and excellent work and a good performance over there.Control units, I think we've been keeping in mind what type of challenges and problems we've been having with the availability of the electronics and good work on the team EOS, team Sentiotec and Harvia a good, good job. Steam generators, even though the growth is maybe small in absolute numbers, in relative terms, 50% growth in residential marketplace and the team is good. And we continue going forward on this one. And now having EOS on board, we also have good ammunition for the professional marketplace with EOS steam generators. And the others developing favorably as well.First 9 months, roughly the same picture. And I think I know someone may ask where are you hiding the infrared, infrared and the others. That's an area where we still are working on -- we are not very happy with our performance on the infrared. And I think our plans will deliver, but they will deliver later in that category.And then having a look on the quarterly split of the revenue, the historical trend is sauna first and fourth is the strongest one. I think there is no major change in that respect. And then on the profitability, roughly the same prevails on the profitability.Maybe just to recap on what we are doing on the traditional Scandinavian type of sauna, Harvia is playing a very strong good game where the results are visible. In this team, we are gaining speed and share in the residential market but on the professional, we are not where we would like to be. In the infrared sauna market, yes, we've been making inroads in the infrared in the U.S. with our upgraded offering. And then we've been opening doors for the hybrid where you have both the Scandinavian sauna with the infrared capabilities. But then in the pure infrared markets, we are not where we would like to be, and we will continue finding our ways how to perform on the infrared as well.And then we'll stay loyal to our 3 strategic pillars for the growth in top line and profitability, so increasing the value of the average purchase, gradually increasing our geographic and market by market gaining share. It's good to remember when opening a new market, generally, they tend to be small in the beginning, but then they start the snowball effect and the 10,000 will become 50,000 will become 100,000 will become EUR0.5 million in the coming years. And then on the productivity and capabilities continue our improvement over there.Then maybe just a couple of words on the new family members, Kirami, doing a good job on the stillwater hot tubs. And I think now we're learning more about their dynamics and capabilities, they've been also been able to sell the accessories and related to the stillwater hot tubs. And I think that's something we can maybe learn in the other Harvia markets as well. And then it's intentionally in the picture that there is not only a hot tub, over there is a sauna as well, and Kirami has made a very good inroad into the ready-made saunas where you can basically lift them on a truck and lift them with a crane on your backyard, and that's in a way complementing our backyard paradise and the FinVision offering of the Kirami has proven to be, I would say, traveling well in the European marketplace and maybe has some mileage elsewhere in the sauna market as well. So we've been honing our plans in that respect.Sauna, I think now we have good access to the sustainable and safe high-quality sauna stones. And together with the sauna Sauna-Eurox team, we can basically tell the important story of the sauna stones for the rest of the world and then especially on the value-added and on the professional marketplace, we can gain speed and actually develop the whole industry together with the Sauna-Eurox team. So it's a good addition to the Harvia family. And then I think I would like to pass the word to Ari, and Ari will share more of an in-depth analysis of the financials. So Ari, please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you. So this quarter 3 has had a really tremendous growth compared to the past. For instance, the organic growth, what we had now 42%, it was about 35 years ago. So the organic growth has actually accelerated if you compare it with the old interim reports. And that happened also with the cumulative figures. So the percentages have been higher and also, of course, then the absolute amount of money since the company is now bigger than a year ago. What has been also typical for this quarter is the much higher, better profitability than what we had, for instance, a year ago.We have been able to pass the increased cost level to the sales prices, and that has been a very satisfactory thing for the finance guys. And the operating free cash flow, it has reduced basically on purpose since we have paid a lot of our investments, EUR 8 million altogether out of our cash resources during this 9 months and also increase the net working capital. The net working capital has increased quite substantially but I have to say that about 1/3 of the increase comes from the new companies. We have acquired also 2 companies during this year. And by the way, the acquisition prices, they have been also paid out of our cash resources.We have got a lot of new colleagues. A year ago, we had less than 600 employees in the group and now 810 altogether. And the return on capital, however you calculate it is improving and is really on a nice level.Here, we can see that the net debt of the group hasn't really increased even if we have been growing, investing in new companies and increasing the net debt. So the cash level was still on a high to almost EUR 21 million level at the end of September. And the leverage, as Tapio already said, is 0.8%. So on a quite low level. And since we don't have a new interest-bearing debt, we have been able to keep also the interest cost -- paid cash interest cost level on the same level as the quarters before. And then the fair valuation of the swaps, they change then the IFRS interest a bit back and forth.And as you have seen, we have had quite big investments during this year, the biggest actually until now in 9 months have been in U.S. and the second biggest in Finland. But in fact, we have been investing in all our production facilities to ensure that we have better capacity and better effectiveness in our production. And the investments in total will be something between EUR 10 million to EUR 11 million in this year. And it's really a record level for Harvia, but it pays out. We have calculated very well these investments with quite short payback period.The shareholder structure changed a little beginning of September. Our biggest domestic shareholder sold its shares. First, they went to some funds, but then quite quickly actually the household to private investors. So biggest increase what we have had now during this year compared to last year in our shareholder structure, that's in the private investors. And the share of the international investors has stayed quite on the same level, 47%, 48%, 49%. And we have got a lot of new investors during this year, and it seems to be so that this trend continues. Thank you for everybody for joining Harvia.And our long-term financial targets, they -- that we target over 5% annual growth, but these are really long term. Currently, we have quicker speed in our sales. So -- and the profitability target is also clearly over 20% adjusted operating profit and leverage between 1.5 to 2.5. Now we are clearly under that. So there is some reserve for investments and potential acquisitions too. And the long-term dividend policy of Harvia is to pay twice a year the dividends and growing dividends. And we paid already for the year 2020, altogether, EUR 0.51 in 2021. And there was also 20 years anniversary dividend of EUR 0.12 included in that -- in April 2021. And the second dividend installment was paid now in October on the 26th of October. So any questions, comments, please feel free.
Now it's a good time to entertain questions and comments. So please go ahead.
[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Manon Coulon from Erasmus Gestion.
I have 3, if I may. First, you said that you were able to pass on price on cost increase. Could you maybe quantify how much average was the cost increase in Q3? And how much of that did you pass actually on price?
Would you maybe repeat the latter part of the question? The first one I captured rather well, but the latter part, I did not.
Yes, sorry. So can you quantify the Q3 cost increase on average, how much of this did you pass on price? Did you pass on price the full impact of the cost increase or just some of it and how much?
I think we are not disclosing in detail our price adjustments. But I can say that we've been able to pass it to the full. There is some time lag, and that's what I tried to explain on the -- maybe when comparing Q2 of this year rather safe having no impact on this in our profitability.
Okay. You talked about EUR 10 million to EUR 11 million CapEx this year as a record year. Is it going to go down already in 2022 or maybe later?
I think it will be gradually going down, most likely will not go back on the historical low levels we've been seeing while we're being as a listed company, but will not be on the EUR 10 million. And if we have not made the detailed plans for '22, '23, but what I think one can expect that it's going to be less than '21, clearly less.
Broad question to finish. Your margins are quite higher than above 20% in these 9 months? How are these margins sustainable? Is this...
We don't see any major reason why they would not be sustainable. On the other hand, in the current supply chain dynamics and -- I think we need to stay some on the pulse and be ready to be very agile when -- we've been sailing through this storm very well. And I don't see any reason why not we could go forward with this type of relative profitability numbers. And our ambition is to gradually improve, and I think that's in a way some...
When we have acquired bigger companies in the past, the relative profitability of the acquired companies hasn't been as high as Harvia. So it has taken some time, that we are really improving the profitability all the time.
And then some of the -- even though all of the categories have a healthy profitability, some of the categories are more healthy than the others. So the mix may have an impact on this.
[Operator Instructions] There are no further questions at this time. Please go ahead, speakers.
Okay. Thank you. I have a long list of business and finance-related questions. So let's start with the business questions. So first, about the Bergman's deal in Japan in October. How -- I, at least a couple of questions about that, and you can then tell the story how do you handle it. I think Bergman is the right partner for us. What is the competition situation in Japan? And where are the risks generally speaking, of exclusivity?
So, actually quite many points.
Quite many points, all somehow related to...
Okay. We'll try to entertain all of that and may be even beyond. I think historically, Harvia has been selling into the Japanese market for maybe 20 years, but it's been some of the accessories. And the number on the top line has been between EUR 20,000 to EUR 50,000 and no major plan. We've been searching for a partner who could have a holistic view on the Japanese marketplace. And we've been doing this for some time. And lately, we landed on someone who could educate us on the sauna market, so opportunity and the consumer behavior and how the -- paving the exclusivity for the very first weeks, I have to say that I very seldom have seen such a professional approach, such a dedication and such a drive to develop the Japanese market forward.And I think if you may find time and a Google a bit, you will find some of the TV shots and PR releases from Bergman and Mr. Seiji Kasama knowledge is very rare in any given market, not even in Japan. And that's why we made an exception and made an exclusivity deal with Bergmann and Mr. Kasama, and they also nominated a sauna ambassador and some of you like and admire, his name is Noriaki Kasai. He is no longer a young individual. I think he's 40-plus. He's going for his fifth Olympics and the way how we have been able to do that is he's enjoying sauna. Sauna has made him, and in that respect, I think we are on a good, good journey together. We are not disclosing details of the exclusivity but instead of tens of thousands, we are starting with hundreds of thousands, and then going for millions figure, but understanding that the Japanese market is new to us.And even though Bergman is intimately familiar with this one, it's a learning process, and I will take a humble approach on the learning in the Japanese market. Then on the risks [ system ] and the other risks of the Japanese markets are different than in other parts of the world. And they -- when installing anything within electrical equipment, the third round. So there's a special mechanism how to address that. And then on the other hand, even though we deliver extremely good quality, the Japanese quality standards are beyond that. And I think we need to pay extra attention to aesthetically and technically and in that respect. It's also teaching us to do better elsewhere. And I like that a lot. Competition arena, there are a couple of European competitors in the marketplace, on the equipment and then the Japanese way of bathing is asking a bit of a different type of equipment. We mainly focus on the Scandinavian style sauna for the Japanese consumers, and that's where we are.
How important for Harvia is building a brand relationship directly with the consumers, generally speaking.
I think in the past, that has not been a big issue on our market by the professionals. Everyone knows Harvia. When you approach for the wealthy individuals and their projects and their advisers, architects and designers, it's very important that we are gradually building a arena. Harvia has been always very good but when it comes to the softer values, that's where we need to improve the game and get closer in that respect. Currently, we play directly with the consumer with our almost 7 brand in the U.S. especially for the Scandinavian arena. Yes, we are mainly direct-to-consumer, but then elsewhere in the world, it's more through our B2B partners. But I think the importance is increasing, and we are also upgrading our game plan in that game.
Topic, are we collecting consumer data and how do we use it?
That's an area where we are not systematically collecting data of the sauna users, their behavior, their preferences and their visions going forward. But then we are not on the level like one would have seen if you are in the motor boating industry and see the way Yamaha is collecting and how many minutes or hours and what speed, what is the consumption. We are not in that level as of yet but our ambition is to get there, but I think it's not happening with a snap of a finger. It will take time, and I will not be for every equipment it's going to collect the data. Okay.One investor has heard that Harvia has been cold calling people regarding sauna maintenance [ chain stones ], clean sauna, et cetera. Could you elaborate a bit this kind of which was originally SaunaMax, we acquired the majority of the company maybe 3 years ago. Now it's Harvia Sauna Service. And now we've been now testing in the housing care area and then in areas where people have a lot of holiday homes and we are in this type of regions if people would appreciate that need this type of services. And I think on the first initial read of the outcome of this one is that yes, there is. And then the question is how to do it for other brands together. And I think that's under consideration how to do it. And the further away you go from Finland, the higher the need is, and then we've been doing this type of things together with our partners. Then the question is what type of role will not start to do it completely alone anywhere. And I think we will do it together with our partners in most of the markets.
Then a couple of growth-related questions. Has the total sales growth in Germany been organic growth. Acquire EOS in the beginning of May in 2020. So during the 4 first months we have had inorganic growth still this year in Germany. But the EOS business has been growing tremendously well and also our other businesses in German area. So that effect isn't so big.
But like Q3, I think it's mainly organic with the exception of a couple of hot tubs from Kirami for Germany.
Yes, that's right. How much of slowing growth in the U.S. is due to the reduced demand. Can the slowdown be explained by the slowing demand in U.S.
Not -- what we see and what we experience, we don't see that. And on the Q3, I think we eliminated all of the campaigns and built buffer stock for being able to keep customers happy. And the order backlog is normal, if it's not high.
Yes. What are the most important export countries or areas for Kirami at the moment and what will it be in the future?
Kirami is still in the works, but mainly they've been exporting to Scandinavia. U.K., Benelux. Now I think we are figuring out how to operate on the DACH area in general. And I think we will honor and let Kirami team to do their job where they'll be very good at. And then we just try to help and fill in where we can with the Harvia team and what we've been now analyzing is the southern part of Europe, maybe last in the U.S., there is already an existing stillwater hot tub market with a very traditional mainly with the wooden frames and wooden tubs. And I think we can add value on this one and bring durability, easy to use, easy to maintain. And then the winterizing with our type of equipment is clearly easier than with the traditional wood-based hot tub. So I think going forward, at least we are piloting the U.S. market.
What helped actually increase Harvia's sales and popularity in the past other than pandemic, is the comment.
Please have a look at what is happening in the marketplace and see what is happening with the awareness and popularity of the sauna health benefits. And if -- I don't know whether there is a feature in the social media where you can go 2 years back or 3 years back, if there is, please, please check that. I have that in my head. And I can tell that the atmosphere and it's not only helping Harvia, it's helping the whole sauna spa industry. And then on top of that, I think the trends where people are aging, they are gaining weight on the middle-class, upper middle class. And I appreciate also the well-being and their own time and the balance of physical health being -- well being, mental well being. I think we have a concept which will deliver all of that.
Development in the U.S. compared to the previous quarters. We don't give forecast, but some sentiment..
Yes, I think the sentiment is good and continues being good. We are not without competition. The infrared sauna market has been hot, is hot in the U.S. The traditional sauna market where we play is hot. I don't foresee any major changes or rapid changes in that.
Prices of Red Cedar and for our timber wooden materials hiking during the last months, but the prices are already going down at the moment to some extent. This is also happening on other market. What investments levels do you expect for '21 and '22? Okay, '21, we already mentioned, EUR 10 million to EUR 11 million but could we give some forecast already for the next year.
'22, we are still making, will be clearly less but don't know yet how much less.
Okay. There are questions about next year's close on sales and EBIT, but we don't publish them. We are actually in the process of making our budgets. Could you give some plans on what is going to happen when you get permissions to sell EOS products in U.S.? What are your next steps there? And what sort of consumers...
Professional brand and they will not become available for everyone and everybody in the U.S. So we have selected a handful of partners we're going to work with them and direct on the upper luxury first and the professional channel and I think with the anticipation for the EOS U.S. luxury market, you don't launch with a big landslide volume. You do it very almost handpicking the partners, handpicking the cases, building the references, then it gradually starts going forward. And that's exactly what we are going to do in the U.S. And it's not only limited for the U.S., it's also going for the North America and then gradually for the Americas, but starting with the U.S., then Canada, then the...
Cabins or steam saunas in your new U.S. factory. And what are those plans for the other plans for the new factory and plans to grow the infrared or steam business capacity...
We have currently no plans to manufacture infrared nor steam in that facility. Elsewhere in the group, we are manufacturing steam as we speak and piloting some of these teams and regarding -- and currently, there are very few players who make infrared in the U.S. And as we have learned, the almost steam and saunas made in U.S. is a very good argument for the local consumers. Maybe we will one day pile of that, but that's something in the plan as yet. And then in general, in the infrared, yes, we've been studying the infrared market in detail. We have made and if you have time to go to our steam and saunas web page, check what is the current offering on the infrared, and you will see in somewhere. And on top of it, we've been clearly investigating what is happening on the inferred market in general. And on the M&A front, we have a couple of inroads into areas where potentially we could do something. But having said that, it's also evident that the infrared, especially in the U.S., is really booming. -- the volumes are high. The companies are performing and also the price expectations from the companies are maybe beyond our vision of the valuation of that.
Can you share any thoughts for the acquisition? Are you happy with the purchase price?
I think we actually shared it in the detail.
So for Sauna-Eurox, no.
Sauna-Eurox, it was on the announcement and...
Only the annual net sales.
But altogether, it was with an acceptable price for both parties. And I think we are very happy with the outcome of this.
Yes. And it really improves our sauna heaters also, so variety of different kind of stones and more knowledge of the sauna stones, and we can improve also the story of the sauna stone. As you can see from our presentation, there is this black-like sauna heater stones, looks very nice with the new heater.
By the way, that's a good point. It's a black volcanic stone. On that one when you make -- throw water on this stone, it becomes shiny black. And then by the way, the heater in the picture is also something new. That's our legend pillar heater for the compact size, and that's actually coming out later in December, and that was actually announced yesterday that we are coming out of -- with these products.
How do you see the market growth evolution. For Harvia, to what extent more than 5% annual top line growth rate should be adjusted upward given the dynamics of the market and your geographic expansion. Any indication for 2022 on top line evolution or given the longer time lead.
I think I'm starting to sound like a parrot because I'm repeating the same thing and we are in the budgeting process. But I think for the years forward, maybe 1 to 3 years forward, we anticipate that the market growth is higher than the historical of 5%. And then our ambition is to gain share during that marketplace. So on top of that, I think you would need to make your analysis what we are aiming at.
Okay. A question about the aftermarket sales, percentage of aftermarket sales, probably we can tell what is the aftermarket sales for Harvia.
We don't measure that in such a respect. We measure spare parts, we measure accessories, and we measure sauna service sales. But altogether, currently out of my head, I cannot give you an exact figure. It's part of the other 14% but I -- it's not clear in my head to give you an exact number on this.
How well has the average purchase price increased on different product groups during 1 to 2 years.
That's something we don't disclose, but I think you can do the same thing. I don't know whether you can go back in time or not. But if you check what is available in a given retail store, for example, over here in Finland or check the availability and prices of certain products elsewhere and measure that in maybe 2 years ago and then also check the mix of available products. And then I think you would see the difference, and the difference is substantial.
Generally, the M&A opportunities in different areas have been asked in U.S. and in other areas also. So where do you see the next steps?
I think the activity in M&A in general, I think, is on a high good level. The same applies for sauna spa market as well. We have been -- and we remain active on that one. And if a company which could fit into our offering becomes available. And the valuation is on a okay terms, then we definitely have an appetite and we also have the capability of addressing those going forward. So that's remaining on top of the organic growth, one of our top priorities going forward.
Somebody is asking about any plans to expand distribution to Italy and the rest of the Southern Europe. We have been distributing through a couple of companies already.
We have actually in Italy, quite a good distribution for the sauna heaters and equipment. Our distribution in these complete sauna rooms and steam. We are -- and we have been expanding and I don't see any immediate need to do big expansion in Italy. Sauna market in Italy has been on the rise despite of the pandemic and now the professional market is gradually reopening. And I think we are rather happy with the setup we have over there as we speak.
Okay. I don't have any other questions on the list. Do you have any new or on the telco line or...
There is no more questions through the audio.
Okay. Then thank you for your time. Thank you for the attention. And I think we've been rather precise. We have booked 1 hour, and we have 45 seconds to go. So we made it in time as well. So I wish you a good day and all the best. Take care. Thank you.
Bye now.
Bye.