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Harvia Oyj
OMXH:HARVIA

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Harvia Oyj
OMXH:HARVIA
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Earnings Call Transcript

Earnings Call Transcript
2022-Q1

from 0
T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Hello and welcome aboard on Harvia Q1 review. My name is Tapio Pajuharju, I'm the CEO. Next to me, but not next to me, is Ari Vesterinen, our CFO. He's been able to avoid the pandemic for a long time, but finally it catches him and now we have a positive CFO who is recovering under home quarantine. Welcome Ari as well.

So all in all, I think we had a very good quarter and I'm happy to announce that top line growing nicely and actually we had an all-time high quarter. And I think at this stage, I would like to pass my special thanks to the team Harvia and all of the partners who have been working on this with us. The growth was solid in most of the markets and in all product groups so that's nice. But I think we would need to highlight Finland where I think that even Finland succeed extremely well in the presales for the season.

Then in the very complex market area, which is the other markets and other countries, that's where we did extremely well and the team over there both in the Arabian origin countries as well as in Asia have done a good job. Then in the other European markets, mainly in the Southern Hemisphere, a good progress over there. And then we continue very strong in the North America and that's both in the U.S. as well as in the Canada. All product groups growing, but I think it's exceptionally strong in the sauna rooms and I think that's driven by North America and Europe as well as in Asia. Then on the other side of the coin, I think in the entry-level offering especially for the heaters for the web stores in the Central European marketplace, clearly some softness over there. On the other hand, the mid-price point, premium and professional doing normally and good demand on that one.

Then most of you already know that we did suspend beginning of the March all the operations in Russia and I will go deeper in the Russian situation later in the presentation. On the profitability, very good profitability exceeding EUR 1 million the prior year Q1. But then on the relative profitability, most of you who've been longer on board, we've been telling that hey, sauna profitability is not equally good as on the heater and equipment and now we've been growing quite fast on the saunas and modest growth on the heaters so that's been visible on the relative profitability. And on top of that, later on you will see that there was a, I would say, exceptionally strong hike on some of the key raw materials and the ones who listened to our year-end review, then we announced that we're increasing prices on the Q1 but at the end and we increased on the beginning. But these were not fully enough and we need to address and we have addressed that through the fall, but it will come in with a delay.

Then I think not so much visible maybe in the sauna market in general apart from the very entry-level heaters, but then maybe later when we see the totality, something like our Scandinavian still with the hot tubs. Maybe it's not a must that people consider and maybe delay the purchase a bit so that's where we have a bit of uncertainty going forward. In the supply chain, an extremely good solid performance over there and think our team has been able to avoid all the challenges, which are being caused by the very difficult availability and then in certain raw materials no availability. Still we've been doing very, very good. And our customers will be maybe not having the 100% performance in that respect, but we went clearly above 90% and still very good solid performance for the customer service in that respect. During the first quarter no major big investments and CapExes, but a big number of small fill-in investments mainly in machinery, layout, automation.

The Muurame layout transition is still ongoing and we should be finishing that by the mid-summer. U.S.A. layout is there and I think we are planning for the next stage over there. Romania some fill-in and then in China small fill-in investments. Then in Muurame, also in the logistics where we've been adding shelving capacity and then ramping up the new building we bought at the end of December so that's going to be fully in use during the second quarter. Kirami and Sauna-Eurox integration doing good and according to the plan and EOS is continuing very solid good performance in all of the markets. So very happy for their performance as well.

Then jumping into the numbers and I think you've been having already the sneak peek. So solid top line growth exceeding EUR 50 million on the top line and a nice 28.2% growth, of which organic 18%. I think we've been -- let me now think about -- yes, bit of a tailwind due to the currencies mainly from the U.S. dollar, now that helped a bit.

On the profitability, it's roughly EUR 1 million more than the prior year. But then as said on the relative profitability, slightly down mainly due to the change in the mix and then partially because of delay price adjustments coming into play a bit later stage. Earnings per share EUR 0.50. Cash flow good, but a bit hampered by the increasing net working capital, but that's also intentional. Later on I will tell more details why it's so necessary. Net debt where it should be and the equity ratio on the 43.7%. So excellent solid performance for the Q1. Then I think on our strategic path, we're going to stay loyal for the 3 parts we've been chosen. I think on the sauna rooms that's clear and I think the sauna room sales is maybe the ultimate proof of selling the wonderful one-stop offering. That's where we've been good in all of the markets. Premium models and the professional models doing good on the heaters and equipment and then the professional channel is gradually coming back.

But I think like you've been also reading and monitoring what is happening in certain parts of Asia, it's still volatile. Up and down again depending on the COVID situation, but gradually taking a normal stand on that one. And then very happy for the growth in most of the markets especially in the U.S., team has done a good job over there. Same applies for Canada. Finland both in the heaters and equipment as well as on the sauna sales, good performance. Other countries, especially on the Asia, Arabian origin countries and then in the other European market mainly in the Southern Hemisphere, good work over there. Japan even though the numbers are not in multimillion level yet, we are gradually getting into the millions and beyond and as we speak, now we have already 6 showrooms open in Japan. Now they are physical showrooms presenting most of our offering from the entry-level to the premium and the professional and the journey continues.

And as we speak, Mr. Seiji Kasama from Bergman is over here in Finland and most likely in Muurame, maybe listening. So we'll send him best regards as well if he's listening. EOS doing a good job in all of the markets. Entry into Finland and Scandinavia is now ongoing. The U.S. approvals are pending, but as said, during the first half we will have the first selection approved and I think we are not far away from being there. So I'm very optimistic on that one. But we'll keep thumbs up, our fingers crossed that we'll get there faster than expected. On the productivity and capacity expansion all well and CapEx that now we have up to par with the demand. Lewisburg is doing even better than we were planning and they are beating our target levels on the output and productivity and on top of that, we'll be ramping up incremental capacity. We don't have the full second shift on board, but we have a good strong second shift over there and then we have plans to do small fill-in investments on top of that.

And then I think we already captured what we've been doing in the other factories so we'll not repeat too much on that. With the Kirami and Sauna-Eurox, happy with the performance as said. And I think with the Kirami, we bought a Scandinavian still-water hot tub company. As a bonus, we get their FinVision saunas, which we are now as we speak converting also into the Harvia offering, and these saunas are ones you can basically lift on your backyard or front yard or next to the pool and on the same day you can start enjoying sauna bathing. And the cost of something like this is maybe higher than normally people buying a kit, but then you save time. And at the end of the day, the cost when it's fully erected and in your place is not much more than you would have been buying a kit and having people installing it. We've been seeing that there is lot of good traction on these type of solutions and we didn't have that in our portfolio earlier. So we are building on all that.

Then on the Sauna-Eurox, now we have a good access to the safe, sustainable, high quality heater stones. And on top of that, we've been beefing the premium and the professional end of the offering and I think during the rest of the year, we're going to see good breakthroughs on that area. And I think very happy to have both Kirami and Sauna-Eurox in the team. The Russian invasion to Ukraine, I think that has not gone without noticing by everyone and it's been causing a lot of turbulence for sure on the local Ukrainian marketplace, which is now on a standstill. Russia the same and we halted or suspended he business beginning of March over there. It also has some indirect impacts to some of the availability issues and even a very basic raw material like black steel or even more specified cold-rolled steel not available as anyone would like to wish and even the pricing is hiking something which never seen of. We are in a very good solid position with a steady inventory.

And I think until, say, late summer, mid-fall, we are very okay on this respect. And then at the same time, we've been able to address the pricing mechanism on that one. Then on the lumber market, some of the sauna grades even though where they were coming from Finland or Baltics, the actual source was maybe Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, elsewhere and there seems to be clearly a lack of availability and also price hikes for that. We've been finding alternative grades and alternative solutions for that and we are good to go. But I think initially it was causing quite a bit of a hiccup and not for us only, but I think most in the industry. Then I think on the sales in Russia, I think it's good to highlight and flag up that it was roughly slightly shy of EUR 12 million for Harvia in '21 and then it's actually also having an impact on the first quarter even though we had an extremely strong start; January, February amazingly strong and then nothing for the month of March onwards.

So the minus for the first quarter is actually rather modest or almost nonexisting with this 1.2%. As most of you may remember, we don't have our own production facility in Russia. We've been working with 2 local partners who's been helping us with some of the componentry, mainly metal related. All of that we've been in-housing now in Muurame or with our partners in South or not South, it's Southwest part of Finland where we have partners who are helping with that. EOS Russia has been operating over there with 26 people on board. We got prepayments, which we were not able to return. We will continue fulfilling our liabilities and what we promised over there. We continue monitoring extremely closely what is happening over there. We still have some assets and we have customers who have payables to us. They keep on paying according to the schedule and in that respect, it's been okay.

And Ari has been able to repatriate funds from Russia to Harvia accounts in Muurame and in Germany in that respect. So so far, a steady journey and a good plan going forward. On the pandemic, I think Ari catching the disease is maybe the biggest news for the time being, but he is in a good shape and recovering fast. And apart from the rest, it's mainly affecting the business as usual, maybe a bit more sick leaves than normal. The logistics out of Asia, I think this the one which is most impacted. We'll be shipping some of the heaters from our China factory to Europe, to Asia and to U.S. That's halted and delayed and I think that will not ease up in the coming 3 to 4 months, but I think we've been learning how to live with that. On the raw materials, I would say economically price raw materials would be available from the Asia market. But due to the logistics and due to some of the penalty duties, those routes cannot be utilized.

Then on the aggressive price hikes on the key raw materials, we've been addressing those to the full, but there is a slight delay getting them into the game. But once again we addressed the prices in the beginning of the year 1st of April and now the new one is coming on the 1st of July in that respect. And for the air, we've been also using surcharges and couple of other mechanism how to offset the impact and we are catching up quite nicely with this. Then on the revenue by the market and the split. I think the strong performance of Finland is now visible on the domestic share, then the other European markets maintaining the share. Germany is now visible and bit giving up, U.S.A. strong and the rest of the world is roughly the same as it used to be. On the category mix, I think now it's visible not okay. Heaters have been giving some room for the sauna room sales. Now we see a very big increase in the pie chart on the sauna rooms.

Rest is roughly the same, but I'm very happy that the steam generators have been returning back to growth. Then within the others, we have good favorable maybe that's also for the infrared going forward. So in that respect, I think our portfolio is very versatile. I'm very happy for all categories being on a nice plus. Then having a look still in deeper detail market by market and I think the domestic performance solid and actually very strong. We continue gaining market share and I think we are gradually penetrating also to the more premium, more professional than for the institutional commercial like swimming holes, big spas and all of that which we used to be not as strong as we are on the residential and consumer business. Scandinavia even though the actual millions is may be small, the percentage is good and our understanding with this percentage, we continue gaining speed.

Germany even though I think the number is exactly not what we would like to see. Even with this number, we tend to be at par or slightly ahead of the market development and maintaining or even improving our share on the German marketplace. And the not so good performance is mainly on the very entry-level heaters mainly in the web store scheme where we've not been able to grow and no one has been able to grow on that one. And I think that's maybe where the uncertainty of the entry-level consumer is most visible. Other European markets, a healthy growth. Russia I think thanks to very strong January and a good February, that's where we are. Going forward, that's not going to be like this and the impact is roughly what we would expect a slightly shy of EUR 12 million divide that by 4. So we have 3 quarters to go and that minus we have. We have quite a good plan where to catch up, where to beef up our operations.

It's mainly in the Northern American marketplace, some of the Asian markets where we are catching speed and closing the gap, but it will not happen automatically. So it will happen throughout the year. And at the same token, we have a profit projection how to bring back the lost profits from the Russian marketplace and also that is coming into play and we are working on that and have good inroads already into that game. North America extremely solid both on the heaters and equipment as well as on the sauna rooms and it's with all customers, all geographical areas of U.S.A. So in that respect, a solid performance over there. And today by the way, we are roughly at par with our supply and demand. So the Lewisburg factory has been capable of ramping up the capacity so that our lead times have gone down from the 12 weeks to roughly 4 weeks and I think that's very good news for the customers and they're very happy that we can deliver faster.

And the other countries are doing a good job. We have pockets of excellent increases and then we have normal performance, but altogether close to a 100% increase is not bad at all. Then on the sales by product categories, I think everything looks rather good. And I think on the sauna heaters and equipment, everyone would have expected a bit better performance, but that's mainly due to the entry-level heaters being soft in the, I would call, DAC markets or Central European markets especially in Germany that's visible over there. Rest looks very normal and actually good in most of the cases. And then maybe just to have a comparison. So a very nice top line growth on the Q1 and then also on the profitability even though the relative profitability took a bit of a hit. In aggregate numbers, EUR 1 million on top of EUR 11 million good work and then going forward should be rather solid journey on that respect.

Then on our plans, just to remind that all the sauna types so the traditional Scandinavian or Finnish type sauna, steam where we are not as strong as we would like to be and then on top of that, the infrared I think which has been actually growing faster than we anticipated. So we will beef up our game plan on the steam as well as on the infrared and continue the solid performance on the traditional saunas. And I then stay loyal on the 3 paths of profitable growth in our strategy and on top of that, for sure we remain extremely eager and open for the potential M&A and especially in the area of infrared, steam and then maybe in the premium and professional end of the traditional sauna. Those will come in play. We would definitely have appetite that we'd willing to act. So we continue doing that.

And at this stage, I think Ari is looking extremely fresh and good and I think we can jump on the numbers in that respect. So Ari, I will pass the word to you. Welcome.

A
Ari Vesterinen
executive

Okay. Thank you. And you slip -- change the pages for me. The quarter #1 in this year was actually the all-time high quarter ever in the history of Harvia. So we exceeded the net sales of EUR 50 million, which is nice. And as Tapio already told, the relative profitability took a little hit due to the product mix and inflation, but we really strongly believe that we can correct the situation. And if we take the adjusted operating profit what we have had now, it's still historically quite good reminding that for instance in 2020 we had for the whole year about 22.4%. So we have been improving and we will improve our relative profitability circumstances allowing it. The basic earnings per share increased nicely to EUR 0.50 and operating free cash flow of EUR 7 million actually it's less than year ago, but the fact is that we had that in Q4 EUR 3.8 million. So we are actually currently improving our cash flow and even if we have increased still our inventory. I believe that the cash flow will pick up again.

And the one reason for the better cash flow is of course that we needed less money for investments during Q1. We had very strong investment year in 2021, EUR 11.8 million and now we had just some efficiency improvement and add-on investments during Q1 with a value of some EUR 900,000. The investment level during Q4 was still 4x that much. The leverage level 0.8x is still rather low compared to our long-term financial targets. It doesn't include the potential redemption liability of some minority shares or risk payment part of acquisitions. It will be discussed later a little more. And return on capital employed is very good. So that was a strong quarter. Next page, please. Here we have discussed a little more the financial situation. On the left part of the picture, you see that the net debt went already down a little and we just remind that there are some redemption liabilities on the balance sheet of EUR 22 million, which are not included in that net debt. One day they may be included.

So if we would have had that net debt, we would have had a leverage of 1.2x so still a quite low leverage. On the right picture, you see that we have been able to reduce the cash-based interest costs, that's the dotted line. The fact is that we renegotiated our loan agreements end of 2021 and now we see the positive impact on our interest costs. And then in the beginning of 2022, we actually made a new interest swap deal to cover our interest costs against the increasing market interests. So in fact that swap deal increased in value quite much during Q1 since the market interest rates increased quite much during Q1. So that's why currently the IFRS-based interest cost is actually negative or we made profit in the interests because of this derivative papers, which were on a positive -- very positive value. In practice, this means that we are very well covered against the potentially increasing interest rates also for the next 4 or 5 years.

So next page, please. Here we see now the level of CapEx or investments we had during Q1. It was rather low compared to the last year, but actually historically quite normal for Q1. So there were just some additional investments in production machinery in Finland, North America, China and Romania. And we are still investing in expansion of some production facilities and it -- but the level of investments in this year, they will be lower than last year. Next page, please. Here we see the structure of the shareholders. Let's say the foreign part of the shareholders went down a little during Q1. But actually Finnish households increased the share of the ownership in Harvia very nicely during Q1. So we had 31% households -- 31% of the sales in the hands of Finnish households. And actually we had at the end of Q1 almost 44,000 shareholders in the company. The shareholding of the Board of Directors, management and personnel was 5.4%.

On top of that, also Harvia family members who are not in the Board, they are also together a very substantial owner of the company. So we have to say that the management, Board and people close by believe really strongly in the ownership of Harvia shares. Next page, please. The Harvia's long-term financial targets. We believe in growth which is exceeding clearly 5% and the profitability target in adjusted operating profit margin is over 20% and the leverage range what we have set up some time ago is between 1.5x to 2.5x. Currently we are on 0.8x. And Harvia is paying dividends twice a year and the dividend is regularly increasing. Next, please. And speaking about the dividends, we paid already now in April EUR 0.30 to the shareholders and next EUR 0.30 will be paid in October 2022. So the Annual General Meeting approved the full EUR 0.60 to be paid this year.

Next page, please. Now it's time for the questions. We have got quite much questions through the chat, but probably the local organization will read this through.

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Yes. I think we will kick in with the teleconference and I think now we are ready to entertain questions. So let's go ahead. Thank you.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Your first question is from Mika.

M
Mika Karppinen
analyst

This is Mika from Danske Bank. Can you hear me?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Yes, loud and clear, Mika.

M
Mika Karppinen
analyst

So concerning the organic growth rate in Finland, you are not publishing it. I'm trying to calculate that and it seems to sort of in H2 last year those figures were clearly on the negative side, but now you were reaching clearly double-digit figures in Q1. And then we will get talking about the presales activity being at a high level. So do you think that will be a negative effect in your Q2 organic growth rates or how do you see the Finnish market developing? And then you were talking about the input position in the commercial and premium segment in Finland. So is that something that could be potentially compared to any quarter weakness, for example in your lower price point segments? Could you open up that on the Finnish market a bit more?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Good question. And I think the presales is only relevant for the heaters and equipment and we did exactly the same type of a presales year before. But I think we had some learnings on that one and think now we have a portfolio with the fill-in expanding and having a stronger traction on that one. So I think it will be nothing extraordinary and will not be hampering our quarters to come in that respect. Then on the professional projects and our inroad into that, they are baby steps and once you get in that, then you take the next steps. And those -- I think that's going to continue for the months and years to come. But now we are breaking some ground in that respect on areas where our offering was not considered. We have either the Harvia offering available or we have the EOS offering available.

So those will make a permanent impact, but the impact is not like millions in the year. It's say 1 institutional commercial heater is maybe EUR 2,000 to EUR 5,000 and then multiples of that is what we actually win in the professional market. And the projects even if today we get a request and a tender, it may take time before they are finishing. So some of them are for the latter half of the year for sure and some of them are even for the early part of next year. So the time to act is clearly longer than in the residential marketplace where it goes through the do-it-yourself retail stores and the impact you can calculate in weeks or months. This one is a longer journey, but it's a very favorable and good journey. And also when you get into that, it's I think something you can keep for longer term. So I think it's sticky in that respect.

M
Mika Karppinen
analyst

Okay. Then continuing with the Kirami and the hot tubs, I think that the sauna tub was an area that benefitted quite a lot from the pandemic conditions. So how do you see the sort of outlook here for those products going forward?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I think we have not made any formal outlook, but I can maybe comment on the sentiment on the Q1. And we realize that the export market, there is a good traction and good momentum in most of the markets. Same impact in Germany as we've been having on entry-level sauna heaters. And then on the domestic marketplace, I think this is an area also maybe where people consider this is something which is not a must. People are waiting should I do it now or should I do it a bit later? And then maybe also the spring, which is really late and in Helsinki you see no ice on the lake or sea anymore. When you go further away on Latvia and beyond, still snow on the streets and on the ground so people go into the summer cottage. The hot tub is maybe not the first thing they consider. So we'll see how it goes, but I think there is some sensitivity on the hot tubs at least on the first quarter.

M
Mika Karppinen
analyst

Okay. And then the last one concern in the sort of the North American market. Have you been using more sort of sales campaigns in the North American market at the beginning of this year compared to previous year? And then what kind of plans you will have for increased marketing activities or campaigns maybe with sort of your partners?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Comparing Q1 prior year, roughly the same. But compared to Q4 last year when we would have no campaigns at all, I think in that respect there is a change. But quarter against the quarter 1, no major change. Same type of program and I cannot even tell whether it's an inch stronger or inch less. But it's roughly the same.

Operator

There are currently no more questions in queue. [Operator Instructions]

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

So let's wait for a moment and unless we have someone on the line, then I think we can jump into the questions sent in advance.

U
Unknown Executive

We have quite a lot of questions from the audience. We'll start with sourcing and pricing. How much of the raw material inflation will you be able to pass on to prices and in what time frame?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Our aim definitely is to pass everything and I think the time frame is roughly what we described. With most of the customers, we have agreements which are intact. And if I take an average of those agreements when they are between, I would say maximum 3 months impact in that respect.

U
Unknown Executive

Where are the Sauna-Eurox stones sourced from? Are there any supply chain threats in this business?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Sauna-Eurox stones are sourced from the Southwest Coast and they come in conjunction as a site product when people do -- I don't know even the right term, but when you get rocks for the building sites and for the roads. So we are hence selecting what is going to be shipped and then hand selecting at the place where there -- I don't see any major issue with that. We have a very solid sustainable high quality heater stone and access to that. That's something we also offer to our peers and we tend to be good in that. I don't see -- I think the only thing is that some of those are transported with a road transportation from Finland to elsewhere. There is for sure an impact on the logistics on that one, but it's not been any issue on that.

U
Unknown Executive

Okay. Has the shortage of raw materials delayed your shipments to customers and caused backlog in your deliveries?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I think I cannot say that it has not had any impact. Some customers have been receiving goods with a delay. But I think in general, we've been very close to the intended schedule with most of the customers. And maybe -- and then it's only a question about week or 2 where we've been late and I think no major issue in that respect. We've been using alternative componentry, alternative materials and we've not been always shipping what originally in the specification. But we'll always be negotiating with the customers how do we do that and everyone has been happy with that.

U
Unknown Executive

At what level are inventories in the sales channel? How good a visibility do you have there? For example sales in Finland grew strongly, but the Finnish consumers' confidence went down clearly in Q1. So have retail channel inventories gone up?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

In general, we don't have a full transparency. But for the key partners and especially now also announcing today and reviewing the inventories with our, I would say, Top 5 European web stores, that's what we monitor constantly and that's very intimate and immediate pulse you get. On the domestic market, we do that on a daily basis with our sales reps and then we do that in a monthly basis with our partners. And in that respect, we don't see anything extraordinary on the inventories. With the exception of, as said, in the German market with the certain web stores where the entry-level equipment has not been moving on the previous base.

U
Unknown Executive

You commented on the fact that despite the Q1 hit, the margins can be solid going forward. Can we have more details on this? Are your forecasts based on what kind of level of inflation? Can we have an idea of the price increase taken in April and planned for July?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

So April we have already announced. April was announced in the full year '21 report. That was on the magnitude of roughly 5% on the market, can be less, can be more. And then on the one which is coming through, we've been more, I would say, selective. Now we've been not doing as a generic, it's more of a product group by product group and some of them are going up with a double digit, some of them with the same magnitude as in the previous round. And going forward we should be, I would say, rather okay if not good, but providing that the inflation will not take any major hikes going forward. If that would continue, then we would need to continue addressing the pricing again. Unfortunately, that's the status.

U
Unknown Executive

Have increased lumber prices affected sauna room profitability?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

In certain markets has been happening, but it's mainly -- in U.S. the prices have been rather stable. Also for the grades we use in our Romanian sauna factory, they've been clearly more modest than in the Northern Hemisphere and in the Northern Hemisphere, the lumber prices have been really volatile and going up. And that's potentially where we've been not up to the speed with some of the adjustments, but we'll get up to speed.

U
Unknown Executive

What is the risk of not getting enough components, for instance, from China?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

That's an excellent question. And I think the lack of certain components especially in the electronics will continue as it is. With our partners, we've been opening new sourcing channels and some of those come into play. But I think in midterm we are very okay and even in long term if things do go back to normal, we should be okay. On a weekly basis there can be issues, but on a monthly basis they're going to be sorted out. So I don't see any major issue. But I think the China logistics is something we need to pay attention and everyone has been paying attention. That's one. The logistical cost has not been going down as expected and we've been also transferring some of the volumes from the China factory back to Europe in that respect. So that's what we've been doing.

U
Unknown Executive

Then something about revenue and profitability. How big portion of your revenue is replacement of old equipment? How long does it usually take, for example, until heaters are replaced?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I will try to remember out of my head. On the heater and equipment, we say that roughly 75% of the business is replacement and the average ASP for heater depends and I cannot say one number. If you would have a small fitness club where you put it on 7 o'clock in the morning, you switch it off 10 o'clock in the evening; you are lucky if you survive 4 to 5 years with the equipment with no repair or no spare parts. On the family home, you take good care of the equipment, you can run it to 12 to 15 years. And I think in average we say that the electric heater is roughly, say, 10 to 12 years and then a wood-burning heater is maybe 6 to 7 years depending on the condition where you keep it during the winter. And on the sauna rooms, we estimate that roughly 60% of the business is replacement and 40% is new build.

U
Unknown Executive

What is the reason why other products and services category made all-time best sales figures and has been developing so well?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

That's where we are hiding a lot. So that's where we have for example the infrared, we've been doing a bit of a pilot on the infrared and then also on the steam room. So we have these spa modules in Tartu, Estonia where we do spa rooms. And as we see on the other countries, on the Arabian markets always when you sell a project, it's going in with a traditional sauna together with a steam room and the steam rooms are in that category.

U
Unknown Executive

Which one is more profitable categories, sauna heaters or sauna rooms?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Sauna heaters are still clearly more profitable. The delta between those 2 have been going down quite a bit. But still I would say that there is a difference in the profitability between sauna heaters and the sauna rooms. But sauna rooms have been catching up, but it's a slow process catching up.

U
Unknown Executive

And why is the growth so low in Germany?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I think the main reason is that the entry-level heaters for the web store dealers they can turn down and all the rest seems to be rather normal.

U
Unknown Executive

And could you please give a comment on the Russian profitability, both absolute and relative for instance effect on margins going forward?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

No, my memory is not giving me an excellent service. Maybe Ari, can you step in and help a bit on the Russian profitability. But I would say it's close to average not the big variance direction.

A
Ari Vesterinen
executive

It's not the top profitability. It's slightly below average profitability for the group.

U
Unknown Executive

And can you give us an estimate of how much for the revenue growth was from price increases and how much from sales volume?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Good question. We have not done the analysis on that one so I cannot tell exactly how did it work. But what I would use as a back of the napkin type of an analysis. If we increase the prices roughly by say 5% on average, then I think people can do the math. Ari, you would agree?

A
Ari Vesterinen
executive

Yes. That's right. But one comment I would like to add to Germany. If we check -- I just compared during this discussion the figures from 2021, we were growing 100% in Germany in 2021. So that might be also one reason why the growth is so low currently in Germany since we have a very strong comparison year.

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

You're right, absolutely right. And I think yes, that's a good addition. I think last year, German market was really on -- not even hot, it was almost on fire and then we were able to supply almost everything we could. So it also looks a bit awake in that respect. But Ari, your comment is right.

U
Unknown Executive

How much was finished organic sales growth in Q1? Do you have any views how has been the sell-out from retail post war outbreak?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I don't have the organic Finnish number on my head and on the radar screen. Sales out, I don't know the latest and greatest, but I know it's been okay. But depending also on the region where you are and depending on the category, but I think sauna has been doing rather okay in that respect. But I think when you see -- if you dive for example, have a look on the Kesko just came out with their report and I think there is quite a lot of data in that respect. I won't go in too deep, do it yourselves when driving by on a weekend, then you see what the activity is over there. So still rather busy.

U
Unknown Executive

Does today's entry-level heater softness typically filter through into weakness in other products over time or is there no relation? In other words, is this segment normally the first one to weaken as consumer confidence weakens?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Good question. I don't have a good answer. I think we need to learn as we go through. And like Ari said, maybe the weakness is weakness, but not maybe that big of a weakness. The comparison was also strong. But I think that's something where we keep somewhat the pulse and monitor on a daily basis what's happening with the web stores and their inventories and we'll see how it goes.

U
Unknown Executive

And how was the order book compared to end of December '21?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Still very good and solid.

U
Unknown Executive

How much of the Q2 to Q4 growth last year was capacity...

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Still something that is not true. For sure, the Russia has the impact. Other than that, it was okay and normal and strong. But the Russia for sure has the impact on the order book. And by the way the Russian would like to order, but for sure we don't deliver anything. So that's the way it is.

U
Unknown Executive

Okay. Then how much of the Q2 to Q4 growth was capacity constrained last year and do you expect comparable growth in the coming quarters with the help of added capacity in Muurame and U.S.A.?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

The capacity is now fully in play and I think in terms of capacity, we are very okay. Productivity is also gradually coming into play. So I think for the productivity, we'll be enjoying quite nicely. And even last year, the ones who remember how our order books were developing, I think we were able to keep the order books on a certain level where there was no pain and we were able to operate. We ramped up the capacity, mainly the people and the shifts, and that's how we did the last year. And I think this year, we'll have no issue with the capacity. It's easier in terms of capacity than prior year.

U
Unknown Executive

And would the management prefer a faster growth of market share over profitability or do you prioritize maintaining margins over gaining market share?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I think we for sure want to grow the market share, but we don't like empty calories. So we'll need to do profitable growth in that respect.

U
Unknown Executive

Then about M&A. Do you see a high certainty for closing M&A transactions in 2022?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I think the road map we have developed is very solid and we have good candidates with whom to get potentially married. Then there's always question of whether both parties would be happy with the marriage and what is in a way the valuation in that respect and I think we will do our utmost to get something done on that respect. But at the same time, I would like to highlight that okay, something which is extremely high valued, we would consider but would not do or rather wait on the right moment in that respect.

U
Unknown Executive

And could you add a bit of color on how the demand has developed in the B2B side this year?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

The B2B I think overall has been waking up, but the demand is not in a way immediate demand. It's more of a request, tenders and offers you put in. Like I also explained to Mika that some of the tenders are maybe for the latter half of this year, maybe even for October, November, December and some of them are already touching the first half of next year. So they come in, they are clearly more activity. But whether you get them in the pocket takes a bit of time before you get them, but you get them step by step.

U
Unknown Executive

And could you please give us more color on the activity in Japan?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

The Japan -- I think I was very pleased to meet with Mr. Seiji Kasama on the last weekend and he's now on the tour in Muurame. Very good systematic plan with our team. In our team, we have a gentleman by the name of [ Akovalta ]. He's done a good job with the Bergman. And I think as we go forward gradually entering on the Japanese marketplace and the philosophy and the way they are doing is really systematic and sustainable way of doing business. And I think we would really love to help and add value on the process. And most of the needed components we have and some of the components we need to develop. And then I think at the same time, we maybe realized that there is an incremental opportunity on the really big professional market where potentially EOS could play a role.

U
Unknown Executive

And what is the expected approval impact for EOS for the U.S. sales in Q3 and Q4?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

We have not set an exact value or on that. Most important thing is to get the approval. And then when you launch something, which is both premium maybe even luxury on the residential marketplace and then for the professionals, you need to do it -- you can only do it once. You need to do it very properly. So we'd rather do it right than do it with a big volume and then have some issues afterwards. But I think when we do -- and it's good to remember that any equipment from their portfolio when Harvia's good decent heater maybe $700 in the U.S., the EOS heaters are multiples of that and the multiple is not only 2, it's clearly more. But the business will not be on the same level as Harvia business to start with.

U
Unknown Executive

And what's the expectation of getting the EOS approvals in the United States? What is the reason for the delay?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

The reason for delay is availability of componentry. And when you do an approval, they will check the full menu and all the ingredients of the heater and if you need to change one of the components because lack of it, then it starts from the square one again. But as we speak, I could maybe even almost smile, I'm rather sure we have it.

U
Unknown Executive

Great. And then about innovations. What are the most potential novelties for this year and next year?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I think most of them we've been discussing within this team and think on the digitalization, we continue developing that further and then taking steps on that. And that's already available in most of the markets. The Wi-Fi for the U.S. we got it just like 8 weeks ago so that's developing fast over there. On top of that is steam, we have a plan to make an independent standing steam room on top of the ones which are really done for the hotels and spas and things like that. And then on the -- I think for the urban areas, we have some ideas how to make sauna more versatile and maybe something on that respect. But I cannot tell exactly what's coming up, but something is coming up.

U
Unknown Executive

Then there's a question about cold therapies, ice bath and ice...

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

Good question. On the Kirami hot tub area, we also do the cold tub. That's now on the pilot. We have couple of those in our test, one in Muurame on our sauna over there as well. Then on top of that, we have got the approval for the auxiliary electric heating for the hot tubs. So soon we will be able to offer a hybrid hot tub by Kirami, which is the electric heated and wood burning heated at the same time and maybe even at a later stage some digitalization on the electric addition.

U
Unknown Executive

Then about Muurame, what's the situation regarding the workforce in the Muurame factory? Will more workforce be needed and will people have possibility to keep their summer vacations?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I think summer vacations, we -- by the way, last year we also did summer vacation. Vacations you cannot skip otherwise you will not have the people long term in the business. This year I think will be the same. Workforce I think we have a normal demand. But the Russian impact is most visible in our business both in our Muurame factory as well as on the China factory.

U
Unknown Executive

Is the Muurame expansion fully up and running already?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

The expansion itself is fully up and running and the machinery is where it should be and doing what it should do. But then the next step, which is the transition and new layout, changing the floor and some of the redesigning of the cells; that's ongoing as we speak. And before we go on summer holidays, we should have 90% of that done and when we come back from the summer holidays, 100% of that complete.

U
Unknown Executive

Then are you confident to maintain this 28% growth level for the rest of the year?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I cannot say that anyone is confident in this type of a world, but we are confident we'll be growing. Time will tell about the numbers. And now the -- it's good to remember now we have still quite a good immaterial growth on the first quarter. Then going forward both Kirami and Sauna-Eurox will kick in as an existing business. So I think -- but then on top of that, people need to figure out what is happening on the pricing level? What is happening with the market? But I think we'll -- our aim is to grow for sure.

U
Unknown Executive

And what is your margin target for the year?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

We have not set a margin target. But on the relative profitability, our aim is to improve and I think we have all the means to do it. Then the question is okay, what's going to happen on the raw material prices and how fast they will change and which direction they will change. But I think our own game plan is fully intact to make it work.

U
Unknown Executive

How flexible is the company about capital allocation regarding returning money to shareholders? With the stock price being down, is there any discussion on buybacks instead of -- or in addition to dividends?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

That's maybe more of a question for the governance and the Board. We've been discussing for sure this in detail, but it's beyond my area to comment on that.

U
Unknown Executive

Then about competition. In 2007 Apple launched iPhone and management of Nokia didn't see the initial threat in that when it was launched. Do you see any potential threats regarding competition in saunas and heaters? For instance, HUUM Saunas have grown really fast during past years in all over the world and also made entry to Japan.

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I think it has not gone without noticing and best regards for the HUUM people, be aware.

U
Unknown Executive

Right. Energy prices, they are increasing including also scarcity especially in Europe. How big is the risk for Harvia and how do you adapt to the situation?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I think that's an excellent question. And as long as we stay on reasonable increases, which have now been visible, people's behavior and the sauna frequency and using the sauna has not changed. In the professional marketplace, I think now gas has been on a topic in many places. We have a very small part of the business where we deliver gas-driven heaters, KUSATEK for the big event saunas and we've been monitoring whether there has been an impact of keeping the saunas open or acquiring new equipment. There is none whatsoever for the time being. But for sure if there really be a nonavailability of the gas, that may be affected. On the other hand, biogas is also available and maybe replacing some of that. But I think the economies in that specific business is based on the gas heater is more economical than electric. But for the time being, electric prices are still on the -- people have comfort zone on that and there are no major issues. But if they will be [indiscernible] or whatever, then for sure there might be something to consider.

U
Unknown Executive

Do you expect to open up new delivery channels in 2022?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I think in our expansion plan for the new markets, we also include deepening the distribution in certain areas. Yes, we do. And as we speak, we already have something coming into play and when they are in play, we'll for sure reflect a bit more on those.

U
Unknown Executive

I think the last question, the same one that you had already gotten before. Are you sleeping well?

T
Tapio Pajuharju
executive

I'm a good sleeper and you can ask my family and then they all attest the same.

Thank you. I hope we were entertaining the right questions and excellent questions. Thank you for that. Have a good day. Take care. Bye now.

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