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Earnings Call Transcript 2024-Q3

[Pia Posio, executive]

Welcome to Glaston Corporation Q3 2024 Results Webcast. Today, we will discuss about another solid quarter despite an uncertain environment.

My name is Pia Posio, and I will be hosting this session with you. We have Toni Laaksonen, CEO, for the first time today, sharing these results with you; and Paivi Lindqvist, our CFO, you might be already very familiar with.

They will share with us Q3 highlights, market review, financial development details and then outlook for 2024. And towards the end, we will have a look at the Glaston's strategy focus areas. And earlier today, we announced about plans to reorganize our functions slightly to reflect those focus areas, but Toni will share more about those towards the end. Please share your questions during the session already. We have reserved time for those in the end, and I will be hosting that session with you.

But before we get going with the actual Q3, Toni, welcome again.

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

Thank you, Pia.

[Pia Posio, executive]

We met here in August, while you were about to start as a CEO for Glaston Corporation. It's been a couple of months now. Could you share your first reflections about the company and of course, the industry which is new to you?

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

All right. So, very exciting months behind, I must say that, and I had several meetings with our people. I had the chance to visit all our factories during the first months and an amazing amount of customer meetings both in the countries, but also at glasstec, which we had this October and several, several meetings and very exciting discussions with them and also some stakeholder meetings and partner meetings. So, very exciting weeks behind.

And maybe some highlights from -- and reflections from those. One thing which is very evident at the moment in my mind is that, that we are definitely the industry-leading player in our field. So from the technology development point, from the product management point of view, we are definitely the leading player. So the R&D investments which we have been doing are paying off. Also the competence level with our teams in the technology development is very high. So, I'm very proud of the technology teams. And this feedback is not just coming from our people, it's coming from the customers and partners, which is excellent. So, I'm very happy about that.

Then on the other hand, there are, of course, certain opportunities and those opportunities, we are also now reflecting when we are updating the strategy slightly and also reorganizing certain functions. So, more information about those will follow later on in the presentation. But one major point there is that we will invest more in services. We have a lot of opportunities over there. And with these investments, I believe that we can boost our strategy implementation.

[Pia Posio, executive]

Thank you, Toni. Looking forward to hear more about that. But Q3 '24, fire away. Stage is yours.

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

All right. Thank you.

Starting from the Q3 highlights. So as Pia mentioned, the market environment was a bit challenging and that development has been continuing throughout the year. So, we saw the same development during the Q3. But despite of that, our order intake was slightly up compared to Q2, which was very positive development. So in these challenging times, we were still capable of capturing sales, capturing deals, and we saw good development in that sense -- in the orders. The architectural market remained slow and that's throughout the regions globally. So -- and especially in EMEA and Americas, we are seeing the least, let's say, market activities. But then there are certain opportunities with our new products also in those market areas. But overall, the slow market is impacting on our development.

Another positive point with our results was that the net sales were up, and the 4% development also helped us from the profitability point of view. So the insulating glass and the Mobility, Display & Solar technologies were all up compared to last year. And then the end result was that the strong profitability figure which we are now seeing in the Q3 results. And I'm really happy about the results. So, 7.5% EBITA margin, which is very good and clearly above the previous quarters.

Then we announced that the transfer project, we are transferring the pre-production activities from Switzerland or pre-processing equipment production activities from Switzerland to China. And that project is proceeding well. So it's proceeding according to the timelines we defined originally. And on the other hand, what we are seeing with the transfer activities is that we are meeting the milestones, which we defined early on in the project. And then on top of this, today, we announced some news related to the organization. So, we are planning to do certain functional changes, responsibility changes throughout the organization to accelerate our strategy execution, and more information about those will follow later on in the presentation.

Then a few words about the operating environment. As mentioned, we saw pretty slow development with the architectural market and especially in EMEA and in China, the development has been the most negative. In Americas, the situation is more stable and we are seeing some opportunities over there. And the same applies to the rest of the Asia Pacific region.

Then with the mobility market, I would say that the bright spot there was China. So, we also announced some orders from the Chinese companies and that's then linked also to austerity, to transfer certain activities more and more to the Chinese side. So the decision around the pre-processing products transfer was right in that sense that the Chinese market keeps on active development and now the transfer is helping us to capture more orders from that market. But then in the rest of the world, the situation is not that positive. On the Americas side, the development is slow. And then in EMEA and APAC, we are seeing some orders and positive movement compared to Americas.

Then when moving on to the services, there the situation is pretty much stable. And then on the APAC side, we started seeing some positive movement during the Q3. But all in all, the services side has been stable and that's also visible in our orders and net sales on the service side.

And then moving on to the financials. So, Paivi, please go ahead.

[Päivi Lindqvist, executive]

Thank you, Toni. My pleasure.

Let's start with the order intake. So the second quarter order intake was a little bit short of EUR 53 million and very slight growth compared to the third quarter of last year. Now this year, first quarter was clearly on the low side and from there, we are now gradually recovering in the orders. The regional split of the order intake in Q3 was rather similar to what we had in the first quarter, meaning that the share of APAC and especially China was rather high. So, APAC region as a whole was roughly at the same level as EMEA region. And then we saw a declining order intake in the Americas, mainly related to the timing of the orders.

Then if we look at the 9 months orders by product area, there we can see that the architectural machine side has been clearly negative this year. In tempering and laminating machines, the orders in the first quarter were very low. But since then, the trend has been positive. In Insulating Glass Technologies, then on the other hand, the second and third quarter have been on the low side. And when it comes to Mobility, Display and Solar Technologies, this year, the pre-processing orders from China is really the area, which is driving the growth here. Services in moderate positive growth at 5%.

Then if we look at the net sales, a bit higher than EUR 55 million in the third quarter, 4% growth. And this is very much driven by the growth in Mobility, Display and Solar segment, and they're both in machines and services area. Out of the architectural machines businesses, Tempering and Laminating Technologies net sales is down in 9 months by 28%, and this is driven by the lower order intake that we started to experience actually already from the third quarter of last year, and those low figures continued until the first quarter of this year. And that is now then reflected in the net sales this year.

Insulating Glass Technologies has been, from the net sales perspective, more resilient and the fact is there that we have had rather long order backlog, and that has helped the growth this year. Mobility, Display and Solar Technologies, 59% growth. This is coming from both the pre-processing and Heat Treatment Technologies and now towards the kind of latter quarters of the year, more and more from the pre-processing technologies. Services as a whole in 9 months, positive 3% growth.

And then if we move forward to the regions, now we start to see in the regional net sales growth figures, the very strong order intake from China. It has been a little bit volatile. In some quarters of this year, it has been very strong. On the other hand, for example, in the second quarter, it was on the low side. But this kind of a very strongly growing order intake in China already started in the latter part of last year, and that is clearly now visible in the net sales. And the APAC share is now 25%, and we had in the 9 months, 85% growth from the region. The China share of net sales in the 9 months increased from 6% to 18%. Then if we look at Americas and EMEA, in both of these regions, very much architectural dependent regions. We see negative growth figures.

Then if we move to profitability, Toni also mentioned this as a highlight of the report that we continue to see this gradually slowly improving profitability. EBITA in the third quarter was EUR 4.2 million, EUR 400,000 higher than what we had in the third quarter of last year. 7% growth in the EBITA, and then 7.5% margin compared to the margin in third quarter of last year. This is very much the profitability improvement -- profit improvement compared to a year ago is very much based on the volume development, now especially in Mobility, Display and Solar segment.

And then let's take a look at the reporting segments in a little bit more detail. Architecture, like discussed, architectural market still soft, and that also was visible in the order intake for the quarter. We have quite a lot of variation in the different businesses here from quarter-to-quarter. And also the comparison quarter was quite different for these businesses. So in total, 13% decline in the order intake, where -- actually now Tempering and Laminating Technologies had a growth of 72%. There we have to also recognize that the comparison period was weak. And then the order intake in Insulating Glass Technologies, then on the other hand fell 48%. And there then we have to recognize that the comparison period was very strong. So, quite a bit of variability if we start to look at the quarterly figures.

Services orders also increased by 8%, and this was driven by especially the upgrade orders in Laminating and Tempering Technologies. Net sales, on the other hand, went down in machines by 5%. And like I explained already earlier, there's quite a bit of decline in the Tempering and Laminating Technologies' net sales because of the lower orders in earlier quarters. And on the other hand, then insulating glass has been more resilient. Services for this segment was flat in Q3, and the services share increased slightly. EBITA in a small decline because of the volume. We also saw a nice improvement in the services margin, which then softened this volume impact. And I think, as a very good achievement, the EBITA margin then stayed at the same level as last year despite the volume decline.

Then if we look at Mobility, Display and Solar, there we saw strong order intake growth, 59%. Comparison period was not super strong, and this is very much driven by the pre-processing orders from China. Services orders were flat in third quarter. Net sales also strong increase, positive 37%, and that growth took place both in the machines and services. In services, quite a bit driven by upgrade net sales.

Then if we look at the profitability. Now last year, third quarter was still negative because of this pre-processing transfer to China and the low gross margins in the first deliveries. Now, this is already at good margin levels. But on the other hand, then we have kind of in the heat treatment area, we have some kind of first project deliveries and the lower margins on those then is impacting the total gross margin in this area. But still, the volume growth was so high that the business kind of returned to profits. The transfer of then all of the pre-processing equipment production from Switzerland to China has started. We are currently planning an inventory move from Switzerland to China. We did also have in the third quarter some EUR 300,000 of one-off items related to this, which is more on the personnel cost side so far.

All right. And then finally, cash flow and balance sheet figures. Operating cash flow was strongly positive, EUR 8.8 million in the quarter, driven both by good profits and also positive net working capital development. And, obviously, the increasing order intake, especially towards the end of the quarter impacted and contributed to this. Now, net debt and gearing have returned to the level that we had in the third quarter of last year. So, stable from that perspective. So we're coming -- we have come back from the bit elevated figures that we had in the first and second quarter.

But this was my part. And now, I would like to invite Toni back to discuss the outlook.

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

All right. Thank you, Paivi. All right.

So about the outlook, that remains the same. That's the main message here. So, no changes with the outlook. At the moment, it's clear that the comparable EBITA is still estimated to be around EUR 14.5 million to EUR 16 million. So, that outlook remains exactly the same. So, no changes in that sense. And from the sales point of view, 2023 sales was about EUR 220 million, and we still estimate that we will reach the same amount this year. So, no changes in the outlook.

Then about the strategy updates. So as mentioned, we have been working with the teams and having discussions internally about the new way forward. And one update has been that we decided to do certain minor changes with our strategic approach. This means that the high-level KPIs will remain the same. We will not do any changes with those ones. We are slightly modifying the focus areas, but no major changes. With the changes that we are planning to do, we see that we are capable of implementing the strategy in a faster way and boosting our profitability development. So slight changes with the approach, and the approach is then connected with our organizational changes.

And then about the minor changes of what we decided to do. So about the strategic initiatives, two first ones remain exactly the same. We still want to invest in the technologies. We want to develop our leading position as an industry-leading operator in the glass business. And the technology investments will continue and the product development investments as we have been stating previously, but then the change is related to the customer support and services. So as we are already in the leading position with several technologies in the glass industry, we want to do the same with our customer support and service level. So the target is that we start building an industry-leading organization on the services side and with our customer support so that we can secure high-level services in all core markets.

Then about the life cycle thinking. With that one, the major update with -- in that respect is that we want to also invest in our regions. And there will be certain changes with the organization around the regional approach, but also resource investments. And with these ones, we want to secure that we are very close to the key customers and can support them in a fast manner and provide support throughout the life cycle of the machines.

Then from the profitability point of view, as said, one way to develop our profitability is definitely to boost the services, and therefore, we want to invest in the services. But the other aspect here is that we also want to invest in our global operations so that we can optimize our operations and supply chain so that we can fully utilize our capacity all over the world. And certain organizational movement will happen around that one. And then the services investments in the capabilities and resources will definitely accelerate our services growth. So, those type of updates related to the strategy and mostly around services.

Then how do we then start executing these updated strategy aspects? We aim to do it now with the new organization and the planning process to implement the global setup completely starts from today. And the target is that, that we have the new way of working in place by the end of this year so that the new organization is fully operational in the beginning of January. And the major update here is that we will transfer into 3 business functions: Solutions & Operations, which will then have all the business lines.

So all the business lines, which were part of the 2 business areas will be consolidated into one unit, and that the profit and loss responsibility will be allocated to the Solutions & Operations business function. Also, the Automation and Software unit, which was previously a cross-functional function in our organization will be transferred into this Solutions & Operations unit. They will also host and manage the service product portfolio. And then the big thing here is that all the factories and our supply chain will belong to this unit. So, we will form a global operations and supply unit, which will then ensure that we can efficiently use our capacity all over the world.

Then moving on to the Market Areas unit. That will be the main customer interface from Glaston towards our customer base. And we will operate through 3 different regions: Americas, EMEA and Asia Pacific. And those regions will then have all the sales resources, customer-facing sales resources, both related to machine sales and services sales. Also the regional service operations, meaning technical services provided to the customer base, repair works and so on will be managed by the Market Areas.

And then finally, the third business function that will be called Service Supply & Development. There, we will have the spare parts, meaning the spare parts warehouses, global management of the parts inventories, supply chain for the parts and concept development for the parts business. Also, the process development related to our services will be managed by this unit and the system implementations and development globally. And with this approach, we believe that we can further accelerate our growth and strategy implementation, and it also supports the pre-processing production transfer activities. And as I said, the new organization will be valid then starting from January 1st.

When moving on, in January, the leadership team will be the following one. So the update here will be that Miika Appelqvist will then take over the Solutions & Operations unit, and his new position will be Chief Solutions and Operations Officer. Sasu Koivumaki will then manage the Market Areas, and his position remains from the title point of view, the same Chief Sales Officer. And then we will open the new service position for recruitment. So, we will seek candidates for that position starting from today. The finance function led by Paivi Lindqvist remains the same. Kaisa Latva continues to be the General Counsel. No changes in that respect. And then Riikka Laitasalo will continue leading the HR team globally.

And then as a summary, we want to highlight that no major changes with the strategy, some minor updates. So previously, we were stating that we are focusing on our core technologies listed in the strategy slide like tempering, laminating, insulating glass, mobility and solar. Here, the changes that we want to highlight that we have core technologies and services for these business lines. Then our strategy cornerstones over there, one change will be that we start focusing on the industry-leading customer service, and that is now updated on the cornerstone side. And the industry-leading customer service, it will mean physical service, but also the digital and online tools, which we are developing. So in that sense, the previous cornerstone focusing on the digitalization will be embedded to this industry-leading customer service cornerstone.

And that's the summary about the way forward. So no major changes, but high focus on services from the strategy point of view when moving on. All right. Thank you.

[Pia Posio, executive]

Thank you. Thank you, Toni, and thank you, Paivi. Let's spend time with questions at this point, and we start with the group level.

How would you describe the cost pricing equation in machines in Q3 versus the situation a year ago, both in terms of order intake and sales?

[Päivi Lindqvist, executive]

Do you want to take that? Well, I would say that cost inflation has moderated that we are over definitely the situation where cost inflation was a headache, and there was quite a lot of uncertainty on component pricing and so forth. So, I think we are kind of approaching a situation where the cost inflation is quite kind of close to the general inflation. Then pricing is, of course, a different question because we do not price according to the costs, but it is based on the markets and the market situation at the moment is quite soft. And then, of course, it means that we need to fight a lot more in the terms and conditions area and with the prices. And this will have some impact on the gross margins.

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

And maybe to add one point around the cost developments. So, one major thing from our side is that now when increasing our operations in China, we also believe that this will have positive cost impacts from our perspective. So, transferring activities to China will mean that most likely our cost base with certain components will go down, which will then partially offset possible inflation in the other countries.

[Päivi Lindqvist, executive]

Yes. That's clear that with our own actions, we can then also impact the cost of the components.

[Pia Posio, executive]

We might as well stay in China then. Regarding China and the construction markets, is there a heat treatment machine market at all currently? Does competition still get orders? So, what is the market sentiment?

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

Maybe I could take that one. So the building permits in China are still down. No significant positive movement over there. So the market is volatile and a bit soft as we described. So based on what we are seeing is that the customers in many countries, including China, they are not looking for more capacity, but what they are looking for is that they would like to find operative improvements, efficiency related to energy, efficiency related to the operating costs, more automation and maybe new products, what they could manufacture with the solutions. So all customers, including China, are looking for these kind of solutions, but not maybe capacity increases.

[Päivi Lindqvist, executive]

And then the architectural glass market in China has been weak for quite a while already. And in the heat treatment area, this has meant that quite a lot of our competitors have moved more towards the solar area because there has been more demand over there.

[Pia Posio, executive]

Then about transferring the pre-processing machine production to China. First, and overall, and then we have a couple of more details. How has the transfer developed at this point?

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

Yes. As mentioned previously in the presentation, we are now meeting the timelines, which we originally defined and the progress is proceeding according to the original plan. Based on what we are seeing is that we should be meeting the timelines this year. So, we haven't seen any issues this far.

[Pia Posio, executive]

And then the natural interest is related to costs around this. How much costs did you book in Q3 linked to this? And do you expect other things -- other costs to be booked towards Q4 and how much?

[Päivi Lindqvist, executive]

Yes. So for this transfer in the third quarter, about EUR 300,000 out of the items impacting comparability that we reported. In addition, there was even more of costs for this one U.S. patent case that we have talked about earlier as well. Then for the fourth quarter, the asset inventory and asset write-offs that we estimated to be roughly EUR 2 million, that has not changed the estimate. And unless there is something kind of unexpected happening with that process, those write-offs would be booked in Q4. And then in addition, there are other costs for Q4, and the current estimate is roughly EUR 1 million, but this also depends on how certain things progress during the quarter, but roughly EUR 1 million is the estimate for the other costs.

[Pia Posio, executive]

Overall, discussing the MDS markets and Mobility, Display and Solar segment. You know that there is continued volatility in the segment, but the orders along with revenues were quite strong in Q3. How is the customer activity currently? And is the volatility referring potentially to weaker Q4?

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

Yes. So on that side, I would describe so that the markets overall are not increasing. So as mentioned, the development is pretty much similar, as I described related to the China topic discussed previously. Outside of China, the companies are looking for modernizations, upgrades, some improvements to generate cost savings to improve their production, but they are not adding capacity. We are not seeing any significant activities outside of China to increase capacity level. Then on the other hand, in China, the electric vehicle market is still growing and there is a significant shift to the electric vehicle market. And then that is definitely then supporting the mobility market in China. And therefore, we have been seeing these orders on the Chinese side and also additional capacity investments by the manufacturing companies.

[Päivi Lindqvist, executive]

There are quite few customers in this area. And then, of course, it means that not too many customers order each quarter, and this is then creating the volatility. The orders that we have seen now in the first quarter and third quarter are on the very high side, I would say, that kind of expecting this kind of level to continue for a long period of time, I think is not very realistic. But potential, definitely, of course, we expect to continue.

[Pia Posio, executive]

Moving on to insulating glass. What should we think about insulating glass product area and the weaker orders recently? Is the weakness timing related? Or is the market just weak at the moment?

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

Maybe I'm repeating myself here a bit, but with the insulating glass, the situation is pretty much the same that all the customers are looking for operative savings. That was very evident at glasstec when meeting many of the significant players from the industry. And from their point of view, all investments which can help them to save costs, unit costs with their own production are very helpful. Therefore, they were really interested in new technologies, which we could provide to them. They were also interested in the new products, which we could provide to them to support their market expansion.

For instance, one example was this thin triple IG unit, which we can now provide globally to our customer base. There was high interest in that one. So all those kind of activities, which might then help the customers to win more business or save some money are very welcome, and they are looking for such investments. But as I said, capacity increases, they are definitely not looking because the residential and non-residential building permits are not developing in a positive manner. In some markets, the development is stable. In some markets, we are seeing some slight decrease. But investments, they still want to do, but the nature of the investments is different.

From our point of view, this is positive in that sense that we have several technologies, which can help the customers to make these savings and also get new products to the market. So we are expecting that for those ones, we are seeing demand. But then, of course, the investment decisions take some time, but there is definitely a big opportunity around that area to provide technologies, which could then help the customers next year to face the market situation.

[Päivi Lindqvist, executive]

Yes. I would say that especially in this insulated glass area, in glasstec, which is this kind of a very, very big global glass, exhibition glass show every second year, took place now in October and a number of these insulating glass kind of innovations, new innovations were launched in that event. So there is, I would say, a very attractive offering that just kind of entered the market now.

[Pia Posio, executive]

Maybe we stay, Paivi, with you related to insulating glass and sustainability and the megatrends related to energy efficiency and driving those efforts. How would you describe the mega drivers per se related to the insulating glass, the demand and the possibilities on that front?

[Päivi Lindqvist, executive]

Well, I don't think they have changed in any way. It seems to be that there is a lot of customer interest for kind of new technologies that make it easier for kind of renovate buildings for better energy efficiency. I think this thin triples that Toni was mentioning is extremely good example of this, a development that we have made together with one of our customers and together with Corning as well, like, we have announced. And it is really kind of enabling -- solving this problem that if you would like to put in a triple-glazed window that has a top energy performance with the traditional way, it's too thick in the kind of hole that you have in the building.

So with this technology, then actually we can make so thin that it fits there. And so bringing these new innovations that make it easier to do the renovations that we desperately need in a lot of places that we really have to reduce the energy consumption in our buildings because it is 40% of the total energy consumption and about 40% of all the global emissions. So that's, I think, one of those things that we can do to enable this transition. And this trend, it has not disappeared. It seems that there is demand, for example, these thin triples, there were -- at glasstec, there were interested customers from U.S., from Europe, from Australia, even China. So it is -- the kind of our customers are very much looking into this.

[Pia Posio, executive]

And the countries you mentioned are also known for having energy efficiency-related regulations that are...

[Päivi Lindqvist, executive]

Sometimes it is -- sometimes it is regulation driven and regulation, of course, plays a big role, but then it is quite often also a demand from the kind of building users.

[Pia Posio, executive]

Let's stay on the demand side and actually discuss more about the glasstec fair, like, Paivi, you mentioned every other year, biggest globally happening in Europe. What was the investment atmosphere in the glasstec fair that was actually held last week? Did you ink new orders there as you usually do? Or what was the sentiment this time?

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

Maybe I can take that one. So activity, at least on our stand was very positive, a lot of customer meetings, several discussions over there. The customers were excited about the new technologies, which we launched over there. Many people wanted to have further information about the technologies, follow-up meetings. So, we saw positive movement in that sense. From the orders point of view, we can then see the exact figures in our Q4 bookings because, of course, even if we sign something at the trade show, it's not booked as an order before we get the down payment. So, our expectation is that we see the full results when releasing the Q4 order intake. So, that will be released in February. But already before that, I can comment that positive signs at the trade show and especially the new technologies were interesting. And, of course, when thinking about the customers' perspective, when he or she is thinking about the big investment into his production line, the investment takes place for the next 10 years to 15 years. And then if there are new technologies now available and the investment decision is approaching, then why not to then immediately take the new technologies into use because then you have the opportunity to enter in that marketplace with your new products. And then that was definitely shifting the momentum towards us, and I was very positive about the trade show personally.

[Päivi Lindqvist, executive]

Yes. I would say the same. It seems to be very busy. And I was positively surprised because, of course, like I said, the architectural market is not very good at the moment. But at the same time, then the customers were definitely not in that kind of a downturn mode, but they were kind of very, very active and interested in the new solutions.

[Pia Posio, executive]

Let's stay with the offering development, and you already referred to this, one of the big trends in the industry is automation and increasing need for that. How is your automation offering developing? And how is the customer interest in such solutions, especially now when customers are seeking cost reductions for their processes?

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

So maybe I'll take this. Autopilot as an example, there we have now several installations and that's related to our furnaces. And many positive comments about the Autopilot at the trade show. We have been doing a lot of development, not just in-house development with the automation solutions, but also development with the customers. And for instance, from Australia, New Zealand area, I met one customer who was extremely happy. We had been developing the product together with them after the installation, getting a lot of feedback from their side and now the solution is very competitive and can bring benefits, a lot of benefits actually for the customers. You need less workforce to run the lines. You have better efficiency with the lines, meaning energy efficiency per produced unit and also better capacity utilization.

So in many ways, the solution helps the customers, especially in a situation like this where the market is not so active for the end customer, but then they try to find some ways to be more competitive. So, we'll definitely increase the cost competitiveness of our customer base and positive like demand in that sense.

[Pia Posio, executive]

And as a side note for those who are very keen on products and technical development, we also introduced something automating the manual work related to setting muntin bars into insulating glass units, which was actually very well welcomed by the industry. But all of those information are available also on the product-related areas. At this point, you have referred many times to market sentiment. I'd like to highlight that when you have a hold on to the presentation that we are showing here in the appendices, you will actually see the market indicators globally that we are following, and we encourage also you to follow to keep pace with the sentiment in different regions.

Seems like this was all our questions. Thank you very much, Toni, and Paivi for good answers, and thank you for good questions, of course. Here, we have the glimpse into next year already. So, we have shared the dates for financial reports for upcoming quarters.

And with this, I would like to thank our listeners, and I would like to thank Toni for the first results session in this new role. And then, of course, Paivi for the financial part. Thank you, everybody. And we look forward to meeting you again in February. It's going to be Valentine's Day.

[Päivi Lindqvist, executive]

Thank you all.

[Toni Laaksonen, executive]

Thank you all. Thank you, Pia.