Enento Group Oyj
OMXH:ENENTO
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Good afternoon, all, and welcome to Enento Group's Fourth Quarter 2021 Earnings Webcast and Conference Call. My name is Pia Katila, I'm Enento's Investor Relations Manager. And I'm joined by our new CEO, Jeanette Jager, who started in the beginning of this year, together with our CFO, Elina Stråhlman. We will open this news conference with our Q4 presentation followed by Q&A session. And for your information, all the presentation material is now available on our investor pages enento.com and the webcast recording later today. At this point, I have pleasure to hand over this to CEO, Jeanette Jager. Please, Jeanette.
Thank you, Pia. Thank you very much and again, a warm welcome. As mentioned, I have recently joined Enento while I am here to introduce myself in the short words in the beginning, while I will also leave the presentation part of Q4 and last year for our CFO, who also are acting CEO in the end of last year of 2021. So yes, a few words about me, a short introduction. I have recently joined Enento 4 weeks ago. And my former assignment was as CEO of Bankgirot, which is the Swedish payment infrastructure, handling both batch and real time payments to a value of about EUR 8.5 billion daily. So quite a society important assignment that I did within that area. Now in addition to that, I might also add that I've been working more or less forever with digitalization and change management since I have started my journey with the birth of Internet with assignments like the first internet banks, e-commerce, payment service providers, et cetera. I've also had the possibility to work in the Nordic, both within IT and finance for quite many years. And this has taken me through everything from IT, infrastructure, legacy, change projects to as well taking companies into more agile way of working, not only within the agile development, but as well also being a modern company when it comes to business agility in how you're driving the business. I have also worked quite a lot with how you actually then develop close customer relationships which, in the end, should lead to seamless and also frictionless customer experience from the company, which you are meeting. So that was just a little bit about me and my background. Now let's move forward about -- word about Enento. And now the agenda, Pia, which is in here, I thought that maybe I had that help from you. But in brief, we are actually now looking into a few words about Enento, but then we will continue, as I mentioned earlier, Q4 and full year with Elina. So let's continue. So why Enento? Why do you choose Enento? And I can actually also take that as an example of why did I choose Enento. Well, I would start with saying Enento has a very meaningful assignment. As what we used to say, we are building trust in the society. The data, which is the basis for business decisions and to decrease risks is what actually builds the trust in society. I do think that we do have a very meaningful work in doing that. In addition to that, I would also like to mention what we are now building on the ESG data side, but I will come back to that one. As well, we are -- and we will see a future growth in explosion of data. Now that is not new. We have seen that for quite some while, but we will definitely see that it will continue in that path. And what we do is that we collect the data, we enhance the data and we made the data intelligent and there is a big need for making data-driven decisions and having the data to make that possible. So what we can see is that we can actually continue to work with services on everything from regulation to ESG. So there is definitely a possibility for also future growth as our business is so very much being developed on the basis of explosion of data of also huge need of decision-driven, which will then be based on, for example, taking down risks, et cetera. Now the third area I would like to mention is that the company of Enento is also continuously working on both how we do it being business agile and as well as how we are also developing our services on new technology. So that is something we have done. We will continue to do. And that also includes being -- making it possible to use machine learning, AI, et cetera. So just a few words about future services. If we're looking back to the year of 2021, let's start with also acknowledging that we have done a lot of service development and launching. Actually, as much as 31 new services have been launched, whereas 7 in the last quarter. I have mentioned to you that I would like to address the ESG offering as we do believe that the ESG is about the portfolio of services based on actually a number of different needs as we are moving forward. ESG data, that is very much about taking what we have set up as our ambitions and our goals within our companies for years now. And what we see now is that we need the data base walk the talk understanding of do we do what we did say we did said that we should do. I can also take a couple of examples in this holistic perspective. As a consumer, you want to know that you are buying a sustainable service or product. As an employee, you want to work for a company who is taking the sustainability seriously. As an investor, you want to invest and do green investments. And as a shareholder, you also want to see a transparency in how we are moving forward. Again, the data is needed to see that we walk the talk. In addition to that, we will also now see a number of EU directives come into place, which also will need quite a lot of data in reporting to actually move forward. So what we are saying here is that we believe that our ESG data, which we have launched in Finland, which we will now also launch in Sweden, will have a number of possibilities as we mature in this service, and as we also continue to put a lot of emphasis on how we will make this offering successful. So that was just to bring you a few words about how and what we are doing within the field of growth. And by that, I would like to actually welcome Elina Stråhlman, our CFO, to continue this presentation next up. And I will come back a little bit later. Thank you.
Thank you, Jeanette. Great to have you on Board. You have truly chosen a great company to join to. But now let's take a few steps back still and look what we achieved last year and start from the Nordic integration progress. So overall -- well, if we think about the '21, we can be overall proud of ourselves in unpredictable environment and within a lot of changes internally, we managed to deliver our results according to our long-term financial targets. And in addition, we have now reached the targeted synergy benefits that we set for ourselves in the beginning of UC and Proff acquisitions. This means that we have now reached EUR 17.8 million synergy targets. And if we consider the key achievements, we have improved our efficiency successfully during this transformation period. We have also successfully integrated Proff into our operations, and we have launched several synergistic revenue contributors in the markets. Obviously, this is now the last time that you will see this slide and we will stop tracking officially the further benefits, but this doesn't mean that the work wouldn't continue. We continue to work with the Nordic future platform with various consolidations, and we continuously build Nordic future ways of working and develop our organization further. Then if we then move to the financial side. So as said, overall, we can be happy, happy about the results that we were able to deliver now during '21. On a full year scale, we delivered according to our long-term financial targets. And what was also positive is that now in Q4, we, again, after somewhat sluggish Q3, returned back to stronger growth path. We reached EUR 43.1 million of revenues in Q4, which then grew by 7.2% with comparable average reported FX rates and with 6% at comparable FX rates. The key reasons behind this good growth was positive development in consumer credit business in both markets. In Sweden, we returned back to stronger growth path. And then in Finland, obviously, the removal of the interest rate cap regulation further boosted the demand and growth. We also saw very handsome growth in relation to our business information services for SMEs and our premium business line. But, however, then the enterprise services under business information continued to develop more sluggish. On the profitability side, our adjusted EBITDA in Q4 reached EUR 14.6 million and grew by 2%. Adjusted EBITDA margin, however, diluted somewhat with 1.7 percentage points. The dilution was mainly due to the change in sales mix, which impacted the profitability by nearly 2 percentage points in Q4. As said, we saw very heavy growth, both in consumer credit business, Finland and the premium business under Business Insight likewise and these both come with variable costs. And due to that, our adjusted EBITDA margin also was moderated somewhat. On a full year scale asset, we delivered according to our long-term financial targets. Our revenue was EUR 163.5 million and adjusted EBITDA was EUR 59.1 million. Net sales grew 8.1% according to the guidance, given -- which reported FX rates and then with 5.9% with comparable FX rates. Adjusted EBITDA margin improved somewhat and was at 36.2%. It was also moderated by the very same reasons that mentioned in Q4. The change in sales mix impacted the margin development by close to 1 percentage points overall. We also have had a higher level of IT costs, as we have also discussed previously, following the increased activity levels in the platform transformation program. But this was shortly about the figures. Now let's look at more detail on the business area level. So we saw very strong growth, as said, on the Consumer business. Consumer Insight grew by 9.4% in the last quarter and returned to strong growth path. These are very good development both in the Swedish market and obviously now in the Finnish market as well when the interest rate cap was removed and returned back to 20% level. We also had very good growth under consumer marketing services under this business area. However, the direct-to-consumer business has developed in Q4 more moderately than we have before seen. The competition in that area is clearly tightening. And also we had high comparisons on the Finnish side following the previous year's data leakage in one health care service provider that then boosted our ID protection services 1 year back. On the Business Insight side, the growth was obviously clearly more moderate at 3.6% compared to previous year. There, as I said, we saw very strong growth in premium services for SMEs. The growth was double digit, both in Sweden and Norway, good one also in Finland. But however, that was then mitigated by the continuing sluggish performance in the Enterprise Services side. We continue to see a very flattish volume development on that side. And obviously, business lending continues to be on a moderate level, and we haven't seen sense of urgency in the markets either payment defaults have remained on a low level. And therefore, the volume situation has been rather stable. Also, we see that following the COVID times also customers are becoming more cost conscious and considering carefully, carefully what and when they buy. So all these things have impacted now the Enterprise Service development. Digital processes. Also there, we saw more moderate growth than in previous quarters at 2.6%. And obviously, that is then followed by the leveling of the real estate transaction levels in both markets. We are comparing now against record high volumes and transaction levels. And it has been expected that those will start gradually leveling off or the growth of it. Overall, all the business areas were supported by the contribution from new services. As one highlight, like I mentioned that, for example, in Business Insight area, we have successfully launched a Nordic growth certificate service in both markets in the premium business line, and that has very much supported the growth in that area. Then a few words on the profitability side. And as said, one key thing impacting our profitability was the change in sales mix. And that is visible both on the materials and services and other operating expenses. Materials and services increased with higher pace than the revenue did. And the key reasons behind that is the high growth that we experienced now in Finnish consumer credit business. That comes with a viable data acquisition cost. Personnel expenses, those increased in line with higher amount of employees. But on the other hand, the production for own use mitigated that impact since we also, at the same time, accelerated our focus in the growth and service development. Other operating expenses, as said, the high growth in that also relates to the -- mainly to the change in sales mix. The sales commissions related to the growth in premium business grew in line with that growth and obviously then costs profitability development to moderate. In this other operating expenses, we also have higher costs in relation to IT. As said, we have accelerated our efforts in the platform transformation program, and we also had some unexpected incidents now in Q4, that impacted the cost levels. But this was about the profitability. Then still a few words on the free cash flow. Free cash flow improved somewhat from -- compared to previous year's level and was EUR 10 million for Q4. Cash conversion was at good level, 74.6%. Overall, the operating cash flow developed positively, thanks to higher profits and also lower one-off payments compared to previous period, but this positive impact was then partially mitigated by the higher investments on growth. On a full year scale, free cash flow decreased from previous year's level, following the growing level of investments, but also in relation to the timing of payments and negative change in working capital as well as then some tax catch up payments related to earlier years. Cash conversion on a full year scale remained at 51.5%. But we believe that now, going forward, cash conversion will return close to 60% level. Finally, some words about the balance sheet, financial position and key indicators. So I want to say that not too much dimension on this side. Financial position continues to be strong. We have some EUR 25 million of cash at our hands and net-debt-to-adjusted EBITDA is a healthy 2.4 level. But now I welcome Jeanette back to talk a bit about the future guidance and dividends.
Yes, you can almost say because it will be very short. So about the guidance and dividends. To start with, we do see that we achieve through our long-term growth between 5% to 10%. Though as you can see, we are also regarding the growth. We are also guiding towards the lower end. And we also, again, regarding long-term targets, we continue with communicating that we will also increase our profitability as well going forward. Now so what's behind this? What's our thinking? Well, to start with, there are, of course, some uncertainties when it comes to the macroeconomic situation due to the pandemic. But in addition to that, we also have a strong belief in the service launches that we are doing. And I have mentioned a number of those earlier, which we -- which means that we can also as well as we're going towards 2022 and onwards, see that we have a good background for future growth. In addition to that, we also do have some uncertainties right now when it comes to the Swedish krona or maybe not even uncertainties anymore as you might have also taken part of the development with the communication from Riksbanken yesterday. What we are seeing here that is that we want to have comparable FX interest rates are now connected to our long term growth targets. So that means that in the meaning, what we are saying is that net sales growth 2022 at comparable FX rates. And to be within 5% to 10% long-term growth target towards lower end of the range, also with increased margin as well going forward. So that was a little bit about the guidance going forward. And in addition to that, I would also like to mention a few words about our dividends. When it comes to distribution of funds. Well, our official policy aim is to pay minimum 70% of earnings per share. And that in combination that we have a strong financial position means that we are now recommending that we, after a number of years being on the level of 95%, actually increase with another 5% to reach the level of EUR 1. And that was, in short, what we had to -- that we had to -- and that we have also prepared for you me and Elina, and I am now welcoming back both Elina and Pia for questions that you might have to us.
Thank you. And we are now ready for the questions, and we start with the questions over the telephone conference line. Please, operator.
[Operator Instructions] And we'll take our first caller. Please go ahead.
It's Daniel Lepistö from Danske Bank, and I have a couple of questions. So as you mentioned several times that the Enterprise Services for large customers has remained an issue. So what sort of catalyst is needed for this demand to kind of recover.
Well, I will start with that one. So obviously, what we constantly do is that we develop our offering further to bring more valuable services to our customers and support growth in that matter. So that is something that we have in our own hands to do. Then when we think about the demand levels as such. As said, we haven't seen business lending levels to increase heavily. It seems that companies are continuing to invest, but they have also gathered quite strong cash funds now during the COVID periods. So in that sense, we expect that if the investment levels would continue to accelerate more heavily, that should be started -- that should start to be visible also in our volumes as such. But as said, so far, we haven't seen this kind of development under the current market environment.
Okay. And if I continue on the Enterprise Services. So in profitability-wise that business has lower variable cost component and the Consumer Insights. So this kind of if the demand works up there, it would be a positive for the profitability assumptions next year -- following years. Am I correct?
Yes, yes, definitely. So it is very scalable business as such and hardly carries any variable cost elements. So you are correct in your assumption.
Yes, yes, yes. Then my third question, you mentioned that the active service development is for online consumer services. So can you give some practical examples of the services here and maybe any color on the potential new services?
Yes, we'll continue. And may I also, although at this stage say that most of the questions will be handled by Elina, which is connected to the business. But I will be here whether there is something for me to address as well. So please continue Elina. And if there's something that I can add on that, I'll do that.
Yes. We continuously develop all our offering as such. We have -- in online -- if you talk about online consumer services, there we have continued steady roadmap to develop the services further. Then if we talk about the business, Enterprise Services, there, obviously, if we think about the sustainability offering as such, that is one of the key areas that we see high potential for the long-term growth. In Business Information side, we are also now planning to extend our offering in the Norwegian market. So start to develop that further also organically and start addressing the risk management-related services there. So those could be mentioned as one of the -- or some of the key strategic initiatives that we have now ongoing and are expecting to start bringing some benefits already for next year.
Okay. And my final question is about the Goava Sales Intelligence of that strategic investments you made last year. So what are your experiences so far on this investment? And how is the project there developing? And do you plan to do this sort of ventures in the future as well?
Yes, that is something that we are very much currently evaluating. As you know, we have committed road map with the investments, and now we are evaluating the situation that -- what we will do next. Overall, we have seen that Goava business has in the Swedish markets developed positively, and there has been a good attraction for the services as such. But then regarding our further evaluation, that is something that we will then tell in the later releases more.
Evaluation as well as further decisions are planned for been made during this first half year.
And we'll take our next question. Caller, please go ahead.
It's Matti Riikonen, Carnegie. A couple of questions. I would like to go back to the large customer, the Enterprise segment demand that you see that has not actually developed anywhere or has been declining. When you say that the customers are cost conscious, does that mean that there would be more competition in the segment? Or has there been any price erosion? Or is this just a volume-dependent decline that you are seeing at the moment?
Well I would say that mainly it's the volume-dependent development, but what we also see is that the packaged services in various ways and customers clearly seem to be more cautious on what kind of packages they are now choosing. So they are more, let's say, buying for targeted purposes, whereas in previous periods, we have seen more, let's say, that they buy services more on a wider scale or wider packages. So this is something that we have been starting to see lately. On the competition side, especially in Finland, we continue to have the -- in our minds, we continue to have the best offering that there is in the market, and we continuously develop that further. So in that sense, we continue to have strong position going forward as well from that perspective.
All right. Do you think that there would be a more permanent trend that the customers are more picky in what they choose and what they want to pay for? So is this something that could actually become a larger issue for you? Or do you think that it is mainly related to the customers' way to save operating costs for the moment when the business activity is not very high. And then obviously, they are doing some small cost curtailments in that particular business situation. So how are you preparing as a company for these trends? And when you talk to the companies, do they say about their willingness to spend in the future?
Well overall, as far as now, we consider this more as a temporary trend. However, then the future remains to be seen. When we talk to our customers, they, all the time, have new needs for valuable services. So in that sense, we believe that there is all-time demand for developing services and companies continue to need our insight in decisioning going forward as well. But then whether this kind of cost consciousness type of behavior is something more permanent, that is too early to say. But at least as of now, we consider it more temporary.
All right. Then the second question related to the IT platform investments and additional costs. Did you mention how much extra cost did you have in 2021 related to the IT platform? And do you expect that number to increase going into 2022?
Well, we didn't mention any exact figure for '21. I can say overall that it was -- the increase compared to previous year was more than EUR 1 million, as we expect that to increase somewhat also going forward in the next year to come. That said, we are simultaneously working on also consolidation-related topics. So that will partially mitigate the cost increase impact. But nevertheless, we see that there is a growing pressure in the costs on that side.
Right. Just to clarify, so you had more than EUR 1 million extra cost compared to 2020? And did you say that you will have more than the EUR 1 million extra cost also in 2022 versus '21?
Well, versus '21, we believe that the costs will continue to increase. We can, at this stage, say that it can be somewhere around EUR 1 million or more costs on that area.
[Operator Instructions] We'll take our next caller. Please go ahead.
Pete-Veikko Kujala from SEB. I could ask on the digital product business unit where you have seen kind of a rather strong year in terms of the underlying volumes. But if we kind of assume flat housing market activity for the started year, do you see that you will be able to increase your revenue in this business unit? Or is it just purely market-driven performance ahead?
Yes, we see that the volume development will be much more moderate than what we have seen this year. But we still expect that we are able to grow also in this business area, thanks to new services that we are developing. We have, for example, under compliance services side, various items on going and roadmap plan. So in that sense, we do continue to expect growth then from the new services side. But clearly, the growth will be much more moderate than what we have seen this year because we expect that housing transaction volume levels will start leveling off now.
Okay. Then my second question, regarding the sustainability related services and products. Could you shed some -- a bit more light kind of in that sense, what kind of impact should we expect from that product or service area going forward, i.e., will it be a material revenue stream for you, let's say, within 2 or 3 years' time frame?
Well, obviously, now we are developing the offering and customer demand is all-time increasing. The impacts for next year -- I mean, like for '22, will still be moderate, but we definitely expect that in 3 years' time, we start to see significant impact from that offering. The demand and pressure on this area is all-time increasing and our customers want to start making more sustainable decisions. So there is clear demand for this kind of services.
So we could say that in this short-term -- sorry, in this short-term, we are still within '22 and maybe also '23. We are still keeping to fairly low revenues, but in the long term that we see this to be a substantial part of future growth connected to business information. So this is the start of long term, both investment and growth as we see it. Now in connection to earlier questions, which you have already -- also answered when it comes to how we see the growth in revenue? It is fair to say that when you have and you always do have services that mature. While you need to bring new value to those which we are, of course, additionally looking to, so it's not only about cost consciousness and price pressure, we always need to look into long-term because that was not good. So what's your thinking of this as management. Long term, we always need to see how do we bring extra value to the already existing major products. In addition to that, when we say that we see additional growth, that is very much connected to all of these services. Everything, as mentioned from regulation to sustainability that we see now that we will develop on top of the existing more mature portfolio of services.
Okay, excellent. Very helpful. Then my final question, a bit more technical one. Your recruiting picked up rather significantly during Q4. So what should we expect going forward? And where that -- those increased recruitments were kind of put into? Whether they are related to the IT platform renewal or sales? Or could you elaborate a bit more on that?
Well, it relates to various investments in growth. Obviously, the platform transformation is one area where we have aimed to recruit. And overall, we also constantly aim to in-source critical roles that we see that are needed in-house rather than having consultants in place. So it was a combination of -- in the Q4, it was a combination of also in-sourcing activities, but as well investing in the growth.
And we'll take our next question. Please go ahead.
Okay. It's Sami Sarkamies from Nordea Markets. My first question is actually to Jeanette. You're obviously only starting your journey with Enento. But based on what you know today, where do you think you will be able to contribute? Will you make Enento a more international company, a more growth-oriented company or a more efficient company?
Hopefully, all of that, that would be my aim. But -- so what can I bring to the table? And I -- in my introduction, I mentioned to you that I've been working quite a lot, both with digitalization back to front, meaning that when it comes to the innovation and growth part, I do see that I can contribute from my different experiences, which is not only related to finance. And we should also remember that we have quite many industries who are customers to ours, who wants to -- who wants, I would say -- they want to have a frictionless digitalized experience when it comes to our deliveries. In addition to that, they, of course, want to have a company which they both trust and find to be a modern and innovative partner for them. I also do think that my background from IT and transformation and change, can be an asset for us moving forward. We do have the history where we are a number of different companies coming into one -- being one Enento. And of course, we have mentioned a couple of times here, the need to move forward to cost-efficient, but also modern technology, which is the base for handling all of this data. So I do hope that my experience within as well digitalization, IT, change management leadership will come into handy to hopefully achieve all of the mentioned aims that you brought up.
Okay. And then I have a couple of questions for the CFO. Firstly, on the Finnish Consumer Insight, are you able to disclose how much of the growth in Q4 came from the Finnish Consumer Insight business that benefited from removal of the interest rate cap? And do you think this removal will be a permanent thing?
Well, as you know, we don't disclose the growth in that detail. You probably know from the previous -- as said at times that the business size as such is less than 10% of our total revenues. But that said, that business grew with double-digit rates now in Q4. So it was really a good contributor to our growth. What comes to the expectation of the regulation that we know that government has a working group, considering adjustments, possible adjustments to the regulation, but we don't have any further insights on that. We expect that information about that will come earliest in Q2.
Okay. And then finally, can you please explain why you are a bit cautious regarding the growth outlook for this year? I mean, if we look at the overall post-pandemic recovery there's quite positive momentum across the Nordics. And then if you look at the Enento performance last year, it wasn't sort of the typical flawless execution. I mean you mentioned the third quarter yourself. And then additionally, you will be benefiting from the recovery of the Finnish consumer credit market. So why are you being cautious with guidance?
Well, overall, we see that there are obviously opportunities and demand will also support us in next year. We believe that the demand support will be concentrated, so to say, in the Consumer Insight business area. We believe that the consumer credit business development will continue positively. That said, obviously, there is a risk of change in regulation on the Finnish side. But nevertheless, we have positive expectations on the demand on that side. What then is much more uncertain, as said, is the development of the business information enterprise services and also then the digital processes, housing-related services and what will happen to the housing transaction levels. Then when it comes to uncertainties, overall, we have great service launches to planned for next year. But obviously, there are also always uncertainties in relation to those.
Yes. And maybe a follow-up. You mentioned that in business information, your clients have become more cost-conscious. Are you referring to the banking customers that used to be your shareholders and some still are, but -- are you referring to other sectors?
When we talk about now the Enterprise Service cost-consciousness related topics, so we see it more like in the corporate sector in Finland. So obviously, our main customers' banks, they are and continue to be all the time, very cost-conscious, but now what I'm more specifically talking about relates to wider -- in wider sense to the corporate customers.
And we'll take our next caller. Please go ahead.
It's Matti Riikonen, Carnegie, again. Two questions. First, regarding salary inflation and your ability to recruit. So do you think that you would be in the 2% pay hike range where most of the Finnish trade unions seem to be at the moment? Or do you think that there's more price pressure or salary inflation taking place among your employees? And how has that affected your ability to recruit? You did recruit quite well in Q4, but do you think that you are still able to get the people you want?
Regarding the salary inflation, to start with. So we expect somewhere around 2% salary increase rate. I would say that the pressure could be slightly higher on the Swedish side as of now compared to the Finnish side on that sense. Then regarding our capabilities to recruit, we have a good employer brand, but that said, especially now the IT talents are -- the market in connection with IT-related talents that is very much heated, I believe, in both of our markets. And that may impact our recruitment pace and obviously, we continuously work on this matter as well. But that said, that market is clearly heated and may impact both on our service development capabilities and resourcing otherwise as well.
All right. And then the second question is related to your freemium services. You mentioned that the volumes have grown, but it would be nice to hear from you -- your comment about, is your revenue model working in that space? And are the services already covering the cost? And have you been able to improve the profitability since you acquired Proff?
Yes. If we talk about Proff business, which covers mainly freemium, but also premium services. So we have gained significant improvements also on the profitability side. We have both launched new services, new synergistic services on Proff platforms and clearly improved the margin on that side. What then comes to premium services and scalability overall. So then on the Swedish market, we continue to have -- that continues to be very much telesales-driven. And there the scalability is rather low at the moment.
All right. And I just want to make sure that you heard me right. When I was talking about freemium services, starting with an f, so that -- is that done with telesales? Or did you talk about premium services?
Yes. So freemium services under Proff area, but also on the Swedish business. No, that is not done under telesales. So you're absolutely right. So -- but Proff business as such contains both freemium and premium services. So that's why -- sorry, for mixing these two topics. But we have managed to gain increased profitabilities in Proff area.
Yes. Thank you. I might be bold enough to comment that in the way that we see good growth in freemium, doing a great job. Now what we could also maybe even more enhanced in order to reach growth is the conversion from freemium to premium. So let's see if we can make that even more successful.
And we have no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn the conference back to our presenters for additional questions.
Thank you. And here, we have all the questions for this time. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.