Acushnet Holdings Corp

NYSE:GOLF

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the VICI Properties Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2024 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference call is being recorded today, February 21, 2025.

I'll now turn the call over to Samantha Gallagher, General Counsel with VICI Properties. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator, and good morning. Everyone should have access to the company's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings release and supplemental information. The release and supplemental information can be found in the Investors section of the VICI Properties website at www.viciproperties.com.

Some of our comments today will be forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. Forward-looking statements, which are usually identified by the use of words such as will, believe, expect, should, guidance, intends, outlook, projects or other similar phrases are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from what we expect. Therefore, you should exercise caution in interpreting and relying on them. I refer you to the company's SEC filings for a more detailed discussion of the risks that could impact future operating results and financial condition.

During the call, we will discuss certain non-GAAP measures, which we believe can be useful in evaluating the company's operating performance. These measures should not be considered in isolation or as a substitute for our financial results prepared in accordance with GAAP. A reconciliation of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measure is available on our website in our fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings release, our supplemental information and our other filings with the SEC. For additional information with respect to non-GAAP measures of certain tenants and/or counterparties discussed on this call, please refer to the respective company's public filings with the SEC.

Hosting the call today, we have Ed Pitoniak, Chief Executive Officer; John Payne, President and Chief Operating Officer; David Kieske, Chief Financial Officer; Gabe Wasserman, Chief Accounting Officer; and Laurie McCluskey, Senior Vice President of Capital Markets. Ed and team will provide some opening remarks, and then we will open the call to questions.

With that, I'll turn the call over to Ed.

Thank you, Samantha. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us. Over the course of the next few minutes, leading into our Q&A session, you'll hear from John Payne on our growth activities, and you'll hear from David Kieske on our financial results, financing activities and initial 2025 earnings guidance.

I'll start the call with a few words about the announcement we made Wednesday morning, initiating a new VICI strategic and financial relationship with Cain International and Eldridge Industries through an initial investment in the financing of the One Beverly Hills development. Like most of VICI's growth activities, this VICI investment is a result of our growing a new relationship. This relationship began last May when on a trip to London, I spent time with Jonathan Goldstein, the founding CEO of Cain International, a diversified global real estate development and investment company. By the end of our hour, Jonathan and I agreed that we should find ways to work together. Our urge to work together grew out of the recognition that we share convictions and we share values.

We share conviction in the secular strength for years to come of experiences. We share cultural and ethical values around partnership. Put another way, the meeting of Cain and VICI is a meeting of minds and a meeting of ambitions, particularly the shared ambition to invest in differentiated place-based experiences when those experiences are entertainment, hospitality, wellness or sport based. For those of you not familiar with Cain, which as of year-end 2024, had nearly $18 billion in assets under management. It was founded in 2014 by Jonathan and his partner, Todd Bowley, and is affiliated with Eldridge Industries, an investment company founded and led by Todd Bowley.

Cain and Eldridge have made investments in iconic experiential brands that include Aman, Delano, St. James Sports Clubs, [indiscernible] and Flexjet. Todd is an owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Los Angeles Lakers and both Todd and Jonathan are owners of [indiscernible] in the English Premier League.

As 2024 went by, Jonathan asked that Cain's development of One Beverly Hills might be our first opportunity to work together. These discussions enabled Cain, Eldridge and VICI to get to know each other better, and over the last few months, we all came to believe that our shared conviction around place-based experiences could yield as many compelling opportunities to work together in the years to come. And that's why as well as announcing our One Beverly Hills investment on Wednesday, Cain, Eldridge and VICI also announced our joint signing of a letter of intent, expressing our intention to work collaboratively to identify and pursue experiential investment opportunities that meet our respective investment objectives.

As you would have seen, if you review the investment deck we posted to our website, One Beverly Hill stands to rank among the most compelling American luxury hospitality, retail and residential developments in recent history. The development is currently rising out of over 17.5 of the best-located acres in Beverly Hills, a triangle bordered by Wilter Boulevard, Santa Monica Boulevard and the L.A. Country Club. This development is centered on the Aman brand among the world's most venerated luxury hospitality brands. One Beverly Hills will be the largest realization of [indiscernible] branded hospitality, wellness and living to date with an Aman Hotel, and Aman wellness spa and Aman Club and 2 Aman residential towers.

The development will also include a full renovation of the legendary Beverly Hilton longtime host site of the Golden Globes and the Milken conference as well as 10 acres of botanical gardens and open space with high-end retail and dining offerings.

Capital is a key fuel for ambitious placemakers and experienced creators. Cain stands among the most ambitious place makers we have come to know and yet Cain balances that ambition with what we've seen to be strong capability in development risk management. We believe multigenerational, multinational demand for the differentiated experience within the differentiated place will create abundant opportunities for Cain and Eldridge in the coming decades, and we're excited about the prospect of becoming a long-term partner in their growth. This announcement of our new partnership with Cain and Eldridge represents our first new venture in what we hope will be a year of new investment ventures in both gaming and non-gaming. For more on that, I'll now turn the call over to John. John?

Thanks, Ed, and good morning to everyone. I'll start by reiterating enthusiasm around the new strategic relationship we formed with Cain and Eldridge. As we've said time and time again, deep relationships are at the core of VICI's investment strategy. Through the development of a new relationship with Home field, Kansas City and the strength of existing relationships with Great Wolf and the team from Venetian, we were able to commit approximately $1.1 billion of capital in 2024 at an initial yield of 8.1%.

The quality and scale of our existing portfolio also accrues to the value of our platform. Since our last earnings call in early November, the VICI team attended the NAREIT Conference in Las Vegas. The conference provided a great opportunity to physically showcase our Las Vegas Strip assets and convey the incredible scale of operations happening at these properties every single day. For example, the Venetian to which we committed up to $700 million in 2024 through our partner property growth fund strategy, sprawls over 17 million square feet, it is being proactively reimagined across several business verticals, including convention, food and beverage, hotel rooms, gaming floor optimization, entertainment and more to drive the continued growth of the operating business as well as capitalize on the sphere, which sits behind the Venetian.

In RJ Milligan's NAREIT recap note, he observed that I quote "with all the events in and around Las Vegas, it was hard to ignore the quality of VICI's real estate, which we don't think the market is giving them enough credit for. It's just so hard to comprehend that VICI was able to purchase the Venetian at the same cap rate as a well-located dollar general, " well stated RJ.

Las Vegas tourism also continues to hit records. According to the LVCVA, 2024 saw record airline passengers through Harry Reid Airport at [ $58 million ] for the year and visitation to the city increased 2% year-over-year to approximately $42 million. Our operating partners recognize the value in proactively investing in and reinventing experiences at our assets to capitalize on demand. For example, MGM Grand recently announced a $300 million remodel of all of their 4,200 hotel rooms to be completed in December of 2025, and launched their Palm Tree Beach Club outdoor music and entertainment venue, which will open in May of 2025. Caesars New Orleans just opened following a comprehensive $435 million renovation and the property hosted many Super Bowl goers a couple of weeks ago.

And in November of last year, Harvey's Lake Tahoe also announced a $100 million all-incumpency transformational project just since the fourth quarter, our operators have announced nearly $1 billion of investments in our real estate. That is reflective of our shared conviction around the value of high-quality experiences at high-quality properties.

VICI believes that the quality and scale of investment opportunity in our existing properties as well as our ability to cultivate and maintain deep relationships with our partners will provide springboard for future growth.

Now I will turn the call over to David, who will discuss our financial results and guidance.

Thanks, John. I'm going to start with our balance sheet. As we begin 2025, 7 years after our IPO in 2018, I want to highlight 2024 reflect on how far our balance sheet has come since well going way back to our pre-emergence in the summer of 2017, when VICI had total leverage of roughly 10.5x debt-to-EBITDA. We were born with a very unnatural balance sheet for a REIT, short tenor, secured debt, second lien debt, a $1.6 billion CMBS loan that matured in 2022, all instruments that we knew were not consistent with becoming the blue-chip REIT, we do we should and could become. .

After we emerged in October of 2017, we got to work on fixing our balance sheet. We started to chip away the second lien notes with our IPO and retired the remaining $498 million in February 2020 in connection with the Eldorado Caesars merger, we retired the CMBS debt. And with our acquisition of MGP, we were able to retire all of our remaining secured debt and received an investment-grade credit rating from S&P and Fitch in April of 2022.

There was one straggler at that time, Moody's. Through the leadership of [indiscernible], we put our heads down and worked with Moody's over the next 2 years to educate them on the merits of gaming, the resiliency of our tenants' business and the quality of our balance sheet. That work paid off with the Moody's upgrade we received on November 18, 2024, giving us an investment-grade credit rating across all 3 agencies. The ratings upgrade should accrue to our benefit with an improved access to and cost of capital over time. We believe our balance sheet and unsecured debt complex is one of the more liquid debt complexes across the weak landscape with total debt of $17.1 billion, which we have unsecured debt of $14.1 billion. This creates liquidity in our unsecured notes, and we saw this in our December refinancing where we had several new institutional credit investors coming to our offering.

The quality of our balance sheet was also highlighted during our recent recast of our unsecured revolving credit facility, which we closed subsequent to quarter end with a new $2.5 billion facility. We had strong sponsorship from our bank group and want to thank each and every institution that committed to that facility and the conviction they all have in our balance sheet and business.

We have approximately $3.3 billion in total liquidity comprised of approximately $525 million in cash, $376 million of estimated proceeds available under our outstanding forwards and $2.4 billion of availability under our revolving credit facility. Our net debt to annualized fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA, excluding the impact of unsettled forward equity was approximately 5.3x within our target leverage range of 5 to 5.5x. We have a weighted average interest rate of 4.41% taking into account our hedge portfolio and a weighted average 6.4 years to maturity. Again, thank you to Aaron and the entire team for the work that has been completed, but know that we are not done with a continual focus on improving our balance sheet.

Touching on the income statement, the AFFO per share was $0.57 for the quarter, an increase of 3.6% compared to $0.55 for the quarter ended December 31, 2023. For the full year 2024, AFFO per share was $2.26, an increase of 5.1% compared to $2.15 for the full year 2023. Our results highlight our highly efficient triple net model, given the increase in adjusted EBITDA as a proportion of the corresponding increase in revenue. Our margins continue to run strong in the high 90% range when eliminating noncash items.

Our G&A was $20.7 million for the quarter and as a percentage of total revenues was only 2.1%, which continues to be one of the lowest ratios in not only the triple net sector, but across all REITs.

Turning to guidance. We are initiating AFFO guidance for 2025 in both absolute dollars as well as on a per share basis. AFFO for the year ending December 31, 2025, is expected to be between $2.455 billion and $2.485 billion, or between $2.32 and $2.35 per diluted common share. Based on the midpoint of our 2025 guidance, VICI expects to deliver year-over-year AFFO per share growth of 3.3%, a very solid starting point as we begin 2025. As a reminder, our guidance does not include the impact of operating results from any transactions that have not closed interest income from any loans that do not yet have final draw structures, possible future acquisitions or dispositions, capital markets activity or other nonrecurring transactions or items. With that operator, please open the line for questions.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question for today comes from Anthony Paolone from JPMorgan.

I guess my first question is, from our side, we obviously just see the things that you closed. But just wondering if you could talk about kind of what deal flow looked like in '24 and what it looks like currently in contrast to maybe in prior years, whether you're seeing a lot of stuff and it's just not making it past the finish line or you're not seeing as much you'd like in terms of the outright property purchases. And so any color there would be great?

Yes. I'll start, Tony, and then I'll turn it over to John. 2024 for us was a year in which we did not see anything resembling a plentiful flow of compelling high-quality real estate acquisition opportunities. We did see a very compelling opportunity to further invest in one of our marquee properties to Venetian. And what we also saw is that while high-quality existing assets don't appear to be widely for sale or at least didn't in 2024, highly compelling, high-quality developments were there. And a lot of the work we've done whether with home field at the very beginning of the year, whether our ongoing work with Great Wolf, our ongoing work with Canyon Ranch and Cabot. And now our new work with Cain and Eldridge is about identifying and providing capital to great experiential place makers and getting very, very good yields on it, especially when comparing those yields to the incredibly high quality of the developments we're helping to fund.

And beyond that, I'll turn it over to John, who can give you further color on what we saw in 2024, but maybe more importantly, what we believe we will see in 2025. John?

A little bit to add, Tony, good to talk to you this morning. If one of the parts of your question was, how does it compare to years before. Remember when you started the company, as David walked through some of that history in his opening remarks, we really were born simply a casino triple-net lease REIT. Today, with Ed's announcement and our announcement the other day, you can see we continue to diversify our portfolio. So the funnel continues to get wider of things that we look at. And I would say the beginning of 2025 as busy or busier than I've been in a very long time. And we continue to be very thoughtful of where we put our capital to work, the type of partners that we want to do business with, the type of growth potential.

So that's a long way of saying we're quite busy. The funnel is wide. We're looking at a variety of things in the experiential and the casino gaming space.

Okay. And then just a follow-up. Any comments on where you think cash yields would be right now for some of the various buckets that you're looking at, whether it would be where high-quality asset on the strip might be versus regional versus some of the other categories?

Not a lot of visibility into that, Tony, on the strip. Obviously, we haven't seen any meaningful trades recently on the strip. And I think with the volatility that we've seen in the 10 year over -- well, what do we know the last 3 years and this year has not really represented a meaningful change from that volatility. I think it's really -- it's a little bit hard to get pricing certainty on permanent assets whether on the strip, regional, I think there's been more trading activity, John. So there's probably somewhat more clarity there. So again, quality for us is a key consideration.

And remember on the strip, Tony, the world is pretty good out there. I'm not sure there's a market that had such great success again in 2024 after following a record of 2023. So operators looking to sell those assets on the strip is not likely at this time because the business continues to be strong across many of the different segments in Las Vegas.

Our next question comes from Caitlin Burrows of Goldman Sachs.

Maybe just following up on the development funding, talked. I know you mentioned that when you look through the opportunities of '24, it seems like that's what sense at the time. So I guess how do you think of that development funding that eventually gets paid back versus acquisitions? And what that means for the future of the portfolio and like recurring nature of income?

No, it's a very good question, Caitlin, and it's one we think and talk about a lot at the Management table at VICI. We -- as a starting point, in this particular case with Cain and Eldridge, much has been the case with Great Wolf. We are not overly concerned about the money coming back because of the depth and time extend or the pipeline, we believe we could have with Cain. And in this particular case, I obviously need to be careful here, but I do want to say that in the particular case of One Beverly Hills, we are working -- we continue to work with Cain and I should know the money [indiscernible] $300 million has already got out the door, but we continue to work with Cain at potentially participating in a larger and longer way with One Beverly Hills.

But beyond that to really get to the heart of your question, we see a pipeline of opportunities with Cain across their various verticals that could enable us to continue to roll our capital into new Cain ventures. When they talk, for example, about the growth opportunity for [indiscernible] globally, especially across Europe in the coming decade. We see an opportunity to continue to be a funding partner in that particular example, much in the way David and the team have been now a steady partner to Great Wolf, for how long, David?

Yes, 5 years.

We obviously are mindful of the fact that this money will come back to us at some point or could come back to us at some point, Caitlin, but we really do focus on relationships that we think could enable us to continue to basically roll that capital into new manifestations of a given partnership.

Got it. Okay. Yes, that makes sense. And then maybe like nerdy question, but on the share count, you guys have a lot of forward equity. So can you go through over what time period you're required to settle those shares under what conditions you would choose to settle them and what assumptions for your own share price or assumed in guidance? .

Caitlin, as we've done for many years now, we have outstanding forward equity on a quarter-by-quarter on an annual basis. And those contracts are typically 1-year contracts, but they are extended and amended to go beyond that initial period of time, and that is very commonplace with banks and the counterparties. And then in our guidance and our share count, we use the treasury stock dilution method [indiscernible] in making some estimates around reasonable projections around future stock prices. We've been incorporating a level of dilution into our guidance range, but do not obviously take into consideration the entire those outstanding forward because we use those to match funds potential acquisitions, which are not in our guidance.

So this is very common across the REIT land and we've been doing it and I know a lot of other triple nets have done it for years.

And maybe I'll just add to what David said, Caitlin by emphasizing that the way we did it for 2025 guidance is the way we have always done. There's been no change in the methodology.

Our next question comes from Barry Jonas of Truist Securities.

In September, you'll have the right to call the Caesars Forum Convention Center at the same cap rate you had on the Indiana properties. Any thoughts you can offer on the puts and takes to exercising that option?

Barry, John Payne, good to talk to you. It's definitely an asset that you're well aware of -- they built a great facility there. It anchors the empty acreage that we have in Las Vegas. So we'll continue to see how it's performing when that time comes up and obviously also connects to one of our assets in the [indiscernible] facility that we own the real estate in the building and lease it back to Ceasars. So -- it's definitely on our radar. It's definitely something that we've been looking at over the years and well aware of this opportunity that we could have, and we'll continue to study it in the time period as it approaches.

Understood. Understood. And then just as a follow-up, I'm not sure you've talked about this before, but you've obviously operated golf courses, but is there a scenario where you would consider operating casinos or other assets in the TRS?

Well, as a starting point, any casino and Samantha and David help me out here, any casino that went into a TRS would have to be a casino with 0 repeat 0 hotel rooms. There is an intricacy or nuance of REIT legislation that would perfidthe inclusion of a casino with hotel rooms in ATRS. Beyond that, I would say we don't see that happening. We would not seek to have that happen. I guess it's always a possibility that we would be silly to rule out [indiscernible] with 100% certainty, but not in our plans.

Our next question comes from Greg McGinniss of Scotiabank. .

Give the nonbinding letter of intent on the new partnership with Cain and Eldridge, how would you describe your competitive positioning relative to other capital providers especially as they consider more permanent financing options upon completion of that development?

Yes. Yes. It's a very good question to ask, Greg. I would say that in the case of One Beverly Hills, so again, we shouldn't rule out anything ever a priority, [indiscernible] we do not expect to become a permanent real estate owner of the assets at One Beverly Hills. But having said that, based on the discussions we've already been in with Jonathan Goldstein and with Todd [indiscernible]. We see opportunities to work across the portfolio. For example, in the Cain and Eldridge portfolio, you will see that one of the investments they have in St. James Clubs. And again, I really emphasize looking at that slide in the wonderful deck that Hayes put together. And St. James Club can represent an example of us to further capitalize on the knowledge we gained through our investment in Chelsea Peers into these kind of sports and recreation complexes.

And absolutely, they will always have the ability to seek other forms, other sources of capital. But I will emphasize that there is a cultural union between or among Cain, Eldridge and VICI that gives us a lot of confidence that we will always have a chance to be a partner of choice to them as they seek to capitalize the really compelling experiential investments they are making.

I mean, I will say to that regard, Greg, Greg, I'll just say to that regard. It was Todd [indiscernible] who proposed, "Hey, let's do an LOI. " I mean Samantha can explain why in a case like that, you kind of have to make it nonbinding, but it was a sign of Todd's commitment to the partnership.

Okay. Good to hear. I guess thinking about investing in the assets that you already have. One, curious as Venetian kind of looking for more of the capital you've potentially committed. And then MGM guided to slightly lower growth CapEx funding for this year. So it does appear they're allocating some funding to MGM Grand. What's your kind of general sense for how CapEx budgets are trending for casinos compared to the last few years? What might that mean for your investment opportunities with them in Las Vegas and regionally? And then also, how does that compare to the contractual obligated CapEx?

Yes. Very good question. I'll start in Las Vegas. One of the advantages of our portfolio and having such a big presence in that market as the assets are absolutely incredible. In my opening remarks, I talked about [indiscernible], and I said that then over 17 million square feet that's bigger than some companies whole portfolio, and it's one of our assets in 1 market. Why I bring that up is that it provides opportunity for us to brainstorm with the operator about how to use our capital to continue to have them grow. And obviously, we -- over the past year, we announced the amount of money up to $700 million we've been putting in with the Apollo team into the Venetian.

We have those same conversations with our other partners and operators. Obviously, Las Vegas has bigger boxes than the regionals. But we do have conversations with our regional partners about all the opportunities to build hotels or other opportunities to bring casinos that happen to be on river boats on the land. So we continue to have those discussions. I think there continues to be an excitement about putting new capital into Las Vegas. In fact, there was an article I saw this morning about the Caesars organization, putting over $1 billion in the Las Vegas over the past couple of years. So that should get you and our investors excited about the opportunities that could be presented in that market. But I think '25 is very similar to what we saw in '24 and even '23 that operators continue to reinvest themselves and they need capital to create new experiences.

Our next question comes from Rich Hightower of Barclays.

And congrats again on the new partnership with Cain and Eldridge. Let me go back to the guidance really quickly, if you don't mind. David, I think you mentioned in the prepared comments certain loan fundings are not included in the AFFO number as presented last time. Can you walk us through what precisely is included, dollars, cadence timing, et cetera? Just so we have kind of a clear understanding of funding throughout the year as currently contemplated?

Yes, as in the comments or the specific [indiscernible] we do not include in guidance any funding or development funding that does not have an identified draw schedule. And as we sit here today, we're continuing to fund of Great Wolf Northeast, or funding Canyon Ranch Austin. And [indiscernible] $15 million, $20 million a month or so is that Great Wolf Northeast completes in May of '25, Canon [indiscernible] sometime in '26. Citrus Farms is working through later this year or early next year.

So it's -- there's not a specific number per month because it's all based on the timing of the draws and the amount of the draws and then obviously, as the developments are completed, we have a construction [indiscernible] construction loans outstanding.

Okay. That's actually helpful. And just to be clear, Venetian PPG funding is kind of separate from that. Is that -- what's the timing on that one as well? If I had that correct it?

We announced a total commitment of $700 million. They drew $400 million in 2024, and that is all converted to rent and embedded in the lease. Now they have the option, but not the obligation to draw an incremental $300 million of that commitment over time. And there goes to the budgets right now on the plans. And as John talked about putting a lot of new -- you may have seen a lot of new restaurants, a lot of new experiences in the Venetian and so they're working through if and when they would draw that incremental $300 million.

And needless to say Rich, given that they have not fervently committed to using any of that. None of that is in guidance.

Okay. That's very helpful. And then 1 last kind of small one. And I think you guys have addressed this on prior calls, but just so we all have it clear. You do see some pretty swing pretty big swings in I guess, the change in allowance for credit losses in the income statement, obviously, a noncash number, most of the time. We hope there aren't any actual credit losses. But just, David, help us understand the drivers that quarter-to-quarter swing?

Yes. It's David Kieske here. I can take that. So in the fourth quarter, most of the allowance is really driven [indiscernible] really driven by Moody's, which is the service provider that we use to help us model out and project future losses. In the fourth quarter, their economic scenario, which is scenario condition and a requirement of the model and the banks are using similar forward projections. They were kind of forecasting a higher for longer interest rate, potential tariffs and some headwinds economically and that was going through our projections. So that was really the driver of the increase in the allowance in the fourth quarter [indiscernible].

[indiscernible] another way of saying it is it was more general than specific to any [indiscernible]?

Yes, similar more macro as opposed to [indiscernible].

You get in a large risk for asking about CECL. .

I know we had addressed CECL on prior calls, but I just -- I think it's been a little while. So again, I appreciate the color.

Our next question comes from Jim Kammert of Evercore.

I know David, obviously, guidance excludes new capital markets activities, but given the $1.3 billion that's rolling or maturing, I should say, of notes in Q2. How is VICI leaning right now, repay a part of that or a reasonable and where what would the cost be?

I think I answered to your question on break a little bit. Yes, we've got a main maturity is June maturity, and we don't think any assumptions in guidance on those refis, but we're seeing on a 10-year kind of [ 120, 125 ] spread over the 10 year, which I know was a [indiscernible] earlier this morning, but obviously bounces around. So if you look at mid 5.5% to 5.75% area for a 10-year refinancing.

Great. And then obviously, early innings with the new relationship with Todd [indiscernible] and otherwise, but has his relationship or ownership of Chelsea help give you a little inside the kind of view as to how those owners and consortiums think about attracting additional capital and opportunity for VICI?

Well, certainly, in the specific case at Chelsea, one as is true of so many of the Premier League teams. They're very focused on making sure that they are doing everything they can to maximize game day revenue and obviously, maximizing game day revenue involves making sure you have the optimal stadium and to a great degree now increasingly, the right surroundings around the stadium.

We've had, I would say, [indiscernible] very preliminary chats with Todd around their vision for what [indiscernible] become in terms of its placement in London, but not much more than that.

Our next question comes from Smedes Rose of Citi. .

I just -- I wanted to ask you if maybe you could provide any sort of update on the licensing process that seems to be kind of lurching forward in New York for full-on casinos? And just kind of as part of that, if your MGM property were not selected for a license, does it just remain as essentially a slots-only facility? Or is there some other change that would take place?

Steve, it's John. I probably should be asking you what you think about the New York process. Look, I think there's news almost every day. We're sitting here in New York altogether. I read an article yesterday about one of the groups that is potentially bidding on the license. It does seem like there's progress being made on all the different steps it takes to win 1 of the 3 licenses. It does still seem like they're shooting for a decision at the end of this year. But your guess is good as mine. .

Same with the last part of your question, you asked about the MGM property at Empire City. We're excited about that, that group has put together a very healthy bid for the full license. I don't know the exact answer to your question. Should they not receive 1 of the 3 licenses, how that ultimately plays out with the slot facility. But I think as this whole process plays out with the gaming commission, how they make their decisions, we'll continue to learn more, but it does seem like there's more progress in quarter 1, '25 than there has been in a while, but it's hard to determine ultimately when the final stage is.

Okay. And then in terms of the One Beverly Hills and maybe this could make any difference in terms of your loan to them. But I just wanted to ask you, I mean, Los Angeles has a lot of luxury retail, readily available, has a lot of luxury housing and has a lot of luxury hotels. And I guess, from their perspective, what, I guess, has given me confidence that there's incremental demand for more multimillion dollar condominiums and more channels and whatnot. And just I don't know maybe that's sort of a dumb question, but I'm just kind of wondering how they're thinking about the demand factor there?

Yes. I think -- and I'm [indiscernible], that he's going to need to speak here in a moment because she actually has experience to Aman. I think Smedes, to answer your question, we really have to do all we can to help everyone understand the brand power of [indiscernible] obviously, is not a public company. There are no Aman's within hotel REIT portfolios. But if you -- I would just do a price check on the rates that Aman gets location by location around the world because Aman is in a lead of its own. Right Samantha?

Yes, I think just to add a point, you're talking ultra high-end monthly. It truly is above and beyond really what you see almost anywhere else in the world, and they've been able to do it in cities throughout the world. And I think that's what they'll bring to Beverly Hills, which I don't think they have up here.

Yes. And it's so much to the credit of the Cain team. They were able to get entitlement and permitting for that 17.5 in comparable acres for incremental hotel supply in Beverly Hills and some of you may have seen over the course of 2024 that LVMH was unable to get entitlements and permitting for [indiscernible] on Rodeo Drive. There is supply there, to your point, Smedes, but again, I would -- we will do all we can to help everyone understand the very, very differentiated position of Aman in every market in the world that it operates, in which it operates.

Our next question comes from David Katz of Jefferies.

I wanted to ask a little bigger picture question. First, congratulations on your announcement of the new partnership. But in that -- putting it all in context, the discussion we have with investors frequently is around thinking about underwriting the various aspects of your TAM. And obviously, a deal like this adds to your TAM in some ways, right? But to an earlier question about the duration of the capital you have out now and how we sort of think about that strategically, any potential expansions embedded in your current portfolio and how we think about underwriting those versus a new casino partner to be named later, so to speak, right? They're across the spectrum, and I'd love to add your -- just your thoughts and comments around how we underwrite those or whether it's straight math?

Yes. It's a great question, David. And one of the ways in which I'll answer it is that when we think about TAM, we really also think about the -- I'm trying to come up with an acronym on the spot, and I'm not going to do it, David. I was going to say like the TAR, the total -- the total amount of the relationship, that's not very good, is it. So what I'm getting at is [indiscernible], I'll do better next time I promise. The -- when we -- as we began to get to know Cain and Eldridge, we very quickly developed very high conviction that this has the potential to be a multibillion-dollar relationship over time. We do believe there can be opportunities within that relationship for us to ultimately own permanent real estate, but also the opportunity to continue as I -- in my answer to Caitlin indicated, the opportunity to have numerous funding opportunities and thus opportunities to continue to roll our capital behind their initiatives.

And so -- we are very, very focused on widening our TAM without diluting our quality, our quality of relationship and our quality of investment. And again, [indiscernible] by developing these kinds of relationships to give our stockholders participation in what we think is some of the most compelling place making taking place right now.

Our next question comes from John Kilichowski of Wells Fargo.

Maybe if I could just circle back on that last comment, Ed, you said that eventually owning some of the real estate and the deals with Cain and Eldridge, could you specify specifically maybe what types of real estate you'd be looking to own here. Obviously, in this project, it's multiuse, we have the hotel, the residences, the retail, the food and beverage. Just curious what you would be considering owning versus not owning?

Yes. And just to be clear, and as I indicated earlier in my remarks, we are not optimistic that we would eventually own any real estate within One Beverly Hills. This is real estate. -- that if and when it trades, it will trade at [indiscernible] values. And also is real estate of a nature that doesn't exactly fit our investment criteria, which obviously mainly does involve net lease. But beyond that, as you look across the Eldridge and Cain portfolio, I think you will see, again, citing that really good slide in the transaction deck, businesses -- current businesses within -- Cain and Eldridge that involved real estate is very, very much resembles real estate that we already own and I would cite the example of Chelsea Peers as the type of real estate we already own and are very excited to continue to invest in. .

And I have one thing to that as well. Creating partnerships like we have with Cain and Eldridge also opens other potential partners that are around the world that are seeing what we are doing with our capital to help other experiential companies grow. I mean we've just made this announcement, and there are folks that are reaching out saying, a very interesting way that you are getting involved with that project. We'd like to talk to you about X, Y and Z.

So don't underestimate that as we continue to build these world-class developers and partners that it also opens new ones for us and doesn't keep us as, hey, you're that you're just that gaming rate, which we love casino gaming, but it really has opened the funnel for conversations about other opportunities for us around the world.

Yes. And I just want to build on what John is saying, too, that there's actually another dimension of partnership in what we've just announced and though it maybe not have been visible in our releases. This marks the fourth time in which we will have partnered with JPMorgan in participating, working together on a capital structure for a very compelling development. And as you all know, we are a very small team. We have over 25% of the company sitting at this table and that's 7 people. And so we are always very focused on opportunities to force multiply what we are able to achieve at VICI. And we're really, really appreciated the partnership that David and his team have formed with Brian Baker and his team at JPMorgan when it comes to identifying opportunities to work together and put our capital to work in opportunities that might not have otherwise been available to us.

Got it. I appreciate that. And then maybe jumping back to one of the first comments you made today was just on the pipeline really picking up. And I'm curious on the other side of that equation. How has the competitive landscape change? I feel like across most of our earnings discussions this quarter, we've heard competition has certainly spiked from the private side. I'm curious if you're seeing the same?

It's been the same since we started the company. This is a space, particularly the casino space, where there's a lot of interest. There's great operators, there's great real estate. The buildings perform like no other in the experiential sector. So as we look at any opportunity, we go in with our eyes open that there's others that are looking at this. And that's why we -- we pride ourselves on building deep relationships in the ties and grow the company in that fashion. So I wouldn't say we see an increase in competition. I'd say it's always been there. We want to continue to be out there as well.

Our next question comes from John DeCree of CBRE.

You talked a lot of ground, but maybe 2 more. One on the casino M&A environment, I think we discussed it a little bit earlier pointing to volatility in the 10-year, but Ed or John or David, curious if you have any thoughts as to what else is kind of influencing I guess, I would say, the lack of M&A in the space, whether it involves real estate or not? It seems like it's still kind of quiet. So curious if you kind of see any other factors in there that are maybe causing that?

I don't -- John, it's nice to talk to. You hit on a few. Again, in my remarks earlier, while I was answering one question, I just talked about Las Vegas. And -- if you're an operator in Las Vegas and you're performing the way you're performing, you have to say, well, where else would I like to operate and you land on a rather own this asset, I can continue to invest in it. There are new customers coming through my door every day, and I'm going to just make this a better place. I mean, the results that you saw out of Las Vegas, I mean, wins results were absolutely incredible. We saw -- there's incredible results coming out of the buildings that we own.

So John, I don't see a lot of trading in Las Vegas at this time. When it comes to the regionals, I think it's just a matter of they like operating those businesses right now. There could be some trades over time. And if there are [indiscernible] we'll see if there's an opportunity for us.

And John, I'll just add to that, but I think when it comes to regional gaming, we're in a period where investing in regional gaming has to be done with precision, market by market, asset by asset. We're obviously seeing supply growth across much of the U.S. regional landscape. And I think if you're going to invest incremental capital in regional gaming, you want to be highly conscious of new competition and new supply and what that would mean for same-store sales at existing assets. So again, it's not solely a case of, well, what's available. It's also a case of what do you really want to own. Again, we are very much in this for the long term, and thus, we are going to be by nature selective.

That's helpful. Maybe one more on the discussion of kind of Aman Hotels as a good example. A lot of those ultra-high-end international hotels. Curious your thoughts on how you think about expanding a bit more internationally. Obviously, there's some in Canada, but would you go overseas kind of in an investment or lending capacity like you've done in California recently. So opportunities where maybe not real estate ownership, but [indiscernible] else you would structure it in some international markets or something like that on the table? How kind of far have you explored those kind of lending and international market opportunities?

Yes, this is Samantha. So we definitely would and we actually do have some lending activity in the U.K. and Scotland right now with [ Cabot ]. And we've done -- our internal team has done a lot of work around really mapping the world and where we can invest both from a lending perspective as well as an acquisition perspective, understanding any tax leakage and really looking at what jurisdictions will be most compelling for us. So that when we look at our TAM, we're really knowledgeable about that. So the answer to that question is yes, we absolutely can and would.

Our next question comes from Chris Darling of Green Street.

Question on the gaming side. It seems like there's been a lot more capital flowing into the historic horse racing segment of the market. A couple of projects, I think, have been announced in New Hampshire. Is this a segment of the market that's interesting to you? And how would you think about sort of the opportunities and risks involved?

Nice to speak to you. Yes, if you're asking, would we make an investment into a race track particularly most of these investments are adding some form of new gambling to that investment. So whether it's historical racing machines that are being added in certain markets, Other markets are adding just simple Class III slot machines and some, as we heard earlier today talking about Empire City, the ability to turn a [indiscernible] into a full fledge casino. So to answer your question, there are all areas that we would have interest in placing investments if we have the right partners, if it underwrite structure along the way. So we continue to study the markets that you mentioned and other markets that could -- as Ed mentioned, there could be some new markets that open up over time, and we'd be interested in those as well.

All right. Fair enough. And then just one more quickly for me. Curious if you could walk through the rationale from a pure gaming standpoint to sell the Canadian operations to IGP. And then I think it would be helpful as well to understand a little bit more about who IGP is kind of their scale, where they own future transitions. Anything that you could add?

Yes. We were very excited. We had a great relationship with the management team and the owners of Pure, but we are excited to form our new relationship with few trials that have [indiscernible] that have come together to form this group. We're learning more about their interest their capacity to grow their business. That was one of the things that we're excited about, not only then acquiring the operations of the assets we own in Canada, but also our ability to continue to partner not only in Canada, but there could be opportunities all over the world.

So the more we learn about each other, this was our first opportunity to work together, the more I think you'll see us grow with them over time should the right opportunities come about.

And Chris, just to make sure I understood your question clearly, I want to clarify that we didn't sell anything. The prior owner of Pure, On-X, a Toronto-based PE firm sold the OpCo to IGP, and not only are we excited about IGP being our new partner on the Alberta assets, it also signifies that [indiscernible] are marketable, that there are buyers for Opcos, which I think there has been some questioning around, but this is a clear example of gaming Opcos and OpCos having value.

Got it. And yes, that point was understood, Ed, but I appreciate the clarification.

Thank you. At this time, I will turn the call back to Ed Pitoniak for any further remarks.

Thanks, Alex, and thanks to all of you. We know you've got -- many of you have another call coming up here just momentarily. So we wish you the best, and thanks again for attending this morning. Bye for now.

Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.