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Wonderla Holidays Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Wonderla Holidays Limited Q1 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call hosted by ICICI Securities. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Adhidev Chattopadhyay. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good evening, everyone. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I'd like to welcome everyone to the Wonderla Holidays Limited Q1 FY '23 call. From the management, as always, we have with us Mr. Arun Chittilappilly, the Managing Director; and Mr. Satheesh Seshadri, the Chief Financial Officer. I would like to congratulate the management for a great quarter. I'd now like to hand over the floor to them for their opening remarks. Over to you.
Thank you for that introduction. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us. This is Arun, the Managing Director of the company. Let me say that the first quarter is like a milestone quarter for us as we've seen a blockbuster result after like almost 2 years of the pandemic. It gives us a lot of confidence that we're going to come back stronger after the pandemic. This quarter has also proven that our customers and generally people, in general, are willing to go out and experiment with outdoor activities and fun, and so that's a strong business proposition for us. As a result, we have witnessed the highest-ever quarterly revenue EBITDA, PAT since inception. We have experienced some truly phenomenal footfall, growing by some 24% compared to FY '20, our last normal pre-pandemic quarter. Now we are entering a new dawn of value creation and growth ahead of us. The financial highlights. Coming to the financial numbers for the quarter, we registered revenues of INR 152 crores, clocking in a growth of 26% when compared to INR 121 crores.
[Technical Difficulty] Hello, sir. Yes, sir, we lost your audio in between.
Yes. Okay. Yes. So our revenues have been at INR 152 crores, clocking a growth of 26% compared to INR 121 crores in Q1 FY '20. Our EBITDA has grown by 30% to INR 94 crores compared to INR 72 crores for the same period in FY '20. Our margin is at 62%, and PAT for Q1 FY '23 stood at INR 64 crores, growing by 53% compared to INR 42 crores in Q1 FY '20. Operating highlights. Demand for leisure activities has resumed with a vengeance. As you all know, our customers continue to view us as a great way to spend a day of leisure and providing this through their surging footfall in each sequential quarter. We also have had an outstanding performance from our Resort division. We had almost more than 80% occupancy, the highest ever that we've done. We've also seen footfall growth across all the parks. While some portion of the footfall could be attributed to pent-up demand, a great part has also come from a fundamental demand, which continues every year, and supported by compelling events and strategic marketing activation initiatives that we have implemented to drive demand. These measures and our continuous focus on customer sensitivity has contributed to some of these numbers. We also focused on special events and plans during all quarters in the last 2 years. And some of these included are DJ events, Rhythm night, summer fiesta, Holi, those kind of things. Secondly, we've also offered special park plus offerings and some of the new rides also we've launched and that has attracted leisure seekers. We have implemented a lot of innovative marketing campaigns, mostly digital, to increase walk-in and group base footfalls. These initiatives have reached to a large number of customers and built a strong demand for us and with very less marketing costs. Backed by all these efforts, we have collected footfall of roughly about 11.18 lakhs in Q1 compared to 8.99 lakhs in Q1 FY '20. These strong numbers we have crossed all pre-COVID markers for footfalls, and I'm happy to say that we are moving in the right direction. We have 2 new -- 2 projects, as you may know. We have -- I'm pleased to inform that we have signed an MOU with Odisha government for development of an amusement park in the state capital city of Bhubaneswar. For this development, we have leased 50.6 acres of land for 90 years in the Kumarbasta Village within Khorda District of Bhubaneswar. We are planning to develop this project with an investment of less than INR 125 crores, and this will be done through internal accruals. This should ultimately expand our top line and bottom line. The other project that we have is Chennai, and that has been put on hold for now. I mean it's not on hold, it's just that we're waiting for the government to revert on our request of waving LBT tax for our project. We are reasonably sure that this will happen, but we don't know the time line. It could happen in this quarter. And yes, so that's pretty much it. Thank you all for your continued support. We look forward to seeing you at our parks, and do -- we'll go over to the question-answer session.
[Operator Instructions] We take the first question from the line of T.V.K Vivekkumar from Bestpals Research.
Great to see strong set of numbers. So first question is, this Chennai thing, if at all, we get the permission, how many years will it take? And how do you finance? And the second one is, can you repeat this kind of numbers this year? Or how much of it is retained and how much of it is [ revenge ] and how much of it is attributable to your marketing and increased whatever sales efforts that you are doing at your end? And I know you can't predict next year, but assuming that no COVID and all these things are out of the way in terms of outdoor thing, are you sure that we can grow these numbers even by small amounts in terms of footfalls with our marketing efforts?
Yes, I think we can grow this business quite a bit. Like I always said that we expect at least 1 million per park per year. And so we have not reached that number yet. So I think there is definitely headroom for all of our parks to grow. If you see our footfall numbers doing growth, Kochi and Hyderabad has shown almost 38% or 39% growth in footfalls whereas Bangalore has shown, I think, 12% or 15%, I'm not sure of the exact number, but this shows that we have still not reached that 1 million mark per park. So I think there's definitely a lot of headroom. Chennai project, if we are -- if we get all the approvals done, I think we should be able to start next year. And we will do most of the work with our internal accruals, and we might take some debt on.
Sorry to ask the same question. How confident are you in marketing efforts? Is there anything else that you're thinking in terms of what you can do to increase your footfalls because that was a problem for the last decade if you saw parks across all parks?
I think our parks are running full pretty much the first quarter. I don't think we could have had more footfalls than this. It's very -- we are running pretty much full throughout. Especially May, we were completely sold out. Maybe in June, we can have a little more footfalls in the following year. So I think growing on top of this footfall for next year, I don't know how much we can grow, but we'll see. We will have to look at maybe price hikes which we are already planning to do. And -- but I think for our existing parks, I think we're in a very good place.
We take the next question from the line of Mr. Aditya Shah from Vikram Advisory Services.
Congratulations, Arun, on the good set of numbers. My questions are regarding 2, 3 things, which is, what is the expected free cash flow that you plan to generate for the next -- this year or probably coming 2, 3 years? And second is regarding, let's say, if you are not taking any debt for the Chennai project or -- sorry, not raising any capital for the Chennai project or the Odisha project, do we have any plans for raising any capital in the next 2, 3 years because your outlay would be around INR 400 crores? That's what I think. And the third point is that the last ROE of 15% we touched probably in 2015 or '16, do you think that going forward, we would be able to maintain an ROE between 15% and 18% in the future? Or once it touches 15%, 18% and then we go down again because of the CapEx and then we go up again or when do you think...
We don't look at the ROE in that sense because this is a very high CapEx-heavy investment. So we don't look -- we don't have a benchmark number like this, but I think we are happy with anything more than 12%. And I think Satheesh can give more this thing on the numbers.
I will take one by one, sir. First one is on the cash generation. See, in a year, we generate about INR 100 crores cash, okay, on the surplus, on the EBITDA side. And for the investments in Kochi -- pardon, the investment in the Bhubaneswar and Chennai Park, okay, we will be requiring a total investment of INR 125 crores for Odisha and about INR 220 crores for Chennai if we have to go ahead with the...
And over a 2.5-year period also.
Over a 2 years period. So in that 2 years, we will generate about INR 200 crores. And we have a cash surplus now in form of investment and cash of about INR 200 crores. So we will try to do as much possible with internal accruals on the investment front. This is number two. Number three is, see, the ROI is actually going to be difficult for you to gauge because, why that shift happened? Because the Hyderabad park came into act, okay? So now if Chennai and the Odisha park is going to come, again, the ROI is going to reduce because first 3, 4 years, it takes at least 4 years to pick up the business, okay? So this is where it is, number one. Number two, we are also having -- when we did the Ind AS migration, we also have a land revaluation of about INR 300 crores, INR 400 crores, INR 385 crores, we had a revaluation. So this will hit on the return, okay? So my return is going to keep on -- while we are going to add the parks, the returns are going to fluctuate.
So broadly speaking then, what is our intention of adding parks on an annual or a biannual basis? Because just to have an idea, currently, we have 2 in plan. That's what we know. But considering the capital outlay being around INR 300 crores per park going forward if at all, we plan any new one, let's say, if we don't have a government deal as in Odisha, it's all, -- my question is just regarding this because it's not clear that what is the ROE that we would want to make on a continuous basis because, as investors, that is something that anybody would be looking at very closely.
It's hard for us to predict an ROE number. All we can say...
What is your expectation as in, what you want to do? As you said, 12% and above. That's what you said.
Yes, I think something along those lines is what we hope to do. But anything more than that, we, obviously, think it's a bonus.
See, ROE, again, it's not a static number, okay? With the business -- we talk about the business, we see the potential in business is there, okay? When you go by the potential in business, okay, when the top line grows, automatically your ROE is going to go up. Let's see the potential rather than -- that's why we are going for CapEx and new parks. See, we have to grow our top line in 2 aspects. One is leveraging or shifting the assets of the existing parks, number one. Number two is, as Arun has said correctly, we will try to achieve 1 million footfall which we were doing before. So with 3 parks, we will try to record 30 lakhs footfall, okay? That is point number one, on the existing asset. With the new assets coming in, my top line is going to grow. So our first approach will be, how you will reinvest and improve the top line, okay? So then automatically, ROI, ROE or EBITDA is already a consequent of what you're going to do. It is not a rigid factor. So we are seeing a potential in this business, and we see there is abundant opportunity in the north of India. So we will be slowly moving into newer parks. And that's the one way of improving your top line.
So definitely, there's ample opportunity. There's absolutely no doubt. You are in a great business.
When you're in an expansion stage, you don't talk much on the ROE now. Yes. It is only a consequent approach.
We take the next question from the line of Gaurav Gandhi from Glorytail Capital Management.
Congratulations on the excellent set of numbers. My first question is, sir, do you allow any movie shooting or marriages to happen in the park? Or do you have any kind of facility or planning to develop any?
Yes, we do. We have a lot of movies, which are shot in our parks and weddings, especially in our resorts, not in the park as much, but the weddings are usually happening in the resorts. It's not a very big market for us, the wedding market, but we do get a lot of -- especially nowadays, people want dramatic scenery or photos. So because of that, we do get a lot.
We take the next question from the line of [ Darsheel Zaveri ] from Crown Capital.
First of all, congratulations on a great set of numbers. I just wanted to know, so what is our long-term maybe 2, 3 years plan? Like this number of INR 150 crores, nearly, as you said, if you want more footfalls, so that -- so over the period of time, how much would this be sustainable or what would be your year-end target or maybe FY '25 target? Could you elaborate it a bit? Could you give some guidance on that front?
It's hard to give guidance because we will have new parks by FY '25, at least 1 new park, maybe even 2. But 1 -- so based on that, I think we'll have to look at numbers, and Satheesh may be able to share something like a rough calculation, but I don't think...
Our short-term objective, as we -- as Arun had already suggested, it's actually broken into 2 parts. One is the existing park, which is Bangalore, Hyderabad and Kochi, where we will try to achieve 1 million of footfall, okay? Now we are at around 25 lakhs. That is 2.5 million. Our aim is to go to 3 million footfall with these 3 parks at a minimum level, okay? This is number one. Number two, expansions. When the expansion happened in Chennai and Odisha, it will add up -- for the first few years, it could add up 1 million more of a footfall. So we are talking about 3 million to 4 million footfall in 2025.
Okay, sir. And I'm assuming with our increased capacity, we would also be planning to raise prices. So the next year in quarter 1, we should be better by this number?
Our prices will go up, yes, for sure. Pricing in this year, we have not -- it's gone up only about 2%, 3% compared to FY '20. There is headroom for us to grow pricing which we'll be doing.
Normally, the top line increases on account of both volume and price, I think we agree with that. And now our focus coming off 2 years of COVID, our immediate focus was how to improve the footfall and improve the demand. We were focusing on that. Now that we have achieved the first step, we will be looking at the pricing. Pricing, we have been doing judiciously. If you have seen the pricing for last 1 year, 1.5 years, if you have followed our pricing, we have slowly improved the pricing and brought it just above the pre-COVID level, okay? Now we have to work on the inflation part of it.
Okay, I get that. And can I ask more question, sir?
Yes, sure.
So could you just explain a bit briefly how does your project economics work? Like it takes around 2 years to build and then 3 to 4 years to breakeven payback period. Could there be some kind of small guide -- explanation on how does the project work?
Our new project is -- yes, sorry, you can…
I will tell, sir. I will answer this. See, let's take an example of Hyderabad Park, okay? In the second year of operations, we have registered EBITDA positive, okay? Our immediate focus will be how we can achieve EBITDA positive in the immediate year, that is second year or so, and then take up the revenue at the top -- at the higher levels, okay? That's how we work on. So the -- if you see -- number one. Number two, we have to be appreciative of the fact that if I have to do a park now and do 5 years down the line, it's going to cost me at least 2 or 3x the cost, okay? We are missing out that, okay? So if I develop the park in Hyderabad at around INR 250 crores, the same park for me to develop is now INR 350 crores, INR 400 crores. So I think there is an inherent project cost, which is going to go up that we have to -- so ideally, the growth has to be from the existing parks and the newer projects which we are going to develop. And the unit economics is get the EBITDA positive in the second year.
[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from the line of Mr. [ Ron Sen ], individual investor.
Arun, congratulations for a great set of numbers.
Sorry to interrupt, sir. One moment. Yes, please, go ahead.
Arun, are well…
I am sorry to interrupt, sir. There is disturbance on our end.
It is clear, I guess. Can we go ahead?
Hello, Mr. Sen?
Yes, yes. Shall I go ahead?
Yes.
Okay. Arun, are we looking at being an operator of some of the [indiscernible] parks of India, is there a model you'd like to explore, given your expertise of operations and having an in-house team? So some kind of a revenue share model or an asset-light strategy in the future?
Yes, we're exploring that. Yes, we've not -- I mean it's something that we are definitely exploring. We had requests from other parks to do this, but we haven't found the right fit yet. Whenever we find it, we will definitely look at that also.
Okay. Okay. And my second question, sir, any other vectors of growth that Wonderla is exploring? I understand, during COVID, I think you did a bit on the food delivery or food -- or something on the food space, but I think that was rolled back. But anything in the online gaming space or maybe increasing the resort offering given the 3 largest parks that you have, you have enough space left over there? So any thoughts over there?
Yes. So we are -- this year, we're going to do some experiments on our resort project, and we're going to expand our existing resort in Bangalore in a few different directions in terms of adding more things to do for people, adding more thrill and adventure element to the whole resort and probably re-theming and redoing some of our F&B. So those kind of things we're going to do this year. And based on how that does and how it improves our occupancy and revenues of the resort in Bangalore, then we'll take a call on doing a similar or maybe a larger one in Hyderabad and we can do a similar one in Kochi. We can do one in Chennai. We can do one in Bhubaneswar. So that's obviously something that we can also look at. For the resort, we are looking at one vector, then we are definitely looking at digital and online offerings for like how can we make Wonderla relevant in the digital space in terms of whether it's gaming or virtual reality and augmented reality, which are, I mean, something that we've already worked on in some fashion in our parks, right? But we are obviously looking out to see how well we can use it and how it can augment our revenues.
Okay, okay. Just one last question. Any update on the Goa state project?
So this year, we have not really looked at other -- I mean we are just concentrating on Chennai and Odisha, but we are also talking to a few other state governments. We are definitely -- we want to build a pipeline of projects that we can slowly go out and exhibit. So I mean, we always -- we are definitely talking to Goa. We're talking to Gujrat. We're talking to a bunch of different states, and whenever there is some announcement, we'll definitely keep you posted.
We take the next question from the line of Mr. [ Rahul Jajoo from R Consultant ].
Congratulations, sir, for a good set of numbers. My first question is, when you say Chennai and Odisha coming in, how much revenue you are expecting from these parks? And a follow-up question to this, what do you think about the spike in demand? Is this a pent-up demand or do we expect similar growth in future?
So the park in Odisha, we are doing a light version. So we are going to spend about between INR 100 crores and INR 120 crores there. And our ticket price also will be probably about 60% of what we charge in our larger parks. So maybe about INR 600 -- INR 600, INR 700. So that's the way that pricing will work. And if we get about roughly about 0.5 million visitors in our first year, so you can do the math on what is the revenue potential. And then that will keep growing, and we should get to again about maybe 800,000, 8 lakhs to about 10 lakh visitors there. 8 lakhs is what I think is more realistic in a place like Bhubaneswar. So that is what we are gunning for, but these are rough calculations. Chennai will be a bigger park like our existing parts in Bangalore and -- so you can do the math from there. What else -- that was it right? That was your question, right?
Yes, yes. And sir, my second question is like as we all can see inflation is coming in and everyone is comparing things with inflation. So do you feel like it's going to impact our business also?
Not really. We were actually -- if you think about it, we've actually increased the price of our F&B and ticket quite a bit in this year itself. We're going to take further price increases. And because we don't have a direct comparable for our offering, and I think pricing has always been one of our strong points. We can increase our prices and not worry about decline in footfall. So we are definitely looking at further price hike.
Okay, okay. And sir, my very last question. What is our current overall capacity utilization in different parks? And what is our current capacity utilization?
It's hard to predict that right now because our capacity is theoretical capacity and what we can actually keep -- but theoretically, we can have 10,000 visitors per day per park, but we are probably at about 5,000 or, I don't know. What is our Q1 average, Satheesh?
Sir, in the year, we do about 25 lakhs.
No, no, I'm saying this Q1, what will be the average?
The Q1 average will be more than about INR 4,000 -- 4,000.
Yes, so we can still add more people if we want.
[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from the line of Mr. T.V.K Vivekkumar from Bestpals Research.
Arun, during the COVID, you've just mentioned that we are working on how to create a brand awareness even when visitors outside in their life, like when they're not in the park. So are we thinking anything to do in those terms? Like you said that we want to be relevant through the -- try to be relevant more times than when they are just inside the park we are trying something on that like you said or I don't know exactly remember what you said it, but during the COVID, you mentioned that we are thinking very deeply on these things. So anything on that?
Actually, we did that, and we've been very successful on that. That's why we got this kind of footfalls, right? I think the way we do our marketing is completely different now. I can't give you too much detail. All I can tell you is that we do mostly digital marketing, and we do very precise targeting of people who are even thinking about going out somewhere. And we are able to target them very accurately and give ads and offers. So that's how our marketing is working now. So that definitely -- so if people are thinking about an outing, we should be in their consideration. So we do a lot of things for that, too.
We take the next question from the line of [ Meet Jagnani ] from PS Associates.
Congratulations for a very good set of numbers. So my first question is, if this Chennai project does not materialize in say, 1 or 2 quarters, so are we looking at any other second option? Or we will go ahead only with Odisha for next 2 years?
We are definitely looking at other options also. Like I mentioned, we are always looking out for new projects. So if Chennai does not work out, we look at something else, I think. There are always at least 2, 3 projects in our pipeline. We want to keep it like that, and we are trying to grow that pipeline now. I think there are lots of opportunities and a lot of states are looking at investment in the tourism sector. So we are talking to a lot of state governments to see whether we can tie up and do new projects. So that helps us reduce our CapEx also.
Okay. And the second question is regarding price hike. Are you looking at the price hike across all the parks? Or is it any given one park?
I can't tell you, I mean, but definitely we are looking at price hikes across the board at some point in second half of this year, maybe not this quarter, but next quarter, definitely we can look at more.
We take the next question from the line of [ Avishri Shah ], Individual Investor.
Congratulations on the good set of numbers. Sir, I have a couple of questions. Can you put some light on the park-wise performance? And I see you are frequently adding rides in the park. So what is your plan ahead on that?
We always keep adding rides to the park. It's something that we've been doing for a very long time. Every year, we roughly spend about 10% of our top line on adding attractions to our park. So that is definitely one thing. Then if you look at our footfalls, I think highest growth in footfall happened in this quarter for Hyderabad. So they're almost 36% growth in footfall. And I think 34% growth in Kochi. And what is the percentage growth in Bangalore, 7%?
I will tell, sir. So Hyderabad, we got 39% growth in footfall.
39%.
Yes. 46% growth in revenue. And in Kochi, we got 38% growth in footfall and 34% growth in revenue. And in Bangalore, it was 7% growth in footfall and 12% growth in revenue. So all the 3 parks…
Bangalore is already running almost to very full even before COVID, but there is a lot of headroom for us to grow in the other 2 parks, and that has happened, for this thing.
Okay. And so how frequently you keep adding as in on quarterly, monthly basis or yearly?
Every year, we'll add something, yes.
Okay. And one more. In last quarter, you mentioned asset-light model for the new parks. So how much pricing we will be keeping for that park?
It's about 50% of our full-sized park price.
We take the next question from the line of Mr. Anil Jain from Equity Passion Capital.
Congratulations on the good set of numbers. I wanted to know if you could throw some light [indiscernible] your business?
I'm sorry, I can't hear you properly.
I just wanted to know seasonality in our results in terms of divided into quarter 1, 2, 3, 4 in terms of football and revenue?
Quarter 1 and 3 are stronger quarters. Quarter 2 and 4 tend to be slightly weaker. But that's changing now with our digital marketing, I think. But of course, quarter 2 will be weaker because of the rains and opening of schools and colleges that has an impact on footfall. So roughly that's how it works.
Can you give some -- out of 100, suppose 100 million footfall in the year, first quarter -- can it be allocated into 1, 2, 3 and 4 quarters?
I am sorry to interrupt, sir. We are losing your audio.
We can't hear you.
Mr. Anil, could be a little louder please.?
Yes, is it audible now?
Yes, better, please go ahead.
Suppose there is 100 number in a year, can you -- from your past experiences, how much is in quarter 1, quarter 2, quarter 3, and quarter 4?
Satheesh?
Yes, yes. See, the quarter 1 is the main quarter for us, and we record about 40% of our revenue during quarter 1, which is about 10 lakhs footfall is what -- 9 to 10 lakh footfalls we achieved during quarter 1. And this year, we have achieved a little more than that. And quarter 2 and quarter 4 together is about another 30% and quarter 3 is about 30%.
Quarter 3 is 30…
Quarter 3, if you take, it's again a season. So Q1 and Q3 will be good numbers, and Q2 and Q4 will be slightly moderated.
Okay. Two quarters combined, first and third, approximately 70%?
Yes, roughly about 65%, 70%, yes.
Okay. Got it. And in our Kochi park, footfall you had in pre-COVID level, but your revenue is not increasing in spite of that. What is the reason?
I can't hear you. Is there something wrong with your phone?
Is it audible now?
Not very clear.
Is it audible now?
Yes, better, please go ahead.
Yes, yes. In your Kochi park from pre-COVID levels, you've increased 38%, but your revenue has increased by 34%. Can you throw some light on that?
Sir, there's some group footfalls. Yes, there's some group footfall in that, sir.
Yes. See, the revenue or the ARPU is a factor of the job mix between retail and group footfall. If you take the Kochi park per se, you have -- for the -- I mean, 19-81 in Q1 FY '20 and now the footfall was 47 -- about 50-50 in group and walk-in. So that reduced the revenue to an extent.
[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from the line of [ Sagar Shah ] from Sunshine Capital.
Sir, can you share the details of tickets to non-tickets ARPU?
Yes. If you take ARPU, that 2 component, which is ATP, which is average ticket price is at 987 and SPH, which is a combination of F&B and retail, is about 313. Both put together, we recorded 1,300.
Okay, okay. And sir, you earlier mentioned like you have switched from traditional to digital marketing. So can you share like how much marketing expenditure we have every quarter against the revenue?
Our percentage of revenue to marketing expenditure is about 8%. Normally, 8% to 9% is our ratio.
Okay, okay. And sir, lastly, like how soon we can see the Chennai park coming in and taxation matter that can be resolved like?
Hopefully, within the next one quarter.
We take the next question from the line of Gaurav Gandhi from Glorytail Capital Management.
Arun, sir, can you share me your understanding regarding how many times the same person visits the parks? If he visits once, then whether he comes back or what is the time period?
Usually, we get the maximum of 2 visits per year as usually what we get. There are heavy users who come 10, 15x a year, but that's a very small number. Most of the people may be once or twice a year.
We take the next question from the line of Mr. Sachin from Swan Investments.
Congrats for a very good set of numbers. 2, 3 questions. One, in your presentation, you mentioned that you have a lot of success plan in existing parks itself. So are you looking at adding any more capacity or any more rides at the existing parks? And what type of CapEx we are looking there?
Yes, we are constantly going to add newer attractions. So we are planning some attractions to be added in Hyderabad. Right now, that is our smallest park and newest park that needs some additional rides because now we are getting huge crowds there also. So some expansion will be happening, some F&B expansion will be happening. Bangalore is going to see some expansion, so is Kochi. So all 3 parks current, this year, we'll see a lot of expansion and refurbishment.
Will it be minor CapEx, I mean like INR 15 crores, INR 20 crores, sir, all 3 put together?
Yes, it would be in that range. I don't want to spend too much.
Sure. Secondly, I think currently, your ratio of ticket to ticket is like 75-25 ballpark. So what is the ratio like globally? And is there a scope to improve this ratio substantially in favor of non-tickets?
Yes, of course. I mean the global ratio is 60-40, and we are at 75-25. So we should be able to get there soon. So that is part of the expansion that we are doing in our F&B also. We want to change our F&B offerings to more value-added offerings, again aided by our digital transformation, so we understand what kind of people are buying what kind of food. So that intelligence, we need to do some work on that. Hopefully, within the next year, we will -- that system will also be up and we should be able to give more varied offerings in F&B and merchandise. So a lot of expansion is happening in that area.
But do you think, over the medium to long term, we can also expand to the global benchmark? Or because of the...
Developed country metrics, we will not be able to achieve. I think a sign of developed country, then you have people spending as much as on food as they're spending on tickets. That happens, I think, in essence, -- maybe in India, it will take some more time. But I think eventually, yes, we will also get there. Not in the short term.
But over a 3 to 5 years?
In 3 to 5 years, we would want to increase it to, let's say, 70-30, but 60-40, I think will take probably little more time.
Sure, sure. And you also mentioned that typically at good times, your each of the park can do 1 million visitors every year. But you also mentioned that the capacity is much larger, like 10,000. We know the seasonal variations. But in general, what do you think you need to do, so that we can improve from this 1 million a year over a 2, 3 years to, say, like 1.4 million, 1.5 million per park?
So I think, yes, that means we'll have to utilize our capacity much more smartly, like how airlines use to do that, right? They will oversell some capacity or they will do -- some dynamic pricing, they will do. There's a lot of tech element that will come in if you want to do that and to improve your capacity. So we are also planning to do things like that, so that we are more efficient with our ticketing.
Yes. So this could be -- we can call it as revenue management or yield manage. So do we have a -- we are investing significantly in terms of some software or are we boosting the digital marketing?
We will giving some insight of what we are trying to do on that one. We are developing our own software for that. Our ticketing program completely bespoke because nobody else has that kind of software. So we have to develop it pretty much in-house. But of course, if you have elements of CRM and sales force automation, those kind of things. So we are building that entire stack, but it will take us about a year to finish it, and hopefully, we can also look at dynamic pricing for our ticketing also once that is up.
Sure. And just one last question, sir. We heard that in Goa, there is a new international airport coming in and the government wants to develop that more as an entertainment hub. So are we looking at any options near the new international airport Goa in terms of opening a new parks and exploring any opportunity there?
We are talking to the Goa government. We might be doing something there. But right now, it's just in discussion.
We take the next question from the line of Mr. Anuj Sharma from M3 Investments.
Arun, you did say that the Chennai outcome should be out within the quarter or so. So the probability of us getting it or not, it's a 0 or 1 scenario or there could be a scenario wherein lower LBT is considered and we will be fine with it?
I think it should get done most likely, I would say, with 80% confidence, it should get done, but then we don't know. Nothing is certain 100%. So that's the way we are looking at it. We are reasonably sure that it will go through.
Okay. At the terms which we have always intended for, correct?
Yes.
All right. All right. And this is based on your assessment as to how things are moving in the bureaucracy, correct?
Yes.
We take the next follow-up question from the line of Mr. [ Meet Jagnani ], PS Associates.
Arun, I just wanted to get an idea on your expense side. So could we maintain the current run rate of expenses? Or do we see any increase in expense, deducting depreciation, it will increase the new CapEx?
When we do new CapEx, obviously, the expenditure will be different. But on a steady-state, I think for our existing park, our expenditure, I think, should be in control.
We take the next question from the line of Neha Sharma from Pearl Global Investments.
Congratulations on a good set of numbers. I just have one question. Can you give some guidance on the footfall and the revenues for the coming quarters?
I don't think we can give revenue, but I think all we can say is we should do better than FY '20. We'll leave it at that. And I think -- but of course, we'll probably do a little better than that also. Yes, I think we are definitely hoping to beat FY '20 numbers by a considerable margin this year. That's what we're hoping to do.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for the day. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you all for attending our earnings call for the first quarter. Looking forward to more exciting news and updates from Wonderla Holidays. Thank you all for joining. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining, and you may now disconnect your lines.