Tips Industries Ltd
NSE:TIPSINDLTD

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Tips Industries Ltd
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Earnings Call Transcript

Earnings Call Transcript
2024-Q1

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Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call of Tips Industries Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Nikunj Jain from Orient Capital. Thank you and over to you, sir.

N
Nikunj Jain

Thank you, Carol. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I welcome you for the Q1 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call of Tips Industries Limited. To discuss this quarter business performance, we have from the management, Mr. Kumar Taurani, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Girish Taurani, Executive Director; and Mr. Sushant Dalmia, Chief Financial Officer.

Before we proceed with the call, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. For more details, kindly refer to the investor presentation and other filings that can be found on company's website.

Without further ado, I would like to hand over the call to the management for opening comments, and then we will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you and over to you, sir.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Q1 FY '24 earnings call of Tips Industries Limited. It's my pleasure to share with you the highlights of our performance during this quarter. At Tips Industries, we have been working hard to create -- hard to create and deliver high-quality music that resonates with our audience. Our efforts are yielding results.

The company has reported a revenue growth of 54% for Q1 FY '24 as compared to Q1 FY '23. We now have over 85.5 million subscribers on YouTube in Q1 FY '24. Our YouTube views were 48.3 billion. YouTube views have grown 132% compared to the same quarter last year. The Board has declared an interim dividend of INR 1 per share as part of our ongoing efforts to reward our shareholders.

With this, I will hand over the call to Sushant Dalmia, our CFO, to take you through the financial performance in detail. Over to you, Sushant.

S
Sushant Dalmia
executive

Thank you, sir and welcome, everyone, to our Q1 FY '24 earnings call. As you know at Tips Industries, we charge off the entire content cost in the quarter of release. We have followed this policy since the inception of the company and we will continue with this accounting policy in future as well. We find this to be the most prudent way of accounting for our business.

However, we continue to receive a lot of questions about the impact of our conservative accounting policies on our numbers from both our existing as well as potential new shareholders. To clarify the impact of different accounting policies, we have done some calculations and I'll share the same with you.

If we were to follow the industry accounting practice of amortizing content costs over 10 years, then our EPS for FY '23 would have been INR 7.91 compared to a reported EPS of INR 5.91, which means it would have been higher by 34%. We'll be doing these calculations on an annual basis and we'll continue to share the outcomes with you.

Now let me take you through the financial highlights of the quarter gone by. The company has reported a healthy quarter. Our revenue for the quarter was INR 52.6 crores as compared to INR 34.2 crores in Q1 FY '23. Year-on-year revenue growth was 54%. Operating EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 35 crores versus INR 22.4 crores in Q1 FY '23. That's an annual growth of 56%. The operating EBITDA margins were at 66.6% for this quarter.

Our profit after tax for Q1 FY '24 stood at INR 27.1 crores versus INR 17.2 crores in Q1 FY '23, a growth of 58%. PAT margin for the quarter was 52%.

With this, I open the floor for discussion.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Swapnil Khabra from SK Enterprises ].

U
Unknown Analyst

Am I audible?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes.

U
Unknown Analyst

[Foreign Language]

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[Foreign Language]

U
Unknown Analyst

[Foreign Language]

S
Sushant Dalmia
executive

[Foreign Language]

U
Unknown Analyst

[Foreign Language]

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[Foreign Language]

S
Sushant Dalmia
executive

Q4, it was around 33.6 billion and in Q1, it is around 48.3 billion views.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[Foreign Language]

U
Unknown Analyst

Just a request, sir. [indiscernible]

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] we can't do that.

U
Unknown Analyst

Okay. Okay.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] better for us [indiscernible] we can't reveal our actual numbers. There is a competition also going on. [indiscernible]

U
Unknown Analyst

Okay. Sir, another question about radio industry [indiscernible]

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] and that order was valid till 2020. [indiscernible] we will see a big money coming from radio, not very big, but a substantial amount [indiscernible]

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of CA Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics.

G
Garvit Goyal
analyst

Am I audible?

Operator

Yes, sir, you are. You may please continue.

G
Garvit Goyal
analyst

Congratulations for a good set of numbers, sir. My first question is in your presentation, names like Instagram and Facebook are not getting appeared while these names were there as our digital partners in last presentation. So what is the reason for it, sir?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Instagram, Facebook, we have not renewed our deal. [indiscernible] will give my content for 2 billion people. [indiscernible] we need the correct price. [indiscernible] we will work out a -- make a model like a YouTube [indiscernible] will also make money. [indiscernible] But after 2 years, they have not done anything in that. [indiscernible] And they again said [indiscernible] is too less money. So we can't do that. [indiscernible]

G
Garvit Goyal
analyst

Sir, if this deal is not renewed, so in FY '24 how our revenues are going to be impacted?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] So I'm okay with that. [indiscernible] We have to aim for a bigger thing. [indiscernible]

G
Garvit Goyal
analyst

Understood, sir. And, sir, second is we did 56% kind of OPM margin in FY '23. And in this quarter, it is around 66%. So how do we see this metric on full year basis for FY '24 going forward?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] and I strongly think it's achievable. 30% top line will grow and 30% bottom line also will grow.

G
Garvit Goyal
analyst

So, sir, I was asking from the OPM margin perspective, sir. Sir, last year, in FY '23, you did around 56% margins, OPM EBITDA margins. And in this quarter, first quarter, it is [ 67% ]. So that's why I am asking on a full year basis, what is your target for the EBITDA margin, sir?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Sushant [indiscernible]?

S
Sushant Dalmia
executive

Mr. Goyal, in terms of EBITDA margin, will be similar to last year. And let's say this year -- let's say this quarter 66.5%, let's say, don't compare it on a quarter-on-quarter basis and compare us on a full year basis. That would be the request. And the top line and, let's say, the bottom line will grow by 30%.

G
Garvit Goyal
analyst

Understood.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Ravi Naredi from Naredi Investment.

R
Ravi Naredi
analyst

Taurani, sir, thank you again for posting nice result. You are magician in this industry and doing good things for the company. Sir, YouTube user rises 41% in quarter 1 and -- against the quarter 4. So where you see optimum level of this user base?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Thank you, Ravi. [indiscernible] YouTube is like an ocean. [indiscernible] It's really a big thing.

R
Ravi Naredi
analyst

[Foreign Language]

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] please don't value us on quarter-to-quarter basis [indiscernible]

R
Ravi Naredi
analyst

[indiscernible] quarter-to-quarter. But whatever is the themes are going on [indiscernible]. Sir, content cost is INR 12.2 crore and rising continuously. That is good also. So have you make up your mind how much it will be in percentage of revenue terms? It is 22%, 23% now. [indiscernible]

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] so we should go up to 32%, 33%, 35% also. [indiscernible] I feel.

R
Ravi Naredi
analyst

Okay. [indiscernible]

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] We close the deal in first meeting itself. [indiscernible] and we are very happy because [indiscernible] without having 2, 3 big services with us [indiscernible] So we will maintain that. [indiscernible]

R
Ravi Naredi
analyst

Yes, yes, yes. [indiscernible]

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[Foreign Language]

Operator

The next question is from the line of [ Priyank Sarkar from Fahmy and Capital ].

U
Unknown Analyst

I just wanted to touch base on the IPRS part, sir. What was the growth of IPRS in FY '23? And I'm not looking quarterly deliberately. And sir, how is the outlook going to be from this revenue coming from the IPRS segment?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes. IPRS is a publishing body. [indiscernible] So that's a big business going to happen, I feel.

U
Unknown Analyst

[indiscernible] FY '24, your expectation is INR 500 crores for the industry.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes, yes, yes.

U
Unknown Analyst

[indiscernible] it can go up to INR 1,500 crores.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[Foreign Language]

U
Unknown Analyst

[indiscernible] that is my main question actually.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] also you have to give publishing rights. [indiscernible]

Operator

The next question is from the line of Mayur Parkeria from Wealth Managers.

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

Am I audible?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes, yes.

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

Sir, congratulations on good set of number and again congratulations for continuing with the policy. Every quarter we'll keep on just reiterating this and congratulations so that I know you don't intend to change it, but it's an amazing policy. And I think, sir, in the start of the call, you mentioned that we have done some working with respect to if the content cost was to be charged over 10 years, how the profit would have been looked. Sir, I think we should be the benchmark and let others do the recalculation of what if their profits would have been impacted had they followed you. I don't think we need to follow the others policy. We should -- this is a more rational and conservative and let others follow you rather than we following the others practices. So that was just a small observation.

Sir, on the content cost, sir, press release [indiscernible] Sir, my request is if you can add that in the presentation table also, then same information we can get in the presentation also, so along with the results table, because otherwise presentation [indiscernible] that is actually a replicate of your -- the press -- of your statutory release. [indiscernible] and the information is similar on both the presentation and the press releases. Just a small request.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes.

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

[indiscernible] So that is approximately 9% market share. So over long periods of time, over 4, 5 years, do we have any target that we want to reach there in terms of market share? Or do you think that the normal industry growth will play? I know we have outperformed the industry significantly. But do you think that do we have any market share in our mind with respect to which one to which?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes. [indiscernible] this is just a comparison and [indiscernible] We are very, very [indiscernible] stick on that [indiscernible] we should keep writing off same quarter -- same [indiscernible] written off in that quarter itself. Last year [indiscernible]. Agree to that point also. We will put it there. It's not a problem.

[indiscernible] market share also, we should look for that. [indiscernible] the way our content, our catalog, our repertoire is performing or [indiscernible].

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

Okay. Okay. Yes.

S
Sushant Dalmia
executive

Mayur, Just to add the content cost is there in the presentation. We have highlighted separately in our P&L. You can refer to slide # 14.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

14.

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

Slide number #14?

S
Sushant Dalmia
executive

14, yes. You can see the line item, content cost.

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

Slide #14 is industry-leading financial performance.

S
Sushant Dalmia
executive

Page 14. Page #14. There is P&L statement and you will see the content cost separately highlighted.

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

I'm so sorry. My apologies. My apologies. I missed this. I'm so sorry.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

No problem.

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

Thank you so much for highlighting this. [indiscernible] based on your understanding of how the industry is shaping up, [indiscernible] subscription revenue I am sure would be very small and marginal. Sir, how do you see that shaping up? Or do you think [indiscernible] what we need to focus on is the same advertising -- share of advertising revenue and other revenues which will come through the subscription revenues. Based on your understanding with the -- how the platforms and other things, the consumer behavior, what would be the current scenario and how do you see that in the next 3, 4, 5 years?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[Foreign Language]

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

[indiscernible] So sir, all this should play out over the next 3, 4 years, right sir?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Mythili Balakrishnan from Alchemy Capital.

M
Mythili Balakrishnan
analyst

A couple of questions...

Operator

Ma'am, I'm so sorry to interrupt. This is the conference operator. Requesting you to please speak a bit louder ma'am so that your audio is audible.

M
Mythili Balakrishnan
analyst

Sure. Wanted to check whether [ Saavn ] and Warner, the revenues have started for us? Or is that something that's still not there in the current top line?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Warner is -- so already last 3 years, we are -- monies were coming. We are showing in our every quarter-on-quarter basis. And Saavn also, we started in March. So every quarter Saavn also, it will come. And only left out is Instagram and this one Wynk, Airtel. That's it. All-- we are available on all other platforms.

M
Mythili Balakrishnan
analyst

Wynk and [indiscernible]

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Instagram, Facebook.

M
Mythili Balakrishnan
analyst

Okay. Got it. So -- but its agreement happened in March. [indiscernible] mentioned the fact that there were some INR 3.75 crores, which you had billed some person, which went into bankruptcy. Could you just explain [indiscernible]?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] but they were not closing the deal and [indiscernible] But again, we see it they are not -- only talking, talking, talking. So we put a NCLT case on them. And -- so [indiscernible] now they have sent us a request [indiscernible] let's talk, let's talk [indiscernible]. So that's why we have kept it aside.

M
Mythili Balakrishnan
analyst

[indiscernible] In terms of the upcoming content, could you just comment on some of the key movies that [indiscernible] you will be able to do it over the next couple of quarters?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes. We had 2 movies [indiscernible] Merry Christmas, which is in Hindi, Tamil and Telugu. Plus we have 1 more movie [indiscernible]

M
Mythili Balakrishnan
analyst

Okay. And all of them will probably get released this year itself?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes. This year. [indiscernible]

M
Mythili Balakrishnan
analyst

[indiscernible] Is there any pressure from YouTube or other people to accept a lower share on the ad revenues per se because [indiscernible] So just curious on that front.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] majority of people have taken those lines. [indiscernible] But ultimately, they will -- everybody will pay. [indiscernible] initially 15, 20 days, you will be seeing without ads. [indiscernible] ultimately they are also making a huge money without paying us anything. [indiscernible] Not to worry at all.

M
Mythili Balakrishnan
analyst

Got it. And in terms of the non-digital revenues [indiscernible] could you just help us understand what are the parts of it and [indiscernible]?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] Touch wood, we are doing well. [indiscernible] so why not TV will pay us more. [indiscernible]

M
Mythili Balakrishnan
analyst

Got it. And my last question is on regional content. Could you just help us understand [indiscernible]. And incrementally is that something [indiscernible] it's better to be focused on the mainstream Hindi [indiscernible]?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] 85%, 90% we will on the main thing and 10%, 15% will be on regional.

Operator

The next question is from the line of [ Sagar Jethwani ] of Phillip Capital.

U
Unknown Analyst

Yes. So we have taken 5, 6 names, film names where we wish to acquire the content. So out of this INR 85 crores, INR 90 crores full year guidance that we have given [indiscernible] including promotions and all?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[Foreign Language]

U
Unknown Analyst

Ballpark, any numbers you can provide?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[Foreign Language]

U
Unknown Analyst

Okay. Okay. [indiscernible] including marketing, promotions, et cetera?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes, yes.

U
Unknown Analyst

Okay. Okay. This is first. And second is that Saregama uses artificial intelligence in song selection. Are we also using any kind of technology for same? Or is it purely judgmental?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] very soon you will hear some more news from us [indiscernible].

U
Unknown Analyst

That's great to hear, sir. And next is that in the last con call, I had asked you, sir, that [indiscernible] Have we gone through that? Any comeback on that, sir?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] You can say that.

U
Unknown Analyst

Okay. Okay. So we are not in a position to monitor that ad where is it playing? Because we get a sharing pool from the ads as well. So that's why this question I thought to ask you.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] But, Girish, can you find out and tell, tell him [indiscernible]?

G
Girish Taurani
executive

Yes, yes, we can surely do that. In fact, last time we had actually done some analysis and we found that on every second video of ours, we are getting an ad placed. So we were very -- we saw that number. We've done that deep analysis. But this particular aspect, we will come back to you for sure.

U
Unknown Analyst

Sure, sure, sure. Okay. Okay.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Saket Mehrotra from Tusk Investments.

S
Saket Mehrotra
analyst

Sir, any visibility on how do you see the paid subscriptions shaping up like in the last 2, 3 years and across these quarters would be helpful to like know what your views are.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] and Spotify is also pushing customers [indiscernible].

S
Saket Mehrotra
analyst

Okay. And, sir [indiscernible] quarter, we've mentioned that we've released almost 260 plus -- 259 new songs. So does this -- like, is this across all channels and does it like include -- so a lot of times I see we reupload our old songs. So is this like -- does that account for that as [indiscernible]?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] And now we are focused [indiscernible] we will focus more on the quality, better quality [indiscernible] -- next year onwards, we will maybe do 200, 250 songs a year. [indiscernible] So we'll see, we'll take a call in third or fourth quarter [indiscernible].

S
Saket Mehrotra
analyst

Okay. [indiscernible] And then you're saying you'll table it to 200?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes. [indiscernible] Yes.

Operator

The next question is from the line of [ Akshay Sam from Sam Capital ].

U
Unknown Analyst

Taurani ji, first of all, congrats to you and your team. I mean, you've been delivering for the last few years consistently. It's great for us as shareholders. [indiscernible] I mean our target is to become the Top 3 music label in the country. But the thing is content costs [indiscernible] Top 3 competitors. I know quantity is always not equal to quality-wise. But the Top 3 competitors of our Top 4 are heavily outspending us in terms of content costs, at least [indiscernible] at least on the big budget films and all that. I mean, what is your view on that?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes, that's true. But [indiscernible] So on the contrary, we should be more cautious. [indiscernible] I still think it's achievable. [indiscernible]

U
Unknown Analyst

Because ultimately [indiscernible] in the future, I mean that will also strengthen our hand in negotiating with the likes of DSPs and Spotify [indiscernible] at least it will become -- our company will become future proof as well.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Akshay ji [indiscernible] -- everybody, 90% of the company is now saying [indiscernible] will not -- we don't know your content. [indiscernible] So they feel [ this is ] better than all those players. So the way we are happening on Spotify and [indiscernible] performance is 2 different things. [indiscernible] So that's -- I feel that's very positive for Tips and [indiscernible]

Operator

The next question is from the line of [ Surbhi from PwC ].

U
Unknown Analyst

Hi. Am I audible?

Operator

Yes, ma'am. You are.

U
Unknown Analyst

Sir, congratulations on a great set of numbers. I have 2 questions. Firstly, on margins. We've seen a significant improvement in margins in this quarter. So can you throw some light on how this margin improvement has happened and what has worked in our favor this quarter? I understand we should not look at it from a quarter perspective. But still, if you can share some insights.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes. Sushant, take this one. [indiscernible]

S
Sushant Dalmia
executive

[indiscernible] on account of the content cost. If you see this quarter prime focus on this quarter [indiscernible] on account of content cost it says around INR 12 crores. But what we say is do measure us on a year-on-year basis for the full 12 months and don't look specifically on the quarter and that quarter's margins.

U
Unknown Analyst

Sir, we followed this policy of booking the content costs in the same quarter of the release. And now you said that we've added like around 259 songs, which is higher than the run rate of the songs that we've been releasing in the last 2, 3 quarters. So, like, do you see content cost softening? Or are there any other reasons behind this cost going down?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Sorry, can you repeat your question?

U
Unknown Analyst

The number of songs that we've released is higher on a sequential basis. And I believe the case when the content cost is going up, your content cost would have gone up or stayed in the same range where it was in the past 2, 3 quarters. But we've seen significant savings on the content despite high number of songs that we've released. So what explains -- I'm trying to understand how the content cost has come down so significantly for you in this quarter.

S
Sushant Dalmia
executive

So primarily, if you look, there were no big movie songs released this quarter. These were primarily, let's say, regional songs and Hindi songs both. But there was no big movie. Let's say last year we had PS I, PS II [indiscernible]. This quarter, let's say, we didn't had a big movie release. But, let's say for next 9 months, as we have communicated in this call, the pipeline is good for us.

U
Unknown Analyst

Understood. Understood. And could you share some insights of what is the cost which has gone behind the new content and what is the revenue potential? So which new content you can say content which has got released in the last 6 months.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

What we share typically is, let's say, for every content, let's say, the payback period would be around 4 to 5 years. It would be difficult to, let's say, break down and give you the 6 months numbers, but let's say, any content we acquire on a basket basis, the payback period would be around typically 4 to 5 years.

U
Unknown Analyst

And has the payback period like stretched for you a little bit because of increase in content cost versus what it was, say, 2 years back?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

It has, marginally it has. But as you know that we are not aggressively bidding for the content. We need quality content. And that's why we are sticking to our payback period of 4 to 5 years.

Operator

The next question is from the line of CA Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics.

G
Garvit Goyal
analyst

Just a clarification on -- in slide number -- page #6 in your slides, you have mentioned the music sector is [indiscernible] FY '23, right? So what is the expected growth for that number or overall industry for the next 3 to 5 years? Because you are saying after 3 to 4 years, you will be targeting somewhere 11% to 12% share in that. So that's why I'm asking.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

I think industry [indiscernible] industry numbers.

G
Garvit Goyal
analyst

That means it will prevail for next 3 to 4 years as well.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes, yes, yes.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Mayur Parkeria from Wealth Managers.

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

Actually, I forgot to ask last time. Sir [indiscernible] if we can -- on an annual basis we are on any periodicity, sir, if you can give the understanding that how much of our revenues come through movie releases, which have been before 2000 then before 2010, then before [indiscernible] broad color, if you can give a suggestion so that [indiscernible] where we are more strength and how we are progressing. [indiscernible] So just one more request again, sir, if possible.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Yes. [indiscernible]. We will come back.

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

Right, sir. Right, sir. And, sir, have you mentioned that in this year we are going to spend INR 85 crores, INR 90 crores because I missed that, I think. For content, is that the target because INR 65 cores and INR 70 crores...

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[indiscernible] content cost.

M
Mayur Parkeria
analyst

[indiscernible] As a percentage of revenue, last year, we had spent INR 60 crores. So [indiscernible] content cost broadly [indiscernible] it will significantly increase?

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

[Foreign Language]

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference back to Mr. Nikunj Jain from Orient Capital for closing comments.

N
Nikunj Jain

Thank you. I would like to thank the management for taking the time out for this conference call today. And also thanks to all the participants. If you have any queries, please feel free to contact us. We are Orient Capital Investor Relations Adviser to Tips Industries Limited. Thank you so much.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Thank you. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. On behalf of Tips Industries Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.

K
Kumar Taurani
executive

Thank you.

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