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Tejas Networks Ltd
Earnings Call Analysis
Q2-2025 Analysis
Tejas Networks Ltd
Tejas Networks reported its highest ever quarterly revenue of INR 2,811 crores for Q2 FY '25, which reflects a significant increase driven by robust demand across various sectors. The company also achieved a profit after tax of INR 275 crores, showcasing a remarkable improvement from INR 77 crores in the previous quarter. This performance indicates solid operational execution and strong market demand, particularly in the wireless segment, including 4G and 5G networks.
The order book at the end of Q2 stood at INR 2,845 crores, underlining continued confidence in future growth. Notably, Tejas has ramped up its manufacturing capabilities, successfully shipping over 30,000 4G and 5G sites in this quarter and a cumulative total of over 58,000 sites for BSNL. This increased capacity positions Tejas to meet growing customer demand and capitalize on the expansion of network infrastructures.
Tejas Networks experienced considerable momentum in its wireless business, selecting for PTN and DWDM equipment orders from a Tier-1 telecom provider in India. Moreover, the company is actively involved in critical infrastructure projects, including partnerships with state power utilities and participation in smart city initiatives. Expansion is also evident in international markets, with new contract wins in North America and Africa contributing to overall sales.
While the India government business has experienced a slight decline due to contract maturation, and international sales faced delays attributed to order timing, the company identifies substantial opportunities ahead. Major projects such as BSNL's 4G expansion and prospective contracts in BharatNet Phase III are expected to drive growth. The management anticipates that if executed successfully, these projects could sustain and potentially increase the order flow beyond current figures.
Looking forward, Tejas Networks aims to enhance its order pipeline by participating in various tenders, particularly for large-scale upgrades in 5G networks. Although specific revenue guidance was not disclosed, the management expressed optimism regarding maintaining and potentially exceeding the shipment capacity of 30,000 sites in the upcoming quarters. Upcoming contracts and continuous investments in market participation are expected to support this trajectory.
The company acknowledges inherent volatility linked to large project timelines, which may impact revenue consistency. Mitigating factors include increased manufacturing capacity and a focus on diversifying its customer base. Tejas is proactive in addressing potential supply chain issues, emphasizing the establishment of a robust infrastructure to enhance operational resilience.
From a strategic perspective, Tejas Networks is focused on enhancing its wireless capabilities while exploring additional opportunities in enterprise and utility networks. The management has underscored its commitment to leveraging digital transformation trends and smart city initiatives, which are pivotal in driving long-term growth amidst evolving market dynamics.
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Tejas Networks Limited Q2 FY '25 Earnings Conference call hosted by ICICI Securities. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjesh Jain from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, [ again ]. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining on Tejas Networks Limited Second Quarter FY '25 Results Conference Call. We have Tejas Networks management on call represented by Mr. Anand Athreya, our Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director; Mr. Arnob Roy, Chief Operating Officer and Full Time Director; Mr. Sumit Dhingra, Chief Financial Officer; Dr. Kumar N. Sivarajan, Chief Technology Officer.
I would like to invite Mr. Arnob to initiate the call with his opening remarks. Post which, we will have a Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
Yes. So everyone, welcome to our quarterly investor call. I hope you have received the slides that we have uploaded. So I'll take a few minutes to go through before our Q&A session. So on the first part, for the quarterly revenues has been the highest ever in -- for the company, INR 2,811 crores with a profit after tax of INR 275 crores and an order book at the end of Q2 was INR 2,845 crores. So with all the significant things that have happened during the quarter for our wireless business, we have significantly ramped up our 4G/5G RAN shipments within our network. This quarter, we did more than 30,000 sites and cumulatively, we have shipped more than 58,000 sites for [ BSNL's ] network. I think there has been a tremendous [indiscernible] in terms of scaling up our manufacturing capacity.
We also received additional orders for densification of the installed 4G/5G network [indiscernible] and by that, what I mean is that to increase the coverage of BSNL, many of our existing site, the single-brand sites have been upgraded to a dual band with the addition of Band 28. And with that, with the existing deployment, BSNL will get a lot more additional coverage with the exploration of this additional brand.
From a wireless business, we have been selected for PTN and DWDM equipment from one of the Tier-1 telcos in India all that for the capacity expansion of the 4G/5G mobile network. We are seeing continuing success in the Critical Infrastructure segment in India, and we have been selected by a leading state power utilities company for their passive [ cabin ] network and also being selected in one of the smart city projects in the country.
In the international market, we are seeing good traction for GPON and DWDM products, and we've had a few new customer wins in the Americas and in Africa. And we received the initial order for network modernization win in the U.S., which we had reported last quarter. We have seen the initial orders coming within the [indiscernible] this quarter and we hope to follow [ additional ] as well.
From a corporate point of view, we completed the merger with Saankhya Labs in this quarter.
I now hand it over to Sumit, our CFO, for walking us through the financial numbers.
Good evening, everyone. For the quarter, we had revenues of INR 2,655 crores. This is 1.8x of the previous quarter and about 6.7x of the year before. After considering the other operating revenue, which is predominantly PLI incentive, the revenue was INR 2,800 crores. Against this, we had an EBITDA of INR 459 crores, profit after tax of INR 275 crores compared to INR 77 crores in profit in the previous quarter.
Move to the next slide, where we talk about the financial indicators. Our inventory at the end of the quarter was INR 3,411 crores which is -- it's come up slightly compared to the previous quarter and expected to further come down as we convert [ finished goods ] then receivables stand at about INR 3,758 crores. The increase is from predominantly stemming from higher shipments that happened in this quarter. We also collected about INR 1,400 crores during the year. Working capital has gone up by about INR 100 crores and our borrowing position at the end of the quarter was INR 2,768 crores. So the cash is about INR 583 crores.
With this, I'll just hand it over back to Anand.
Thanks, Sumit. So a little bit more color of our quarter performance and the business outlook. So in terms of the revenue that we reached. Of course, largest segment has been India private, 93% of that. And as we have mentioned earlier, the BSNL shipments [indiscernible] to private operator, private company categorize itself India Private revenue. So [indiscernible] is still dominated by our segment for BSNL. The India government business declined about 4% of our revenues decline year-over-year or 5%. And that was mainly because we were at the tail end of the contracts. And as you know, that most of the government contracts were [ tenderless entry ]. These are not [indiscernible] business. So as we go in the initial period, there's an increase and then there's a payment and then there's the next [indiscernible] happen.
In international, there was also decline because of the timing of the PO and the shipment. And however, the [ key shipments ] is year-over-year 3% of our overall revenues. And the key shipments that happened in international were to Africa and South Asia. We have a closing backlog of INR 4,800 crores, most of it in India, the INR 4,600 crore of that in India and INR 200-plus crore in international.
From our business outlook point of view, one of the key opportunities, large opportunities that we are targeting is the one part of it is the expansion of business 4G networks on the acquisition side and also for the 5G upgrade for which trials are ongoing right now. And we also [indiscernible]. The Indian Railways tender on the solution awarding system, where we have completed our POC successfully, and we are waiting for the tender to come out and begin to happen. Third largest one is a private 5G application for a large enterprise in India. Where again, we are in ongoing trials right now.
From a wireless perspective, there continue to be opportunities for us in BharatNet Phase III, where we have been bidding to the tender with multiple partners. I think majority of the partners have bid our equipment into the tender. The other parties, the expansion of [ bridging ] backbone network in the utilities segment, mix of our utility customers for their telecom business, we are seeing in business growth in their network and traffic growth. So all of them planned for major expansions in their network.
And thirdly, for the international operators, we see major opportunities in [indiscernible]. And also network modernization deals with multiple operators in both EMEA as well as America.
So I also wanted to add that I mentioned a few of the large deals that we have been targeting. But at the same time, there are many other -- all of these that are -- we are working on and especially there are many other opportunities in wireless that we're targeting with initial [ POCs ] or designed [indiscernible] and stuff like that. And I can say that we are finally starting to see a lot more engagement with our wireless products, both in India as well as the international market.
So from a long-term business outlook point of view, we still see outlook as being very positive in all the factors that we have mentioned earlier, which are driving growth of network, both of traffic in the network and this leads to traction to our business. All of them continue to have been positive and something to sure goes, whether it's been enterprise digital transformation in AI data centers, [indiscernible] with a run rate of 4G and 5G deployments not only in India but globally, and in the backhaul network for both as well and the investments in broadband connectivity that continues at quite a fast pace across the world. Then digitalization of cities, the smart cities, digital cities and applications like that, and the modernization of utility networks and modernization of not only utility networks but also international [indiscernible] old TDM network infrastructure, large infrastructure has been deployed, modernization of those networks also. So all of the applications that we target with our RAN, 4G/5G RAN and backhaul products with our multi-terabit packet and packet transport [indiscernible] as optical products and our FTTH GPON XGS-PON products, there is -- we see a lot of traction for most of the applications that are driving this net traffic growth across the world.
So with that, I'll stop over here, and we can take some questions [indiscernible] right now.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Aman Soni ] from Invest Analytics Advisory LLP.
Just one question on the kind of execution that happened in this quarter. It is quite significant, right? So my question is, do you feel like this kind of execution is going to sustain in the upcoming quarters for next, say, 3 to 4 quarters, sir?
Execution in terms of our RAN shipments for 4G/5G shipments to be precise?
Execution in terms of top line and bottom line kind of margins you reported in this quarter.
Well, as you know, we don't give revenue guidance, quarterly guidance kind of thing. But I think people are fairly knowledgeable and I can understand our business quite well, as well as our business pipeline order book. So without -- we don't give any business guidance about that.
The next question is from the line of Sohan Joshi from ASC Consultants.
My first question is, in the previous con call, you said that BSNL is going to come up with a nationwide tender for 5G in high-speed performance [ network ] of 3.5 gigahertz band. Can you please share any update whether any proof of concept is going on with regards to this?
Yes. So for -- not for the 3.5 gigahertz band yet, but for the 5G upgrades, the POCs that we are doing right now is for the 5G upgrades in the 4G bands that we have shipped.
So that is for the 40% sites under 2,100 megahertz, right? Basically, the proof of concept that is going on currently.
Yes. Not only is that, but in also the other bands as well.
So the tender result -- I mean, when the tender will be floated for this part of the project?
No. This 5G upgrade is part of the current tender that we are executing right now. It's not for the 3.5 gigahertz band, which is going to come later.
My second question is the CG Power have acquired radio frequency components from Renaissance Electronics. So can you please explain what will be the implications of this on our partnership [indiscernible] for designing and development of semiconductor solutions for 4G/5G RAN?
See, we are users of the semiconductor components. We are not designers of the semiconductor components which goes into 4G/5G RAN. So I think whatever partnerships that you're talking about is going to be suppliers for the radios, which have been designed for 4G/5G. So that's for the integration design. I mean it's not that -- we are not in the business of semiconductor for radios.
So is it fair to assume that going ahead, since we have already done local addition of most of the components, going in there won't be any major imports from our side and sees majority will be -- components will be localized?
No. I think -- see, many of the key semiconductor components are still imported because they come from Tier 1 semiconductor vendors across the world, and a lot of it is in the U.S. But there are other components of the radio. A lot of it is actually localized and for those parts, we will source from India. But I think the key semiconductors are still imported components.
[ It's not that we don't ] manufacture in India. I think at the time, I mean you hear a lot of noise of semiconductor fabs coming up in and all the sudden, I think when they become real and when the production starts over there and relevant to [indiscernible] specially use of our wireless and wireline products. When they start getting one factory in India, I mean, of course, we will definitely source from them. But that's still going to take some time.
Last question. Now see, a lot of talks are going on with regards to satellite communication and BSNL also started testing direct-to-device solutions. Are we in talking with BSNL any other Tata Group companies or any other Internet service provider for secular communication devices of Saankhya?
Yes. We are talking to a few potential customers. But again, these are long lead times. These things won't happen overnight. So we are talking to a few of the other providers and see where we can take the satellite communication product, the vehicle tracking system that we have built and see if we can use for other applications.
So proof of concepts are going on with regards to digital devices, right?
So the vehicle tracking system is deployed. I mean, our proof of concept has actually shipped.
The next question is from the line of [indiscernible] from Nippon India Mutual Fund.
So just wanted to ask how has our international order pipeline grown or declined year-on-year? Or what is the color there in terms of what you think and how it has shaped up?
Yes. I think this quarter has been a bit soft for our international business, especially from many of our [indiscernible] customers, but they also [indiscernible] on the coming cycle. But importantly, I think we've been able to win a few more of those, more new customers, which are strategic wins in international [ trade race ] so we are looking at that as a very positive sign as we expand our footprint across many more customer base. So that's probably how it went during the quarter.
And on actually two components, coverage is a big opportunity. So do you think we are well placed in it because of the wireless aspect of It?
Yes. So as of now, given that we've had very successful POC, I think we are well placed over there. If our products do meet the requirements that the customers will want.
And just last question from my side. The 5G upgradation, you said it's already baked into the current tender. What about the incremental 5G deployment that would have to be tendered again and that time line is not clear, right?
Yes. So that time line is not clear. I mean we are expecting it to happen later in the later quarters. But right now, the first part of it is the 5G upgrade in the current network in the existing band. And that's the current tender and we don't yet have the PO so they're doing POC right now.
So that would be implemented in FY '25 itself or that will take a bit longer?
Yes. I don't think it is going to be executed in -- all of it in FY '25. I mean we think that when [indiscernible] for the POC to get completed and in orders to come and the execution to happen. So I think it will be a few quarters.
The next question is from the line of Sanjesh Jain.
First, on this Kavach project, are we involved into the equipment for anticollision or the 4G or LTE deployment on [ 700 ], which is the same band we are putting for BSNL for the railway as well? What is the part within the Kavach are we playing the role?
Yes. It's only the wireless communication networks.
Second, on the closing backlog, which stands at close to [ INR 71 billion ]. Can you just help us in breaking what is the BSNL's component within the INR 71 billion. And how has non-BSNL component has grown Q-o-Q and Y-o-Y?
Yes. We actually don't disclose customer-wise or any other segment-wise like that. I think [ Egypt ] -- the closing backlog, we actually -- INR 4,845 crores you may have seen in the presentation. So we only split it between India and international and don't disclose it customer-wise or project-wise.
And on the last question, how has been the performance of the network because we have been on now probably at a risk cost deployment, how has been the performance of the network, which has been rolled out on our network? Has it been same as what was proven during POC?
The performance actually has been pretty good. So I mean, as I said in the -- we've shipped close to [ 3,000 ] sites and a lot of it is actually gaining [ install and ] commissions. And also, I think you must have seen on the press that there are a lot of BSNL [ bidding loss ], not more customer attraction. A lot of folks are coming back. So far, so good. I mean the radios have been performing very well. We are closely monitoring. So again, we've been shipping now for more than a year. So far so good, we continue to monitor.
Just one last question. Are we any way also looking into getting into the maintenance or O&M part of the network? Or we will restrict ourselves to the supply and equipment?
No, I think maintenance is -- and support is part of the tender. And there is a [ lasting after 3 years ], we have the support agreement which we did and that will come after the 3-year period of time after deployment.
So when we say closing backlog, do we include the O&M part has been?
No.
Only the equipment part of it, right? So [indiscernible] be a recurring business, and it will kick in from year three?
That is correct.
The next question is from the line of Ashish Shriram Thavkar from JM Mutual Funds.
So with this Cisco, they setting up a facility in India, and [indiscernible], we also have a center of excellence for wireless communication. So at any point in time, could we get engaged to it Cisco or how should we [indiscernible]?
So I think these two are unconnected because manufacturing in India. And this doesn't connect us in any way with Cisco. Our wireless [indiscernible] center of excellence is for our research and development efforts in wireless and Cisco is more of localizing their manufacturing over there. And these two are not connected distributions, right?
And on Kavach, I guess there's some shift in time line from the government side. So how long do you see before we get the big people, investors get to see some revenue traction? Is it a delayed opportunity?
Yes, I think it is -- tender itself is running a bit behind schedule, even though I think the testing [indiscernible] and all -- but I think tender itself is running a little financially. It is still scheduled for a definite financial year as of now.
And what about BharatNet Phase-III then? The tenders are closed, any timelines? When can the outcomes come out?
Well, it is really is far more [indiscernible] where all the bidding has happened -- tendering and bidding has happened. So I mean, we expect to see from what we know. I think there's a lot of background work happening in the tender evaluation. So maybe several weeks from now, depending on how reevaluation goes, and that the time which is obviously the result is coming off.
Sir, lastly on this Vodafone, we were also engaged in a dialogue with Vodafone any successor or potentially any business could come our way?
I don't think we have disclosed any particular customer by name that are going on, except for BSNL and Indian Railway. But yes, I think there are customers, there are Tier 1 operators in the country where the POCs are going on and these POCs are going to a little extended cycles because as and when it comes, there are additional feature requests or some improvements we keep updating and also it's a longer POC cycle. And we -- innovative doing well, and we hope to see business coming at the end of it. That is going to be a little long process with POCs.
Just one last, if I may. International business, if you could like share your perspective. Like three years out, where you see international business, is there like an existing terms of [ quantum ] of order book as you want to build for those markets? Is there some number which is there, in your mind?
For international business? International business in general or for any for wireless or for the [ Center of Excellence ].
This is just for wireless, [indiscernible] for our RAN equipment and the equipment that you supply?
Yes. I mean it's just hard to quantify and we don't give guidance. We do -- we are starting to see a lot of good traction and bidding opportunities and CFU opportunities coming up. So as I mentioned that we are starting to see initially, our focus was mainly making BSNL successful and doing some of the local trials and POCs and opportunities in India, whether the private operators or towers or stuff like that. But now we are starting to engage a lot and outside of India as well. and seeing a lot more opportunities opening up or bidding for fewer fees and things like that. But it's hard to quantify the numbers as we speak.
The next question is from the line of Jinesh Shah from RSPN Ventures.
So my first question would be that as of end of quarter 2, we had a nature order book from BSNL and right now, we are targeting a couple more opportunities like Kavach and BharatNet, everything. So I just wanted to understand that what might be the expected time from all the opportunities that we are targeting? And also, if we get -- positively, if we get the contract then what will be the expected execution time that will be starting the equipment supply and everything, if you can provide a guidance on that.
Yes. I think the TAM is something we don't really disclose about order and also hard to establish across all of them for the tenders that have come out from BharatNet and all, I think you've seen a lot of public reports on the tender of the [indiscernible]. So that information is available and public. For other opportunities, since it's really -- we do not know the scope of the tender. We have this high level guidance on the number of sites, the number of stations and things like that. There's some rough idea, but again, it's hard to say we don't speculate on those numbers. And there was a second part to your question?
So my second part was that hopefully to get the opportunities, then what will be like the execution time line?
Yes. Timeline. They all depend on when the tenders get awarded and supply timeline that they set up. And since many of these are very large tenders, I think there will be a process, and it will take some time in terms of tenders, initiation and bidding, evaluation and also [ I think ] We expect that many of these deals will actually roll over to the next financial year.
So my second question would be regarding the borrowings that we have in our balance sheet. So right now, if I can see that it's around almost [ 3,000 CRM ] that Tejas has been getting good numbers. So like -- anyway in last con call that we had discussed that probably by the end of this financial year, it will start to get ease out. So right now, like are you planning to just reduce the pressure on working capital cycle?
Yes. So I think the point we made in the last call also, I think it broadly continues as the project and [indiscernible] picks up or moves towards completion, which we'll see the working capital intensity coming down. This obviously is also linked to other projects and as and when they get added to the order book. So till that time, you have clarity on some of those projects, hard to comment on how the working capital cycle plays out.
And my last question would be that if I'm correct, the BharatNet order is around INR 65,000 crore approximate budget and the -- so like -- and Tejas has specifically in supplying of equipment. So can I conclude that specifically with respect to this particular project, it's around INR 6,000 crore, that will be eligible for a bit, right?
So I think you're calculating INR 65,000 crore as officially for this phase and then maybe we are taking 10% off that. So I think I would say, in the ballpark, but it could be lower and all. I mean based on the combination of that and also depends on -- there are many other equipment, right? I mean all of it is not addressed by our portion of the -- its [indiscernible] the network, there are other [indiscernible], right? But ballpark, you can say 10%, 8% to 10% of overall spend comes into it. The rest of it is fiber and other infrastructure business.
The next question is from the line of Aditya Mehta from GK Capital.
So my question is with regards to private players in the domestic market. So there has been a lot of news [indiscernible] regarding network upgradation deals being awarded to our global competitors. So just wanted to understand what is it that we are missing and we are not able to get a share of that pie from the private players?
Yes. I think most of them with -- for the upgradation gone with their existing vendors. And as I said, that we were -- our focus was [indiscernible] the BSNL projects. At the same time, we started POC last quarter with some of the other opportunities, operators and the fiber industries as well. So I would say, because we are in a hurry to expand, most of them have gone with the existing vendors, with the existing networks and so on. But at some point of time, later on after we complete our [indiscernible] successfully, I think we will certainly expect to get some opportunities into the network. So this still our long tail of deployment.
So what is the winning point we have over then? Because if you see, it will be easy for them to integrate the existing equipment with the existing band only. So what is the winning point that we might slice in a share from private players?
I think if we -- our equipment will be quite competitive and it will support most of the bands or almost all of the bands that are getting deployed in India. So a wide range of bandwidth also been supported. We have a variety of single band, dual band, triple band, radios, and quite list of products and also from an architecture point of view, our RAN which has the [ BBUs ] with integrated transport and things like that because we reduced the overall cost of solution. I mean those are some of the features that we think will have a differentiator with respect to global competition.
So just one point, whether cost-wise, we are efficient from our competitors on global competitions or not?
Let's put it to say that it is not a [indiscernible], but the overall solution, the total cost of ownership if you combine our radio and all the things that I talked about, the multiband radios and the [ BBUs ] with integrated [indiscernible] and a single premium in 4G/5G. I mean [indiscernible] architecture has had the total cost of solutions would work out better.
So any time line for this POC, when it will completed?
It is going on right now. So I think it will take some time and maybe another quarter of things like that when [ other's POC is completed].
And secondly, looking at our current order book, it seems that we will exhaust it within this financial hear itself. So until now after the BSNL order win, we haven't seen any major addition to our order book. So how do we see maintaining our revenue flow going ahead in the absence of a major addition?
Well, as I said, we don't give our guidance but we gave a flavor of the opportunities, the opportunities that we are targeting that are right in front of us, which look -- where we look positive -- which is positive for us. And those are the ones that are going to fill our backlog in our order book, and that's where the future business is going to come from. And it's hard to pinpoint a particular number and how the business is going to be replicated.
So do we see any major addition in order book in the next 6 months or within this financial year?
Again, hard to give time lines, but I'll just go back to the slide where we talk about the key opportunities targeted, which is the expansion of BSNL 4G networks the 5G upgrading the current band and the other one, right? I mean we [indiscernible] expansion of [indiscernible] all of them are actually fairly large for this, right? I mean, of course, the INR 1,000 crores kind of a thing, right? So once they materialize, I think that's the time we'll see our order book really expanding in terms of large numbers. But again, I just want to tell you that we are not giving any guidance over year and also all opportunities where we are well positioned, but we are not really one in our hands to really share guidance for those.
Got it. And just last question over tax rate. Our tax is a little higher, if we see. So why is it so?
Sorry, when you say higher, how higher are you looking at that?
So looking at new tax regime -- again compare it with new tax regime, it seems a little bit higher, [ 2% ] or around..
We're not migrated to the new regime. We have losses accumulated over the past. So we're still in the old regime of [indiscernible].
And when do we plan to shift to new regime?
That will depend on various parameters, including how and when we absorb our losses.
The next question is from the line of [ Krishna Hara ] from The Investment Forum.
How does the company plan to accelerate international sales given that international revenue contribution remains small at 3%. Are there any new certain geographies or contracts in the pipeline?
As I said, we have been investing and continue to invest into our sales channels and partnerships into the new targeted geographies, which is North America, Europe, Middle East, Asia and Middle East, Africa, Asia and so on. So our strategy for growth is investing in more and more sales channels and partnerships and participating in as we get more visibility. We are participating in a lot more trade shows for building our brand and getting more notice. And winning whatever customer deals comes along, so we build our reference in those geographies, right?
So this is a little long profit, which goes on. I mean there have been significant engagements, significant opportunities that have also come up, which we are going to the [ process ] right now. But yes, it is a long way. It's a long process of building your brand, building your channels and getting to success, right? And we are going through all of that right now.
The next question is from the line of [indiscernible] from NBG CFO Services.
I want to know, you have mentioned in your press release that you have made record deliveries of 30,000-plus 4G sites. So will you be able to maintain these kinds of deliveries for the next two quarters or exceed them?
[indiscernible].
So yes, we have actually -- we have increased capacity. So we will have the ability to tell you [indiscernible].
So we will be able to exceed the 30,000-plus number for the next third and fourth quarter?
So I can't reveal the exact numbers, but let's just say that we have the ability to [indiscernible] indicate.
The next question is from the line of [ Rajesh Kutter ] from RK Capital.
I have two to three small questions. So you have shared your order book, can you also share your pipeline numbers as in like how many tenders you have bid for? What is your confidence level in building the tenders and the pipeline closing cycle?
No, approximately, we don't do that.
Then my next question, like historically, the business has been quite up and down in the last 4 years in one quarter or year, suddenly, there are operating losses. And then in one quarter, suddenly, you have bulk numbers. So going forward, I know you don't give guidance, and I'm not asking for numerics. But going forward, like will it be more consistent and less volatile? What will be the business trajectory going forward? Like you can just give you a qualitative answer without getting into specific numbers. So as investors, how should we model the business?
Well, if you see our business still has -- it's still [ cumulated ] by large projects. So when that comes in and large projects are still in terms of a total business from [indiscernible]. So there will be period we see business wins coming for large projects and take it executed over multiple quarters. And the run rate business will become whatever comes from the private and the international kind of thing. So while big projects dominate, I mean, there is a possibility of seeing a spike in terms of revenue. And that's the fact, right? That's the nature of our business as of now.
Okay. Like is it possible to give any base case scenario? Or you will like to avoid that also?
No, not [ data ]. I think the way we should probably see the businesses from an overall annual point of view, right? I mean quarter-over-quarter [ in mind ], if our business is dominated by large projects and in very good site, but I think overall year-over-year business is [indiscernible].
Sir, my last question, like when you have the capacity, like the previous participant asked you about your capacity to deliver 30,000 sites. And when you do have the capacity, you said. So what can stop you? What could go wrong like, let's say, in the next quarter or the next, two next quarter where, let's say, you don't, I mean, do 30,000 sites. What can go wrong?
In terms of manufacturing, there is no issue. As long as the order at least coming the way we have anticipated and the way we see it, I don't think we have any issues in terms of being able to manufacture them.
So I mean in terms of delivery or revenue, like what could go wrong -- I mean -- just trying to understand like why will it not translate into the numbers? Or what can happen there?
What could go wrong in terms of manufacturing supply chain? I mean if we have the order book, we don't -- I mean, unless there are unforeseen events in terms of supply chain or any other thing that happens in a normal business cycle. I don't think any other factor really comes in because we have really worked hard in setting up this kind of a manufacturing capacity and [indiscernible], where we can ship and add large numbers with high quality. So as far as what we can see as far as the business is there, I don't really see any issues in terms of not being able to deliver, barring any unforeseen events that I really can't predict or credit right now.
The next question is from the line of [ Agam ] from Raj Trading.
So most of my questions answered. A quick thought [indiscernible] not here. So can you share your thoughts on your closing order book is already [indiscernible]. So I believe that a lot of projects will take time [indiscernible] whatever thoughts you can share. So what can we expect in next 6 months to 1 year, [indiscernible] order you'll win or whatever you're looking at potential, whatever you can say. Just some color on it.
Yes. So as I mentioned, I mean, I talked about some of the key opportunities. I think that should give an idea of the business in [indiscernible] and how the order which is [indiscernible] and again driven around BharatNet Phase III, expansion of backbone network, expansion of BSNL 4G/5G network upgrades and things around that, right? I mean, most of the large opportunities I have highlighted. So those are the projects that are going to come into expanding our order book going forward.
So do you see that you see all these progressing well on 6 months [indiscernible] from here? Currently from where you are?
[ Where ] these opportunities are all real. And apart from that, I think, as I mentioned at the end of my presentation, all the other drivers which are causing which are basically a driver for our business, which are causing expansion of network growth of data traffic in networks and the applications of expansion of 5G networks and broadband expansion, and [indiscernible] and stuff like that. I mean all of those factors we see show no signs of slowing down. They are still growing and growing at a fast level. So all the drivers of our business is still look good. So that's why we are bullish about our [indiscernible].
The next question is from the line of [ Dhruv Shah ] from [ Ambika Fincap ].
My question is for Anand, sir. So you have come from Juniper, who is a leader in enterprise business. So my question pertains to are we seeing a big opportunity in the enterprise side of the business because I couldn't see that on the business opportunity side. So if you can just allude to that part because the capital requirement for Tata Group companies would also be in a sizable portion for us.
So look, while we don't talk about the road map. What I really want to say is that we want to build a portfolio that's going to serve both service forward and enterprise in both [ wireline ] and wireless. That's been the division and mission of Tejas. Again, we want to build the next network [indiscernible] company out of India, and you will serve any and every market in order to [indiscernible] including the group.
Are we trying to replicate the products which are there in Juniper and Tejas as well?
Look, as I said, I can't comment on the road map when we launch it, you will see.
The next question is from the line of [indiscernible] from Mount Intra Finance.
I heard you said that the operations and maintenance [ parts ] start faster a period of three years. So we may complete the supply of equipment, maybe by FY '25 or Q1 FY '26. So when does the contract for O&M come in?
So it will come in from three years after they are commissioned. So it is not that it starts right at the end of the last deployment. It's for every different circle or every different deployment. I mean as long as after the 3-year period, their maintenance cycle will start.
And sir, you said that the one particular tender was running a bit behind schedule. I just missed that part. Was it the Kavach tender, the BharatNet tender, which one is running a little bit behind schedule?
Yes, the Kavach center is [indiscernible] [ financially ].
And sir, just one last thing. So I see in the presentation that we received some additional orders regarding that network densification part. Was that part of the original INR 7,500 crore order? Or is it something additional in case of that? And do we foresee maybe some additional sites that BSNL would require for which we can get further orders as well?
Yes. So this is, as I said, part of the tender scope, but not exactly part of the original planned network, right? This is kind of an add-on to the original plan of the network because as and when the network is deployed, and they are seeing more opportunities and more customers, they are kind of enhancing their plans, I would say to upgrade the existing sites from the original plan to add more bands to increase their coverage and capacity. So that's what is happening. So technically, this is part of the same tender that we have won but the specific plan in terms of the deployment of a particular brand in a particular site, I think that is something which is evolving and it is causing -- retiring [ two ] of our business as these additional bands are coming up. But this is nothing to do, this is not connected to the additional sites for the [ calculation ] side for the additional towers.
So is there any time and because the one prevailing line of [indiscernible] maybe [ 100 ] sites might not actually suffice for BSNL to have a nationwide 4G rollout looking at the kind of network that maybe some of the other players have. So is there any plan in the pipeline for some additional sites maybe to kind of have a proper network rollout for that?
Yes. I think that's what we mentioned in terms of BSNL, our future opportunity in large of [indiscernible] or expansion of BSNL 4G network. So that is exactly what we're talking about that beyond the initial [indiscernible] sites, the [indiscernible] is looking at least 20,000-plus sites for expanding their footprint across the country.
We have time for 1 last question.
The next question is from Pankaj Kumar, which is an individual investor.
Yes. So I wanted to know what is the amount of order book [indiscernible] the last quarter. What is the order mix in terms of India government, India private and international? And can you give some color on what kind of orders have been [indiscernible] on the company in the last quarter?
No. Are you talking about the new orders run during the quarter?
In Q2, I'm talking about Q2, the order [indiscernible].
We don't really [ speak ] to that level. I think the orders won and the backlog we [ do ] categorize as India and international and whatever is there is. And we kind of don't disclose the individual bookings to a quarter [indiscernible] number, but we kind of give a [indiscernible] overall backlog and some color regarding domestic and international on that.
So look, as part of closing, again, I want to thank the team. The teams has executed really well, we've delivered a lot on our orders. and we will continue to stay focused and execute as we deliver and also secure our portfolio. I mean the process hopefully gain more customers, more markets and build a healthy business. Thank you.
On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.