Tata Power Company Ltd

NSE:TATAPOWER

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Tata Power Q3 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]

Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha, MD and CEO of Tata Power. Thank you, and over to you, Dr. Sinha.

[Audio Gap] And thank you for joining on the call. I'm joined with my colleagues over here, Sanjeev Churiwala, CFO; Mr. J.V. Patil, Financial Controller; Mr. Rajesh Lachhani from Investor Relations and other the members from our Finance and Investor Relations team.

As all of you are aware, last 9 months, the demand of power has gone up, but not to the extent what we had witnessed in the previous few years. But we do find that in last 1 month, the demand of power has increased. And we are expecting that this year, the summer will be much more intense compared to the last year, where we had a very long monsoon.

Considering that, we do expect that there will be a peak demand of nearly 265 to 270 gigawatts. Already today, it was more than 230 gigawatts. And summer has still not started. So we do expect huge demand of power in the coming year.

Secondly, during the recent budget, honorable Finance Minister came out with a lot of initiatives and programs in the power sector. Some of the important ones are that the budget for PM Surya Ghar has been enhanced for this year as well as for next year and that gives us a lot of opportunity to increase our rooftop program, especially the PM Surya Ghar program in many of the states, where we have tied up with them for taking it forward.

The second big announcement by the Finance Minister was about nuclear power that the Nuclear Power Act will be amended, which will allow private sector investment in nuclear power. As we have shared with you earlier, we will definitely be exploring this opportunity as and when it comes.

We are expecting the government to announce the amendments to the act and also the policy, wherein we will get an idea what sort of foreign investment, what sort of foreign technology, what sort of Indian technology will be provided and also issues about the sourcing of fuel, how to reprocess the spent fuel and storage of the fuel.

So many of these are still gray areas, and we expect that in the coming months, more details will be shared. And at that stage, we will be able to come out with our action plan on it.

Of course, as an initial comment, we are very keen to pursue this. We strongly believe that this will support us in our clean energy initiatives, and we can use this along with our renewable power to supply 24/7 clean power solutions to our customers, both utility scale as well as the C&I customers.

We have already shared with you the performance highlights of the company. This is the 21st consecutive quarter, in which we have shown the PAT growth. And this demonstrates the strong performance of each of our businesses. And each one of them are now getting consolidated and stabilized in terms of their performance.

Our PAT for the quarter has gone up. Our EBITDA has gone up. And both have also gone up on a cumulative basis in the last 9 months, and this trend will continue going forward.

We have, during this quarter, commissioned a number of projects. These are large renewable utility scale projects for ourselves as well as large number of projects have been commissioned for third party. And those details have again been shared with you. And this has supported us in showing very good performance of our renewable business.

Our EBITDA for the renewable business itself has gone up by 38%. And also our PAT has gone of the renewable business in this quarter as well as for the full 9 months. During this quarter, we have seen a huge amount of growth in our rooftop business. For the first time we crossed in the quarter, INR 500 crores of revenue with a very healthy EBITDA and PAT.

And you will see that this continuing in the subsequent quarters because the benefit of creating the whole supply chain arrangement, the benefit of having large channel partners and our reach into the market. And the product quality and service that is being offered is being appreciated by the consumers and we actually get a premium in the market for the supplies that we are making.

Our cell plant, which we had taken many of you and shown our cell and module plants are performing very well. Our module plant has got record production done in the last quarter and also in the 9 months. And our cell plant, which was commissioned in the month of November, the first 2 gigawatts is now more or less stabilized.

The second 2 gigawatt also has been commissioned in January and is under stabilization process. And we expect that within February, it will get stabilized and will be able to produce at full capacity during the next financial year.

We have also seen our performance in our distribution business stabilizing. Our Odisha operations have stabilized, and we are doing a very good work in terms of our billing efficiency, collection efficiency and AT&C loss reduction.

And the performance in third quarter has been much better than compared to last year and the previous quarter. And also, the fourth quarter will be, again, much better than the third quarter and second quarter and also compared to last year because many of these things and initiatives in terms of technology, in terms of our interventions, which we have carried out, will start showing better results.

Our transmission business, again, we've done a huge amount of work. We won 4 bids and construction activity of all those 4 projects are going up -- going on. And we expect that in FY '26, all of them will be completed, excepting one. And the benefit of that in terms of revenue, EBITDA and PAT will start coming from FY '26 onwards.

During the last 9 months, we have spent CapEx of nearly INR 12,000 crores, which was the total CapEx that we spent in the previous financial year. And we have plans to spend another INR 10,000 crores in this quarter. So we'll have end of the year total CapEx of nearly INR 22,000 crores.

And these are all in the various projects that we are implementing, whether it is in the renewable space or it is in group captive or it is in the manufacturing of 4 gigawatts or it is in our transmission and distribution projects. And many of them are based on ROE basis.

So once implemented and capitalized, we'll start getting the return on them. As also those which -- where we have bid out, we will start getting returns on them also based on the returns that we have projected at the time of bidding.

Our debt today is -- our net debt is about INR 44,700 crores, and our debt to equity is 1.1:1 and our debt -- net debt to underlying EBITDA is less than 3. So in terms of the financial metrics, we continue to be very good, and we do expect that we will maintain the discipline of meeting the financial metrics based on the performance of the company.

As we move forward, we are committed to our overall goal that we will achieve 70% of clean energy by 2030. We are already at 43%, and the various projects, which are under implementation, we should be in a position to meet those targets.

I now look forward to have your questions. And with me is the company's CFO, Sanjeev Churiwala, and we'll try to respond to most of them. I now request Davin to open the Q&A -- open the floor for Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] We have the first question from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.

So my first question is on the nuclear power business. What is your expectation of the new business model? Is it fair to expect that this will be a cost-plus kind of model? And the related question is that, do you think the time line of the small model nuclear reactor can be reduced to 3 to 4 years?

See, we still do not have details, but whatever little that we know of it, the whole process of approval, and these are nuclear plants, so they have a very stringent requirement of getting approval not only from the forest and the environment aspect, but also from the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board.

It all takes about 24 months. And thereafter, the construction period is 4 to 5 years. So it's a little longish, but I can assure you that these projects are today becoming very common in various parts of the world. And I think with many of the new technologies coming in, we should be in a position to implement it much faster in the country. But these are very early days. Let's get more details, and then we'll be able to share with you the real time lines and implementation plan.

Understood. My second question is, sir, have you heard anything incrementally on the approved list of module manufacturer's cell list? Is the list being prepared? Or do you think it will get published over maybe with a delay of 4 to 6 months? And how do you think about the implementation of this?

So already the module -- approved list of module manufacturer is already in place since last year, 1st April 2024. And the approved list of cell manufacturers will get implemented from 1st June 2026. And I think it has already been extended, it's -- earlier for cells, it was 1st April '26. Now it has been extended to 1st July 2026. And I don't expect that this will get extended beyond that.

And when do you expect this first list of the approval list to get published and notified?

I think they have already started visiting various of the plants, and Ministry is carrying out the due diligence exercise. They'll definitely do it much before the 1st June 2026 time line.

Understood. My last question is, sir, what is the revenue reversal in EPC business during the quarter? Can you please help this?

Okay. I think this is more about truing up the accounts. As you are aware, that our EPC business, which was a separate legal entity, has now become an entity. Per say, the intercompany billing is not happening. And as such, the top revenue is lower because we have kind of trued up about INR 300-odd crores to reflect the correct accounting principles post merger. But that has no implications on the profitability.

But sir, margins are looking very high, sir, 16% in the quarter. Is that the right thinking?

Yes. Optically, that's correct because the top line is lower, but the profitability still continues to be there it is. The best way is to look at the YTD number, which reflects the right position, and they're kind of in the range of 5% to 7% on EPC margin, which has always been our guidance.

The next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital.

Sir, the first one is on the renewables cluster result. The elimination within renewables for revenue at about INR 1,806 crores appears to be higher than the Solar EPC or the TP Solar revenue for the quarter. Even in EBITDA, the elimination number is higher than the entire EBITDA contribution of TP Solar. How should we read these elimination numbers? And what was the third-party sale that you did in TP Solar during the quarter? So if you could sort of explain the breakup of this elimination and how should we read it?

Yes, that's good question, Sumit. I think let me kind of simplify and answer your question so that it helps everyone else. Higher the level of internal work that happens, higher the elimination. For example, this quarter, our cell modules have gone live, and we have the modules also been going live, full production is happening.

This modules and cells, by and large, is sold internally to TPREL, and that gets eliminated. Similarly, all the EPC in-house work that we do, the profit of also that gets eliminated. Now elimination, we have to unfortunately only show in one line because otherwise, there will be multiple eliminations shown at each of the levels, that might not be useful.

So if you see the investors deck that is circulated, there is detailing around that. And I think you can see Slide #53, which would give you, let's say, detailing of the requirement with respect to how much of the work was intended and how much was third party, we can possibly send you out separately.

Okay. So just a follow-up on this. Still the ALMM2 is implemented by June 2026, is there an opportunity to make higher profit by selling your backward integrated modules, which have cells made in-house to third-party customers rather than using them in-house?

Yes. As of now, a large chunk of this production is tied up for our in-house large-scale projects that we have already tied up. We have a large order book already in position as well as we have third-party order books that we need to also commission the projects.

But yes, going forward, we will be opportunistic to see wherever the opportunity is there as and when the ALMM is taking in to sell some of the cells and modules to third party as well. So we'll do the balancing act.

Yes. But we have already got some orders and they are under execution. We've got one of order recently, which is for ALMM. Last year, we had got an order for DCR. So as and when we get the opportunity, we definitely look at it. And so there will be a mix of supply only of modules. There will be a mix of using it in our own projects. There will be a bit of supplying it for a rooftop and the third party EPC projects.

So we will always be ensuring that based on the production capacity and the type of modules which are required because these modules also are of different capacities and sizes. So they are 540, 570, and 590. So depending upon the requirements, so we can play and manufacture accordingly.

As Dr. Sinha was speaking, I see already a note coming in that Tata Power has won solar -- SECI's option for supplying 400 megawatt of domestically manufactured solar modules. So very clearly, you will already see that happening in the next quarter with the sale as well as in-house.

Well, I think I couldn't have expected a faster delivery on expectation. So one more question is on the increase in Mundra Coal and Shipping Q3 FY '25 EBITDA. So what explains that? And on the other hand, this gets taken away by the steep drop in others, including Tata Power, Nelco and intercluster elimination, which has dropped in Q3 FY '25 versus Q3 FY '24.

In general, the intersegment elimination volatility in quarterly disclosures over the last several quarters has been hampering the predictability or the understanding of Tata Power financials, and some way to remedy that would be very helpful.

Yes, sure. Point taken. We'll definitely see what other things we need to do to try and improve the disclosures. But of course, we have put a complete separate slide on there, which has line-wise items on the additions and the deletions, which kind of gives a better understanding.

But coming to your question, on the one-off that you see possibly in the current year as well as in the previous year. For our generation business of thermal and hydro, we had some one-off upside, which is close to about INR 330-odd crores. Similarly, previous year, we had about INR 311 crores of dividend -- accumulated dividend from one of our foreign subsidiaries, right? But both of them are getting netted off with almost a similar amount.

INR 3.3 billion is what I heard, the one-off?

INR 311 crores.

In Mundra, is how much?

Mundra is INR 332 crores.

Okay. Just one quick question, if I may. The transmission auction bids, as you have shown in your presentation for India, have gone up quite sharply, 2.3x over FY '24. Tata Power will off late is still a very small fraction of this opportunity. Is the bidding too aggressive or the IRR suboptimal? Or are you already full in terms of how many you want?

Our total operating lines plus under construction is a little over 6 -- 7 gigawatts. And of course, we are also very selective in our bidding. We don't want to go and bid out everywhere where we think that the returns are suboptimal or we think the territory, the geography and the complexities are very high, the risk could be very, very high. So yes, we have been very selective. But in this selectiveness, we're also trying to see that we only bid for projects where we get good returns.

I meant the transmission auction bids?

I'm also talking about the transmission auction. Our total capacity -- exactly, I used the word gigawatt, read as circuit kilometers. So about 7,000 circuit kilometers is what we have operational and in pipeline.

The next question is from the line of Apoorva Bahadur from IIFL.

Sir, I would request some more help on the accounting for solar cell module business, right? How should we think about it, especially, say, going ahead if -- once the manufacturing arm starts supplying modules for the rooftop business, then where will exactly will you be capturing this profitability both for internal sales and then for external sales? And what proportion?

See, I will not be able to tell you the proportion right now. But your question is very valid. In principle, whatever is sold outside will get captured in the manufacturing division's profitability and that will fully get consolidated in the Tata Power renewable books as well, whereas whatever is done in-house, would ultimately get eliminated.

Since this particular quarter, we are just ramping up our cell production, it will not give us complete true understanding on how this manufacturing and sales profitability will look like. Maybe from next quarter onwards, we'll try and bring in a little more clarity on how we kind of do a proper reporting with respect to the investors, so you get a better clarity.

And what we will do is, we'll also not wait for the next quarter. We will also reach out to you separately, so who wants to have a better understanding as to how the specific accounting will happen.

That will be helpful. Also wanted to check about the stabilization of our cell capacity. Have we managed to stabilize the plant? And what was the output for this quarter?

As I mentioned to you, the 2 gigawatt cell line got commissioned in the month of November. That has got stabilized. It's now nearly at 90% capacity. The second 2 gigawatts got commissioned in this January. And we expect that in end of February, it should get stabilized. So that's the existing plan and the full benefit of operating it at more than 95% to 98% capacity will happen in the next financial year.

So we'll reach there by FY '26. And sir, where are we using these cells for our internal projects? Or are we selling them to third parties?

I explained to you just now, again, you are repeating the same question. I told you that there are 3 ways of using it, third-party sales, third-party EPC projects, our own EPC projects and using it in rooftop.

No, sir, I wanted to check if you can share for this quarter, if you can share where the cells were sold?

Yes. We can provide that to you separately, not a problem. But I think it will be better to wait for the results for the next quarter because this quarter, we are just ramping up. It will not give you a complete good representative for your modeling as well.

Understood. Understood. Sir, last question was on the ordering for wind turbines. Have we locked capacity for our complex projects?

So as we have shared with you, 1,000 megawatts, we had already -- in fact, 1,100-odd megawatts, we have already done. Those wind turbines are already under implementation. And all of them will get commissioned in the next 3 months to 12 months. There's another 1.6 gigawatts that we will be ordering. All this ordering will happen in the next 60 days.

The next question is from the line of Puneet from HSBC.

My first question is on renewable. Can you give some sense of what is the capacity installation plan for FY '26 and '27?

Sorry, could you just repeat your question once again?

Yes. What is the capacity installation plan for FY '26 and '27?

I think we have given that in the November analyst meeting, we have given that details.

Individually for '26 and '27 if you have.

It's there in terms of...

Puneet -- I think Puneet, just to kind of recall was discussed and presented. Normally, what we have said, our intention is to have about on a rough definitely 2 gigawatt of installations every year.

2 to 2.5 gigawatts.

2 to 2.5 gigawatts of every year. Of course, we cannot as of now give you specifically what we are doing next year and thereafter, but indicated this is the number that we're targeting at.

Yes. So what's resulting in a little slowness here, right? I mean, you're probably going to do -- what is the plan for Q4, but it looks like you might just see about 1.2 to 1.3 gigawatts. Any thoughts how to think about what's driving the slowness currently?

So we have already this year added 865 megawatt, which is highest among all the renewable players in the country. And we have a large number of projects lined up, I think, about 600 megawatts is lined up in this quarter. And then we expect also projects for third-party EPC to be implemented in this project -- in this quarter.

So all those details have been shared with you. And as Sanjeev mentioned, in FY '25 -- '26 and '27, about 2 to 2.5 gigawatt of renewable projects, which will be a mix of solar and wind that we will implement.

Okay, understood. And on TPDDL side, there seems to be a little softness in profitability. Anything to know would there?

No, it is doing consistent of profit this quarter also. If you compare -- compared to last year, it has done a little bit higher. So it's a very consistent performance that have been shown by TPDDL.

And lastly, if you can give some update on the pump storage project. Have you placed an order? What is the progress there?

So the preproject activities has already started and basic site civil work has started. The order for civil will be finalized within this month, and we also expect the last of the clearances. And full-fledged work will start from next month.

The work in the hydro project in Bhutan has started in January, and it is going at full pace at all the locations. That is the pump house as well as the dam as well as the surge shaft. So I think we are all set to complete it within the target time line. And so also the pump hydro we will finish it in the target time line that we have shared.

So specifically for Bhivpuri, which was the first one, is financial closure done now?

We have already tied up money for the initial work and the financial closure will be done by next month.

The next question is from the line of Ketan Jain from Avendus Spark.

Sir, my question is on the UP DISCOM bid, which you can provide us with some flavor on what's the time line of the bid? And will we be bidding for it, something about that?

I also do not know the time line. When I come to know, I'll let you know. But what I can tell you is that there is an intention by UP to go ahead and do public private partnership for 2 DISCOMs. We are actively pursuing that and -- or we will actively pursue that because we have excellent experience of carrying out similar type of work in Odisha, where we were able to cater to both urban and rural consumers, which no other utility has experienced in the country. And as and when the bids come, we will definitely bid and we expect that we'll be able to be successful in bid space.

The next question is from the line of Satyadeep Jain from AMBIT Capital.

First, I wanted to understand, RE, all these eliminations. You reported separately EBITDA for the module in cell line. If I look at the EBITDA, it seems like for EBITDA for cell also, it is assuming it is sold for DCR, looking at the margin. So whatever you're doing internal or external, it seems to be at arm's length.

But when we look at Y-o-Y, if I strip out EBITDA from module in cell line, there is no increase in overall RE EBITDA. What could be -- which is what I think some of the earlier questions were also trying to understand. So I just wanted to see why is there no Y-o-Y growth in the overall RE business if we take out cell and module line?

I think the cell and module line is an integrated part of the overall business unlike many other businesses, which will set up for cell or a module only to cater to third parties. Our cell and module is part of our integration plan where it caters to a large extent of our in-house requirement with respect to a large-scale development that we do and as well as the third party, right?

So yes, to that extent the production of cell, which is largely around DCR, has gone to in-house production as well, as well as some content of the third party. But your question is, can we strip that and see separately. I don't think that we'll have any useful purpose by stripping it out separately. Was your question different?

No, I was trying to understand if you look at cluster-wise performance for the entire RE business, if you look at Y-o-Y increase in EBITDA for that business is about INR 230 crores to INR 240 crores, which is the EBITDA for the module and cell line. So it's the entire EBITDA increase Y-o-Y is because of module and cell line. So why are the other businesses -- why is there not -- generally, I would have assumed the EBITDA increase would be higher than that contribution from solar cell and module, there would be higher generation EBITDA, higher EPC. But on a cluster-wise, the Y-o-Y increase is only INR 230 crores to INR 240 crores.

Yes. So we'll have to see the elimination, because when you look at the separate clients, those are basically gross contribution from the respected units, right? You want to put it together and then you have to eliminate the cross unit billing that is happening. So that way it is a bit billing content.

On a Y-o-Y basis as compared to almost INR 750 crore of EBITDA that we made previous year, this quarter, we are almost very close to INR 1,000 crores. So to that extent, there have been about INR 240-odd crore of increase in the EBITDA, right?

And also, if you look at Slide #54, you will see the renewable separate business is coming in the elimination as well. But my sense is to get very specific to what you are needing, why don't you get in touch with us, and we'll be able to help clarify that better.

Sure, sure. So secondly, this nuclear opportunity, I wanted to understand, if I look at the pretender bid, which is out there from NPCIL, it seems like this is mainly targeted at high energy-intensive industries like steel, cement and data centers, which these customers put up the capital and the asset is actually owned and operated by NPCIL.

So how does a developer fit into this picture? Is it like going to be similar to a group captive scheme, which we have for RE where the customer puts up 26% equity. Is that the understanding? And then how -- initially, if you look at -- evaluate this, I know it's far out in the future, but in terms of economics and all, any preliminary idea how this looks like?

I think the bid document, which came from NPCIL was before the announcement by the Finance Minister. And I am not very sure that whether it will go through now in the changed circumstances because at that time, they had no plans of private sector being a participant accepting that. They gave the money and the nuclear island will be owned and operated by NPCIL. So I think the whole arrangement is gone -- changed now with the announcement from the Finance Minister.

And I think we should wait and watch for what eventually -- because now the game has changed fully because they'll allow private sector to come in and what sort of arrangement it will be there, whether they will allow foreign participants, foreign technology or it will only be Indian technology. So I think let's wait and watch and get more details before we are able to take a call on it.

And any sense on economics at all or too early to say?

Economics will be very good, but a little early to say, whatever initial numbers that we have seen, it will be very good.

Just one more question, if I can squeeze on the EPC business. There was no new order inflow for third-party utility, including the captive book, what is the strategy there? And on solar rooftop, you're assuming 3 million households in the next 3 years. That seems like a big step-up from where you are, both in terms of market share and overall opportunities.

So how much is the solar rooftop as a country? What is the execution so far? What is the market share for Tata Power? And what mix you think that this 3 million is achievable. So 2-part question on the overall third-party utility EPC book and then on rooftop solar.

So we have a very large third-party EPC book, including DCR modules where we have to supply. Most of them are getting executed in this year and part of it will get executed in the next financial year. We have undergone a change in the way we were doing EPC. We now do pure EPC without land. Earlier, we used to acquire land also for the EPC projects. So we do not do that.

Secondly, we wanted to execute all these projects before we take more orders and plan as a part of our order book. We already also have now large in-house order book, where we have more than -- plans of adding more than 2 gigawatt per year. So we will be very cautious and careful in terms of taking third-party EPC orders.

We will more concentrate on our own EPC projects under our group captive as well as utility scale. And secondly, we also have opportunity to sell modules, especially the DCR modules, where we can get better margins. So we will decide on what is the mix of third-party EPC, our own EPC and the module supply and then take a call.

Request, if you could refer to Slide #32 of the uploaded deck that has bid amount of details of the breakup.

This is on the PM Surya Ghar and rooftop opportunity.

Slide 37 as well, 32 and 37.

But FY '25 so far, that in terms of overall rooftop execution in the country and how much -- it seems like a big step up if you look at your own target for 3 million in the next 3 years?

See, this was announced by the Prime Minister in January, and it took time for all the state governments and others to come to speed. So I think FY '25, that sort of enabling provisions have not happened in some of the states. The state government support orders have only come in November or January.

So let's see whether the various entities and also the state governments have created necessary infrastructure for executing these or not. And I think that has been done very well, you will see a great amount of push in the coming year when many of these where people have registered will get executed in the coming years.

The next question is from the line of Anuj Upadhyay from Investec.

And many of my questions have been answered. It's just a follow-up question which I have on two aspects. One is, your renewable generation business, in spite of 25% of capacity addition from 4.2 gigawatt to 5.2 gigawatt of commissioning, the profitability growth hasn't been much. I understand the PLFs were down, but it was marginally by 60, 70 or 80 bps as such. So are these profitability numbers which have been reported, are they run rate numbers or is just a timing issue which has led to an underperformance in terms of profitability?

So you're right, there are 2 points to it. A, definitely, this is not a run rate. Quarter 3, normally are weaker quarter for every solar company because the radiations are low. And to the extent the average radiation that we kind of factored in this time was also low. And that to extent has impacted some of our margins.

And of course, there was a slight delay in some of our projects because of various reasons that has been factored into the PAT. But going forward, that's not what we have envisaged. The run rate would definitely be much better than this. You can refer to Slide #62 of the uploaded deck that has the breakup of all these elements.

Also, how -- if you see on a 9-month basis, the generation is much higher than compared to last year. So what we have to see is because also of the weather pattern change, like this year, the monsoon was much longer and was right up to October. So many of the solar plants would not generate, which they could have otherwise done. So I think what is important is to see a 12-month rolling plan rather than just going on a quarter-to-quarter basis.

Fair point, sir. Secondly, on the nuclear segment. Any ballpark figure which you can throw on the CapEx per megawatt on this media added or maybe plant nuclear capacity and what anticipated tariffs for unit would it translate to? I know it's premature, but still any approximate figure would be helpful, sir.

I cannot throw any figure on this. See, what happens is that these are all dependent on from where you are getting the technology, what is the capacity of the plant and what is the efficiency of these plants. The efficiency of these plants goes from 70% to 90%. So it all depends on what is the commitment that the supplier or the technology partner is giving in this.

And secondly, apart from the CapEx, what is important is this is the sourcing of the fuel. So from where you will source uranium, what is the cost at which -- is it on a bilateral government to government basis. So there are a whole lot of unknown things which are there at this present. And I would not like to hazard a guess on these numbers at this stage.

Okay. Okay. And any update on the section level continuation from Mundra plant?

As I mentioned to you that there is a huge demand of power, and I expect that to meet this additional demand of power. All the imported coal-based plants will be asked to continue operations. And we do expect that government will take the call on this in the later part of this month.

Okay. And just a last one, sir, on the debt across WREL project. It has been zeroed in the current quarter. That has been completely paid up or it's been realigned to some other segment, sir?

Yes. So about 25 companies have now been merged with TPREL and that merger is effective from 1st of April. So the financials that you see is of a merged entity.

Okay. So the WREL debt has been now moved to TPREL is what you are trying to say. Am I right, sir?

Yes. So WREL is basically a genco, generating company and as part of our strategy, we have moved it and merged it with TPREL, which also has a large portfolio of genco. So we didn't want to have separate SPVs for separate gencos, so most of them are merged together.

WREL itself, what about 22-odd companies. So if you see Slide #66, you kind of find the details between quarter 3 and quarter 2. Quarter 2 of F '25 versus there, which will kind of give you a good reflection of the merged entities.

The next question is from the line of Rajesh Majumdar from B&K Securities.

So my first question, I may have missed this earlier, but what is the impact of the APTEL claim on the third quarter results from Mundra. Is there -- did you give a number? I may have missed it? Did you -- you mentioned in the note #3 on the APTEL order and some claim provision has been made in the third quarter. What is that figure?

Maybe I will not have it off hand, but if you write it to us separately or get in touch with Rajesh, he will providing the details.

Okay. So it is not INR 322 crores, as you mentioned earlier on some figure. This is not the same number, right? Not INR 322 crores.

So there are a combination of things over there. Now question is very, very specific to a litigation, right? So we want to be very clear on what we're providing you.

Okay. So I just wanted to assess the impact of that as a onetime on the stand-alone performance has been significantly higher this quarter?

No, because I think I had mentioned earlier that there is a one-off now, which is INR 332-odd crores. And there was a one-off earlier of INR 311 crores. So by and large, that one-off gets netted off. So per se, the number that you see is already a like-for-like number.

All right. So it's netted about INR 20 crores only, that's it?

Yes.

Okay. Sir, my next question is on the Odisha DISCOM. If you look at the 9-month run rate of the Odisha DISCOMs, we are going at a run rate much significantly lower than last year. And at the same time, last year, we were having a run rate of nearly somewhere around INR 200-odd crores and now it's about INR 150 crores at the PAT level.

So we had a target of hitting a INR 250 crore kind of PAT level in the DISCOM, except for CESU, all the other -- I mean, South and West are particularly lagging. Is there any reason for this? And when do we see some kind of change in these numbers?

What typically happens in Odisha or has happened in the last year, in the first quarter, we could not do much because there were elections in Odisha and because of that reason, a lot of action on billing collection could not be done. It has got up in the last quarter.

And the last quarter, that is the present quarter, you will see a substantial improvement on billing efficiency, collection efficiency, which has the impact on the AT&C. So we'll definitely do much better than what you see now, and there will be substantial improvement going forward.

And secondly, sir, are you bidding for any other DISCOM in terms of all the opportunities that are coming up now in India, what the Finance Minister also spoke about. Any circles that you're bidding for, which could be there in the near future?

See, we are definitely looking at opportunities. Bids have not come. So as and when the bids come, we'll definitely be looking to bid very aggressively and take few of the DISCOMs.

And just on this note, could you break up your CapEx, say, for the next 2, 3 years into the different areas? Like, how much will be from the own generation, how much will be for other things and so on and so forth? The CapEx breakup of, say, roughly INR 20,000 crores per annum that you've outlined?

I think we have shared it earlier in our analyst presentation. Rajesh will be able to mention to you which slides are there. If you see Slide 43 of the analyst presentation, you will be able to get the full details. It brings out everything of where in that traditional generation, pump storage, transmission, distribution, renewable. Slide 43.

Right, sir. I'll take a note then. If I could just have another question on this regard is that on the FDRE projects that you've like won, are you seeing any traction in terms of the PPA, et cetera? Or do you foresee delays in it? What is your own internal assessment of this segment of the business? Is it going to be like a big part of the overall scheme of things? Or is going to be slow, and there are issues with this.

I don't think we have any issue around the FDRE project.

No, no. We don't have any issue around FDRE project.

So when is the PPAs expected on this -- on the two projects that you've won in FDRE?

PPA is there.

Construction is under progress.

And I think everything is fine. Yes. Rajesh, we had also shared in our December presentation that we have PPA for 90% of the project.

So that means 1.3 gigawatt SJVN and FDRE is going to get commissioned in FY '26. Is that correct?

Yes, yes. So only the NTPC project is waiting for PPA and rest all the projects have PPAs in place.

The next question is from the line of Mithil Bhuva from Unlistedindia.com.

Congratulations on the good set of numbers. On the contrary to the peers, I feel the presentation is excellent. I mean the presentation on the results, giving breakup of so many companies with excellent presentation, sir.

Just I had a doubt on Slide #52. So when we see the numbers for Tata, that is the Delhi DISCOMs, we own only 51% stake here, but the numbers shown here, the EBITDA and the revenue is 100%, right, actually?

Yes, you're right. It's 100%...

Yes, even in the Odisha DISCOMs, we own only 51%. So is it kind of a wrong presentation because we own actually only 51% of it. So only half of it belongs to us, right?

So performance basis, the overall number comes in, and the minority interest is then eliminated below. So if you really see, whatever is consolidated, we do that. And for each of the points, we've also given a chart to explain our share around that. So I think it's very transparently given as well.

Okay. So the elimination includes those things, I mean, the 51%? No, right?

No, no. Wherever is the subsidiary, of course, the entire thing is getting consolidated, right? It's only in case of joint ventures, party where we have minority interest, we only take that respective share.

Yes, but isn't that kind of wrong presentation because we own only 51% in it, and you're showing the 100% number. So the overall EBITDA number looks bigger, but we own only 51% actually.

But that's the accounting standard. We have to consolidate it if it is a subsidiary for us.

Yes, sir. But in the presentation, at least we can give only the 51% numbers, right? I mean, not according to the accounting standard, but at least for the presentation, sir.

Yes, we can, but that will not really serve any purpose because what happens is the way I would expect the investors to look at it, I think how is it the performance of this company overall and not the performance of the 51% share that we have. So even in the notes if you see the accounts, very clearly, the profit is kind of executed broken up into for the equity shareholders and for the noncontrolling interest. That separate breakup is also there in the accounts.

Okay. Sir, also another question is that are we looking to do any fundraising -- equity fundraising to repay our high-cost debt or anything for the future big growth, so? I mean, our peers have been doing that. That's why...

I don't know what the peers, but we don't have high-cost debt.

Like the current stock price is good enough to raise funds, right, at lower rates so -- and to repay the high-cost debt. So isn't it a good opportunity?

Thank you for your advice.

We have huge demand. I mean, the retail investors just love Tata Power. So if we can do a fundraising and repay our high-cost debts well, just an idea.

Mithil, we'll have a separate chat, come over, and we'll talk to you.

Okay. So one more doubt, sir. And the coal mining, do we -- are we profitable there? Are we looking to get back to coal plants because our peers have been looking to buy coal plants? So are we looking at the coal and the power business -- the thermal business again? Anything on the acquisitions on the thermal power plant?

I think we are very clearly focusing right now on our energy transition business. And as you have heard earlier, speakers say they want to see more growth happening in the renewable sector. So I think we should focus on over there.

Okay. Sir, one last question, sir.

Sorry to interrupt. We need to move on to the next. The next question is from the line of Swati Jhunjhunwala from JM Financial PMS.

Sir most of my questions have been answered. Just one on the PM Surya Ghar Yojana. So just wanted to understand what is the average revenue per megawatt that you are seeing here that you can make given that we have such a big target of 3 million households? And secondly, what is the kind of IRR you are looking at in this solar rooftop business? Just these two for now.

So basically, the cost of 1 kilowatt of rooftop is about INR 60,000 to INR 65,000 depending upon the location. And this is on a sale basis. So that means there is no IRR in this, but there is a profit margin that you have. And those profit margins, we have shared with you in rooftops business, what sort of profit margins we normally get. And then you can see from there. So that's what we are looking at.

But the numbers that you typically end up doing are huge numbers. You would do in a year, say 1 lakh rooftop solars, or say, 3 kilowatt or 5 kilowatt, then you can imagine the type of capacity add and the type of returns you'll get from that.

And the numbers that we are seeing and the opportunity that we are seeing for ourselves based on the agreements or MoUs that we have signed in few of the states shows that we will be doing a huge number of such rooftops in the coming years.

Understood. And sir, just one more. So is there any target plan that you have yet decided for how you are going to ramp up to 3 million in 3 years? Is there any plan there that you can share right now?

Yes 3 million means 30 lakhs in 3 years means average 10 lakhs per year. It can be more also. So it all depends on how quickly we are able to streamline our processes and implement them.

We have no further questions, ladies and gentlemen. I would now like to hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Thank you all for joining for this analyst call. If you have any more queries, please connect with my colleagues from the Investor Relations. We have tried to give as much of information as possible in our presentations. But we continue to look forward for your comments so that we can further improve the presentation quality, both in terms of content and detailing. And we would be more than happy to connect with you offline also and respond to your queries. Thank you once again for joining for this call.

Thank you. On behalf of Tata Power, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.