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State Bank of India
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Gentlemen, I am Pawan Kedia, GMPPF. On behalf of the State Bank of India, it gives me great pleasure to welcome all of you, the analysts, our colleagues present in this hall. A warm welcome to all our analysts, investors, and colleagues who are joining us through the live webcast on the occasion of the declaration of the Q2 FY '19 results of the bank.We have with us on the stage our Chairman, Shri Rajnish Kumar, at the center; to his right is our Managing Director, Retail and Digital Banking, Shri Parveen Kumar Gupta; and to the left of Chairman is our Managing Director, Global Banking and Subsidiaries, Shri Dinesh Kumar Khara; our Managing Director, Commercial Client Group and IT, Shri Arijit Basu, is seated next to Shri Dinesh Kumar Khara; and our Managing Director, Stressed Assets, Risk and Compliance, Smt Anshula Kant is seated next to Shri Parveen Kumar Gupta. Our Deputy Managing Director and Chief Financial Officer, Shri Prashant Kumar is seated next to Smt Anshula Kant. Our Deputy Managing Directors, heading various verticals and Managing Directors of our subsidiaries are seated in the first row of this hall. We are also joined by chief general managers of different vertical business groups.Without further ado, we request our Chairman to highlight the bank's Q2 FY '19 performance and strategically [certain things ] undertaken thereafter, we shall right away go to questions-and-answers session. Before I hand over to Chairman, sir, I would like to read out the safe harbor provision. Good evening. Certain statements in these slides are forward-looking statements. These statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to uncertainty and changes in circumstances. Actual results may differ materially from those included in these statements due to a variety of factors. Thank you. Now I request Chairman [sir, to make his] opening remarks. Sir?
Good evening to all of you. I have a slightly bad throat, please excuse me for that. So first of all, let me wish a very happy and prosperous Diwali to you and all the stakeholders. Thank you. And today's Dhanteras and the state bank has not disappointed you.So after 3 quarters of losses, we have returned to profitability, and returned to profitability for good. It is not that this quarter it is profit and again we will have problem next quarter or quarter thereafter. With confidence, I can say that, hereafter, quarter after quarter, you will see improved performance as far as the profit and profitability goes. The profit currently, current quarter is INR 945 crores and in the given circumstances I consider it to be a fairly good performance. NPA and asset quality, that is always -- has been the issue for the last few years. Last time, also, in the earnings call for every quarter or the year-end, I mention that we are on the top of the situation and continuously you will see improvement. And the numbers for September quarter very much indicates that journey or that control over NPA continues. GNP is down below 10%, net NPA is down below 5%, provision coverage ratio has improved. These slippages are very much within the 2% guidance which bank has issued. Credit costs are also in line with the guidance issued, which is less than 2% for this year. For the quarter, if you look at it, although that number is not there, but it works out to be 1.99%. 2.27%, what you see is in fact, it is the cumulative.Another issue or another question which you are always asking, where is the credit growth for the State Bank of India. And I always used to say, please, have some patience. We are putting our house in order and you will see the credit growth, also. And that is where now you are seeing the credit growth and without growing the risk-weighted assets in any significant way. So the growth is all quality growth, on the corporate front, well-diversified growth between corporate and the retail. Our portfolio mix is now that corporate is about 40% to 42%. I don't foresee a major change in this composition. The NIM, if I exclude the impact of the recoveries which we have made in the NCLT accounts, then it has improved by almost 9 basis points over March, 2.76 versus 2.67 in March '18. Other income, because of treasury, there is a pressure, but most of the hedge is under other income, be it earnings from governed business, cross-selling, recovery in written off accounts. Everywhere, we are showing growth. And treasury, of course, not much in our control. And the overhead is, again, very well under control. Only thing is about the provisions which we are making for salary revision and gratuity. Now gratuity, when the amendment came last year in March, requirement was we have to make it in 4 quarters. So 3 quarters are over, and INR 900 crore more I will make in December. And from March onward, that money is available to us will be added or will be reflected in our net profit and the impact of the salary revision, also, Y-o-Y, we started last year in November, so that Y-o-Y impact will also start getting moderated.On the digital, it is a success story for the State Bank of India. Despite the tag of the public sector bank, where it is believed that you can't be tech-savvy or you cannot be in the forefront of the technology, but the fact is that today, State Bank of India is the leader as far as the technology innovation and digitization of the banking and financial services is concerned. You know it's giving an inferiority complex to many banks, let me tell you. And the value of our subsidiaries, we have unlocked -- unlocked means price discovery we have done. SBI General got valued at INR 12,000 crore and which is comparable to the best in the industry. Merchant acquisition business, the decision to hive off the merchant acquisition business to our already existing subsidiary and forming the joint venture with a name like Hitachi. Again, it has been a feather in the cap of SBI. It shows that -- how much value the investors are willing to give to SBI brand name, the trust it enjoys in the country and the distribution reach it has. And it was a very satisfying, I would say negotiation. And Hitachi, they have best in the class processing capability, and we are already a dominant player in the payment space, again, despite all the competition, all the noise, all the burning of the cash, but we continue to maintain our leadership. And with this joint venture, I'm very sure that we will further cement our position as far as the payment space is concerned. The opportunities are huge and State Bank of India is best place to seize this opportunity. [ LCR ] of more than 140%, no issue on liquidity, well capitalized, no issue as far as capital is concerned. And the CD ratio hovers between 66% to 67.5%. So NPL is core that, without increasing the cost of deposits, we can fund our loan growth by growing our CASA alone. So these are -- some of the performance highlights, and the presentation is already with you. We can straight away go to the question-and-answers. But I am assuring you that the value of 2019 will be much, much, much bigger what the value of 2018 has been.
Thank you, gentleman, sir, for the presentation. We now invite questions from the audience. [Operator Instructions] And the first question is from?
[indiscernible]
Right, earning a profit not showing. Earning a...
Yes, earning a profit. Because, after a gap of fighting 3 quarters, now we are coming a profit on it, a good amount of profit, near INR 2,000 crores. Otherwise, also -- I mean, overall, the results are really good in this whatever difficult conditions and situations are there. So I will not talk much about the individual, I will on the specific results only, but some of the concerns which have been developed recently with some happenings. We would like to, I mean, get some more information or will expect you to throw some more light on that like IL&FS thing, like your statement of saying that INR 45,000 crores of, I mean, opportunity is there for you to immediately increase your book and some of the -- a little more clarity on some of those statements like, last time, you said 7, 8 power cases are there in the pipeline to be resolved in a week or 2 or a month. And then RBI, SBI and government together are trying to stabilize the system quickly. Overall, NPLs are under control, of course, you have found that, yes, they are under control. And in Hyderabad, also you said that intent to return to normal from September. So from September means now from the next quarter onwards. The normalcy in the operations and the regulated ones here, then this will be there. And then last year, this thing I will just seek some affirmations on that, that the loan guidance, up 12%, NIM, up 3%, slippages and credit, less than 2%, ROA going up to almost 0.9% to 1% and this SBI General and SBI funds cards. So SBI General had a very good valuation, it has gone. And the other, also you said you have transferred to the subsidiary. In that subsidiary, that 25% which is coming in through Hitachi, how much, in the value terms, that investment going to be? So that will give some color to the number. And then, without PCR, without OCA, up 60%. So some of these -- these are the recent burning issues, if we get some light on that and some NCLT cases. So this will give an overall -- because the analysis, yes, the time was very short, especially today for individual numbers of this quarter, but I believe them to be absolutely true and correct, and prima facie, what is there is okay. So these are the few things.
All the questions in one question? And then all of the others will not have many...
Because you always count the number of questions.
So one is about the NBFC scenario and the [ default ] by IL&FS, which triggered the situation. So I believe that the situation today is much better than what it was 3 weeks ago. Most of the NBFCs, they have been able to roll over their CPs and CDs or have been able to arrange the funding. And that is what I meant that an effort is on to stabilize the sector. NBFCs play a very, very critical role today in the, what I would say, the end-mile lending. They are, in fact, better placed than many of the banks and that's why it is very important that NBFC sector continues to perform well. And in this mitigated manner with some of the NBFCs, they issue around ALMs [measure rules], but I think that is also getting corrected in this process. And portfolio purchase was one of the ideas which serves all the purpose, which helps the NBFCs to correct their ALM mismatch. And for banks like us, it is a very good opportunity to buy the portfolio. We have already bought about INR 5,200 crores in October. About INR 15,500 crores is in pipeline, so by March, we should be able to do it all.
[indiscernible] I mean why you bail them out like this?
No, no, no.
They should plan their own asset liability without the...
No, no, no.
Just taking it for granted that CPs will be renewed all the time. It becomes like a permanent term loan, permanent working capital loan.
No, that is what I was mentioning. That true portfolio purchase, what happens that the dependence on CPs is coming down. Some of the valuated companies in which market has more confidence, they are able to roll it out. RBA also, in due course, is definitely going to come out with the [ LM ] guidance for the NPFCs. So the -- sometimes there's always a silver lining and the silver lining in NPFC, I won't use the word crisis, that becomes a -- sort of a very strong word, but the situation which developed, it very clearly showed that the ALM, which was not being given so much attention, needs to be given attention, and that is where the course correction will take place. Their underlying portfolio, most of them, they have good underlying portfolio. We have been purchasing the goods from them in the past. We are aware of their lending practices. We are aware of their quality of the pool which we can expect so this is the best way to do the course correction. And instead of CP, if they go for a longer term and CD of 3 to 5 years, that will be a much better option for them. Obviously, there will be some pressure on the margin and that margin they must sacrifice for the sake of their own safety and the safety of the sector. Power sector is still working. Some of the assets, the resolution is very much in sight, and in any case, whether resolution happens before NCLT through the insolvency process or outside that, we will continue to provide as and when the requirement of provisioning is there as for the aging. And if any asset gets resolved, then whatever is the recovery in the short term, we will provide. Currently, on our portfolio of NPA of INR 32,000 crores, we have a provision of 41%. So maybe another I need 10%, 12%, which is not a huge amount for us. And we are sitting on a provision write-back of almost INR 6,000 crores in 1 NCLT account. And -- so that will like -- the overall we have to look at what is the provision coverage ratio and I take it more from non-OCA. OCA, if I include here, is 70.74%, which is almost the highest in the industry, but otherwise, also, 54% for the portfolio. And if I look at retail, where we have lower and corporate we have higher at 57%, 58%. So by March 20, in any case, I intend to continue to increase our provision coverage issue and there will be a situation where the recovery or the provision or write-back and additional provision, they will be more or less become meshed. So that, with the balance sheet of the bank, is much stronger today even than what it was in the September '17. The slippages, 2%, I am again saying that we are very much on course both in terms of slippages as well as credit costs. This quarter, also, we have made INR 10,000 crore-plus provision. I don't foresee a situation where I will be making more provision than this in the coming 2 quarters. It will be in the same range, maybe a bit better there, lower than what we have made but the policy or the strategy which bank is adopting is to make the provisions up front as much as possible and I don't want to leave even a trace of overhang of the past credit cost on my future earnings. So that is what the direction in which bank is working. Their future earnings should remain protected and be steady. Otherwise, all the elements which go into calculation of the earnings, be it on the income side or on the expenses side, everything is very much on the right track. There are some aberrations. Treasury income, of course, is under pressure and till such time there is the softening of the yields, which is now visible, but we have to see whether it is on a sustainable basis the yields come down. So that should bring back the treasury profits. And as I said, that staff costs are all under control. Overheads are very much under control and will continue to remain under control. And as a result of this, as on date, I don't foresee a situation where we will not be able to meet whatever budget or target we have set for ourselves for financial year '19 as well as financial year 2020. So I think that covers all your questions. Anything you're waiting?
[indiscernible]
And maybe merchant acquisition business. We have transferred our merchant acquisition. We already had a subsidiary, PSPL, that was doing, right now, the marketing. But now all of our POS machines, our acceptance business, that is being transferred and has been transferred to this company. And there, Hitachi will be picking up 26% stake, and they have given valuation of INR 6,000 crore. For the?
[indiscernible]
For the entity. So 25% would bring in about INR 1,500 crores for us. IL&FS, not much cause of worry, so. To us...
[indiscernible]
But whatever resolutions happen under the leadership of the new board, SBI will be very much part of that resolution.
So, so, in fact, if the power accounts were to be resolved under NCLT, will their PPAs remain valid?
That is something we have to leave to the discounts, but the idea was to resolve outside NCLT because of this uncertainty. It is not certain whether all discounts will terminate or not terminate. But because power sector plays a very critical role and we cannot afford -- or rather the country can't afford the power sector goes down under. I am hoping that better sense would prevail and nothing would be done so that there is the problem for the power generators, particularly IPP, increases. It will be very counterproductive, so whenever and whoever will be taking the decision, they cannot ignore this fact.
So address with the discounts only. There's no way you can...
It all depends upon how the PPA is structured. So each PPA may be different.
Okay, sir [ So I know ], are there any NCLT-based recoveries through the NII this quarter?
Pardon?
Were there any NCLT-based recoveries?
Not this quarter, the previous quarter.
So not this quarter?
Not this quarter.
Okay. And so our last question that there were 2 steel accounts under discussion -- or we just say under discussion. So one you mentioned about the provisioning and D2 to D3. The other, which was repaid fully, what will be the accounting treatment for that in the third quarter?
No. Whatever was repaid, all accounting has been done in second quarter and that's why you saw the interest income was higher. And there are 2 steel accounts which still remain to be resolved. One we have already mentioned. And the second one, our provision is aligned with the estimated loss. So NCLT 1, we are sitting, as I said, on a write-back of INR 6,000 crores as and when -- which happens, and that takes care of all accounts in NCLT 1. NCLT 2, 3 accounts already resolved. We are expecting 2 to 3 more -- 2, 3 other. In my view, everything should be resolved.
The account that was repaid or...
That was done in the first quarter itself, June.
No, no, I'm talking about [indiscernible]
That one will be taken in quarter 3, the money given in October.
No, which one we are talking about [indiscernible]? Oh, this one will come in quarter 3.
See that will -- I think, for us, the reduction in NPA is more than INR 2,000 crores for all those 3 accounts. Some of it will go towards OCA write-back, provision write-back, interest and commit split. We expect, at least, we have write-back of more than INR 1,300 crores on account of...
Sorry, sorry, I can't.
P&L impact of around INR 1,300 crores on account of these deals?
3,300?
1,300 crores.
1,300 crores.
1,300 crores?
1,300 crores.
Oh.
And NPA of about 2,000 crores.
Oh, [indiscernible]
Yes? Yes.
[indiscernible] last quarter. My first question is [indiscernible] in the last quarter [indiscernible] watch list was 2.3 billion. Of this, around 2,400 crores have slipped. And any addition or any other reduction apart from slippages?
So we are not adding to the watch list because that is prepared at the beginning of the year. So as you can see, 2,400 crores have slipped out of that, and now we have a remainder of 20,359 crores. So we now have to see. We are -- and this includes SME 1 and 2. And as of this quarter, as you can see, the slippage is only 3,189 in corporate. That is the entire bank's [corporate].
Because sir, during the quarter there were a few sectors which have seen downgrades, maybe airline and some other sectors. So have we included that in our -- this watch list?
No, no. The...
The watch list, we don't change.
The watch list, we...
Watch list, at the beginning of the year on account...
It's a dynamic watch list, and the reason is you keep on earning. We keep on removing whatever goes to NPA. That's...
Sure. And just a second question, sir. Last quarter we had shared -- on top of this fund-based watch list, there was some non-fund-based exposure, which was somewhere around 15,000-odd crores, including on this watch list as well as on NPA. So can we get the numbers as of 2Q?
In Q2, the increase in outstanding is just 137 crore. And last quarter was also -- what happened was the account was fully provided in non-fund based. It was [ SBLC ]. And it got converted into fund based, and it caused so much noise on this thing. But the -- in relation to the NPA, the NFB exposures are not very large as of now.
So there is no change, let's say, from...
Not particularly. No change, yes. 137 crore.
In fact, it is coming down. On total NPAs also, our total NPAs, our fund-based -- non-fund-based is less than 6% of this thing.
It's reflected in this quarter's. If you see, the slippage is 10,725 crores, and the gross slippage is 10,888 crores. So this is more normal than what happened last quarter because as Chairman explained, it was related to a particular account, which we had already provided. And it - that is very unusual. This is what you are seeing, is what is more likely to...
And sir, just lastly...
Next...
Sir, on this, we have not followed the IRAC norm in particular to this steel account. Any sort of repercussion that it may have? I mean, it is justified because the recovery is likely to be very soon. But any sort of repercussions that you can think of?
I...
Thank you.
I don't think that there will be any repercussion because what we have done is very logical in the sense that I'm searching on almost 6,000 crore of profit. And because of aging, we have to recognize this account as D3. But it doesn't make sense to make provision, particularly when we know that the recovery is sure. 112% can become 108%. Even that is unlikely. So in such a scenario, it did not make sense, and that's why in respect of provision, we have maintained the status quo. So what can the repercussion, I really don't know. So...
We are already having very significant provision on this particular account. We just did not add to it.
So we have taken it back.
It's not that we don't have [indiscernible].
So maintaining status quo, I think, was a logical -- otherwise, my quarterly result would not present a fair and true picture. So you don't underprovide, but you don't over provide also.
Next question, please.
Sir, the NCLT top 4 accounts have almost been resolved, the balance accounts. We are looking at a haircut of 77.9%, which is a staggering amount of 2 lakhs 65,000 crore. Your comments on that, number one. Number two, your provisions are around 53%, overall?
Where?
Overall.
Overall.
Yes.
54%.
Yes. So how do we stand?
So NCLT 1, NCLT 2, these are 2 different lists. NCLT 1 -- I was just writing; you came a bit late. But NCLT 1, we are sitting on a provision write-back of 6,000 crore, right, in respect of an account rule. And just of the accounts, our provision and the estimated losses fully align. So when -- as and when the money comes in or resolution happens, it will have impact on our GNPA. GNPA will go down, but it will have no impact on my P&L. And in NCLT 2, we have a provision of nearly 80%. There also, the recovery, my expectation is it will be around 30% or plus. So there also, they will be like that. On overall provision, non OCA basis corporate and retail. The NPA is -- the PCR 54%. We don't need PCR of 54% for retail. We are 35%, 36%, 38% is okay. So on corporate we are sitting on a PCR of almost 58%. And to -- quarter after quarter, there will be further increase in provision coverage ratio. So ultimately, our PCR is more or less aligned to the LGD. So I don't have any concern whatsoever that the -- there will be any impact on the past credit cost on the future earnings.
Wonderful.
[indiscernible] NPA, you need to make a provision of only 15%, okay. So what are only consolidated, we see -- I think 54% would reflect the correct provisioning that you should have actually. And after the new slippages again, many got [tabulated later also]. So I think that's...
Yes. So in terms of the provision computation, we are sitting pretty.
Wonderful, sir. Sir, your opening remarks, you said that your corporate lending percentile is now 42, and you lend across large, mid, small, micro. How are you looking at the situation across sectors? Is there any improvement drastically? Marginally? Or some signs of recovery may not be across sectors, but in a few sectors. And where are the sectors -- I mean, a few sectors will need still hand holding or things like that?
Large corporate growth, at least for the State Bank, is mostly coming from the public sector undertakings and Maharatna [ Zen ] of the -- now second is, because of the upward movement in the commodity prices, the overall requirement for working capital has also gone up. And the SME, other banks and NBFCs have been doing better than the State Bank of India, but we are trying and we have done a lot of effort in last 2, 3 years to get back that growth in SME segment also. And many of these initiatives on the technological front which bank has taken or the public sector banks are undertaking, I think we should be able to get good growth in SME also. And retail continues to be a good story anyway. Housing loan, we are growing at 14%. We have a market share of 13%, 3% amongst scheduled commercial banks, and we have been able to maintain that. So the growth, if you ask me, on the large corporate is more government sector driven and not as much private sector driven, other than whatever are the normal increase in working capital requirement. But first time this year, we have seen that over YTD, growth became positive in August itself. Otherwise, up to February, it used to be negative, and only in March it used to turn positive. And that is where I think we will have some gains on the fundings [indiscernible].
Next.
Just a couple of questions. One, can we have a breakup of slippages across segments for the quarter?
Yes. Parveen?
Yes.
SME.
Yes, SME slippage is at 3,834; Agri is 2,700; retail, the disbursement segment, is ‚; and the rest is [at corporate].
And this quarter, if you look at Slide #27, the power sector has seen deterioration on the BB and below by about 10 percentage points. If you can just give some clarity on this. And also, what has been the progress on those Samadhan scheme? Because BFC in its call, the day before yesterday kind of highlighted, saying that "We are still seeing progress on many of these cases." Just wanted to check, are you on the same page? Or is there anything difference to add on this issue?
BFC and SBI are on the same page as far as the resolution of power sector are concerned. In every account, there are multiple lenders. And unless there's a 100% approval, you can't do anything. But 4, 5 -- [besides], I'm still very hopeful that we'll be able to do. In 1, we had only 3 financials so that we have grossed almost [SBI's being signed]]. These slippages, do you have any...
We are talking of...
Some slippage in power sector rating. So...
Power is -- yes, from 9%, the BB and below has gone to 19%.
Yes. Maybe 1 or 2 [accounts are ..]
ForEx accounts, these would be the ones which we have already transferred or they are under some resolution plan.
Yes.
There are no large -- the larger accounts, which were already rated as, say, investment grade and above. There has been no downgradation to our knowledge. But separately, we can...
But I will double-check that.
We'll give you the detail.
Sure. Sir, you didn't mention this. What is your exposure to IL&FS?
We have -- one is investments, 6%, which is above 90 crore. Then holdco level 250 crore. Rest is all -- around 3,800 crore to 4,000 crore on the various SPVs. And out of each one where there is just 2,700 crore, is it, SPV is their minority and the large public sector undertaking is the majority. So -- and all our [indiscernible] cash flows. IL&FS is honestly not as much of a problem for the State Bank of...
Sure. And one final question. What is your loan growth assumption for this year? Because you've given an estimate of your gross NPL numbers
What is my...
Loan.
You've given an estimate of...
Well, we have said 10% to 12%. We're still sticking to it.
There's no change to that?
There's no change to that.
And when you look at a cap raising exercise in this current financial year? Or do you think that you have enough capital for -- heading into FY '20 as well?
We have enough capital, but I have enabling resolution of 20,000 crore. And then I have 81 cushion of 8,000 crore. So whatever we do, it will be within, i.e., on the growth. But growth, yes, we are doing a decent growth. So if there is a good opportunity and the requirement to fund the growth, then we will look at the options. But otherwise, our capital adequacy is comfortable, and the internal accruals will start coming in from -- in a fairly big way from December onwards.
Hello. I would like to note in your outstanding book of SR and the provisions.
Outstanding?
Book of security receipts. And...
SR. SRs.
SRs.
Yes.
You got the number? SRs?
Currently, it's not in the [indiscernible] figures. [indiscernible].
It is not much. State Bank, every number is very big. 21 lakh crore our portfolio, 2 lakh 5,000 crore of NPA. So 10,000 crore SR for this statement looks very small.
Yes, but if you look at your provisions...
Please use mic between...
Yes. If you look at all your provisions in the annual report, they were around 167 crores. It was around 1.6% of the book. So what is your outlook on the same? And were there any additional provisions you will require to do? Or -- and State Bank's...
So if we have time, we will do as and when needed.
So As of now, the provisions are, as per the guidelines laid down, as per the [NAV] that we get and as we resolve these, there is even an option to [sell these in that]. As the resolutions happen, we will provide disclosure, right, maybe over the next few months of progress.
Next question. The first question.
The question is from...
Some questions are from the phone.
Okay.
Yes.
So just one.
So what is the outlook for credit cost in H2 FY '19? As I said, during the quarter, the credit cost is 1.99. And in the next 2 quarters also, the trend will be more or less identical. There will be an improvement of a few business point not because of anything else but because the portfolio size is growing. And the outlook for domestic and overseas NIM, currently it is 2.76 for domestic, which may also undergo a -- it will improve and should improve because our deposit costs are very much under control and the impact of whatever additional business we have booked. And there have recently been more consciousness about not giving too many concession on the [indiscernible]. So it should be around 2.85. Overseas is around 1.56 or...
1.4.
Dinesh?
1.56.
1.56.
The N-I-M.
N-I-M.
1.47.
1.47. So it should be around 1.5.
Next question.
Sir, I've got 2 questions. One is on the power disclosures that you have made on Slide 27. So as we see from the slide, you have roughly a little more than 27,000 crores in standard, not in the watch list but BB and below power reserves. How should we think of future slippages from this portion of your book, number one? Number two, if you have made any provisions on this other than the usual standard, let's say, provisions? Any provisions you might have taken? What is outstanding amount? And the other question is, what is the total number of NCLT cases outstanding with you? Is this including everything even without...
Oh, NCLT [indiscernible], can you give for us the NCLT data, and power I will address.
See, excluding the NCLT amount that has already been resolved to the SBI now, it's almost 400 cases which in NCLT. Around [indiscernible]. The total amount...
We cannot understand.
Yes.
Yes, on the call.
Can you hear me now? Yes
Yes.
Okay. So for our portfolio, 378 accounts are currently filed in NCLT. The total amount is roughly 1 lakh 10,000 crores. Out of these, almost 36,000 crores, roughly 80 accounts, have not yet been admitted. The rest are admitted. Around 54 accounts, a small amount but 54 accounts of roughly 10,000 crores, 50% is in OCA and NPA that is undergoing liquidation. This is excluding the accounts which have already been resolved under NCLT. What was the other question?
Yes, the -- power. NPL numbers are already there, 32,676 crore. Watch list number is also there, 10,000 crore. So what you are looking at, the overall position of 41,000 crore. I don't expect that there will be any slippage from watch list. And in the power on this 32,676 crore, we have already provided 41%. In my view, the gap is not more than 10%, which is about 3,200 crore to 3,500 crore to be on the safer side, which is very much manageable for us because all these provisions will be required over a period of time either on the aging or as and when the final resolution takes place. So we are very much in a position to take provisions on this. And the overall guidance of 2%, it will be covered in time.
Sir, my question was on the portion that is not in the watch list, which is the 1 lakh [indiscernible]...
They all are good accounts. There's nothing to worry about on that.
Yes. But within that, you have 19% that is rated BB and below. So I'm just questioning about that part. So that would come to a bit above 27,000 crores. And...
Well, just to add, the 1 which is -- we are not envisaging any change in the watch list. So if there was any account which has fallen under, it would have been -- it could have been in the watch list even if it was above BBB. Let's put it that -- we don't want to get into individual accounts, but there is 1 or 2 accounts which were -- which may have been rated higher but which has fallen below BBB in this quarter, which has led to this. But they would have been already in the watch list. As Chairman has clarified, this 9,000 crores or 10,000 crores of amount, which is in the watch list in the power sector, which are currently standard, we don't expect this number to change at all. And we are hopeful that this amount also will not fully slip. And that's the...
And just to answer your question, the requirement of additional provision on our power sector, which we have done a very careful analysis, and based on the price discoveries which have been in some of the cases where we set certain parameters, which was that the recovery should not be 3 crore per -- less than 3 crore per megawatt, the recovery for the lenders are outstanding; NPA should be 50%. So based on that, the additional provision required on power sector does not exceed 3,500 crore as of now. And I don't foresee a situation where this will be going up.
Next question.
Ashwani from Reliance Mutual Fund.
Yes.
I just wanted to know, are you seeing any intentions of the corporate, both large or mid-corporates, intention of increasing capacity anywhere, CapEx program?
So it's an ongoing process. It's an ongoing process, right. And as I said, that the major CapEx is coming from -- more from the public sector and the government spending. The private, we don't have, as of now, seen many major announcement other than some in the steel sector where Tata has made an announcement about [indiscernible] as well as this [indiscernible] which they acquire. For this sector, which can see capital investment is, of course, cement or steel. But otherwise, the oil sector, we have seen again, but that is more from the public sector undertakings. So that is the sector which is also attracting considerable investment, the oil and gas sector.
And sir, in the personal loans and the retail loans, which have been growing very well for the bank, you have internal customers and you have customers outside the bank. What is the method to really mitigate risk in this? Because basically, when the inflationary pressures go up in the economy, consumers also -- or retail loan takers also tend to get impacted. So is there any specific way you're looking at it?
Our lending is mostly to internal, where the salary account is there. And we have CSP or what we call Corporate Salary Packages, the number of account exceeds 1.3 crore. So that is the...
Sir, plus there are about 50 lakh pensioners. So we have pension costs also.
So a few lakh pensioners. So this is the universe towards which we look for growing our personal loans. They do get categorized as unsecured. But in fact, they are very much secured by -- we have at least cash flows there, regular cash flows in the segment. Outside this universe, we have not targeted in a big way.
And there must be a long way to go within your own customers, the number of customers which you have over a period of time?
Well, that is very much. And our preapproved personal loan, which we are now marketing through UNO. So already, we have done 500 crore worth of disbursements. So there are plans to grow the portfolio.
What is the potential of this 500 crores which you have done?
Parveen?
Potential of...
What is the potential of this preapproved loans which you have 500.
See, preapproved loans, see right now, what we are doing is we are using internal data, okay. So we have plans to use the external data also, the civil score that are available. So a lot of that external data is available. We only launched one of the products on the mobile. So there again, we are seeing good tractions. So we are scaling it up slowly. As the Chairman said, that the preapproved personal loan on the UNO that we offer, so 500 crore we have been able to do in 2 months. So that, in fact, I see the potential. And these are all small value loans, 60,000, 70,000 maximum. So, I mean, as we start using more data analytic capabilities, we can definitely scale it up much, much more.
Yes. Next, on this -- just now in giving the answer for some of my colleague's question, you said that the non-fund-based facility of the corporates and the SME has come down to 6%. Last quarter, it was 7.7%, isn't it?
No, that's not what I said. I said total NPAs, we have 2 lakh 5,000 crores. On that total corpus of NPAs, the non-fund-based outstanding is less than 13,000 crores, 1 3, for all our NPAs. I didn't talk about the SME per se.
Yes. Yes, so what is that now? Instead of -- in place of 7.7% last quarter?
13,000 crore -- SME, I don't have the number.
Okay.
This is a number which are -- because last quarter, I remember there were some concerns about how much is your non-fund-based for NPA accounts. So that's why it is...
Yes, I indeed...
Yes.
I think...
So it's less than 13,000 crores for all NPAs, whether it is SME or corporate.
Okay.
But the -- how then -- 2 lakh...
Yes.
So that makes it 6%.
So that's why I said 6%.
Yes.
When did the results [indiscernible] been [indiscernible]?
Yes [indiscernible]. I trust all the questions have been addressed. If you have no more questions, let me end the earning with thanking the Chairman, the top management team, the analysts, ladies and gentlemen. We hope all your queries have been addressed satisfactorily. To round out this evening, we request you to join us for the high tea, which is arranged just outside the hall. Wish you all a very happy and safe Diwali.
Thank you all, and a very happy and prosperous [indiscernible].