Rossari Biotech Ltd
NSE:ROSSARI
| US |
|
Fubotv Inc
NYSE:FUBO
|
Media
|
| US |
|
Bank of America Corp
NYSE:BAC
|
Banking
|
| US |
|
Palantir Technologies Inc
NYSE:PLTR
|
Technology
|
| US |
C
|
C3.ai Inc
NYSE:AI
|
Technology
|
| US |
|
Uber Technologies Inc
NYSE:UBER
|
Road & Rail
|
| CN |
|
NIO Inc
NYSE:NIO
|
Automobiles
|
| US |
|
Fluor Corp
NYSE:FLR
|
Construction
|
| US |
|
Jacobs Engineering Group Inc
NYSE:J
|
Professional Services
|
| US |
|
TopBuild Corp
NYSE:BLD
|
Consumer products
|
| US |
|
Abbott Laboratories
NYSE:ABT
|
Health Care
|
| US |
|
Chevron Corp
NYSE:CVX
|
Energy
|
| US |
|
Occidental Petroleum Corp
NYSE:OXY
|
Energy
|
| US |
|
Matrix Service Co
NASDAQ:MTRX
|
Construction
|
| US |
|
Automatic Data Processing Inc
NASDAQ:ADP
|
Technology
|
| US |
|
Qualcomm Inc
NASDAQ:QCOM
|
Semiconductors
|
| US |
|
Ambarella Inc
NASDAQ:AMBA
|
Semiconductors
|
If you don’t study any companies, you have the same success buying stocks as you do in a poker game if you bet without looking at your cards.
Utilize notes to systematically review your investment decisions. By reflecting on past outcomes, you can discern effective strategies and identify those that underperformed. This continuous feedback loop enables you to adapt and refine your approach, optimizing for future success.
Each note serves as a learning point, offering insights into your decision-making processes. Over time, you'll accumulate a personalized database of knowledge, enhancing your ability to make informed decisions quickly and effectively.
With a comprehensive record of your investment history at your fingertips, you can compare current opportunities against past experiences. This not only bolsters your confidence but also ensures that each decision is grounded in a well-documented rationale.
Do you really want to delete this note?
This action cannot be undone.
| 52 Week Range |
670.65
942.4
|
| Price Target |
|
We'll email you a reminder when the closing price reaches INR.
Choose the stock you wish to monitor with a price alert.
|
|
Fubotv Inc
NYSE:FUBO
|
US |
|
|
Bank of America Corp
NYSE:BAC
|
US |
|
|
Palantir Technologies Inc
NYSE:PLTR
|
US |
|
C
|
C3.ai Inc
NYSE:AI
|
US |
|
|
Uber Technologies Inc
NYSE:UBER
|
US |
|
|
NIO Inc
NYSE:NIO
|
CN |
|
|
Fluor Corp
NYSE:FLR
|
US |
|
|
Jacobs Engineering Group Inc
NYSE:J
|
US |
|
|
TopBuild Corp
NYSE:BLD
|
US |
|
|
Abbott Laboratories
NYSE:ABT
|
US |
|
|
Chevron Corp
NYSE:CVX
|
US |
|
|
Occidental Petroleum Corp
NYSE:OXY
|
US |
|
|
Matrix Service Co
NASDAQ:MTRX
|
US |
|
|
Automatic Data Processing Inc
NASDAQ:ADP
|
US |
|
|
Qualcomm Inc
NASDAQ:QCOM
|
US |
|
|
Ambarella Inc
NASDAQ:AMBA
|
US |
This alert will be permanently deleted.
Rossari Biotech Ltd
You don't have any saved screeners yet
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Rossari Biotech Limited's Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anoop Poojari from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Poojari.
Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us on Rossari Biotech's Q4 and FY '24 Earnings Conference Call.
We have with us Mr. Edward Menezes, Promoter and Executive Chairman; Mr. Sunil Chari, Promoter and Managing Director; and Mr. Ketan Sablok, Group Chief Financial Officer of the company.
We will begin the call with opening remarks from the management, following which we'll have the forum open for a question-and-answer session.
Before we start, I would like to point out that some statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature, and a disclaimer to this effect has been included in the earnings presentation shared with you all here. I would now like to invite Mr. Edward Menezes to make his opening remarks.
Thank you, Anoop. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us on our earnings conference call. It's a pleasure to have you with us as we discuss our operational and financial performance.
We are pleased to report another strong quarter for the company, driven by healthy year-on-year growth in both revenues and profits. This performance was largely driven by the expansion of our HPPC business. While challenges in our TSC and AHN divisions persisted due to external industry headwinds, we remain optimistic about the recovery of these segments in the upcoming fiscal.
As a company, we have always believed in the power of innovation and accordingly, our focus on R&D has been a cornerstone of our success. This has enabled us to create unique solutions that meet the evolving demands of our customers. Our R&D efforts are built on a deep understanding of market trends, understanding customer requirements and references and then delivering quick sustainable solutions.
A key aspect of our strategy here is our commitment to Green Chemistry, which has been part of our DNA since our inception. This drives us to develop environmentally friendly products that deliver value to our customers and contribute to a sustainable future. Our ongoing growth strategy centers on expanding all our businesses divisions. Over time, we have developed new verticals with our core chemistries establishing a strong foundation for future expansion. We believe we are now well positioned to scale up these endeavors. We are particularly focused on specialty surfactants, phenoxy series, institutional cleaning and performance chemicals.
Our recent expansion plan at Dahej along with increased its ethoxylation capacity, will allow us to meet growing demand in these key segments. Overall, we are confident that our robust balance sheet backed by prudent financial management will support our long-term growth strategy.
With this, I would like to conclude my address, and I now hand over to Mr. Chari for his comments.
Thank you, Mr. Edward, and a warm Namaste to everyone. It's a privilege to speak with you today and share our progress in FY '24.
While it has been a challenging period for the industry, Rossari has performed quite well, delivering healthy results throughout the year. We are particularly pleased with the exceptional performance of our HPPC segment. During this year, we expanded our customer base for key HPPC products, leading to a robust 18% growth in this division. Additionally, we have achieved significant success in exports which have grown faster than domestic markets during the year. This resulted in the growth of our approach of targeting new customers in both new and existing geographies.
A highlight in our international vertical was the expansion of our presence in Bangladesh, by establishing a strong local business development team. By extending our presence in such high-growth markets, we'll be able to tap into new customers and establish stronger relationships in the region. Our Institutional Cleaning segment has achieved exceptional results during the year, serving major sectors such as airports, railways, hotels and healthcare that rely on specialized cleaning solutions. Our initial success in this segment can be attributed to a deep understanding of cleaning chemistry, which has enabled us to develop tailored products and solutions.
Additionally, we produce -- provide comprehensive support to our customers, ensuring that all their cleaning requirements are met through us. Looking back on our journey since our IPO, we take pride in our growth from a INR 700 crores top line to our expected milestone of around INR 2,000 crores top line in FY '25. A remarkable growth in addition to the successful acquisition of high-quality acquisitions reflect our firm commitment to excellence, innovation and customer satisfaction.
Our commitment to maintaining a strong balance sheet and our disciplined approach to financial management has also been instrumental in our success. These principles will continue to guide us as we expand our operations and explore new opportunities.
We thank you for your continued support, and I would now request Ketan Ji to share his perspective.
Thank you, Chari sir, and good evening to everyone. Let me provide you with a brief overview of the financial performance for the quarter and for the full year ended March 31, 2024.
We are pleased to report a healthy growth in our operations with revenues improving by 16.3% Y-o-Y to reach INR 472.7 crores in Q4 FY '24. The strong performance of our core HPPC division played a key role in driving this growth, registering almost 18% Y-o-Y increase. While our Textile division witnessed a slowdown this quarter, primarily due to subdued demand in the textile industry and the softening of prices, volumes have remained steady throughout the year.
The AHN performance was lower due to external industry headwinds. We anticipate a rebound in demand both domestically and in export markets in the near future, which should lead to a positive turnaround for both these verticals. In terms of revenue contribution for the quarter, HPPC led with 73%, followed by Textile Specialties 20% and Animal Health with 7%. Consolidated EBITDA remained -- sorry, consolidated EBITDA amounted to INR 63.6 crores compared to INR 54.6 crores in Q4 FY '23, marking an increase of 16.5% Y-o-Y and remaining consistent quarter-on-quarter.
Meanwhile, the PAT stood at INR 34.1 crores, up from INR 28.9 crores in Q4 FY '23, reflecting a growth of 17.8% Y-o-Y and a steady Q-on-Q number.
For the full fiscal year FY '24, our consolidated total revenues from operations reached INR 1,830.6 crores, reflecting a 10.5% Y-o-Y increase. HPPC revenue amounted to INR 1,369 crores, contributing 75% of the total revenue followed by Textile Specialty business, INR 354 crores, contributing 19%, and AHN at INR 108 crores, contributing 6%. EBITDA for the year stood at INR 249.8 crores compared to INR 223 crores in FY '23, marking the highest annual EBITDA with EBITDA margins of 13.6%. PAT for the year amounted to INR 130.7 crores compared to INR 107.3 crores in FY '23, achieving the highest annual PAT.
On the gross margin front, we are about 2% lower in Q4. While on the full year basis, we are steady at 29%. Some moderation on the selling prices during the quarter impacted this fall in the gross margins. Also in the last quarter as well as in the last year similar quarter, we had some high-margin tender business, which we are missing in the current quarter Q4. Gross margin improvement remains our key goal. And strategically, we are aligned to keep improving our gross margins going forward.
On the working capital front, we are a little stretched on the outstanding days. Our inventories and receivables have increased during the year. On the inventory front, we had planned increase of inventories during March '24 in view of the upcoming agro season, where we had suffered last year due to lack of availability of materials. Also during April, one of our key suppliers was going into a planned shutdown. Hence, we had to build up stocks at our end.
On receivables, we have a stretch on the agro side as some of our government tender businesses where the cycle periods are long, have impacted the increase in the receivable days. We are taking steps to streamline our working capital across businesses, and we will continue to monitor this.
Looking ahead, our expansion projects at Dahej are progressing as planned and are expected to be completed during FY '25. These expansions will enable us to meet growing demand in key sectors and further strengthen our position in the market. We remain excited about our opportunities in our business verticals and believe that our robust R&D framework, strong financial base and diverse product portfolio will continue to drive our success going forward.
On this note, I would conclude my opening remarks and request the moderator to open the forum for any questions that the participants may have. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Aditya Chheda from InCred Asset Management.
First question is on the gross margin. In your view, what would be the key figures for implementing gross margins going forward?
So as I said in my opening remarks, there was a little change in the product mix during the quarter, which impacted the gross margin. Also, there was some moderation on the selling prices, which has also impacted the gross margins. Our strategy on this front is to keep improving on the R&D side, lowering the costs while keeping the selling prices intact and if -- or increase, depending on what the raw material prices behave. But given that now some of the raw material prices are looking to be a little steady, I think going forward, we should see some improvement coming on the gross margin.
Right. My next question is on the revenue run rate. We have some of the capacity coming up in phases. Are you expecting the revenue run rate to bump up in the second half? Or if you want to sort of quantify how are you thinking about top line growth for FY '25? And what -- which are the quarters where you will start seeing that uptick in the revenue run rate, which we are currently at INR 474 crores on consol?
So the CapExes will come onstream in a phased manner. So probably some of the CapExes will come towards the end of quarter 2 and -- or beginning of quarter 3. So we should see some increase in the revenues. Currently the way the projects are progressing, I would say, by quarter 4, we should see some revenue bump up and the major bump up coming into the next year FY '26.
Right. Last question from my end. Would you want to give any guidance on the revenue front for FY'25?
No, it would be a little difficult now at this stage, given the -- what's happening globally, but I think we would -- we've talked about this earlier also and where we said that we would be working towards mid low double-digit kind of growth. That's what we are seeing now, and that's what we've delivered this year. So currently, we would not hazard a guess, but we should be able to do what we've done this year, at least as of now, maybe a couple of quarters down the line, we would be in a better position to tell you where the business is going to grow.
Next question is from the line of Bhargav from Ambit Asset Management.
Sir, you mentioned in your opening remarks that there was volume growth in the textile business. If you can quantify what has been the volume growth in FY '24?
So the textile business has registered about 5% kind of volume growth on an annualized basis. On this quarter, the growth in volumes has been about 10% quarter-on-quarter.
Okay. And what is the plan ahead given that you are now investing in Bangladesh as well to grow your textile business?
Yes. So we've set up a new office, et cetera, in this -- in the last year in Bangladesh, and we've set up the entire sales network, dealers, et cetera. We should start seeing some traction in the textile business, probably in another couple of months. So probably Q2 onwards, we will see some good ramp-up in the Bangladesh business coming through.
Okay. In terms of your Institutional Cleaning business, is it possible to basically elaborate what's the plan for the next 2 to 3 years?
Institutional Cleaning business, I think we are quite bullish about that the business, which is currently on a growth phase. We've almost doubled the turnover in the institutional business in this year and in FY '24. Our target is to double this in FY '25. This business is slightly cash-consuming business in terms of cost as well as in terms of the working capital. But till it reaches a certain size and capacity, it will be a slight push on our working capital position, but that's something we are willingly doing it, because we are quite bullish that the business once it reaches a certain volume of INR 800 crores plus, that's when the actual returns we'll be able to see.
And yes, so that's the plan. I think we should -- we are aiming to double it again this year. Next year also, we are quite bullish. We've set up a large team now in the business of institutional chemicals. We brought in a new head. The entire org structure has been done. So over the next 2 to 5 years, I think we are very, very confident of this business reaching much larger milestones.
For FY '24, what is the revenue and maybe loss in this business?
FY '24, the revenues have been about INR 159 crores. And if it's -- currently is giving about 4% kind of an EBITDA.
Okay. Okay. And the working capital cycle would be how much in terms of number of days for this business?
So working capital is a little stretched in this business. It seems to be upwards of about 85, 90 days.
Next question is from the line of Sanjesh Jain from ICICI Securities.
I got a few of them. First, starting with the gross profit margin. The fall in raw material prices, I thought percentage margins should look better because mathematically, our gross profit per Kg remains flattish, which makes margin look better. In a stand-alone business, the margin has actually fallen by 300, 400 basis points. And on a consol basis, it is down by 200 basis points. I know you mentioned that there's a change in the product mix, but I thought institutional, which has the highest gross profit margin business within our portfolio today, the revenues have doubled, which should have further aided the margin.
So which are the other product lines where you think the margins were higher and those have not been accounted in Q4 or the sales are lower in Q4?
So Sanjesh, as I said in the last quarter, we had a higher revenue coming from our tender business, the government tender business, where we supply cleaning chemicals to schools and institutions. So this is a very high-margin business for us. This comes in certain quarters. This business was there in Q3. So Q4, this business was nil. So that has impacted significantly to the gross margin.
Okay. That's again a part of institutional only?
Yes. But it's done through Rossari. It's not done through BIPL.
That should be done through Rossari. That means the margin..
It's done through Rossari. That was I am saying. So that was there in...
But the [ 400 ] looks excessive, right? For one part of business, where...
So almost INR 25 crores business for us in the last quarter. So almost the entire year's supply has happened in Q3. That has impacted. And of course, as I said, some selling prices there was a moderation. We have not passed on some of the price increases which were there. That has also impacted. It's going to take some time for us to push these prices into the market.
Ketan, can you just help us understand how is the competitive intensity in the industry? Because we have seen our margin getting compressed when the raw material prices go up, our margins getting compressed when the raw material prices are falling. Either way our margins look like the volatile or vulnerable for the volatility in the raw material prices. How should we see the competitive intensity of the business model, which we can make more robust to keep the margins more stable?
So if you see, Sanjesh, we have generally been in the last couple of years, we've been able to maintain our margins, the gross margin, if I say, at about 30% plus minus. They keep changing quarter-to-quarter, again, depending on which vertical does well, which vertical does not do well. So for me, currently, the way the business is structured and the way the market is behaving, I think we should look at an annualized number of closer to 30% gross margin. That's what I can say as of now.
Ketan bhai actually, the margins at the time of IPO were like 37%, 38%. And the moderation, what we thought was largely because of the raw material pressure. But when raw material have normalized, our margins are still not normalized. So is it fair to assume that this is a new normal and the 38% what we did at the time of IPO were at least in the foreseeable future, it doesn't appear that we will again fly into that kind of a margin profile?
Yes, I think because at the time of IPO and the current scenario, the entire product basket of the company has changed significantly. So we didn't have Tristar at that time. We didn't have Unitop at that time. And then we -- we have also gone into some other verticals like paints, paper, and oil and gas, so there -- and at that time, we had a big account, which you know where the margins were significantly higher, which we don't have anymore. So the impact of all of this, as you rightly suggested, currently, the way we look at it is this business is going to be around the 30% kind of margin.
Fair enough. That's very clear. Ketan bhai, just second on the growth side. Now HPPC growing at 30% looks phenomenally healthy. Can you help us understand how we plan to sustain this growth for next 2, 3 years? Or how should we think about this portfolio growing at, say, 20%, 30% even for next 2 to 3 years?
So some of the key subsegments in HPPC, I think will keep pushing the growth. Here would be 1 new CapEx, which is coming in. So that -- and the CapEx largely the bigger one is coming up in Unitop. So that's going to help us keep up this growth momentum in HPPC. Secondly, so that has a portion of business, which is into the surfactants and ethoxylates and it's also there is a product which is going to go to the oil and gas industry.
So both these will help us maintain this growth in HPPC. Secondly, the business of Institutional Chemicals, which I talked about, that also we expect that at least for the next foreseeable 2 years should see a significant growth given the current base is small. We've almost doubled it this year, as we have shown in our presentation. We expect to be at least closer to doubling this year also. So these -- couple of these factors will help us keep this momentum of growth in HPPC.
So that's fair to say that within HPPC, the contribution of agrochemical, oil and gas is going to go up materially with ethoxylation capacity coming in, right?
No, no, not necessary because if you see in the last year, specifically FY '24, where the agro season was not great and the agro -- overall agro was not quite great. We actually pushed our capacity in non-agro side. And it's the non-agro business of Unitop that has helped us sustain even though the agro has not grown. While volumes, we've been able to maintain in agro, but the real growth has come from the non-agro business in FY '24.
So roughly, if I could tell you, in FY '23, the mix was about 65% agro and 35% non-agro. This mix now is roughly about 50%, 50%.
So change materially. In non-agro, what is growing within the Unitop?
Sanjeshji, namaste. This is Sunil Chari here. The -- so Home, Personal and Performance Chemicals, home personal care is doing extremely well. In HPPC, the Tristar business has done very well in the last year. The Unitop business also has done very, very well. So the non-agro part of the business has done quite well, and this is where looking at...
What is non-agro? When you say non-agro, what does it mean?
Non-agro is Home Care, Personal Care and then paints and coatings, these are 3 areas which are major contributors to non-agro.
Okay. Okay. Home Care, Personal Care and Paints, these are 3 growing faster for us.
Yes, Sanjeshji.
So have you done any tie-up with the new paint company, which is now planning to become very big? Do we have any relationship there? Can that be any trigger or are we looking at that being a new opportunity for us?
So we are in talks with all these new paint companies, which are coming up and also with the existing paint companies. And we are hopeful of business in these companies.
Got it. Got it. One last question on the working capital side. What should be the new normal? Because this company used to have a working capital of less than 50 days. This year, we are closing with 97 days of working capital, which is almost doubling of the working capital for us. Ketan bhai, what should be the steady state working capital with one we should understand because tender business is always going to be a lumpy business? So how should we factor the working capital days?
So Sanjesh, if you see now with Unitop, et cetera, coming in, the -- and the stretch that we are seeing in the agro business, the receivable cycle, which is -- if you see our stand-alone, we are still at about 67 to 70. So we hover around 65, 70 days in the stand-alone. It is consolidated where the numbers have gone up significantly. So one of the main issues is in the agro business, where the payment cycle is, as it is got stretched, but given the current situation, that stretch has gone a little longer. So that is impacting this.
Secondly, as are -- as I said, as our Institutional Chemicals business keeps growing, there are cycles in that business also where the working capital days are slightly stretched compared to what we generally have in the stand-alone. So that too is at about 85, 90 days. Secondly, in March, as I said, there were certain actions we took on the inventory side where if you see the inventory levels have significantly gone up almost to INR 90 crores plus.
So that has also impacted. So a fair assumption on year-end, I think we will be following these kind of cycles. We should be at about 90 days kind of number.
90 days should be where we should now stabilize.
Yes.
Sanjesh Ji to add to what Ketan Ji said, Rossari stand-alone, we are particularly at par for last year to 67 days and 69 days. And just 2 days also, I think it was little because [indiscernible] a little higher than last quarter.
It used to be 45 days when we were at the IPO?
But now this is the new normal because our customer mix, our product mix has changed substantially as we have informed this.
So now stand-alone 65 and consol 90 is what...
Stand-alone 70.
Okay, 70. So that should be a new normal, right? So that -- from here onwards, there won't be a significant, because this year, there is lower cash conversion because of the working capital.
Yes.
Next year onwards, that should not be any more of the case, correct?
No. We -- our endeavor Sanjesh internally is to bring it down to below 85 days on a realistic -- giving you a realistic number. But currently, given the situation, I think we have to first bring it down to 90 days from where we are. So it will be prudent now to take a 90-day kind of the cycle.
Got it. Got it. One last, sorry, I'm stretching a bit but 1 last question from my side. We anticipated to double the AHN revenue this year. I don't think that's been possible. Any particular reason what we saw the opportunity at the start of the year and what transpired across the year? And finally, we ended up with not much different than what we were last year.
Last year, we were not prepared for the agro season. And then as well, we had ethylene oxide shortage. This year, I think close to INR 20 crores of stock is for agro, which we have kept now.
No, I'm talking in AHN?
[Foreign Language].
[Foreign Language] you expect the AHN revenue to double.
Yes.
Okay. I don't think we were able to do that. What changed over the year for us being not able to do that? Because I think you were very confident of doing that.
The last few quarters in Animals and Nutrition industry, especially the integrated and the feed mills have gone through a lot of pain. They have had a lot of pressure on their margins. And our outstandings were going up. And then prudently, we decided that [Foreign Language], we are not going to give accelerate credit in the market for Animals and Nutrition.
Okay. You are telling the industry itself struggled and we were more careful not to increase the exposure in the industry.
Yes.
Yes. Yes, that's what it was Sanjesh. But if you see in the last 2 quarters, we've slightly better on the AHN front. And we are also now putting up a small CapEx in agents premix which will help us.
We are putting up a premix plant and we are putting up a granulation facility. These 2 equipment will, I mean, increase our production capacity as well as the quality of our product. So we currently on, I mean, stand-alone mixers, but this will be a completely automated mixing technology from a multinational company. So this investment, we see that this year, we should bounce back. Although this machinery takes anywhere between 4 and 6 months for delivery and commissioning. So we are very hopeful that these 2 equipment in place, we will do better there. And as well as [indiscernible] so this year [indiscernible] should go up.
Next question is from the line of Rohit Nagraj from Centrum Broking.
First question is we have recently commercialized some oilfield chemicals. So if you can just give us broader understanding of where these are used, which geographies, whether it's a tender business or it's a normal business? And how are we going to tap this particular opportunity in terms of opportunity size and maybe a growth plan for a 3- to 5-year perspective?
Yes. So the oilfield chemicals, we are targeting both India market and also especially the Gulf market. There is also some market in Africa and Malaysia, which we are trying to target. Oil and gas has a long decision for approval from the big companies. So we -- this year, we're mostly going to seeding. The chemistries where we are focusing is mostly the demulsifiers, the Pour Point Depressant, the biocides, the deformers, these are chemistries where we have some small sales from Unitop.
So would -- this year would be more approval and seeding stage. And hopefully, in the years to come, we should get good business from these chemistries and these focus areas. Obviously, Saudi, UAE, Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, Nigeria and India and also Russia, these would be focusing areas for us.
Sure. That's helpful. The second question is in terms of our overseas market. So how are we tapping the exports market? You talked about textile chemicals in terms of our Bangladesh initiative. Apart from that, Unitop has been pretty concentrated on the LatAm market. Tristar has been on North American market. So where are we in terms of cross-selling opportunities and dealer distribution network? And how are we expecting the exports to grow in FY '25, '26? What could be the proportion that we are looking at maybe over a 3-, 5-year period of time?
Yes. So Rohitji, the focus would be the Americas, which include Latin and South and North America. This is 1 of our focus areas for growth. The second area, of course, would be Asia. And Asia will include the MENA region, which we consider still in Asia and also the Far East region, which is there. And the third geography, which we will look in exports remains the European geography. So Latin America is part of the Americas, which you already done. The Home Personal Care segment, the agro segment would be this year, the focus areas mostly. The -- if you see in the last financial year, Rossari, Unitop and Tristar, we were practically together with the 3 companies, we are at 0 debt level, net zero investments and the bank borrowings of these 3 companies were matching. So there was practically no debt in these 3 companies. And Tristar and Unitop both have achieved 100% capacities. So this has mostly come from also the export market, but also seeding into the local market where we are cross-selling into our existing customers with new chemistries.
In terms of specific products, phenoxyethanol would be something which could grow. But also we see a lot of alcoholic oxylates and other kind of ethoxylates going to not only Home Personal Care but also food processing. And then we are starting to build our capabilities for the pharma surfactants, which again will come in the HPPC segment in the Performance Chemicals.
Right. Got it. Just 1 last, if I can squeeze in. From the agrochemical exposure, it's 50% only in Unitop and there is no other exposure that we currently have, right?
No, no, it's all Unitop.
Right. And how has been the performance in the recent quarter? And given that this is the primary season from agrochemical perspective, what is you're expecting that whether we will be able to maintain the volumes during this year as well? Or there could be some setback?
I didn't get your question clearly, Rohit. Can you just repeat, please?
Yes. So given that last year, we were able to maintain the volumes on the agrochemical. Obviously, there was some impact probably because of the pricing. How do we are seeing in current environment where last year, the inventories were higher generally across the board. So from our FY '25 perspective, whether we have a visibility that agrochem part, the volumes will be maintained or there could be a smaller setback?
No, the kind of order book that we are seeing now, I think we should be able to maintain our volumes in FY '25. We have at least now a good bit of inquiry coming in from our customers. So we don't expect the volumes to drop significantly. We would be happy if we can maintain the volume levels that we've achieved in FY '24. We should be around that number itself.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Mihir Damania from Ambit Asset Management.
I just had 1 question. What was the volume growth for the full year for the company? And do we have sufficient capacities to increase the volumes for FY '25 in a similar range what we did this year?
We generally don't give a volume growth number. But given that the current pressure on the prices and some of the selling prices, I think its often most of this growth which you are seeing that has come has majorly come out of volume itself. And on your question on the availability of capacities, I think on the stand-alone front, we have enough headroom to fill up volumes. The ethoxylation capacity that Tristar and Unitop are fully utilized. So that's where we are adding capacities. We should have some capacities on stream as I said, by end of H1.
Next question is from the line of Rohan Gupta from Nuvama Institutional Equities.
Just wanted to understand that you mentioned that definitely last year, agri has been up, however, the growth was driven by HPPC and other Personal Care category. How do you see that over the next 1 year to 2 years? Where the focus on HPPC has been there and it will be remain the growth driver or the industry revival in the agri business will drive the agri part of the portfolio of the company more?
For us, Home Personal Care and Performance Chemicals would be the growth driver definitely in the next few years. Agro, we see still -- if you're able to maintain the volumes over last year, like last year, we will be happy. There is no El Nino effect and the monsoon is expected to be normal. We see a normal agro season like last year. But the focus would be on all the ethoxylates business basically and the phenoxy ethanol business.
Sir, if you could just share some CapEx number that over the next 1 year to 2 years, how much money you plan to invest and a broader outlook at how much of that will go in agro and how much of that in non-agro?
We've learned just in Q2, we had planned for some CapEx. It was about INR 128-odd crores for the ethoxylation capacity expansion and for a new molecule for the oil and gas business. So part of that INR 128 crores is for the oil and gas molecule. So that's the non-agro part. And within the ethoxylation, the capacity will be a mix. The utilization will be a mix of both agro and non-agro depending on how the market moves.
So if the agro season in the next couple of years, the agro doesn't really grow, then we have enough headroom to keep growing our non-agro. Ethoxylates are actually fungible depending on what -- how the markets are agro as well as non-agro.
Apart from that, this CapEx, you have any further plan on the CapEx side part? I think that this is going to commission in FY '25 itself, right?
Yes. So by end of FY '25, this CapEx will be done, then probably we'll see how the markets are looking and post that, we'll probably think of the next round of investments. But currently, the major investments are the ones which we've announced.
Sir, just last question from my side. Sir, in last 2 years of the -- 2 to 3 years of the company, we have seen a couple of acquisitions done by the company probably. At that time, I think the industry dynamics were quite rosy. I mean, in terms of the valuations also probably that the market dynamic was quite favorable for the company in terms of the valuation, which we have paid high multiple. Do you think that in the current scenario, the things have changed and even the acquisitions which we had done are, I mean, not contributing to the profitability the way you would have expected? And how much time do you think that they may take to drive the profitability at the level which we have expected earlier?
No. I think on the contrary all the acquisitions that we've done has fared much better than what we had planned. So whatever financial we had prepared at the time of acquisition, I think both these have really done much better than that. Today, if you see in the last 3 years, Unitop had a growth of almost CAGR 20%. Tristar has had a growth of 24% CAGR. So I think we are very happy with the way both these acquisitions have performed. And they are going to pay back much earlier than what we had internally targeted.
Next question is from the line of Ankur Periwal from Axis Capital.
My apologies, I joined the call a bit late. So if there is any repetition, my apologies there. First question on the overall growth outlook. Now if I look at on a consolidated basis, we have grown at a high -- sorry, low double-digit numbers over the last 2 years. Obviously, there was a realization-led issue here as well. So a large part of this growth was volume led. But how are your thoughts in terms of the revenue ramp-up here over the next 2 to 3 years?
Ankurji, this is Sunil Chari here. We -- because of the uncertain volatile market conditions across the globe, we are not sure and do not want to hazard any guess for the next 2 quarters. So we would wait and see and then guide you.
Sorry. My question was not on 2 quarters, but more from the next 2 to 3 years.
Yes, yes. So we are expanding, we are investing money into growing the ethoxylates business, the phenoxy ethanol business, the NMMO business and also the polymers business. So definitely, we are bullish on our future. But these first 2 quarters will determine our outlook for the current financial year.
Just to add to that, Ankur, the capacity that we are putting in, probably come towards the end of this calendar year. So we would have about 3 to 4 months of revenues coming in this year and probably a larger piece of the revenues coming in FY '26. So currently, as Chari sir said, let us wait and watch how these 2 quarters go. These are key quarters for us for our agro business, while we are seeing the demand being quite stable. But on full annualized basis, we would probably be able to give a better idea of how this year is going to pan out. But currently, the way we look FY '25, we should be a little similar or slightly higher than what we've done in the last year.
But in FY '26, I think the ramp-up capacities coming in, we should see mid to a slightly higher growth in '26 and onwards.
Sure. You did mention in your earlier comments that on the stand-alone side, we have ample capacity to scale up. How about the capacity at Tristar or Unitop? Will we be leading -- will we have to spend more there to enhance capacity or they are optimally utilized now?
So currently, on the ethoxylation side, we are optimally utilized. That's why we are adding these capacities on the ethoxylation front. So our CapEx, which is ongoing is going to add these capacities. And apart from the ethoxylation, we are also doing another product for the oil and gas business. So these are the 2 main expenses that are happening.
Sure. Secondly, on the margin front. Now if I dissect our consol performance between stand-alone and subsidiary, there is an improvement in subsidiary and to an extent, deterioration in the gross margin or even EBITDA margin on the stand-alone side. Is large part of this pain largely over? Or the FY '24 numbers on an average is the new base and one should look at these numbers? May not be the 14%, 15% EBITDA margin that you were doing earlier?
So currently, Ankur, I have spoken about this earlier also. We would -- the current base what we are seeing for this -- for the FY '24, at least for the next year, we should take those numbers itself and go ahead.
Okay. But incrementally, let's say, '26 and beyond, you will expect things to improve? Or it should be gradual, not going back to the older run rates?
In terms of the gross margin?
Gross or EBITDA margin either way.
Yes, yes. It's going to be a gradual uptick. But on an annualized basis, I say if you see currently, we are seeing the way the business and the outlook that we are getting from the market and from the business side, this 13.5% to 14% EBITDA margin is what I can tell you is something we are looking at, at least currently sitting today.
Sure. And lastly, on the balance sheet, working capital. If I look at over the last 3 years, there is a decline in overall the core working capital, largely because of the payable days being lower. So probably we are doing more spot purchases now versus the credit that we were enjoying earlier. FY '24, specifically inventory and receivables are also slightly higher. So how do you look at this number on a steady take basis going ahead?
Yes. So if you see the way our business has grown in the last 2, 3 years, it's major growth coming in our subsidiaries, Unitop, Tristar almost close to doubling from what we have -- when we had purchased. So as far as the working capital position, because there if you see the major raw materials that we are purchasing is all on advanced terms. While if you see supplies to agro and also in the non-agro, especially in agro are hugely stretched, especially given the current scenario.
So that's what is impacting the working capital cycle in the overall consolidated balance sheet. As I said, our endeavor is to start streamlining this number. We are working towards that. In March of '24, it was a management call to build up some stocks seeing the agro season coming in. We had lost out on a lot of agro orders last year because of nonavailability of material. Also the supplier has planned to get into annual shutdown during the month of April. Hence, we had willingly stocked up raw materials and also produced a lot of semifinished goods and kept. So that's why you'll see the inventories have also gone up significantly in end of March. That's what has impacted the overall working capital.
We have our next follow-up question from the line of Rohit Nagraj from Centrum Broking.
So just 1 clarification. We have seen that there has been some issue in terms of ethylene oxide availability. So your comments on the same? And the second thing, in terms of the newer capacity, how are we placed in terms of the supplies of ethylene oxide?
For April and May, Reliance has given us forecast that they will be giving us about 60% of what we normally buy. So April, May, we should have -- of course, our capacity will be unutilized to that extent. And we are expecting to add some product on propylene oxide to tide over the ethylene oxide shortage. We are also trying to make some raw materials which we're buying from outside in-house to fill up the capacity, which is vacant. In April and May, luckily, we have built up some stocks in March for agro.
And I think our sales should be in line and stable, should not be affected much. That is what is our outlook Rohit Ji on ethylene oxide.
Yes. And for the new capacity, I mean, are we comfortable that for the expanded capacity, we'll be able to get additional...
We have been assured by Reliance that for our expanded capacity, they are going in for an expansion also for ethylene oxide. So we should have adequate availability of ethylene oxide for our expansion once it comes online in the last quarter of this financial year.
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.
Yes. Thank you, everyone. I hope we have been able to answer all your questions satisfactorily. Should you need any further clarifications or would like to know more about the company, please free to contact our team or CDR India. Thank you once again for taking the time to join us on this call. Have a good day.
Thank you. On behalf of Rossari Biotech Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.