Rossari Biotech Ltd

NSE:ROSSARI

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q4

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Rossari Biotech Limited Earnings Conference Calls. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Aesha Shah from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you.

[Aesha Shah]

Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us on Rossari Biotech Limited's Q4 and FY '23 earnings conference call. We have with us with us, Mr. Edward Menezes, Promoter and Executive Chairman; Mr. Sunil Chari, Promoter and Managing Director; Mr. Ketan Sablok, Group Chief Financial Officer; and Ms. Manasi Nisal, Chief Financial Officer.We will begin the call with the opening remarks from the management, following which we will have the forum open for question-and-answer session. Before we start, I would like to point out that some statement made in today's call may be forward looking in nature, and a disclaimer to this effect have been included in the earnings presentation shared with you earlier.I would now like to invite Mr. Edward Menezes to make his opening remarks. Thank you. And over to you, sir.

[Edward Menezes, executive]

Thank you. Good evening, everyone. And thank you for joining us on our Q4 and FY '23 earnings call to discuss the operating and financial performance for the quarter. I hope you all had the opportunity to go through our results presentation, which provides details of our operational and financial performance.We were pleased to report a healthy finish to the year with our standalone revenues increasing by 11.3% on a quarter-on-quarter basis. While we faced several challenges during the year, we believe we have successfully addressed them and are now better-positioned to deliver consistent growth going forward. Throughout the past year, we faced significant volatility in the price of raw materials, which resulted in some business disruptions. However, by focusing on our inherent strengths, we were able to onboard several new customers which have helped us grow our revenues on a sequential basis.Despite the challenges presented by market fluctuations, we have continued to prioritize our mission of offering high quality sustainable products to our customers, while remaining agile in response to changing market conditions. Since our inception, we have remained dedicated to the advancement of sustainable and environmentally friendly chemicals. This sustainability focus is an integral part of our strategy. And we have continuously seeded a range of eco friendly products with several customers in our base industries such as HPPC, Textile, and AHN, as well as in emerging sectors for us such as paints, paper, water treatment, agro chemicals and others.With a growing global demand for sustainable solutions, we are optimistic about commercializing our investments in this phase going forward. Overall, our strong financial position, strengthened product portfolio, adequate capacities and other inherent strengths provide a solid foundation for us to deliver healthy financial and operational performance in the coming years. We remain committed to delivering long-term value to all our stakeholders while maintaining our market position as a top provider of intelligent and sustainable solutions.With this I would like to conclude my address and I now hand it over to Mr. Chari for his comments.

[Sunil Chari, executive]

Thank you, Edward Sir. Good evening and a warm namaste to everyone. Financial year 2023 has been a challenging year for our standalone business with pressure on volumes and margins. However, our team was able to navigate the situation and close the year on a steady note. To a large extent we not only managed to recoup our volumes but also improve our margins. At a consolidated level, we remained extremely pleased with our outcome of our acquisitions. [indiscernible] exceptional synergies in various aspects, including R&D, service development, market research and personnel. Also, the chemical industry was facing a challenging. The revenue and EBITDA [indiscernible] since FY 2022 increased by 23% and 7%, respectively, reaching INR 763.2 crores and INR 98.5 crores in FY 2023. These figures [indiscernible] the positive impact of our acquisitions and the successful integration of these companies into our business. Here I'm happy to share that we have successfully acquired the final tranche of Tristar, making it a wholly-owned subsidiary as of 1st April 2023. Additionally, we are on track to fully acquire Unitop in the upcoming fiscal year.Looking ahead to the demand scenario in the upcoming fiscal year, we anticipate healthy growth in our HPPC segment due to new client additions, a growing product portfolio and expanding market reach, including export opportunities. In the Textile segment, we continue to face demand uncertainties in the near term due to global factors. However, we remain optimistic that we will see an uptick in demand in the second half of FY '24.As for our AHN business, we are very bullish about this demand outlook and are confident in our ability to double its venue over the next 2, 3 years. To sum up, we remain dedicated to providing long-term value to all of our stakeholders while maintaining our market position as a leading preorder of intelligent and sustainable solutions. We are confident in our ability to capitalize on emerging growth opportunities in the market as we continue to innovate and evolve.On this note, I would now request Ketanji to [indiscernible].

[Ketan Sablok, executive]

Thank you, C Chari Sir, and good evening, everyone. We closed the year on a positive note with a consistent performance in quarter 4. Y-o-Y-o-y, for Q4, even though the revenues were down 7%, we were able to show improvement in gross margins and maintained our GP margins at 30%. Also, the EBITDA grew by 4%, maintaining a margin of around 13.4%. For FY '23, we have been able to consistently improve our performance and margins. We have ended the year with gross margins of 29% compared to 25% last year, and EBITDA of 13.5% versus 12.4% last year.Both Unitop and Tristar ended the year on a strong note, registering a top line growth of over 30% Y-on-Y with good margins. We've been able to synergize the business between the group companies very well, be it in operations, sales, R&D and the new business development. The impact of these synergies will further be visible in the years to come.As mentioned by Chari Sir, we have completed the acquisition of the additional 16% stake in Tristar, making it a 100% fully-owned company as of 12th April '23. We incurred a net adjusted outflow of about INR 17 crores for the final trance, and it was funded through our internal accruals.Rossari's operational and balance sheet status remains strong and robust. As of March '23, our net cash on a consolidated basis stayed at INR 77 crores. With the normalization of both the overall macroeconomic landscape and the RM situation, we are confident in our ability to consistently deliver healthy performance across all our business verticals in the coming years. Overall, we remain confident in our ability to deliver long-term value to our stakeholders who are focused on profitability, innovation and growth.On that note, I would request Manasi to take you through the financials for the quarter, post which we will be happy to take questions from your side.

[Manasi Nisal, executive]

Thank you, Ketan Sir. Good evening, everyone. Let me provide you with a brief overview of the financial performance for the quarter and full year ended 31st March 2023. In terms of overall performance, the company's revenue for the quarter amounted to INR 406.5 crores as against INR 389.3 crores in Q3 FY '23. On a stand-alone basis, the company's revenue from operations for Q4 FY '23 was INR 263.6 crores as compared to INR 236.9 crore in Q3 FY '23. Among the company's business segments, HPPC generated revenues of INR 1,157 crores, which accounted for 70% of total company's revenue. Following HPPC, the TSC business contributed INR 373.2 crores, accounting for 23% of the total company's revenue. AHN also contributed INR 125.7 crores, making up 7% of the company's total revenue on a consolidated basis.On a stand-alone basis, EBITDA stood at INR 35.8 crores as against INR 31.9 crores in Q3 FY '23. PAT during the quarter stood at INR 23.1 crores as against 17.5% in Q3 FY '23. On a consolidated basis, EBITDA stood at INR 54.6 crores as against INR 54.2 crores in Q3 FY '23. PAT during the quarter stood at INR 29 crores as against INR 25.7 crores in Q3 FY '23. On a full year basis, our consolidated revenue from operations in FY '23 stood at INR 1,655.9 crores, up by 11.7% on Y-o-Y basis.Revenue from HPPC stood at INR 476.3 crores, contributing to 49% of revenue, followed by the TSC business at INR 373.2 crores, contributing to 38% and AHN INR 125.7 crores, contributing 13% of total revenue. On a profitability front, EBITDA stood at INR 122.7 crores as against INR 122.8 crores in FY '22. EBITDA margin stood at 12.6%.Depreciation increased to INR 62.9 crores owing to amortization of fair valuation on account of consolidation of subsidiaries. Interest cost during the quarter -- during the year stood at INR 22.3 crores, PAT during the year stood at INR 107.3 crores as against INR 97.7 crores in FY '22. From a balance sheet perspective, cash and cash equivalents during the fiscal stood at INR 69.8 crores. Additionally, the net cash flow from operating activities for the year was healthy INR 152.4 crores.On that note, I'll come to the end of my opening remarks and would request the moderator to open the forum for any questions that you may have. Thank you.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] We have the first question from the line of Sanjesh Jain from ICICI Securities.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

First on the Unitop and the Tristar, one clarification and a question. For this quarter, it looks like the subsidiaries, which is Unitop and Tristar had a 20% Y-o-Y decline in the sales. Can you help us understand what is leading to such a charge decline? And despite the anticipation that the synergy benefit will drive the revenue growth faster. So what is the thing which is hurting the growth in the Unitop and the Tristar put together? That's number one. Number two, for FY '20, I think Ketan Sir did mention that the like-to-like or, I don't know, Unitop and Tristar had a 20% revenue growth for the year. So can you give us the Unitop number for FY '23 similarly as we disclosed for the Tristar as well? That would be helpful. And this 20% growth is on a like-for-like basis or how it is? The these are first 3 questions.

[Sunil Chari, executive]

This is Sunil Chari here. Tristar, as you told, in the last earnings call also, the major exports was in Europe, and Europe has been affected after the Ukraine war, and that is why we had pressure on sales and pressure on margins. One thing also we need to see is there are some new customers developed by Rossari because of synergy benefits, which you also mentioned in the presentation and our earlier earning calls. And when we do sales from Tristar or Unitop to Rossari, in the console it gets neutralized and there is no sales seen in Unitop or Tristar. So now our request would be to see the company on a consolidated basis rather than standalone Tristar and Unitop basis. Unitop also traditionally the first half is more stronger than the second half, which we always told in our calls. And we expect the current and the next quarter to be better than the earlier quarters.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

No, no, when I'm looking at standalone [indiscernible] I'm looking at the third-party sales. So any [indiscernible] in the base also the interparty transactions get negative. So on a like-to-like third-party basis, it has declined by 20%. And I don't think this will have entirely come from Tristar because Tristar is only INR 200 crores of revenue per annum. And how has been the Unitop performance in that sense? Can you explain that?

[Sunil Chari, executive]

Okay. I will answer [indiscernible] Unitop now we are sourcing [indiscernible] totally from outside. We were sourcing it from other companies. Now this sourcing has come from Unitop. And again, because if you buy from outside, then there is no issue. So if you buy from Unitop or Tristar, in the consolidated that gets knocked off. Hence, you see the lower sales because [indiscernible]. And because this is -- we were buy from outside and it has come into Rossari, it is not seen as sales of Rossari because it is coming from Unitop.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

No, no, I understand that Chari. [indiscernible] I'm talking about third-party sales. That looks like decline. And we thought that there is enough headroom within the capacity to meet the demand for the Rossari in that case. Is it my right understanding that you are telling that the compromise [indiscernible] less to third party to service more to Rossari [indiscernible] is that the right understanding?

[Sunil Chari, executive]

No. Any new customer which is generated because of synergy and if it is a customer of Rossari, the sales happen through Rossari wherever it is manufactured, whether manufactured at Tristar or whether manufactured at Unitop.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

Okay. Okay. That means you [indiscernible] Rossari lot of sales in the standalone [indiscernible] is also because of Unitop and Tristar and it's not purely on a like-to-like basis to compare the standalone is delivering that growth. Is that a fair understanding?

[Sunil Chari, executive]

Because what we were doing is if there was [indiscernible] and we were buying it from outside and selling it to our customers. Now we are buying this from Unitop. So it is not that standalone it's not growing. Standalone is growing, standalone has grown. But the purchase has happened from Unitop and that is knocked up in the control.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

No, no, I understand that Chari Sir. What you are telling, I understand. I'm telling it would have been true even for the base year also, right? For the last year Q4 FY '22.

[Sunil Chari, executive]

[Foreign Language].

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

[Foreign Language]. I mean, despite you paying the [indiscernible] has eased and even then our sales on a like-to-like basis will decline.

[Sunil Chari, executive]

I did not understand your question. [Foreign Language] if you are buying your products from outside, we started buying from Unitop. And if you're buying…

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

See, that is fine, that is fine, that is fine. It doesn't impact the mathematics of it.

[Sunil Chari, executive]

No, no. For example, if you see our Textile business has degrown. But as a standalone basis the business is still strong in HPPC and Textile. The raw material has come from Unitop and Tristar.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

Let me take this offline. I think I'll take this offline. And the second question is [indiscernible]. What is the revenue EBITDA for the Unitop for FY '23?

[Sunil Chari, executive]

FY '23, Sanjesh, Unitop's revenue is INR 554 crores. EBITDA is about INR 81 crores.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

INR 81 crores. And Ketan Sir, in your opening remarks you talked about 20% Y-o-Y growth in the acquisition company. Can you help us understand whether you're talking on a like-to-like basis or there is lesser revenue we recognized because we bought it in the mid of the year last year, right?

[Ketan Sablok, executive]

So what I said was on a like-to-like basis. See, accounts, it will be for 7 months. But just for giving you a flavor of the growth that has come in, it is on a like-for-like basis. So Unitop's revenue, as I said, INR 554 crores in the current year, it was about INR 454 crores in last full year, of Unitop'SKF [indiscernible].

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

Fair enough. Second on -- I know there has been too much of a price volatility in FY '23 for us to appreciate the performance. Can you help us understand what was the volume growth in FY '23 to understand how have we done for FY '23? That's number one. And number two is on the gross profit. I think sequentially there is a sharp drop in the raw material prices. Even mathematically, the margin should have gone up if the gross profit [indiscernible] was protected. But what we are seeing is the sequential decline in the margin. Was there any inventory losses because of a very steep fall? Or why there is a decline versus a growth in the margin?

[Unknown Executive]

Sanjesh Sir, as we explained in the last call, our raw material prices have fallen if you compare '21-'22 to '22-'23. Similarly, if raw material prices have fallen the finished goods prices would have fallen. Now on a like-to-like basis [Foreign Language] 20% we have grown in spite of falling of raw material prices. And so you can see the growth in Unitop [Foreign Language] Unitop has grown and there would be at least 10%, 15% fall in raw material prices. [Foreign Language].

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

[Foreign Language]. 20% growth is for the full year.

[Unknown Executive]

[Foreign Language].

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

[Foreign Language]. My question was more on the margin and the FY '23 volumes.

[Unknown Executive]

Right, right. [Foreign Language] volumes we are not able to work out because product which changes from quarter-to-quarter, product-to-product, division-to-division. So volumes, we are never able to measure in Rossari. And measuring volumes quarter-to-quarter or even year-on-year, quarter-to-quarter is not very easy for us.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

Fair. And on the margin, what is -- why the margins have declined despite a fall in the raw material prices. I think arithmetically, the margin [Foreign Language] and then you got the benefit of raw material pricing falling in coming into your margins. So why there is a decline in the margins and the gross profit level on a sequential basis?

[Unknown Executive]

Sanjesh, yes, let me try to explain this. So a few quarters back [indiscernible] started doing a lot of cross-selling and synergizing [indiscernible] sales of operations across the group. So in the last quarter and the quarter before that, we have started with [indiscernible] sales of Tristar and Unitop through the Rossari [indiscernible] customers and distributors. So that -- as we have said, we want to [indiscernible] customers on to the Rossari [indiscernible] and start doing that [indiscernible] from this year itself so that post [indiscernible] whenever we bring all the companies under one umbrella, we are able to use the Rossari customers know about that, and that is what is happening now quarter-on-quarter. Now as most of these sales are getting billed now to Rossari the part of the margins are getting booked at Rossari and part of the margins are getting booked at the subsidiary level because the transfer is happening at a [indiscernible] basis. So the request will be that the ideal way to now start looking at the numbers is on a consolidated level because certain RFP margins will remain in RBS and certain part of the margin will remain in the subsidiary. So we should look at the consolidated numbers to understand the entire margin profile of all the [indiscernible]. And the other reason also that's not the gross margin, but quarter-on-quarter on a consolidated level, if you see the EBITDA have fallen slightly because in this quarter, since we bought out [indiscernible] in April. But we have done the full and final settlement of some of these senior directors in Tristar. And that onetime substantial impact is also factored into the other expenses, which have also impacted the EBITDA for this quarter, not [indiscernible] remains stagnant at almost INR 54 crores, INR 55 crores.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

How much was that? [Foreign Language].

[Unknown Executive]

[Foreign Language] INR 2.5 crores, INR 3 crores we had given to a couple of [indiscernible] full and final settlement.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

Which is not part of the payment, which is part of the OpEx.

[Unknown Executive]

Yes.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

Got it. Got it. And Ketan Sir, on the same note, even sequentially, on a consolidated basis, the gross profit margin has come up by 40 bps, not as high as it is in the standalone, but here also the margins have come off [indiscernible] I think it was a scope for margin expansion just before the arithmetic.

[Ketan Sablok, executive]

Yes. So, Sanjesh, see, price start, we have been significantly on the export side. And that to [indiscernible] export margins in Tristar has been quite strong. But in Europe exports coming down significantly, that's kind of impacting the overall gross margins. Once the [indiscernible] in Tristar pickup, I think we should see some of the margin improvements coming through.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

Got it. Got it. And sir, two last questions from my side. One on the Textile side is what is behind because I can see sequentially we have grown by 10%. And how should we see Textile because you still sound slightly cautious on the Textile side. Well, the numbers have sequentially been very good. And second, on the animal health and nutrition, it looks like suddenly firing. What is driving such a strong growth in AHN business?

[Unknown Executive]

So the Textile segment [indiscernible] we had a better quarter this year, but we are still being cautious because we are seeing the market is still quite sluggish. We were able to add some new products during this quarter which helped us do a little better than Q3. Now what we understand from the customers in the market, that's what we would like to currently [indiscernible] the demand should start picking up from the second half of this year. So that's what the understanding is as of now [indiscernible] crazy over the last 1 year. So every time we think that the [indiscernible] is over, it really doesn't happen there. But currently, this is what the understanding is. And on the AHN front, I think we ended the year on a strong note, almost [indiscernible] crores. We expect this business now to maintain its growth trajectory. We've added some new customers, we've added new products [indiscernible] quite aggressive now. We're also setting up a small CapEx for the [indiscernible]. And that is still a few months away, but we anticipate that once that comes through [indiscernible] from the later half of Q2 and Q3, we should see some good sales in the second half of this year with this CapEx coming through. So we are quite [indiscernible] on the AHN front.

[Unknown Executive]

[Foreign Language] Tristar even after phenol prices and phenoxyethanol prices coming down, on a year-on-year basis we have grown 27% from INR 154 crores like-on-like basis to INR 209 crores.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

No, I was talking more from the [indiscernible].

[Unknown Executive]

[indiscernible] Europe going down. We have been able to get some good customers who are new customers which Rossari has brought in. And because part of the business of [indiscernible] has gone into Rossari because sales of Rossari hence [Foreign Language]. But even after falling finished good prices, we've done well at Tristar.

[Sanjesh Jain, analyst]

Sunil Sir, I completely appreciate the early performance it looks very strong. I'm telling exit looks on a weaker footing because at least the number talks about a decline from the Q4. I completely take your point for the full year. We have done fantastic. I'm not debating on that part of the point.

[Operator]

We have the next question from the line of Nitin Tiwari from YES Securities.

[Nitin Tiwari, analyst]

Sir, my question is related to the HPPC segment. So you've highlighted that Textiles, you are still facing headwinds and you've given a positive commentary on AHN. So how is the HPPC segment looking for FY '24? And because in the past 4 quarters at least we have seen a declining trend of revenue. So my first worry was that. And secondly, why is that on a stand-alone basis the number is sort of steady for the segment but when consolidated with the subsidiary, there is a decline that we see consistently across the past 4 quarters. And related to that, you had earlier alluded to basically a large customer now not being part of our portfolio. So have we completely recovered that loss of revenue or we are still in the process?

[Ketan Sablok, executive]

So I'll just quickly take you through. So HPPC, as we have said that we've lost one large customer [indiscernible] part of last quarter. Current quarter, we had no sales from that customer. So that's one of the reasons why we have not seen the growth in HPPC [indiscernible]. But however, I think we've been able to maintain our sales number in spite of the access of a large account. Going forward, I think to cover up this, we [indiscernible] a large number of customers in the detergent industry. So large number of smaller customers are [indiscernible] in that space. Also, we are working in some of the new segments of [indiscernible] and paper. So one of the large [indiscernible] started now working with is HUL, and a lot of the supply or ingredients for these detergents have started. We already worked [indiscernible] started working with them 2 of the plants. I think over this year, we will add a few more plants going forward. And of course with the agro [indiscernible] I think within a couple of quarters we should be able to cover up this entire piece of loss that we have [indiscernible].

[Sunil Chari, executive]

To add here, so Keran Sir, I'm Chari here. Our HPPC now on a consol basis, 70% of sales, and textiles is 23% and AHN is 8%. So, as we said, that we have to look at it on a consolidated basis. 2 years back we were 50% in HPPC of the total sale. Now were at 70%, and we expect this to become better.

[Nitin Tiwari, analyst]

Great. [indiscernible] answer actually for that guidance. I just wanted to have this understanding around HPPC segment in terms of the segmentation, if we look at, although you said that [indiscernible] we should be looking at it from a consolidated perspective, but nonetheless why is that looking -- on a standalone basis the segment looks steady. But when we consolidate with the subsidiary accounts, then there is a decline that we see, sharper decline, rather that we see on a sequential basis as well as on a Y-o-Y basis. So just wanted to understand that. That how is the same business segment getting different traction in standalone entity and the subsidiary? And correct my understanding if it's wrong [indiscernible].

[Sunil Chari, executive]

No, no, you're right. If we consolidate it, the HPPC and the quarter-on-quarter has seen a slight decline. And as we said, that's mainly because of Q4 doing a lower export for Tristar. That is what has impacted the HPPC segment quarter-over-quarter.

[Nitin Tiwari, analyst]

Okay. So the last customer that we lost was with the stand-alone entity, right? And we have grown despite like that large customer not being there in the fourth quarter. And we have -- so does that -- I mean imply we are practically made up for all the lost revenue to the accounts that you [indiscernible] manufactures like HUL?

[Sunil Chari, executive]

Yes. So this quarter we have [indiscernible] in Q3 also that customer was there only for about, I think, 1 month, 1.5 months, so we only had a few shipments [indiscernible]. But if you see our last year numbers, then you will get probably a better idea. Q4 of last year had a significantly larger chunk of net sales [indiscernible].

[Operator]

We have the next question from the line of [ Aditya Chira ] from InCred Asset Management.

[Unknown Analyst]

Aditya here from Incred. Couple of questions. One on the interest cost, the cash cost has been INR 6 crores, and the reported is INR 22 crores. What would that be for '24 going ahead? How much of that is to be accounted for?

[Unknown Executive]

Can you come again? We didn't quite get your question [indiscernible].

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes. So the interest cost which we reported for this year has been INR 22 crores. A part of that is an accounting entity for consolidating the M&A companies. So what would that be for the subsequent years, for '24?

[Unknown Executive]

So '24 would be -- as of now, it will come down because currently we have about INR 74 crores of loan in our books for INR 20 crores of working capital [indiscernible]. Sequentially it will come down. Given that bifurcation in -- that's why we have given that bifurcation in our presentation of what is the normal interest cost and what's the interest cost because of the [indiscernible]. So for next year, I think as of now, we should be same as what is there in FY '24. It will be slightly lower than that, what it is in the current year. I don't have the exact number now.

[Unknown Analyst]

Got it. Next, could you share the capacity utilization across the company? And if for Tristar and Unitop you have separately.

[Unknown Executive]

So for an overall company level, I think we are at utilization of over 50%, 55% across most of our plans.

[Unknown Analyst]

Got it. And if I look forward for FY '24, so you mentioned in your opening remarks but that most of it is -- this is on the growth drivers across segments. So could you allude to what should be the growth drivers going ahead for all the 3 different segments? And if there are any product-specific growth drivers or customer-specific growth drivers in terms of wallet share, which you are sort of looking forward to? And if you can share on what are the key growth drivers you are looking for FY '24?

[Edward Menezes, executive]

Hi, I'm Edward here. So there in various verticals, we have elaborate plans for the next couple of years. One of the important verticals that we want to grow and we have been mentioning that we want to double this in the next 2 to 3 years with the animal health and nutrition segment. Like Ketan Sir has mentioned in the opening remarks, that a small CapEx is being done here, and we are putting in place a premix plant. This premix plant will help us improve our quality and also make the product line a continuous product line for vitamins, for mineral mixes as well as for enzymes. Then in the Animal Health and Nutrition, we've already developed a range of products for the aqua business. And the business development is the next step -- the business development, this vertical has already started. And we have introduced [indiscernible] for gut health and to reduce antibiotics. This will be another big blockbuster for us. And we also installed a granulation facility at the plant. This is primarily done to increase our efficiency of [indiscernible] as well as as a product differentiation. In the HPPC segment, in addition to the [indiscernible] product for powder, we've developed an excellent product [indiscernible] for liquid detergent because the normal ARDs, as we call the [indiscernible] products, they are not compatible with liquid detergents. Here we've developed a product and we have quite good traction for these products. In the water treatment chemicals, in HPPC, we have focused on the textile industry, in the [ CETP ] for the Textile industry. And these have yielded very good results for us. We have also entered the technical Textile coating industry. Business development is in full swing. And it has given us very good traction. In the coating chemicals that we do in HPPC for [indiscernible], paper, ceramic as well as pharma tablet coating, we have introduced a few new products, which are highly modified, which are better [indiscernible] properties. And we've seen good [indiscernible] from the paint industry for this product. In the pharma tablet coating, we have received the FDA approval for this product and production is likely to start in the coming quarter. If you look at the textile, synergistically, we have started manufacturing the silicon oils as well as the block silicons in-house. And this has increased flexibility for Rossari and also made us more competitive here. In the yarn lubricant segments for silicones, we have developed a product for yarn lubricant, which is a silicon wax. And a small CapEx for [indiscernible] equipment is in place. In [indiscernible] also there is a steady progress. We started this about a year ago, and we have made good progress in the [ POI ] and [ PY ], polypropylene and polyamide space. A new product line has been introduced in the additives for regenerative cellulars, which is lyocell. And we started this business development and acquired a few companies there. Similarly, in the agro space, focus is on development of emulsifiers for new trends where a combination of technicals is used. And one very exciting business that we have entered is the silicone [indiscernible] and we have also started doing some CapEx here to scale up. So there are many other initiatives that we have taken, but I've given you a small gist of what we are doing and how the business development is going.

[Unknown Analyst]

Fair. Adding to another question which I had. So we mentioned about choosing better-margin products. Now with customers such as HUL coming in where predominantly a premium player in terms of detergents versus someone like [indiscernible] which we used to cater, how are you looking at this market where -- do you think the [indiscernible] has already played out or it would sort of continue to play out and that would help you to sort of deliver higher realization products going ahead? If you have any comments on that or any outlook on that.

[Unknown Executive]

So the ingredients that we manufacture, most of the raw materials and the technology is our own. And therefore, we definitely have a cost advantage over other manufacturers. And we hope that we will make decent margins with the ingredients to the detergent industry. Earlier, actually, our hands were tied and we could not go country-wise or even to the Southeast Asian countries. But with a new situation where now we are free to sell our ingredients to [indiscernible] all India as well as to the neighboring countries, you would have seen that we have been doing well even though we lost the large customer. So in addition to that, the margins also would be more here because we've been able to launch a battery of products here. Whereas in the previous regime, we had only one product and we were restricted to that product.

[Unknown Analyst]

Got it. And last question from my end. So for Rossari standalone, the asset turns were as high as 6, 7x. This is just on the reported gross block numbers. And the subsidiary have a little lower asset turns. So on a consol basis, given the growth profile is very similar across all the 3 segments, is the 4x a good asset turn number to work with on a consol number going ahead with what the gross lock we have currently 4 to 5x? Or what is the number you are looking at going ahead?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. I think currently, for the next year, we can go with a number of 4 to 5x. But our plan is that as the business [indiscernible] we do not plan to add much to the [indiscernible] block in the next at least 2 to 3 years. So if we are able to ramp up the business as flat, I think this Textile number, we should see a good improvement. Probably 2 years down the line we should see a good improvement also.

[Unknown Analyst]

Got it. So the reason I was asking is that we are already at INR 450 crores of gross block. And at, say, 4, 4.5x we will be at the INR 2,000 crore top line, which we are envisaging. So can you [indiscernible] what would be the CapEx for the next 2 years if you have any number, INR 40 crores, INR 50 crores is the number for '24 and '24.

[Unknown Executive]

See, yes. Ideally we should be around that that number itself. For at least for next year we will be around that number.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of [ SM Kumar ], an investor.

[Unknown Attendee]

Sir, my question regarding [indiscernible] like that any kind of enzyme product can we expect next 1 year?

[Unknown Executive]

For the entire product, actually we are working on a product which is a bio product basically, which we use as a surfactant. So we are using -- we are working on this kind of a product, and we are excited that we'll be able to introduce this product in a few months' time.

[Operator]

We have the next question from the line of Nitin Tiwari from YES Securities.

[Nitin Tiwari, analyst]

Sir, can you just repeat the revenue and the EBITDA number for Unitop and Tristar separately?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. So Unitop this year was INR 554 crores, Tristar was 209 crores.

[Nitin Tiwari, analyst]

And the EBITDA for Unitop was I think INR 81 crores, right? So what was the same for Tristar.

[Unknown Executive]

INR 81 crores. And Tristar was INR 18 crores.

[Nitin Tiwari, analyst]

INR 18 crores? INR 81 crores?

[Unknown Analyst]

INR 81 crores, INR 81 crores.

[Nitin Tiwari, analyst]

And the same figures for last year, sir, if you would, please?

[Unknown Executive]

Last full year, Unitop was INR 464 crores and Tristar was, yes, INR 164 crores.

[Nitin Tiwari, analyst]

INR 164 crores. And EBITDA number, sir, for both of them?

[Unknown Executive]

Unitop was 69. And Tristar was 70.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of Aashish Upganlawar from InvesQ Investment Advisors.

[Aashish Upganlawar, analyst]

Sir, to gauge whatever is happening based on the commentary that we have heard from you throughout this call, there are different moving parts in different segments and subsidiaries and your standalone. So to sum up everything, how do we read into the coming year FY '24? And should we -- because see there are lot of volatilities in the raw material cost and the pricing and stuff. So looking at only the top line in terms of numbers and EBITDA margins, it becomes difficult to make a picture of the company in terms of growth. So we are stuck around at INR 100 crores of bottom line of INR 100 crores, INR 110 crores for quite some time now. So what should we expect over the coming couple of years from you?

[Sunil Chari, executive]

[Foreign Language] So what we did is we had the loss of one big customer which [indiscernible]. The focus seems to be growth in HPPC. As you know, we are into 4 chemisties with surfactant, acrylic, enzyme and silicones. The surfactant chemistry seems to be something which is picking up steam every passing day, exposed to something which is picking speed every passing years. If you see, our exports last year was INR 264 crores, and this year was INR 380 crores. And the HPPC anyway has gone from INR 956 crores to INR 1,156 crores. So this year we would see HPPC increasing further. The Textile, we are at INR 373 crores. And this mix was not very big, not very big growth. AHN should do very well this year. So on a whole, what is that we are looking at, it's not top line. What is that we are not looking at is EBITDA percentage. What is we are looking at is EBITDA is an absolute amount. So our internal target is 20% growth in EBITDA over the control EBITDA which was there. That is the focus area [Foreign Language] you are not focusing. Last year, we had a lot of setback in terms of [indiscernible] did not do well. The Ukraine war created a lot of issues. We lost a big customer. And generally, [indiscernible] prices and the raw material prices came down. But there is still a same going up and down, up and down in the raw material based on supply and demand for raw materials. Consequently, the prices of raw materials [indiscernible] are going up and down also. We learned the lesson from 2021-'22 and '22-'23 that we will not do any [indiscernible] positions [indiscernible] long contracts with our customers. And we hold this position that we will not do this. We have been always prudent that we do not do very big positions and raw material. And if you see our inventory levels and [indiscernible] levels. Ours is a very, very good and very disciplined [indiscernible] have been there for the last 25 years. Similarly, ForEx we have never hedged and we will never hedge also. In terms of operations, this year we want to merge our companies. Tristar is already 100%-owned subsidiary. Unitop will be in August. And we'll start the process of mergers. And hopefully, by 31st March 2024, will be 1 consolidated team instead of Rossari having 2 subsidiaries. The growth from HPPC segment in various industries would continue to do well. Agro, home and personal care [indiscernible] a healthy demand outlook for the coming financial year. AHN is a smaller base. And it is now at INR 125 crores. So we should see the highest growth as a percentage in AHN this year.

[Aashish Upganlawar, analyst]

Okay. So basically, we are looking at 20% EBITDA growth, that's the bottom line. And given that there is no additional CapEx and depreciation, everything should be under control. So you should be gunning for a 25% kind of bottom line growth this year.

[Sunil Chari, executive]

The 20%. That 20% is something we have projected in our own budget.

[Operator]

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the floor back to the management for closing comments. Please go ahead.

[Unknown Analyst]

So thank you. I hope we have been able to answer all your questions satisfactorily. Should you need any further clarifications or would like to know more about the company, please feel free to contact our team or CDR India. Thank you once again for taking the time to join us on this call. Good evening to all.

[Operator]

Thank you, gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Rossari Biotech Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.