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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Rossari Biotech Limited earnings conference call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Ms. Aesha Shah from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you.
Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on Rossari Biotech Q3 and 9 Months FY '23 Earnings Conference Call. We have with us Mr. Edward Menezes, Promoter and Executive Chairman; Mr. Sunil Chari, Promoter and Managing Director; Mr. Ketan Sablok, Group Chief Financial Officer; and Manasi Nisal, Chief Financial Officer. We will begin the call with the opening remarks from the management, following which we will have the forum open for question-and-answer session.
Before we start, I would like to point out that some statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature, and a disclaimer to this effect has been included in the earnings presentation shared with you earlier.
I would like to invite Mr. Edward Menezes to make his opening remark. Thank you, and over to you sir.
Thank you, Aesha. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us on our Q3 and 9 months FY '23 earnings call to discuss the operating and financial performance for the quarter. I hope you all had the opportunity to go through our results presentation, which provides details of our operational and financial performance.
We have reported a stable performance during the quarter despite the ongoing challenging operating environment. All our stand-alone segments, including HPPC, Textile and AHN have reported a stable performance. However, our subsidiaries our subsidiaries witnessed a slowdown due to subdued demand, leading to lower consolidated sales during the quarter. During the quarter, we were able to improve our margin performance both on a Q-o-Q and on a Y-o-Y basis as a result of moderating raw material prices. Our focus continued on prioritizing products with better margins, which has resulted in improved profitability. As the market begins to stabilize, we should see improved performance moving forward.
The company has been committed to the development of green and sustainable chemicals since its inception. This focus on sustainability is part of the company's identity, and we have invested in R&D to create a range of eco-friendly products over the years. Given the global shift towards environmentally friendly solutions, we hope to capitalize on our investments as well as help create a healthier and more sustainable future.
With this, I would like to conclude my address, and I now hand it over to Mr. Chari for his comments.
Thank you, Edward ji. Good evening and a warm Namaste to everyone. Q3 remained a challenging quarter for us with our subsidiaries facing some slowdown. At a stand-alone level, we have maintained our revenues while improving our margin performance. As the operating environment stabilizes, we believe we are well equipped to pursue high-growth opportunities given our comprehensive product offerings, flexible capacities and R&D capabilities. Additionally, our acquisitions have expanded our presence into new regions and product categories, further broadening our growth horizons.
Our commitment to R&D has been instrumental in establishing Rossari as a leading specialty chemicals manufacturer, providing intelligent and sustainable solutions. With a proven track record of developing innovative and tailored chemical solutions for customers across multiple industries, we aim to expand our customer base in our existing segments, while also exploring new industries such as water treatment, paper, ceramic and cement. Our recent launches in these industries have received favorable responses and we are optimistic about achieving growth in this segment in the coming years.
The specialty chemicals industry in India is poised for subsequent significant growth in the coming years, driven by factors such as increasing demand for specialized chemicals in various end-use industries as a shift towards sustainable solutions. Despite the industry facing some near-term headwinds, the long-term outlook remains positive and intact. The Indian government's support for the growth of the domestic specialty chemical sector is also a positive factor. In the long run, we believe that the specialty chemicals industry in India presents a bright future and offers promising opportunities for growth.
On this note, I would now request Ketan sir to share his perspective.
Thank you, Chari sir, and good evening to everyone. Rossari performed steadily during this quarter on a stand-alone level despite the pressures we experienced in previous quarters. Our subsidiaries witnessed a slowdown in Q3 due to decreased demand, which resulted in lower sales on a consolidated basis. However, I'm happy to say that post acquisition, on a 9-month basis, both our subsidiaries have done exceptionally well both in terms of top line as well as the margins. We have been able to synergize the business between the group companies very well, be it in operations, sales, R&D and new business development. The impact of this will further be visible over the next few years.
We continue to focus on expanding our high-margin product portfolio. This was evident in our improved gross margins and EBITDA over the last few quarters. Our gross margins have improved to reach 30% in Q3 FY '23 compared to 25% in Q3 FY '22. The improvement is visible in the stand-alone business also with the gross margin moving up from 22% in Q3 FY '22 to 29% in Q3 FY '23. Furthermore, our EBITDA margins also improved to reach 14% compared to 11% in Q3 FY '22. So the uptick in margins is clearly visible both in the stand-alone and the consolidated business.
Rossari's financial position continues to remain robust. A solid balance sheet, positive cash flows and other inherent strengths will enable the company to continue its growth trajectory in the coming quarters. Overall, we remain confident in our ability to deliver long-term value to our stakeholders through our focus on profitability, innovation and growth.
That's all from my side. I would now request Manasi to take you quickly through the financials for the quarter and 9 months, and then we will open the forum for the Q&A. Thank you.
Thank you, Ketan, sir. Good evening, everyone. Let me provide you with a brief overview of the financial performance for the quarter ended December 31, 2023.
On a consolidated basis, revenues came in at INR 389 crores as against INR 428 crores in Q3 FY '22. On a stand-alone basis, revenue from operations stood at INR 237 crores compared to INR 268 crores in Q3 FY '22. Revenues from HPPC stood at INR 271 crores, contributing to 69.7% of revenues, followed by Textile businesses at INR 89.5 crores, contributing to 23%, and AHN at INR 28.6 crores, contributing to 7.3% of total revenues on a consolidated basis.
On a stand-alone basis, EBITDA stood at INR 32 crores as against INR 28 crores in Q2 FY '23. PAT during the quarter stood at INR 17.5 crores as against INR 15.4 crores in Q2 FY '23. On a consolidated basis, EBITDA stood at INR 54.2 crores as against INR 56.5 crores in Q2 FY '23. PAT during the quarter stood at INR 25.7 crores as against INR 23.9 crores in Q2 FY '23.
On that note, I come to the end of my opening remarks and would request the moderator to open the forum for any questions that you may have. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] We have our first question from the line of Sanjesh from ICICI Securities.
I got a few of them, hopefully I don't exceed the time. But starting with the revenue side, can you explain, the stand-alone revenue, though on lower base, it has been flattish, and Q3 is generally a stronger quarter. And annualized Q3 number, we are still significantly lower than what we did in FY '22. And then in the same context, can you help us understand what was the volume growth? Because I know that the prices have been falling because of the softening of raw material prices, so it doesn't give the right picture. So to understand it better, 2 things. Can help us understand the volume. And second, I also request -- I know you don't give the subsegmental number, but can you just broadly help us understand how our Ingredient, Private Label, Buzil, and Performance Chemical are doing in the stand-alone? That's my first question.
Yes. Sanjesh, see, on the stand-alone business, we've been stagnant on the quarter-on-quarter performance. I think the one segment that has seen some headwind would be Textile Chemical division. We have seen a little low down on the textile sector, and that's impacting the TSC business a lot. So that's one of the reasons why we're not seeing a real growth coming on the standalone. Secondly, on the HPPC, we've been able to maintain our run rate on the stand-alone business, even though we had some headwinds with at least one of the customers. But we've been able to cover that to a larger extent with some new customer additions, especially one key element we've added in the last quarter. I think that's helping us play out quite well and helping us cover this business loss which we've had. I think going forward, in the next couple of quarters, we should be in a position to negate this loss on an entirety.
AHN, we have seen good growth. Year-on-year almost 20% growth we have seen. Q on Q has been a little stagnant, but we expect the momentum in the division to continue, and we are expecting Q4 in AHN to be stronger. And then going forward into the next year, we expect this business to grow significantly, at least between 30% to 35% kind of growth we are expecting in the AHN. Though it's a small base business, but it's a high value and high margin business for us. So that's on the stand-alone. So if you have anything else on the stand-alone, I can clarify.
Just as a follow-up. Ketan ji, can you help us on the quarter-on-quarter volume growth, because I think prices have softened. So the stable revenue is not the right picture, right? That's number one. Number two, the customer we spoke about, where there is a headwind, is it completely 0 or there is more impact which may likely come in the next quarter?
Can you come on the second part again? I missed out.
Second part is on the one customer...
Sanjesh, you have to be a little louder, please.
Am I good now?
Now it's better.
Okay. Just on the one customer where we spoke about a headwind in terms of the run rate, which has hurt the stand-alone business. Is that customer entirely 0 or there is some more revenues to be knocked off from the base which need to be recouped with the new customer? How should we see that?
No, so run rate with that customer now is completely 0.
Okay, it's 0. So that headwind is no more going into the next quarter, right?
No, no.
Okay. And in terms of volume growth in the stand-alone?
I think some amount of volume growth has been there. HPPC, as I said, the volume has been -- we've been able to cover up most of the volume which we lost out because of this customer. But otherwise, we have not seen any volume drop. Textiles is largely quarter-on-quarter I think is mostly impacted due to softening of prices because RM prices has kept coming down.
Got it. Got it. Second, on the subsidiary part of the business, where we have declined 18% from a seasonally weak quarter, which was in Q2. In general, agrochemical per se is doing fantastic if you look at agrochemical companies number. There, at least, it doesn't show like there is a headwind from the industry perspective. Can you help us understand why Rossari has had a very muted quarter this quarter?
Sanjesh, namaste, this is Chari. Historically, agro season is strong in the first 2 quarters for last 30 years for Unitop. So the third quarter is always a little weak -- third and fourth quarters are weak for Unitop. If you see quarter-on-quarter year-on-year...
But on a Y-o-Y basis...
If you see quarter 3 of last year, Unitop has done very well in spite of RM prices falling and FG prices falling.
No. So basically, my question was that even on a Y-o-Y basis, it's down 5%, while if you look at the industry growth, it's...
Yes, because the raw material prices have fallen substantially, I think more than 15% finished goods prices have fallen. So we've done well comparatively.
Volume growth cap? If you can help us on that, in the subsidiary business?
Subsidiary business, quarter-on-quarter, Sanjesh, as Chari sir said, Unitop volumes and Tristar volumes have been slightly impacted, one, because Unitop with the agro season loses revenue shares generally in the first half. We expect that to now pick up from mid-Feb onwards. In Tristar, we've seen little headwinds in our exports to Europe and probably also to Russia. And there was a slowdown around November and December in the these exports. Late December, the exports have picked up again. And I think in this quarter, we should see Tristar coming back to its quarterly run rate. So these 2 have impacted our overall subsidiary volumes.
Got it, got it. A follow-up on the guidance. We guided that in FY '23, we will achieve INR 20 billion of revenue and the INR 2.5 billion of EBITDA. In current context, it looks like slightly challenging. Are we updating on the guidance? And how should one look at FY '24 in that context?
Yes. So the way the second half has panned out, I don't think we are going to hit that number of INR 2,000 crores. Going by the current run rate, I think we should be closer to about INR 1,650 crores, INR 1,700 crores, around that number. So around the INR 1,700 crores top line we should be closing this year.
And EBITDA, sir?
EBITDA. We should be at about INR 20 crores to INR 30 crores kind of an EBITDA we should be able to do.
And anything you want to talk about FY '24 now that the base is also favorable? Is it fair to assume that next year we should be doing upwards of 20% in terms of revenue and EBITDA?
Yes. So we are looking at FY '24 to at least give us a 15% to 20% type of a growth on the top line and with better margin growth. That's how we're looking at it now.
Now that the raw material prices have corrected, base effect is not there, we should be fastly moving towards the 17%, 18% EBITDA margin, which we were doing earlier, in the next 1, 2 years. That is fairly possible right now?
Yes, I cannot say that for the next year. But yes, we are moving towards that. If you see our numbers, they are slowly improving. So over the next 2 years, we should get back to our 16%, 17% kind of levels. We should be there.
[Operator Instructions] We have a question from the line of Rohit Nagraj from Centrum Broking.
Sir, first question is again on the subsidiaries front. So is there any element of inventory destocking at customers, and that has impacted our volumes and probably this phenomenon can continue for a quarter or couple of quarters and which may have further impact on the volumes?
Yes. So, I think it is visible in Tristar, where we saw some slowdown on the export side in this quarter. So that what we understand was a phenomenon of destocking, which is happening in the customer. But we expect that to get normalized at least by mid of this quarter. So we should be doing a little better in Tristar in Q4.
And for Unitop, any comments?
Unitop, we are not seeing anything going on. In fact, our nonagro business in Unitop has done pretty well. So we are quite happy with that. We see a good growth in the nonagro part of the business.
Right. Got it. Sir, second question is on the Textile Specialty. So in the last 3, 4 quarters, we have seen that there have been multiple headwinds because of which this particular segment has not done well. Any green shoots that we are seeing from the demand perspective, or the segment now picking up and probably, in a quarter or couple of quarters things will start looking substantially better?
Namaste, Rohit ji, I'm Chari here. Textile industry, we are seeing still some slowdown in this quarter. And indications are that from May, June onwards, again, demand should pick up very well. This year, the domestic demand was good, but the export demand was muted for all good exporters, which you can see in the results of the textile companies also. We feel -- we have seen exports picking up for Rossari for the textiles and we think that next financial year should do better than this year.
[Operator Instructions] As there are no more questions, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you. I'm sorry, there is one question. We have a question from Palak Shah from Infina Finance.
Sir, just incrementally, we've been discussing for the last 2 quarters that we are now focusing more on the higher-margin business. In that context, when you look at a new order or new chemistry, what's the benchmark margins that you actually focus on?
So good afternoon Mr. Palak. I'm Edward here. So all our new projects are always targeted to 20% EBITDA. Now, of course, this depends on the market and the competition. But most of the projects that we've started, they would be at least 30% plus gross margins and about 18% to 20% EBITDA. That is how we look at our new projects. However, having said that, we have a few pieces up our sleeve like a green surfactant or the silicone-based wetting agents that we've developed recently, as well as some of the products in spin finish, and in-house production of esters, et cetera, where the margins will be higher. And very consciously, we have taken a decision to promote the Animal Health and Nutrition business, which we believe can grow much faster than the other segments. And historically, the gross margins in this business is upwards of 50%. So we are looking at promoting Animal Health and Nutrition products very aggressively in the coming quarters and focusing on a few products which are coming up newly.
Got it. And just, sir, secondly, given that you are saying, volumes have relatively been stable, but what you have lost is purely because of pricing. So what would be our current capacity utilization across plants or across segments? And would you be requiring to put up more capacity over the next 2 to 3 years, depending on your projection of the revenue growth and volume growth?
So currently, our capacity utilization this year has been around average of about 55-odd percent. So we have enough headroom now in our facilities, both in Rossari as well as seen in our 2 subsidiaries. And I think immediately, over the next couple of years, we do not plan to put in any large CapEx for any kind of an expansion. We have enough room within our current infrastructure almost to double up the turnover. So currently, no plans of any further expansions.
[Operator Instructions] We have a question from the line of Mahesh Vyas from UTI Mutual Fund.
Sir, where do you think -- how you think on your AHN business and HPPC business over the 3 years down the line? And my second question is on, do you see any major challenge in your Textiles business?
So we are expecting the HPPC business to double in 3 years, 3 to 4 years, and AHN to definitely double in 3 years or more. In 2 years, Ketan sir is saying, [Foreign Language] AHN business. Textiles business, we are expecting to double in 4 to 5 years. So what is our plan until now, we are on track, except for the Ukraine war, we had something down the subsidiaries. But I think in 3 to 4 years, we should double sales what we have now.
Sure, sir. And what is the capacity utilization across the level of all 3 segments?
At as I said, we are at about 55% kind of capacity utilization.
[Operator Instructions] We have a question from the line of Harsh Shah from Nuvama Wealth Research.
Sir, my question is on HPPC segment. So in investor presentation, it was mentioned that the degrowth in HPPC was majorly attributable to the degrowth in the subsidiaries. So sir, can you quantify how much was degrowth on stand-alone basis and how much was on subsidiary level?
Sorry, what was your last question? How much was...
So can you quantify how much degrowth was attributable to subsidiary and how much degrowth was attributable on stand-alone level?
So majorly, the degrowth that has happened is on the subsidiary front. So there is what 9% kind of degrowth that we've seen in this quarter over Q2. Majorly, it's because of the lower demand in the agro part and lower offtake from the exports of Tristar. So these 2 have been the major causes for this drop.
[Operator Instructions] We have a question from the line of Rohit Nagraj from Centrum Broking.
Sir, in terms of integration, the integration of the 2 subsidiaries, is it completely done now? And are we able to accrue any benefits from the same?
So I think I touched upon this in my opening remarks. If you see the performance of these 2 subsidiaries, we have done exceptionally well on a year-on-year YTD basis. And I think much of this could happen because of Rossari coming into the picture and a lot of the synergistic plans which we had put in are slowly visible. So be it in our operations, production activities, R&D, even on the business development and the sales front, I think the teams are working very cohesively and building the Rossari brand across all the 3 companies.
I think more of this [indiscernible] quarter on quarter we're seeing an improvement on this. And I think going forward, you will see these assets playing out further in the next few quarters and few years. So I think most of it, in fact, is a developmental activity and we'll keep seeing this improvement going forward.
For example, Rossari in certain product ranges like the spin finish. So the synergy happened between Unitop and Rossari. Then for the regenerated cellulose additive, again, Unitop and Rossari. If you look at silicone wetter, so the silicone wetter was a combination between all the 3 companies, Tristar, Unitop and Rossari. So you see, for many product ranges, the synergy has played out very well. And apart from that, the nonagro business has been really stimulated by the presence of Rossari and their network in both India as well as in the export markets. So from the product synergy part of it, we've done extremely well. And of course, HR and finance and other departments, there was complete integration in the first 6 to 8 months itself.
Right, sir. Sir, just one bookkeeping question. In terms of maintenance CapEx on a consolidated basis, what would be the number for FY '23 and FY '24? And during 9 months, what would be the exports percentage?
9 months export?
Yes, exports as a percentage of sales on a consolidated basis.
On consolidated basis, our exports were about 25, 26 -- 25% in 9 months.
24%.
24%, yes. And our CapEx spend, I think during this would be around...
Consolidated would be INR 5 crores...
About INR 5 crores to INR 10 crores, not much.
And next year also, similar run rate would be there, because capacities are still...
[indiscernible].
We may do some small projects here and there. So overall, we don't expect to spend more than INR 30 crores, INR 40 crores kind of number.
[Operator Instructions] We have a question from the line of Aman Shah from Jeetay Investments.
Sir, my question is on volume growth. I just missed, what was the volume growth on a year-on-year basis in subsidiary and stand-alone in this quarter?
So I think we've already talked about this earlier. The fall in revenue that we have seen in consolidated, most of it is due to the fall in subsidiary volumes. So that 9%-odd fall in the consolidated revenue, most of it is attributable to the volume degrowth.
Okay. But because the prices have dropped, so should we -- like the volume degrowth also is similar to value degrowth on an overall basis?
Yes. So some part of the raw material price fall we are seeing, that's more visible in the stand-alone revenue, where more than the volume, the fall slightly has happened because of the price corrections that we have done. But in the subsidiaries, that's not the case.
Okay, okay. Sir, for next year, we are giving like 16%, 20% should be the revenue growth, with better margins. So how should we look at the margin level? Like this year, we are giving a guidance of 13% that we will close at for full year EBITDA, considering INR 220 crores is what you said. So should we -- and 16%, 17% is what we think will happen over a 2-year period as we embark on the high-profitability products. For next year, should we work with the 14%, 15% margin? Would you think that's a fair assessment?
Yes, as an assessment, you can do that. But as I said, we will be moving towards like 15%. I don't want to give you a number as such. But movement will be from 13% to 17% over the next 2 years.
Okay, okay. Sir, in subsidiaries part, we have total breakup on the consolidated sales between HPPC, Textile and AHN business. In subsidiaries, most of it is the part of HPPC?
Yes, yes.
Okay, okay. Sir, my just first question is, on competition, we always say that we don't compete directly with our vendors, we actually take product from our vendor and improve on their products to make it customized for our customers. Who exactly is our class of competitors? That I want to understand. Is it like the customer itself does all these things at its own end that we actually give that service to the customer, because if we are not competing with our vendors, and I don't know much of who can be our direct competitor, except on the Textile part, if you can help me understand who are our class of competitors? Whether the work that the client itself is doing that we are actually helping him do that work?
Aman ji, namaste, I'm Chari here. So in terms of competition, if you see Animal Health and Nutrition, we have Kemin, Cargill, Novus, Alltech, Jubilant, Zydus/Cadila, and Zoetis, these are the kind of competitors we face in Animal Health and Nutrition. In the HPPC segment, we always have given, there are Dow, BASF, Croda, Solvay, these are the kind of competitors the ones we face. And in Textiles, we have, again, multinationals like Archroma, Huntsman, Croda, CHT, and Pulcra. Basically, we go for premium niche products, and we try to give value-added solutions where we try to reduce either the process cost or the process time or make their process more sustainable in terms of reducing TDS or VOD or COD. All in all, making the customers more sustainable is a focus for us, either in terms of green chemistry or in terms of cost.
Okay, okay. And basically, also, if I can understand, I think agility and giving the product submission at a very fast pace on a sustainable basis is also one of our advantages. That would be right way to put, against all these competitors?
Yes, that is true. Because that is the backbone, formulation, and giving customer customized solutions with our center of excellence at IIT Powai. That is one of the key differentiators that Rossari has with its competition. And the speed with which and the flexibility with which our teams are tuned to work, that also differentiates Rossari. So if you ask somebody in the market, then you will notice that Rossari can really deliver solutions and products to the market much faster than most of our competitors.
[Operator Instructions] We have a question from the line of Ashit Kothi, an individual investor.
Just a follow-up to the earlier question on competition. If we have to you say that top 2 competitors in each segment, top 2 competitors to the company.
What we believe as -- one of the speakers or the ones who ask questions that we don't compete. But companies supplying similar kind of products, the top ones, which I mentioned. So like in terms of acidic agents or surfactants, companies like BASF, Solvay, Croda, Dow, these are some very, very good ones who we consider as competitors. People who copy us, we don't consider them as our competitors. So Textiles, again, Archroma, Huntsman, Croda, and BASF are companies we admire. In terms of Animal Health and Nutrition, Kemin, Alltech, Novus, these are 3 companies we admire.
And on what criteria we beat them?
What criteria? What did you say, sir?
In which criteria we beat them?
We focus on giving value-added formulations, which can reduce the process time or process cost or make them more sustainable. For example, if there's a product used in detergents. Can we reduce the cost of the detergent or give better cleaning property, better shine to the cloth, or make it more greener, more sustainable detergent. That would be the way we work in our R&D lab at IIT Powai. And that is what has helped us reached this stage in our company's growth cycle.
And we are 0 effluents in all our plants?
No, we have -- as a company, our focus is always on products which produce 0 effluents, but we have to wash, because as a specialty chemical company, we have more than 5,000 products on our range. So when we change over from one product to another, definitely, there is washing. And the washing has to be treated. So we have permissions at Dahej for the requisite treatments.
But the discharge, we don't discharge at all?
At Dahej only we have discharge permission.
So it means that our water consumption is -- more product change, our water consumption would be always higher. And we cannot be 0% in terms of water consumption. That is, all, whatever we consume, we recycle, we reuse, so that we are net zero on water consumption?
So we are a very green company, as we said, and majority of the products do not generate any effluent. And if you see our chemistries, we are into enzymes, silicone, acrylic and surfactant. So these 4 chemistries are very, very good and green chemistries in terms of comparison. We don't do any hazardous processes like chlorination, nitration, halogenation, or amination in a big way. So our processes are more epoxidation, carboxylation, polymerization and distillation. And effluent is not generated mostly in this.
So we can say our products are greener products and we can get all carbon credits in this case?
Yes, yes. So we do that. We have a calculation for earning carbon credits.
And how much of earning contribution and, over a period of next 5 years, carbon credit can become a part of our profitability?
No, I don't think that's anything major.
It's not major?
No, it's not major.
Thank you. As there are no more questions, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, everyone, for your patient hearing. I hope we have been able to answer all your questions satisfactorily. Should you need any further clarifications or would like to know more about the company, please feel free to contact our team or CDR India. Thank you once again for taking the time to join us on this call, and have a nice day.
Thank you. On behalf of Rossari Biotech Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.