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Quess Corp Ltd
Earnings Call Analysis
Q1-2025 Analysis
Quess Corp Ltd
In the first quarter of fiscal year 2025, Quess Corp achieved a record revenue of INR 5,003 crores, marking a significant growth of 9% year-on-year and a 2% increase quarter-on-quarter. When accounting for the prior year's divestment of Qdigi, the normalized revenue growth stands at 11% year-on-year and 4% quarter-on-quarter. This highlights Quess’s resilience in a traditionally weaker season.
The company recorded an EBITDA of INR 184 crores, reflecting a robust year-on-year growth of 19%, although it experienced a sequential decline of 6%. The operating margins improved slightly to 3.7%, up by 33 basis points year-on-year, driven by enhanced contributions from more profitable segments such as Global Technology Solutions (GTS) and Operating Asset Management (OAM). However, sequentially, they declined by 30 basis points due to seasonal effects and wage increases.
Profit after tax surged 132% year-on-year and 14% quarter-on-quarter, reaching INR 112 crores. This increase is attributed to several factors, including higher other income, reduced interest costs, and a one-time gain from the divestment of their labor law compliance subsidiary. Earnings Per Share (EPS) grew to INR 6.9, up 116% year-on-year.
Quess’s workforce management segment achieved revenues of INR 3,622 crores, a 12% year-on-year growth. However, the EBITDA margin fell to 2.44%, primarily due to a higher proportion of general staffing over professional staffing, along with wage inflation pressures. The company remains hopeful about margin recovery in the upcoming quarters due to increasing focus on IT staffing and value-added services.
The GTS platform reported a revenue of INR 610 crores, an 8% year-on-year increase. Despite a flat sequential performance, the segment maintains an EBITDA margin of 17.5%. The ongoing development of margin-accretive service lines is a key focus area to enhance profitability going forward.
Revenue from the Operating Asset Management segment reached INR 733 crores, showing a 6% increase year-on-year. The segment's margin improved slightly due to better contributions from telecom and infrastructure sectors. However, it experienced a sequential decline owing to seasonal variability in demand.
Quess is on track with its three-way demerger strategy, expected to finalize by Q1 of the next fiscal year. The demerger aims to simplify corporate structure and focus managerial efforts on individual businesses. This strategic move is anticipated to unlock shareholder value through enhanced management focus and tailored capital allocation strategies. With the government's commitment to job creation and skilling, opportunities for growth abound for Quess as it positions itself as India's largest domestic employer.
In line with its financial discipline, Quess repaid approximately INR 100 crores of debt during the quarter, reducing its gross debt to under INR 300 crores. Additionally, the net cash position improved by 11% sequentially, which bolsters financial stability.
Moving forward, Quess’s management expressed confidence in achieving margin improvements as seasonal effects subside with the onset of Q2. They anticipate further growth driven by increased staffing in IT sectors, expanded hiring capabilities, and a focused strategy to leverage government initiatives aimed at job creation. Overall, the company looks forward to a strong fiscal performance as it gears up for significant opportunities that lie ahead.
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Quess Corporate Limited Q1 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by IIFL Securities Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Balaji Subramanian from IIFL Securities Limited. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Thank you, Neha. Ladies and gentlemen, good morning, and thank you for joining us on the post results conference call for Quess Corp. It's my pleasure to introduce the senior management team of Quess, who are here with us today to discuss the results.
We have Mr. Guruprasad Srinivasan, ED and Group CEO; Mr. Kamal Pal Hoda, Group CFO; Mr. Kushal Maheshwari, Head, Investor Relations and Strategic Finance; Mr. Pinaki Kar, President, Global Technology Solutions; Mr. Anand Sundar Raj, President, OAM; and Mr. Sekhar Garisa, President, Product-led Businesses.
We will begin the call with opening remarks by the management team, and thereafter, we will open the call for a Q&A session. I would like to now hand over the call to Mr. Kushal Maheshwari to take the proceedings forward. Thank you, and over to you, Kushal.
Thank you, Balaji. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our Q1 FY 2025 earnings call. The information, data and outlook shared by the management during the call is forward-looking, and subject to prevailing business conditions and government policies. All forward-looking statements are subject to economic growth or other risks faced by the company. Please refer to Slide #2 of Investor Presentation for the safe harbor clause.
With that safe harbor clause, I will now hand over the call to our Group CEO, Mr. Guruprasad Srinivasan, for his opening remarks. Over to you, Guru.
Thank you, Kushal. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. We started fiscal 2025 a robust way and delivered a healthy performance during the quarter. Though Q1 historically has been seasonally the weakest quarter, [indiscernible] this quarter marked the first time we have achieved a revenue run rate of INR 5,000 crores and a resilient Q1 performance with a substantial headcount addition over 30,000-plus associates.
EBITDA grew over year-on-year basis by 19%, and saw a sequential dip of 6% over Q4, due to a seasonal slowdown in our higher-margin OAM and GTS businesses. In addition to business seasonality, the impact of which is also observed in Q1, we expect margins to improve as these businesses recover from Q2 onwards.
Key financial highlights for the quarter. We added about 30,000 associates and the headcount stands at 597,000 associates during the quarter. We recorded a consolidated revenue of INR 5,003 crores. We just crossed the INR 5,000-crore milestone with a growth of 9% on a year-on-year basis.
We delivered an EBITDA of INR 184 crores, a growth of 19% year-on-year. Year-on-year improvement in margins was led by reduction in Foundit [bonds] with the sales growth and optimized market spends. Improvement in OEM margins through higher contribution by telecom and infra business and profitability focus in other businesses.
We continue to implement cost reduction and productivity improvement initiatives to optimize our business operations further. In preparation for announced demerger of Quess, we are also setting up leadership and internal processes. In this regard, I'm pleased to welcome Gurmeet Chahal, who has joined us as CEO of First GTS platform and will eventually lead a digitized entity.
He's been early proponent of integrated BPO and tech offerings throughout his career. Under his guidance, the GTS platform will expand its global BBM and IT services footprint.
Now let me talk to specific updates by platform. Starting with workforce management. The platform headcount reached 485,000. This includes people who are also serving notice period, which is about 32,000 during the quarter. Adding a healthy 30,796 associates during the quarter. Addition in Q1 is more than what we added in last 2 quarters, that is combined of Q3 and Q4, we have added in Q1 in itself. Revenue growth for the period was about 12% year-on-year.
EBITDA margins declined to 2.4% as the business mix tilted towards robust addition from general staffing business against modest growth coming out of IT staffing and overseas staffing. The platform added 91 new contracts during the quarter, with an annual contract value of INR 510 crores.
And let me move on to specifics to the business, moving on to general staffing. The business added 29,452 associates by [indiscernible] during the quarter, led by logistics consumer, retail and telecom and manufacturing. The business started the year on a very strong note by adding 82 new logos in Q1 [indiscernible].
Over the last years, manufacturing sector has been robust hiring -- robust in hiring. And most of our efforts have collectively capitalized the momentum in this space. However, hiring in IT sector was slowed down during the quarter, with only 4,000 net adds as a free flow of talent across was disrupted due to general elections.
With strong openminded and internal capability, this sector will be a key focus driver as we move forward. Quess has been the front runner in enhancing its sourcing through job spots. We did announce this last quarter, and there's a process, where digitally we enable people located within the proximity of distance to the key manufacturing clusters designed to streamline recruitment for prospective job seekers.
We recently announced our third job spot in Jharkhand,after Hosur in Tamil Nadu and Narasipura in Bangaluru, and we are witnessing good traction. We're now looking to expand into the supplier states like UP, Bihar, Orissa, Jharkhand in the coming quarters.
We have invested in leadership to strengthen our vertical strategy approach, allowing us to focus more on customer acquisition, retention, fulfillment, specific to the segment. Our widespread geography reach is a testament to our sourcing and deployment capabilities. More than 70% of our gross additions, during the quarter work from Tier 2 and Tier 3 are beyond Tier 2 regions.
Engagement through our digital offering continues as we launched Dash [plus]. We provide -- which provides learning and development, skilling and assessment and financial inclusion products at a click of a button to our associates.
Coming specific to IT staffing business. We experienced a positive trend in the headcount after a few quarters of decline. We added over 300 associates. We anticipate to continue this growth trajectory as we have strengthened our GCC capabilities. The IT industry is expected to recover in second half, so we have already seen some green shoots in Q1. So we expect this to recover a bit in second half.
GCC witnessed strong hiring price, and we are now -- have 69% of our revenue from GCC. Our focused strategy to leverage GCC opportunities has resulted in healthy margins for IT staffing, and have built a path towards capturing a larger market share in GCC space. And our open mandate levels are at about 1,500, compared to Q4, we have grown up by 36%.
Moving on to Global Technology Solutions platform. GTS registered a revenue growth of 1% quarter-on-quarter on a seasonally larger Q4 pace in connected outside business. The quarter -- the quarter's EBITDA margin is 17.5%, well in line with sustainable range between 17% to 18% band. The highlights specific to the platform, moving on to the CLM business.
This business continues to witness healthy growth with 20% year-on-year, and 7% sequential growth led by domestic and international mix. Also, CXM vertical delivered a strong top line growth and a higher international business salience.
The non-voice BPM business was a hit during the quarter. Collection business actively peaked in Q4, followed by a seasonal slowdown in Q1 FY '25. Likewise, the ASM vertical in Platform Services experienced a sequential decline, due to year-end onetime coaching activity in Q4.
Overall, ASM business remained strong with 4.1 million payslips processed during the quarter, which translates to 10% year-on-year growth. Overall, the platform closed the order book at almost INR 82 crore ACV, adding 42 new logos to the key drivers, where BFSI and retail segment continues to be the key driver.
Moving on to operating update management. Following year-long initiatives to enhance productivity and margin over past years, the OEM platform grew 9%, despite of seasonal food and beverage and telecom network maintenance businesses slow down.
The platform recorded a year-on-year margin improvement of 30 basis points, with increased contribution from telecom, infra, industrial, O&M businesses. However, there was a sequential dip in margin, owing to loss of business due to seasonality in foot and telecom business on back of 5G deployment and slowdown in that space.
I'd like to give you some highlights on OEM business. [indiscernible] added 23 new logos with an ACV of INR 50 crore, predominantly coming from logistics, e-commerce and industrial -- are the key drivers, where the additions came from. While security services realization were nearly flattish, the business registered appreciable margin expansion, as we rationalize a few low-margin contracts in this quarter.
Telecom Infra registered a marginal growth sequentially, as 5G deployment was seasonally slower in Q1. We have invested in sales and leadership to enable us to have a vertical, a bit sharper focus on profitability as we move forward.
Moving on to product-led business. The revenue and EBITDA in this segment excludes our break-fix business, Qdigi, which we divested in Q4. Foundit saw a growth of 30% year-on-year and revenue growth of 7% year-on-year. Sales growth of 30% year-on-year and revenue growth of 7% year-on-year. Foundit has significantly reduced its cash flow.
Our operational metrics are up 12% sequentially, on recruiter-based consumption, which gives us confidence as job postings are up by 54% quarter-on-quarter. Candidate profile updates are up by 86% quarter-on-quarter, and CSAT remains healthy at 91%. We are confident of healthy 25%-plus top line growth with a reduced cash burn for the year.
Moving on to authorization updates, I'm pleased to share that our workplace has been recognized as a great place to work for the fifth consecutive year, with a rank of 32nd place. Our highest ever, this is.
As a people-first organization, we -- I mean, this achievement reflects our collective dedication to foster a culture of respect, growth and innovation. Our demerger plan is on track. We expect approval by stock exchange after which NCLT proceeding will commence. Internally, we're concurrently enhancing our leadership refining process, and bolstering operational capabilities to empower each city to establish a leadership position in their respective sectors, after the demerge.
Before concluding, I would like to highlight a few factors that will be instrumental in driving growth at Quess over next few quarters. The government's focus on jobs and employment and financial assistance to companies adding jobs will give us, India's largest domestic employer, many opportunities for growth.
The private sector investment cycle should kick in, with employment and job creation being on everybody's mind, creating more job opportunities for business services provider like us. The strengthening of leadership, particularly in GTS segment, is expected to give our BPM business more tailwind, as it intensifies its go-to-market approach.
The overall organization strengthening and optimizing that Quess has undertaken in last few months is showing results, and we expect this to continue and leading up to the demerger as we get closer there.
So coming up on a robust start to the year, we are looking forward to be the fiscal performance this year before the demerger, which would ever be the best year for us before we get into the demerger -- is being implemented.
So with this, I'll now hand over to Kamal for financial updates. Over to you, Kamal.
Thank you, Guru. I'll first take you through financial numbers before getting into segmental performance and other corporate updates.
We delivered record revenue of INR 5,003 crores during the period, with a growth of 9% year-on-year and 2% quarter-on-quarter. If we normalize the divestment of Qdigi done in Q4 of last year, revenue growth would be at 11% year-on-year and 4% quarter-on-quarter. EBITDA stands at INR 184 crores, a growth of 19% year-on-year, and a decline of 6% quarter-on-quarter.
Our operating margins are at 3.7%, which is 33 basis points higher on a year-on-year basis, driven by high contributions from margin-accretive businesses in GTS and OEM platforms, and reduction in [burn] and Foundit business. On a sequential basis, there is a 30 basis points decline, due to seasonality in a few of our businesses, like food and beverages and telecom services, and also annual wage increase for our core employees.
Profit after tax increased by 132% year-on-year and 14% quarter-on-quarter, to INR 112 crores. Our PAT growth is significantly higher than EBITDA growth, because of higher other income, lower interest costs and also includes a onetime exceptional gain of INR 17 crores from divestment of our labor law compliance, by our subsidiary, Allsec Technologies.
EPS for the quarter is INR 6.9 per share, a 116% year-on-year growth and a 10% quarter-on-quarter growth, in line with the PAT growth. Our commitment to cash management and debt repayments continued in the quarter, as we repaid close to INR 100 crores of debt, which has brought down our gross debt position under INR 300 crores. Our net cash position has also improved by 11% sequentially.
Moving on to platform-wise updates. Starting with workforce management, we delivered a top line of INR 3,622 crores, which is up 12% year-on-year and 4% quarter-on-quarter, led by headcount net growth in general staffing business, and IT staffing supported by GCC hiring. EBITDA is at INR 89 crores, grew 6% year-on-year, but declined 3% sequentially. EBITDA margin has seen a 18 basis points drop sequentially to 2.44%, due to wage inflation and higher business mix of general staffing vis-a-vis professional staffing.
With IT staffing gaining momentum and focus on value-added services in general staffing, we expect margin improvement in subsequent quarters.
Moving on to Global Technology Solutions platform. The platform clocked a revenue of INR 610 crores, an increase of 8% year-on-year and 1% quarter-on-quarter. Revenue was nearly flat sequentially, due to higher wage cost by year-end activities in Q4. EBITDA is at INR 107 crores, a growth of 7% year-on-year and a decrease of 6% quarter-on-quarter.
Consequently, EBITDA margins were at 17.5%. Platform and CLM business delivered good performance, and our focus remains on developing margin-accretive service lines for the platform.
Moving on to operating asset management platform. The platform delivered a revenue of INR 733 crores, a growth of 6% year-on-year and a 3% quarter-on-quarter. Growth was led by telecom, infra and industrials on a year-on-year basis, while IFM and industrials were key drivers, sequentially.
Segment EBITDA is at INR 35 crores with a growth of 14% year-on-year and a sequential decline of 9%. EBITDA margin at 4.8% is an increase of 33 basis points on a year-on-year basis, driven by higher contributions from telecom infra business and rationalization of low-margin accounts in the security business.
However, margins declined sequentially by 64 basis points, owing to seasonality in high-margin businesses like food and beverages and telecom and infra.
In the product mix business, adjusted for our divestment in Qdigi, revenue for the quarter was INR 39 crore, a growth of 6% year-on-year. Foundit sales growth is robust at 30% year-on-year. EBITDA was at negative INR 8 crores, while on a year-on-year basis, there is a steep improvement in cash flow levels, owing to strong sales growth and optimized marketing spend in Foundit. There's an increased burn quarter-on-quarter mainly due to higher marketing spend.
Moving on to corporate updates. I'll start off with tax-related matters. As earlier notified on the stock exchange, we received an income tax refund of INR 107 crores for FY '18-'19. Additionally, DRT proceedings for FY '19-'20 have also been completed. In line, with the previous orders of FY '17-'18 and FY '18-'19, reductions under the principal matters, that is Section 80JJAA and goodwill has been disallowed.
We believe that the tax treatments availed by the company are valid, and we intend to contest this position and the interpretative stance on these sections on merits. On updates regarding the demerger, we are progressing on track towards the proposed 3-way demerger of Quess Corp.
We are enhancing our leadership and boosting operational capabilities to empower each entity, to establish a leadership position in their respective sectors after the demerger. And post approval by the stock exchange, we shall be filing the application with NCLT.
The union budget recommendations presented a forward-looking approach towards generating formal employment with key emphasis on social security and skilling. These initiatives, coupled with an increased budgetary allocation towards PLI, Mudhra schemes for MSMEs and CapEx, capital expenditures, will create many employment opportunities in the formal sector.
As one of the leading private sector employers, we are optimistic about the budget initiatives to accelerating India's former job creation, enhancing employability through skill development and education.
With this, I conclude our financial results and pass it back to the moderator for taking your questions. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Deep Shah from B&K Securities.
Sir, the first question is around the higher share of ITES that you reported in the domestic IT staffing segment in your presentation. Is it possible to give the headcount here? This is to actually better understand, whether there is a net headcount improvement, IT has bottomed out? Or is it just a mix change?
Sure. So, a, we have seen a net headcount addition growth in Q1 in IT, specifically in IT staffing in India. However, this business, we would love to tell this more on margin and the kind of contribution that this can bring in [indiscernible], rather than the headcount.
So this business contributes almost close to about 9.5%, 10% EBITDA to our total workforce addition. But however, good to see that mandate level have gone up. Compared to Q4, we were about 1,100, now we are about 1,500 so almost 36%-plus in terms of the mandate recovery.
We, again, cater to largely 70% of our deployment goes to GCCs and then, of course, across all sectors and GCCs and balance towards other IT services and other IT companies. So that's the breakdown. [indiscernible].
Do you have any follow-up question?
Are you still online?
Am I audible?
Yes, we can hear you now.
Sorry, there's some network interruption. So I'm saying just to reconfirm the numbers you quoted are for specialized staffing, right? The 1,100 versus 1,500?
Professional -- in IT staffing, India.
Perfect. Sir, second, so you -- I heard Kamal say that how Foundit -- I mean, PLB business -- there was increased marketing there, and therefore, the sequential increase in losses, but fair to say for the full year, we should breakeven in this business, especially with the sale of Qdigi now behind us?
Certain indicators that sets us how we are progressing in that -- if you look at our job postings are up by 76% year-on-year. And the profile update has moved from 3.8 million to about 13.4 million, which is 250% up. So, when you have seen both demand and supply sides slowly getting active onto the platform, that gives us the confidence as to -- ultimately, it has to convert into revenue and we are on the plan. So I'll get Sekhar to add further more to this.
Yes, Guru mentioned specifically to your question, Deep, that the Q1 numbers are in line with the annual operating plan that we have. Whole of last year, we had a negative INR 55 crore EBITDA. And this year, the plan formally is to turn breakeven on a full year basis.
Right, sir. Very useful. So one last question, if I may. So, I'm sure that the budget proposals are very encouraging and we'll obviously be a net beneficiary. Sir, any early estimates or early comments on how do you foresee the benefits of this [Technical Difficulty] given the competitive scenario, would it be fair to assume that most of the benefits will be demanded back by our customer? Whatever your early thoughts are? I understand the fine print may not be out, but you are closer to the labor ministry, than we are. So your early thoughts?
Absolutely, Deep. We are also driving this centrally across various others, putting a work stream around it. So first of all, it's great to see so much of emphasis coming on to -- specifically to workforce skilling and intensifying formal employment. So I think there's a big shift towards thinking in itself, right?
So this further has various streams. So the budget talks about certain -- I mean, as part of the package, the scheme A, scheme B and scheme C impacting an individual pressure who is coming on to the job, to employers who are close to encourage pressures, coming into the system and creating those employment.
Number three, specific to manufacturing and internship. Fourth one, female workforce participation, a special attention focus towards the dormitories and better living for people working in the manufacturing and condition -- better stay conditions, et cetera.
I think all these steps, India is going to face definitely still shortage, so reinforcing on skilling. And as you rightly said, we are very closer to this particular space and -- I mean each one, definitely, over a period of time is expected to add about INR 4 crore job and we, as Quess, we definitely stand to gain some portion of this, definitely.
If you look at two indicators again, because the consumption in terms of FMCG, the rural consumption has gone up. It has out-beaten the consumption for urban -- and which also sets that from our trajectory, if you look at our demand from Tier 2, Tier 3 are also increasing slowly.
The CapEx investment, which is going to get into various segments, will actually encourage employment, as well as our integrated facility management business is to do more, and customer life cycle management to kick in. So we are quite happy to see these announcements, and we are also dissecting this to see how do we drive this across various streams, and get closer to this in terms of working with the government, in terms of helping -- I mean, being part of the implementation team as well.
So Kamal, do you want to add anything?
No, I think fairly covered, Guru. Deep, yes, you are right, we also await the financial guidelines and the rules of various schemes and the implementation. But as Guru said, being one of the largest employer in the country, we believe that we can partner with some of these schemes and the government for the formal job creation, and we are looking forward to it during this financial year.
If I could just add one follow-up. So given that the high watermark of salary of INR 1 lakh is capped, would it be fair to conclude that even our GTS headcount -- we could get benefit there also? Because I guess, there, the competition to have headcount and therefore, pass on benefits would be materially over, or that assessment is erroneous?
So you're right, since the wage thresholds this time are higher and it is capped at INR 1 lakh, the effect of this towards all the verticals of Quess should be visible. But like I said, we'll have to wait for the financial rules and the guidelines to come, and then, as to what will be the financial impact of this for the company.
The next question is from the line of Balaji Subramanian from IIFL Securities Limited.
Congrats on a good quarter. So I have two questions. So one is on the workforce management platform margins. I do know that you have reiterated in the past that the absolute EBITDA the number which one should focus on, but nonetheless, I can see that after remaining steady at 2.6% for the preceding 4 quarters, it has a bit to 2.4% in this quarter.
So is it because of the seasonality you mentioned? And should we expect this to go back to the 2.6% level as we move into subsequent quarters? The second question would be on the associate to crew ratio, that we have reported for the OAM platform, I can see that, there has been slightly trending down. If you see 107 about a year back and now it is at 98. So any comments there? And what are you doing to improve that, that would be helpful?
Sure. Balaji, with regard to workforce management, a couple of pointers there. One is, of course, we -- I mean, as you know, our strength in terms of sourcing and enhancing the sourcing capability has helped us to accelerate our net hiring that we do, through sourcing channel.
And if you look at, we have been investing in that space, and this is running up to the season between Q1, Q2 and Q3. We will continue to invest on to the sourcing panel [indiscernible]. So from that standpoint, it's a by plan and by design, those investments are being made.
Second, specifically for manufacturing job spots, which I did call during my speech, we are seeing good benefit -- good early wins coming in from these job spots. We are closer to the customer workplace. These are kind of centers, which are digitally enabled for somebody to walk in, and get job in 30 minutes.
So we have already gone live with almost about four job spots now, and we have a few more stated. So that's the other investments that we are doing, specific to general staffing. Then, of course, wage inflation comes in Q1, which is a normal phenomenon.
So as we move forward, we will definitely recover some basis points, about 20 basis points back in margins because, a, IT staffing is opening up, and we are seeing green shoots as the mandates have gone up. As we enter Q2, Q3, we will definitely see an uptick coming from there.
And of course, international geographies are muted a bit. Singapore, which is largest for us in terms of IT staffing, it is almost flat, because they are running up to the elections and the number of people who could be experts, who could be got into, there is a restriction in [indiscernible] achievements, so how many we can get in, and all of that.
So by Q4, they should open up. So I mean if I were to look at where we are, there is definitely -- I think we have subsumed the cost in Q1. As we move forward, there could be some basis points that will help us too, as we move forward.
With regard to, specifically on OAM [indiscernible] associate ratio. See, it's a range that we have been hovering. I mean we should not look at as a pointed number. Anywhere between 98 to 110 is a great number to be in. That also shows the kind of productivity and efficiency that we are bringing in.
And we are in that range for almost about more than a year now. And as we invest back into vertical strengthening, as we invest back into strengthening our vertical approach, and investment in sales, if you look at OAM as a platform, we have been calling out that the only focus that this platform needs is acceleration in sales.
And we have added the capacity across country in terms of strengthening our sales team, which is also reflected in their -- I mean the ACV that we have got in OAM. We have signed about 27 contracts worth INR 52 crores in Q1 in itself. So, I think it's not -- I mean to us, I think we are not really worried about it. I think it's a good investment that we have made. It will be in a range between -- anywhere between 95 to 105, so that should be the range.
The next question is from the line of Chintan from Girik Capital.
Am I audible?
No Chintan, you will have to be a little louder.
Congrats on a good set. Just coming to WFM first. On the margin [indiscernible], we had last quarter guided to drive the margins upwards, as you say, 2.8 -- 20 basis point improvement we were targeting.
Now obviously, it's understandable that this quarter is seasonally weak, and a lot of schemes towards general staffing and all, led to some slight dip in margins. But do you foresee that on an average or at the exit, we will be -- start to hit improvement in margins going forward?
So Chintan, as we keep guiding the best way to assess general staffing is to see how much gross margin to EBITDA conversion is happening. That's how we look at it internally. So we continue to still be around 67% in terms of gross margin to EBITDA.
Because what happens in general staffing is the wage inflation -- the revenue growth has a wage of almost about 70% coming in from wage increase, as well as the sales mix is about 30%. So that is something that you need to look at.
So, I mean, if I were to look at overall [indiscernible] as a platform, two key events. One is IT staffing, as I said, opening up a step into the further quarters, will help us to expand margin a bit. And the international staffing, as the borders open up, will help us to margin a few basis points.
With regard to general staffing, I think we are doing well in terms of our net adds. Q1 in April, we have added -- at a platform level, we have -- I mean general staffing about 29,000 headcount that we have added. We can measure them, purely by net adds that they do, and there are two types of contracts that we signed, flat fee and a percentage fee, so -- and collect and pay and upfront, our collect and pay still is very pretty healthy, almost about 80% of our contracts are, we collect -- is collect and pay, and 20% is towards upfront.
So the other indicators are perfect, but what happens in Q1 is when there is wage hike, there would be percentage. And you will have a similar kind of reflection coming in Q3 also, when there is high incentives that gets paid on a flat fee basis, it will have an impact on the margin. So, the best way to look at is gross margin to EBITDA conversion, and that's pretty strong and healthy.
Okay. And on the working capital, when we say, 80% of the business is collect and pay, and ideally, given the size of the business, we should operate at a negative carry or negative working capital kind of situation. But, if I say the DSO days for general staffing, or the working capital days for general staffing, as you mentioned in the presentation, is 25 days, what does it entails to, it's largely the remaining part of business which requires larger capital for -- to operate?
Yes. So, see, the DSO days, as mentioned in the [Technical Difficulty].
Ladies and gentlemen, we have lost the management line connection. Please stay connected, while we reconnect them. Thank you.
Sorry, we got logged out of the call. Chintan, are you still there?
Yes, yes, I am here.
Yes. Kamal will respond to your queries.
So Chintan, the platform level DSO days, which I mentioned in the presentation, is 25 days, it's a combination of, obviously, the general staffing business and the other business, which is into IT staffing and international staffing, where the DSO days are higher.
Within 25 days also, there is a blend of the billed days and the unbilled days. And -- so in this line of business, we've got an unbilled days of also close to around 10 days. So -- and the bill days is around 15. So that's the breakup. With the -- and this will keep -- being in this range, if we keep moving, basis the business mix of general staffing vis-a-vis other businesses.
Okay. Okay. But I didn't understand, because if it's collect and pay is 80 in general staffing, and DSO days for general staffing is 25 days, so I'm just wondering the piece or the 20% piece carries a much larger collection days, that's what my point was. Anyways, I'll jump back in queue for any further queries.
The next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities.
So in terms of the employment and skilling initiatives that has been announced in the budget, obviously, it is positive for the staffing company. But if you can throw some more light in terms of the [indiscernible] initiatives in terms of Scheme A, Scheme B and Scheme C? Obviously, it is going to push volumes.
But, is it also going to help us in generating some more margins from here? Because, these also involves a lot of compliance related work, in which we have to collect for the government and pass on to the employer and the employee. So are we also planning to get some extra [indiscernible] these schemes for the government?
And also from an overall perspective around the skilling program and on the internship opportunity that will be announced. So, when we expect these to show up in the numbers? And obviously, the manufacturing [indiscernible] which is [Technical Difficulty], are we planning to do investments in this [indiscernible].
Amit, I mean, I'll -- I mean I'll answer this. I think a couple of -- there were some line disruption in between. So I think -- let me start with [indiscernible], stop me wherever you have any further questions.
So, first and foremost, as I said, this has been completely focusing on formal employment creation and specific segment in terms of manufacturing participation of [indiscernible] workforce and skilling. So, these are four areas, budget has been really focusing about.
If you further look at, it has multiple packages in this schemes, which has been created, something that is direct benefit transfer to employees. So, some portion of it goes into employees directly, where they are encouraged to come into the formal workforce and work for a fixed period of -- in the sense, work for at least a minimum 1 year in that space.
So -- see, it is not only hiring and deployment, it's about holding them and getting consistency in those workforce. So I think, that is where one of the scheme is focusing. The second scheme is focusing on employers' participation in terms of ensuring that, we hire a fresher, and we are capable of training them and deploying them into the job. I think, that's the second area where employers are encouraged. The third area is where, specifically, focusing for the Manufacturing segment, as to how freshers can be hired, [trying] and deployed. So, these are three different packages, over and above, to encourage women workforce participation for a better living conditions, the working women hostels in collaboration with industries are being set up, and it has some element of CSR fund and et cetera into it.
The last one is largely, again, focusing on the skill shortage and skilling gap. So first, being -- if you look at a bit of this transformation of a individual journey from informal to formal, they have to pass through somebody like us, and we are in midst of this ecosystem, getting people from on-job to non-[indiscernible] or moving them from informal to formal, when they [indiscernible].
And of course, once we handhold and jointly between us and the customers, then it becomes -- we become a kind of stepping stone for them to get -- build their career as they move forward. So while, there are -- these are the schemes that have been announced, there is definitely a lot of challenge on the ground in terms of implementation.
So we have to work as a stream very close to the respective ministries. We are also doing that, in terms of, ensuring that become together to implementation of this. So as Kamal said, the fine prints will have to get into and the models have to get created.
However, this is going to start from October onwards, as and when the budget, the conclusion or the rollout happens. So we are also working at the revenue stream. But yes, this is something that, we definitely can't [indiscernible], we are in midst of -- in this segment, and we'll continue to have a probably, as I think, one of your questions that, do we know what we are going to earn out of this? So we have not budgeted any of this in the current -- whatever comes in comes. But of course, we are going to put a separate stream to drive this.
Kamal, do you want to add anything?
No, Guru. Comprehensively covered.
No, so obviously, I was trying to understand what investments are required in this. Obviously, now we will get clarity when like when we get the fine print. But as a [structurable] story, obviously, there are a clear indication that, the ship from unorganized to organized can accelerate with this that has been there over the last 5 years, but maybe it can accelerate with these initiatives coming into. But more from the margin perspective, are we seeing some kind of margin improvement from these initiatives, or as we shift from the unorganized space to organized sector? And also in terms of the manufacturing side, whether the margin profile in the other segment [indiscernible] retail is similar to what we have in manufacturing [indiscernible].
So Amit, margin, definitely, when these schemes are implemented, it should definitely add to the margins, because some of these schemes are, like Guru explained, direct benefit transfer to employees. Some of these schemes are also towards the EPFO contribution to the employers. So this will definitely add to the overall company margin. But the quantification, as we said, we'll have to wait for the detailed guidelines.
Okay. And sir, if you can throw some more light on the IT staffing obviously, we have seen some recovery, but whatever we are hearing from the IT comment -- the hiring is expected to improve after a 6 quarter kind of flattish or decline, so how do you see the domestic IT staffing we need to grow from here. And also in terms of margins, if you can elaborate on how the margins look like [indiscernible].
So Amit, as Guru had said in his opening speech, we are seeing some green shoots and probably it should recover in the second half of the year. Anything else, what is Guru if you can add to this, give him some guidance on that?
Sure. So Amit, as I said, we open mandates in IT, we have seen going up it between Q4 to Q1. And we've also added net headcount of 300-plus in Q1. So with that note, as we move forward we will be -- because the average wage that we operate in IT is anywhere INR 75,000 to INR 80,000 per month and definitely at a higher margin, it has to be accretive in terms of overall big margin improvement.
And as I said, international geographies -- as and when they open up, and I also alluded to it, what's happening in Singapore currently, that's the largest second IT staffing that we have after India, and it's again a high-margin business there. Till Q3, we see a little muted, but Q4 is when we anticipate to open. So, by end of this year, we should definitely march towards that to, at least 20 to 30 basis points improvement in workforce.
The next question is from [indiscernible] from Equitas Investments.
My first question is in terms of manufacturing and industrial. Sir, we're hearing a lot of commentary from the industry that there is a lot of shortage of labor and also [indiscernible]. Or what kind of growth are you seeing in that segment?
Sure. You're right. If you look at in my speech, I specifically alluded to job spots. See, there is a primary challenge on the source destination and the deployment destination, where workforce area are deployed, right? So, most of these manufacturing clusters are not in the main [CPT], they're in the outskirts across various clusters.
And specifically, we are working with the modern manufacturing companies, these are not traditional sites where they'll have pulp deployment in every large unit. So considering that one of the key challenges is to create the sourcing hub, and job Spot is something that has given an early success to us.
We are going closer to those clusters, manufacturing clusters, setting up the satellite office there, ensuring digital -- and somebody who is walking in -- and of course, a lot of groundwork happens there, in terms of getting the footfall into place.
And once they come in, then digitally, the credentialization of the candidate, and ensuring that they go through the process. The biggest -- I mean, the hiring process is entirely different for manufacturing than what we hire for any other sector.
So we got to look at a lot of elements like hand-to-eye contact, finger dexterity. So based on that, the short-listing will happen and somebody will be able to get a job in a much quicker and faster time being closer. So we'll be closer to customers and associates who would be.
And also, there's a lot of local employment, deployment percentages that has to happen, depending upon which state of ordering, neighboring state these manufacturing units are. So in many ways, we have got the right with four of our job spots which we have launched, and we are moving ahead as we move step into Q2 and Q3, we will have -- by end of this year, we'll have about 12 job spots that we will be hiring for our customers from. So it's a challenge. And we have, in the last 3 years from where we were manufacturing, as the sector alone has crossed our most of what, 65,000 people by deployment.
And with CapEx investment coming into this space, we cannot take our eyes off, and as the first mover, I think we will definitely be front running in this space as we -- as the industry's investment on CapEx picks up.
Got it. And in terms of IT hiring, are you seeing improvement significantly and the mandates are also increased. Also in your commentary of all the IT companies that they have -- like TCS is going with 40,000 and Infosys is some 15,000, 17,000. So what kind of a growth rate or -- this will lead to better margins, because considering IT has been a good margin business for us. So, what kind of margin improvement do you see because of this? And we -- there is -- mainly because of data centers and semiconductor facility coming, there's a lot of shortage of manpower. So what are your views on that sector also?
Sure. So -- I mean, IT definitely is margin-accretive business. As I said, the average age there is in the range of INR 75,000 to INR 80,000 per associate per month. And definitely, as has been the talent -- I mean, we work in two divisions.
One is -- I mean, you did speak about IT services. See, IT services is an area which -- where the average wage is lesser compared to the GCCs. And there is an area which cannot be ignored. So we haven't seen much of moment for last 6 to 7 quarters.
And now we are seeing slowly TCS and Infosys, in their results talking about, how they are anticipating the hiring lineups, et cetera, for the upcoming quarters. And when it opens up, it really opens up well, and it definitely adds a quantum in terms of the headcount growing up, drastically for us. So we are waiting and watching for those mandates to come in, while it has been extremely marginal in terms of Q1, but as we step forward, we should definitely see some addition coming in from IT services.
Having said that, our exposure is almost 70% to GCCs. In GCC, specifically, we work with auto, engineering, health care, BFSI. So what happens here is, these are high-margin business. In fact, the way GCCs are set up, we also have strengthened our vertical.
We have domain expertise coming in from specific sectors, who drive these [towers] for us internally. So, for example, BFSI or engineering and auto. We design few components for our customers in terms of deploying people who design components. It's a very different hiring than what I hire for IT services. So, from that standpoint, of course, the margin that we realized from this kind of niche deployment is also on the higher side. The only point what we don't drive is, we don't drive headcount.
We largely drive this on the net gross -- I mean, the gross margin or a net margin that we realize per associate, per month basis, how the recruiters would work on the mandates. So with that, yes, it is going to definitely add as we move.
But however, just to bring that question back. See, while IT will continue to grow. Our general staffing, which is also the low-margin business, but -- it's a high cash-generating business will also continue to grow at the same speed. And sometime it negates the growth that -- something negates the growth that comes from other business. So we continue to balance both. At a platform level, I think anywhere between 2.4% to 2.6% is a well-balanced delivery platform [indiscernible].
Got it. And in terms of you just said we see a bit of wage hikes in Q1 and we are anticipating as per normal scenarios wage hikes in Q3. So, when can we pass this or partially or bit to the customers? And how is the business model?
Inflation increase, the merit inflation increase given to the core employees. It has nothing to do with what we bill to the customers. As far as the margin trajectory is concerned, Q1, like we said, we closed at around 3.7%. And with a mix change that is expected over Q3 plus some of our other businesses, which have high margin but low seasons in quarter 1. And with festive season coming up, we expect that we should -- by end of quarter 2 or early quarter 3, we should be back into 4% margin levels.
The next question is from the line of [indiscernible] from Emkay Global Financial Services Limited.
A couple of questions. First on workforce management. If I look core to asset showing a steady downward trend. Any implication on margin you think, or this is within range and that's why you don't see much change on margin implication perspective?
Second question is on the new onboard contribution, which we gave for domestic IT staffing. If I look, GCC remained roughly around 50 percentage for last reported few quarters. If I look at the contribution to revenue, it is showing steady uptick, how to read these two number, if you can help us understand, what it signifies and how to read this number?
Second set of question is on the Foundit. If I look we have seen sharp increase search profile, profile update and job posting on a sequential basis, the number which we posted, while active user base largely remains steady and so inconsistent trend. So how to reconcile this thing?
Whether we have made any product changes which lead to some kind of changing in reported metrics, which one should not focus on kind of thing, because it is one-off and maybe taper off in subsequent quarter?
Okay. So I'll ask Sekhar to first take the question on Foundit.
Yes. Specifically, on Foundit, there are two ways to look at the business. There's engagement that happens both on candidates and recruiters, which determine the health of the business and eventually these metrics convert into revenues.
So what we spoke about earlier on the metric help is, both on the candidate side, which we measure through traffic, profile and applications done by candidates on the platform, as well as on the recruiter side, which is net dollar retention rate as well as consumption, all of them have moved significantly positive in this quarter.
And even from a sales perspective, we do 30% from last year in the quarter to this quarter of the same -- this year's same quarter. So from that perspective, we are on track in terms of both our operating metrics, financial metrics as well as growth metrics, and that's the broad Foundit perspective. Anything specific you want to ask?
No. So let's see, if I look at your new search profile, it is 85% is up quarter-on-quarter, 94% on Y-o-Y. Similarly, profile update 86 percentage. Whereas, if I look at your revenue, it is more or less 1 percentage, 6 percentage kind of number. Even your active user base remained more or less stable. So consistency, let's say, 7 percentage quarter-on-quarter, 16% Y-o-Y. Whether we made some changes in the product, that's why these -- some of these reported metrics got -- are materially different than the trend?
Yes. So we launched our new version of the product, which is AI-driven, 2.0, as we call it, couple of quarters back. And one of the significant advantages in that, we use a lot of AI-based value that we're delivering both the candidates and recruiters, that has led to improvement in the operating metrics, which is what you are seeing here.
As you know, there are two certain marketplace. The more candidates uses, the more the platform becomes valuable to recruiters. And subsequently, this is the base on which we will build our sales growth for the coming quarters. So, most of the updates that you're seeing are driven by a new product update that we made to the platform over the last 2 quarters.
Let me simplify whether you expect revenue growth to follow a similar trend the way we are seeing this trend?
Yes. So from last year Q1 to this Q1, we grew 30%, and we expect a similar trend to happen over the subsequent quarters as well. And that's the guidance that we have given, even in Guru's commentary, that we expect a high growth year for Foundit significantly higher than the 30% that we delivered in Q1. That trend will continue.
Are you there, online?
On workforce, maybe you can answer?
Sure. Yes, I'll take that. So specific to GCC, you had a question. So just to clarify, on headcount, the GCC contributes about 43% and by [indiscernible] about 69%. So as I said...
No, my question was on new onboard contribution. I understand headcount because of realization variation. My question was new onboard contribution and then revenue contribution.
Of 300-plus people that we added in Q1, 49% of that are deployed in GCC, and balance 40% in IT services, this about 11% in enterprise. So the new net adds that we did are bifurcated in that, so which means 49% of our hiring is going towards GCCs.
Understood. And the last core associate?
Core to associate ratio [indiscernible].
Core to associate, see, it ranges between close to about 390 to about 425, depending upon the season and terms. So we were about 427, so as I said, Q2 and Q3 is the season, and we will be strengthening our sourcing engine across, plus the investment in job spots filtering the recruiters on the front line there. So I mean, that's a range, we'll be in the range between -- anywhere between close to 400 to 425.
No, Guru, so question is, let's say, we are seeing core to associate, it is 15 percentage down Y-o-Y, whether any margin implication happened because of that? Or you think you don't see much change on margin, because of that ratio remaining within the range?
Yes, it's within the range. It will not impact margin. That's what I meant.
The next question is from Dhvani Shah from Investec India.
I just wanted your thoughts on, first, how much is the PAPM in this quarter? And we will be trying to understand that the top customers have seen decline, so are there incremental contracts also facing some cost pressures in terms of the gross margin?
So our platform range is always between 670 to 700. So that's a range that we trend into. And specific to cost pressure, of course, I mean, I keep saying this cost pressure will be there. And since we -- whenever we go for -- there will be pressure, but we generally tend to stay ahead in terms of the deployment, as well as there are multiple line items that we look at, right? So capability of sourcing gives us the edge to stay continue in terms of the net realization that we get from an associate.
So I mean, that's a key differentiator, plus the technology deployment that we do in terms of applications related to work or Dash Plus, so they also realize some bit of exclusivity that we bring in, that we deploy people more differentiator when we deploy to customers. So from that through that engagement, we have been able to really keep our average between 670 to 700.
Okay. And just one more thing, you mentioned that the last -- this quarter, the conversion from gross margin to EBITDA was 67%. What was it last quarter?
We are in the same range between 65 to 67 -- is where we are ranging for last 4 to 6 quarters.
Okay. And just one more question. In the domestic IT segment, GCC share in terms of revenue is now 69%, but we were trying to understand Y-o-Y basis, the absolute number has declined by 4.9%, while ITES saw growth of 4.1%. Is this understanding correct?
Yes. It is. What happens is if you look at IT services, as I said, has started coming back in this quarter, have started getting the open from there. And if you look at even the new onboarding that we have said, we have added new onboarding of almost about 40% in Q1 from ITES, which is coming in [indiscernible].
The next question is from an [indiscernible] from [ BMSPL ] Capital.
So could you please give a time line of the demerger details? When will you think the demerger will be completed? And do you expect any hurdle on the way? And secondly, why do you think this demerger will unlock value for Quess Corp? So if you can give some color on that?
Sure, Thanks for your question. So on demerger, we have previously also guided that it's a 12 to 15 months process from the date of announcement. So we announced the demerger in the month of February and the scheme is a mirror shareholding scheme, and we expect with the simplistic scheme, we should be able to complete this demerger on the timeline that we stated.
Obviously, there is a lot of external interface on this. There are regulatory approvals. But so far, we are on track and hopeful that probably by Q1 of next year, we should have the demerger processed.
To your question on why or whether it will unlock any value, there are multiple reasons that we did and the announcement of demerger. It does simplify corporate structure and post simplification, there is an opportunity for value unlock. It also leads to an enhanced managerial focus, because all these businesses are well scaled large businesses and industry leaders in each of their respective states, respective lines of businesses. So demerger and running it as a separate listed entity, definitely bringing additional managerial focus and gives the competitive edge.
Each of our businesses are into different service lines and hence, there was also a need of a uniquely defined capital allocation strategy for each of these businesses, which again leads to value creation for shareholders. So that was also one of the reasons.
And it also gives flexibility to these businesses to pursue independent strategies, and then that brings a lot of clarity on the investment thesis for, let's say, the shareholders as to which businesses they are investing money. So those were some of the reasons the demerger was announced in the month of February. And like I said, we are on track. Hopeful that by Q1 of next year, we should be able to get this through.
Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take this as a last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kushal Maheshwari for closing comments.
This was a very engaging session. If there are any questions which are there, then you can reach out to our Investor Relations team separately. I would request Guru to give our closing remarks for the content.
Thanks [Technical Difficulty].
Ladies and gentlemen, we have lost the management connection. Please stay connected while we reconnect them. Sir, please go ahead.
So I take this opportunity to thanks each one of you again for joining us for this Q1 earning call. Your questions and feedback have always been valuable. And I would like to once again highlight that we remain at first in growing the business out has been across all our operational and financial metrics. Unlocking value to shareholders is in the process. And with this note, thanks again for joining us and look forward to meet you all soon. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of IIFL Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.