PNC Infratech Ltd
NSE:PNCINFRA
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the PNC Infratech Limited Q4 FY '22 Results Conference Call hosted by Axis Capital Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jiten Rushi from Maxus Capital Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Faizan. Good afternoon. On behalf of Axis Capital, I welcome everyone to the PNC Infratech Limited Q4 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call. From the management side, we have with us Mr. Yogesh Kumar Jain, Managing Director; Mr. B. Sawhney, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. D. K. Maheshwari, Vice President, Finance. We also have Investor Relations team of SGA in the call. To begin with, we will have opening remarks from the management, followed by question-and-answer session. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome to all of you present on the call to discuss our financial year, the fourth quarter of financial year '22. Today, along with me, I have Mr. T. R. Rao, Director; Dr. Bhupinder Sawhney, CFO; Mr. D.K. Maheshwari, VP Finance; and the Strategic Growth Advisers, our Investor Relations advisers. First, I will share my thought on a few central highlights, which will be followed by financial and operational highlights of the company. Base of projects awarding activity in the country significantly picked up during March '22. During March '22, MoRTH, NHAI and NHIDCL combinedly awarded over 5,100 crore meters of new highway projects located across the country. Total length of highway and expressway project awarding during financial year '22 stood at about -- at over 12,700 kilometers, which is approximately 22% increase over financial year '21. Though awarding activity in NHI remains subdued till February '22, picked up the pace in March '22. NHI about at 6,300 kilometer aggregate length of new highway and expressway project in financial year '22 at against 4,818 kilometer project awarded in financial year '21. While there has been a surge in awarding activity, development and construction activities were affected due to relentless challenges faced in execution by development and construction companies. In the beginning of financial year '22, both supply chains and education disrupted by more severe second wave of COVID-19. The year also witnessed swift and prolonged monsoon across the country. The challenges faced by industry during the year, including shortage of labor sharp increase in prices of raw material, including steel, cement, petroleum and other products. The ever challenges not only slowed down the progress of the construction, but also impacted the margins of the companies without any expectation. As a result, sales of highways construction fell to 10,457 kilometers in financial year '22 and at least 13,327 kilometer constructed in financial year '21. In case of toll projects, collection through FASTag grew sharply by about 67% on a year-on-year basis to reach over INR 38,000 crores in financial year '22. On national highways, faster penetration is now at 96.5% with 964 Toll Plazas live on FASTag, which is a very encouraging scenario.
Now coming to the key updates and highlights of the company. Our company received robust product inflow during fourth quarter of financial year '22. Company was declared as L1 in 7 HAM projects in March '22 and received for all the 7 projects with an aggregate bid project cost of INR 8,446 crores In addition to the quarter 4 order inflow, company also received a user fee collection mandate of Eastern peripheral expressway for one year from NHA for a contract value of INR 369 crores. In January '22, company's joint venture received LOI for design, construction, commissioning and operation and maintenance of 3 rural drinking water supply projects in district of Aligarh, Badaun and Barabanki, amounting INR 2,337 crore. Company share in the JV is 90%. On attribution, France company completed 4 HAM projects and 6 EPC projects during financial year '22 and received PCOD and CODs for the same. They come -- the completed HAM projects include Aligarh-Kanpur 4 lane and Package 2, Jhansi-Khajuraho 4 lane and Package 1 and 2, Chitradurga-Davanagere 6 lane. The completed EPC projects include Varanasi-Gorakhpur, Purvanchal express, Package 5 and 6, Nagina-Kashipur, Nagpur-Mumbai Expressway Package 4 and widening and strengthening of Lakhimpur National Park stretch of state highway in U.P. hiring in UB. Both Purvanchal Expressway package is completed ahead of the scheduled completion date. In March '22, company received INR 82.68 crore bonus for Purvanchal expressway for Package 5 towards 132 days early completion. And in April 22, company achieved INR 37.02 crore bonus for Purvanchal Expressway Package 6 to 97 days early completion. Given the substantial order book of water project, while company wants to consider its position in the water sector, company's focus area will remain in the highway and Expressway state. However, company will pursue guarded diversification in the project development business to continue the growth momentum without assuming the concentration risk. At present, the company has a total of 25 projects in PPP format comprising BOT toll, BOT annuity, OMP and HAM projects. Out of these 25 projects, we have 18 projects on HAM, with a total bid project cost of INR 24,590 crore. Out of 20 main projects, we have achieved the COD and PCOD of 5 projects, 6 are under construction and 7 projects recently awarded. In terms of equity investment, the total requirement for all the 18 projects, including recently awarded 7 HAM projects, is approximately INR 2,390 crores, out of which we have already invested INR 915 crore till March '22. The balance equity of INR 1,475 crore will be invested over the next 2, 3 years, for which internal accruals that would be generated over the next 2, 3 years should be sufficient.
Now moving on to our order book. As mentioned earlier, the company received decent total inflow in financial year '22, total amounting INR 11,152 crore. Our unexecuted order book on 31st March '22 was INR 14,663 crore. While including all HAM projects for which we have been [indiscernible], our order book would be over INR 21,000 crore. That gives robust revenue visibility for the company over the next 2, 3 years. Out of the total order book, the road highway project contributes around 65% and water and irrigation contribute about 35%.
Now update on Ghaziabad-Aligarh project divestment. Company concludes the divestment process of Ghaziabad-Aligarh project on 26 May '22 and the asset ended over to Cube Highway. Company received INR 274.85 crore from the sale, while total transaction closed at an enterprise value of INR 1,370 crore that includes senior debt to the lender. In quarter 3 of financial '22, financials company already provided for an impairment of INR 39.39 crore. And since the deal is closed now, company further provided for an impairment of INR 90.33 crore during quarter 4 of financial '22 in its standalone financials and INR 127.91 crores in the consol financials. It may be noted that no more provision is required to be provided for by the company in this regard.
Now I would present the standalone quarterly results of financial year '22 and annual performance of financial year '22. The results for the quarter and full year ended are not objectively comparable with the corresponding periods of last year as during the quarter 4 financial year '22. The company received an early completion bonus of INR 52.68 crores and has also provided an impairment of INR 90.33 crore towards sale of Ghaziabad-Aligarh project, to aligning to an impairment of INR 129.72 crores in financial year '22. Revenue of fourth quarter of financial year '22 is INR 1,835 crore, which is higher by 17% as compared to INR 1,644 crore in fourth quarter of financial year '21. EBITDA for the fourth quarter of financial year '22 is INR 225 crore, and EBITDA margin is 11.7%. Profit for the fourth quarter of financial year '22 is INR 135 crore as compared to INR 129 crore in the fourth quarter of financial year '21, with a growth of 6% on year-to-year basis. Revenue of financial year '22 is INR 6,305 crore, which is higher by 28% as compared to INR 4,925 crore of financial year '21. EBITDA for financial year '22 is INR 787 crore, which is higher by 16% as compared to INR 677 crore in financial year '21. The EBITDA margin for financial year '22 is 12.5%. Profit for financial year '22 is INR 445 crores as compared to INR 362 crore in finance year '21, a growth of 23% on year-to-year basis. On a consol basis, which is the impairment on account on divestment of Ghaziabad-Aligarh project is INR 127.9 crore in quarter 4 of financial year '22 and INR 167.3 crore for financial year '22. Consolidated revenue of quarter 4 of financial year '22 is INR 2,226 crore as compared to INR 1,864 crore in quarter 4 of financial year '21, registering a growth of 19%. Consol EBITDA for the fourth quarter of financial year '22 is INR 480 crore, which is higher by 14% as compared to INR 420 crore for the fourth quarter of the corresponding quarter last year. The EBITDA margin for quarter 4 financial year '22 is 22%. Consol PAT for quarter 4 of financial year '22 is INR 247 crore as compared to INR 150 crore in quarter 4 financial year '21, with a growth of 67%. Consol revenue of financial year '22 is INR 7,208 crore as compared to INR 5,788 crore in financial year '21, registering a growth of 25%. Consol EBITDA for financial year '22 is INR 1,534 crore, which higher by 8% as compared to INR 1,422 crore for the corresponding period last year. The EBITDA margin for financial year '22 is 21.3%. Consol tax for financial year '22 is INR 580 crore as compared to 5 -- INR 497 crore in financial year '21, with a growth of 17%. Our net worth on a standalone around basis of INR 3,340 crore as on date 31st March '22, whereas total standalone debt is INR 216 crore, which is on the equipment finance debt. This translates to net debt to equity of 0.6x. As on 31 March '22, we did not have any working capital on. The total cash and when as on 31st March '22 was INR 407 crore. We have a net cash of INR 191 crore as on 31st March '22. On consol basis, is INR 3,628 crore, whereas total debt is INR 4,779 crores as on 31st March '22. This translates to net debt to equity of 1.32x. The total cash and bank balance, including current investment, is INR 1,046 crore. With this, we'll now open the floor for question-answer. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.
Congratulations on a very, very good year. My first question is how do you see FY '23 in terms of revenues and EBITDA margin? And can you please explain the softness in the EBITDA margin in the current quarter?
Yes. I think EBITDA margin, it should be 13% to 13.5%.
In FY '23?
Yes. For FY '23.
And what revenues, the revenue guidance?
It should be a growth of around 15%.
Sir, any color on the last year EBITDA margin, especially last quarter? Was it affected by the high input inflation? And how much was the impact?
As regards the margin, it has marginally impact in -- but however, it is now recovering because price has also renewed. And it is marginally impact because of the -- otherwise we are having gestation clause in all the projects, in the HAM project as well in the EPC projects, sir.
Understood, sir. My second question is, sir, when do you expect your date for all these, say, won -- new HAM projects which you have won? And how -- what is the state of the land acquisition?
Actually, in regard to land, our 5 projects, 80% award is completed, means we have already achieved a 3G, and 3H is in the process. And regarding the 2 projects, the [indiscernible] are less than 80%.
When do you expect the date for all the new projects, sir?
Pardon?
When do you expect [indiscernible] days for all the...
We are expecting between November and December, from October to December.
The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
A couple of questions. First, when we say 15% revenue growth in FY '23, so last time we said INR 1500-odd crores revenue from UP projects. So that remains intact? Or is there any change?
That remains intact.
Okay. And how much are we factoring revenue from these 7 HAM projects where the appointed date, as you said, would be by third quarter, October, December?
We are not expecting much, but we can...
The growth of 15%, we have not considered revenue majorly in these 7 projects.
Can consider around INR 200 crore to INR 300 crores.
Okay. Yes. So sir, INR 200 crores to INR 300 crores revenue expected from these 7 HAM projects?
7 projects in this financial year.
Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it. Sir, first, the breakup of equity investment and the monetization. So you already mentioned that INR 2,390-odd crores equity is required and INR 1,475 crore is to be invested in 2 to 3 years. So in FY '23, how much? And FY '24, how much?
Out of the outstanding of INR 1,475 crores, we are expecting around INR 400 crores, INR 410 crores we have to include in FY '23 and around INR 450 crores to INR 500 crores FY '24, and INR 350 crores to INR 400 FY '25.
Okay. Okay. Got it. And in terms of the monetization, where we were expecting last time, we said that by end of March, we will have a clear idea in terms of 5 HAM and 1 annuity where we were expecting a monetization. So having a 3-odd proposal. So any update on that?
Actually, we are only discussing with 2 buyers. Valuation is not below our expectation because of certain regions. And rate of interest is also not stabilized at this point of time. We will take the decision -- in the FY '23, we will take the call.
But do we think that by end of FY '23, we get the cash from this monetization?
We are expecting.
Okay. But the 5 and 1 annuity, that remains the same? Or is there any inclusion of the more projects in that?
No.
Okay. Okay. So I have a couple of data points, particularly the order book for the remaining projects which are not there in the presentation. So I will name the projects and if you can tell me the outstanding order book. So Nagina-Kashipur, I think it is over, so it would be 0 as on March?
Almost 0, yes.
Okay. Bhojpur-Buxar and Koilwar-Bhojpur.
Bhojpur-Buxar is INR 61 crore and Koilwar-Bhojpur is INR 60 crore.
Okay. Then the Chitradurga-Devanagari is over Jhansi, both the packages are over? Chakeri-Allahabad?
362 -- INR 360 crore.
INR 360 crore, okay. Then Purvanchal is also over. Mumbai-Nagpur as on March, package 4?
It was completed in the March. It was negligible, around INR 25 crore, INR 30 crore was outstanding on March.
Okay. Then the Delhi-Vadodara package 29 and package 31?
29, was 210, and package 31, 510.
510. And the irrigation project in AP?
INR 940 crores.
INR 980 crores.
INR 940 crores or INR 980 crores, sir?
The INR 940 crores as on date, because we have built in the month of April and May around INR 40 crore, INR 45 crore.
Okay. Because in December, it was INR 960 crores. So has there any increase in scope of what?
[indiscernible] there.
Okay. So as on March, it was INR 980 crore.
Yes.
Okay. And remaining is water projects, so first, which was INR 246 crore and the other was INR 904 crore as on March -- December. So what's the value against that?
Actually, the last time, our T.R. Rao had told that the value of the original value had increased of the project. It was originally INR 2,800 crore, which had increased to INR 4,700 crore. The total outstanding in the water project as on 31st March is INR 6,900 crore.
Sir, if you can help me with the individual breakout because we got the 3 projects. One was -- originally was INR 246 crores. Second was INR 904 crore. And the third 6 water projects INR 2,351 crore. So against that, what...
Yes, we will give you the offline.
Okay. Okay. And lastly, sir, in terms of the early completion bonuses to -- we know Mumbai expects -- Mumbai, Nagpur-Mumbai, we were expecting some bonus around INR 50-odd crore, and Aligarh-Moradabad, INR 13 crore that have you booked or -- and apart from that, is there any other early completion bonus likely to be there in first and second quarter?
In the first and second quarter of FY '22, we don't expect any early completion bonus. In case of Aligarh-Moradabad, that bonus is due. But there are some internal processes involved at NHA. So it will take some more time to before we realize the bonus.
Okay. And nothing on the Nagpur-Mumbai expressway? No only completion bonus?
Yes, yes. As of now, execution is...
Okay. Lastly, on the CapEx and the date front. So far, what's the CapEx for FY '23 and date, how do we see by end of this year? So I hope the working capital days, whatever is there as on FY '22 will remain the same. Is there any change in that, please let us know.
In the CapEx, we are expecting around INR 100 crore, INR 120 crore in FY '23. And working capital is around 95 days.
Okay. And the standalone date would be by end of FY '23 would be how much?
That would be around INR 200 crore.
Okay. And then in terms of the inflow, how much more are we expecting in FY '23 now?
In the range of INR 8,000 crores to INR 10,000 crores, sir.
So this is also in the HAM, or any other sectors now we are looking at?
It's a combined, but primarily from the IT sector.
The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking.
Sir, first thing, in the JJM, how much revenue we have done in Q4 and F '22?
See JJM, FY '22, put together, we have done a billing of INR 108 crores, and we have done about -- around INR 200 crores. I'm telling about the total in the four quarters.
Right. Okay. And sir, of this, how much is paid and how much is outstanding?
See out of INR 200 crores, what then, we booked a INR 108 crores, and we received payment of INR 108 crores. 100%, whatever amount we book, we received the payment. Apart from that, we got INR 156 crores mobilization advance under Phase 2, which is 10% of the DPS approved. INR 156 crore mobilizations, we received.
Interest free.
Interest free.
Right. And sir, just to reconfirm, the JJM models have a price escalation mechanism. Is that correct? Both the Phase I and the Phase II?
Yes. Phase 1 and Phase 2, both are having...
No, no. Price escalation to the extent of only HDPE pipes, that is based on the regime of the oil companies, the base price and there, other price escalation is not there.
Sure. But then the price is a major component, right, of the...
Yes. Price is a major component.
Right. Also, sir, coming back to the point on the monetization of the HAM projects. So although we are looking at probably a better valuation than what we are getting today, but one point is that there are so many HAM projects in the market today. And wouldn't it be more prudent to maybe take a little bit of a valuation -- take little bit of lower valuation but better to free up the cash flow? That's just a question that I had, whether we have any such thought process, or we'll wait for the better valuation.
We're also thinking in the same line, and we are trying. We are also thinking in the same line.
Sure. Last question, sir. This quarter, we would have also had some revenue and costs attributed to the toll collection contract for the eastern peripheral. So if you can just give me what is the revenue which is included here? And what is the costs, the payment to NHAI, which is included in the Q4 numbers?
The total revenue was included in the INR 89 crore in the total revenue in this quarter. For the payment to NHAI, we can...
Revenue was slightly lower because of the COVID, on the COVID. And it is including -- nowadays, it is now around INR 120 crore per day is coming. But during the quarter, fourth quarter, it was slightly lower than expectation.
Okay. So that also may be one of the reasons why the Q4 margin may be impacted, right, because INR 89 crores, that would have not covered the whole cost to NHAI.
[indiscernible]
The next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from PhillipCapital.
Yes. Sir, 3 questions from my side. So first question, sir, in this quarter, the overall working capital and the data amount seems to have basically gone up a bit, quarterly wise also and annual-wise also. So any specific payment delays that we are seeing from any specific project? Or is it related to payments from the HAM projects? If you could just give some idea on that.
This is not the reason because a specific day on 31 March, it is comparatively higher because we are not taking the disbursement of the HAM EPC project. Or otherwise, it is in the range of the 50 days. In the March '22, since the company was having the cash and bank balance, not taking the disbursement of projects from the bank lenders.
Got it, sir. So basically, we're not taking disbursements of the HAM projects and till then we are completing, later on when we reverse, [Foreign Language] reverse [Foreign Language].
Right. Amount wise, it exceeds their higher side, but a data date wise is only 74 days, 96 days.
Right. Sure, sir. Got it. Got it. Got that. Secondly, sir, we guided to -- we are guiding to a 15% growth in revenue next year, which will probably take us to more than INR 7,000 crores of revenue. [Foreign Language] orders you had, as you mentioned, [Foreign Language] HAM projects [Foreign Language] we are taking only INR 200 crores to INR 300 crores of execution. So majority of execution has to come from the INR 14,000 crores of order book. So -- and INR 7,000 crores is JJM, out of which, you are expecting only INR 1,500 crores of revenue. So basically, what we are expecting is that out of INR 7,000 crores of remaining order book, we will do almost INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores of revenue.
Right, right.
On the road sector.
On the road sector.
From the road sector. So those are at, so we can be able to do INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores of order book? Is that understanding right, sir?
Right, right. Actually, the projects which we are executing in the road sector are expected to be completed majority of them during the FY '23.
Right, sir, that is what I want to ask. So that means most of these projects will get completed in FY '23.
Yes, yes, yes.
Got it. got It. So sir, this year, when we are looking at INR 8,000 crores to INR 10,000 crores of order inflow, is that the -- will that be majorly road projects only? [Foreign Language] given now the UP elections are behind, the government has been reelected, and they might again start giving out Jal-Jeevan Mission orders, are we expecting some inflow from Jal-Jeevan Mission also this year?
We are expecting some inflow. But essentially, from the road sector to the extent of 80% to 90%, it would be around 10% from the Jal-Jeevan Mission.
Got it. Got it. Sir, just one last question, if I may. Sir, make, Jal-Jeevan Mission, we have primarily taken orders in U.P. only. From what we understand, a lot of orders are about to come up in neighboring states of UP, like MP, some in Rajasthan and other states also. So will we be interested in taking projects in those states also or they will visit ourselves to U.P. only for JJM?
So we are evaluating...
Those opportunities.
Those opportunities.
Actually, our prime this -- priority is to consolidate our position in the whatever projects we got in the U.P.
The next question is from the line of Bharanidhar Vijayakumar from Spark Capital.
So what component of the water projects is made up of these pipes? You said it's a majority of the project cost. Just wanted to find out the percentage.
Percentage, we will share you separately. Otherwise, that the pipes constitute the majority of the costs, followed by the overhead tank and other box.
Okay. Okay. Not water pumps, et cetera?
See, normally, more we consider it, including the water that submittable pump and other fixes and there is some element of solar power also is there. But the majority is the pipes.
Okay. Next is on the competition. So we had won the 7 HAM projects in the month of March when competition was very high. Could you help us understand? According to you, would these projects continue to have a fair amount of margins that we will do at around 13% or the number of bidders are high, and you feel it might impact the margins on these projects?
See out of 7 HAM projects, what we secured in the fourth quarter of FY '22 are 6 projects are located in U.P., which are laying in our stronghold area. So we have our in-house mining as well as crushing and operations and which is able to provide the raw material for these projects. So also, we are also pursuing the -- what best we can do in the value engineering side. So we don't expect any impact on the margins, so the 13% EBITDA we should be able to maintain for all these 7 projects.
Okay. Now coming to this INR 274 crores money received for the Ghaziabad-Aligarh deal, where is it in the cash flows? I'm not able to see it in the standalone cash flows.
We have received 26 of May number, this payment we have received on 26th of May.
So it will be reflected in the coming quarters.
It's still reflected in Q1 of FY '23.
Right. So we had a lot of warrants loans given to this project. So how would these revenues -- how would this INR 274 crores be used?
Warrant has already been converted into [indiscernible] 2020, March '20, sir. [indiscernible] reflecting in the unsecured loan, in the book of the PNC and the associated company, the total is over INR 287 crores, which includes the amount of the warrant. It was issued in the month -- year 2016.
Okay. Got it. And coming to this -- you mentioned 2 parts of the 7 new HAM projects have some land admission deals or it is not up to 80%. So we do have position for 80% of the land. Am I right? Which are these two projects?
Out of 7, 5 projects.
Out of 7, 5 projects, we have at 80G, award has happened more than 80%. 2 projects, one is Mathura-Bareilly 1B and Dwarakpur-Sonori, these 2 projects, the award is less than 80%.
Right. When you mean 3G, it is progression, not percent.
Yes. 3G means progression.
Yes. So then these other 2 projects when are we likely to get?
See in relatively, in compared to the remaining 5 projects, there will be a delay of 1 month to 2 months, that's all. So what we expect after all the 7 projects, 80% plan would made available before declaration of appointed dates.
The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.
Sir, my first question is on the revenue side for FY '23. So as you said in the previous answer...
Sorry. Mr. Rushi, the audio is not clear from your line. Please use the handset .
Yes. Can you hear me now? Sorry.
Yes, sir.
So you said that revenue from road projects, you can expect INR 6,000 crores in FY '23. So in last call, we said that we can expect revenue from water projects at around INR 1,500 crore in FY '23. But with now revision in cost for the water projects, almost 40%. So what is the revenue which we can expect from the water projects and also revenue from the AP irrigation projects? So if you add all this together, our revenue guidance can be upwards of 20%, 25%. Can you please throw some light on this?
See the water project we see, maintain INR 1500 crores of the Jal Jeevan. The reality is that they have approved a project worth of INR 1,560 crores. 702 DPS, they approved. So these projects are -- they approved during the period of September and December, which had to be completed within 18 months. So we expect a revenue of INR 1,500 crores only, we are not affording. And irrigation, we are expecting a revenue of around INR 200 crores in the current financial year, FY '23. So both put together will come around INR 1,700 crores. Plus, in the road sector, as we mentioned, it will be between...
Around INR 6,000 crores.
Around maybe INR 5,500 crores to INR 6,000 crores from the road sector. So overall, we expecting around INR 7,200 crores kind or INR 7,300 crores, so this will be around 15% of the growth.
But sir, just harping on it, like in the water segment, we said that EPR was cleared last year in September/October. But probably, the other DPS will also come through this year. So your execution will again start. So then what is the revenue you're expecting in FY '24 and '25, if at all you're -- so what is the completion time line for the water projects and the irrigation project? So what can be the revenue run rate in '24, '25, if you want to extrapolate?
See, the -- how fast they approve the DPR and based on the funds that are available with the states governments, so they'll keep on approving the DPRs. So as of now, we can't say. But definitely in FY '24, the revenue guidance would be more than FY '23. So it will be around INR 2,000 crores what we expect, it is very rudimentary figure, going forward only will be approved.
Right, right. So but we can expect the project to complete in '25, right?
Which one?
These water projects in UP, JJM projects should get over in '25, that 3 projects, would it be kind of one new project in January?
They give 18 months' time after the approval of DPR. So whenever they will approve, DPR plus 18.
So hopefully, it'll be completed by FY '25.
And the irrigation project at AP, it is going slow. And you said -- you gave a guidance of INR 200 crore only this year, so I understand because of monsoon, irrigation projects [indiscernible]. So what is the time line for this to get complete?
So we have time up to '24. We executed an agreement in '21. So we have got time up to '23, '24.
March FY '24, you are saying?
Yes, FY '24.
Okay. And sir, most of the older road projects like Delhi-Vadodara packages and the HAM projects of Unnao and others like Meerut and all that should get over this year, right, sir?
See, Delhi-Vadodara, Lucknow [indiscernible], and Bihar 2 projects and Chakeri-Allahabad, all these projects we expect to complete during the year FY '23.
Okay. So which project will you complete in '24 then?
Projects which are now going on, now, [indiscernible]. So they may slightly go into '24.
So Unnao-Lalganj...
Unnao has 30 months' time. Ghaziabad 15 months' time period...
Got it. Okay. And sir, can you give me the total collection number for your project, sir? That's Q4 and FY '22 full year.
Yes. The NPI ratio for fourth quarter is 14.3 and full year is 51.3. [indiscernible] Kanpur highway is 114.3 and full year is INR 442 crore. Then Kanpur highway is 20.2 and full year is INR 100 crore, Nagina is 10.46 and full year is 43.2. Bareilly INR 13 crore, fourth quarter, and the full year is 60.4.
60.4. Okay.
And [indiscernible] 32.16, and full year is 128.64.
And sir what would be Ghaziabad Aligarh in Q4?
Q4 is 156.8. And whole year, 225.2.
225 point?
2.
The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DM Capital.
Sir, my first question, a clarification on bonus income. You said that are you expecting the bonus income from the package 5 of the Purvanchal expressway? And secondly, on the Aligarh project, the [indiscernible] project, how much -- how many days ahead we completed the project?
In case of Purvanchal express package 5, we completed 132 days ahead of schedule.
For package 5.
For package 5, the rate of bonus is 0.04% of the contract cost for each day. So we got INR 82 crores from the Purvanchal express package 5. And in case of Purvanchal express package 6, we completed 97 days ahead of schedule at the rate of 0.04%. And we got a bonus of INR 37 crores from the Purvanchal express package 5 in the month of April, which will be reflected in the Q1 of FY '23.
Understood, sir. And on Aligarh-Moradabad, sir?
Aligarh-Moradabad, see there is a bonus due of around INR 17 crores because there is a lot of approval and other processes involved, so that is still at NHAI end. So we expect to realize that bonus in FY '23.
Understood, sir. Secondly, on this, we won a project from NHAI for collecting toll at plazas. Are you willing to do more such project? Or it was the one-off?
We evaluate based on the project opportunities. We'll see whether we did it, but this kind of project is the only 1 project has come from NHAI, so this is on a year-to year basis.
Presently, we are not bidding for one year. We are trying for OMP and TOT. So it is just -- only one package is here.
We can say it's a one-off kind.
Yes, yes, one-off kind.
Are we looking also for TOT for recharge? Or they not -- we will not take the toll risk?
No. Just we are calculating -- we are evlauating last 2 TOT, that's not bidded.
Understood, sir. And are we looking at some packages of the Ganga expressway from the private companies?
No.
No.
Not at all.
The next question is from the line of Parvesh Qazi from Edelweiss.
Yes. Sir, I wanted to get some more details on the JJM policy overall, I mean, how many DPRs have been till date? And how much DPR separation and approval do we expect in FY '23?
See, I think that JJM Phase 2, we have a total DPR of around 1,600. Out of 1,600, 700 DPRs they approved for a cost of INR 1,560 crores. So we expect another 300 DPRs to be approved in the current financial year. So that would roughly translate into around INR 500 crores for the work. So the remaining DPRs, so we have prepared, it is in the process of approval and then finally sanctioned by the SLSSC and the signing of coverage. So it's a long-term process.
And for Phase 1, everything has been approved, right?
Which one? sorry.
For phase 1.
Phase 1 is the only one project, that's what we have got approval. Now we achieved more than 35% progress in that front. So to complete that project in FY '23.
The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.
Congratulations on a good financial year and question. My first question is on state base budget. So it was -- also any major projects...
Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Kandpal. The audio is not clear from your end. Please use the handset, sir.
Yes. So I'm asking that in this financial year, is there any major CapEx announcement from the road, or any other project, sir?
Parikshitji, your voice is not clear.
Perhaps, please, can you come again?
Sir, [Foreign Language] the state budget [Foreign Language] major announcement, sir, infrastructure investments [Foreign Language] and the roads and the expressways. The Ganga expressway was the last one [Foreign Language].
No, no, as of now nothing. See Ganga expressway is the last one. For other projects, even they are approaching government of India. So no further projects by UP government.
Okay. Second question is on the water projects. [Foreign Language] INR 6,900 crores water care for the JJM project spend. In the INR 6,900 crores, how much is -- only INR 1,500 -- approval was for INR 1,500 crore only.
Yes, yes. Out of INR 6,900 crores, only INR 1,560 crores worth of projects approved by the state level company.
And you said all these INR 7,000 crores will be completed by FY '25?
We expect.
Okay. Just lastly, margin EBITDA [Foreign Language] presentation [Foreign Language], the 12.7-odd percent, [Foreign Language] bonus as a part of revenue -- is the result, which was disclosed. Bonus -- INR 82 crores of bonus is part of revenue and [indiscernible] is the part of other expenses, right?
Yes, right, right. Yes.
[Foreign Language] included how much will be the loss on peripheral loans and EBITDA? .
Around INR 5 crores in FX.
Around INR 4 crores to INR 4.5 crores, sir.
In fourth quarter, right, because of that margin looks a little lower.
Right, right.
Okay. Just lastly, sir, the HAM project, the monetization you look for [Foreign Language] spoken about, now the interest rates are going up. But still, anything the investors are still not given any thought that valuations are going up for valuation if they should give to you should be a little better because your body lever is still like valuations are not as per expectation and you'll still wait and watch. So what are the major variables in the model, which is basically not making this deal happen. So what are the major concerns. So if you can just touch upon GST-related issues, has that been sorted out by NHAI than direct taxation-related issues, has that been parted out. So interest is obviously one part that is not dependent, but other 2 things if you can throw some light how the investors are looking at those factors on direct taxation and GST-related issues.
Actually, we are discussing on the buyers. And the main concern is the valuation that we are expecting, but we have to take the DC, and we will take the call in FY '23.
[Foreign Language] like are you thinking because now the portfolio has become quite sizable, exceeding like INR 2,000 crores per of equity. Already we are nearing INR 1,000 crores of investment. So are we looking at giving a rethought that maybe public [Foreign Language] will be the right way of creating better valuation, better value at lower cost of capital?
Instead of the private, we can go on the public also.
Okay. Any fundraising plans, because there is a huge outlook for equity. So are we looking at any fundraising plan for that as a stand-alone level?
Presently, we did not require for equity, and there is no planning of the fund raise in the next 1 or 2 years at least.
Okay. So just to conclude, sir. I mean, despite -- so earlier we used to get projects on a premium on HAM, we used to get margins of 13% to 13.5%. Now last year, most of the projects have gone under discounts. Commodity prices are higher. But still, we are guiding that we'll be able to 13%, 13.5% margin because we have very local expertise and local supply chains in UP it which can help us get some productivity and value through prices, right?
Yes, yes.
The next question is from the line of Viraj Gawade from Aurum Capital.
Sir, I want some -- can you shed some light on the INR 90.33 crores impairment of Ghaziabad-Aligarh expressway and also INR 120.72 crore for the same one. And will we save any impairment going forward?
No impairments in future.
Okay. Okay. So -- and sir, why this impairment in recent Ghaziabad-Aligarh expressway.
Pardon?
Sir, why the impairment -- the recent impairments, sir, INR 90.23 crores and INR 120.70 crore, why this impairment recently?
See, actually, the valuation, what we are expecting from the sale plus what are the compensation we are expecting from NHAI are more than what we actually received. See many of the projects of NHAI and similar kind of BOT toll, NHAI compensated higher amounts, but on account of delay in handing out of the land and further emissions, some part of NHAI, but in the case of Ghaziabad, though we are expecting more than INR 500 crores compensation from NHAI, finally the Ghaziabad-Aligarh projects would be able to receive only INR 150 crores. So there were some reduction in the compensation, so which resulted into impairment.
The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Sir, what is the mobilization advance and retention money as on March?
We share you separately? Retention money was INR 198 crores and mobilization INR 620 crore.
Sorry, retention money was INR 198 crore?
Right.
And mobilization was?
INR 620 crore.
INR 620 crore. And what was the HAM datas out of the total INR 1,273-odd crore datas?
What is the HAM date?
HAM datas, sir, receivable, HAM receivable. So total [Foreign Language] INR 1,273 crores as on March. So [Foreign Language] HAM datas because last quarter, it was INR 942-odd crores, so.
It is INR 793 crore.
And sir, Ghaziabad-Aligarh, just a clarification, though you said no impairment required. But when you announcements came, it said that we invested INR 442 crore and received INR 275 crore. So that is the loss of -- or impairment of INR 167 crores. But the impairment that we have taken is lesser than that. Why is it so?
In Q3, you already covered INR 39 crores impairment.
Yes, sir. So INR 39 crore plus this INR 90 crore adds to 121 -- INR 127 crores.
And consol. And remaining, it has gone into the PNC holding because the equity was included by PNC but as directly as well as from PNC into holding. So INR 37 crore has gone into PNC in the holding. In case you see that consol at all, it will impact 120 -- INR 167 crore, including INR 39 crore in the third quarter of FY '22.
Okay. Got it. Got it. And the toll revenue project that we have -- where we have booked INR 89 crore revenue and INR 4 crores, INR 4.5 crores loss in this quarter. So how do we -- so this is in the stand-alone revenue. So every quarter -- so this quarter, how do we see the revenue? And are we looking for any EBITDA loss in this quarter?
We don't expect. What has happened, from April onwards, the toll revenues improved sizably. So we don't expect any revenue loss during FY '23 for the remaining 9 months.
Okay. Okay. So at the EBITDA level, if it comes as per your expectations, so what would be the EBITDA margin? So revenue, let's say, whatever, 89 was in fourth quarter. So in this quarter, Q1 FY '23, if it comes as per your expectations, so what would be the EBITDA margin that we look at?
We have not specifically worked out. We'll come back to you separately on a one-to-one.
The next question is from the line of Uttam Srimal from Axis Securities.
Sir, you guided for CapEx of INR 100 crores to INR 125 crores in FY '23. So what is the CapEx guidance for FY '24, sir?
Should also in the range of INR 75 crore to INR 80 crore, but not more than that.
Okay. And sir, what is the current composition of our EPC and HAM projects currently in terms of percentage?
Around 65% is the EPC total and 35% is the water. And if you will see the breakup of the HAM versus EPC, major part is the HAM projects.
So what will be in terms of percentage, sir, overall?
It would be around 80-20.
It is 80 HAM and 20 is EPC.
Yes, yes, including the new products.
Including, sir. Okay. And sir, now coming to operating cash flow. Last year, our operating cash flow has risen quite substantially. So we are -- do we think that we will be able to include substantially in FY '23?
We don't think so much.
Because it has reduced to INR 88 crores. In FY '21, it was INR 273 crores.
This is a physical date, it actually, sir. In case if you see the debtors, in case if we take the [indiscernible] from the HAM health project, it should be much higher. We are not taking the debt disorder from the HAM project.
The next question is from the line of Prem from Anandrathi.
Yes. Most of my questions are already answered so just a couple of questions. So mostly clarifications on me. So when I look at consolidated financials for the quarter, the contract revenue that you show in your segment numbers, it's around INR 1,800-odd crore. And when I compare it with our stand-alone number, it's -- the difference is quite stark. I mean, when I compare with, let's say, the earlier quarters and difference on an average used to around INR 20 crore, INR 30-odd crores between stand-alone and the contract revenues that you report in segment. But in this quarter, it's more than INR 100-odd. So would you be able to explain and why would this difference been there in this quarter? I mean this large difference we made in this quarter. And same way, I mean, toll and annuity revenue that you report in your segment has gone up from INR 233 crores last quarter to INR 427 crores in this quarter.
It is only because of the elimination in the consol accounts because [indiscernible] we have taken. So elimination is the control. That is the only reason, between standalone and consol.
And how about the toll annuity income from INR 230 crore to INR 427 crore, almost INR 200 crore of change on a sequential basis.
We have received the annuity in the new HAM project, no, because around 5 projects, this is the COD and PCOD in this year. So we have also received the annuity in the new HAM projects in this year.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Sure. And just one more question, sir, on this Ghaziabad-Aligarh deal that we've done. I mean, I think everything has already settled, so the money that has come to around INR 235 crores, this is adjusted on any claims that have been received by the SPV or the claims would be over and above this? I mean, the INR 150-odd crores amount that you spoke about that we've been able to manage in terms of claims from NHAI. Has that money already come and the valuation is adjusted to the INR 150-odd crore, or INR 150 crore is over and above this entire settlement?
That INR 150 crores compensation was received by the SPV. So that includes the entire settlement.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jiten Rushi for closing comments.
Thanks, Faizan. We thank you -- the participant -- we thank the participation for joining -- participants for joining the earnings call. Thanks a lot. And over to you, sir, for any closing remarks.
Thank you, everyone, for your participation in our earning call. We have uploaded the presentation of our company's website. In case of further queries, you may get in touch with the State advisers, our Investor Relations advisers or feel free to get in touch with us. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.