NTPC Ltd

NSE:NTPC

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q4

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call of NTPC Limited, hosted by JM Financial. [Operator Instructions] . Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sudhanshu Bansal. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Bansal.

[Sudhanshu Bansal, analyst]

Thank you, Darwin. Good evening, everybody.

On behalf of JM Financial, I welcome you all to the conference call of NTPC Limited to discuss the fourth quarter and FY '23 results. We have with us the leadership team of NTPC comprising Mr. Jaikumar Srinivasan, Director, Finance; Mr. Dillip Kumar Patel, Director, Human Resources; Mr. Ramesh Babu, Director, Operations; Mr. Ujjwal Kanti Bhattacharya, Director, Projects; and Mr. Shivam Srivastava, Director, Fuel.

Thank you so much, sirs, for your kind presence and giving JM Financial the opportunity to host the call. With this, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Srinivasan, Director, Finance, for opening remarks and taking the call forward. Over to you, sir.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Thank you, and a very good evening to all the participants. I, Jaikumar Srinivasan, Director of Finance, welcome you to the Q4 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call of NTPC Limited. I have with me my colleague directors whose names have just been announced. I have also with me other key members of the NTPC team. Today, the company has announced the audited financial results for FY '23 along with the financial results for Q4 FY '23.

The key performance highlights for the financial year and quarter ended 31st March 2020 have already been disclosed on both the stock exchanges. Keeping up with expectations of our stakeholders, NTPC has yet again recorded multifold progress in its operational and financial performance.

The key highlights of our performance in FY '23 are as under -- which I'm sharing with you now. Operational highlights of FY '23 as under -- during financial year '23. NTPC Group has added 3,952 megawatts of commercial capacity to its portfolio. As on 31st March 2023, the commercial capacity of NTPC and 56,368 megawatts on a stand-alone basis and 72,254 megawatts for the group. NTPC Group generated 399 billion units of -- in financial year '23 as compared to 361 billion units in financial year '22 and increased by nearly 11%.

Stand-alone gross generation in financial year '23 was 344 billion against an increase of 11% over previous year gross generation of 310 billion units. During financial year '23, average Plant Load Factor of NTPC coal stations was 75.90%, as against the national average of 64.21%. Thereby maintaining a spread of over 11% over the national average. For financial year '23, 5 coal stations of NTPC, which is Korba, Vindhyachal, Rihand, Talcher and Kanti were among the top 10 performing stations in the country in terms of PLF.

During financial year '23, there has been an improvement in scheduling by the beneficiaries, thereby reducing the backing down from 96.70 billion units in financial year '22 to 91.85 billion units. I now share the status of the fuel supply. During financial year '23 materialization of coal against the annual contracted quantity was 181.34 million metric tons, which constitute 93.60% materialization as against 174.36 million metric tons, constituting 94.76% the corresponding previous year. Total coal supply during financial year '23 was [ 223.85 ] million metric ton including 14.56 million metric ton of imported coal as against [ 202.55 ] million metric ton in the previous year, which included 2.47 million metric ton of imported coal.

There has been an increase of close to 65% in NTPC's own coal production. That is from 14.02 million metric ton in financial year '22 to 23.2 million metrics in the financial year '23. I'll update you on some of our previous financial performances and key figures. Total income of NTPC for financial year '23 is INR 167,724 crores as against the previous year total income of [ INR 124,752 crores ], registering an increase of 34.45%. Profit after tax for financial year '23 is at INR 17,197 crores as against INR 16,282 crores in the previous year, registering an increase of 5.62%. Total income of the group for the financials is 177,977 crores as against the previous year total income of INR 134,994 crores, registering an increase of 31.84 percentage. Profit after tax of the group for financial year '23 is INR 17,121 crores as against the previous year's profit after tax of INR 16,960 crores.

Just reconfirming my audibility. I'm I audible?

[Operator]

Yes, sir, you are audible.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

I'll continue. During financial year '23, our share of accounted [indiscernible] in our joint ventures and subsidiaries is INR 2,246 crores as compared to INR 2,398 crores in the previous year. During financial year '23, we have received dividend income of INR 2,336 crores from our subsidiaries and joint venture companies, as against [indiscernible] received in financial year '22. For financial year '23, the Board has recommended of financing 30% of the paid-up share capital, that is INR 3 per share, subject to the approval of the shareholders in the ensuing Annual General Meeting.

As you are aware, interim dividend for the financial year '23 at the rate of 42.5% of the paid-up capital that is at the rate of 4.25 per share has been already paid in February 2023. The regulated equity as on 31st March 2023 for NTPC stand-alone and group was INR 77,628 crores and INR 94,180 crores, respectively. Gross block of NTPC has increased by INR 12,802 crores to figure of [ INR 269,166 crores ] as at 31st March 2023. On a group level, gross block has increased by INR 30,311 crores to 338,436 crores, mainly on account of capitalization of new units. The capital work-in-progress, including capital advances of NTPC stood at INR 67,771 crores as at 31st March 2023 as compared to INR 79,272 crores as at 31st March 2022. At the group level, [indiscernible] stood at INR 98,974 crores as at 31st March '23 compared to INR 100,047crores as at 31st March '22.

At the group level, the ratio of gross block to CWIP is 3.42 in financial year '23 compared to 3.08 in financial year '22. Going forward, we expect growth to continue and believe the turnover from CWIP to gross block to be quicker because of greater mix of renewable capacity, having a shorter gestation period. As regards to fund mobilization, during Q4 of financial year '23, NTPC executed a syndicated unsecured term loan of JPY 54.4 billion, equivalent to USD 400 million under the automatic route of Reserve Bank of India's external commercial borrowing, ECB regulation. Average cost of borrowing in financial year '23 was 6.40% as compared to 5.94% for the financial year '22.

In financial year '23, we have incurred capital expenditure at the group level of 35,204 INR crores as compared to INR 35,719 crores in the previous year. Stand-alone CapEx of NTPC in financial year '23 was INR 24,597 crores as compared to INR 21,036 crores in the previous year. Cumulative expenditure of INR 9,279 crores has been incurred on the development of coal mines until 31st March 2023. On a stand-alone basis, capital outlay has been estimated at INR 22,454 crores for the financial year '24.

During financial year '23, NTPC has realized INR 154,356 crores, which is more than 100% of the billed amount. Trade receivables were INR 15,964 crores excluding unbilled revenue as on 31st March 2023, which are equivalent to 36 days of sales in comparison to 45 days of sales as of 31st March '22. During financial year '23, INR 8,440 crores bills were discounted at bank up against INR 8,800 crores discounted during financial year '22 and this discounted as on 31st March '23 stood at INR 1,287 crores. A few other highlights are as under -- NTPC Group already has an operational renewable energy capacity of 3.2 gigawatts and the total RE capacity in the pipeline has exceeded 20 gigawatts with various agreements in place.

Diversified RE portfolio. NTPC is entering hydrogen and energy storage solution in a big way. To this effect recently, work for hydrogen hub at a place called Pudimadaka in Andhra Pradesh was initiated. Also a storage tender of -- for 9,000 megawatt hours has been quoted. NTPC Limited completed consolidation of its RE energy portfolio under 1 umbrella entity that is NTPC Green Energy Limited on 20th February 2023. The transaction comprised of transfer of 15 RE assets through a business transfer agreement and the transfer of 100% equity shareholding of NTPC Renewable Energy Limited, NREL, a wholly-owned subsidiary of NTPC, through a Share Purchase Agreement. This scheme has been implemented as a part of the corporate business plan of the group to provide an impetus to its focus on achieving the 60 GW RE capacity target by FY '[ 2032 ].

NVVN, our trading subsidiary, transacted 31 billion units during financial year '23 as against 24 billion units during financial year [indiscernible] registering a growth of around 29%.

A nonbinding MOU has been signed with government of Andhra Pradesh for development of a hydrogen hub at Pudimadaka near Visakhapatnam. The project will involve establishment of manufacturing facility for hydrogen-related equipment, production and export of green hydrogen, ammonia, green [indiscernible]. Of the several MOUs signed by NTPC and its subsidiaries, a few are highlighted here. NTPC Limited and Nuclear Power Corporation Limited have signed a supplementary joint venture agreement to collaborate and cooperate in the field of development of nuclear power project, which shall help the country meeting the clean energy commitments to achieve net-zero emission target by 2070.

Initially, the JV company shall develop 2 Pressurized Heavy-Water Reactor projects at Chutka Madhya Pradesh Atomic Power Project, 2x700 MW and Mahi Banswara Rajasthan Atomic Project, 4x700 MW, which were identified as a part of fleet mode nuclear projects. NTPC Green Energy Limited signed MOU with HPCL and IOCL for supply of round-the-clock renewable power project requirements. NREL has signed MOU with Indian Army for setting up green hydrogen project in army establishment. This agreement ushers in a new era of Border Security Act with energy security for the different sources of the country. NREL had signed Term Sheet with Greenko ZeroC Pvt Ltd, a Greenko Group Company, to supply 1,300-megawatt round-the-clock RE power for powering Greenko’s upcoming green ammonia plant at Kakinada, India. The agreement between the 2 companies is 1 of the world's single largest for supply of round-the clock renewable supply for an industrial clients. NTPC has been ranked #1 independent power producer and energy trader globally in the S&P Global Commodity Insights of Top 250 Global Energy Company Rankings 2022.

NTPC has been restored with the most iconic organization award in the world manufacturing award ceremony by the World Manufacturing Congress. The award recognizes the leveraging of people's practice and CSR initiatives for success and future readiness. NTPC received the 9th PSU IT award under the Organization category. This award has been given to NTPC for its digital transformation strategy, to be a digital enterprise. NTPC has been presented the Green Ribbon Championship Award for its commitment to sustainability. Green Ribbon Champions is an initiative of Network 18 media house to felicitate the prominent players across industries for significant contributions through their initiatives and projects across sustainability, afforestation, biodiversity, waste management, renewable energy and more.

These are some of the key highlights I wanted to share with all the participants in this earnings conference call before we begin the question-and-answer session. Thank you so much for the patience listening. Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.

[Mohit Kumar, analyst]

Good performance [indiscernible] the year. My first question is, sir, how are you thinking about the monetization of renewables portfolio? Have you dropped the idea of strategic stakes there? If yes, what are the reasons and the way forward. And if no, can we expect the monetization strategies to happen in this fiscal year?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

No, we -- there was a definite plan for monetization of the RE assets, and you may be aware that NTPC also ran a process for partial stake sale, minority stake sale in the NGEL. However, despite some participation, the stake sale strategy of NGEL did not materialize due to various reasons. However, going ahead, we would still like to -- we have distinct plan of either going for IPO route or some kind of strategy sale initiative very soon. And this would be -- this is very much on cards considering the fast pace of expansion we are expecting an RE [indiscernible] will be needed.

And it will also help to unlock our RE business. But only the question [indiscernible] on our readiness and the market scenario, which we'll share with you in some from now.

[Mohit Kumar, analyst]

My second question is on the capacity addition. Capacity addition has been on the lower side in last fiscal. We commissioned 3 gigawatt, 1.3 gigawatt of coal-based capacity and 1.7 gigawatt of renewables. Can we expect slightly better number in FY '24 and FY '25? And can you give us a breakup between cost and portfolio on renewable capacity of capacity commissioning?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

See we had a commercial capacity addition in financial year '23 to the tune of 1,506 megawatt on a stand-alone basis. And including our subsidiaries, JVs, it stood at 3,952 megawatts [indiscernible]. And going ahead we'll have a capacity addition target of close to 4,600 megawatt in the financial year '24 [indiscernible] 3,580 megawatt during financial year '25 and [ 2,424 ] megawatts in financial year '26. However, this is purely on the conventional power. As far as renewable side is concerned, I can quote a collective figure of close to 16 gigawatts over the next 3 years, depends on the pace of implementation. So 16,000 megawatts would be there. So if you broadly divide over 3 years, it would be around 4,000 to 5,000 megawatts. It will differ from year-to-year basis.

[Mohit Kumar, analyst]

Do we have thinking about PPA for all the renewable capacity coming? Or do you expect to tie up some of the capacity or...

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

16 gigawatt has a clear visibility. This is -- this will be implemented by NGEL and NRL. And this capacity, what we are saying is based on the tenders already won and the bilateral tie-ups -- definite bilateral types, which we have with different entities.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Apoorva Bahadur from Goldman Sachs.

[Apoorva Bahadur, analyst]

Sir, if you can please share your CapEx plans for the year '24 and '25 as well, that will be very helpful.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Yes. The CapEx plan is -- the capital expenditure for '22, '23 was INR 22,454 crores and -- that was the target. Against that we have achieved close to [indiscernible]

[Unknown Executive]

Let me tell you, on the CapEx front, we have actually achieved INR 24,597 crores against a target of INR 22,454 crores, which is 110% of the target, that's is stand-alone basis [indiscernible]

[Operator]

Excuse me, sir, there is a cross connection with your line. I'll just disconnect your line and reconnect, sir.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your patience. We have reconnected with the management. Sir, you may proceed.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Yes. Were we discussing about the CapEx?

[Apoorva Bahadur, analyst]

Yes, sir.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

So let me start again. In the just concluded financial year '22/'23, our target was INR 22,454 crores Against that, we have achieved INR 24,597 , which is 110% of the target, that is NTPC stand-alone basis. As NTPC Group, our target was INR 26,562 crore. Against that, we have achieved INR 35,204 crore, which is 133% of the target. For the next financial year, that is '23/'24, which is the current one, our target for NTPC stand-alone remains as INR 22,454 crore and our group target is INR 28,373 crore and we are confident we'll be achieving these targets this year also. Going forward, for the next financial year, NTPC stand-alone is INR 24,701 crore; '25/'26 is INR 31,142 crore; '26/'27 is INR 34,096 crore. And the group capacity -- group CapEx, we'll tell you later because we are still consolidating with NEEPCO and THDC. Thank you.

[Apoorva Bahadur, analyst]

So my second question is on the MOU with the AP government. Can you please share any tentative time lines for this project?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Yes, the time lines of the AP project are broadly splitted in the MOU. So the idea is that about 50% of the capacity will try to do by 2026 and the balance by 2030. So that's the broad idea in the MOU. But that depends on when we get all the clearances and when we actually start to put the shovel in the ground.

[Apoorva Bahadur, analyst]

So we have signed offtake agreements with the customer, sir, for hydrogen and ammonia?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

No, no, that's still under discussion.

[Apoorva Bahadur, analyst]

Okay, fair enough. Sir, second question is like you highlighted that there is a high likelihood or the intention is to do an IPO or a stake sale in the renewable business. So sir, I wanted to understand post any such event will NTPC stand-alone entity be able to borrow and pass on the debt to the renewable entity? Or will it have a separate balance sheet of its own?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

I think it's very simple. It will have a separate balance sheet of it -- it already has.

[Unknown Executive]

See, we have already done the consolidation of business -- in the RE business into NGEL. And the idea is that NGEL and for that matter, NREL, the subsidiary, will be raising funds on the strength of its balance sheet only.

[Apoorva Bahadur, analyst]

Okay, okay. Fair enough, sir. Sir, a couple of housekeeping questions. If you can just share the fixed cost under recovery for [indiscernible] income and PLF incentive numbers.

[Unknown Executive]

Fixed cost recovery is around INR 400 crores this year. and our PLF is around 76% this financial year. It's around 5% more than the last financial year?

[Apoorva Bahadur, analyst]

So incentive, PLF incentive.

[Unknown Executive]

INR 515 crores...

[Unknown Executive]

INR 515 crores.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Subhadip Mitra from Nuvama.

[Subhadip Mitra, analyst]

My first question is with regard to -- if you could tell us what the adjusted PAT number is for fourth quarter and as well as for FY '23.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Yes. The adjusted PAT for Q4 would be INR 4,895 crores. This compares favorably -- if you see the Q4 for financial year '22, which was INR 4,570. So it is a 7% growth over the last year.

[Subhadip Mitra, analyst]

And for the full year?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

For the full year, the figure is INR 16,314 crore compared to last year's figure of INR 14,910 crore, so an increase of approximately 9%.

[Subhadip Mitra, analyst]

Secondly, with regard to the renewable projects, you did mention that we are looking at about 16 gigawatt of projects which are targeted to come by FY '26. If you could throw a little bit more light on the breakup of these projects? What kind of tie-up they already have and so on and so forth?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

See, just to give you a breakup of the whole -- our presence right now. We have 3.3 gigawatts of capacity already commissioned and 4.6 gigawatt is under execution through this PPA available and construction contracts are awarded. Another 12.6 gigawatt is in the pipeline, where we have either won the bids or LOAs received, PPA signed or a joint venture agreement, term sheet has been signed, consent received. So there are different categories that will constitute around 12.6 gigawatts. So that adds to around the 16 gigawatt. And -- from a technology mix point of view, this would be a ground mount of solar tentatively from around 12 to 14 gigawatt. Floating solar would be around 1 gigawatt. Wind, we are targeting around 4 to 5 gigawatt. It will also -- we are also exploring some small hydro. So the combination of all this will constitute. And as we go ahead, we will be able to format.

[Subhadip Mitra, analyst]

Understood. With regard to the Ministry's announcement of bidding out 50 gigawatts of renewable projects in the current fiscal, what's your feel in terms of the on-ground progress? Are we actually seeing a lot more tenders coming up? And what would be the mix of these tenders because what we've been hearing is there are a lot more round-the-clock kind of tendering that is happening with more storage-based bases, if you could help us with that as well.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Mr. Bhargava, the CEO of NGEL will take on this question -- over to Mr. Bhargava.

[Mohit Bhargava, executive]

So Subhadip, detailed breakup on some bid trajectory and the bid numbers has already been issued by the government. 50 gigawatt has been broken up among the 4 companies to bring out the bid. And I think I don't have anything specific to add to what that breakup is. You are right. A big part of that is expected to be RE RTC. And quite so hybrid as well. So the idea is that since that is what the state governments want more, so we need to focus on those kind of bids as well. We are awaiting the final changes in the bid documents as of now to start the bid process. So that should happen soon, and then we can expect [indiscernible] bids.

[Subhadip Mitra, analyst]

Understood. So at least from your perspective, you feel quite confident that, that 11, 12 gigawatt per quarter kind of a target at least has been set out, that seems to be achievable.

[Mohit Bhargava, executive]

Yes, that seems to be achievable in terms of bidding.

[Subhadip Mitra, analyst]

Of course, I guess we'll have to go, set that right? So you start with bidding and then the execution picks up.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Yes. So you know that really [indiscernible]

[Subhadip Mitra, analyst]

Perfect. So lastly, with regard to the module procurement side, -- is there any particular strategy that you are looking at? Because right now, while we understand that yes, imports are allowed and the elements have been pushed, over the long term, many players are getting into their own module manufacturing and otherwise. So what is the strategy that you are looking at overall?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

So we are looking at sourcing modules on longer term. But I mean, to answer your question, which you have been asking earlier also, we are not looking at manufacturing right now. But we do -- we are in the process of finalizing the bid process for long-term focus, maybe 2 or 3 years so that we can tie up on a long-term basis.

[Subhadip Mitra, analyst]

Understood. One last question, if I can slip in. With regard to the RTC projects, where do you see the market moving -- would it be more of battery storage with wind or do you see the pump hydro part of the business really picking up?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

No, right now, we are going with whatever storage is the most cost competitive. So the 1 we have right now is pump storage. Going forward, the bid we have issued for 9 gigawatt [indiscernible]. So it depend on what kind of bids you see, what the numbers are?

Accordingly we keep on deciding.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Bharani Vijayakumar from Avendus Park.

[Bharanidhar Vijayakumar, analyst]

Can you give the equity invested in the operational and renewable projects of 3.2 gigawatts and also equity invested in under-construction projects of [indiscernible] gigawatt and how much more to be invested in those projects?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

I don't have a relative figure, but you can take a ballpark figure as -- you can take a capital expenditure of around INR 5.5 crores, under 20% equity on that. So we gave you a breakup of under-construction as well as commission capacity.

[Bharanidhar Vijayakumar, analyst]

So the INR 5.5 crores will not be applicable for earlier projects, right, like which were older? So that's the reason why I'm asking.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Earlier capacities have come from a different model of feeding tariff. So now going ahead, whatever is the plans -- the indicated numbers are for the forthcoming projects.

[Bharanidhar Vijayakumar, analyst]

Correct, sir. That's why I'm asking for the 3.2 gigawatt operational projects, which are earlier projects and we'll have a different costs.

[Unknown Executive]

Look, broadly, the sense is that barring the very initial projects, which were about higher costs. Most of these projects are now, of course, we are doing close to about INR 1 crores, INR 1.5 crores per megawatt kind of equity. And just to give you a broad sense, NGEL equity base is close to INR 5,000 crores as of now.

[Bharanidhar Vijayakumar, analyst]

Okay. My second question is on the CERC regulation for the next 5-year block. Is there any discussions going on regarding the regulated returns? Would it be revised upward, downward or any sense on that, sir?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Well, it's true that some kind of consultation is happening but it's too early to say any numbers at this present point of time. It would be very speculative.

[Bharanidhar Vijayakumar, analyst]

Okay, sir. My final question is on the -- within -- in the renewable projects, at least my sense for FY '23 is that it was around about 15 gigawatts. So is it possible that in '24, it could -- we could reach 50 gigawatts or could it be much lower than the target? Could it be like, say, 20, 25 gigawatts.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

So I can only answer this on what the government has stated, that they want to have a trajectory of doing about 50 gigawatts of bidding per year for the next 5 years. I can't probably throw light more than that right now.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Dhruv Muchhal.

[Dhruv Muchhal, analyst]

Sir, my first question was on the renewable. Sir, over the last 1, 1.5 years, we have got a decent portfolio of C&I renewables, which includes probably likes of Greenkos and HPCL [indiscernible]. So if you can probably speak something about this, what is our current portfolio in terms of the overall size? How much is the term sheet time? By term sheet, I mean, that means that the projects will surely be done? And how do you see the growth in the next 2, 3 years from this particular segment, this specific segment, sir, please?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

So if you're looking at C&I, and for the moment, I'll also include railways in this. So we've already signed agreements/terms sheet/PPA for about 2.5 gigawatts of RE RTC projects.

[Dhruv Muchhal, analyst]

Okay. And sir, then how does this 12.6 gigawatts equates to the earlier number that you mentioned, 3.3 gigawatts is commissioned, 4.6 gigawatts is under execution and 12.6 gigawatts is in the pipeline.

[Ujjwal Bhattacharya, executive]

Yes. So pipeline includes what has already been signed and under planning for where we've already either issued the tenders or we are in the process of issuing the tenders. That's probably the overall thing. So -- what we are working on is a total pipeline of about 20 gigawatts, comprising of 3.3 gigawatt operational, 4.6 gigawatts under construction and balance 12.6 gigawatts is in planning and implementation is under progress.

[Dhruv Muchhal, analyst]

And of this 2.5 gigawatt -- 2.5 gigawatts for which you have signed term sheet and everything is very...

[Ujjwal Bhattacharya, executive]

Okay. So let me make it clear. 2.5 gigawatt of RTC power actually corresponds to close to around 8 gigawatts, 8.5 gigawatts of actual capacity on the ground because you have to set up solar and wind and storage to supply at this level. So when I say I signed term sheet for 2.5 gigawatt RTC, I will actually develop close to 8 gigawatts of solar plus wind and storage to meet this requirement.

[Dhruv Muchhal, analyst]

And sir, how do you see growth in this segment in the next 2, 3 years? I mean some color that you can provide in terms of new customers that you're looking at, how you are looking to target new set of customers?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

So we are definitely looking at C&I. This is the C&I and once people have known that we have been able to sign on, on large deals, and we have the ability to execute large deals. So I'm sure people are getting the message. We are already having the discussions with others there. But we're not at the right time to disclose the name and the numbers, but we have -- we are having discussions with a lot of other people.

[Dhruv Muchhal, analyst]

And the second question, sir, was on the financials. So if I do the consol minus stand-alone numbers, the stand-alone, the subsidiary, the remaining -- you get the subsidiary numbers, the numbers look extremely low. I mean the revenue and EBITDA has declined significantly versus the Q-o-Q levels -- I mean, the 2Q, 3Q levels. So sir, is there any significant one-off in the subsidiaries or JVs.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

See, the only factor which suppress it is, this year we have been able to get more dividend compared to last...

[Dhruv Muchhal, analyst]

I was seeing before the other income. So I'm excluding the other income, it is the sales numbers and the EBITDA number -- while depreciation, interest was all similar, but the other numbers are very low.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Can you repeat your question once again, so....

[Dhruv Muchhal, analyst]

So I mean looking at the subsidiary performance on the EBITDA level. So for that, I have done console minus stand-alone EBITDA, and the numbers look lower than what you have been doing historically. I understand there was this Nabinagar numbers have moved to stand-alone, but even adjusting for that, the numbers look low.

[Unknown Executive]

See, 1 factor, which I see here is -- in respect of [ LPSC ] everywhere...

[Dhruv Muchhal, analyst]

So, no. I'll take it offline from...

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Yes, yes. Probably we'll analyze it better and give you a very cogent explanation.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Nikhil Nigania from Alliance Bernstein.

[Nikhil Nigania, analyst]

I just had questions regarding the contract with Greenko for the RTC 1,300 megawatt. My first question was, would it be possible to share the tariffs and the tenure of the contract signed with them?

[Unknown Executive]

Probably not trying to share the tariff number. Tenure is 25 years.

[Nikhil Nigania, analyst]

The second related question was green hydrogen costs are expected to come down in the coming years. So does the term sheet allow the buyer to exit at some point in the future or is it binding for this 25 years?

[Unknown Executive]

No, it's binding for 20 years and review at the end of 20 years. So in 20 years, there's no effect.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securities.

[Unknown Analyst]

So basically, I wanted to understand what are the new capacity addition plans in the next couple of years? And what is the pipeline that we have right now?

And by thermal pipeline, I mean, thermal tenderings or the new plans that we have ordered -- the ordered new plants.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Well, as far as thermal is concerned, we are broadly targeting around 6 gigawatt. When I say 6 gigawatt, I'm leaving out Talcher where the LOA has already been placed -- 1320 megawatts.

So you can add another 6,120 megawatts, which will comprise of 5 different projects, mostly on the expansion. This would -- we are expecting that much of this would be awarded by the end of the current fiscal.

[Unknown Analyst]

In FY '24 itself, most of the orders?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Yes.

[Unknown Analyst]

Okay. And sir, the other question is, can you just give me the revenue EBITDA and PAT for the entire renewable portfolio for FY '23?

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

We can give it to you separately.

[Operator]

That was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

[Jaikumar Srinivasan, executive]

Thank you very much on behalf of NTPC and my colleagues here for participating in this earnings conference and raising some very pertinent questions. Wherever we have showed to provide information separately, we'll be doing that at the earliest. Thank you so much.

[Operator]

Thank you. On behalf of JM Financial, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.