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NTPC Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the 4Q FY '22 Earnings Conference Call of NTPC Limited hosted by Batlivala & Karani Securities India Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rajesh Majumdar from Batlivala & Karani Securities India Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yes. Good evening, and a warm welcome to everyone. We have with us the NTPC management to present to us the Q4 and FY '22 earnings call headed by Mr. A.K. Gautam, Director of Finance. I shall hand over the proceedings to Mr. A.K. Gautam and then he can take us forward from here. Over to you, Mr. Gautam.
Thank you, Rajesh. Yes, a very good evening to everybody. I, A.K. Gautam, Director of Finance, welcome all of you to the Q4 FY '22 Con Call of NTPC Limited. NTPC continues to deliver phenomenal performance and support the nation by ensuring uninterrupted supply of power.
I have with me Shri. Ramesh Babu V., Director, Operations; Shri. Chandan Kumar Mondol, Director, Commercial. I also have with me other key members of the NTPC team. Today, the company has announced the audited financial results for the FY '22 along with financial results for Q4 FY '22. The key performance highlights for the financial year and quarter ended 31st March 2022 have also been disclosed on both the stock exchanges.
Operational highlights of FY '22. During FY '22, NTPC has added 3,372 megawatt capacity to its portfolio, commercial capacity of 4,032 megawatts, including 502 megawatts capacity from renewable sources was added in FY '22. The commercial capacity of NTPC has now become 54,597 megawatt on a stand-alone basis and 68,302 megawatts for the group as on 31 March 2022. NTPC Group generated 361 billion units and recorded highest ever annual generation in FY '22 as compared to 314 billion units in FY '22, an increase of 15%.
NTPC stand-alone growth generation in FY '22 is 299 billion units as compared to 271 billion units in the corresponding previous year, registering an increase of 10%. NTPC Group recorded highest day generation of 1.22 billion units on 16 March 2022.
During FY '22, PLF of coal-based stations of NTPC was 70.74% against the national average of 58.76%, thereby maintaining a spread of almost 12%. For FY 2022, 3 coal stations of NTPC with Korba, Vindhyachal and Rihand were among the top 10 performing stations in the country in terms of PLF.
NTPC Group being a leader in the power sector has a strong commitment towards renewable energy and would be targeting RE capacity of 60 gigawatts by FY '32. NTPC has diversified into producing energy through cleaner and greener sources such as hydro, wind, solar and other green hydrogen solutions. Company has also forayed into a variety of business areas, including fuel cells, e-Mobility and waste-to-energy. NTPC Group has already commissioned 1,852 megawatts of RE projects under EPC mode till FY '22.
3,440 megawatts of RE projects, including ongoing projects of NTPC REL are [ presently ] under construction. Further builds of 2,830 megawatts have been [ borne ]. During the period, we have suffered losses due to grid restrictions and fuel supply. The generation loss due to grid restrictions in FY '22 was 97 billion units as compared to 122 billion units in the previous year. The generation loss on account of fuel supply constraint was 7 billion units in FY '22.
Now I will touch upon status of fuel supply. During the FY '22 materialization of coal against ACQ was 92.83% as against 86.72% in FY '21. Coal supply during FY '22 was 195.63 million metric tonnes, including 2.47 million metric ton of imported coal. The coal supply during the corresponding previous year was 170.24 million metric tonnes, including 0.92 million metric tonnes of imported coal. NTPC has registered a growth of over 27% in the production from its captive coal mines. Total coal production of 14.02 million metric tonne was reported during FY '22 as against 11 million metric tonne in FY '21. Cumulative expenditure of INR 7,963.66 crores has been incurred on the development of coal mines till 31 March 2022.
Now I will update you on various other financial activities. Total income of NTPC for FY '22 is INR 1,20,042.43 crore as against corresponding previous year total of INR 1,03,552.71 crores, registering an increase of 15.92%.
PAT for FY '22 is INR 16,111.42 crore as against INR 13,769.52 crore in FY '21, registering an increase of 17.01%. Total income of the group for FY '22 is INR 1,34,994.31 crore as against corresponding previous year total income of INR 1,15,546.83 crore, registering an increase of 16.83%.
PAT for the group for FY '22 is INR 16,960.29 crore as against corresponding previous year PAT of INR 14,969.40 crore, registering an increase of 13.30%. The performance of our JV and subsidiaries has been outstanding in FY '22. Our subsidiaries have earned a profit of INR 1,946.78 crore in FY '22 as compared to INR 1,737.60 crore in corresponding previous year, registering an increase of 12%. The share of NTPC in JV profit has increased by 49% from INR 683.87 crore in FY '21 to INR 1,020.13 crore in FY 2022.
During the FY '22, we have accounted dividend income of INR 2,134.34 crore from our subsidiaries and joint venture companies as against INR 1,274.19 crore [ received against ] during FY '21. For FY '22, the Board has recommended final dividend of INR 3 per share at a share price of INR 10 per share, subject to the approval of shareholders in the [ ensuing ] General Meeting.
As you are aware, interim dividend for FY '22 at the rate of 40% of the [ paid of share ] capital, that is INR 4 per share has already been paid in February 2022. The regulated equity as on 31st March '22 for NTPC stand-alone and group was INR 70,890 crore and INR 91,054 crore, respectively. We expect our regulated equity to grow at a double-digit CAGR over the coming years based on the capacity already under construction, making NTPC a compelling investment [ pick ].
Gross block and capital work in progress of NTPC Limited. The gross block has increased by INR 26,833.54 crore to INR 2,38,390.91 crores as at 31 March 2022. And on group level, gross block has increased by INR 35,431.48 crore to INR 3,08,125.18 crore, mainly on account of capitalization of new units.
CWIP stood at INR 68,598.66 crore as of 31 March 2022 as compared to INR 75,343.60 crore as at 31 March 2021. At the group level, CWIP stood at INR 91,025.21 crore as of 31 March 2022 compared to INR 97,404.16 crores as at 31 March 2021.
The ratio of gross block to CWIP is [ 3.48 ] in FY 2022 as compared to the 2.81 in FY '21. We expect growth to continue further forward and believe the turnaround from CWIP to gross block would be quick work because of greater mix of renewable capacity having a shorter gestation period.
Now fund mobilization. During the FY '22, the company has signed a syndicated term loan of USD 750 million with a door-to-door maturity of 10 years on 25 March 2022 with the consortium of banks. The loan is first [indiscernible] secured overnight financing [ date based ] floating rate of loan. During FY '22, NTPC Renewable Energy Limited has signed a term loan of INR 500 crore with Bank of India and received a sanction for total term loan of INR 2,070 crore. Average cost of borrowing for FY '22 is 5.94% as compared to 6.24% in FY '21.
CapEx in FY '22. We have incurred a CapEx of INR 21,035.87 crore on a stand-alone basis and total group CapEx of INR 34,490.55 crore. The capital outlay for FY '23 on a stand-alone basis has been estimated at INR 22,454 crore for NTPC.
Now certain highlights about the commercial function of the company. During FY '22, NTPC has realized INR 1,16,148 crore, which is almost -- more than 100% of the build amount.
During FY '22, INR 8,800.32 crore bill were discounted with the banks as against INR 18,323.60 crore discounted during FY '21. Further, the trade receivables are maintained at a level of less than 45 days of sales.
Further, I would like to list a few other highlights. NTPC Renewable Energy Limited has obtained the highest domestic credit rating of AAA within 1 year of its incorporation. NTPC Renewable Energy Limited has been listed -- have been issued letter of intent from Government of Rajasthan for development of 10 gigawatt RE parks public projects in Rajasthan. Also, it has signed a joint venture agreement with Damodar Valley Corporation to set up ultra mega renewable energy power park and projects on [ reservoir ] and land owned by DVC.
This joint venture agreement marks the preliminary step for the formation of joint venture companies with equity participation from NTPC Renewable Energy Limited and DVC in the ratio of 51-49. NTPC has signed an MOU with [ Energy Vault Incorporation USA ] for developing sustainable grid scale gravity energy storage solutions. The objective of the MOU is to collaborate and formalize a long-term strategic partnership for deployment of Energy Vault's gravity-based energy storage technology and software solutions. The technology also offers beneficial utilization of coal ash for manufacturing of composite blocks for Energy Vault's gravity-based energy storage system. Accordingly, this collaboration will promote a circular economy.
NTPC is an innovative initiative that provided the technology to [ fire ] the waste sludge at National Capital Power Station Unit 4 boiler at Dadri. This is the first of its kind initiative in India by NTPC. The main initiative technological solutions shall be a new step for converting STP sludge into energy in an environmentally friendly way. The technology shall help in reducing CO2 emissions and, at the same time, make available a locally made alternate biofuel for [ way less ]. With the continued focus on clean environment, NTPC has taken up initiative of blending of green hydrogen in PNG network of GGL that is Gujarat Gas Limited at NTPC Kawas.
A formal agreement between the 2 companies has been signed. Green hydrogen will be produced by using electricity from the existing 1 megawatt floating solar project of NTPC Kawas. This will be blended with PNG in a predetermined peak proportion and will be used for cooking applications in NTPC Kawas township.
Initially, the percentage of hydrogen blending in the PNG shall be around 5% and after successful completion, it shall be further increased. As an environmental management initiative, Flue Gas Desulphurisation Systems are under various stages of implementation and tendering for our coal-based stations.
NVVN, our trading subsidy, transacted 24 billion units during the FY '22 as against 19 billion units during FY '21, registering a growth of 31%. This is the highest-ever trading volume achieved by NVVN.
NTPC has been bestowed with the India's Best Workplaces in Manufacturing 2022 top 30, recognition by the Great Place to Work Institute for the fifth year in a row. NTPC has been conferred excellence in prestigious CII-ITC Sustainability Award 2021 in corporate social responsibility category, twice in a row. We have also won the ATD BEST Award 2022. These were some of the highlights I wanted to share before we begin the question-and-answer session. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit K. from DAM Capital.
Am I audible?
Yes, yes.
Yes, you are.
Congratulations on a good set of numbers. So my first question is, where are we in the journey of monetization of our renewables portfolio? And are we reasonably confident of completing some transaction in this fiscal?
Okay. As you know that we have already created wholly owned subsidiary of NTPC Limited, that is NTPC Green Energy Limited. Under its umbrella, the companies like NTPC Vidyut Vyapar Nigam, NTPC Renewable Energy Limited will be there. In this company, post getting clarification from the Ministry of Power regarding taxation issues, renewable assets, which are lying in NTPC will be transferred to this company.
And on getting transferred to this company, we will be going for this -- either the IPO directly in the market or through some strategic investor. Yes. We are planning to have certain amount of monetization during the FY '22-'23.
Okay. Director of Commercial just confirmed that NVVN will not be under this umbrella.
Understood, sir. My second question is given the supply-demand situation, do you think there'll be some revival in thermal capacity addition and we will have some role to play in the interim till the time the energy transition goes through?
Okay. I will ask my [ ED DPM ] to please address this question.
Yes. We are going to add approximately another 5,000 megawatt of power in the days to come to augment the power requirement of [ the country ].
Sir, my mic was...
Are you there?
Sir, my question was are we going to see some sort of revival in thermal capacity addition given the shortages? Do you think the -- we need to -- we'll need to put in some more capacity in medium term?
Okay. I think he has already given your question an answer that we will be going to set up another 6 gigawatt of capacity in respect of thermal power stations.
Is it blue or it will be pure thermal capacity?
It will be brown thermal capacity addition.
I think it's carbon capture [indiscernible] also. Yes. We are planning to -- we have just gotten a tender to add 2 into 660-megawatt at our [indiscernible] power system. So that is one that is for certain that, that is going to come. And it is thermal capacity only.
And apart from that, let me update Singrauli is 1,600 megawatt, Lara 1,600 megawatt and Darlipali 660 megawatt.
The next question is from the line of Puneet Gulati from HSBC.
My first question is with respect to the quarter-on-quarter improvement in profitability, while the capacity addition was limited to about 300 megawatts. Can you talk about what has really driven this growth?
I could not get -- can you repeat your question, please?
Yes. I'm saying your quarter-on-quarter profitability has been quite impressive, INR 41 billion going up to INR 56 billion on a stand-alone basis. While the capacity addition for this quarter was only about 294 or 300 megawatt. What has driven this earnings growth?
Actually, you are talking about the profit after tax, no?
Yes. Yes.
You know that in the previous quarter, we made certain tax adjustments under the Vivad Se Vishwas Scheme which has led to a reduced taxation of around INR 2,000 crores in the previous year.
In addition, I would like to add 1 more point, the capacity addition that you are talking about being added in the fourth quarter, we also have to take in account the capacity added during the entire year, if you are comparing quarter-to-quarter.
And also, there are certain CRC orders which have been received during the quarter -- current quarter.
Okay. And what would have been the impact of those?
I think impact you can -- just a minute, please. Quarter-to-quarter previous year sales is around INR 821 crores. Yes. That is there -- other items you can obtain from [indiscernible]
Okay. The second is also, if I look at the stand-alone profit versus the consolidated profit, it seems the subsidiaries were a negative number. Can you help clarify what really happened in this quarter?
It is mainly because of in the stand-alone financial statement, we accounted for dividend which on a consolidated basis was eliminated.
Okay. Got it. What would be the profitability by subsidiaries otherwise?
Just a minute, please. So profit after tax from the subsidiary companies is INR 1,946.77 crore as against INR 772.53 crore in the corresponding previous period -- sorry, INR 1,737.60 crore in the previous quarter -- previous year.
The next question is from the line of Rahul Modi from ICICI Securities.
Sir, a couple of questions. Sir, what would be the bidding pipeline, which you are expecting over the next 6 to 12 months in renewables that would come up? And secondly, how is the solar module market currently because I believe now with [ REL ] coming in, we've got limited suppliers, so how do you see the supplies panning out?
Rahul, Mohit will answer this question.
Yes, Rahul. Bidding pipeline is actually guided more by SECI and MNRE rather than by us. So our expectation is that they might go ahead with bidding of around at least 10 gigawatts in the balance period of the year, if not more.
On the solar module side, yes, the supply is constrained because all these factors have come together elements of [indiscernible] and overall inflation in the prices. So there is inflationary pressures there. But everyone is hoping for some kind of grandfathering or something else, which will relieve this so that the model [indiscernible]
Sir, is it causing any delays as such or do you think you are more or less comfortable in terms of time line?
Some of our existing projects will face a little bit of delays, but not only because of modules, that's also because of JV issues.
Right, right, right. Perfect, sir. That's very helpful. Just last question on broadly on coal availability, which obviously, we're reading a lot in the headlines, sir, how is our coal availability currently and on the imports that we are targeting?
Mr. Babu, Director of Operations, will be...
I think right now, we have around 12 days coal available with us. And as per the government guidance, we're also importing coal. We've already placed some orders and some coal has already started coming to the ports, and we are shipping them to our stations.
Sir, what would be the price of imported coal, just to understand the trend that's coming?
Price of the import coal is actually dependent on the index at the time of loading. So it varies, when the index goes high then we need to pay more. If index is less, we need to pay less. It is linked to the index. So right now, the index is $140.
The next question is from the line of Subhadip Mitra from JM Financial.
Sir, my first question is if you could please tell us what is the adjusted PAT number for fourth quarter and full year FY '22?
If you -- for the fourth quarter, it is INR 4,559.98 crore as against INR 3,831.01 crore in the corresponding previous quarter.
Okay. And for the full year, sir?
Full year, it could -- it is INR 14,700.99 crore as against INR 14,218.07 crores.
So it's INR 14,218 crore for the last year versus INR 14,700 crore for the current year?
Correct. INR 14,701 crore.
Okay. Understood. Sir, secondly, just to get an update on the capacity addition that we are looking at. I think if I remember the numbers correctly, as per the last call, we are looking at about close to 4 gigawatt of thermal additions in FY '23 and a similar number for '24 with maybe another 1.2 gigawatt of renewables. If you can just give us an update as to how much you're seeing getting added in '23 and '24? And if possible, split that between thermal and renewable.
Yes. Actually, we already told that we'll be adding approximately 6 gigawatt for thermal. And also that for the -- your question, which is pertaining to '22-'23 specifically, we'll be adding 5 gigawatts and for '23-'24, we'll be adding approximately 6 gigawatts.
So if I heard you correctly, sir, you're saying that we are adding about 5 gigawatt in FY '23 and 6 gigawatt in FY '24? If possible, if you can split this up between the thermal and the renewable part? How much of FY '23, 5 gigawatt is thermal and renewable and same for '24?
Yes, in this financial year '22-'23, which have 5 gigawatts, the renewables will be approximately 1.5 gigawatts. And for '23-'24, it will be -- the renewables will be approximately 950 gigawatts -- 950 megawatt [indiscernible].
Right. So 950 megawatt in FY '24 and 1.5 gigawatt in FY '23, correct?
Yes.
Okay. Understood. Lastly, a question with regard to 1 of the earlier questions where we talked about some of the renewable projects, which may see delays because of [ GIB ] issues and also because of the modules. Is it possible, sir, to quantify that how much of our capacities are getting impacted by GIB?
As of now, Subhadip, I think roughly 900 megawatt is impacted by GIB because we have to get the permission from the committee appointed by the Honorable Supreme Court, so we're in that process, that's about 900 megawatts.
So sir, is this 900 megawatt included in any of the targets for FY '23 or '24 or these are not included?
Yes, yes, yes. That is included. In fact, the FY '24 number was actually higher. But anyway, so that is included in this chart. We are expecting to get the clearance for the next few months.
Understood. So any case there is, let's say, a worst-case scenario of further delay that happens with regard to the Supreme Court ruling, then the '24 target number could get impacted. Am I right in understanding that?
No, I don't get it because if there's a delay, applications have already been poured. So if delay happens, these capacities get shifted into next year. '24 doesn't seem to be impacted.
Yes. So maybe I'm not understanding it correctly. I just wanted to understand that this 900 megawatt or 950 megawatt that we are saying the renewables which we are targeting for FY '24, does that number get impacted in case these projects get delayed further?
No, no. So it is, again, speculation, Subhadip, because when we get the approval and all these things, as of now, these numbers are what about the projects which are [ not affected ]. Anything which is being awarded in this year will obviously either come next year or the year after that. So that is expected not to be impacted by the GIB So this 900 megawatt would largely be -- we expect that mostly to be commissioned this year only.
Okay. Okay. Understood. So these are targeted basically for FY '22.
The next question is from the line of Anuj Upadhyay from HDFC Securities.
Sir, 1 clarification. The number which you quoted at 5 gigawatt, 6 gigawatt capacity addition. This is on a consol basis and not the stand-alone. Am I right, sir?
Yes. Yes, please.
And sir, any fixed cost under recovery? Can you please quantify the fixed cost under recovery which we had booked for the current fiscal? And was this largely because of the fuel supply issue or some other [ thing ]?
Yes. During the current financial year, it is INR 453 crores as against INR 600 crores in the previous year.
Okay. And 2 things, sir, again. One, the status on the [indiscernible] so where exactly we are positioned when we expect the project to get commissioned out there in the phase 1, firstly? And secondly, you also mentioned about the 10 gigawatt of RE, which -- where we have signed LOI from the Rajasthan. So any time line by when we expect to commission? Would it happen in a phase-wise and for what period of time that 10 gigawatt would get commissioned?
So [indiscernible] we intend to start the work in the next 1.5 months or so and the time line is to commission close to around 2, 2.5 gigawatt in the next 30 months. That's the time line as of now. And [indiscernible] balance capacity -- you got it?
Sir, 2, 2.5 gigawatt over the next 30 months, right?
Yes, yes. About 2, 2.5 gigawatts in the next 30 months, and we intend to start the work in the next 1, 1.5 months. The Rajasthan [ park ] is still under discussion. In fact, we've had a couple of meetings with the Rajasthan officials. And they have started identification of the land which they will offer to us. So that is still too premature to talk about in terms of the capacity [indiscernible] there.
Okay. Fine sir. One final clarification on this Rajasthan, the 10-gigawatt deal, sir. Does this also fall under the area where we are facing GIB issues or it's altogether different land parcel?
No, no. I think you hit the nail on the head. That is exactly the reason Rajasthan government is taking a bit more time to identify the land because they don't want it to be covered under the GIB criteria.
The next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital.
My first question is for Mohit, sir, on renewables. Earlier, you had expressed that NTPC would have a 15 gigawatt renewable capacity by FY '25. What is the scale down and realistic target now? And if you could also give us the number on the operational [ added ] capacity of NTPC today? What is in stand-alone, what is in subsidiaries? And what is the total size of the portfolio, including under construction and under implementation capacity?
Too many questions in 1 go. So I am not sure whether I remember all of them, but okay, so we have -- I think it was already mentioned by Director of Finance in his opening remarks. We have a 1,852 megawatt which is under operation today. In fact, that number got increased by 35 megawatt just today because we started to work on a [indiscernible] capacity. That is the number we have today.
Your initial question regarding 15 gigawatt, obviously, this discussion was when the impact of COVID did not get factored in. To that extent, we expect there to be a delay of about 12 months in achieving this capacity because there have been headwinds in terms of getting the work done and all these issues have been there. But we are not significantly delaying for what we had stated upfront. And what was the third part?
Yes. What is the total size of your renewable portfolio today? So we know the operational added capacity, what is the size of the under-construction portfolio right now and the under implementation of whatever you call it?
Yes. So operational capacity is 18 -- under construction, where the work is already in progress is about 3,400. We have about 2,800 megawatt which is under [indiscernible] So that is pipeline as of [indiscernible]
Okay. 2,800 megawatt [indiscernible] And sir, you had mentioned that there was this 15 gigawatt sort of expression of interest for module sources. How has that progressed and has that got settled because the module prices have been elevated and there are uncertainties?
Yes, you're absolutely right. We had [indiscernible] prices have been very high. So we, in fact, intended to go ahead with the long-term sourcing of the modules. So that's something which is held back as of now because we are waiting for some more normalization in the module prices because even the bidders are not very confident to offer a price which they will be able to hold for some time.
Fair enough. And then it was mentioned earlier that 6 gigawatt of new coal-based capacity is going to get added, I'm just wondering that with so much global opposition to addition of new coal-based capacity, which banks in India are going to fund the loan for these projects? Overseas banks, I understand overseas funding will be very difficult for new thermal projects.
I think we will get the funding, that is [indiscernible].
Sir, what will be the source of funding? I'm just trying to understand.
Source of funding would be from domestic sources, and we will also try for bonds from these international markets.
Okay. Okay. Last question. What was the late payment surcharge in FY '22 versus FY '21? And what was the PLF incentive in FY '22 versus fY '21.
Surcharge in FY '22 is INR 754 crores as against INR 2,316 crores in the corresponding previous year. And if you want the quarter numbers also, it is -- during the current quarter, it is INR 161 crores as against INR 620 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year.
Okay. And PLF incentives?
Incentive is almost similar in the year INR 386, INR 399. INR 386 in current year as against INR 399 in the previous year. In quarter also almost similar, INR 69 in current quarter versus INR 45 in the previous quarter.
Sir, what is the figure of overdue receivable at the end of FY '22? That's my last question.
Mondol Saheb, overdue receivables.
Just a minute. Overdue as on 31 March. Yes, it is -- as on 31 March, it was INR 4,274 crore.
Okay. And this figure was about, what, INR 60 billion as of FY '21?
Last year, it was INR [ 5,616 ] crores.
The next question is from the line of Deepika Mundra from JPMorgan.
Sir, just 2 questions. Firstly, on captive mining. What is the outlook in terms of potential for next few years in terms of output and CapEx? And secondly, for the gas-based power plants, can you walk us through the outlook for those in terms of regulated equity recognition?
Captive mining, I can only tell that last year, our captive production was 14.1 million tonnes. And FY '22-'23, we have a target of producing approximately 26 million tonnes, which is more than 80% increase in the capacity.
And definitely, FY '24, right now, I will not be able to tell you how much we'll be doing it because we are in the process of awarding a new contract, new MDOs to our mines like Kerandari and Talaipalli. And if it is awarded, definitely, it will be more than this capacity of 26 million tonne that we are planning this year. And what was your second question?
Gas base.
Gas base. Yes. Gas base today, right now, gas price is very high. So definitely, it will be very difficult for running the gas tanks because most of their ECR may not be sustainable. It may not come under this [indiscernible] dispatch. But still, we will continue to have the fixed charges because except for few capacity which some of the DISCOMs have already surrendered, and that capacity is approximately 1,000 megawatts out of the total capacity of 6,000 megawatt capacity, 1,000 megawatt has been surrendered by various DISCOMs.
But we are trying to allocate this capacity to other DISCOMs if they are willing. And probably, government is also going to take certain [indiscernible] because of the power shortage in the current scenario and there -- our government is already approached GAIL to arrange the best possible gas rate on which I think most likely that [indiscernible] is going to run this capacity on emergency basis for the grid security.
Understood, sir. And sir, would you be able to give us the total revenue for the renewable megawatt projects, which have been operational so far for the past year?
I think right now, it is not available. You can obtain this information from Aditya Dar separately.
The next question is from the line of Aniket Mittal from SBI Mutual.
Just a couple of questions for my side. Sir, firstly, just to understand on this incremental brownfield capacity addition that we're doing in Singrauli, Lara and Darlipali. What stages of discussion are we in? Has like any of the DISCOMs come forth to ask for you for these incremental capacities? And have you tied up PPAs for these incremental capacities?
The -- this addition we have already indicated to you that 6 gigawatt we are making. And so far as PPA is concerned for Singrauli and Lara, we are already having the consent for the PPA. We're already have it.
Okay. And who are the DISCOMs with which we are doing this incremental...
In case of Singrauli, it is Northern Region and in case of Lara, it Western Region.
So we've got a go ahead in terms of the PPAs. And these would be 25-year PPAs?
PPA will not be a problem, but there are other -- I mean we still have to have the environment clearance in case of Lara. I think Singrauli [indiscernible]
already available, yes.
Well, not in terms of fuel cells, I was asking like in terms of Singrauli and Lara. So you're saying that the PPAs we've got to go ahead from the DISCOMS and these would be 25-year PPAs?
It will be 25-year PPAs, definitely.
Okay. Okay. And so as per your estimates, sir, when do you see Talcher, Singrauli and Lara coming on board? Any rough time lines that you have in mind, like when you can set up this incremental...
Talcher and Singrauli is done. I think...
Investment approval is happening about August and Singrauli [indiscernible]
Sorry, I could not hear you, could you repeat that?
What he is telling that in case of Talcher, it would be 1,320 megawatt power station, that investment approval likely to happen in August. And thereafter, for completion, it will be taking 4 years' time.
Okay. And in case of...
As far as Singrauli is concerned that NIT is yet to take place. So that NIT -- Singrauli and Lara, they are under continuing -- I mean, active discussion.
Okay. They're still under discussion. Okay. Fair enough. And 1 question on the CapEx front. So if I look at the NTPC Renewable Energy entity in itself, could you tell me what would be the CapEx for NTPC RE over the next 3 years and split that up between your solar capacity and green hydrogen, please?
I think what we can share with you right now is the tentative numbers for the next year because beyond that, a lot of things are linked to the projects which are requiring investment approval and the working of [ phase ]. So next year, tentatively, we are looking at a number of about INR 8,000 crores for the [ RE ].
INR 8,000 crores for...
Next year, meaning this -- the current fiscal.
Okay. And just to understand on the green hydrogen front because there are some pilot projects that we have started, I think, undertaking in ordering at a couple of our plants, I think Simhadri as well were also I think looking to do at one of our other plants as well. So if you could just highlight what is the sort of CapEx that you're looking to put over there? Any other incremental plans that we are trying to develop this on a pilot basis?
Okay. Plans. So you're right. We talked about Simhadri earlier. Other one was mentioned in the opening remarks by our Director Finance that we have signed an agreement with Gujarat Gas to blend hydrogen in natural gas, which they will supply us [ pipe ] natural gas in the Kawas township of NTPC.
Then the other pilot, which is already underway is at [indiscernible] where we are doing green hydrogen plus carbon capture and convert that into green methanol, so that's the third pilot, which is -- of which partly the work has started.
Fourth, of course, is the mobility pilot, for which we intend to place the orders in the next 2 months, yes, in the next 2 months or so for the hydrogen buses as well as the hydrogen filling stations. So that as of now is a [ broad thing ].
Okay. Fair enough. And in general, what would be the CapEx related to these pilot projects right now?
These are basically pilot projects and CapEx numbers, of course, we can compile it separately and maybe [ Aditya can ]...
Yes, yes, it can be given separately.
The next question is from the line of Swarnim Maheshwari from Edelweiss.
Sir, you mentioned about 6 gigawatt of brownfield capacity. What would be the likely CapEx over here?
It will be around INR 60,000 crores, around INR 60,000 crores.
INR 60,000 crores. Okay. Sir, that works out to be close to INR 10 crore per megawatt. But since these are brownfield, what is it actually causing such a high cost? Because I believe greenfield is more closer to INR 8 crores to INR 10 crores.
Yes, yes. It is because we have also to clear the areas in the greenfield project to make them available for generation of new power house, we have to ship certain assets also. But I told you approximate expenditure. It is not necessary, it will be 10 gigawatt. It can be 9 also -- 8 or 9. And they will involve FGD.
Yes. So 1 is FGD CapEx. Okay. Okay. And sir, safe to say that all of them will be on the regulator also -- only regulated, right?
Yes.
The next question is from the line of Abhineet Anand from Emkay Global.
Two things. First, I wanted to know on the thermal side, what is the amount of capacity that is going out of PPA in '23, '24, '25 or a cumulative number, if you can give in the next few years?
Well, I think at some point of time, DISCOM wanted that they will be exiting. Now they are asking, approaching us for the capacity, if anything is available. But unfortunately, NTPC does not have a single megawatt available to be given to anybody. So we don't think another 4, 5 years, there will be any question of exiting around capacity by any DISCOM.
The gas power plant that you talked about, I think, 1,000 out of the 5,000, 6,000 that we have, those can be at risk?
Yes, risk is only that we may not be getting the corresponding ROE from that -- those station. Nothing -- otherwise, ROE [indiscernible] [ very minimal ]. These are all old power station already. We have recovered the depreciation, et cetera. So assets -- government is also rethinking how to run these gas-based power plants. So they are in active discussions.
Sure. And secondly, sir, on the FGD side, majority of the orders have been given. If you can give a ballpark number in the next 1, 2 years when everything -- all this [indiscernible] being installed, what could be the incremental CapEx from NTPC side just on FGD that would have been done?
Just a minute. For FGD CapEx, we are targeting approximately INR 3,400 crores for this financial year and approximately INR 4,000 crores for the next financial year.
So I mean, these are the CapEx that you would be doing, right?
Yes.
So what I was also trying to understand combined -- cumulatively, what is the spend on FGD that we would have done because that will then come under our regulated part, right?
It is around -- it is INR 29,330 crores.
And all this by '25, I presume, will be spent, right?
Yes.
Yes.
Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Rajesh Majumdar for closing comments.
So thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for a very interactive session. And thank you to the management of NTPC for conducting this session for us. I wish all the participants goodbye, and thank you once again for attending the NTPC Q4 and FY '22 Earnings Call. Thank you very much, everyone.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of Batlivala & Karani Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.