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Newgen Software Technologies Ltd
Earnings Call Analysis
Q2-2024 Analysis
Newgen Software Technologies Ltd
The company is operating in a large and growing market, with less than 1% market share, indicating massive growth potential. New use cases in sectors like banking and insurance are driving market expansion beyond traditional ECM BPM growth rates.
Specific guidance on revenue growth to margin correlation is not provided. However, the company is focusing on achieving growth targets through smart investments and a keen eye on profitability.
14 new logos were acquired this quarter, with 2 significant deals through GSIs, demonstrating effective customer base expansion and diversification.
A reduction in DSO from 111 days last year to 105 this quarter indicates an improvement in cash collection processes and overall operational efficiency.
Opening of a New York office and an emphasis on marketing spend in the U.S. market suggest a strategic investment in growth, with the aim to keep overhead costs manageable.
Management encourages further communication for any additional questions, reflecting a commitment to transparency and investor relations.
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q2 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call of Newgen Software Technologies Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Ms. Deepti Chugh from Newgen Software Technologies Limited. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Thank you. Good evening, everyone. I'm Deepti Mehra Chugh, Investor Relations Newgen Software Technologies Limited, and I welcome you all to the Q2 FY '24 results of the company. Joining with me today on the call is the management, Mr. Diwakar Nigam, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Varadarajan, Whole-Time Director; Mr. Virender Jeet, Chief Executive Officer; and Mr. Arun Gupta, the Chief Financial Officer.
Before we move on to the discussion, let me highlight that this call will contain certain forward-looking statements concerning Newgen's future business prospects and profitability, which are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, and the actual results could materially vary from the forward-looking statements.
Past performance may not be indicative of future performance. The company does not undertake to make any announcements in case any of these forward-looking statements become materially incorrect in future or update any forward-looking statements made from time to time by or on behalf of the company. For further details, you may please refer to the Investor Relations section of our website.
I would now hand over to Mr. Nigam for presentation on the results, which will be followed by a Q&A.
Good afternoon, and thank you all for joining us on our Q2 FY '24 financial results call. We are pleased to share that we are making significant strides towards our long-term vision. We continue to build upon the business momentum with fourth consecutive high-growth quarter now. In Q2, we witnessed revenue of INR 293 crores, up 30% Y-o-Y with robust growth across most geographies.
In the recent months, we have witnessed a significant pickup in the market activity in digital banking space across different geographies. Banks are seeing enhanced business opportunity across the lending and trade finance space, that are our sweet spots. As a result, we have been making deeper penetration through our digital lending platform in the banking ecosystem. We are becoming a preferred and trusted platform for leading banks for accelerating their lending business and simultaneously reducing the associated risk.
We have received a number of high-value orders during the quarter for our digital business platform. Apart from this, during the quarter, we have also witnessed growth in order intake for the Trade Finance solution. We expect this market momentum to continue in the coming years.
Talking about the different geography. In India region, we witnessed a revenue growth of 38% Y-o-Y during the quarter. We received significant orders from both public and private sector Indian banks. A significant milestone for us has been recently announced order from a leading public sector bank for development and management of their complete digital banking -- digital business platform of INR 68 crores. It is the largest order in terms of value for us so far and an indication of how our solutions are found and are resonating to leading banks across the country. We are also working with one of the largest bank in India for their agri lending solution.
In the EMEA region as well, the digital banking acceleration is happening, and we are making deeper inroads and witnessing strong growth momentum. We have a revenue growth of 34% Y-o-Y during this quarter. In this region, we have been winning large value deals progressively. We are expanding business with our existing customers to additional cross-selling opportunities especially in the Saudi Arabia region.
We have also added marquee new logos in this region. During the quarter, we signed a large project for specialized banking under Central Bank of Saudi Arabia for digital lending. To further expand our footprint in this region through a local presence, we have established a new subsidiary in Riyadh recently. Also, another interesting new logo added in EMEA includes a leading private sector bank in Egypt where we are working on the -- again, working on a digital transformation project for banking loan originations.
In the American region -- Americas region, we witnessed revenue growth of 30% Y-o-Y. We are building additional business with midsized banks and credit unions. We have also added significant new logo, a leading global analytics and technology provider to the insurance industry, for our content management offering on cloud. In addition, we have recently opened an office in New York to tap the market in Eastern region.
APAC has been relatively weak this quarter. However, the deal pipeline looks solid and overall for the H1, we have still done great -- we have done great progress. Overall, we are witnessing a strong growth in booking and billing in the first half of the year. This includes large orders from existing customers as well as new logos. We added 14 new logos across geographies in Q2.
Our annuity revenues are growing at 26%, and we were at INR 179 crores, comprising of subscription revenue of INR 90 crores. License revenue continued to remain strong at INR 51 crores during the quarter. Building upon the license and subscription growth in the past, our implementation and support revenues are growing as well.
Coming to the product. At Newgen, we are developing thoughtful solutions powered by content, AI and analytics to automate workflow within a single platform, helping enterprises to eliminate reliance on legacy point solutions and becoming efficient.
Our major initiative in banking AI is coming of age and is expected to give us rich dividends in the near future. Our innovation and deep understanding of the unique challenges and requirements of customers help in adding capabilities and functionalities on our platform to meet the ever-evolving needs of the customers. From a lending platform that streamline credit processes to sophisticated trade finance solution, we are empowering bank to lead -- take a lead in this dynamic environment.
In insurance, we have transformed areas like policy issuance, grievances, [indiscernible] et cetera. We are happy to share that our SME lending accelerator has matured and we see immense opportunities in this area given the large addressable market. Moreover, our accounts payable solution has been recognized in the Gartner Market Guide for Accounts Payable Invoice Automation 2023 Report. We have also expanded our integration portfolio through partnership with leading ARP, CRM, banking and insurers and cloud providers and being listed on their marketplace. This enables our customers to leverage our platform capability through their existing applications, making them efficient and more productive.
We are now a global team of 3,900 people working towards a common goal. In the last few quarters, we have been extensively focusing on retraining and -- retaining our young employees and building additional capabilities and efficiencies across different domains, especially product and delivery.
With the attrition level stabilizing now across the market, our team is now maturing and working extensively in efficient implementation. On the sales and marketing front, we are further building upon the strengthening of our partnership network. We are working with global consulting partners to give impetus to our sales in the mature markets. We have recently elevated our partnership with Coforge to deliver transformative insurance life cycle management solutions. We are also streamlining our direct sales team through strategic hires.
During the quarter, we participated in leading industry events globally and successful -- and had highly successful customer meetings. We delivered healthy growth in profit and expanded margins during the quarter compared to the same quarter last year. Profit after tax at INR 48 crores witnessed a growth of 59% Y-o-Y. During the quarter, apart from investing 11% of our revenues on R&D initiatives, the company invested 21% of the revenues on the various sales and marketing initiatives.
On the balance sheet front, our net cash generated from operating activities for the 6-month period ending September 30 was INR 146 crores. Our net trade receivables were INR 316 crores at the end of September, which resulted in a net DSO of 105 days.
Last but not the least, we have been honored with the prestigious Mahatma Award for social good and impact towards quality education, showing our commitment to sustainability and community development. In an ever-evolving competitive financial landscape, our banking software solutions have not only tried but also have become indispensable to our customers. We have strategically positioned ourselves to be their trusted partners in navigating emerging trends in the financial technology sector. Our progress and positioning reinforces our optimism for the second half of the year.
Thank you. We are now open for Q&A. .
[Operator Instructions] We'll take the first question from the line of Baidik Sarkar from Unifi Capital.
Virender, congrats on a very strong show. How should we interpret this pace of the momentum, right? Is this an outcome of our regular go-to-market investments that just happened to fractify at this point in time today, clustered together on a small time frame? Or is the momentum that you're witnessing from the demand side of a genre that we've not seen earlier to that extent that super cycle that is afresh and to that extent unique. I'm just trying to understand how we should interpret this momentum that probably you may not have witnessed before.
Baidik, thanks for your question. So the momentum which we are witnessing. Of course, as a product company, we'll have to invest deep and sometimes the returns do come at various different points. But today, what's happening predominantly our traditional geos are performing very well. And some part of activity in the Indian landscape is around banking lending trade, as Mr. Nigam spoke in his interest, but also some emerging markets like Middle East, APAC are also performing very well for us.
So it's broad based in terms of what we have been doing. There's no -- nothing new as an initiative or something. The only thing what's happening, our positioning in our core verticals like insurance and banking, we are widening that. We have more offerings for customers. And the time also in the market is very right and the customers are responding very well to that. And as we are becoming -- having larger deal sizes, that is reflecting in the overall growth of revenue as well as the PAT.
How long do you think the cycle will be, right? And does that -- and does the number of H1 change the historical 40-60 split that we have seen annually. Normally, we see a flush of spend in Q3 and Q4. Is that direction still on? Or is the cyclicality curve smoothening?
It is smoothening, but not to that extent. So I think still we expect Q3 and Q4 to be much larger quarters for us because some of the revenue streams are bucketed like that renewals are bucketed around that, milestones are bucketed around that. But we have been trying deliberately to smoothen a bit of that growth curve with more subscription, more mature market revenue. Those things have not really picked up at that speed. So as I said, the traditional streams of license sale and emerging markets are still strong. So till that time that remains strong, some amount of seasonality will continue in the business. So I do expect that Q3, Q4 to be larger quarters than our Q1, Q2.
The last question, Virender, given that typically your sales cycle of this industry with a runner of 9 to 12 months, if not higher, and we're already past this fiscal, right? You mentioned in your opening remarks that your position in the core verticals are widening. So does that indicate to you softly or hardly that in the fiscal '25, the demand tendency, your execution tendency would probably be better than what we've seen in '24?
No. It's very difficult. I think we have not really gone that far and accurately predict that. But what I can tell you right now is the current order book positions over the last 3 quarters have been much stronger than the revenue. So that's reflecting. And that momentum is continuing. Our order book growth for last Q1 as well as Q2 has been high. We -- from the funnel and the deal pipeline, we also look at at least Q3, Q4 to be strong for us. Now looking into '25 may be a bit difficult for us. I think we'll have to wait for that. We still don't have that eye.
Sure, sure. In Q1, I think you quantified the pace of your order book growth was about 30%, even though revenue growth was what it was. Is it still in that genre? I'm just trying to see the pace at which your order book is growing.
It is still growing at a faster speed than the revenue growth.
We'll take the next question from the line of Aditi Patil from ICICI Securities.
Congratulations on good set of numbers. My first question is on implementation revenue, which has gone strongly both on Y-o-Y and Q-o-Q basis. So is it that the strong license revenue in last quarter has led to more implementation work in this quarter? And like what is the sustainability of this growth?
And secondly, on margins, so has strong implementation revenue like translated to lower employee expenses as a percentage of revenue and thus led to strong EBITDA margin improvement on a Y-o-Y basis?
And my third question is on revenue guidance. So with this strong performance in H1 with 30%-plus growth, it seems like for the full year, we can grow around that 30% range. So would you like to increase your guidance from current 20% to 25% to 30% growth for FY '24?
And my fourth question is around the pricing structure on the deal, the INR 68 crore 5-year deal, which you have announced. So is it license-based deal where like license and implementation revenue will get recognized in the few initial years, maybe 2 years, and then you will have support and services revenue for rest of the years? Yes, these are my questions.
Thank you, Aditi. It's a long list. I answered so many questions in my exam days. So nonetheless, yes, thank you for your time and I think on the implementation revenue growth, you're absolutely right. The order book, which has been strong over the last 3, 4 quarters, on license. Now it's culminating into more and more execution and fulfillment of those orders and projects, which is growing. So I do expect the implementation revenue to continue to remain strong as the license order is proceeding and that growth has been higher. For the H1 of this year also the license grew more than 50% compared to last year. So that will -- also on the downstream that will convert into more and more implementation revenue and execution revenue.
On the margin structure, I don't think the margin structure has anything to do with the implementation revenue. Margin structure is more about at the beginning of the year, we do our -- costs are front-loaded and we do estimates of growth on cost. So if we hit more top line, our costs don't vary that much because there is a large part of the revenue still dealing with the cost because it's a high gross margin business. So that's why there's a margin expansion in the Q1 and Q2, which have been traditionally very lean quarters for us. So it's not a factor of implementation, it's more a factor of higher growth rate.
On the issue of guidance, I don't think we provide any guidance, but we keep on saying that our aim for the company is to really accelerate growth and we believe that we have a potential of growing at a much higher growth rate than our traditional growth rate. So we have grown at a growth rate of 30% for last 3 quarters. I think Q3, Q4 are larger quarters for us, and we do expect to keep our growth momentum up, but whether it's going to 22%, 25% or 30% or more, I think we'll have to wait and watch for that.
On your last question about pricing, you're absolutely right, it's a license-based implementation deal with some amount of residual thing coming in terms of ATSs and AMCs. Larger part of this revenue is going to be realized in somewhere around 2 years, and then it's going to be typically a smaller part of the revenue, which is going to be realized over the next year. I hope that answers all your questions.
Yes. I just had one last question. So my last question is on, can you provide some details regarding like how the partnership with Coforge is progressing? And like how many new logos or deals you have won so far through this partnership?
So partnership with Coforge it's an initiative, which we have launched in terms of taking things to market. Right now, we don't have too many deals. We have good funnel going on. But these partnerships generally take longer time to mature. And so some of these partnerships will eventually be reflecting more growth in the mature market. That's where we are targeting these partnerships. So it's too early to quantify it in terms of results, funnels or orders.
We'll take the next question from the line of Vikrant Gupta from ICICI Pru Life.
Am I audible?
Yes, perfectly.
Yes.
Congrats on a good set of numbers. So I had 2 questions. Firstly, can you talk about whether anything incrementally has happened in the U.S. geography between Q2 and Q1? You had talked about the Q1 numbers in the U.S. being strong on a low base as well as some perpetual licenses being sold that you did not really think was sustainable. So has anything changed in Q2 versus Q1? The growth number is still pretty strong. So that's one.
And second, can you provide some context on how one should interpret the bookings number? Is this something that executes over the next 1 year, 2 years? Or how should one read that number? Yes, two questions.
Yes. Thank you, Vikrant. On the U.S. geo, I think the situation is not very different than Q1. So we do continue to win deals in U.S. I think we've got some very good deals this quarter as well. And -- but the overall growth momentum in terms of numbers, so it's roughly around 30% for H1. I think I would still call it on a more leaner year last year. So that's why the numbers are looking at 30%.
The growth in the U.S. is not at the same pace as we are growing in, say, India or Middle East. So this is still sporadic and on a lower base. Our lot of investments and our lot of restructuring and reorganizing is happening in that region. And we do expect that the real growth momentum starts coming in next couple of years.
But right now, I think it's not any incremental thing. It's more sustained what's been happening. We did pivot to larger banks, and we are closing now deals in larger banks and smaller banks. So deal sizes are slightly better. But a lot of these deals still are not converting into revenue. So I think we'll have to wait for that. So I would still say that what the -- what I said in Q1 in terms of U.S. growth looking on account of weaker last year, last few years, is still true. So rather than any drastic jump in the business momentum.
On the bookings side, our bookings are -- generally, our deals are not very, very long term. And when we are talking of growth of 40% booking, we are talking of growth of bookings, which can be executed in the next 365 days. So most of the growth of bookings should be executed in the next 365 days. There are going some delays, but that's how we look at booking numbers. We don't look at multiyear booking numbers most of the time.
[Operator Instructions] We'll take the next question from the line of Arvind Chetty from Tata AMC.
Sorry to harp on the growth for second half. So what I understand is our order book growth is growing faster than our revenue growth. And most of this order book we anticipate to get converted into revenues in the next 12 months. So is it fair to assume that our growth in H2 on a Y-o-Y basis would accelerate from where we are today?
So Arvind, it is absolutely right. There are 2 ways to look at it. One is that, of course, the business which we acquired in H1 of this year would get executed over the next 12 months. And some part of that revenue would come in Q3 and Q4. But what we have to be cognizant of the fact is that Q3, Q4 are very large quarters for us. And a lot of that revenue is driven out of jerky license sales.
So our ability to still win new deals and new large license deals is very essential for growth of Q3 and Q4. The previous bookings will add something, but they cannot sustain the traditional growth rates of Q1 or Q2. So we'll have to still wait for new deals as well as order bookings in Q3 and Q4 for higher growth. The book does not automatically translate into 30% growth in Q3, Q4.
Sure, sir. Just a follow-up on that. For the last couple of quarters, we have seen license revenues also growing significantly better for us. So is that trend sort of continues in Q3 and Q4, our growth should look much better or maybe similar to what it is at listing each one, right?
Yes. If we continue to sell licenses at the same -- in fact, much higher pace is what is the requirement of Q3, Q4. We can achieve the same growth rate, but it's very difficult. As I said, these are larger quarters. And our -- out of our, I would say, 4 engines generally 2 to 3 are only firing, not all are firing. So we'll have to really watch and see how we progress on that. Broadly, as Mr. Nigam also said, I think most of the parameters in terms of funnel, deal size, the market is looking very good, there's no reason why we can't maximize for at least 3, 4 quarters.
Got it. And just one last question on margins. So we've been in that 17% to 18% PAT margin for most of the year barring one in the last few years. This year, at least in first half, we are trending much better on a Y-o-Y basis. And if I heard it right, most of the investments we've done in H1. So the margin benefit should accrue in H2. So to that extent, on a Y-o-Y basis for full year, the margin should look better? And can we go higher than 20% kind of PAT margins for the business on a sustainable basis?
See, generally, Q2 -- sorry, the H2 of the year does compound to the most of the annual margins. So in spite of Q1, Q2 being high, but Q3, Q4 is -- are the real quarters. And if we can maintain a high top line beyond our budgeted top line, then we should be able to expand better margins for this year clearly. So what the projections or estimates of anywhere between 18% to 20% -- 21% EBITDA and 18% PAT, if we are able to hit any growth, which is above 26%, 27%, the margins should expand.
We'll take the next question from the line of Mihir Manohar from Carnelian Asset Advisors.
Congratulations on great set of numbers. I mean, these are very good numbers typically in this environment. Sir, largely wanted to understand which parts of BFSI are driving the growth? Because when we see global scenario, I mean, BFSI, specifically on the IT spends are challenging. So just wanted to understand what is exactly driving this growth in BFSI. Are these big market banks? Are these small market banks? How to understand them? And what can be the sustainability of this growth that will be important.
My second question was in the traction on the trade finance side. I mean, last time you had mentioned, there are some 5 to 6 clients which you have already onboarded on the trade finance part of the piece, and you were looking at some 4 to 5 clients this year also. So what is the update over there? What number of clients or what kind of inquiries are you seeing on the trade finance side? And is it higher or lesser than what you were previously seeing? That's my second question.
And third question was on the BPO IT part of the piece. When I say BPO IT, I think it has come down over the last 2 quarters. So is it a conscious effort that we are not -- we don't want to grow this particular part of the business BPO IT? And if so, then what is the thought process over there? I just wanted to get an understanding around that. Yes. So those were the questions.
Thank you, Mihir. I will answer it one by one. See, on the BFSI side, while globally in mature markets, there's a pressure on BFSI, but our traditional emerging markets, the BFSI is doing well, especially in countries where the growth rates, the economic activities are better. There's huge interest in looking at transforming their processes, especially on the digital side, improving the cost of lending to give a very differentiated experience to customers.
So like if you take markets like India, Middle East, some -- as well as some in APAC, there's a huge interest in the BFSI side. And when you're talking of this market, you're talking of typically Tier 1 accounts. You're talking of the larger banks in terms of -- so that's what -- that does not exactly reflect also in the markets in U.S. and Europe because our penetration is very thin, and we are trying to pivot. So -- but we have realized even in the same span in last 2 quarters, we have been able to acquire banks in those virtual markets as well for the same kind of problem.
So the India story of what we are trying to lead with digital in India, we are able to build the same -- similar products to the markets like U.S. and Europe. So overall, we think that the opportunity for digital transformation and banking, especially in the space of lending is extremely easy, and I think it can sustain over a period of time.
On trade, I think it's an area where we are very excited about it. We are winning deals. And in fact, this quarter as well, we have won some deals on this. We do expect that in the next 2 quarters also, we are able to close another few deals out there. But trade deals end up being very large, so it's not like the deal velocity or what you call in terms of size of the funnel is going to be very different, and we have to be very selective about taking these deals because they're more complex, they're more critical for the bank. Typically, the larger banks are the customers for trade. And we do think that over a period of time, we can make a substantial inroad in this whole segment of trade, both in markets like India, Middle East, APAC as well as there's a potential to go with larger banks in U.S. and Europe.
On your third question of BPO IT, I think BPO IT is typically in what we call enterprise BPO IT, shared service segment, I think. The market itself does not have the same potential as the banking because banking is a pretty large market. So that's why the -- if the growth rates are not very high out there as well as, as a company, we are growing, our deals sizes are growing, typically, the BPO IT don't end up giving us the same size. We are still excited about the enterprise market in India and in Middle East. So we are pursuing that, and we do want to kind of realizing products out there and build them. So the effort is on. But yes, right now, it's not growing at the speed which is expected. But I think we are investing beyond banking.
The other segment is insurance where we are finding a lot of traction in the same kind of digital service [indiscernible]. Mihir, does that answer your question?
Sure, sir. That's really helpful. Just a follow-up on the deal sizes. I mean, you have mentioned that deal sizes are going up for us. So can you just throw some color as to how have the deal sizes moved in the last 12 months or last 18 months per se? That will be helpful. And just a second follow-up on the banking side. What are the kind of people or companies that we're competing with while getting these contracts? Yes, just 2 follow-ups there.
I think Deepti would send you more information about the deal sizes, how much percentage. But substantially, I think the deal sizes would have grown by 30%, 40% year-on-year. But I think we'll get you more information on that. On the -- sorry, I could not -- last question.
Sure, sir. The last question was basically while we're winning these banking contracts, what are the kind of companies that we are competing with while getting these contracts?
So the competition in banking is about some players who are operating in digital banking side and this competition is pretty fragmented. On the more structural side, the competition could -- globally is around companies like nCino, Salesforce of the world as well as horizontal players, which are the Appians and Pegas of the world. But on -- from regional side, you have also very regional local competition out there in terms of very different companies in every country. So it's quite fragmented that way.
But right now, we are luckily operating in a space that the competition is not really affecting us at all. We are able to really convert most of the deals we are fighting.
[Operator Instructions] We'll take the next question from the line of Pranav Mashruwala from Dolat Capital.
Am I audible?
Yes, yes.
Yes.
So my question one is on NewgenONE comprehensive solution, which you launched in July '21. So I just wanted to know about the progress of that comprehensive solution rather than individual solutions per se, how is that progressing? Some color on that would be great.
So Pranav, the current flagship platform we have is the NewgenONE and most of the accelerators or the solutions, which are being built are built really being around that. So that's a timely platform, which we are carrying to the market. So it is on why one side, it's helping us to really accelerate the speed by which we can deliver these products, vertical products to the banks, insurance industry.
On the other side, we are getting extremely good traction from the GSIs and partners who can build products and solutions around the same thing, whether these are relationship with Coforge or Infosys or other companies who we are trying to pursue and trying to build this as part of their stack. So we are excited about the product. The product has been well adopted. It's been right now in many, many implementations we are trying to use this product out there. So we're excited about that. So it's going to be the flagship product. So basically, it's going to be the one which we'll be selling for most of value additions.
Great. So sir, my next question is, how many clients do we have at present in terms of 100 million plus billing, let's say, today as of Q2 versus previous year?
Sorry, what is the number you're saying in terms of?
The number of clients of 100 million-plus billing. Earlier, I think we used to provide that data, but I think now we are providing 50 million-plus clients. So...
We do -- actually, we do that at the end of the year because during the year, the billing periods are very different for clients. So because we don't have service revenue streams. So the revenue streams are jerky. A client could have a license sale or he could have an 8-year renewal date. So on the service side, it's very smooth, we can provide it quarterly in terms of -- but I think we provide the data yearly but in case you can ask Deepti and she can provide you what is the situation right now.
Sure. I'll get that. And sir, lastly, how is your hiring strategy going forward? I mean, we plan to -- because we are seeing a good robust...
We are in the growth momentum and we are continuing to hiring. We are hiring aggressively both on the lateral side as well as campuses. Last year, we honored all of our campus placements, and we have more than 600 people coming in the campus side. This year, we have a plan of hiring roughly around 550 to 600, I don't know exactly. And these numbers can also increase if you look at the business momentum in Jan.
So we are very excited about the business, so we continue with hiring momentum. And I think we are -- as a company, we have never dropped our campus offer, whether it was 2008 or whether it was 2000, we meet our commitments of campus. And so I think we think it's very essential and it will help our company to grow.
So we'll be going ahead and honoring all our commitments. And we, in fact, all the commitments of last year are already in, the people are already working. And for this year, we are going again of hiring roughly around 550 people from campus.
Sure. Just a follow-up on that. What was the time from conversion of fresher campus in a product company like us to the billing cycle?
See, when people come into our company, I think there are multiple areas they go. They go into the product areas, they go into our -- supporting our customers. They go into building our accelerator, and some go into delivery and implementation. A large part of the delivery and implementation is also fixed cost. So -- but generally, it depends on individuals or everybody is different, but we are very happy that people -- some people are very productive as coldly as 3 months and some people can be productive in 3 to 6 months.
The next question is from the line of Chirag Kachhadiya from Ashika Institutional Equities.
Congratulations for the good set of numbers. A couple of questions. On GSI front, what is the development in current quarter? And second, in current -- in last 2 quarters' revenue, what contribution is coming from GSI side? And third, as we have done a deal with -- we have tied with Coforge, so what are other -- which are other players which can be potentially there on GSI funnel from domestic market? Yes, that's it.
Yes. So thanks, Chirag. So our revenue mix between partners and Newgen is still remaining around 80-20. So it continues to remain at the same level. Our partnership with Coforge, we have also similar partnership with other larger Indian, most of the Indian GSIs. And we continue -- our focus on the partnership is predominantly mature markets, but we do have relationships in all emerging markets as well. So that's the way the GSI works for us. We don't have specific relations for specific markets. Generally, our aim is when we are talking of GSI, we are talking of mature market relationships, and that's where we focus. Does that answer your question, Chirag?
Yes. One follow-up question on same. Whenever any partner empanel for GSI related stuff, what is generally the time cycle to deliver the project if you can share it.
The GSI relationship or partnerships are more strategic in nature. Sometimes they may have an accounting view, sometimes there's no accounting view. So once you go to market, you end up winning cases, then the execution cycles are normal execution cycles. But we are continuously investing with GSI to train their resources. So they are prepared in both sales -- with sales as well as execution cycles. And in case also there challenges, then we as a company have a large execution team, we augment those GSI effort and help GSIs to execute better. But it's not linked with the partnership signing agreement with the GSI.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Harsh Shah from Dimensional Securities.
Sir, a broader question. Just wanted to understand which part of the business are we seeing more traction? Is it on the content service side, the OmniDocs part of the business? Or is it more on the low-code no-code automation. Just wanted to get an understanding on that.
So Harsh, the traction in the business is predominantly from core verticals, which is like banking, insurance and banking also in digital. The platforms which we have built are built based on our NewgenONE platform, which encompasses both low-code capabilities as well as content service. So most of these cases, which are about digital transformation, end up using more than one product underlying product. So business orchestration is a need for every platform, low-code capabilities are essential these days as well as content is very essential as part of every business. So these become the fundamental pillars, sorry, on which we build the digital lending platform or a trade platform or a claims system. So all those cases, our core products are used in all those cases. The biggest traction right now is from the vertical side. And in those verticals, both the platforms are always used.
Okay. Okay. And so if I want to understand the size of the market where we operate in our traditional market as well as U.S. markets. So if you can quantify what is the addressable market share, just to get an understanding of what is the headroom to grow that would be helpful.
This is -- I think we operate in a market, which is very, very large. You can estimate it. If you take the ECM or the content and low-code that itself is more than $30 billion, and we are not even at a percentage. But if you look at low-code capabilities and look at application stacks in low-code, that's another $140 billion. And there is no proper estimate and there are many reports and Deepti can share some reports with you where you can understand the market.
The core message is there's so much of headroom to grow, and we are still operating in a very small part of that market. So our ability to execute is the only constraint and essentially our ability to execute in the mature market.
Okay. Okay. And to get a better understanding. So is it that we need to grow by taking market share from someone? Or is it that the demand which is getting created -- or this is the new industry in itself, which is creating the market for players like us?
So the general, the traditional areas of ECM BPM are growing at 8%, 9%. So the market itself is expanding. But the digital use case market, where typically, what you're seeing is happening in banking or in insurance, these are creating new use cases. Now these use cases are somehow in a parallel expanding the market.
So it is -- a large part of it is around new use cases, but also we are into the business of ECM replacement and modernization where the old solutions are getting obsolete. We have a new tech stack, where we are trying to replace both on content services side and low-code side. So it's a combination of both, but it's very difficult to really answer this at a size when we are less than 1% of the global market. These questions are relevant when you are having 15%, 20% of the addressable market size.
The next question is from the line of Devang Bhatt from IDBI Capital.
Just wondering that you said that 17%, 18% margins -- of PAT margins are based on 20%, 25% growth. So if you grow higher than 25%, what is the BPS increase in margin for every 1% increase in revenues? Can you have that quantification? My second question is what kind of order book do you need -- order book growth for you to grow 30% consistently. And the last question is how many logos have you won with GSI this year -- this quarter?
Yes. Sorry, Devang, I'm not financially so literate to answer these questions. They are too mathematical. But just to answer, the correlation is like very simple. It's basically our costs as you look at Q2 cost base is typically the standard cost base, which will be maintained in Q3, Q4 with small variation. And so if you have already the cost, and you can look at the top line targets of Q3, Q4, you can clearly estimate the potential margins, which can depending on whether it's a 26% growth or 30% or [ 24% ] growth. So that's easily reversible [indiscernible], but we don't have a correlation that for every 1% top line growth, this much of percentage will get [indiscernible]. I don't think we look at business in that way. We look at how we will meet growth and what are the best ways of investing the monies for the growth?
On the booking -- again, on the correlation of what bookings will lead to what kind of revenue downstream is again a question depending on deal composition, whether you got a subscription deal or you got an upfront license deal or there's the larger service component. Again, we don't track it that way, unfortunately. But if you can articulate your questions in more detail, then probably Deepti can work and create some data for you on that side. Does that answer your question?
Yes, sir. Just that how many logos you have won this quarter with GSI?
Around 14 logos this quarter across geos.
With GSI?
With GSI, we had 2 deals this quarter.
Okay. And sir, last year, DSO days were how much Y-o-Y basis? You have 105 this quarter. Last year same time, it was?
Maybe 120. If I'm not wrong 105 or something like that. 120 days -- sorry, for September 111. 111 to 105.
Ladies and gentlemen, this will be the last question for today, which is from the line of Sarang Sanil from RW Investment Advisors.
I hope I'm audible.
Sarang, if you can be a bit loud, I can.
Yes. Your audio is low, sir.
Yes, I'm audible now?
Yes, much better.
Yes. So congrats on setting up a new office in New York considering the presence of large banks in the region. Do you think it's time we divert our focus from selling through the GSI route and go sell directly to these banks? If so, are we expecting an increase in the marketing spend considering also how U.S. players usually do the business there?
Sarang, thank you. It's a very good question. And I think the idea of opening the New York office about being close to the ecosystem where we can succeed, especially in banking and insurance. So when we're working in GSI, it's very important to understand that the larger accounts, GSI's ability to execute and implement your product is very essential for success because customers do have relationships and all these programs need GSIs to execute that. But that does not mean that we don't have to sell.
We are aggressively looking at actively putting our own sales boots on the ground, creating our -- increasing our expense in marketing. Whether that really how much of expense or overhead it creates for the company, I don't think it's going to be very large initially. We still are generating very high gross margin. And with slightly better growth rates, we should be able to aggressively invest in U.S. to do all that.
And again, we are looking at market share where we are looking at larger accounts, which can quickly turn into profitable customers. So we're not looking at the U.S. mode of expansion where we are looking at only account acquisition and burning cash, we are still looking at profitable business what we can execute.
Understood, sir. Understood. So also great to see that DSO dropped significantly and moved towards the planned target. so sir, what has really changed in the quarter despite seeing good growth in the Indian market and EMEA, where customers usually slack on the payments. Is there a change in the way deals are structured? Or has the efficiency in the collection improved?
Efficiency of collection is improved, and we will try to take some credit that we are doing our job better. And I think -- yes. So also -- you have to look at the DSOs generally in this quarter are much lower because these are also relatively lesser billing quarters. Of course, they are large, but compared to Q3, Q4, they are much.
So we would expect that we are improving the hygiene of the whole system. We are following up with clients more aggressively, and we keep on improving it. And our target to meet roughly around 90 days of DSO in the next 1, 1.5 years, we want to achieve that.
Yes, sir. Sir happy to see Newgen celebrating even before the festival season has begun. So congrats and all the best for future.
Happy Diwali. Thank you.
As that was the last question for today, I would now like to hand the conference over to Ms. Deepti Chugh for closing comments. Over to you, ma'am.
Thank you so much for attending the call. For any further questions, you can connect to me or you can go to our website. Thank you.
Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Newgen Software Technologies Limited, that concludes this conference call. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.