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Earnings Call Transcript

Earnings Call Transcript
2020-Q3

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Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 FY '20 Earnings Conference Call of NATCO Pharma Limited hosted by Axis Capital Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prakash Agarwal from Axis Capital. Thank you. And over to you, sir.

P
Prakash Agarwal
Executive Director of Pharmaceuticals

Yes, thanks. I welcome you all on behalf of Axis Capital to the Q3 Fiscal '20 NATCO Conference Call, represented by senior management team, Mr. Rajeev Nannapaneni, Vice Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Mr. Rajesh Chebiyam, Vice President, Acquisitions, Institutional Investor Management and Corporate Communications. Over to you, Rajesh.

R
Rajesh Chebiyam

Thank you, Prakash. Good morning, and welcome everyone to NATCO's conference call discussing our earnings results for the third quarter of FY '20. We hope you have received our Q3 FY '20 financials and the press release that was sent out yesterday. These are also available on our website. During the call, we may be making certain forward-looking statements, which are predictions, projections or statements about future events. And anything said on this call which reflects our outlook for the future or which may be construed as forward-looking statement, must be reviewed in conjunction with the risks that the company faces. I'd like to state to the material of the call, except the participant questions, is a property of NATCO, cannot be recorded or rebroadcast without NATCO's expressed written permission.We'll begin the call with the results highlights and followed by an interactive Q&A session. So on the earnings, NATCO has recorded a consolidated total revenue of INR 513 crores for the third quarter, which ended on December 31, 2019, as against INR 580 crore for the same period last year. The net profit for the period on a consolidated basis was INR 104 crores as against INR 139 crores same period last year. The company continues to face certain margin pressures in its hep C portfolio.During the quarter, the other expenses was higher, primarily due to a INR 15 crore provision for general chargeback and doubtful debts, in addition to about INR 6 crores of higher R&D costs as well. I think this is one of the key things that we'll discuss further during the call. The segmental revenue split has also been given and shared via our press release. We can discuss further if there are any specific questions on that, okay? Thank you very much. We'll open up for Q&A.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Sameer Shah from Valuequest.

S
Sameer Shah
Director of Research & Portfolio Management

Sir, first on the pressures on the U.S., this flu season was quite severe. So have we had some -- any traction on Tamiflu and whether these margin pressures or the slow top line because OpEx on market share is constant? So whether there is a pricing pressure there as well?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think Copaxone has been steady. I think things are well with Copaxone. Regarding Tamiflu, there's been good uptake. I think we did very well with the suspension. We didn't do so great with the capsules. However, whatever volume we sold, it's not been great on the pricing. Pricing has been really competitive. So in terms of -- we have not had a great addition on the earnings, but otherwise, it's been fairly competitive.

S
Sameer Shah
Director of Research & Portfolio Management

Okay. But can we say that this is now kind of steady state for the international -- I mean, U.S. geography?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I would believe so, yes.

S
Sameer Shah
Director of Research & Portfolio Management

Okay. And second, on the various approvals that we are awaiting both on the agri side and Revlimid, are there any developments?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I said in the call, I think -- so I'll just -- there is 3 major events that we are playing out in the next few months. So I'll list them out. I think -- very quickly I'll run through. One of them is Revlimid Canada. So Revlimid Canada, the trial date is in the month of March in Canada. And in terms of what we're going to do in Canada, I think we're looking at all options, either a settlement or go to trial and launch. So we have not made up our mind on what we want to do. We're weighing all options, and we'll come back to you on that. That's #1. #2 is Revlimid U.S. We -- as I said in the past, we have a goal date this quarter. We're hoping we'll get an approval this quarter, subject to FDA not asking us any queries. So that's 1 major event. And also -- of course, we're also watching the -- Dr. Reddy's trial. My understanding is Dr. Reddy's goes to trial end of this year. So we'll actually see how that plays out. And that also has a bearing on how things play out for us as well, as you know, so this is the second major one. The third major one is Coragen as you said. So I think the review is going well. We're awaiting approval from the Agriculture Ministry in India. So that's -- we're looking forward from that. Regarding the launch of that product, again, we need to -- we have a court case with FMC. So it's premature to speak about our launch plans. I think we'll see how the legal proceeding goes and get the approval, I think then we'll speak about it, yes. So these are the 3 major things.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Sudarshan Padmanabhan from Sundaram Mutual Fund.

S
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
Research Analyst

Sir, on the U.S. business, the Tamiflu side, I mean, usually, we have this lead and lag in terms of getting the profits from the partner. I mean, have we -- what is the quantum of profits? I mean, has there been any deferment of profit in the fourth quarter would be meaningful?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I don't think -- there's not much we had, I think, nothing meaningful where we'll have an impact that I'm aware of at this time. So your question is, have we deferred anything that we've not recognized, and that we're going to recognize once we have clarity. I don't think there's any meaningful number that is happening which would make any impact on the earnings in the coming quarter. I think that's the best way to answer that question. Okay?

S
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
Research Analyst

Yes, sir. And second is, if I look at the domestic business, I mean, on a Q-on-Q basis, there has been a very sharp improvement. I mean, I would understand, we have been talking about oncology pickup and probably the non-oncology, non-hep C picking up, et cetera. Well, if you can give some idea about what's really happened in this quarter? And whether this momentum would continue as we move forward?

R
Rajesh Chebiyam

Sudarshan, I can give you the split for the quarter so then we'll take it from there. Oncology itself for Q3, we had about INR 95 crores. And the non-onco, brand pharma, which is about INR 39 crores for the quarter. And then CnD was about INR 3 crores and the third-party is about INR 16 crores. So oncology per se, from Q2 to Q3, has picked up, right, so as a run rate. So broadly, in terms of run rate going forward, maybe Mr. Rajeev can...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think this is all driven by the new launches that we've had. So we had some very good launches. So that has helped us. I think our momentum on the launches will continue. I think we are very positive the way it's going. Things are stable, and we look forward that it'll be stable. But again, the only concern I have is on the supply chain from China. So we have -- we may be impacted depending on -- let's see how it plays out. The -- if everything settles down, I think we're fine. But if there is any supply chain issues, there could be some impact on a couple of APIs and couple of domestic products. If the supply chain challenges continue, possibly in Q4 and maybe in Q1, but we just have to see how that plays out. Okay?

S
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
Research Analyst

Sure, sir. And on the emerging markets, how are we placed, sir? I mean, historically, that has also been an area of focus for us. How has this quarter...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think, as a strategy, we are focusing on Canada and Brazil. I think Brazil, our oral subs have been -- overall oral subs have been profitable. I think our Brazil loss has dropped. The loss in Brazil sub this quarter has been only about INR 70 lakhs. So I think things are looking good in all the subs. Canada is doing extremely well. And so I think, overall, we are positive about how the markets are doing. The major emerging -- the whole emerging market, if you look at the numbers today, I'm including Brazil, Canada, Philippines, Singapore and Thailand and the other major markets that we're selling, I think our top line is about 50, 50 -- INR 51 crores, INR 52 crores from these markets. I would say, about 10% of our revenue is coming from these markets. Okay?

S
Sudarshan Padmanabhan
Research Analyst

Sure, sir. Just one final thing. I mean, on your...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

We'll give chance to another -- next person. Yes, we'll come back.

Operator

The next question is from the line of [ Akshit Agarwal ] from [indiscernible] Capital.

U
Unknown Analyst

In one of the questions, you had said that Copaxone has held steady and that Tamiflu has not done exceptionally well largely because of pricing issues. But if I look at the numbers sequentially for the U.S., there's about a INR 40 crore-odd drop, so I mean, there's clearly some impact, right, where Tamiflu was there some portion last year, but Copaxone has clearly taken a hit then. Otherwise, seeing this drop wouldn't have been right. Can you please comment on that?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

You're saying that there's a difference between Q2 and Q3. Is that what you're saying?

U
Unknown Analyst

Yes. So yes, correct. So if there's a sequential drop and if Tamiflu wasn't a big portion last quarter and this quarter, then Copaxone definitely would have taken a hit, right?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

See, I believe the way it works is the export turnover also is driven by certain amount of stocking that we did for Tamiflu. So you should not look at it on a Q2 to Q3 basis. I think it's also -- see, one thing you have to remember is, the sales tend to be higher when the flu season is there. So we do some buildup of stock and so on and so forth. So I will not strictly compare it on a Q-to-Q basis.

U
Unknown Analyst

So it will be fair to assume that Copaxone has not gone down. That is...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I -- my reading is that Copaxone, the way things are going, it's holding very steady. The difference that you're attributing is because of the seasonal stock build up that we do for Tamiflu. Okay?

U
Unknown Analyst

Got it. I just have one -- it's a larger question...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Yes, go ahead. Sure.

U
Unknown Analyst

If you look at the -- your commentary in 2Q '19, you had spoken in great detail about Brazil. And you had said that you're very positive on launches. There is some limited competition launch, and FY '20 should see benefit. You also attributed to some larger molecules getting approval in Brazil. How has that shaped up? Because from just reading on tonality of how bullish you were versus where we are today, do you think that we've sort of underperformed to our expectation? And what should we look forward to there?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Overall, if you see, I think Canada has done far better. See, we look at our emerging market revenues about compared to a few years ago, which was almost nil, and today, we've hit about 10% of our revenue. So I think I said that a few minutes ago. If you want to look at -- I mean, with the benefit of hindsight, I mean, you only assume that certain things will work out. But everything doesn't work out the way you plan, okay, I mean, broadly. So in terms of -- if you were to do a hindsight analysis, I think Canada has done much better than I thought, and Brazil has underperformed compared to what our expectation was. I think we expected that Canada will be contributing -- sorry, Brazil will be contributing more than what it has had. To be precise, Canada has done INR 35 crores this quarter, and Brazil has done INR 7 crores to INR 8 crores. [Technical Difficulty] Brazil will do much better than -- to be very precise, it's INR 37.5 crores in Canada, and we did about INR 7 crores in Brazil. And the reason why we didn't do so well in Brazil is that the uptake has not been as strong as we thought. But good news is that we have at least reduced the loss. And I think we got another approval this quarter, and I think we're looking forward, we think we should be able to be cash positive starting from next quarter. And we have lined up few other launches next year. So I think -- I'm overall still positive. I mean, it's a process. They don't change overnight, but I think we take a more -- a long-term view, I think you'll see a difference. And -- okay?

U
Unknown Analyst

Got it. And just last, it's not a question, but one comment that you made earlier. You had said that Revlimid Canada is actually going for trial in March.

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

That's right.

U
Unknown Analyst

And you're thinking about whether to settle or whether to go to trial. So 2 things. Once you agree to a trial, can you then go back to a settlement? And second, if you do -- if you have a settlement, if you think of ultimately taking a settlement, would that settlement -- is that settlement even possible in cash like DRL or it will be a settlement of sorts where you launch after patent? Because once you've gone to court and once you've asked for a trial, I don't know how that process works on going back. So can you...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Okay. To answer your question, you can ask for a settlement anytime as long as both parties are willing to agree, even ask third day of a trial or fifth day of a trial, I mean, it doesn't -- if 2 parties are willing to settle, you can settle at any time. There's no challenge there. What we will do is something that I don't want to comment at this time. It's -- we do what is right for us. I think, as a company, we'll weigh all our options, we'll do what the right thing is, which will give us the best benefit. If you ask me what I'm going to do, I'll not answer that question, but I'll do what is right. Beyond that, I can't answer that question.

U
Unknown Analyst

Sure, sure. From a time line perspective, though it seems that whatever the outcome is, whether it's a trial or whether it's -- if it's a settlement, it could be earlier, but if it's a trial, then we're looking at somewhere around 5, 6 months, right? So that should be something that we should be aware of as outside in, right?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Yes, I mean, it can happen -- if you're -- you can settle any time today or you can settle next financial year also.

U
Unknown Analyst

No, I'm talking about if you go to a trial. I'm talking about if you go to a trial.

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

If you go to a trial, if you play out the hypothesis that you're going to trial, and you want to launch, it will play out only in the next financial year, provided the trial goes well, yes, it will be play out -- it will not play out in this financial year. That's correct. Absolutely correct.

Operator

The next question is from the line of [ Vinod Kumar ] from [ Growth Partners ].There seems to be no response from the line of [ Vinod Kumar ]. We move to the next question.The next question is from [ Kashyap Karthik ] from [ Table Tree Capital ].

U
Unknown Analyst

Sir, one question is, at the start of the year, we had a far more kind of aggressive guidance in terms of the revenue impact and given we are at the end of Q3, what was the reason that we didn't kind of foresee at the start of the year which is not -- which will probably not let us achieve the profit or sales as guided? What are factors that played according to our estimates and what are the factors that didn't play according to our estimates? And the second piece is, from a FY '21 perspective, if you could tell us what are the growth triggers that are possibly there from here on for FY '21? '22 is obviously the big Revlimid per se. But '21, if you could just give us what went wrong in FY '21 guidance?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think FY '21, I already spoke about the growth triggers. I think I've already spoken about the 3 major things. I've said that in the earlier part of call, okay, so those are 3 major events, as I've mentioned, Revlimid Canada, U.S.A. and some -- and the clarity based on -- they're all linked with court verdicts and -- so I think -- and the agro product. So that I think I already answered that question. What did I get wrong for FY '20 in terms of the guidance, okay? I -- in my head, I think I -- we were weighing different options. I think we were weighing -- I think the 1 major factor was, in my head, we weighed the option of doing a settlement for the Canadian piece, I think, initially in the guidance. But I think as things progressed, I think we are weighing the option of even launching. So I think that's probably 1 major difference between our earnings estimation -- that's impacting our earnings estimation. And I think that's probably the biggest one. I think that's probably the biggest one. The other things are, I think the pricing pressure has continued, and I think, otherwise, there's not much difference on what I guided and where we ended up.

U
Unknown Analyst

Got it, sir. Got it. And the other question, sir. From a Copaxone competition perspective, Roche has gotten a product called Ocrevus which seems to be a worthy competitor to Copaxone. So I just wanted to get your sense on -- I mean, although we can maintain our market share, the number of prescriptions that are written in favor of Ocrevus seems to be increasing at a faster rate compared to Copaxone. So I just wanted to get your sense from a competitive perspective on Copaxone?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think there are a lot of oral products in my sense. I think my sense is there's been many products in MS. I think this is -- you're only mentioning 1 product. From my understanding, again, there has been a lot of -- there's fingolimod, there's teriflunomide. I mean, there is a whole slew of them. I can't recollect all their names, but from top of my head, I would say there are many products which have come in MS in the last few years. But overall, I think Copaxone held steady. I think we've got very good market share. I think we're doing well. I think it has not impacted our volumes.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Anuj Momaya from Valuequest.

A
Anuj Momaya
Analyst

Sir, can you just highlight on the domestic launches that we have done? How is Vildagliptin, Apixaban and Ticagrelor doing for us, each product, if you can just share some light?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think all the brands are doing well. I don't want to do a granular monthly split for competitive reason. But all the brands are doing well, my friend. I think Apixaban, I would -- we're still the only generic in the market. Ticagrelor has been more competitive than we thought. Vildagliptin, as you know, there's so many brands in Vildagliptin. I'm not able to count the number of generics that are there, but I think we have the first-mover advantage. I think we're doing well with that. And another one that we launched was Ibrutinib again, first time generics in India. So even that brand is doing well. So these are the major launches that have happened in the last few months.

A
Anuj Momaya
Analyst

Okay. And in this quarter, you mentioned only INR 3 crore sales in CnD. And you just mentioned a comment of INR 15 crores kind of a provision that you have done in this -- can you just highlight what is this? So why is there a dip in the CnD piece? So from...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

We clearly sees a dip because of the stocking quantities that we have done in the previous quarter. The INR 15 crore charge-back is to do with -- see, basically what -- we had a discussion with our auditor and I think because there are -- we have to run a global business. So we have challenges with respect to charge backs and we have challenges with respect to bad debt. So I think what -- I think after our discussion with our auditor, we've decided to make a general INR 15 crore provision to cover for any business, unexpected business, unforeseen business situations. So it's a very conservative view. I think it's not that we have any receivable which is, we believe, is getting delayed or we were expecting some charge back on any particular item. It's a general view that we have taken, that we want to make a INR 15 crore provision and on a quarterly basis, we want to make a INR 2 crore provision. I think this is something that we have decided to do. And I think it's just for hygiene sake that we're doing it.

A
Anuj Momaya
Analyst

And you also mentioned about INR 6 crores higher R&D spend that was there in the quarter. So can you just highlight what led to this higher spend than usual?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

This is one particular ANDA that we want to do, which we intend to file in the next few months, which is, I believe, will be a very good one. So I think -- see, we are time to time looking at first-to-files. And then there are some very interesting products that are there. And based on the opportunity, we make these discretionary spends. And we are not backing down from spending. I think we're only choosing what to spend. And we had -- we did about 6 filings this year for first-to-file -- 6 filings we're expecting to do. About 5 we've already filed so far, of which Bosentan suspension for tablet has been the sole FTF. [indiscernible] is another interesting oncology product. It's a shared FTF. So that's another one that we've done. We've done a couple of other FTF, but there have been many filers on day 1. So they're not worth talking about. But -- so we're trying to do different things, but -- so I think these R&D expenditures is based on opportunities we have, okay?Next question, please?

Operator

The next question is from the line of Hari Belawat from Techfin Consultants.

H
Hari Belawat

This is regarding agrochemicals, some INR 100 crore investment was done, and this was to be completed by 2019, I don't know FY or CY. Is it complete? What is the status now?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Everything is getting ready, my friend. I think our expectation is that the plant should be operational in April of 2020 in the next 2 months. I think that's our expectation. Things are going well. We're applying for all the permits and licenses to operate the factory. I think we should -- it will definitely -- our expectation is, it'll be operational next quarter.

H
Hari Belawat

Okay. Sir, how much revenue do we expect in the next year in FY '21 from this agrochemical business?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I can't answer that question because it's linked with certain launches and which are all subjected to legal outcomes. So I don't want to say anything about that at this time. All I can say right now is the facility will be ready and will be operational next quarter.

H
Hari Belawat

Okay, sir. Another thing is this INR 15 crore provision, where have we shown in the figures, consolidated figure? In exceptional item, it is not shown, nothing is shown. Where...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Other expenses. It's shown in other expenses.

H
Hari Belawat

Other expenses. Okay. Sir, just one more, a small query. This Directors' approval, you are taking for Chairman and Vice Chairman only for 2 years. Generally, it is for 5 years because for Independent Director also, you are talking 5 years approval. Why it is limited for a very short period of 2 years? Any reason on that?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

There's no reason I think on the 2 years. I think we said we'll reassess the situation after 2 years I think. There's no reason.

H
Hari Belawat

It's the most competent management, sir.

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

All right. I mean, there's no -- if you ask me for a reason, I don't have a reason. So I think that's the best way I can answer that question, okay?

Operator

The next question is from the line of Rohit Balakrishnan from VRDDHI CAPITAL.

R
Rohit Balakrishnan;Vrddhi Capital;Analyst

So sir...

R
Rajesh Chebiyam

Can you speak up a little?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

My friend, you're a little soft. Can you speak a little louder, please?

R
Rohit Balakrishnan;Vrddhi Capital;Analyst

Is it better now?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

It's better now, yes. Thanks.

R
Rohit Balakrishnan

So sir, on the India business, so you have also commented that there is a lot of pricing pressure. But sir, just to understand, I mean, from here on, do we expect to grow 15%, 20% on the India portfolio? If you can just talk a bit about that, your pipeline?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think we should -- my friend, I think our expectation is we'll grow at that level. So again, see, if you understand one more thing is our growth is driven by launches. And some of these launches involve patent litigation as well, yes. So if these patent litigations go against us, then obviously, the growth rate is not possible. Based on -- what I can only say is that we have a good pipeline, and we expect that we'll get favorable outcomes in the court. Subject to that, our ability to execute, I think, I believe we'll be able to grow. Okay?

R
Rohit Balakrishnan;Vrddhi Capital;Analyst

Okay. Got it. And just as a follow-up to this. So in terms of -- you mentioned Vildagliptin and there's been many, many brands there. So I mean, if you can talk about the pipeline in cardio and diabetology? And also other pipelines that you have in your mind that can sort of help you to achieve this 15%, 20% kind of growth in the next couple of years?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I will not answer that question. I will not answer that question because just for competitive reasons, I will not answer that question. What I can tell you is, see, what the management can do is we can tell you that this is what we have launched, and these are the exciting molecules, and this is the position that we have. And based on our past performance, I would -- we'd like to stick to a similar strategy that we have done in the past. If you ask me specifically, you want me to give me a pipeline, no way. I think we can't do that. I think when the launches happen, we'll speak about what we have done. But for competitive reasons, we can't answer that question.

R
Rohit Balakrishnan;Vrddhi Capital;Analyst

But it's fair to say that you're confident -- yes, sorry. Go ahead, sorry.

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

So idea is that we launch these interesting products, and we'll try to be like one of the earliest generics or in the first wave launch, and try to launch about solid molecules of 8 to 10 molecules a year, so that we can keep the growth engine going. I'm sorry, go ahead. You were saying something, yes.

R
Rohit Balakrishnan;Vrddhi Capital;Analyst

No, that is helpful, sir. Just 1 more question. So in terms of the pricing pressure in hepatitis C, I mean, what is your outlook? I mean, has it bottomed out? Or how do you see the next, maybe 3, 4 quarters from here on?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

It's been difficult, honestly, my friend. I think the peak sales were about INR 480 crores a year. And now we have dropped to like INR 30 crores now I think a quarter.

R
Rajesh Chebiyam

INR 100 crores, INR 110 crores.

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

INR 120 crores annualized. So it's been a dramatic drop, so which has affected our domestic portfolio. But it has nothing to do with -- again, if you look at market share, we're still the #1 company in that segment. I think the challenge here is it's a cure, and see, the takeoff was unexpected and even the drop is also -- I mean, initially, when we launched the product, there was a pool of patients who were untreated. So immediately, the brand took off. But because of the cure, within 3 months, lot of people get cured, the patient pool keeps reducing. So the only way now to get new patients is when you have new diagnosis. Right now, it's holding up steady state. I mean, what I can do is we can update you on how the quarterly sale is going, but this is where we are today. Okay?

R
Rohit Balakrishnan;Vrddhi Capital;Analyst

Got it. And sir, just one more question on Nexavar, if I can ask. So sir, our understanding is that, that product has an exclusivity expiring in November of this year, November 2020, and we have a 180-day settlement. So should we assume that, that we'll get a fee exclusivity? Or do we get to launch only when the -- once everybody starts to sort of launch after the settlement -- after the exclusivity is lower? So if you can just talk a bit about that?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think what I'll tell you is, we got it approved in 13 months. So we believe we have our 180 days, and it's a joint venture with Mylan. The actual launch date, I can't speak about it because it's bound by confidentiality, okay? We believe we have exclusivity and it's going to happen in the near future. The exact date and all, I don't want to speak about at this time. I think when we're coming closer to the launch, I think we'll speak about it. Do I expect that we keep the 180 days? As of today, that's our expectation that we'll get to keep the 180 days. Okay?

Operator

The next question is from the line of Kunal Mehta from Vallum Capital.

K
Kunal Mehta
Research Analyst

Sir, any plans with respect to the cash on the balance sheet?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Can you say that again? Can you say that question one more time? I didn't catch.

K
Kunal Mehta
Research Analyst

Sir, what are your plans with respect to the cash you have on the balance sheet presently?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

What's the plan for the cash which is there on the balance sheet? The cash today, as of December 31, we have about INR 951 crores of cash. And in terms of debt, we have about INR 284 crores of debt, that includes INR 86 crores of foreign bill discounting and that's as of December 31. I don't have a plan as of now. I think we're just keeping it in deposits. And then I think we'll -- but I think that what this deposit allows us to do is allows us to take interesting amount of risk on certain products, so which is what is a great thing about having a deposit. If you ask me specifically, what I'm going to do with this money? As of now, I don't have a plan. It's -- I think we're just leaving it as status quo. Okay?

K
Kunal Mehta
Research Analyst

Sure, sir. Sir, the second question I have is that, if I exclude Copaxone and Tamiflu, have you seen competitive pressures in other products in the U.S.?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

In terms of market share, I think the other products have done reasonably well. I think there have been [Audio Gap]All the other products have done reasonably well. We've seen pressure, particularly in Tamiflu is what we have seen. I think we made lot of profit in the past. I think when -- now we have lost a lot of it. I think that's why it's hurting our earnings growth. So that's probably the biggest difference and the reason why our earnings growth is -- has dropped.

K
Kunal Mehta
Research Analyst

Sure. And then the final question is, sir, in terms of Brazil, do you still remain optimistic on the launches which you had planned at the beginning of the year? I mean, as you just mentioned, the launches have been delayed to some extent. But do you still remain optimistic of the size and the number of launches you have planned for Brazil?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think -- I believe that Brazil has come to an inflection point where we'll actually start seeing good money. I know it's been a very painful journey. We've lost money for all these years. But I feel like things are turning around. And we have a lot of interesting launches lined up in the next few months, a lot of them are first-time generics in Brazil. So I'm positive, my friend. I still believe that I think we have come to a stage that they are very sure I think this calendar year, I think we should do well. I'm very positive. But Brazil is a tough market. I mean, it is not -- and obviously, we -- and I think our expectations were very large when we actually invested. But it took a long time to get the approvals going. And finally, I think we've come to a stage where things have been doing much better.

Operator

And the next question is from the line of Nimish Mehta from Research Delta Advisors.

N
Nimish Nagindas Mehta
Research Analyst

Rajeev, I am very confused when you said that the difference between our expectation on sales growth as guided and what came out is largely because of the expectation related to Revlimid in Canada. But on the other hand, you also mentioned that Canada has performed better than what you had expected. So how do I [Audio Gap]

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I don't think you've got what I said. I think what I said was that one of the biggest things that, that gentleman was asking was, would you do a settlement for Revlimid and -- like Dr. Reddy's. And I think, in our mind, we initially thought we want to do a settlement. This is what I've said, if you -- I'm talking -- when we talk about Canada business, we're talking it ex-Revlimid. So the Canada has done well ex-Revlimid, okay? That was my first statement. The second statement that the gentleman asked me was, will you -- why did your guidance expectation -- why didn't you meet your guidance expectation? So I said, the reason in the early when I gave the guidance, in my head, I thought we're going to do the settlement. But as time progressed, we have -- we decided that we should also look at the opportunity to launch as well. And specifically, I also said, we have not made up our mind still, whether we want to settle or want to go to trial and launch. So that's the reason why -- and the upside of that has not been captured. I think that's what I said. Does that make sense?

N
Nimish Nagindas Mehta
Research Analyst

Yes, yes, yes, I understand. So I mean, you expect -- I don't know how the economics on Revlimid Canada work between you and Teva. If I assume it is the same as what you have in U.S. and if I do the math between the guidance and the difference, it turns out that our share at least would be $50 million, $55 million and multiply, to say, about $100 million, $150 million...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

No, no. Just 1 second. Your assumption again is wrong. Again, what I'm trying to say, we don't have a relationship with Teva on Revlimid in Canada. Canada is our own front end. We have a partner, but it is not -- we are leading the front end in this product, okay?

N
Nimish Nagindas Mehta
Research Analyst

I see. Okay. Understood, understood. So you will directly be owning the -- Revlimid and there will be a large part of the profit...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

We are -- we own the product. We are leading the litigation, and we're marketing it ourselves, okay? So that's the big difference. And we have no relationship with Teva in respect to Revlimid in Canada. Our relationship with Teva is only limited to the U.S., okay?

N
Nimish Nagindas Mehta
Research Analyst

Okay. Fair point. Last thing, I just wanted your view on this coronavirus that you mentioned. I mean, is it fair to assume that with the onset of summer, this will anyway go away. So it might be a momentary thing. How should I look at that, I mean, just...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

You're absolutely right. I think, again, I'm going with what's there in public domain. I think this phenomenon of coronavirus affecting the supply chain would go away once the summer comes and that's my understanding as well. But this phenomenon will have an impact on the earnings, if the supply chain problems continue in the near term.

N
Nimish Nagindas Mehta
Research Analyst

But that should be momentary, right, because summer is around the corner?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think it's only momentary. Absolutely, you're absolutely right. So what I said was, there could be an impact in Q4 of this year and maybe in Q1 of next year, if this issue continues, is what I said.

Operator

The next question is from the line of [ Chaturya Aggarwal ] from Klay Securities.

U
Unknown Analyst

This is [ Karthik ] here. I just wanted to ask you, is it fair to assume that for this quarter, wherever is our EBITDA margin, that will be a steady state, assuming that there is no one-off. You have a INR 15 crore provision, if I should add that back to arrive at your recurring EBITDA margin?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think my sense is this, [ Karthik ]. I feel our business is doing well. I think, at steady state, I think we are comfortable to continue what we have. The only concern I have is on the supply chain. If this issue continues longer, then we'll have a problem. If you remove the supply chain issues, I'm comfortable with the way things are.

U
Unknown Analyst

So which is why to assume a supply chain, if it is there in Q4 or even if it is there in...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Q1.

U
Unknown Analyst

Q1 also. But on an as-is basis, assuming that there is a weakness in FC, there is no large increase in the revenue from the U.S. side and your costs, including R&D are there, so if I have to assume a steady state, assuming that, okay, so from Q2 onwards, is it fair to assume that on this top line, the EBITDA margin that we have now, it is...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think it will hold up. I mean, there's a lot of factors, [ Karthik ]. I -- every quarter things change. But as of today, if you ask me, I think things are steady, except for the caveat that I've said, I think I feel comfortable. We can review this on a quarterly basis based on other things. I mean, if I see more -- let's say I see competition on Copaxone, I'm giving -- playing out -- I mean, just taking your thought further. If I see more competition on some of our key products like Copaxone, let's say, Dr. Reddy's get this approved in the next 2, 3 months, then we have to sort of go back again and see what the impact is. If you leave those factors out, yes, I think it's a bit fair to assume that. Okay?

U
Unknown Analyst

And should I -- should we add back the INR 15 crore or a part of it? Or is it...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

No, no, no. Not required. No, no. If I take a prudent -- we've made a provision, I would not want to add that back.

U
Unknown Analyst

Yes. But will it be recurring every quarter?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

No. I said it a few minutes ago. What I said, we have decided after discussion with our auditors that we want to make a INR 15 crore one-time provision, and we want to make a quarterly INR 2 crore provision.

U
Unknown Analyst

INR 2 crore. Right, okay.

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

And we want to consistently make this provision going forward to cover for any business -- unexpected bad debts or charge backs. And it's just for the sake of prudence. Nothing else. That's what we're doing.Next question please.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Kunal Randeria from Antique Stockbroking.

K
Kunal Randeria
Research Analyst

So Rajeev, you have a fairly long part of a pipeline and drug side is also fairly huge. So what are the thoughts of replicating this in other developed markets like maybe Europe and then probably Japan or something in the future?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

We're doing that in a way -- we're doing that in Canada, right? So we're doing that in India. We are intending to do that in Brazil. So that's the idea. Whether we can do this in Europe and Japan, not as of now, Kunal, I think. As of now, I think we have a handful. I think we're focusing on these markets. I think we see a lot of opportunities in these markets. Our core of our strategy is still driven by India, Brazil, Canada and the United States. And these 4 are the major 4 pillars of our business. I think a lot of the strategy in terms of filing, in terms of resources, I think we're spending on these 4 markets. Regarding Japan and Europe, we have looked at it, but I don't think we're spending much on the bandwidth as of now. I think maybe over a period of time, we have to expand, clearly. I think we looked at -- we're looking at Australia, we're looking at Western Europe, we're looking at Japan. But as of now [indiscernible].

K
Kunal Randeria
Research Analyst

Right. Then what's the sort of competition would you be expecting to face? So would it be like India where you launched VILDA, let's say, 2 months before the patient expiry and then there were 50 players? Or will it be more like a slowly sort of seeping in competition?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

It depends on the product, Kunal. I think to answer that question, it's a little difficult to answer. I think each product has its own story, right? It depends on how you file, when to file, was this the technology that you file with, how many guys are competing with. Each product is unique in each market. So you can't really have -- you can't make a blanket statement of what happens in each bucket. What I can make a statement for is that these are the 4 markets that we're focusing on. And this is where our pipeline is, and this is where we think we need to -- we want to spend our resources on.

K
Kunal Randeria
Research Analyst

Right, right. And Rajeev, once this cardiac division -- you had a very good 1Q where you launched a few products. But once the destocking is over, so what could be the steady state number, again, on your launches?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I don't want to answer that question, Kunal, for competitive reasons, I don't want to answer that question. I think...

K
Kunal Randeria
Research Analyst

All right. And just 1 last one. So maybe a couple of years down the line, when some of the oral MS products go off-patent, do you see Copaxone sort of facing volume pressure?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

2 years down the line is something that I don't want to talk about. I think let's take it -- I think we'll take it by quarter-on-quarter I think. As of now, things are well. We'll see how things play out when the orals come. But orals are a few years away from what I understand. And I think let's take it by quarter-by-quarter. I don't want to talk about something that's going to happen 2 years down the line.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Charulata Gaidhani from Dalal & Broacha.

C
Charulata Gaidhani
Analyst

My question pertains to your India launches. By when do you think we will start seeing growth in India? And why is there a degrowth? Is it that too much of competition entering the products after you...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think to answer your question -- I'll answer both your questions. I think the reason we're seeing de-growth in India is because of the hep C portfolio. I said that a few minutes ago. Peak portfolio in hep C was about INR 480 crores annualized. Now our hep C portfolio has dropped to INR 120 crores. So that you see is almost a INR 360 crore drop in our sales that you've seen in the last 2 years. So that has been the reason why our portfolio has de-grown. The second question that you had was on when do we see growth in India. See, growth in India is all driven by our strategy of launches. I mean, we spoke about our agro launch, we spoke about our patent litigation strategy in our portfolio over various drugs. So these are all linked with patent litigation. To say, as we said, how much growth will you get? See, we can get 10% growth or we can get 40% growth. It all depends on the outcomes of some of these cases. So they're completely linked with our -- see, our model itself is a very high-risk, high-return strategy, meaning we will launch these products if we are -- if everything goes well and the patent litigation goes well, we're able to execute things on time, we get very good growth. If things don't happen, then we go through a phase where we continue not to grow. So all I can do in these calls is only tell you that this is the strategy, and this is what we want to do. If you ask me specifically, will a particular event happen? It's hard to say. And I know I'm being a little evasive here, but the fact, because I don't know what the answer to that question is. What I can do is only articulate our strategy. Okay?

C
Charulata Gaidhani
Analyst

Yes. And how much is the CapEx that you have planned?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

So far, I think our CapEx is about INR 258 crores is what we've spent. Our CapEx plan per year is about INR 350 crores, and we are adequately funded. I think the cash flow is strong enough to fund all the CapEx. I think we are comfortable.

Operator

The next question is from the line of the C. Srihari from PKS Securities (sic) [ PCS Securities ].

S
Srihari Chintalapudy
Equity Fundamental Analyst

It's PCS Securities. Firstly, I'm not sure if you've spoken about the guidance for the current fiscal. Obviously, that would have undergone a change. And secondly, you mentioned about using the cash at your disposal, INR 950 odd-crores for one-off opportunities. Could you please elaborate a bit on that?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think what I'm trying to say is the cash gives us a buffer to pursue things which are more high risk. I think that's -- it's more of a psychological boost that it allows you to take these risks where the payouts are longer than -- near term. I think that's one thing I've said. And the other question that the person asked was, do you have any plan for the cash. I said, I don't have a plan for the cash. I think, as of now, we are just keeping it as the way it is. In terms of guidance, I think I already spoke about it. I think we have said -- I've stated all the caveats on that. So I think it's already addressed.

S
Srihari Chintalapudy
Equity Fundamental Analyst

Could you please give [indiscernible] because I think I've not understood?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Okay, sure. I think what we are saying is that our run rate is about INR 500 crores -- INR 510 crores a quarter. I think we are comfortable that we're able to generate about INR 105 crores to INR 120 crores a quarter. And we have not included any upside that could happen from any new launches. And I also said, with the caveat that we won't have any supply chain issues in -- from China. Then I said, if there is a supply chain issue, there is a near-term challenge in Q4 and Q1 of this year. I think that's what I've said.

S
Srihari Chintalapudy
Equity Fundamental Analyst

Okay. Clear. Just one final question. I mean, on the expenditure front, I mean, have you taken up any plans for moderating it?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Expenditure front, I think we -- overall, we have a cost program. So what we have done is we have engaged couple of consultancy companies, particularly Grant Thornton we have engaged to bring down our costs. As you know, we are not having the earnings growth that we had in the past. So we have done some cost rationalization. I think the idea here is that we look at our costs and see whether we can do a better job than what we're doing. At the same time, we are not compromising our R&D focus. To answer your question, are we doing some program? Yes, we are. I think we have had almost INR 60 crores, INR 70 crores worth of savings in the last 1 year since we've implemented this program.

S
Srihari Chintalapudy
Equity Fundamental Analyst

Any specific areas where you're focusing on?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

We have done -- I think we've done wage rationalization, we have done a power renewable energy investment which allowed us to reduce our power cost. We reduced our operational cost by rationalizing our cost structure in terms of expenses. So there are like multiple measures that we have done. So -- and we have changed the way we do some of our commodity procurement by introducing an auction system. I mean, there's a whole slew of measures and we can go on and on. But overall, what we've done is we have done a program, I think, which has brought about savings. And I think we continue to, what you call, pursue this. And I think, that's it.

Operator

The next question is from the line of [ Ashish Rathi ] from Lucky Investments.

U
Unknown Analyst

I just wanted to clarify my understanding of how Revlimid stands through today as well. I mean, we have a settlement day for March 20, 2022. And so that's a definite launch date. If kind of competition enters before that, we're allowed to launch before that. That's the understanding?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

That's absolutely correct, yes. Under certain circumstances, yes, that's correct.

U
Unknown Analyst

Perfect. And the second thing I want to understand is on dasatinib as to -- with this brand, we had launched this drug earlier. I believe it was an invention. The patent expiry is happening in the near-term. Are you ready for a launch now?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Which product is it? I don't catch your product.

U
Unknown Analyst

Dasatinib.

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

We have settled with the innovator. The launch date in India is in April of 2020, I think. So we're launching it in April of -- I think just this is what I remember from memory. I don't remember the exact date. I think I remember 2 things. We have settled with the innovator. The case has been settled. And that the launch date is, I think, April is the patent expiry, whenever the patent expiry is, I think that's when we're launching the product.

U
Unknown Analyst

Should we expect it to be a meaningful product for us? Or do you expect a lot of competition from getting any...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think -- you ask me, I think there'll be a lot of competitors because everybody will launch on expiry. So generally, it's going to -- will it be meaningful, it will be meaningful in terms of having and adding a new product in the portfolio. Will it be meaningful in terms of rupees in -- I don't know. To be honest with you, I'm not very bullish. But it's just one of those things. We launch multiple products. But if you ask me to be bullish on this, it will be difficult.

U
Unknown Analyst

Sure. Can I just ask you one last one, on Vildagliptin, as to how the market size is now post patent expiry? And how -- if you told this already in the call, I'm sorry, I might have missed that.

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

General market, but I avoided answering. I said we're doing well. I don't want to get into details of how well we're doing, but broadly I'll play out what happened in the market. I think from what I understand, the market was about INR 700 crores. And the price erosion has been dramatic, I think, nearly 80% price erosion. I think it was about -- and I'm just -- I'm not remembering the exact prices, but I think it's like a INR 20 to INR 25 a tablet before we went generic, between Novartis and the other authorized generics. Now the prices are like between INR 2.5 to INR 5 or INR 6. It's been almost a 75% to 80% collapse on the market. So essentially your INR 700 crore market collapsed to INR 140 crores. And on that, we have, I believe, considering the fact that there's about 40, 50 competitors, I think we've done extremely well. I think once the IMS data comes out, I think you'll see that we have done reasonably well. The only thing that market is going to -- your sales are going to do better is clearly is with the volume growth because, obviously, the affordability is much better when your product is priced at INR 4, INR 5 as opposed to INR 20 something. So we'll see how that plays out. But I think broadly, that's what has happened with the market. It's been very competitive.

U
Unknown Analyst

All right. Basically, that's what I was asking for the volume growth. And could you see similar volume ramp-up happening for something like a dasatinib? In terms of demand, do you think there is more pent up demand for that product as well? Because you've already launched in the past had an inflation on it.

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I will not compare it like that because Vildagliptin is actually a more larger market because number of patients who have diabetes are fairly large. And so the market for that and the scope for that is much larger. Problem with a product like dasatinib is, it is used after failure of Glivec. And Glivec is usually the first, and only after Glivec. And the number of patients that are there for chronic myeloid leukemia, which is what I think dasatinib is indicated for is not as large. It will never be -- you'll never have 20 lakh people having CML as an example. It will always be a number which it will be in thousands, but never be lakhs. You know what I mean? So I think it's not strictly comparable. And I think problem with cancer is, if we kill the price and there's no -- the size of the market also collapses.

Operator

The next question from the line of Gagan Thareja from Kotak.

G
Gagan Thareja
Vice President

Sir, specifically on Eliquis, you are the only generic supplier in the market right now, if I'm correct?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

That's correct.

G
Gagan Thareja
Vice President

Do you foresee intense competition of the sort that you've seen in Ticagrelor coming through in Eliquis in the coming year?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

Possibly, because all the litigants are fighting the court case right now in the double bench in Delhi High Court, possibly I think. Eventually, you'll see competition. All I can tell you is that we are the first mover and we have established the brand. And we're doing reasonably well, litigating the innovator. And we have to see how it plays out with the other generics. But eventually, we're going to see competition. But I think for the fact that we've been aggressive in the litigation, and we're able to launch early, I think, will stand well for us in the long run.

G
Gagan Thareja
Vice President

Is your status on litigation different from the others? Are the others trying to invalidate the patent, whereas you've got...

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I don't want to get into the legal -- legalities of what our status versus their status is. All I'll say is this. I think we are in the market. They are not in the market.

G
Gagan Thareja
Vice President

Okay. Okay. And of these 5 or 6 new launches that you've done in India, in the domestic sales reporting, do they sit across the onco, non-onco and CnD piece? Or do they sit in one specific line? If you could clarify that?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I'm not able to understand your question. Could you rephrase that question, please, if you don't mind?

G
Gagan Thareja
Vice President

What I'm trying to ask is that all the new launches that we have seen, I know some of them pertain to CnD and some pertain to oncology. So are they -- I mean, you report your sales, these new products, are they reported according to the therapeutic area based potential?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

No. I think we give a general answer. I think when we say domestic sale is this much, we give a whole number by adding them all up together.

G
Gagan Thareja
Vice President

Because I'm just sort of trying to understand what impact it has had on your domestic sales. If you could give some ballpark idea of the contribution of these 5, 6 launches that you've had?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think I answered that question. I said I didn't want to answer that question. That was my answer. I think what I said was, for competitive reasons, I don't want to answer about what we're selling, how much we're selling. All we're doing is a broad number is what we are telling.

R
Rajesh Chebiyam

We've given the total number for each of the segment. For the onco and the CnD, we've given the broad number.

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

So we're not giving a split of the products.Last question, please.

Operator

Sure. We'll take the last question from the line of [ Nitin Agarwal ] from L. F. C. Securities.

U
Unknown Analyst

Rajeev, I've got two. One is a, for next year, you highlighted these 3 main events to watch out for. Outside of these events, how should we see the balance of the business?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think -- see again, I'll indirectly answer that question. I think we -- this is a steady state that we have as of today. We'll make a judgment of a lot of things that -- if there are more generic competitors on some of our key products, then we have to reassess what our base business is. I think I want to answer this question maybe for the next conference call when we do the -- because we'll have more visibility, and we are already, let's say, 5 months into the year. So actually, we'll have some clarity on where we're going. So I would probably not answer that question at this time. I think we'll speak about this when we do our annual numbers, how we see FY '21 to be playing out. And we'll have clarity on the other things as well. So I think it makes sense to take this up later.

U
Unknown Analyst

Okay. And secondly, on the Doxil launch in Europe, I mean, what are time lines? And how do you -- how should one look at that opportunity?

R
Rajeev Nannapaneni
Vice Chairman & CEO

I think it's premature, [ Nitin ]. I think we have some queries that we are answering. So I think we'll take some more time. As of now, I don't have any visibility.

Operator

We'll take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Rajesh for closing comments.

R
Rajesh Chebiyam

Yes. Thank you all for your questions. Again, we will publish the transcripts as soon as they are available. And please feel free to reach out to us specific to these questions that we answered during the call. Thank you all, and have a good day.

Operator

Thank you very much. On behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.