Minda Corporation Ltd
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Earnings Call Transcript

Earnings Call Transcript
2022-Q4

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Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 FY '20 Minda Corporation Limited Conference Call hosted by Elara Securities Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jay Kale from Elara Securities Private Limited. Thank you and over to you, sir.

J
Jay Kale
analyst

Yes. Thank you. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of Elara Capital, I welcome you to the Q4 FY '22 results conference call of Minda Corporation.

Today, from the management, we have Mr. Aakash Minda, Executive Director of Finance and Strategy. We have Mr. Ashok Minda, Chairman and Group CEO; Mr. Neeraj Mahajan, Group Marketing Officer; Mr. Vinod Raheja, Group CFO; Mr. Anshul Saxena, Group Head, Strategy and M&A.

I'd like to hand over the call to Mr. Aakash Minda for his opening remarks. Over to you, Aakash.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Good afternoon, good evening, Jay. Thank you so much to Elara Capital for hosting us our quarterly and yearly presentation.

I would now like to invite Mr. Ashok Minda to give the opening remarks.

A
Ashok Minda
executive

Thank you, Aakash. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Quarter 4 Financial Year '22 Earnings Conference Call of Minda Corporation. I would like to thank you all for joining us on this conference call here today and hope you are staying safe and healthy.

In the fourth quarter of financial year 2022, auto industry delivered a mixed performance. Revival in economic activity helped us -- helped in slight demand pickup for commercial vehicles and passenger vehicle segments. While the 2-wheeler industry continue to post some PAT numbers, the industry as a whole continues to face challenges of semiconductor shortages and global geopolitical tensions. Even under these circumstances, I am pleased to report that Minda Corporation has continued to deliver strong performance.

Our focus is on consistent and sustainable performance. Minda Corporation has achieved the highest-ever quarterly revenues of INR 9,478 million with EBITDA of 11.4% and with INR 1,078 million. For the financial year 2022, we delivered a consolidated revenue of INR 29,759 million with 25% -- 25.7% year-on-year growth. EBITDA for the full year was 9.9% at INR 2,946 million. Profit after tax for the year was INR 1,919 million.

In line with our current performance, Board of Directors has announced a final dividend of 35%, which is 0.07 -- INR 0.70 per equity share. Total dividend for the year is 50%, which is INR 1 per equity share.

Now I would like to update you on the important development of the quarter. The PLI application filed by the company has been approved under the Component Champion Incentive Scheme. We have also successfully completed the transaction of Minda Stoneridge acquisition. And from this quarter, the company will operate as a wholly owned subsidiary under the name of Minda Instrument Limited.

To drive the growth at Minda Corporation, our continued focus is on, a, driving technology from in-house initiatives and global tie-ups; b, operational excellence through cost leadership; c, growing customer and market segment; and generating higher free cash flow and right capital allocation.

Looking ahead, industry growth prospects is expected to improve further with increasing demand for personal mobility and supported by easing supply chain issues. Minda Corporation remain confident in delivering escalating growth while strengthening the core business and capturing the emerging opportunities.

With this, I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. Aakash Minda to discuss our financial and our operational performance of the company during the quarter and financial year 2022.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Thank you, sir. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I now request you to look at the slides which have been uploaded for the quarterly and the annual earnings call.

Referring to Page 3, I would like to state the highlights for quarter 4 and financial year FY '22 performance. Our focus is enhancing the core and deepening capabilities. For the quarter 4, the revenue growth of the quarter continues to outperform the industry performance. We have improved double-digit EBITDA margins for the third straight quarter on sequential basis. Total lifetime order book booked in the quarter 4 has been INR 14,500 million. 8 patents have been during the quarter, and we've been granted PLI application.

For the full year, some highlights. Our FY '22 revenue growth has been 25.8% year-on-year despite challenging macroeconomic scenarios and other shortages. Our EBITDA margin increased by 73 basis points to 9.9% for the year '22. Total lifetime order book in the year was INR 59,300 million. 28 patents have been filed in the year and 4 partnerships have been endorsed in this financial year for technology advancement.

I'd like to now move to the next slide, which is Slide 4, which shows the consistent and sustainable market-beating profitable growth, which is the focus on Minda Corporation. If you see on quarter-on-quarter basis, we have delivered the highest-ever quarterly operating revenue at INR 9,478 million with a growth of 19.4% on year-on-year basis.

On the EBITDA, again, the highest-ever quarterly absolute EBITDA of INR 1,077 million and margin improved by 70 basis points on quarter-on-quarter. Also highest-ever PAT margins from INR 759 million. In revenue, we've grown by 19%. EBITDA, we've increased by 21% and PAT has grown by 39% on a year-on-year basis.

I would now like to move to the next slide, which shows the overall landscape of Minda Corporation. So revenue has been about INR 29,759 million. Our business vertical and key customers are shown on the left where green customers marked the EV customers. This quarter, we have added Ultraviolette and Global Tier 1 as one of the customers for us. We have 32 manufacturing locations and R&D capabilities across various industries.

I would like to share that we are in -- over the last 1 year, we have increased our number of shareholders from 49,200 to 83,653, and the shareholding is on the right side.

I would now move to the next slide, which is the revenue breakup for the financial year. If we look at by geography, this is on year-on-year, India contributes majority to about 84%. Exports of Europe and North America continue to contribute to about 10% and Southeastern Asia where our plants contributed about 5.5%. By end market, our 2-wheeler is about 48%, passenger vehicle is about 17%, commercial vertical is about 18%, and aftermarket is about 15%. By business vertical, Mechatronics and Aftermarket is about 55%, 56%, and Information & Connected System is about 43.3%.

I now move to the next slide, which is on the industry performance. If I look at the financial year '22 growth, the industry had a muted growth of about only 1.2%. And if I look at quarter 4, which is on quarter-on-quarter, then industry degrew by about 16.6%. There were, of course, supply chain issues globally, global macroeconomic issues, subdued sentiments all across India and infrastructure spending and other replacement demand seemed to have also factored in terms of growth. We remain cautiously optimistic about the Indian auto industry due to the low penetration and rising income, but we're also aware of the externalities, which will have impact on the automotive demand and supply.

I now move to the Slide 8, which is on the consolidated performance. Our focus is on continued momentum of growth and outperforming quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year. The company consolidated net revenue for the quarter 4 stood at INR 947 crores at EBITDA 11.4% at INR 107.7 crores.

These numbers are including Minda Instruments Limited. I request you to look at the first column on the left. If I compare this from quarter 3 to quarter 4, the growth was about 28.4% in top line, whereas the industry only grew by 2%. Our EBITDA has grown from INR 78.7 crores to INR 107 crores from 10.7% margin to 11.4% margin. Our PBT has increased from 6.7% to 7.6%. If I compare year-on-year growth, INR 794 crores is now translated into INR 947 crores, which is a growth of 20%. EBITDA margin has grown from 11.2% to 11.4%.

If I look at our numbers without Minda Instruments, then year-on-year, INR 794 crores has gone to INR 800 crores and 89 EBITDA has gone to 88 EBITDA.

If I look at for the full year on the right side, including Minda Instruments Limited, we did about INR 2,975 crores with 9.9% or 10% EBITDA at INR 294 crores and 6.1% PBT margin and PAT margin of 6.4%.

If I compare to the FY '21, then we have a growth of about 25.7% and our EBITDA margin has grown by 73 basis points from 9.2% to 9.9% from INR 217 crore EBITDA to INR 294 crore EBITDA and PAT has increased from 93 to 191. There are some exceptional items, which I will explain.

So our -- in the revenue front, our operations outperformed the industries. New businesses and increase in share of businesses are in existing customers and all our divisions have supported this growth, along with growth in exports and aftermarket. Our EBITDA margin at 11.4% in quarter 4 delivered double digit despite higher commodity and adverse impacts of supply chain issues, but this was supported by sustained productivity and operational efficiency drives.

In quarter 4, PAT includes onetime tax benefits of INR 22 crores on -- based on past corporate guarantee of Minda KTSN, which is now delivered. Based on this performance, the Board of Directors have declared a final dividend of 35% at INR 0.70 per equity share with the payout ratio is 20%.

I now take you to the next slide, which is business vertical performance for the quarter 4. If I speak about the business vertical, Mechatronics and Aftermarket, the year-on-year quarter revenue has grown from INR 445 crores to INR 470 crores and EBITDA margin has grown to 13.4%. From quarter 3 to quarter 4, INR 445 crores revenue is INR 470 and 13% EBITDA has grown to 13.4%.

The revenue stability was supported by strong fundamental increase in various customers and segments. And EBITDA grew favorably due to the recovery of raw material indexation from customers and various initiatives taken for the prominent measures for cost savings internally.

If I look at the Information & Connected Systems, which is primarily wiring harness division. In quarter 3, we did INR 293 crores to 7.2% EBITDA. And this quarter, we have done INR 338 crores with 7.4% EBITDA. The 2-wheeler market degrew but increase in share of businesses and sustained sales and uptick due to commercial vehicle has given us this growth. Our EBITDA margin stood at 7.4% due to favorable product mix and also tight control on fixed costs and neutralized lag between commodity and other cost initiatives.

If I look at full year, our Mechatronics division has grown from INR 1,365 crores to INR 1,687 crores, increase in EBITDA from 11.8% to 12.3%. And the information system has gone from INR 1,000 crores to INR 1,150 crores, increase in EBITDA from 5.6% to 5.9%.

I would now move to the next slide, which is Slide #10. I would like to share this slide as the initiative and the actions that have been taken in the last few quarters and how they have resulted. I would like to share that while the industry has grown from 6% negative to now 1.2%, Minda Corporation revenue has grown 19% and then much higher than the industry in all these years.

If I look at the bottom part of the table, before our loss making -- before exiting our loss-making businesses, we can see variable performance. But on the right side, you can see quarter-on-quarter growth and consistent and sustainable performance, both in top line and in EBITDA numbers going forward. This is a slide just to share confidence on how Minda Corporation has performed after our transformation in the last 2 years.

I now move to the next slide, which is the consolidated leverage position. Our net worth has increased from INR 1,146 crores to INR 1,330 crores. Our gross debt has reduced from INR 483 crores to INR 391 crores. Cash has come down from INR 499 crores to INR 336 crores. You can -- in the last part of the slide, you can see the detail. Our net debt is about INR 55 crores right now and net debt to net worth is 0.04x.

If I speak about ROCE, we focus to move towards 20% to 25% and higher. In last year, we did about 12% ROCE. And this year, annualized because the quarter 1 was forward impacted, we're about 18.4%. Working capital days have come down from 46 to 41 days. Credit rating agencies have reaffirmed our ratings.

We now move to the next slide on our performance of the wholly owned subsidiaries and joint ventures. Minda Instruments Limited, which is a 100% wholly-owned subsidiary. If you see our year-on-year performance, we did INR 389 crores in FY '21 as a turnover, which is now INR 484 crores, a growth; EBITDA of 11.7% in FY '21, and this is 11%. And the debt is -- net debt, it is having a fixed fall, so from INR 69 crores to INR 63 crores.

If I look at Minda VAST, our sole focus has been on order booking and turning around this organization where Minda Corporation holds 50%. If you can see on the right side, the FY '21 was INR 143 crores. We have now that yearly turnover of INR 218 crores. EBITDA was negative last year, and we have now done a 6.9% EBITDA in spite being a COVID year and all the efforts in -- of turning it around.

Minda INFAC, which is the latest joint venture formed for the antenna solutions with Korea, now had order book of INR 131 crores lifetime based on all the 4-wheeler customers of [indiscernible] [ maintenance ].

Spark Minda Green Mobility is a new initiative, which is a wholly owned subsidiary, which we formed last year, which is primarily focusing on design development and manufacturing of the electric vehicle component and systems.

We now move to the next slide, which is on the business performance and the order won. If we see the full year, we have -- orders booked were INR 5,900 crores, out of which INR 2,400 crores have been replacement and INR 3,500 crores have been as -- for the new businesses. If I look at quarter 4 on the extreme right, about INR 1,450 crores worth of orders have been booked for this quarter on a lifetime basis. INR 565 crores are replacement and INR 885 are the new businesses which is -- will be grown. The -- our Mechatronics division, which is the first vertical. So INR 2,070 crores -- INR 2,700 lifetime order book has been booked in this year. And out of which, 70% is primarily 2-wheelers and 3-wheelers and other segments are about 30%.

In quarter 4, we booked INR 424 crores. Information & Connected Systems in the entire year, we booked INR 2,550 crores worth of order book, out of which 53% is coming from 2-wheeler and 3-wheelers and 47% coming from other segments and about INR 900 crores of orders have been booked within this quarter. Export orders won in the entire financial year have been worth INR 635 crores on a lifetime basis. And EV order book stands at INR 952 million -- or INR 952 crores for the entire year.

We now move to the Slide 15, which is sharing on the strategic pillars of the growth for Spark Minda. So as said in the beginning of the year, our focus is on narrowing focus and deepening capabilities and strengthening the pillars of growth, focus on enhancing the core, which is only our core product lines; electric vehicle growth opportunity, which are our product lines, which are EV agnostic; innovation and technology through in-house initiatives and investments as well as global tie-ups in the areas of new product lines as well as existing; and strengthening passenger vehicle offerings in all our product lines that we currently do.

Our outcome is to transform and become complete solutions provided to the OEMs, achieve cost leadership and operational excellence and thought leadership in technology; premiumization and product innovation of all our products; and drive better than industry growth, which is more profitable.

We now move to the next slide, which is enhancing the core. Our focus is on safety and security systems, wiring harness division, die-casting division and instrument cluster and sensors.

In the safety and security systems, we are the only company in India with a developed capability for keyless entry solutions. We have filed more than 23 patents and a preferred supplier to most of our OEMs in India and globally and gaining 100% RFQs which are converted for the keyless engine solutions in the IC and EV platforms.

Wiring harness division, we're setting up the state-of-the-art component division for our localization needs and focusing on export and aftermarket and most important is the raw material indexation and the lag along with the customers has now been with strategic initiatives aligned with the customers as well as with our suppliers.

Die-casting division continues to be our focus for growth and exports area, and we're looking at preferred cost-effective global partners for turbochargers for our customers globally in all these 4 areas of technology, which is in die castings; and developing complete in-house process to supply all the die-casting parts.

In the instrument cluster and sensors, which is now Minda Instruments Limited, now we have full control and access of this business which gives us opportunity to grow in the global markets as well as develop products and technology coming from our technical partners for the -- all the segments in the industry.

Moving to the next slide, which is innovation and technology. Our approach has been setting up our own R&D unit, looking at technology licenses and setting up joint ventures with global partners. In the last year, we have developed path-breaking smart key solutions, setup of the new electronic manufacturing excellence division and also started production of intelligent transportation systems.

The important achievements in the last 12 months from the partnership perspective, we have converted 1 TLA with Ride Vision of Israel for 2-wheeler ADAS; converted our joint venture with INFAC Elecs of Korea for antenna solutions; acquired equity stake of 26% in EVQPOINT in Banga for EV space; and acquired Minda Instruments Limited from the Stoneridge joint venture. Our technical collaboration continues.

Just to focus on the engineering capabilities that we're developing in-house through our technical center, focusing on vehicle architecture, vehicle connection systems, electronics and vehicle access and lightweighting. We have more than 200 patents filed. About 2% is on the R&D spending, and we have now about 500 engineers working across our divisions. The focus is on looking at software, electronic hardware, embedded software and upgrading our testing facilities and mechatronic engineering.

Now to the last few slides, focus on the electric vehicle mobility. So this slide, we've shared before. But on the left, you can see the 2 vision with all our product lines. So all our product lines that Minda Corporation does are EV agnostic. So when the EV can come in, they'll be going through more of a premiumization route, which is through electronification and lightweighting and also premium.

Clusters are going to go from analog to digital, telematics being embedded, casting being lightweighted, wiring harness going from BS-IV to BS-VI to EV; various EV product lines like DC-DC converters, battery chargers and some under development like motor controller and BMS. Our keyless approach, in respect of ICE, will be going in all vehicles.

If you look at on the right side, potential EV kit value from the current business of about 4,000 and 4,500 in our key vehicle is expected to go to about 16,000 to 20,000 in our vehicle potential indicator.

On the next slide, we have just some business wins on the marquee products as well as new products for Minda Corporation. So DC-DC converters, our target customers and customer wins are someone like BMW, TVS, et cetera; battery chargers like Hero Electric, Revolt; keyless entries like Ola, Piaggio, Bajaj, et cetera; wiring harnesses like the Revolt. Our EV customers that are shown in bottom are both 2-wheelers, 4-wheelers and commercial vehicles, even domestic and export.

Our last slide on the value proposition of Minda Corporation. We want to be a high-value, technologically advanced products; global presence with 32 plants; achieve cost leadership in manufacturing and thought leadership position in technology and products; offering advanced technology products and systems solution in lightweighting, active safety, connected, electronification and electrification; technology tie-ups and partnerships with global automotive component companies; well diversified customer base, product portfolio and business segments; low leverage providing significant flexibility for organic and inorganic growth; 4-tier governance structure to excel in corporate governance; and high focus on sustainability and strengthening the framework of ESG.

With this, there are some more slides just on the company's snapshot, which you can refer at your own convenience.

With this, I would like to conclude my presentation and hand over for any questions. Thank you.

J
Jay Kale
analyst

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] We have the first question from the line of Ronak Sarda from Systematix.

R
Ronak Sarda
analyst

Congratulations on a great set of numbers. Aakash, first question -- just a couple of financial clarifications. One, on the net cash position on net debt position, this includes the cash balances from MIN, right, for the year ending FY -- for year ending '22?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Yes. This includes the -- hi, Ronak, first of all, sorry, yes, this includes the cash balance, which is in Minda Instruments Limited as well.

R
Ronak Sarda
analyst

Okay. And the tax write back there, is that a cash item or a noncash item? So there would be INR 22 crores of one-off which you have highlighted in the quarter.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Yes, it's a cash item.

R
Ronak Sarda
analyst

Okay. Perfect. So yes, I mean, I think the overall growth trajectory has come back despite a weak industry. And given our new orders and -- how should we look at next, let's say, FY '23 and FY '24? I mean even assuming industry remains at same level on overall basis, how should we factor in growth for Minda?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Yes. Thank you, Ronak. Again, our endeavor is always to grow higher 10% to 15% than the industry. While the next financial year looks to be -- again, we're cautiously optimistic here because some segments are expected to do well and some may not. But again, as Minda Corporation, we are wanting to grow higher than the industry and looking at various segments, whether it's 2-wheeler, 4-wheeler, commercial vehicle, off-road tractors. Monsoon is hopefully going to do good this year, so we may look at that as well. So our expectation is to be 10% to 15% higher.

When it comes to the EBITDA numbers, with these current challenges and the global tensions that we are seeing, we would like to first sustain these numbers as committed before. So consistency is most important around the 11%, 12% is what we are forecasting.

R
Ronak Sarda
analyst

Okay. Great. And if, I mean, look at the overall order win, how do we see now our -- I mean we had a fairly customer, a diversified customer base. But with this new order win of almost, let's say, 3,500-odd crores in the current year, how does our customer mix look like, how does our end segment mix will look like? Will we go back to any fairly diversified 33%, 35% each segment kind of a mix now? Or how are we looking at the overall mix?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So I'll -- you see, the current order wins there are not significantly going to transform the end customer base. It is going to be primarily 2-wheeler segment. It may come down from about 50% to somewhere 46%, 47%, depending on the market. But our focus is to grow other segments.

I'd request Mr. Mahajan to maybe add some comments on that.

N
Neeraj Mahajan
executive

Thank you very much, Aakash and Ronak. I think most important for us to consider 2 important aspects. We are trying to balance or review our balance between these 2 other segments, which we are looking at significantly. But I can share that apart from the EV segment, our main focus is to strengthen our business order book from our existing customers. Because at this given point of time, we clearly see there is opportunity for us to strengthen order book situation with our customers either through gaining the share of business or introduction of the new products which we have worked -- our SMIT has worked hard in last 3, 4 years' time to strengthen and increase that penetration.

So face value is very, very important for us, which we are trying to strengthen, which is reflecting in INR 35,538 million in order book, especially in the [indiscernible]. I hope this answers you.

R
Ronak Sarda
analyst

Okay. That's really helpful. And finally, on the EV order book, right? So we are now gaining a lot of new component orders here as well, which are thanks to R&D center. So how should we look at the EV orders ramping up? And what was the overall top line in FY '22?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So Ronak, here, again, while the order books are there and both for various segments, domestic and export, it depends when these orders are going to start kicking in. Typically, again, the order book is spread between 5 to 6 years when it comes to electric vehicle mobility customers as of now. Again, more important is the uptake. I can give a fair number, but somewhere about INR 75 crores to INR 80 crores should try and come in this year if the 2-wheeler market picks up well.

N
Neeraj Mahajan
executive

Yes. I think just to add, we possibly can do much more with the EV segment right now, but you know the semiconductor situation of the EV segment is affecting them to not able to produce as much they would like to. So this number can be positive uptick when, if in case, we are able to get more semiconductors in this regard. So healthy INR 18 crores upwards at least would be what we would look at.

R
Ronak Sarda
analyst

Right. Perfect. And just what was the FY '22 EV contribution in FY '22, absolute number?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

EV, you're asking?

R
Ronak Sarda
analyst

Yes.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

It was about INR 20-odd crores.

Operator

We have the next question from the line of Raghu from Emkay Global.

R
Raghunandhan N. L.
analyst

Yes, I just wanted to know whether the company is looking at any inorganic growth opportunity. And if yes, then what are the areas that the company would be looking at, which are the ideas, which are the places?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Yes, Raghu, the -- so again, we have been definitely looking at various opportunities for inorganic. There are 3 avenues. One is, of course, how we can grow our own marquee products and legacy businesses through technology with partnerships or alliances. Second is look at new product lines that we continue to add in our portfolio, but the focus remains on how we can grow our own core areas. And the third is on the M&A front. When it comes to the M&A, we have decided very clear norms internally on what we will look at and where.

So we are very clear that we are not going to look at large operations based companies overseas. We want to stay in our own core areas. We want to stay in our own product lines, and we know this country better with huge opportunities, so we will focus in India. So we -- of course, we keep continuing to get opportunities, but they have to tick box all the norms before we finally decide to take a plunge.

Operator

We have the next question from the line of Abhishek Jain from Dolat Capital.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Sir, in this quarter, wiring harness business has improved slightly. So what is your margin target for FY '23?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So like we have shared, our endeavor is to go from current about mid-single-digit numbers to higher single-digit number in the next few quarters and sustaining those numbers by various initiatives that we are taking. So move towards about a low double-digit number in about 6 to 8 quarters from now. And there are various initiatives that have been taken in that respect.

The first and most important is the localization of various imported connectors that we're looking at and also improving our productivity and manpower-related efficiencies because it's a more manpower-operated product. And third, there are a lot of strategic initiatives being taken with suppliers or others, which will help us reduce our raw material fluctuation and other things.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

So sir, during this quarter, we have seen a significant growth in the SUV segment. So most probably that product mix would be very strong in the wiring harness business. Despite that, we have seen only the margin improvement of 70 bps. In this situation, what could be our assumption for the FY '23, sir, for this wiring harness...

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Sorry, your voice is not clear. I'm sorry, can you repeat the question please?

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Sir, in wiring harness business, we have seen just 70 bps margin improvement despite the strong product mix because this quarter's SUV numbers was very strong. So what assumption we can take for the FY '23 number in terms of the margin improvement?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So yes, if I understand your question correctly, the margins for wiring harness division for next year, right?

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Yes, yes, exactly.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Yes. So as I mentioned, so currently, about 7.5, we would like to increase it in the next 4 or 5 quarters. It may not double digit, but yes, a significant improvement over the next 4 quarters.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Okay. Sir, my next question is related with the die-casting business. So how is the current utilization and what is your CapEx plan for this particular business?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So if I speak about our die-casting business on the quarter, 3 to quarter 4. So quarter 3, we did about INR 128 crores. In quarter 4, we have done about INR 154 crores. If I speak about the full year number for the die-casting, we did about INR 425 crores in the last year. And this year, we've done INR 529 crores, which is a 25% jump. Of course, this division focuses a lot on the exports and the formula market. When it comes to the investment, definitely, it's a CapEx-intensive thing, but it has a high EBITDA growth as well as the exports.

So we are very cautious when we invest because these businesses are backed up by our customer requirements. Typically, our investments in this year for the die-casting is close to around -- about INR 30 crores for the die-casting for the businesses which are going to have SOP in the next few quarters.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

And how much is the current capacity utilization in this business, sir?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So in the current capacity utilization of -- just 1 second, please. So yes, the die-casting facility with the current capacity utilization would be somewhere about 60% to 70%.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Okay. Okay, sir. And sir, one last question is related with the outlook for the ASEAN 2-wheeler locking system business. How is the progress right now?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

For the security division, you mean?

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Yes.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So you're speaking about the ASEAN or you're speaking about the security systems division?

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Sir, security systems division, both in India and ASEAN.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Right. So if I speak about the security systems division in the quarter, we were -- we did about INR 250 crores in the quarter 3. And we've done about the similar numbers in about quarter 3 this year -- quarter 4 this year. If I speak about year-on-year basis, we did about INR 739 crores in the last year with a 23% jump in this year to about INR 908 crores.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

So sir, despite the growth in the 2-wheeler volume, the growth is 23%. Is it because of increase in the realization only?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

No, there are a couple of factors. One is definitely focused on the exports market and the aftermarket increase from this division.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of Noel Vaz from Asian Market Securities. Mr. Noel Vaz, can you hear us?

N
Noel Vaz
analyst

Can you hear me? Hello?

Operator

Yes, we can hear you now.

N
Noel Vaz
analyst

Yes. Sorry about that. Yes. So I just had one query. So right now with the disruption to -- coming out of China in -- for most of 1Q as the -- if company any kind of disruption in terms of spares or certain components which are coming from China where -- also one other thing is that so regarding the increase in regionalization or even, say, the internal sourcing of components, what is the progress has been on that front? That's my only question.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Yes. Thank you, Noel. So definitely, China imports do continue to be a very big threat and concern going forward, which may hamper the entire industry as well as Minda Corporation's performance in the upcoming quarters, if we're working primarily on the electronics and other logistic cost issues and increase in the raw material prices or from China is definitely impacting. And this also impacts Minda Corporation and will be impacting in future if the things continue to work out this way.

So we are definitely working on various initiatives, but there are some things which are outside our control, which will definitely impact in the upcoming quarters, in the quarter 1 and quarter 2 next year.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of Abhishek Jain from Dolat Capital.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Sir, how is the product mix in the wiring harness business in FY '22?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

How is the what, sorry, for wiring harness?

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Product mix in the wiring harness business especially 2-wheelers, EVs and commercial vehicles?

Operator

Mr. Jain, this is the operator with a request to get off the speaker phone as we are not able to hear you very clearly.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Hello?

Operator

Yes, this is better.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Yes. So just I was asking about the product mix in the wiring harness business. I meant to say 2-wheelers, EVs and CVs contributions in FY '22?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Yes. So in the wiring harness, about 50% contributes by 2- and 3-wheelers, 4-wheelers contribute about 10% and commercial vehicles contribute about 30%, 35%.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Okay, sir. And how the mix will change in the coming year? I mean to say that in FY '23, well, we are looking at a strong growth in the commercial vehicle segment.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So of course, if the commercial vehicle segment grow, it is going to give positive impact to Minda Corporation. But again, we have to really wait and watch how each segment really performs in the upcoming quarters.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Okay, sir. And what is the margin difference between the wiring harness business in CVs versus the 2-wheelers?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

I can just say that in the commercial vehicles, it is higher.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

So it will be the higher by the 200, 300 bps?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Sorry?

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

It would be the higher by 200 or 300 bps?

A
Ashok Minda
executive

Sorry. That's a little confidential and we wouldn't be able to share, but yes, it is higher.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Okay. Sir, you have also called into the interior plastic business in the domestic market and you have also given the order books. So how is the outlook for the -- this business and what is the breakeven?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So this business is, again, a very small division right now, but the focus is on the 4-wheeler aspects of this business. In this year, now again, we have a few SOPs coming in from the likes of our 4-wheeler OEMs, largest OEMs as well as the largest SUV manufacturers, even in lightweighting.

So this division is definitely being a small base is going to grow faster. But definitely, it is not a big impact on the Minda Corporation numbers as of now. Currently, it is about a INR 50 crore business for the last financial year.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Okay, sir. My last question is related with the CapEx. So how much CapEx you have done in FY '22 and what is your CapEx plan for FY '23, sir?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So typically, our CapEx is about 4% to 5% in our -- from, let's say, compared to the revenue. Now most of this basically goes into the engineering or technology as well as our regular CapEx and maintenances as well as our brownfield initiatives that we're looking at. If I speak about the last financial year in FY '22, we've done about INR 100 crores of -- for CapEx.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

How much, sir?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

100, 1 double 0.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Okay, sir. Sir, just one bookkeeping question. Can you please provide us the Minda Stoneridge revenue, EBITDA and PAT for FY '22?

A
Ashok Minda
executive

Yes, it is Minda Instruments Limited now. And just to share with you the numbers for Minda Instruments Limited. So if I speak about quarter 4 numbers, the sales was INR 137 crores, EBITDA stood at 18.7%, and EBITDA percentage was about 13.5%, but we had some extraordinary customer recoveries this quarter.

And if I speak about the entire year, for the full year FY '22, we had about INR 485 crores as top line and EBITDA percentage is about 11%.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Okay. And how much revenue you are targeting for the next year? And what would be the growth driver for this business, sir?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So for this business, again, the growth drivers are on the premiumization and the customer segment. If I speak about new products, so the instrument clusters are now moving from analog to digital. So they will definitely be giving premiumization on our product lines, adding products in the sensor portfolio and definitely increasing our penetration to the other segments beyond 2-wheeler and looking at exports also will be the growth drivers for this division.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

And what would be the content per vehicle in instrument cluster, sir?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So here, typically, instrument cluster currently is about 600 to 700. Now going in future, depending on the segment, depending on the customization of the product, it may go to about 2,000 upwards.

Again, we can keep adding many features but the important part is that this product will have more of customization and individualization, styling, designing, electronics going forward. So yes, it will help us increase the content per vehicle.

A
Abhishek Jain
analyst

Sir, instrument cluster is one of the important part of the EVs 2-wheelers. So the content per vehicle will increase significantly in the EV side?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So again, irrespective of EV, all the product lines of the Minda Corporation, including the clusters, whether it is EV or ICE, will go through a premiumization route. Again, we have started getting orders which will soon come into the market. Whether it's an ICE engine or an EV vehicle, they will have these product lines which are upgraded and improved and premiumized clusters and products.

Operator

We have the next question from the line of Shashank Kanodia from ICICI Securities.

S
Shashank Kanodia
analyst

Congratulations for Minda's performance. Sir, my question pertains to the end market share that you have shared in terms of the vehicle category regarding 4-wheeler passenger vehicles EV. So sir, if it was simple mathematics, EV segment sales nearly doubled from INR 260-odd crores to INR 523 this year. So were any significant customer base in this space?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Sorry, which segment are you speaking about? I think there's line issue at my end.

S
Shashank Kanodia
analyst

Passenger vehicle segment, sir.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Passenger vehicles segment. Yes. So again, the passenger vehicle segment, there are new product lines. For example, as I mentioned, the interior plastics, the die-casting exports are primarily for the 4-wheeler customers. Also, our partnerships like the INFAC or the antenna, which will come into play but that's another aspect of it.

Also, in terms of the Minda VAST, the -- all the product lines are focusing on the 4-wheeler vehicle access system solutions. So these are how are we looking like. And again, wiring harnesses and other such connection systems that you're looking at is also for the passenger vehicles now as well.

S
Shashank Kanodia
analyst

Okay, sir. But sir, there were no new customer wins in this space, right? Or were they?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Yes. So the customer base is definitely expanding and growing both domestically and the exports. Again, as Mr. Mahajan mentioned earlier, our endeavor and focus is to increase the share of business in the existing platforms and the products that we are into and then grow with them by delivering them with the new launches and more and more products. That's the endeavor.

S
Shashank Kanodia
analyst

Okay. And sir, similarly, if I do this mathematics on CV space, so you have largely underperformed the category, right? So last year, your CV sales were roughly INR 500-odd crores, and this year, you're at INR 550. Just merely 10% growth while the market has grown 150%. So any specific reason for it?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So the -- in this CV space, definitely, the market is growing now. And our products are now going to see at the end of the light in terms of the customer wins. So you start seeing the results very soon with the higher customer sales happening.

S
Shashank Kanodia
analyst

Okay. And lastly, sir, what will be the company-wide capacity utilization levels and peak turnovers that we can do of different segments?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Sorry, you'll have to repeat the question.

S
Shashank Kanodia
analyst

Sir, what is the company-wide capacity utilization levels for us as of last financial year? And what is the peak turnover that you can do out of our current asset pool?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So every plant and every product has a different capacity utilization, depending on the customers and the segments each plant is selling. If I have to generally speak about, it's currently about 65% to 70% capacity utilization all across. Now it may vary depending on the product or the plant or the segment.

Operator

We have the next question from the line of Mohit Khanna from Banyan Capital.

M
Mohit Khanna
analyst

Congratulations on a good set of numbers here. First of all, just drawing the attention on the last slide of the presentation where we have the free cash flow numbers. And then when we take the net debt numbers, the position for the company has moved from a net cash position to a net debt position. Just what trying exact -- what exactly has worked into the cash and how did we move from net cash to a net debt position? Also because the BSE filing that you guys have done in that the notes to accounts are actually not really visible, there maybe some error in terms of printing or something. So if you could just clarify on that.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Yes. So the cash flow from operations have been about INR 208 crores. The change in working capital has been negative INR 70, and we've done about INR 108 crores of CapEx, as I mentioned earlier. In this year, again, we haven't done investments in these subsidiaries as well as other partnerships of about INR 170 crores, which is including Minda Instruments Limited takeover. Yes. So these are the major reasons where the cash flow has been utilized.

M
Mohit Khanna
analyst

Right. And is there any other plan for the next year on group level to continue consolidating the other subsidiaries, [indiscernible] Furukawa and other subsidiaries and joint ventures? Is it an internal plan to gear up, continue the -- on the same part?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So Furukawa is 25%, and that is a joint venture which we don't expect to consolidate because nearly up the shareholding. There are other partnerships which we will -- we don't intend to consolidate as of now because we want to first grow these businesses along with our partners, and we believe in partnerships. So that is what we would like to do.

Operator

We have the next question from the line of Jay Kale.

J
Jay Kale
analyst

Sir, just one question on your wiring harness division. You mentioned at the start of your commentary that the orders that you've got are the -- a point you mentioned, you mentioned wiring harness is [indiscernible]. Just wanted to understand in the BS-VI to EV transition, how -- what is the company doing to kind of get more orders on the EV side of wiring harness? Because it looks like that in the new start-ups, even the incumbent, you've got orders for many of your other products like marquee solution or DC-DC converters, but somewhere your wiring harness division seems to be lagging to a certain extent.

So anything that you can mention that how -- what the company is doing to kind of spruce up this technology or kind of gain motion in this?

A
Aakash Minda
executive

Yes. Jay, so there are two things, okay. Firstly, wiring harnesses for electric vehicle mobility would be classified into 2, one is high voltage and low voltage. Low voltage still remains the same which are currently going in the existing 2-wheelers or any other customers or product lines. If I speak about high-voltage wiring harness, which is how the technology shift is going to happen when it comes to the high-voltage cables and high-voltage connection systems.

Again, for Minda Corporation, we are developing and have a team in-house working on the various EVS of the complete vehicle architecture, and wiring harness is one part of it. And also, definitely, we are targeting other customers to win businesses from them as well to grow this opportunity. So there are various initiatives that are going in-house for the electric vehicle wiring harness across all segments.

Operator

As we have no further questions, I would now hand it over to the management for closing comments.

A
Aakash Minda
executive

So thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, and once again, for joining the quarter 4 and annual presentation earnings call of Spark Minda and Minda Corporation Limited.

Again, we continue to focus on our consistent performance and sustainable growth. That's our endeavor. And as Mr. Minda mentioned in the beginning, our focus is on focusing on cost leadership and operational excellence; our thought leadership in technology, driving technology from Minda's initiatives and global tie-ups; growing customers and market segments; generating higher free cash flow and very important is right capital allocation.

So that is how we would like to proceed further. And again, thank you very much for joining the call. And if you have any questions, you may reach out to Mr. Anshul Saxena and he can provide you all the details. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. On behalf of Elara Securities Private Limited, that concludes the conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.